NY 168: (GAME OVER) The Mod is Dead, Fire and Ice Edition


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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:00 pm

Post by YuniChikako »

Oh snap, I read the voting list wrong. Sorry Balbazak, you weren't voting arc. Also, this is my only game on this forum, I've played mafia elsewhere plenty, though.

*cough*
In post 68, YuniChikako wrote: Get dangit.
There's a reason I never list my town reads. I can't get what's in my head written down. A good example of this is when I attempt to write a story. Don't expect even half-decent reads from me. Probably.
In post 101, mastin2 wrote:
In post 92, ElectricSavages wrote:Yunichikawowwow [7] - Garmr,
Slandaar
,
Desperado
,
Bulbazak
,
Dry-fit
,
Yiley
, JKLM


Bolded in particular are figures of interest, and italicized are minor figure of interest. (Note that doesn't mean I think the bolded are scum. I've just been keeping a much, MUCH closer eye on them than the others.)
Mastin has improved in my eyes. For now.
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:09 pm

Post by YuniChikako »

In post 76, Toomai wrote:
In post 68, YuniChikako wrote:
Toonami
: I'll might be able to say something once he stops/finishes his dbz marathon and talks more.
I presume you just made this up.
Fixed to clear things up a little.
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:22 pm

Post by ElectricSavages »

Votecount 1.5


Yunichikawowwow [7]
- Garmr, Slandaar, Desperado, Bulbazak, Yiley, JKLM, PeregrineV

Bulbazak [3]
- ArcAngel9, mastin 2, Yunichikawowwow

Toomai [2]
- Maxous, Dry-fit,

Yiley [1]
- Toomai

Desperado [1]
- aptil


Not Voting [4]
- T S O, Lawrencelot, evilpacman18, OhGodMyLife, Matias


With 19 alive, it takes
10[/i]
votes to lynch.


Deadline is on the 23rd of December 2013 at 10am GMT ((expired on 2013-12-23 10:00:00))


T S O and Lawrencelot have (expired on 2013-12-04 10:00:00) left to confirm before replacement

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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:25 pm

Post by Garmr »

-facepalms- I didn't get that joke. You explained you pretty much stood against all my questioning then and that slip wasn't a slip. Through I didn't like the way you talked about me
In post 68, YuniChikako wrote:Garmr: Could see him being town, something of a leader, but I could just as easily see him as being misleading scum. Eeeeh, he's probably town, but if he starts being scummy, I'm gonna notice.
But at the time being that isn't enough evidence to label you as scum and the other things you stood up well against.
UNVOTE: Yunichikwowwow

and even through I am suspicious of toonami I will vote Yiley
VOTE: Yiley

He seems like his dodging Bulbs question by not explaining fully or not answering post 81(Didn't anwser fully) post 93 doesn't even mention it. There's other reasons as well but I want to see who's thinking
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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:27 pm

Post by Bulbazak »

In post 128, Garmr wrote: and even through I am suspicious of toonami I will vote Yiley
VOTE: Yiley

He seems like his dodging Bulbs question by not explaining fully or not answering post 81(Didn't anwser fully) post 93 doesn't even mention it. There's other reasons as well but I want to see who's thinking
JKLM did the same thing. Why Yiley specifically?
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:41 pm

Post by Garmr »

Well I was trying to get others to think but another reason is when I denied to go on your wagon. Yiley instanally jumped to the wagon I was on. I didn't like that it was like an attempt to get close to town.
In post 77, Yiley wrote:I like wagons ok? Wagons are fun. I'll probably try to start one soon but for right now I need a place to sit, and I like sitting on wagons.
This post also rings to me he want to be on a scum wagon but his aiming to dodge the bullet from scum on the other team by trying to look like useless town.
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:02 pm

Post by aptil »

In post 114, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 110, aptil wrote:I don't understand the Bulb wagon . 1 vote is random . 1 vote is a sheep vote . 1 vote was a vote by other player to try and start a counter-wagon to their own wagon .
@mastin : Why do you think yuni is innocent ?
The 3-vote Bulb wagon?

