Mini 1531 ~ Mafia Pinnipedum (Game Over!)

[Selkies]

hi guys!

[Selkies]

hi friends

VOTE: walked into a club yes really they are scum

[Selkies]

oh my god i didn't actually realize that what the heck

can we please vote the seal clubber now

[Selkies]

Well, this blew up.

[Selkies]

whom this particular hydra consists of

Why is it that people do this "oh no big bad cabd not bothering to sort you" shit? (Or if you wanna make malakittens feel awesome reply that you are afraid of her not me)

you're not big and you're not bad just that sorting you has a high risk/reward element, so I would be more cautious in sorting you than if i were to try and sort other people

[Selkies]

^^That post was in response to the vote on me.

No but when I voted you and thought about it again Kaze, I feel like you might've been right about DDD still, regardless of your comments toward Club.

*sigh* I have a feeling plenty of this game is gonna be a meta fest and will mostly consist of me misreading people for their actual playstyles.

*cheers*

this could be scum disguising faked reads, but given the fact that DBK hasn't been trying to lead anything, but rather been posting a bunch of waffly stuff, I'm leaning towards town.

[Selkies]

Lady Lambdadelta reminds me a bit like tammy with her anger

[Selkies]

Cabd, what do you think of how self-conscious bo seems?

[Selkies]

Hi kaze

Tell me who I should be looking at

[Selkies]

Hi ffery

What do you think of a truce d1? No suspecting each other, no paranoia, nothing and that the other as if we were masons.

Additionally, what so you think of making an artificial town block consisting of you, us, mala/cadb, and kaze?

was not fery

why woul we townbloc when we haven't even gotten into the game yet

[Selkies]

Hi there.

Bo is a good place to start, it seems.

Aside from that Smudger looks odd to me, and Nati to some extent though I'm not sure why yet. Starting to think my early suspicions of DDD are nothing.

I don't understand the case on bo could you talk to me about it

[Selkies]

hi friends

VOTE: walked into a club yes really they are scum

Oi. You're supposed to live until day four or so; finally get a townread me, and then die to my nightkill. Get with the picture orcinus.

I thought this was stale meta.

Mod meta is a thing. Although I think venrob used the battery the best.

Did you make this account just for this game? Because if you did you're an asshole. A wonderful, hilarious, asshole.

I made it just to antagonize selkies, so yes.

So many troll attempts, so few stunning successes. Also, nobody ever exceeds Syr telling me that pere flipped scum on day 2 of Paradox Prime for trolling.

whtasts fwrong w. being 13

<3

Avoided all possible RVS wagon choices, producing lots of fluff and pretty much zero relevant content. Preventing the kickstart of scumhunting.

I thought his answers to the questions about ideal RVS were pretty interesting. I followed a recent newbie game where he was scum, and IMO his comments about ideal RVS when he's scum matches both his play and his postgame comments in that game.

How is he preventing the kickstart of scumhunting?

Avoided all possible RVS wagon choices

Am I scum for not having a vote, then?

So the RVS change-up is a thing, then.

whom this particular hydra consists of

Why is it that people do this "oh no big bad cabd not bothering to sort you" shit? (Or if you wanna make malakittens feel awesome reply that you are afraid of her not me)

It's both of you, actually. In the games I've played with either of you separately, I've had a correct read zero times. Deal with it.

People would probably be more willing to sort you, Cabd, if fucking with people as both alignments and apathy weren't the key aspects that you're known for. Kthx

He's not looking very apathetic atm.

Checked your ISO in AA. I didn't remember that you were scumreading him during part of day 1, but so you were.

I know it seems unlikely right now, I usually become less and less active in really active games and then I end up feeling the same way. I had to replace out of one of Bork's games because of it, ask Selkies.

borkgame micro. IIRC my townread of you crumbled due to the activity fall-off. :/

the subject of DDD acting abnormally?

I don't see how that makes him scum,

and Cabd/mala defending them even more so

What does the bolded mean?

[Selkies]

If she were pushing for something to talk about

Plum would be talking about it.

But she isn't.

I wanna wagon Plum but I don't think anyone else wants to.

Can you explain your basis for thinking Plum is scum in a little more detail?

Yay
More votes

Oh now I see, I'm suspicious for not wanting to be the first vote on a wagon?

Even though, at this point, absolutely no one seems remotely interested in joining me?

Whatever, I'll try anyway.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Plum

Though I'm sure this is a useless vote change anyway since everyone will be on my ass.

This seems kinda overworked and defensive.

can you restate for me the extent of why you think plum is scum and at which point it changed from an rvs read to a real read?

When DDD had posted, Plum voted DDD. And then after we had talked about DDD, Plum comes in only to comment about something irrelevant with Kaze. That's pretty much all I had, but I felt like it was more than what DDD had done, even if it's not by much.

But now that Plum is coming across more as a "read now, post later" type of player I'm not even sure about that anymore.

I have one completed game with Plum. She was scum. She didn't banter at all in that game that I remember. She seems much more relaxed here.

am I really that bad LLD?

Bo, I was asking you to self-vote~~

but

UNVOTE:

Ah. I was wondering if you'd forgotten where your vote was.

yes

yes I am

and I want nacho to comment and make some reads on this player list and what has happened before someone gets lynched and we die.

because Nacho always die super early for some reason, I hope that this player list off-sets that, but I can't be to sure~~

You're thinking someone's gonna quickhammer before you're back online?

Good stuff an active game, very active, also seems I am in the wrong time zone, seven pages and all I am getting is the "why Bo did you vote for Plum" saga..

my time zone is CET +3/GMT +4

I have to agree with these two posts 164 and 166 ..

I have no clue who half of you are, but apparently you are all fairly well experienced, great. I have though played in a game or two with Bo, DDD and Nachomamma and currently in a game with P_A.

getting back to Bo and Plum. so Bo your vote on Plum is explained in 146 ?

Hi. ffery/Rift Adrift here.

You seem somewhat less opinionated about the early game than I recall from On a Boat.

Hi ffery

What do you think of a truce d1? No suspecting each other, no paranoia, nothing and that the other as if we were masons.

Additionally, what so you think of making an artificial town block consisting of you, us, mala/cadb, and kaze?

O hai Trolling Fairy.

Huh

Well; could of, should of, would of

Chosen mafia.

The chance that we are all town is better Than that game but still not entirely likely. We all have had a fair amount of games with the other and we know moth about each other than we do the others in those game.

The

others in this game

not in the block are arguably strong though they lack the familiarity that would make this block work.

We all also have records of letting our pride/paranoia/w/e he tuck get in the way ogre our acumen hunting and if we take that out of the equation it'll make for a much more cohesive and successful game.

(I also have needs and macho into here to fulfill them, and you got me in this game in the first place)

Do you think that Chosen would have worked out better if we had taken Mastin's suggestion?

What others in this game are you talking about?

Your autofill applet is hilariously awesome.

[Selkies]

I don't see anything bolded

"and Cabd/mala defending them even more so"

[Selkies]

Ah so I have also played with the two heads of the Purple Hydra. Opinionated? Sorry don't get you Purple...

Bo sounds like the Bo I have played with in the past, will have to check the game as I cannot recall what he was. Will do that though in about 12 hours as I have an urgent need to sleep.

I think you're confusing us with Purple.

[Selkies]

Didn't say he did this game.

Why did you bring it up?

[Selkies]

Hi ffery

What do you think of a truce d1? No suspecting each other, no paranoia, nothing and that the other as if we were masons.

Additionally, what so you think of making an artificial town block consisting of you, us, mala/cadb, and kaze?

Does Nacho know about your offer?

[Selkies]

Spite, probably.

You've boosted the gain on your chaotic channel.

[Selkies]

Hi ffery

What do you think of a truce d1? No suspecting each other, no paranoia, nothing and that the other as if we were masons.

Additionally, what so you think of making an artificial town block consisting of you, us, mala/cadb, and kaze?

Does Nacho know about your offer?

Nope

Don't think so. I've been txting/saying him lime a crazy obsessed gf before and after i made the offer abduction head yet to respond

Usually I have a clue what you meant to write.

Orcinus and I will have to discuss this. Truces seem to be a thing.

I like Kaze for town so far. Mala/Cabd I have no clue yet.

[Selkies]

Also, Mara, why didn't you ask all of your proposed townbloc what they think about this?

p-edit - Smudger seems less go-getter than he was in the first game I played with him. Nats looks like he's doing his early-game autopilot, which I associate more with town-nat than scum-nat. LLD I don't have an opinion yet.

[Selkies]

^^That post was in response to the vote on me.

No but when I voted you and thought about it again Kaze, I feel like you might've been right about DDD still, regardless of your comments toward Club.

*sigh* I have a feeling plenty of this game is gonna be a meta fest and will mostly consist of me misreading people for their actual playstyles.

*cheers*

this could be scum disguising faked reads, but given the fact that DBK hasn't been trying to lead anything, but rather been posting a bunch of waffly stuff, I'm leaning towards town.

can u explain the reasoning that leads you from "passive and waffly" -> "leaning town"?

That was orcinus, so he'll have to explain.

The waffling doesn't bother me about Bo. The defensiveness bothers me some. I'm thinking I should make some time to meta him.

[Selkies]

That was quick

Yeah it seems like classic Smudger I think.

Smudger did we play in more than one game? I feel like there was

OH

There was a Newbie game right? It was either the one I replaced JKMatthews (I was town) or I replaced some other person (it was Human Destroyer's game, I was scum).

Anyway, he was town in both of them, I don't notice a significant difference in his play.

Your memory is bad. He was scum in the game where you replaced JKMatthews. I replaced Smudger on day 2 in that game.

[Selkies]

How are reads going, ffery? This might be one of the easier games I've played lately, so I'm expecting you're making good progress on things just as I am.

Reads have been going pretty well!

In other news I don't think Garmr is scum.

Too pushy and confrontational too quickly. I feel like scum in general would try to at least take a further step back first to make sure a wagon won't build on him, but Garmr didn't seem to care.

I value experiential meta over what I can draw from games I didn't play. So far, my games with garmr he's always been town. This is matching his town game pretty well, though I noted as I read to the end that he's trying to apply some stuff we talked about after our last game together.

I wonder when Smudger will figure out what's missing. ffery, care to fill him in? (I know Orc is your partner but Orc sucks too much to pick up on this).

It looks like he's figured out what was missing, with some help.

Doing things is overrated when every time I try to read a thread or something, the site goes down for 10+ hours.

What are you thinking about NachoMara?

