NY 168: (GAME OVER) The Mod is Dead, Fire and Ice Edition

[YuniChikako]

/Confirm

[YuniChikako]

I almost voted Slandaar for being so dang impatient, and because I have nothing to do at the moment, but I'll shut up for now.

[YuniChikako]

Wow, stuffs happened since I've gone to sleep and been at school. And, as I predicted, I mysteriously lure people to lynch me, a power even I do not understand.
On a serious note, I was also on a stupid tablet last time I posted and the vote tag wouldn't work anyway, and was bored.
So now, VOTE: Slandaar

[YuniChikako]

Actually, UNVOTE: Slandaar
VOTE: Bulbazak
I have a bad feeling about him. Seems to be a good when talking, a good player, but just the thought of him being inno forms a pit in my stomach. Plus, why in the world is he voting Arc, of all people?

Yuni was kind enough to eliminate the RVS stage this game by scumclaiming their first post. You should oblige and vote them.

Thank you.

@Yunichikawowwow
Quick summary of your reads go.

Get dangit.

Maxous: Well, at the beginning he was just getting into the RVS spirit, gotta choose somebody, but then continued on about how he was serious about Arc. I really see him being scum, though. I have a feeling he's town.

Slandaar: Makes sense he would vote me, and though I can see him just, as you put, Garmr, getting the ball rolling, I still have a bad feeling about him. I'll leave it at that.

Matias: Hasn't done much except vote, not sure what to say about him.

Desparado: Kinda shaky. Feeling he's town, but at the same time... I don't know, I'll have to see.

Aptin: Once again, can't say.

Toomai: I'll might be able to say something once he stops/finishes his dbz marathon and talks more.

Bulbazak: Stated my reasons already.

Mastin: IIIIIII... so far I am not fond of him. Though, is that a soft/hard claim, depending on perspective, that I see? If not, you must be way overconfident or just really good at town-telling.

JKLM: Thinking town, at the moment.

Garmr: Could see him being town, something of a leader, but I could just as easily see him as being misleading scum. Eeeeh, he's probably town, but if he starts being scummy, I'm gonna notice.

Everyone else: Stop eating tacos and play.

Now, I need to go before my friend slaps me for taking so long writing this.

[YuniChikako]

Oh snap, I read the voting list wrong. Sorry Balbazak, you weren't voting arc. Also, this is my only game on this forum, I've played mafia elsewhere plenty, though.

*cough*

Get dangit.

There's a reason I never list my town reads. I can't get what's in my head written down. A good example of this is when I attempt to write a story. Don't expect even half-decent reads from me. Probably.

Yunichikawowwow [7] - Garmr,

Slandaar

,

Desperado

,

Bulbazak

,

Dry-fit

,

Yiley

, JKLM

Bolded in particular are figures of interest, and italicized are minor figure of interest. (Note that doesn't mean I think the bolded are scum. I've just been keeping a much, MUCH closer eye on them than the others.)

Mastin has improved in my eyes. For now.

[YuniChikako]

Toonami

: I'll might be able to say something once he stops/finishes his dbz marathon and talks more.

I presume you just made this up.

Fixed to clear things up a little.

[YuniChikako]

Okay, here goes a catchup.
Holy shit, we have a major playstyle issue here. Anyone voting Yuni for her first post is super opportunistic (alignment being a different story)

There's a reason I never list my town reads. I can't get what's in my head written down. A good example of this is when I attempt to write a story. Don't expect even half-decent reads from me. Probably.

Not to mention I was short on time when writing that, and refusing to list my reads doesn't help me much.

I want Yuni dead so we can lynch Matias after she flips scum. His thought process is so much shallower than Mastin's, and given the game we just finished that is not something I expected to say about Matias.

I can't say I agree with this. Matias's thoughts has some flaws (I personally don't agree with him thinking Gramrr might be scum), but his reads are pretty solid. Also,

By the way, a lot of people are not liking any of my short sentiments during the catchup. Not that its an excuse, but I worked 50 hours so far this week and got about 12 hours of sleep, so I totally accept any information of mine to be wrong (read: who garmr was addressing), so my reads may definitely change once I'm not a zombie

Though he could be trying to be misleading.