Do you understand the Yuni wagon, because it seems you do by inference. If you do, please explain it.
I have already stated that post#68 is weird .
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:38 pm

Post by Matias »

Okay, here goes a catchup.
In post 19, YuniChikako wrote:I almost voted Slandaar for being so dang impatient, and because I have nothing to do at the moment, but I'll shut up for now.
This post is insanely easy to vote for. In reality, it really shows nothing but a flair of playstyle (this could be new town or bad scum play, it says nothing about the alignment). Though Slandaar's start off vote was town in tone, that also doesn't show anything about his alignment.
In post 23, Garmr wrote:oh we have started i'll start with a serious vote. RVS denied :lol:
In post 19, YuniChikako wrote:I almost voted Slandaar for being so dang impatient, and because I have nothing to do at the moment, but I'll shut up for now.

VOTE: Yunichikwowwow

I don't like this response from Yuni. I don't understand the reason why she didn't place the vote down. If it was because of the pregame thing why did she respond to it and why did she show intent to vote.
ehh...
In post 24, Maxous wrote:Garmr's town.
I think Slandaar is too.

vote: ArcAngel9


What took you so long to get in here?
I understand Slandaar, but why Garmr?
In post 38, Maxous wrote:I think desperado is town.
Aptil, maybe not (his post was a bit weak)

I'm serious about being suspect of Arc Angel for taking so long to confirm and start the game btw
Actually, you know what, never mind, you're probably scum because you don't attempt to explain many of these reads



On page 2, a bunch of votes on Yuni happens. Slandaar (who, for some gut reason I find is less likely to be scum), Desperado, Bulb, Dry-fit. I believe scum is within {Desperado, Bulbazak, Dry-fit}.

Not reading anything that mastin has to say until he gets to the point. He's also near impossible to read anyway.
In post 53, Garmr wrote:
In post 45, mastin2 wrote:
In post 4, Maxous wrote:
cool
, confirming
Vote: Maxous
.

Guess who just scumslipped being Ice?

:P
Lol Just got the reason why you refereed to him as ice I'm slow. Don't think that's valid but lol.

@electricsavage you made a spelling mistake it's Yunichikawowwow not YuniChikako.
Sorry, Corrected ~JS
...yuck
In post 54, JKLM wrote:VOTE: Bulba

Based on vote placement.

WHY MATIAS WHY WHY WHY
I love you again because you are town (specifically, you see what I see)
In post 59, JKLM wrote:4th vote on a ten vote required wagon is scummiest spot as it signifies the start of a wagon.
Not really, but in this case I absolutely believe that Yuni's post was extremely votable by EVERYONE and scum could see a golden opportunity (and probably did). So, Bulbazak out of the three above seems most likely (not to mention I find it always super hard to vote Desperado by playstyle alone, and Dry-fit is relatively quiet)
In post 68, YuniChikako wrote:Actually, UNVOTE: Slandaar
VOTE: Bulbazak
I have a bad feeling about him. Seems to be a good when talking, a good player, but just the thought of him being inno forms a pit in my stomach. Plus, why in the world is he voting Arc, of all people?
In post 31, Desperado wrote:Yuni was kind enough to eliminate the RVS stage this game by scumclaiming their first post. You should oblige and vote them.

Thank you.
Garmr wrote:@Yunichikawowwow
Quick summary of your reads go.
Get dangit.

Maxous: Well, at the beginning he was just getting into the RVS spirit, gotta choose somebody, but then continued on about how he was serious about Arc. I really see him being scum, though. I have a feeling he's town.

Slandaar: Makes sense he would vote me, and though I can see him just, as you put, Garmr, getting the ball rolling, I still have a bad feeling about him. I'll leave it at that.

Matias: Hasn't done much except vote, not sure what to say about him.

Desparado: Kinda shaky. Feeling he's town, but at the same time... I don't know, I'll have to see.

Aptin: Once again, can't say.

Toomai: I'll might be able to say something once he stops/finishes his dbz marathon and talks more.