Honey, I don't think I'm better, I know.

Also, I bet you would love to get into a point for point, bullets for bullets argument with me so you can try and use logic to save yourself.

It's too bad that Cases are scummy, and I'm not going to indulge you.

Lastly, I don't need your approval to have people take me seriously as an experienced player. I let the results speak for themselves.

so also self centred and arrogant...nice.. its interesting to see how someone of your stature sits in "judgement"of lesser beings. also rather comical in all respects.

So getting back to my original problem with your "style"of play. You are saying that when asked a question you would chose whether or not to answer it based on who is asking it? Or is it the question itself, then content is such that to answer it is beneath you?

you see my problem is when asked a question I think it only fair to answer it, whether directly or not it allows people, such as a mere mortal like myself to get a feel for the type of person you are, or anyone for that matter. To actually come out with some BS response that is only designed to put someone down goes nowhere with me, and actually only causes me toy focus hard on the individual who is being uncooperative.

oh and I would prefer you did not call me "Honey" as I find that condescending. By all means call those you love or admire "Honey" but me, leave me out of that. thanks.

You're putting a lot of effort into this interaction but I can't tell what you think about LLD's alignment.

why should I, my lynch will only help town later down the line, I have played this game badly the only thing I can do know is help where I can before you lynch me. I don't even have anything other than attracting votes to bring to the table help so, I will do what I can now..

How about some reads? You think DBK and PA are the scum on your wagon because of timing?

I really dont get how Nati is coasting D1? I have seen it before, another player, and everyone just seems to think ok we shall let that go. The latest excuse being that the site is down 10+ hours, that applies to us all does it not?


Oh I was asked about not having a vote in place. For those of you who have bothered to read my previous games you will see my stance on that, it has not changed. for those too lazy and who are riding my wagon because its a good place for scum to hide right now, I am generally sparing with my vote and do not place it freely.

So, are you thinking Nati is scum?

You know that moment when you reread and your reads change this is whats happening right now.
UNVOTE: Lady Lamb

Anyway I'm trying to do what Fferylt suggested to me after the space game (instead of looking for scum tells to look at how town can play that way.).

Quick reads update

Lady Lamb

Kaze was pretty much right in saying she is like a kettle. I was scum reading her non participation when that should of been a null but because of that she exploded into power Lamb. Her rush on Smudger seems town. Also looking back her reaction from me pushing her seems town as well. Don't like the way she tried to push me out the conversation through. If I'm a bad townie at least let me try to improve because that. anyway Null-town

Kaze

- He reminds me a bit of the on the boat game. The smart arse attitude, The smug expression and the way he believes his reads are 100 percent right and if he gets a mislynch he will probably go sulk in the corner. Other than his personality flaws he has been hunting the majority of the game and he has been pushing people he believes to be scum -Town

Douche

- sorry I meant Debonair Danny DiPietro I swear . Anyway when I read his post they come off as douchey and robotic like they come off with out feeling. I kinda Don't know what to make of it. The early wagon formed on him seemed meh. But I can't actually seem to point my finger on any reason why he should be town. His latter post seem more opportunistic than others like when you put post 186 and 268 Like he was waiting for the tension to die off him so he could push another wagon. scummy

In post 328, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
Let's start on the fact that we're 14 pages into the game, and you've not made a single vote.


Not interesting at all,

I would've waited this long to set up a Garmr vote i

f he hadn't basically yelled, "hey I'm scum" earlier than I expected.

This is what makes me uneasy as well the way he worded it. So I have a question for you Debby why would you want to set up a person.

kanyeknowsbest

-I have a null read on him his been asking a lot of question but really hasn't been pushing a lynch. I can see from a town perspective that gathering information day one and pressing day 2 and beyond. But also he could just be trying to look like he is trying to do work. This one looks like a time will tell but my gut instinct is telling me his leaning more to the town side

The Purple Plague

- This one took me about ten minutes of reading before I decided were to place her and that is null What made me decide to put her there was her post 204. I have looked for scummy things as well and I couldn't pick anything.

Nati-

-I can understand having trouble getting into this game because I did. But I have to place you as null for now. Would like you to attempt getting in this game or you will drop lower.

Smudge

-He is a interesting one a lot of what he is saying is appearing scummy. I don't like his post it seems to be using insults like asshole and is quite sarcastic in a way to try and discredit pressure on him. But what I really don't like is how he tries to shift the blame to other players like in post 327,350 and 373 I'm tempted to vote you but you might self hammer at L-1 so I'll keep you L-2

Plum

I have her as a null at the moment can't figure out her out. Through she did vote DDD the explantion was a bit meh but it was early game and she was trying to break out of the rvs could of explained it at the time and it was done in a poor manner.

Penguin Alien

one post I did like the entrance but can't get valid enough valid data from just one post null.

Walked into a Club

I had really wanted to see what cabd was on about my meta. I didn't really like the fact he didn't give one meta reason before he left through I did like the compliment about my scum game. Other than that I didn't like his vote on kaze it was meh it made me feel that if was going to use meta reads he would know that Kaze was typical kaze behaviour. Through his doing shit I think is totally wrong I can still see how he see's it from a town view point. So null-town.

Selkie-

I believe she is trying to hunt. Posts 194,197 seem like genuine hunting and post 228 is something I can agree on with her. Other than that very is much to say. She seems to be wanting to get involved but she kinda ignored the event revolving around me and I am kind of interested in their opinion. I want to see if fferylt knows me as well as I think she does.

Does Bo Know-

I am having a hard time reading him because he has posted so much content and I have no experience with him. He's earlier posting was just nullish to me But the latter posting especially when addressing smudge seem town to me. Through he is agreeing with Lady Lamb a lot as in his latter posts I considered if he was trying to buddy lady with his votes then I noticed 224 So I am thinking he is more likely to be town agreeing who share similar opinions with a town read. So town.


Overall verdict my top three preference for a lynch today are
1.Debonair Danny DiPietro
2.Smudge
3.Plum- This one was a tough choice as she is a null read and I was tossing up between her and nati and they are interchangeable.

VOTE: Debonair Danny DiPietro

^^ towntowntown.

[Selkies]

I almost hammered but meh.

I don't want the game day to end yet. :/

[Selkies]

i woke up

[Selkies]

I don't understand the case on bo could you talk to me about it

There's not much of a case right now. Just poke it and see what comes out.

I personally dislike how he keeps taking a conciliating tone in posts like 105 and 172.

And then there's the fact that he claims to dislike pushing scum by himself, yet he's currently the solitary vote on Plum. Before that he was voting with someone else with his other two votes. The vote on Plum just looks all-around odd to me, actually. It reads to me, along with being a placating vote like I stated earlier, as a "look at me, I do stuff on my own!" exclamation. Going against the grain for the sake of it. He even stated he didn't expect anything to come of it.

I feel like scum would not be so openly contradicting but ok I see the dissonance here

[Selkies]

Yep. I changed my vote to appease people. You guys were suspecting me for something really stupid. So I changed my mind and went to the philosophy I usually follow instead of that other reason.

And then I got weak and decided to let out how shitty I think my scumhunting and wagon pushing really is.

The end

This flail is terrible.

[Selkies]

Kaze is definitely town though.

[Selkies]

^^That post was in response to the vote on me.

No but when I voted you and thought about it again Kaze, I feel like you might've been right about DDD still, regardless of your comments toward Club.

*sigh* I have a feeling plenty of this game is gonna be a meta fest and will mostly consist of me misreading people for their actual playstyles.

*cheers*

this could be scum disguising faked reads, but given the fact that DBK hasn't been trying to lead anything, but rather been posting a bunch of waffly stuff, I'm leaning towards town.

can u explain the reasoning that leads you from "passive and waffly" -> "leaning town"?

Sure, hi.

DBK states that he will misread people.

Given the nature of his following posts (mostly of him discrediting his own posts), I find this trajectory believable.

I would not "passive and waffly" townish in any other scenario, but I think it meshes well with the mindset that DBK has been trying to articulate.

[Selkies]

So for instance I would not find the misreading people statement townish if he then proceeded to hard push a wagon or something.

[Selkies]

Done reading game, need to sync up with fery regarding gamr and smudger.

[Selkies]

why am i stil voting cabd[/unvpte[[/uvoe]

[Selkies]

UNVOTE: [/unvpte]

[Selkies]

UNVOTE:

[Selkies]

nacho hasn't scumread me yet

[Selkies]

Nacho. :/

[Selkies]

nacho hasn't scumread me yet

I was hoping to draw you out with this.

[Selkies]

Nacho. :/

I haven't been on site since you asked me to hold your hand. I also don't know what you expected to come from drawing me out other than a snarky response.

I think you're confusing us with each other.

My post had everything to do with where your vote is.

[Selkies]

Yup Bo is pretty town.

How, is it from your experience of their play, as I do not see it.

It's truly bothersome, because usually I'd make some sort of reference to sirens here, but in this particular game I'd want to say Selkie because that's pretty much a siren except part seal, but there is a hydra named selkies so I can't do that.

I'm mad at you, fferyllt.

since Orcinus has been calling DBK town for a while now, you could still reference Selkies.

[Selkies]

Nacho. :/

I haven't been on site since you asked me to hold your hand. I also don't know what you expected to come from drawing me out other than a snarky response.

I think you're confusing us with each other.

My post had everything to do with where your vote is.

You can talk to me about it, then.
Or talk in general. I'm making big things happen and I wanna make them happen with you!

Are you voting PA because it's a happening wagon?

[Selkies]

No. What was wrong with my sludge push?

From what I've seen and meta'd he always looks pretty scummy in the early days of a game as town. This time I did at one point wonder if this was the real deal because there was no stance or conviction behind his snark. But then he started giving off town notes in other ways.

I couldn't tell if you'd been around to see that or not, but you going after lynchbait early always worries me a little.

[Selkies]

Why are you voting PA?

[Selkies]

I'm trying to figure out if your push is awesome.

I'm not looking for advantage.

[Selkies]

Why did you nix the townbloc proposal?

[Selkies]

Why did you nix the townbloc proposal?

I think artificial town blocks are dumb and useless.

I agree, though I do wonder if the Chosen micro would have worked out any differently.

It wasn't obvious to me at first that Mara's townbloc was artificial. Mastin chose the experienced, "strong" players for his artificial bloc.