[YuniChikako]

Regarding Yuni's #125 & #126 - I really like them.
Despite Yuni being at L-2, under pressure, not coming across as a strong player and having a very realistic threat of being lynched, Yuni's posts have no hint of nerves, panic and (possibly most importantly) appeasement.
Believing Yuni is town naow.

I think it makes her scummier. "No hint of nerves, panic, or appeasement" does not read like the mindset of a weak newbie player at L-2. It reads like a weak newbie getting coached on how to handle their wagon in their QT.

I can see how this would make me look scummier, but freaking out wouldn't help my case either. Impulse votes tend to not last long, so there's no point in me getting worked up about it.

- JKLM: I liked him early because his posts were full of aggression and conviction

How in the world are his posts "full of aggression and conviction"? He's hardly done anything except joke, point out 4th vote on a wagon, jump onto the Yuni Bandwagon Express, and pretty much laying low. Also:

May as well ask a question to mastin, TSO and matias: what is the scummiest post so far?

I really don't see where you're going with this Maxous.

Along the same line, Dry-fit saying that Maxous seems town is kinda laughable, but I don't entirely see him as being scum, and it seems another wagon is coming on. I wouldn't vote him for now, but he's on my fos list.


Another thing I don't like is how Yiley hasn't been saying much, and then defending himself when people question him for it, along with mindlessly hopping onto wagons without giving a reason other than "it's fun". I'm not sure if he's truly scum or just derping, but he also has my fos.

Unvote

VOTE: Maxous

Bulba still isn't off the hook though, and JKLM is next I think.

[YuniChikako]

Yuni & Desp; When did you realise this was multiball? Did you read the rules? Assume based on name? Found out in thread?

I knew this was multi faction since the beginning. What made you think I didn't know?

I like and agree with the players on the Dry-fit wagon. The Yiley wagon is kinda not going anywhere at this point anyway.

Vote: Dry-fit

Hopping from one wagon to the next because the Yiley wagon's fading and you agree with what others are saying? It seems more like you're just going with the flow so it seems you have the same mindset as the most talkative people here. Leaving the conversation to everyone else and going along with their decisions. Up till now I wasn't sure of your alignment, but you have my suspicion now.

[YuniChikako]

If Jklm is scum there's a possibility yuni is his partner.

If he was my partner, I'd bus him like no tomorrow, what with how he's been playing. Will post more tomorrow when I'm not on this dang tablet.

[YuniChikako]

So much for posting the next day.

In the same vein, how can anyone instantly believe that Yuni had scum motivation behind posting her first post?

Because it wasn't a good reason to suspect Slandaar. It's possible for a read like that to come from a townie with a playstyle issue, but it was something that is likely to come from scum. You may have seen things differently, but I've got news for you. Not everyone sees things the same way you do.

Why are you still lingering on this? I was pretty much joking until a bit later. My first post was pretty much me being bored one day and wanting something to happen (I guess I

was

successful).

Not seeing any scenario right now where Yiley is scum.

If anyone can convince me of:

-Maxous town
-Yiley scum

good luck and I will be impressed.

1) 'I will be impressed if you can show me Maxous is town'.
Based on your posting you don't have *that* strong of a scum-read on me to be 'impressed' by it. This comes across as ungenuine exaggeration.
2) Why are you calling Yiley town without spelling out the reasoning for the read when the entire reason you are calling me scum is for doing exactly that on PAGE TWO.

You call Garmr town. No reason attributed.
You call Slandaar town. No reason attributed.
A vote on Arcangel saying that he "took too long to get in here", which is a lame reason to vote someone.
You call Desperado town. No reason.
You say aptil may NOT be by reason of a weak post.
You reaffirm ArcAngel and call it a serious suspicion.
You ask Yuni if she's an alt and say she's not really being scummy but you'd like to know if she has an alt.
You call JKLM town. No reason.

Matias summed it up pretty well.

We need more JKLM votes.

No, we need more Maxous votes. Then JKLM later.

Yep, hes town.

As Bulba said, please explain this.

[YuniChikako]

Responding to prod.
Meant to post the other day, but the site was down...?
Anyway, back to what I meant to post a while ago.

@ Yuni: What is your opinion of Dry-Fit right now?

I went back and reread his posts some more, and what Dry-fit's been saying is... odd.