Bulbazak: Stated my reasons already.

Mastin: IIIIIII... so far I am not fond of him. Though, is that a soft/hard claim, depending on perspective, that I see? If not, you must be way overconfident or just really good at town-telling.

JKLM: Thinking town, at the moment.

Garmr: Could see him being town, something of a leader, but I could just as easily see him as being misleading scum. Eeeeh, he's probably town, but if he starts being scummy, I'm gonna notice.

Everyone else: Stop eating tacos and play.

Now, I need to go before my friend slaps me for taking so long writing this.
Holy shit, we have a major playstyle issue here. Anyone voting Yuni for her first post is super opportunistic (alignment being a different story)
In post 74, Garmr wrote:Also I don't like the bulb wagon that much or some of the people on it. Looking at JKLM/Yunichikawowwow
Of course.
In post 75, Yiley wrote:Fine garmr I'll
VOTE: Yunichikawowwow
no....

well at least Toomai is town by responding that way to your post, and you're town (probably?) after your follow up.
In post 79, JKLM wrote:VOTE: yuni

Sorry but you're def scum now with that post containing your crappy reads list and she melds self counterwagoning which is partially my fault for building. Let's lych you tidy shall we?
You still seem town but this is a bad vote

Seriously, a bunch of you guys voting Yuni for playstyle issues, and it's so easy to tell who is town and who is scum doing it. Like, Peregrine's probably town. That early wagon was so bad.
In post 116, Dry-fit wrote:Yuni's response to her wagon looked townish.
Unvote.


About mastin's townslip: I see it, but it's not the kind of thing I put a ton of stock in. Calling a townslip on yourself is always questionable as well.

Maxous seems town to me based on the last game I played with him but not a super strong read.

No one looks particularly scummy at the moment but I can see Toomai as scum.

Vote: Toomai.
You didn't explain the hop off of Yuni that well.
In post 117, mastin2 wrote:Dry-fit just took a triple-hit to his chances of being town.
...AT LEAST a triple-hit, actually. :P

When not pressed for time, I'll explain.
Okay, mastin is town. Read list is formulating very nicely.
In post 123, Garmr wrote:@Maxous
In post 94, Maxous wrote:
unvote, vote: Toomai


Clearly I was sleepy this morning.
Garmr's right, wtf was that comment.
The reason I said look at it in none alignment way was I was trying to get you to think. I didn't want to shove Ideas into your head so what I wanted you to see and figure out for yourself was the effect he wanted from his post. Which was distance.

Since we have two scum team distance is going to play a big part in scum hunting since scum will be legit hunting. The next step I was going to ask you to do was think this was this town trying to distance themselves from potential buddying or scum trying to stop a scum slip.
Holy jesus.
In post 128, Garmr wrote:-facepalms- I didn't get that joke. You explained you pretty much stood against all my questioning then and that slip wasn't a slip. Through I didn't like the way you talked about me
In post 68, YuniChikako wrote:Garmr: Could see him being town, something of a leader, but I could just as easily see him as being misleading scum. Eeeeh, he's probably town, but if he starts being scummy, I'm gonna notice.
But at the time being that isn't enough evidence to label you as scum and the other things you stood up well against.
UNVOTE: Yunichikwowwow

and even through I am suspicious of toonami I will vote Yiley
VOTE: Yiley

He seems like his dodging Bulbs question by not explaining fully or not answering post 81(Didn't anwser fully) post 93 doesn't even mention it. There's other reasons as well but I want to see who's thinking
my god


Okay this is what I have so far

Town as shit:

mastin
Peregrine
JKLM

Scummy as fuck:

Garmr
Maxous
Bulbazak

Probably town but I can't really tell definitively right now:

Yuni
Desperado
Slandaar
aptil
Yiley
Toomai

Probably scum but I'm less sure:

Dry-fit

Like, I just don't really know about you guys, man:

TSO
Lawrencelot
EPM
OhGodMyLife
ArcAngel

This is what I've got so far.