[Selkies]

Smudger, my scum read on you remains partially due to the self-consciousness I'm seeing in your early posts, and it doesn't abate later on. There's a lot of AtE in the whole 'I played badly, I deserve this lynch for dumb play' spiel, and I don't trust that either.

kayneknowsbest, I asked about your interest in the DBK wagon because you wanted to know what happened to it. Wanted to know if that was you wanting the wagon to grow again or just wondering why it had disbanded.

Basically reasons for scumreading Smudger are self-consciousness and AtE, which is the type of reasoning that just hurts my insides. It also doesn't hurt that the scummiest people on the Smudger wagon were Kaze and penguin.

This one resonates.

[Selkies]

Push doesn't suck.

[Selkies]

Needs synch and soak time. Both major wagons have been pretty hasty.

[Selkies]

Who are your scumreads?

This is probably going to be a PoE game for me. :/

I do like your PA case. Will put our vote there if Orcinus agrees.

What are your thoughts about Kanye?

So we have two imposing wagons one built up slow and incredibly hard to lynch, while the one fast but diffused just as fast as it built. This is interesting how the two contrast.

After taking a second look my town reads are pretty much split onto both wagons while my scum reads are focused on Penguin alien.

I'm going to retract my statement about PA being the preferred lynch because even through 543.

Also

VOTE: Smudge

that's l-1

This is what I have a problem with.

Peng wasn't a slow wagon. It built up incredibly fast.

I thought he was saying the Smudger wagon was slow and hard to lynch?

[Selkies]

I guess I should get around to reading Garmr's scum game. I feel like he's been easy to spot as town in our prior games. He's changed things up in ways I think are pretty minor this game, but I kinda understand the motivations for that after our mini normal game.

[Selkies]

Was he scum in your prior game?

[Selkies]

Fery

whats your current read on DDD?

maybe-town. I read one of his newbie games a couple weeks ago where he was scum. He was a serious lurksack in the game and talked about how lurking is one of his tells as scum (and that it works for him as scum) in the postgame. Being aware of that, and in fact using it intentionally as a scum tactic, means it's something he can modify in a player list where it won't work.

I think this is such a player list. So, his activity doesn't weigh as heavily as it could. But he's playing a pretty active game. I didn't like his garmr push. The PA vote looks better to me.

[Selkies]

I asked fery to catch me up in this game. Sorry for not paying too much attention.

I think at this point in time I agree with fery about Smudger being more than likely town. His wagon is driven on his snark to LLD (I think?) which in our experiences actually lean town more often than it leans scum.

Fery tihnks that the early reaction was pretty bad but given how the wagon is stagnating at L-1 he's had a much more towny vibe. I...agree with that, but would like to add that when wagons stagnate at L-1 it's much easier than when the wagon is actually building (for the scum player that is)

im ok with this vote

VOTE: penguin

[Selkies]

I don't like the penguin wagon. Penguin tends to be the kind of player that gets wagoned easily for one or two posts based upon the way she approaches things and that's what this feels like. The choice between Smudger and Penguin is a no brainer.

I really don't like orcffery's vote there. At all. It's very shocking to see her scumreading penguin when she knows what actual scumpeng looks like.

I also dislike the fact that my absence means I never gave garmr the meta case he wanted and yet past the initial dig at me there was no followup at all about it. Seems he was content to take a potshot and leave it at that.

She's not easy for me to read despite playing that months-long game with scum-PA.

What part of Nacho's case do you disagree with?

Am I an easier target? You're attacking me/orcinus for the vote when Nacho is actually pushing her wagon. He and Mara don't know her scum game? After ny164?

[Selkies]

You have PA as in your strongest townpile?

Wow.

plz explain.

[Selkies]

The only reason it wouldn't come from townmorph would be because you convince me that PA is town.

You're handwaving, "the part where he says Penguin is scum". WHAT makes her town?

[Selkies]

I hate when you give me that unspecified towntell crap. Especially when you haven't begun to make yourself town to me.

Why are you leaning scum on Garmr?

[Selkies]

Idk about fery but cabd seems pretty weird right now

And it's not like me where I don't know how to read fery so sometimes I flail around a bit and tries to get her to react

fery are you on gchat

[Selkies]

Anyone object to hammer? I want to lynch by page 30.

I want to talk to PA for a bit.

[Selkies]

I'm also interested in the part where fferyllt asserts that she and Nacho know my scum game after NY 164 right after saying that I'm not easy to read despite that very same months-long game. The inconsistency doesn't follow.

I'm not sure if this is an intentional misrepresentation or a misinterpretation.

I did say that I have difficulty reading you. I have some thoughts about what distinguishes your scum play from your town play but they are theories under refinement. And I am well aware that I carry around a ton of paranoia about you, and I find that I question myself a lot about whether something you do that alarms me is actually scummy. At one time, I thought I was pretty good at reading you because I was good at reading Ghostly Penguin. But, it's not you I read in that hydra. It's Ghostlin.

External points of confirmation help with sorting paranoia from reality. I wasn't sure what to make of your wagon before Nacho posted his quotestripe case.

What I actually asked Cabd was if he was asserting that Nacho and Mara can't read you after NY 164. Not me.

[Selkies]

I don't like the penguin wagon. Penguin tends to be the kind of player that gets wagoned easily for one or two posts based upon the way she approaches things and that's what this feels like. The choice between Smudger and Penguin is a no brainer.

I really don't like orcffery's vote there. At all. It's very shocking to see her scumreading penguin when she knows what actual scumpeng looks like.

I also dislike the fact that my absence means I never gave garmr the meta case he wanted and yet past the initial dig at me there was no followup at all about it. Seems he was content to take a potshot and leave it at that.

She's not easy for me to read despite playing that months-long game with scum-PA.

What part of Nacho's case do you disagree with?

Am I an easier target? You're attacking me/orcinus for the vote when Nacho is actually pushing her wagon. He and Mara don't know her scum game? After ny164?

OK, here's where I was mixing things up. But I'm not following how you figure Nacho and Mara know my scum game but you don't when you all basically saw the same things, and you were probably pushing my lynch more than Mara there.

It was half gut and half PoE in that game. And the gut half was more about my town read of Nacho than my scum read of you.

[Selkies]

Who are your scumreads?

This is probably going to be a PoE game for me. :/

I do like your PA case. Will put our vote there if Orcinus agrees.

What are your thoughts about Kanye?

So we have two imposing wagons one built up slow and incredibly hard to lynch, while the one fast but diffused just as fast as it built. This is interesting how the two contrast.

After taking a second look my town reads are pretty much split onto both wagons while my scum reads are focused on Penguin alien.

I'm going to retract my statement about PA being the preferred lynch because even through 543.

Also

VOTE: Smudge

that's l-1

This is what I have a problem with.

Peng wasn't a slow wagon. It built up incredibly fast.

I thought he was saying the Smudger wagon was slow and hard to lynch?

If its a Poe game, scum are people who don't make their way into your townreads.

Kanye is still town. Why?

Second game I've played with Kanye. He doesn't seem nearly as assertive in this game as he did in Paradox. Maybe that's because there isn't a crazy mechanic to to figure out how to take advantage of.

[Selkies]

Purple if you and Selkies touch base anymore you will need to move in...

Fun fact: I am moved in with Selkies. Fferyllt is my mother and orcinus the original is my father. We're a he'll of a mafia family, right?

Hits my head against the wall. I have a sick sick mind.

Anyway change of subject since you are family, how well do you think you can read fferyllt?

Pretty well, actually.
I usually get an incredibly strong townread on her early and am panicking currently because I don't have that incredibly strong townread on her now.

I'm here.

[Selkies]

Selkies seems like a pretty solid vote, although DDD votes seem pretty great as well.

Vote: Selkies

Your reads day 1 weren't so good.

Why are the DDD votes pretty great?

[Selkies]

Selkies seems like a pretty solid vote, although DDD votes seem pretty great as well.

Vote: Selkies

Your reads day 1 weren't so good.

Why are the DDD votes pretty great?

yeah they sucked balls, thanks for reminding me.
DDD votes are pretty great because townreads elsewhere, probably. They could also be great because the only reason he was good yesterday was penguin vote and that's not a good thing anymore

My sample set is pretty small, but from what I've seen of DDD's play in other games this doesn't look like his scum game.

[Selkies]

Level of activity.

Compared to this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32444

He also talked about his scum game during the postgame discussion there. I followed this game in real tie as it was being played because it was on my "maybe replace into that one" list.

[Selkies]

So PoE is your whole reason for thinking he's scum?

[Selkies]

I'm pissed at Kanye for ending day 1 before we were done sorting each other. Other than that hammer, which is actually a pretty strong stance, I feel like he's way less take-charge than he was in the other game he and I played.

The level of irritability in LLD's posts makes her difficult for me to read. I was leaning town on day 1.

Yeah you may be right about Nati.

[Selkies]

I'm still trying to sort what I think about your day 1, though. Especially your stance on Smudger and Kaze. I wanted to talk to you about Kaze before the day ended. :/

[Selkies]

I dunno if I agree about us and bad day 1s when we share alignment. Probably less common, but it happens.

[Selkies]

nacho this game is making me crazy.

I have no fucking idea if you're town or not. plz do something townish so I can stop worrying about you.

[Selkies]

I feel like I'm never gonna get on this game's level, tbh.

Okay so I'm thinking either A.) the wagon on DDD is scum-driven with Kanye and Garmr as scum and no other townies wanting to join, or B.) the wagon on DDD is town-driven which is why there are so few people on it.

I am starting to suspect Garmr a little. I have no idea how to read Kanye.

Hmm

UNVOTE:

I think this playerlist is pretty over-whelming in terms of Player experience, reputation, and all that but given that it's a little strange that I feel underwhelmed with the content.

it'll feel exceptionally strange when I feel like I have to get behind the wheel of this hydra and not follow nacho's every step.

speaking of, I had hoped I could rely on Nacho figuring out Kanye and LLD for me while I worked with the people I'm a little more familiar with. We could ride the "lets try and figure kanye out, no matter how futile train" together.

what are your thoughts on him so far?

at this point in time, it's a little difficult to figure out if DDD's wagon is town or scum driven but I'm more interested in the intent of those on the wagon especially since it seem's like Kanyesheep more than anything.

Why are you suspecting Garmr? Where I'm standing, he hasn't done anything different than you have so that's kinda.... pingy

This post kinda helps with my uneasiness about Nacho. I can't believe I'm saying that.

[Selkies]

hi

im here

and this goddamned site will stay the fuck up

[Selkies]

Hey Nati

It's Day 2, now you're supposed to play right?