Looking at newer stuff, #269 he says that he sees Maxous as town, and he doesn't give much reason to believe such. Back at #186, he's saying Yiley is looking so good, and his reasons are weak. Desperado, you, criticize him for it. Then, when Matias, someone at least most of us see as town, says that Yiley seems town, in #269 he changes his mind and agrees, saying one Yiley's posts sounded town to him. I agree with him that TSO didn't really townslip, but I doubt he or mastin or maf, for now. #307, he says Peregrine has been coasting. Sure, he hasn't been posting much, but more than others like Toomai and JKLM. Peregrine has actually been speaking his own mind, so far he seems town to me. I have a feeling Dry's trying to get something started towards him. Finally, he says no one has stated any legit reasons for his being scum, save for Desperado. Many people have been saying stuff against him, and Dry's criticism... isn't criticism. Not really.


He isn't looking good in my eyes, but Maxous isn't either, so I'm going to keep my vote on him for now.

My first post was pretty much me being bored one day and wanting something to happen (I guess I

was

successful).

Why would you want to vote he person who started the game if you wanted something to happen? It is counter intuitive.

Not really. It's moving things along. Again, I didn't

actually

vote you, I jokingly suspected you (until later). The way you talked also irked me a little, reminded me of scum from previous games, but I was pretty much just messing around. Now, though, I'm a little worried with your argument about JKLM.

.Yuni post 293 Kinda meh all it did was bring together over peoples post and painted it as her own opinion and didn't say much new about anything.

I responded to #269 and stated my own opinion in response to 284. Matias had said something that went well with 271, and I was on the tablet and being rushed, so I quoted that, and I was also curious on why Slandaar thought JKLM was town. So I was doing a little responding and reinforcing. You're not going to get that much out of me on Sundays.

Need to catch up on the newer posts, and can't do that right now. I'll have to respond to the newer stuff later.

[YuniChikako]

In response to Slandaar, Toomai didn't seem too bad at the beginning. Until #169,when he said TSO might be town, just because he didn't know this was a multi-faction game. That really isn't reason enough. Next, he joins the Dry wagon, of course, saying he agrees with what people have been saying, doesn't give his own reasons. #280 he continues to defend TSO, saying he's probably ignorant town. That's his only reason, the "slip". Then this:

Garmr and Slandaar combined have convinced me that JKLM is a better vote today than Dry-fit.

And TSO got confused by 403 supposedly, which mirrors the ignorance of things being multiball previously. I'm feeing both together makes him feel a bit scummier.

I saw this coming. Yep, siding with the town, just saying he agrees with what others have been saying, déjà vu, huh? Wasn't sure about Toomai And Dry being a team, but I can definitely see that now.
---

eh, fine

unvote, vote: JKLM

I under-estimated his scumplay.

Another scum jumps on the wagon, ladies and gentleman!
---

@YuniChikako:

Why are you not voting JKLM if he is such scummy-scum that two people are scummy

simply for defending him

?

One, because you're scummy, and I want to lynch you. Two, you can't lynch everybody you want to at the same time, unfortunately. Three, because that post hurt my eyes.
/I was kidding in reason number three for those who need clarification.
---

Also, I ran through my iso looking for coherent scumreads. This is what I came up with:

-Maxous scum. (Fire?)
-Bulbazak scum?
{Slandaar, Desperado, Bulbazak, Dry-Fit, Yiley, PeregrineV}
Figures of interest, Yunichika wagon.

-Aptil scum with Bulbazak, or town.
-Desp null-townish.
-Matias scum.
-Antihero scum.
-Slandaar scum?
-Dry-fit strongly scum.
-Yiley town?

I agree with most of this, but Matias scum? Please enlighten me on what you are thinking.
---

Town:
Garmr
Max
Bulba
Yiley
JKLM
Dry

Desp probably

Mastin meh
AA9 meh

Middler's
OGML
AH
Aptil
PV

Meh scum
Matias

Scum:
TSO
EPM
Yuni
Toomai

Part of this I agree with buuut Maxous town, Dry town, JKLM town, and again, Matias scum? And here my view of you was getting better. Seriosly, explain this to me. I'd also like to know why you think Bulba is town as well.

[YuniChikako]

I agree with most of this, but Matias scum? Please enlighten me on what you are thinking.