Vote: Garmr


I dare any of you to give me 3 good reasons why this guy is town. Secondary sights on Maxous.
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:59 pm

Post by Bulbazak »

Matias, do you have any reasons for Garmr being scum other than "eh" "ew" and "yuck"?
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:04 pm

Post by Desperado »

In post 119, Matias wrote:In a nutshell:
Yunichikawowwow [8] - Garmr, Slandaar, Desperado, Bulbazak, Dry-fit, Yiley, JKLM, PeregrineV
There is DEFINITELY at least one scum on this wagon, if not multiple.

I am not sure of my thoughts on Yuni's alignment, however, from the little I've scanned of this game.

Unvote
:igmeou:

Really? There's at least one scum among
eight people
? This epiphany wasn't genuine at all.
;)
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:07 pm

Post by Desperado »

In post 133, Bulbazak wrote:Matias, do you have any reasons for Garmr being scum other than "eh" "ew" and "yuck"?
I think he had a "holy jesus" thrown in there too.
;)
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:12 pm

Post by Desperado »

I want Yuni dead so we can lynch Matias after she flips scum. His thought process is so much shallower than Mastin's, and given the game we just finished that is not something I expected to say about Matias.
;)
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:13 pm

Post by Matias »

What, the posts don't demonstrate it itself?
VOTE: Yunichikwowwow

I don't like this response from Yuni. I don't understand the reason why she didn't place the vote down. If it was because of the pregame thing why did she respond to it and why did she show intent to vote.
I was uneasy about this because it was the first response and set the precedent of a really bad wagon.
Lol Just got the reason why you refereed to him as ice I'm slow. Don't think that's valid but lol.
Because he questioned mastin without noting a very obvious joke.
Also I don't like the bulb wagon that much or some of the people on it. Looking at JKLM/Yunichikawowwow
Didn't explain this and it's a blatant defense of you for no reason whatsoever
The reason I said look at it in none alignment way was I was trying to get you to think. I didn't want to shove Ideas into your head so what I wanted you to see and figure out for yourself was the effect he wanted from his post. Which was distance.

Since we have two scum team distance is going to play a big part in scum hunting since scum will be legit hunting. The next step I was going to ask you to do was think this was this town trying to distance themselves from potential buddying or scum trying to stop a scum slip.
This gave me a definite "insider knowledge" feel, Garmr positing that Toomai has distanced himself from Yiley (even though Yiley really hasn't done THAT much wrong) and then trying to get Maxous to believe the same. I sense a great connect between Maxous and Garmr, like Garmr is doing a lot of coaching. It gives me bad feels.
But at the time being that isn't enough evidence to label you as scum and the other things you stood up well against.
UNVOTE: Yunichikwowwow

and even through I am suspicious of toonami I will vote Yiley
VOTE: Yiley

He seems like his dodging Bulbs question by not explaining fully or not answering post 81(Didn't anwser fully) post 93 doesn't even mention it. There's other reasons as well but I want to see who's thinking
And this. Just a lot of that shit about Toomai and he falls on Yiley instead? There is absolutely no indication as to why or how he should vote Yiley over Toomai here.
In post 130, Garmr wrote:Well I was trying to get others to think but another reason is when I denied to go on your wagon. Yiley instanally jumped to the wagon I was on. I didn't like that it was like an attempt to get close to town.
In post 77, Yiley wrote:I like wagons ok? Wagons are fun. I'll probably try to start one soon but for right now I need a place to sit, and I like sitting on wagons.
This post also rings to me he want to be on a scum wagon but his aiming to dodge the bullet from scum on the other team by trying to look like useless town.
Considering he posted this right after, it weakens whatever argument he had against Toomai, if not nullifies it. He's doing a lot of weird shit between the two.
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:14 pm

Post by Matias »

In post 136, Desperado wrote:I want Yuni dead so we can lynch Matias after she flips scum. His thought process is so much shallower than Mastin's, and given the game we just finished that is not something I expected to say about Matias.
Give me time to flesh out my ideas. As I said, it's a catchup.
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:16 pm

Post by Matias »

By the way, since I have you Desperado, do you see my point on Yuni's susceptibility of being attacked based on her playstyle?