Also VOTE: Selkies

sorry

i've been caught up in another game and sort of relied on fery to carry my weight cuz I'm fat and lazy

im here now tho so its ok. i think i just will auto-login to this acct from now on which will increase my posting dramatically

[Selkies]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DDD

I'm cool with either

why didn't you come back to us

[Selkies]

Well, yesterday was shit.

i like this sentiment

[Selkies]

I'm still town reading ffery She feels similar to all my games with her recently where she was town through I never really played against scum ffery I don't think this is it. I just need someone to piss her off to be sure.

Debby your good at pissing people off up for a job?

lol.

not going into garmr's alignment this is not where you should be thinking

[Selkies]

ok

caught up and i have an iffy grasp of the game

is anyone here

[Selkies]

that pic creeps me out a little shivers.

I remember this gif!

You replaced what wound up being my strongest day 1 townread. This makes me happy.

[Selkies]

danny, dbk, wildcard (you? selkso? garmio? gotta be 1)

I'm pretty prepared to lynch Selkies and I don't think DBK-slot is scum, but if you believe in your heart of hearts that LLD is town, I can shelve that paranoia away for a later day.

You've made no effort to sort me. I've had the gain turned way up listening for echoes of Marketplace day 1.

What changed your mind about Kanye?

[Selkies]

Day 1 ended prematurely I was pretty happy with a good handful of townreads but hadn't PoE'd it down far enough. Had hoped we'd growl at each other for a while, and move the vote someplace besides Smudger.

[Selkies]

I was thinking you were town, then, though. Avoiding confrontation because it's "brutal" doesn't sound like you.

[Selkies]

Does it sound like me as scum?

It has a powerlynch feel to it. But the tempo is off for a powerlynch.

Because I have absolutely no problem switching gears if you want me to.

I want you to do what it takes to get an accurate read. I'll do the same.

[Selkies]

I remember this gif!

You replaced what wound up being my strongest day 1 townread. This makes me happy.

Why was DBK your numbah 1 townread?

172, 198 both came off really town to me in a "yeah I suck at this game" way, but he kept scumhunting. I disagreed with his Smudger vote and the reasons that started around 358, but I thought they were internally consistent in a tone-deaf sort of way that he'd also shown earlier with his Plum suspicions. There was a sheeping feel to his reversal on Smudger around 498, but he'd already kind of latched on to NachoMara and he'd also said pretty early on that he didn't trust his own scumhunting skills and felt he did better listening to other's arguments. If he's scum, that was a masterful set up and a masterful emulation of confused but giving it his best shot town. I don't get why he'd replace out with a feeling lost sort of reason after accomplishing that.

Who ya wanna lynch and why? If I were going to go back and selectively read the first 35 pages, which parts do you consider the most important for me to look at?

The players I'm somewhat familiar with look town this time out. I was scumreading PA but that's evidently me being butthurt over NY164. I was suspicious of her in the Space Mini Normal on day 2, and that turned out to be wrong. Ironically, She was a mason in that game, and her mason partner died on night 1. I was hoping to pick Nacho's brains some more about LLD, Kanye and DDD. I posted earlier why I think DDD's play this game looks town, but it's pretty thin meta soup. I have

that game

for experiential meta, and a newbie game where he was scum that I read in real time.

Day 1 ended prematurely I was pretty happy with a good handful of townreads but hadn't PoE'd it down far enough. Had hoped we'd growl at each other for a while, and move the vote someplace besides Smudger.

Who were the townreads? If you hoped to have a fight with Nacho, why didn't you? Did you think Smudger was a bad lynch?

At first I thought Smudger was posting a lot of insults without giving any indication that he was interacting with scumreads, or even people he had questions about.

When he was first run up, his reaction looked pretty damn town, though. I pushed Nacho on that read and I think he agreed with me, at least for a while.


We didn't get things sorted out day 1 because (IMO) premature hammer. Nacho indicated he wanted more time to sort me before day 1 ended here. I replied here. Kanye hammered before we had that convo here.


Town reads:

PA - the middle of the game-night communications channeled by sixty were convincing enough for me to do a major rethink.

Garmr - meta read. This game he's not playing exactly like he did in our two earlier games, but there's a meta-trajectory to what has changed, and I think it's a town-game evolution, not a scum game. I posted some scathing feedback along with an ISO analysis in the space game while I was waiting to be hammered.

DBK/You - explained above. Don't break my heart.

Walked into a Club (Cabd/Mala) - minor concerns at times on day 1 but cabd tried to peel me off the PA wagon and I don't see why he'd care as scum. If anything it seems like the wagon on the stronger player going through would have benefited scum more at least in the short term. (yeah, yeah, terrifying scum game. I'm working pretty hard at not going into paranoid tailspins around him).

Purple Plague should be a stronger read probably, but nacho. Recent history says I can't read him for shit but I'm always optimistic that \I'll get him right next time. Until it's next time. In our last few games I think we've both been very suspicious of each other at first when town. The one that gets there first maybe gets a townread from the one who lags a little.

oh gawd a wall.

[Selkies]

I feel the significant thing you did was that wall was bring up your small bits of meta awareness of DDD, and the accuracy of his assessment of an ideal RVS.

197 shows a small step towards sorting Bo, but the "your defensiveness is bothering me some" was a strange thing to pick up on; it's not necessarily something I think you wouldn't pick up on, but it wasn't exactly something that was worth the comment or the meta dive, even.

What meta dive? At that point in the game, his defensive reactions were what stood out to me. I think it was a little later that I started to see the self-deprecation. I'm not sure that's the right word for it, but he switched from reacting defensively to others' comments to sort of agreeing with them and explaining how he tried to compensate for weaknesses in his game.

I asked you how reads we're going in 331 because I noticed nothing seemed to be developing on your end, so your "reads are going well!" response didn't seem consistent with what you had dropped in thread so far. Your major engagement in this wall is with Smudger, who was the flavor of the day at that point; I appreciate that you were trying to gauge my pushes, but normally you're making pushes of your own that I have the opportunity to gauge elsewhere and I didn't feel that was happening earlier in the game.

At that point I had some middling town reads and some null reads and no idea what orcinus was thinking beyond what he'd put in this thread.

I liked you warning me off the Smudger wagon early, it was nice, but I already started to move off and the warning was pretty quiet. And as far as a day in a whole goes, I didn't really feel you tried to interact with me much or sort me like you usually do; you had no clear read on me by the end of day 1 (and I not such a clear read on you at the end of day 1), and I was freaking out about it a significant degree more than you were. And you say that I haven't made a significant effort to sort you so far, while those small signs that I expect you to pick up on are all over my ISO (ffery, can you tell me what Smudger is missing? What do you think of my penguin push? Don't fucking hammer until I talk with my parents.).

I felt the same about you. I chalked it up to holidays and too many games with high demands. I saw the invitations to engage, I tried to meet them. There are similar invitations in my ISO.

I saw the Garmr townread, but it was instantly formed and never talked about and never touched again. DBK read was decent because he was seriously town, but you didn't even touch on that all that much. DDD has fallen into obscurity again and you're still calling him town for early activity, no clue what your read on Cabd is composed of, Plum and Kaze reads were immediate and not really explained, no read on Kanye/LLD, no read on us and a tiny sign of being uncomfortable with us. None of these reads really have any depth or trajectory, they're just sort of there.

I've asked you about players, trying to figure out why you're comfortable with them. That's where most of my questions lie, except for Nati.

DDD has faded. So has LLD. So have a ton of players in a bunch of my games. It puts reads kind of on hold and at a different time of year it would probably make me a lot more jumpy than it is here and now.

Plum was so different from the on a boat mini game - so much more transparent, with reads I could understand - that I was happy to call her town. It never changed. With Kaze, I think with nearly every game we've played so far I wound up either trying to peel players off his wagon or trying to peel him off the wagon of someone I thought was town, or both. He's not hard to read, though I'm watching as his depth of play increases for signs that I could be underestimating him.

Cabd townread developed pretty late, and in fact wasn't a townread until after the fact. The one really significant interaction with him was the clash over my PA vote.

I haven't talked about Nati but his entrance into day 2 raises concerns. I can't tell what/why you're thinking about him, and the opaqueness of your reaction there worries me. Similar worries about you and kanye. It seemed like you had suspicions early on and they evaporated, but I can't see why. I've asked you about Kanye a few times and you really haven't given me anything to hold onto regarding his play.

[Selkies]

Purple Plague should be a stronger read probably, but nacho. Recent history says I can't read him for shit but I'm always optimistic that \I'll get him right next time. Until it's next time. In our last few games I think we've both been very suspicious of each other at first when town. The one that gets there first maybe gets a townread from the one who lags a little.

Probably?

yeah, but if you can't sort out nacho, maybe you can try me?

I think I've left some pretty nice stuff.

Yeah you have. Maybe I should be focusing more on your thoughts. You and I still have trouble reading each other, but it's more of a level playing field in some ways.

Hey Syry!

my reads kinda line up with nacho's quite nicely. the DBK read is especially one that I like

everyone who isn't LLD, DDD, or Selkies are decently town

So you're happy with Kanye and Nati also.

[Selkies]

More specifically, Selkies, where was the scum on my wagon? Given that as an unknown I should have been a higher priority for a lynch than the claimed VT Smudger?

Do you really feel like an unknown in this player list?

This was the penultimate vote count. You went to L-1 IIRC with my vote between this count and smudger's lynch. At the time, I thought the way the smudger wagon came back to life looked possibly scum-driven, and if it weren't for your communicating your masonry before Kaze' flip I'd still be feeling pretty squinty-eyed about you. It kinda reinforces a caveat about town players sometimes winding up in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Smudger (L-2) ~ Lady Lambdadelta, penguin_alien, Kazekirimaru, Plum, Garmr
penguin_alien (L-2) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro, Natirasha, Smudger, The Purple Plague, Does Bo Know

Nati jumps out of this list. Maybe nachomara, but nacho had a convincing case to go with his vote. Possibly DDD.

Who do you think are the scum on your wagon?

[Selkies]

you went "oh, I see defensiveness in DBK, better do a meta dive". I don't know why his actions were that significant at that point, or even why you found his defensiveness so troubling. It was also a little blah because, if my memory isn't going away because this game got cast to the side a little bit, DBK push had already seemed to form, then you moved. Same with Smudge & penguin wagons, you always seemed to be one step behind and I didn't really know why.