Funnily enough, this is one of the only reads I actually HAVE elaborated on. But it literally is a "Matias scum?" right now, in that I'm not so sure of it anymore. Buuuuut, the reason I thought it is because of this--

Also, Garmr is town because Garmr is showing a town mindset, seems to be legitimately scumhunting, and not manipulating. He's not playing a survivalistic game at all, not being conservative, not anything I'd expect of scum-in-multiscum. He's being active, he's being aggressive, he's thinking for himself, taking initiative, being proactive, and giving some actually-valuable insights. True, not impossible to come from scum, but this seems to be his town self.

By the way? Matias is showing the opposite to me. Matias seems to be half-assing his scumhunting, playing a long-term survival game. He's posting, but his posting isn't having much of an impact at all, feeling shallow and hollow overall. His posting has very little aggression, and most of what he's doing is reactive rather than proactive. His insights are similarly "meh", and are not something I'd expect from him if he were town.

Oh, I think I missed that post. I don't know, I like how Matias has been talking, but that's just me.
---

Yuni how much experience have you had with the game? Have you played anywhere besides here?

I've answered this already, but yes, I have played mafia other than here. Mostly over stuff like AIM, IRC, and Skype (using the chat, not a low quality camera or something).
---

@YuniChikako:

Why are you not voting JKLM if he is such scummy-scum that two people are scummy

simply for defending him

?

One, because you're scummy, and I want to lynch you. Two, you can't lynch everybody you want to at the same time, unfortunately. Three, because that post hurt my eyes.

That does'nt really clarify it.

Ey, if I wanna get rid of you before JKLM, then I wanna get rid of you before JKLM.
---

280 isn't a defense, it's a statement of opinion in direct response to an open question. Also 207 explains that while I thought the ignorance was town at the time, should TSO look scummy later, it'll come back to bite him hard. It's already started to happen somewhat given the post of mine you quoted.

Another post I missed, 207. I was off these past couple days. Thank you for pointing it out. Well, what's your opinion of TSO now?

[YuniChikako]

You know what? Nevermind. As much as I'd like to lynch Maxous right now, Dry-fit's almost gone, and since I also see him as scum, I might as well.
I really want to get Maxous next though.

Vote: Dry-fit

[YuniChikako]

Well. No reason given from Aptil to vote Dry-fit, this is certainly interesting. TSO, I'd like to know why you seem to dismiss that hammer. Possible maf partner noted.
Oh my gosh Maxous

was

maf. I feel so happy.

VOTE: Aptil, and he better give me a good reason why he's inno if he wants to change my vote

.

[YuniChikako]

I agree with T S O April isn't neccesarily mafia just for a hammer. We need to go on the attack and not be reflexively defensive.

I guess I can see that. I still don't like it, because this might even be what he wants.
I'll wait until he says something.

Unvote

[YuniChikako]

We need to go on the attack and not be reflexively defensive.

How is voting for a terrible hammer not going "on the attack"?

VOTE: Aptil, and he better give me a good reason why he's inno if he wants to change my vote

I'll wait until he says something.

Unvote

You wait until he says something before you unvote.

Inno until convincingly guilty. Right now, aptil isn't convincingly guilty, unless he's a very very silly maf, or attempting wifom.
---

Yiley is scummy. "Hey guys, don't worry about the hammer, we really need to go on the attack and not be so defensive!!!" /does nothing

I definitely don't think that's scummy. It's a "get your shiz together" post, to keep us all from doing something very silly.

[YuniChikako]

Didn't escape the prod. Am I the only one who couldn't get on here yesterday?

Anyway, I actually like NJAC's drilling to get the details. Now we just need people to actually respond to him.
Desperado seems to be scratching for a reason to vote Yiley. You read him as scummy from only one of his posts. I'm not liking it.

V/LA until the fourth, gonna be doing things this week.

[YuniChikako]

I've decided I'm done with aptil for now.

Vote: Yiley

His Day 2 is much worse than aptil's, and I think this needs to be elaborated better:

It is being reflexively defensive. Instead of looking for good legitimate scumreads, people are being reflexive and jumping on to a wagon with little to no reasoning and bad reasoning if any.
VOTE: toomai

So now explain how that vote of yours is not reflexive and doesn't have little reasoning.

Your poor reasoning is what I'm attacking here

This post actually makes me like Yiley

more

. His voting you is actually a good vote. Yiley was right about not voting Aptil right away because of his weird hammer, it's a terrible idea. You seem unusually persistent on voting Aptil, and refuse to reconsider.
---

Derp. Forgot about this game.