I kind of like to white knight these people, a lot of them tend to be town.
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:23 pm

Post by Desperado »

Yes, I do see that, but I also think there's a difference between being attacked and being wagoned, and I don't think Garmr set a bad precedent whatsoever because Yuni's opening post showed legitimate scum intent.
;)
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:24 pm

Post by Matias »

Not really, though. What kind of scum throws herself out in front of everyone like that? Even if you are new, or bad at scum.
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:25 pm

Post by Matias »

I've seen this kind of shit happen multiple times and extremely rarely do they turn out to be scum. It is never that obvious.

I fully believe that it IS important to note that the wagon is scum driven whether or not Yuni turns out town or scum.
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:26 pm

Post by Bulbazak »

In post 137, Matias wrote:
VOTE: Yunichikwowwow

I don't like this response from Yuni. I don't understand the reason why she didn't place the vote down. If it was because of the pregame thing why did she respond to it and why did she show intent to vote.
I was uneasy about this because it was the first response and set the precedent of a really bad wagon.
It was the first response to Yuni's actions. Woop de doo! How does that make it scummy? To be honest, his thoughts about Yuni's post mirror mine. Just because you don't like the wagon doesn't automatically make the person who began pushing it scum.
In post 137, Matias wrote: Because he questioned mastin without noting a very obvious joke.
So he didn't get an obvious joke until later. That's scummy how?
In post 137, Matias wrote:
Also I don't like the bulb wagon that much or some of the people on it. Looking at JKLM/Yunichikawowwow
Didn't explain this and it's a blatant defense of you for no reason whatsoever
He had scum reads on JKLM and Yuni, who were pushing my wagon. Hence he didn't like my wagon. What's so hard to follow?
In post 137, Matias wrote:
The reason I said look at it in none alignment way was I was trying to get you to think. I didn't want to shove Ideas into your head so what I wanted you to see and figure out for yourself was the effect he wanted from his post. Which was distance.

Since we have two scum team distance is going to play a big part in scum hunting since scum will be legit hunting. The next step I was going to ask you to do was think this was this town trying to distance themselves from potential buddying or scum trying to stop a scum slip.
This gave me a definite "insider knowledge" feel
How so?
In post 137, Matias wrote: I sense a great connect between Maxous and Garmr, like Garmr is doing a lot of coaching.
I don't. It feels more like Garmr is trying not to infect Maxous with his ideas and is wanting to hear natural conclusions from him, but I can at least understand how you came to this conclusion.
In post 137, Matias wrote:
But at the time being that isn't enough evidence to label you as scum and the other things you stood up well against.
UNVOTE: Yunichikwowwow

and even through I am suspicious of toonami I will vote Yiley
VOTE: Yiley

He seems like his dodging Bulbs question by not explaining fully or not answering post 81(Didn't anwser fully) post 93 doesn't even mention it. There's other reasons as well but I want to see who's thinking
And this. Just a lot of that shit about Toomai and he falls on Yiley instead? There is absolutely no indication as to why or how he should vote Yiley over Toomai here.
He explains it at the end. Although, to be fair, I did push him on his reasons for voting Yiley.
In post 137, Matias wrote:
In post 130, Garmr wrote:Well I was trying to get others to think but another reason is when I denied to go on your wagon. Yiley instanally jumped to the wagon I was on. I didn't like that it was like an attempt to get close to town.
In post 77, Yiley wrote:I like wagons ok? Wagons are fun. I'll probably try to start one soon but for right now I need a place to sit, and I like sitting on wagons.
This post also rings to me he want to be on a scum wagon but his aiming to dodge the bullet from scum on the other team by trying to look like useless town.
Considering he posted this right after, it weakens whatever argument he had against Toomai, if not nullifies it. He's doing a lot of weird shit between the two.
I asked him about his reasons for voting Yiley. Therefore, this post didn't come out of left field, and I don't think it weakens any of his previous arguments.
Bulbazak is so town that everytime someone votes him Mastin coughs blood.
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:29 pm

Post by Desperado »

I didn't see it as throwing herself out in front of everyone. If anything, the lack of conviction in what she was saying implies to me that she wanted to say something but didn't want to be seen.