I don't remember saying I was going to do a meta dive. I didn't do one. By the time I might have gotten around to one if I had concerns, he'd already obvtowned as far as I was concerned, and he was the only real read that Orcinus had. I had 2 MS games with Bo and one offsite game. It was enough data to like how he reacted to his wagon. It reminded me some of the day he was lynched in the newbie game where I replaced scum-Smudger.

what are your reads looking like now? I'm not as interested in orci's read, but if he actually got engaged in this game and has reads, hit me with them.

My reads are all over the last page or two. I'm having trouble believing they aren't obvious.

your plum read is the strongest evidence of you being town, for some strange reason. I sort of liked Nati trying to bait the SK but when the most significant thing he's done is hunt for a third party then well, I'm not really that satisfied with him being town. Kanye read is usually a read based on what pushes he makes and his interactions with me; not too much more although he does have his extremely town moments. We are currently decently synced up now, so he is not a worry for me.

What kanye pushes are giving you a townfeel?

[Selkies]

What's your opinion of #871?

I liked the tone. The frustration feels genuine.

The run-on, overworked feel of the sentences kinda pings in a generic way, but a lot of MS players ping in that way and I don't usually flag something like that anymore unless there's a lot else that bothers me.

[Selkies]

More specifically, Selkies, where was the scum on my wagon? Given that as an unknown I should have been a higher priority for a lynch than the claimed VT Smudger?

Do you really feel like an unknown in this player list?

Unknown role, not unknown as a player. Mafia scum at least would have figured it quite likely that Smudger was actually just a VT; running up and lynching a VT versus at least running up a potential PR is suboptimal.

Ah. makes sense.

This was the penultimate vote count. You went to L-1 IIRC with my vote between this count and smudger's lynch. At the time, I thought the way the smudger wagon came back to life looked possibly scum-driven, and if it weren't for your communicating your masonry before Kaze' flip I'd still be feeling pretty squinty-eyed about you. It kinda reinforces a caveat about town players sometimes winding up in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Smudger (L-2) ~ Lady Lambdadelta, penguin_alien, Kazekirimaru, Plum, Garmr
penguin_alien (L-2) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro, Natirasha, Smudger, The Purple Plague, Does Bo Know

Nati jumps out of this list. Maybe nachomara, but nacho had a convincing case to go with his vote. Possibly DDD.

Who do you think are the scum on your wagon?

As you said, seeing as you voted me right after this vote count, my wagon more accurately looked like: penguin_alien (L-1) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro, Natirasha, Smudger, The Purple Plague, Does Bo Know, Selkies

Smudger = conftown, if DBK is scum of any variety I'll be shocked, and I highly doubt Natirasha is Mafia-scum at least. So PoE says scum on my wagon is in {DDD, TPP, Selkies}

So I gathered. Your Nati doubts are a little confusing, though.

The TPP case on me was that I was town-reading them too easily, I asked a question of Garmr that wasn't viewed as helpful, and they didn't like my reasoning for Smudger-scum for nebulous reasons.

In my experience, scum tend to object to being town-read for unclear reasons more readily than town

, Garmr throwing mud on Smudger without following up with a vote for incredibly sketchy reasons is more clearly scummy now (more on that in another post), although I'll somewhat concede their dislike of my read on Smudger, although given that I was pretty confident scum had daytalk him seeming to take a dive fit with him being scum receiving coaching. What part of the case on me did you like enough to put me at L-1 and never move your vote?

.

Who is the bold in reference to? I disagree about scum objecting to townreads more readily.

It was the first two reasons in Nacho's case that resonated more for me.

The main reason I didn't move my vote was because I really, really didn't like the way the Smudger wagon heaved and thrashed in reaction to your wagon running up. It looked like an attempt to save you.

What about Natirasha is making you think scum?

It looked like he's fishing for reactions from the 2nd killer.

[Selkies]

Heh. the timing of your vote is awesome.

You agree with me about DDD coming off pretty town?

[Selkies]

Yeh PA your completely wrong you should know my scum game I completely smashed you with it in the past.

Yeah i agree with Cabd/PA you need rope.

I don't like this at all.

i concur with this sentiment

i like nati's 904. although it's pretty absurd premise (depeding on how you arrive at it), it's something I found myself doing in large normal.

[Selkies]

nacho are you here

[Selkies]

Yeh PA your completely wrong you should know my scum game I completely smashed you with it in the past.

Yeah i agree with Cabd/PA you need rope.

I don't like this at all.

i concur with this sentiment

I have some pretty strong reservations.

i like nati's 904. although it's pretty absurd premise (depeding on how you arrive at it), it's something I found myself doing in large normal.

NY 165?

[Selkies]

He almost replaced out of the Space game. Different circumstance. It wasn't strategy-motivated, though.

[Selkies]

So do you think it's strategically motivated here?

.

He seemed really frustrated and angry. Genuinely so, regardless of his alignment. So, I don't think this was strategic.

From what he's said about his scum game in the games we've played in the past (he was town in both), a strategic replace-out is something he could conceivably do, so I think Nati is right about at least that.

[Selkies]

172, 198 both came off really town to me in a "yeah I suck at this game" way, but he kept scumhunting. I disagreed with his Smudger vote and the reasons that started around 358, but I thought they were internally consistent in a tone-deaf sort of way that he'd also shown earlier with his Plum suspicions. There was a sheeping feel to his reversal on Smudger around 498, but he'd already kind of latched on to NachoMara and he'd also said pretty early on that he didn't trust his own scumhunting skills and felt he did better listening to other's arguments. If he's scum, that was a masterful set up and a masterful emulation of confused but giving it his best shot town. I don't get why he'd replace out with a feeling lost sort of reason after accomplishing that.

So he's town for being consistent and that you don't think he's able to fake being confused as scum, yes?

I don't think it would look like his posts in this game if he were faking being confused.

The players I'm somewhat familiar with look town this time out. I was scumreading PA but that's evidently me being butthurt over NY164. I was suspicious of her in the Space Mini Normal on day 2, and that turned out to be wrong. Ironically, She was a mason in that game, and her mason partner died on night 1. I was hoping to pick Nacho's brains some more about LLD, Kanye and DDD. I posted earlier why I think DDD's play this game looks town, but it's pretty thin meta soup. I have

that game

for experiential meta, and a newbie game where he was scum that I read in real time.

So, why aren't you picking Nacho's brains?

Nacho mostly hasn't been very forthcoming with me this game. FWIW I think this is more about his conception of my alignment than it is about his alignment. I'm paranoid about him because he's gone to huge effort at times to sort me in other games. In my lucid moments I feel pretty sure he's town.

Day 1 ended prematurely I was pretty happy with a good handful of townreads but hadn't PoE'd it down far enough. Had hoped we'd growl at each other for a while, and move the vote someplace besides Smudger.

Who were the townreads? If you hoped to have a fight with Nacho, why didn't you? Did you think Smudger was a bad lynch?

At first I thought Smudger was posting a lot of insults without giving any indication that he was interacting with scumreads, or even people he had questions about.

When he was first run up, his reaction looked pretty damn town, though. I pushed Nacho on that read and I think he agreed with me, at least for a while.


We didn't get things sorted out day 1 because (IMO) premature hammer. Nacho indicated he wanted more time to sort me before day 1 ended here. I replied here. Kanye hammered before we had that convo here.

I seem to recall something about a penultimate votecount where you swapped from Smudger to PA and put PA at L-1. If you were/are concerned about things not getting sorted because of premature hammers (and you've been burned by that... a lot) why were you putting someone else at L-1?

IIRC At the point where Nacho said he wanted more time to sort me, she wasn't at L-1 anymore. Smudger was.

Town reads:

PA - the middle of the game-night communications channeled by sixty were convincing enough for me to do a major rethink.

Garmr - meta read. This game he's not playing exactly like he did in our two earlier games, but there's a meta-trajectory to what has changed, and I think it's a town-game evolution, not a scum game. I posted some scathing feedback along with an ISO analysis in the space game while I was waiting to be hammered.

DBK/You - explained above. Don't break my heart.

Walked into a Club (Cabd/Mala) - minor concerns at times on day 1 but cabd tried to peel me off the PA wagon and I don't see why he'd care as scum. If anything it seems like the wagon on the stronger player going through would have benefited scum more at least in the short term. (yeah, yeah, terrifying scum game. I'm working pretty hard at not going into paranoid tailspins around him).

Purple Plague should be a stronger read probably, but nacho. Recent history says I can't read him for shit but I'm always optimistic that \I'll get him right next time. Until it's next time. In our last few games I think we've both been very suspicious of each other at first when town. The one that gets there first maybe gets a townread from the one who lags a little.

Middle of the night game communications?

Yeah, Sixty's posts after the day 1 cardflip: 728, 729

Why do you think Garmr's uh, "evolution"? is townish and not scummish?

My feedback to him was about his town game. And the game experience that he was trying to improve his play from was a town game. So, I think the stuff I'm seeing that looks shaped by my feedback and that game experience is an evolution in his town game.

What do you think of the whole Garmr/Cabd situation now?

You mean Garmr's idea that Cabd must be gambiting about something? I think that probably comes from Cabd's meta, including his self-meta.

I'll probably break your heart, but it won't be because of my alignment!

heh. What usually breaks my heart in mafia is being fooled by someone I wholeheartedly think is town.

[Selkies]

So do you think it's strategically motivated here?

.

He seemed really frustrated and angry. Genuinely so, regardless of his alignment. So, I don't think this was strategic.

From what he's said about his scum game in the games we've played in the past (he was town in both), a strategic replace-out is something he could conceivably do, so I think Nati is right about at least that.

So you think what went down merited a ragequit?

Merited? I dunno. I wouldn't assume that this game is the only source of frustration. When I blow up in a game there are usually multiple game-related and/or real life situations going on, not just the proximate cause.

[Selkies]

So do you think it's strategically motivated here?

.

He seemed really frustrated and angry. Genuinely so, regardless of his alignment. So, I don't think this was strategic.

From what he's said about his scum game in the games we've played in the past (he was town in both), a strategic replace-out is something he could conceivably do, so I think Nati is right about at least that.

So you think what went down merited a ragequit?

Merited? I dunno. I wouldn't assume that this game is the only source of frustration. When I blow up in a game there are usually multiple game-related and/or real life situations going on, not just the proximate cause.

All right. So, if you were talking about this game to someone post-completion and had to describe what happened in the thread between 908 and 939 (a nine hour time period), what would you say?

"PA put together a strong cases on Garmr, kept pushing him, and it looked like he fell apart under pressure."

Falling apart under pressure is not unique to scum.