I have no interest in starting a necromancy war when his flip completely suits your agenda. I get you've been lining me up since d1, but here isn't where you'll do it.

Ah, yes, necromancy war. You mean that I asked you yesterday numerous times to explain your vote which you failed to do because you didn't want to debate your vote with me. Then once he flips town you cry foul because it is unfair to force you to explain it now as obviously the reasoning is wrong, even though you had multiple opportunities yesterday to do so which would have prevented the whole situation but because he flipped town I am in the wrong.
VOTE: TSO

Lynch this.

Yeeeeeeeeeah, thinkin' Slandaar's scum from this and TSO's not. TSO's handling of the situation is much better than Slandaar's.

Well, Slandaar has been drilling TSO and making some good points, while TSO's posts are kinda weak. Maybe that's just how he plays, but eh. Slandaar is looking more town to me than TSO.
---

Thoughts on what I said about Toomai?

This posts looks really, really bad. It just seems like a very scummy thing to say.

[YuniChikako]

This posts looks really, really bad. It just seems like a very scummy thing to say.

It's scummy to ask one of my townreads for his thoughts on one of my townreads (that he thinks is scum)?

Ah, I didn't notice that the question was directed at someone in particular. I guess that makes the question a bit less scummy. But it still doesn't look good to me.

Also, what's with your sudden vote on JKLM? You haven't hardly approached the topic of JKLM, but Garmr brings it up again and boom you're there.

[YuniChikako]

Prod dodgr. Back in an bour or two.

[YuniChikako]

JKLM scum getting wagoned by town countering Dryfittown's mislynch makes a lot more sense than Mastin's overcomplicated justification.

things

I never liked the JKLM slot anyway.

Vote: JKLM

Give raisins, because this post and vote furthers my scum read on you.
---

That's incorrect actually. You had already reached your conclusions before you ever did your "reread" or "analysis". Anybody who has been paying attention will notice that your reads have never changed. All you really did was go back to the VCs and come up with ways to justify those reads, which tells me they were fake in the first place. In other words, NJAC is right (and saying what I have been) in that your scumhunting is fake, simply meant to look like the real thing.

The whole point is to find scum hints, and dig. That is exactly what Mastin is doing. He has reads, and he supports and supports them. He might use really annoying smileys way more than he should, and says weird stuff sometimes, but so far, he looks like town doing a good job. It's interesting to me that the only people really bashing his analysis are people who he has scum reads on. It's very, very interesting.

Not sure I agree with him on Peregrine being scum, though. NJAC was town/null to me until his reaction to Mastin. Now he's more scum/null. I quickly looked at one of TSO's games (where he was town), and I guess that's just how he plays. Slandaar does have a point about him though, and, unless I missed something, TSO never gave any reasons about Dry-fit.
---

In other news, Pacman doesn't look scum. However, the opinion on Pacman being scum is coming from people who are looking very much scummy today, so it doesn't really matter.

[YuniChikako]

Give raisins, because this post and vote furthers my scum read on you.

Why is that? Because I went back to a previous scumread that appeared to be gaining steam?

A scum read and vote that you yourself haven't explained. So far it's been, "Oh yeah, they have good points to I'll vote now."
What I'm saying is, give me

your

thinking on JKLM. If he looks so scum to you that you want to vote him, give us

your

reads.

[YuniChikako]

What I'm saying is, give me

your

thinking on JKLM. If he looks so scum to you that you want to vote him, give us

your

reads.

Little original thought or effort, then jumps on the end of the wagon because...something about laziness? And sheeping "this is AtE" from someone who isn't actually on the wagon. I don't like that at all.

Ah, I'm sorry I missed that. I'm sorry, I take back what I said, your vote doesn't make my scum read on you go up.

[YuniChikako]

No prods for me.

[YuniChikako]

Vote: Desparado

Sorry you got a scum role this game.

How did you come to that conclusion ?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 9&sr=posts

A better explanation for your vote would be nice.

[YuniChikako]

Vote: Desparado

Sorry you got a scum role this game.

How did you come to that conclusion ?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 9&sr=posts

A better explanation for your vote would be nice.