PEdit: I agree that there is likely scum on the wagon but again, there were 8 people on it and this are 19 people in this game. Of course a page three L-2 wagon had scum on it. The way you are arbitrarily assigning reads based on it (why is Bulb the most likely?) is a red flag.
;)
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:31 pm

Post by Matias »

It was the first response to Yuni's actions. Woop de doo! How does that make it scummy? To be honest, his thoughts about Yuni's post mirror mine. Just because you don't like the wagon doesn't automatically make the person who began pushing it scum.
It made me uneasy. He isn't scum from that post alone.
So he didn't get an obvious joke until later. That's scummy how?
Because it seemed like a bit of a backtrack. Scum like to ask fake questions (I do this a lot; review my scum games) and his "hey mastin I'm curious why did you say he was ice?" struck me as one.
He had scum reads on JKLM and Yuni, who were pushing my wagon. Hence he didn't like my wagon. What's so hard to follow?
He didn't even mention JKLM before that post though...?
I asked him about his reasons for voting Yiley. Therefore, this post didn't come out of left field, and I don't think it weakens any of his previous arguments.
It's not out of left field but it's really weird considering he tried really hard to influence Maxous over Toomai. I dislike this reasoning because it detracts from any prior suspicion on Toomai and he comes out of this seeming like he's defending him.
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:34 pm

Post by Matias »

PEdit: I agree that there is likely scum on the wagon but again, there were 8 people on it and this are 19 people in this game. Of course a page three L-2 wagon had scum on it. The way you are arbitrarily assigning reads based on it (why is Bulb the most likely?) is a red flag.
Fair enough. You need to understand that I made that post after scanning the thread and noting the wagon. I didn't really read into anything until just about an hour ago.

And Bulb seems most likely because I felt like JKLM saw something in the wagon and was right about the placement this time around. It's easy to hop on when you have validation (this doesn't hold true for most games...this is an old meta thing, but I feel like it does apply here).
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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:56 pm

Post by Bulbazak »

In post 145, Matias wrote: Scum like to ask fake questions (I do this a lot; review my scum games) and his "hey mastin I'm curious why did you say he was ice?" struck me as one.
Except he didn't ask Mastin that. He finally got a joke and commented and laughed about it.
In post 145, Matias wrote: I dislike this reasoning because it detracts from any prior suspicion on Toomai and he comes out of this seeming like he's defending him.
I didn't get that from his post at all.
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:59 pm

Post by Matias »

In post 49, Garmr wrote:
In post 46, mastin2 wrote:
In post 24, Maxous wrote:Garmr's town.
I think Slandaar is too.

vote: ArcAngel9


What took you so long to get in here?
True and (probably) true, but that doesn't mean you are. :P

(In actuality, if Maxous is scum at all [meh], my actual read on him would be
Fire, not Ice
.)
In post 31, Desperado wrote:Yuni was kind enough to eliminate the RVS stage this game by scumclaiming their first post. You should oblige and vote them.
Actually, Yuni claimed mislynch bait in their first post. I realize the two
look
similar, so I can understand the confusion, but I, being Jesus, know her alignment to be town, not scum, and that's the difference between the two. ;)
Curious panda here why would you read him to be fire and not ice?
Actually, you make a good point. He probably didn't even read the post, so I detract this (from my readthrough, I had thought that he commented on his original joke post, but I'm mistaken)

What is it about my hunch do you disagree with? It seems like he went out of his way to completely detract from his argument on Toomai to be able to vote Yiley.
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:05 pm

Post by Matias »

Blech, actually, you're right, my mistake. I thought he was talking about Toomai in that second post, but he's talking about JKLM specifically. I don't know where I got that, I'm tired. Also, I suck at catchups.

Bulb, you didn't answer this:
He didn't even mention JKLM before that post though...?
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