If you know anything about my game, you know that I can get deeply committed to a strong read. In the NY 164 game I reinvented my conception of the game setup rather than accept that a town read had to be scum.

This is not that strong of a read. We're into day 2 and less than a month of play, not day 7 or 8 and 5 months down the road. I feel like you're trying to push a lynch through irrespective of whoever replaces into the slot and what they bring to the game. You're not scum for it. But, I don't think pushing this hard is pro-town.

[Selkies]

I thought it was 927 where he basically folded. His posts after that, he was already cutting ties to the game.

We talked quite a bit in site chat and on skype after the Space game, both about his scum game, which he's quite proud of, and about his town game. He's also talked to Mollie, and she and I share a Mafia mentor, so the changes to Garmr's game do make town-sense to me. I don't think his game is evolving (or will evolve) to resemble mine. His basic predispositions in the game are much closer to Mollie's.

[Selkies]

I said nothing about his reactions being "pro-town". I said that post 927 was where he gave up the fight. I think he handled himself very badly in his reaction to you. But reacting badly to your case and to the subsequent questions doesn't make him scum.

[Selkies]

You know, a "your case sucks" reaction is far more likely to come from town than from scum. Scum get all hung up about why the case is wrong. A town player knows the case is fucking wrong.

[Selkies]

ffery head v/la through 1/8

[Selkies]

I also think Selkies is a little underwhelming, and not at all what I expect to come from selkies town

Basically everything substantial that's come out of our mouth has been fery, not me.

I keep missing the active periods of the game. I don't like playing non-realtime

[Selkies]

I like Mags snark. Reminds me if obstinate towns inve played with.

Sorry for missing that, you still around?

[Selkies]

I think Bo needs more suspicion

[Selkies]

Yes it does.

I was talking to PA but that's ok

Magua what do you think of nachomara

[Selkies]

Well I was presented with DDD vs Magua. I have been rereading the game and I don't really have any scum reads because I've been so out of it. I like Magua though.

Oh but I dislike DBK because it looked like he was throwing random reads places and seeing what would stick before he finally replaced out. Looked fishy

[Selkies]

Like I said, I think the snark is town. I had to replace into a heavily scummy slot and I was a lot less chill than Magua.

Also from that game I have sort of a policy to not give replacements all the shit their predecessor would have deserved out of respect.

PA talk to me about why DDD is scum (or if you did could you quote it because I missed it. )

[Selkies]

Also I'd just like to point out that though normally I'd be against such a forced lynch pool I think given activity of town and how late we are in the day it's understandable

[Selkies]

Yeh PA your completely wrong you should know my scum game I completely smashed you with it in the past.

Yeah i agree with Cabd/PA you need rope.

I don't like this at all.

i concur with this sentiment

i like nati's 904. although it's pretty absurd premise (depeding on how you arrive at it), it's something I found myself doing in large normal.

orcinus, if this was you, what changed?

Ugh

Ok so I fucking hate how waffly this sounds but I didn't like garmrs posting, but I think Magua is town and I think that if I were up for a garmr vote I'd have to be convinced Magua is scum.

[Selkies]

Oh whoops DDD is a Poe scum read ok

[Selkies]

Forced lynch pool? You want Syryana added to the options under discussion, vote him and the wagon will be as serious as DDD's is. What do you think of his posting though, since you don't hold replacements' predecessors against them?

Syrs posting is underwhelming

I think predecessors posting is cause for suspicion, not lynch.

[Selkies]

I normally wouldn't be but I feel I'd be a hypocritical if I said that.

I don't know and I'm trying to figure that out right now.

Yes. Let me go see.

[Selkies]

Also I have debate prep like 5 minutes ago but can you shoot me a reads list with a short sentence explanation for each

[Selkies]

His 'reads' on us, garmr, DDD

[Selkies]

Also I have debate prep like 5 minutes ago but can you shoot me a reads list with a short sentence explanation for each

How do you see this helping you?

Gives me people to look at. Do you see withholding this particularly protown

[Selkies]

Hi syr

I will admit that I am loathe to lynch Magua for reasons that are not entirely concerned with her alignment, and for some reasons that are

Idk what response to 1030 means

[Selkies]

what do you think about magua

[Selkies]

He's veteran enough to keep it together and act natural regardless of alignment

awww i was really hoping that we would be able to read him!!

[Selkies]

what would constitute a "good" read pray tell

what is yours specificaly on mag

[Selkies]

Sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet it seems

[Selkies]

No, I was being sarcastic by insinuating that syry's read on mag was worth shit

idk i worded that poorly I hate typing on ipads

[Selkies]

Also I have debate prep like 5 minutes ago but can you shoot me a reads list with a short sentence explanation for each

How do you see this helping you?

Gives me people to look at. Do you see withholding this particularly protown

Blergh, I suppose you're right. See the following (although I don't have the energy to add the explanations) and tell me what you think:

T -> S: TPP, kanye, WIAC, Selkies, LLD, DDD, Syryana, Magua, Natirasha

i dropped fery a quick note last night and she confirmed what i thought

i feel midly insulted by this

[Selkies]

He's participated more than, say, LLD thus far. At least in what I've read. Is lack of activity your only reason for DDD-scum? (I'm including the lack of sorting people under lack of activity)

Yeah, I know. I'm a little suspicious of LLD to, but Nacho trusts Kanye's read on her.

it isn't the lack of activity, it's a lack of proactivity in what he's posted thus far. In Vi's last game (godhelpme) the biggest reason we had Chosen to Neighborize DDD and Tierce/Empire was due to the fact that, we had wanted to make our one neighborizing option be as close to a masonry as possible and we had thought DDD was town as fuck from his entrance D2. I did have some reservations on Tierce, but Empire's play was more than town enough, and it was wholly possible that the reservations I had were nothing but paranoia


as for selkies, I expect Orci to be a little

less

nice and self-pitiful and be a little bit more aggressive. I am sympathetic in the lack of real time interaction because he lives in China (and it is a problem that I tend to have, sometimes) but I don't recall it stopping him from playing before.


Peng: why are we at the top of your reads list? above whatever living mason-partner you may have left?

also explain Magua and Syry

Stupid computer shut off while I was typing

Pro activity: I'm back and I'm trying
Niceness: it's something that I realized that I need to work on. Like I'm fine with you scum reading me don't get me wrong i know how bad my play has been but I can tell you with complete honesty that regardless of my alignment this game, niceness is something I'm trying to change about my play
That fucking stupid reads list: was fucking stupid and don't bother with it

Where are your thoughts for today

[Selkies]

Also what is your thought on syry/bo

[Selkies]

I got what I wanted out of the fucking stupid reads list.

You'll have to elaborate here.

[Selkies]

Also I have debate prep like 5 minutes ago but can you shoot me a reads list with a short sentence explanation for each

How do you see this helping you?

Gives me people to look at. Do you see withholding this particularly protown

I strongly suspect that you're just being a dick now for the sake of it

[Selkies]

Yes. You are conftown. I never suggested otherwise. Which means that I value your reads as one that I know to be coming as from town. Given that I'm still trying to get my reads sorted as a result of not being in the game, yours would be helpful to give me something to build on.

I want to work with you, not be your goddamn lap dog. And I've laid down quite clearly that I want to see Magua-scum before I'm willing to vote the slot. That's not rolling over. That's refusing to do so.

[Selkies]

That's ok though since I think fery is back and I can bounce off of her instead.

[Selkies]

Syryana's town to me

Why is this?

[Selkies]

Kanye thought that last point was scummy. What do you make of that

[Selkies]

I'm aware, but I disagree. What do you think of it?

I think it's contrived.

Also fery thinks syry is town and I trust her ability to read her hydra partners. Despite whatever I dislike about her play.

What policy is this?

[Selkies]

I want to figure which two of you, Cabd, Nacho are scum today really.

how did this work out

[Selkies]

Oh wait I missed that post.

okay, why does TPP a shooting role in your opinion

[Selkies]

why hello there

[Selkies]

Magua not questioning me makes me feel unloved

[Selkies]

what don't you like about mag's posting

[Selkies]

your test is retired, cabd.

[Selkies]

I think Bo needs more suspicion

No he doesn't.

Yeh PA your completely wrong you should know my scum game I completely smashed you with it in the past.

Yeah i agree with Cabd/PA you need rope.

I don't like this at all.

i concur with this sentiment

i like nati's 904. although it's pretty absurd premise (depeding on how you arrive at it), it's something I found myself doing in large normal.

orcinus, if this was you, what changed?

Ugh

Ok so I fucking hate how waffly this sounds but I didn't like garmrs posting, but I think Magua is town and I think that if I were up for a garmr vote I'd have to be convinced Magua is scum.

I'll take remedial mafia classes if garmr flips scum.

I am particularly dissatisfied with the disappearance of two people whose input I value very much.

I'd like to think I'm one of them. I'll be around tomorrow.

Also I have debate prep like 5 minutes ago but can you shoot me a reads list with a short sentence explanation for each

How do you see this helping you?

Gives me people to look at. Do you see withholding this particularly protown

Blergh, I suppose you're right. See the following (although I don't have the energy to add the explanations) and tell me what you think:

T -> S: TPP, kanye, WIAC, Selkies, LLD, DDD, Syryana, Magua, Natirasha

Your posts to date don't really reflect this ranking. What has changed your mind?

[Selkies]

My impression of your reads is that you have garmr and us as scumbuddies. And you're suspicious of Nati. Also, TTP is higher in that list than your posts indicate.

Trajectory is a thing.

[Selkies]

I told him I thought you are scumreading us.

Your list doesn't reflect that. I think he felt like his intelligence was being insulted.

[Selkies]

They didn't respond directly to it that I recall.

[Selkies]

And yeah, looking through their ISO, I see discussion of their own reads and a push on Syr about his DDD read.

[Selkies]

Ah.

I'd rather not speculate out loud on the first part. I was surprised that Syr was that low in your list, too. As far as Magua goes, neither of your stances surprise me.

[Selkies]

Magua, if you're town, claim before the battery runs so low we have no choice but to lynch you to avoid a no-lynch irrespective of your claim.

No.

If I'm going to get lynched, claiming my role will not stop me from being lynched.
If I'm not going to get lynched, claiming my role helps scum because then, you see, they know my role.

So since there's no benefit in claiming, not going to.

Oh I got the joke. I think I would know better than you

How about we see what you flip first rather than useless speculation of "what if" scenarios? Not that I think you will be flipping town at all because your slot has been reading scummy to me before the replace out, then him fleeing after he got cornered didn't help my read either and your posts aren't so hot either. [inb4confbais]

I honestly don't give a shit if you got the joke. It was a throwaway joke.