Deparado's last post in this game at the time I posted that was 5 days 5 hours prior.
Over the course of that time he made 41 posts in 5 other game threads, and 2 non-game threads.
One of those threads is also in New York.

So either he "forgot" about this game over the course of one day, or he ignored the thread because he's scum and is hoping to not post.

Of course, there are also other reasons, which you may now present as to why the above postings took place elsewhere but not here.

I don't see that to be sufficient enough to vote him. If I were trying to keep up with five other games, and considering this game's movement right now, I would most definitely forget to post here. Then again, that's

me

...you know, the one who forgets about homework that was assigned that very day until I suddenly remember four minutes before that very class starts. Still, with life, mafia, and the internet I wouldn't think about it too much, it probably just slipped his mind.

[YuniChikako]

How does Bulbazak go from making a case on Mastin and move on to voting someone completely different and only 1 person finds it strange ? UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bulbazak .

Something is wrong with the situation yes, but I don't really think it means Bulbazak is scum, because while his YC vote is weirdly-timed isn't not exactly unexplained (due to several previous posts).

First, addressing aptil: That's not a bad place for a vote, but it feels a like you're distancing him a bit. Though I might be thinking about it too much, since the reason you're voting him isn't actually that bad. Eh, I don't know.

Now Toomai: I went through Bulbazak's mentions of me, and I'm pretty sure there wasn't any kind of real explanation. I mean, he's been saying I'm scum, but never

why

.

[YuniChikako]

Hold up, since when was Penguin voted?

Five days left, hm...

VOTE: Toomai

[YuniChikako]

Oh wait, those votes were on JKLM and... I'm smart.

[YuniChikako]

So other than that mastin noise, I thought of something else: She hasn't said anything to me all day and I've been pushing for her lynch. You'd think she'd have responded with something (not just this case, but to my initial vote)

I generally don't bother responding to stuff said about me, but I will answer to anything directed to me. This post I'll take as directed towards me. So yeah, here's my response. Onto other things.
---

This is pretty obviously a distraction to the good wagon on JKLM slot. Slandaar of course is part of the problem but Desperado looks bad too. Bulba is just misguided because of not believing in wagon speed and timing being relevant. Looking at the VCs, Yuni can be determined town without ever reading one of her posts. -_- I'll have to rethink teams. If anybody wants to talk compromises, I'd go for aptil or even Mastin before letting obvious town get lynched

You going to react to anything Penguin's posted or just keep mindlessly pushing the slot?

He isn't the only one who hasn't said anything about Penguin's posts. Why are you singling him out? What can really be said about the posts at this point?

[YuniChikako]

I just realized that the first part of my post could be read differently than I intended. My response isn't "onto other things". Just my acknowledging of what you said was the response. The "onto other things" is the transition to what I was going to say next. My bad.

[YuniChikako]

Yuni, if you're not interested in addressing the scum reads on you, can I get a clear case from you on why Toomai is your lynch choice?

254
426
580
735
-Suddenly voted Yiley for not much reason.
-Pretty sure no reason was given to vote me, either.
-"TSO is probaly town for ignorance", I really don't think that not realizing the game is multiball qualifies as any kind of slip.
-He failed to ever give reasons for dry fit being scummy. He just said, "yeah, what others are saying are pretty legit" without ever giving his reasons.
-When I was questioning Desperado's Yiley vote, Toomai says that sometimes one post is all you need to determine someone's alignment. Just.... what? I highly doubt anyone could think that. It would have to be such a scummy post it would win the Guiness World Record of worst scum play in the history of ever. Whatever post it was that Desperardo was looking at because I definitely do not remember, it certainly would not qualify.
-Votes aptil, says I shouldn't unvote and wait for aptil to say something, then "I'm done with aptil for now".
---

Yuni, we could also use a claim from you.

I don't see how that would help...? At this rate you'll find out when I'm lynched.

[YuniChikako]

Sorry been really sick

but skimming to catch up a bit and I noticed that Yuni does not want to claim? That does not bode well to me.

Yuni, seriously, claim. You aren't helping town if you are withholding something we need to know.

Like it would help me? If I had something super important, I would say it, but I don't. Since you insist, though, VT.

[YuniChikako]

And no, that doesn't stand for "Violent Tyrant" or "Vicious Turtle" or... whatever other creative initialisms you can come up with. VT as in "Vanilla Town".