I give a shit that of everything that was posted, that was the *only* thing you bothered to respond to. Which makes your post thought process, as near as I can tell, "La la la, pages of stuff, la la la, content, la la la, oh, look, Magua made a joke, let's ask him about that! Welp, there, posted a one liner, time for bed!"

You know what I do give a shit about? You classifying this speculation as "useless" when the WHOLE FUCKING POINT is to get you to illuminate your thought process and, here's the key part, show where your thought process will take you AFTER I FUCKING FLIP TOWN.

I simply cannot believe that you do not understand this.

It's very simple, so I'll use small words.

You say what

you'll

you will think when I flip town.

If I flip scum, as

you're

you are sure

I'll

I will do, THEN IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER AND HOLY SHIT TOWN GOT SOME MORE CONTENT SO HOORAY.

The only reason *not* to do it is if you don't want to tie yourself down to reads you know you're going to have to own up to, and you want to keep your strategic wagon options open.

Oops, sorry, I used some bigger words there. Let me know if you have trouble.

I'm curious as to why people are townreading kanye. I'll admit to not knowing his meta other than by reputation he's a much better player than typist but I see a player who was on the mislynch yesterday and who mostly today has sat back and asked questions, voted me which is a bad vote and voted Syr and while I don't consider that a bad vote there's been no serious push in that direction and the one point brought up about Syr is pretty dodgy and feels like a lame application of LAL and nothing more.

To be utterly frank, why do you care about whether people are townreading kanye or not when you're not even getting off your ass enough to vote him yourself?

If you think he's scum, say he's scum. Don't pull this weak-assed crap.

Perhaps you could also go that extra mile and say what you think about me, because that would also be grand.

---

Seriously, what the fuck is it with everyone aside from penguin, Selkies, and half of Syryana in terms of actively trying to avoid providing content here? Half of y'all are barely posting and the other half post while specifically avoiding providing content.

PA, who would you be willing to lynch today aside from Magua

[Selkies]

Magua, if you're town, claim before the battery runs so low we have no choice but to lynch you to avoid a no-lynch irrespective of your claim.

I'm aware, but I disagree. What do you think of it?

I think it's contrived.

Also fery thinks syry is town and I trust her ability to read her hydra partners. Despite whatever I dislike about her play.

What policy is this?

So Syryana's not knowing I was a claimed and effectively confirmed mason was contrived in your opinion, which I assume you think comes from scum. But ffery thinks Syryana is town, so you're going with that. Even though you don't like ffery's play, despite having chosen to hydra for this game?

I genuinely do not get your read. What I am getting is that you-orcinus think he's scum, but you're going to ignore this in favor of your-ffery's read. Which means you can pull out your scum read at your convenience.

What's the benefit for scum-Syryana to pretend not to know I was a mason?

Yes. You are conftown. I never suggested otherwise. Which means that I value your reads as one that I know to be coming as from town. Given that I'm still trying to get my reads sorted as a result of not being in the game, yours would be helpful to give me something to build on.

I want to work with you, not be your goddamn lap dog. And I've laid down quite clearly that I want to see Magua-scum before I'm willing to vote the slot. That's not rolling over. That's refusing to do so.

I actually had documented my opinions on several other players, including Syryana, Natirasha, and kayne. My ISO is still pretty short. If you really wanted to put your head together with mine without reading the whole game, why not just read my D2 posts and work from there? I'm not interested in lap dogs either, and I've put enough out there for anyone who wants to to meet me partway.

You knew my strongest read going into this and yet had no interest in it despite Garmr scum-claiming via his replace-out post. Because he got replaced, whoopee. It's like going to see a production of Hamlet, being disappointed at the massive casualties, and coming back to see it with a new actor in the lead role with the hope that it'll end differently this time. Spoiler alert: everyone's still going to die. Doesn't matter who's playing Hamlet, the character's still an idiot. And so it is here: Garmr was scum, so Magua, genuinely amusing though he is, is still scum.

This hydra has a history of me deferring certain reads to fery. Sven was one in our first game. This is one.

I don't like syrys play, not ferys. If fery town reads syry, that would be what I am going along with, since I am absolutely confident in her ability to figure syry out. I didn't know about the strength of the syry town read when I first got back into this game (fery was vla).

I know your strongest read. I disagree with it. We've been through this. Just because I disagree with your strongest read doesn't mean that I'm somehow unwilling to work with you.

Like I said, I dislike playing catchup. I fail to see how you couldn't have quoted a few posts for me that we're of particular importance. I don't see what you're trying to prove (orcinus is scum because of laziness? Hah. )

[Selkies]

What did you think of TPP's response to the reads list? Which yes, was strategically faked BS. And it wasn't an insult to his intelligence, but rather me taking advantage of the situation to garner other reactions. If he really wanted to discuss some of my reads, he could have gotten them from my ISO, so I don't feel badly about it.

I would've expected this slot to have stayed away from it. It was obvious enough of a reaction test, even for someone who hasn't really been here. The reaction itself seemed to be taking your list at face value, which I didn't really expect.

Also I don't really like how the slot was complaining about town apathy and then when I showed up they left

What do you think about it

[Selkies]

I swear I posted this yesterday, ugh, rewriting...

I don't want to lynch you anymore! Why was the Smudger wagon a bad wagon, in your opinion (other than he's a dead townie, obv)

Because he claimed before anyone asked him to claim and his claim was that of a vanilla townie; there's absolutely no benefit to that for scum other than maybe a bit of WIFOM and Smudger didn't seem like the type to be playign the WIFOM game. Furthermore his tone was defeatist through the end of the day but he kept posting, again there's slight WIFOM potential but caught scum are more likely to either clam up completely or say crazy shit to either force claims or to just give their scum partners more information and again his path was the path of a (bad) town player.

Why doesn't he seem like the type to play WIFOM? Seems like that got pulled out of your ass.

[Selkies]

Hi nacho

[Selkies]

I'm glad we're not the only ones not liking magua as a lynch.

talk to me about your reaction to PA's readslist though. did you think that was a real list? as well as your reaction to magua's vote on syry--is that diminishing your read on mag or what

[Selkies]

What did you think of TPP's response to the reads list? Which yes, was strategically faked BS. And it wasn't an insult to his intelligence, but rather me taking advantage of the situation to garner other reactions. If he really wanted to discuss some of my reads, he could have gotten them from my ISO, so I don't feel badly about it.

I would've expected this slot to have stayed away from it. It was obvious enough of a reaction test, even for someone who hasn't really been here. The reaction itself seemed to be taking your list at face value, which I didn't really expect.

Also I don't really like how the slot was complaining about town apathy and then when I showed up they left

What do you think about it

I find battery deadlines don't inspire the same deadline fear as a definite deadline does because I continuously look at this game and it's always like 30 something percent and decide to post in other games for other reasons.

yeah well could you stay here please we're not doing so well and i don't think our conftown is onto scum

I'm glad we're not the only ones not liking magua as a lynch.

talk to me about your reaction to PA's readslist though. did you think that was a real list? as well as your reaction to magua's vote on syry--is that diminishing your read on mag or what

Mara thought it was a real reads list, yeah.
I don't give a shit about Magua vote on Syr, he still seems town.

lol ok

VOTE: DDD

[Selkies]

Do you have meta on nati?

[Selkies]

How much of your read on nacho is predicated on nacho not liking you

[Selkies]

also i am not a fan of "i am going to figure out nacho selkies and cabd" and then just delivering three reads with no transparency in your thought process in between

you wanna talk to me about that

[Selkies]

Yeah when I said nacho not liking you I mean nacho does not have a favorable read on you from what I can tell

[Selkies]

Yeah when I said nacho not liking you I mean nacho does not have a favorable read on you from what I can tell

It's more mara from what I can tell.

I think they're running out of acceptable mislynch targets.

As a serial killer?
What?

That cogdis

[Selkies]

How strong is your read on LLD, nacho?

Pedit I feel like my post asking for your thought process or at least some smidgen of reasoning got ignored

[Selkies]

You're arguing why it's anti town, not why it's scum

[Selkies]

As a serial killer?
What?

You could be scum too. More likely SK though.

But you've been calling me a shooter for a while now, hence why suddenly going "oh he's running out of mislynch targets" is a big :/

Actually I'd like to hear why the read on nacho was that of a shooter rather than a straight out scum read

[Selkies]

Pedit I feel like my post asking for your thought process or at least some smidgen of reasoning got ignored

I'm not sure you could handle my thought process.

How fascinating.

[Selkies]

Are you reading the game? He showed absolutely no guile in basically anything he said and was the same way the last time I played with him.

'Who said the WIFOM was conscious

[Selkies]

Is this really an argument you're making? Like I don't even understand where the hell you're going with this other than arguing for the sake of arguing.

Nah, I'm just trying to understand where your head is at. This line makes me feel better about voting you without fery's consent though.

[Selkies]

1189-1191 was...nacho? I kinda want to know before responding to them.

[Selkies]

If you're town, then that would mean DDD, Magua, and Nati are the scum-team and that's a really, really weird scum team IMO

I could also be giving Syr a little bit to much Leeway because of how Bo acted, but...

Why is this?

Wait, so you were townreading bo?

[Selkies]

No, this is mara ok.

What don't you like about Magua? I kinda like magua much moe than I liked garmr. Fery I recall had a hard town on him though, so I think our reads line up nicely.

Who would you suggest as a vig target?

[Selkies]

I actually have a vague town-read on you because I'm hard-pressed to find the scum-motivation behind what you're doing regardless of how anti-town it is

Um.

One line, bare minimum zingers with no transparency has quite a bit of scum-motivation.

For one, you get to avoid any responsibility for coming up with your fake reads
For two, you don't draw any scumreads because you're providing content even though it doesn't even mean anything
For three, you discourage people questioning you because it's futile. For instance, if somebody questioned me and I ignored them, it would be pretty suspicious. Versus Nati, who can just cherry pick whatever he wants to comment on because he does all of jackshit.
Like I mean there's so much scum motivation in this playstyle idgi

[Selkies]

Sad face that:

-Ffery leaves me to deal with orcinus

I said hi yesterday because I thought you were looking for me. :/

orcinus wanted/needed to get grounded in the game and form his own opinions, so I took a step back aside from that exchange with PA over her readslist.

I'm not as gung-ho about DDD as orcinus is, but his substantive involvement has gotten kinda meh. I was thinking about

that game

and how scum-me thought DDD was scary as fuck. It's hard to imagine a scum team in this game that would feel that way about him.

[Selkies]

Which game is

that game

?

Xenologue

[Selkies]

I don't remember DDD being particularly afraid to vote Andrius who most people thought were town; at the very least, "who can I get lynched" didn't really come into his consideration to the point it is here. I can't imagine that DDD going "aww man we can't get anyone lynched, imma no vote" like he seems to be doing here.

Yeah. iirc he was pretty absent on day 2, but he pushed his Andrius read when he was around.

[Selkies]

I'd like Selkies to claim, as my two cents.

Vanilla. Safety Seal

[Selkies]

I thought I had Kaze-scum nailed

I'm going to declare myself the resident expert on reading Kaze.


p-edit It's ffery

[Selkies]

I would like to hear thoughts either way but I'm interested in ffery take on events a small margin more.

Would scum-LLD claim BP?

[Selkies]

Would scum-LLD claim BP?

The better question is why anyone would claim BP.

I really don't understand the site meta around that role.

[Selkies]

Nacho what kind of seal are you?

[Selkies]

Ffery, those posts today were all you planned on contributing?

The slices of my brain devoted to this game want to go way out into the weeds on setup spec. The on a boat town did that, racked up two more mislynches (including mine because lolBP) and lost the game.

[Selkies]

I wish you had because at this rate I'm probably going to be the LYLO mislynch.

[Selkies]

Damn it.

There went my gut.

[Selkies]

i have a flight today and a competition next few days, might not be around much.

PA where are your current thoughts for the day

Nacho im hurt

[Selkies]

I wish you had because at this rate I'm probably going to be the LYLO mislynch.

Since when were you ever worried about being a LyLo mislynch with Cabd and I around?

p sure Cabd is scumreading me unless he and PA are in serious disagreement.

I've been churning the possibility that you're SK until I looked at that post after I posted it. My gut concluded before I did.

[Selkies]

I wish you had because at this rate I'm probably going to be the LYLO mislynch.

Since when were you ever worried about being a LyLo mislynch with Cabd and I around?

both of whom, are, i must add, misreading our slot

[Selkies]

I wish you had because at this rate I'm probably going to be the LYLO mislynch.

Since when were you ever worried about being a LyLo mislynch with Cabd and I around?

p sure Cabd is scumreading me unless he and PA are in serious disagreement.

I've been churning the possibility that you're SK until I looked at that post after I posted it. My gut concluded before I did.

I scumread you in Pick and Ban but you had a pretty strong confidence in me townreading you eventually there. Why is it completely missing here?

Not confidence, trust. Trust that you were town and that you'd put the effort in.

I haven't really had that trust this game. I think I'm finding it.

I have to go get my car from the repair shop. I should be back pretty soon.

[Selkies]

I wish you had because at this rate I'm probably going to be the LYLO mislynch.

Since when were you ever worried about being a LyLo mislynch with Cabd and I around?

p sure Cabd is scumreading me unless he and PA are in serious disagreement.

I've been churning the possibility that you're SK until I looked at that post after I posted it. My gut concluded before I did.

I scumread you in Pick and Ban but you had a pretty strong confidence in me townreading you eventually there. Why is it completely missing here?

Not confidence, trust. Trust that you were town and that you'd put the effort in.

I haven't really had that trust this game. I think I'm finding it.

Nothing to say?

[Selkies]

Not really, no. I was a little offended that you didn't trust I'd put the effort in because I've always put the effort in, especially with you. But that's not something that's particularly game relevant and so didn't bring it up. What do you think of the gamestate?

Trust starts with believing you're town. I've had a hard time nailing that belief down at times. I trusted you enough to follow you near the end of day 1. You were wrong, which happens. But I felt like on top of getting a lot of amorphous squinty-eyed crap from PA, you've been giving off not sure about me vibes while

at the same time

your reads and mine were converging.

[Selkies]

the compulsive tack on our role makes the anti-townness of it that much more potent, so I don't really see how it isn't balanced with day-talk, night posting masons and a (day-talking?) Neighborizer.

I'm p sure I've ever played a game that featured a compulsive vig. It does have some balance implications.

[Selkies]

Ideal way is Selkies confirms alignment, is either town or scum.

What?

[Selkies]

Ideal way is Selkies confirms alignment, is either town or scum.

What?

I sort you out and get a very solid read on you.

You keep making noises about sorting me but you never really dig in. That's part of what's bothered me.

[Selkies]

My concerns about his lack of aggressive play have pretty much evaporated. :/

Masons plus neighbors tweaks a little if for no reason than that scum had various neighboring abilities in the xenologue game. But, at least neighborhoods don't appear to be the ubiquitous feature here that they were in that game.

What do you think of his push on you?

[Selkies]

I'm a bit biased since I feel the push on me being scum additionally requires me to be moronic but I still think he's probably town and just being paranoid. Why were you concerned about him being not aggressive enough earlier? I usually don't picture Kanye as an outwardly aggressive type player unless he really sinks his teeth into something.

In the only other game we played, he took a very frontline role from the start in trying to figure out how to figure out and take advantage of the game mechanics. He seemed way, way more easy going in this game. Like there was a drive missing. That changed day 2. Maybe it comes down to role influencing play on day 1. My day 1 in the cash cabd game was probably too focused on wanting to be sure about you and not focused enough in sorting other players because of my role driving a night 1 decision.

[Selkies]

That makes sense.

What do you think of Natirasha?

I still feel like his early day 2 play felt like SK/Vig hunting.

Also, I may have missed it, but I don't think he's really said much about game balance since the mass claim. I expect town-him to work through that and look for potential fake claims and stuff.

[Selkies]

That makes sense.

What do you think of Natirasha?

I still feel like his early day 2 play felt like SK/Vig hunting.

Also, I may have missed it, but I don't think he's really said much about game balance since the mass claim. I expect town-him to work through that and look for potential fake claims and stuff.

What about his Day 1 play? You were initially leaning town on it; are you willing to let that go?

I don't even remember what I thought about Nati on day 1. I think he was null or null-town. Maybe orcinus was townreading him?

WHat do you think of his behavior after he determined we were likely the killer? That's the big scum tell for me.

I thought he was SK hunting. Usually it's scum who hunt SKs that hard. I had a wild idea he could actually be the SK, but he's told me a few times that he thinks the best SK play is to hold their kill.

Quick scan through his ISO and it was almost like he was warning you off. post 906 comes off like he was telling you to watch your step.

[Selkies]

I don't think I posted earlier. I got pulled away partway through my rounds this morning. I'm kinda here. skipping around a lot.

Also, Mara, why didn't you ask all of your proposed townbloc what they think about this?

p-edit - Smudger seems less go-getter than he was in the first game I played with him. Nats looks like he's doing his early-game autopilot, which I associate more with town-nat than scum-nat. LLD I don't have an opinion yet.

Here is your early townread on Nati, ffery.

Yeah. That was basically null-town. Is it accurate? I think he's a little more likely to post reads when pushed on day 1 as scum than as town. I should have pushed him for reads to see what he did.

[Selkies]

I don't think I posted earlier. I got pulled away partway through my rounds this morning. I'm kinda here. skipping around a lot.

Also, Mara, why didn't you ask all of your proposed townbloc what they think about this?

p-edit - Smudger seems less go-getter than he was in the first game I played with him. Nats looks like he's doing his early-game autopilot, which I associate more with town-nat than scum-nat. LLD I don't have an opinion yet.

Here is your early townread on Nati, ffery.

Yeah. That was basically null-town. Is it accurate? I think he's a little more likely to post reads when pushed on day 1 as scum than as town. I should have pushed him for reads to see what he did.

We don't have much time anymore, ffery. If you want me to put in the effort (which is pretty necessary at this stage), I need you to be around. Will you be around?

I'm here as cooking allows. Can be completely devoted to this game as soon as I clean up the post-meal wreck.

[Selkies]

Final questions about Nati:
What does the warning off on you mean? What is your final verdic on him? When I was asking you about him I was hoping you would give me something like "based on Nati this game or based on what I know as someone who has been inside his head...". Do you have anything like that for me?

I don't have a "verdict". Not yet. I need to talk about stuff.

In Marketplace he went through ups and downs as far as his game-devotion. I think it came down to not having much influence over town. In FEA he was highly involved early on and intensely involved by day 3/4.

What's different about this game? Lack of unusual mechanics or roles?

Have you ever seen him do something like that warning as any alignment?

12 percent. shit.

As far as what I've learned from hydraing with him, he has conceptual leaps. I think he's good at figuring when a push for as much data as possible will help town and tends to push earlier than most players are comfortable with.

He wasn't the one who pushed for mass claim today. He agreed readily, though.

[Selkies]

I'm so depressed with this game right now I don't even know what to do.

I'm never playing a game with mara again.

Hi cabd. Who are we looking at today

[Selkies]

I'm at school right now and rereading.

I think I'd be up for Danny or nati today

Masons and vig makes no fucking sense to me but PA is conftown right now so

Ufghhgh

[Selkies]

Also cabd was your role crumbed anymore

Pedit ok

[Selkies]

*anywhere

[Selkies]

(We also like LLD for town fwiw so the scumlist is also POE)

It's also at least a third wrong but don't let that stop the two minute hate on me.

DDD arrives five pages late to the party; with a total disregard for the game state and instead going on about how being wrong on the day one wagons means he's not allowed to have opinions. Probably a mafia PR given the nature of his claim. Also him completely flying over the point of post 1403 seems kind of weird, and gives an indication he knows what PRs mafia has and is one of them himself.

Sorry dead mason that I didn't impress you by faking a shocked reaction post after it had already been said three or more times. And I apparently don't get the point of 1403 then, I see a potentially faulty theory I question it. Beyond their incorrectness about me I hate most of their town reads and even the logic behind the town reads I do agree with.

~~

For those who had a sad about me not making a pointless gesture yesterday, let me go ahead and make it today then.

VOTE: kanyeknowsbest

Nacho was pretty damn certain about his Kanye read.

[Selkies]

Selkies just came in and claimed, with no engagement or comments on all the crap flying every which way. The method of the claim makes me think "mafia goon" but they could have some sort of PR. Selkies then goes for the minor things instead of the huge flying red flags flying everywhere.

This is not correct. The huge flying red flags to me was Nacho's and LLD's claims. The way Nacho claimed was incredibly fucking town, though. LLD wasn't around much when Nacho and I tried one more time to sort the game yesterday.

It would have been better to have mass claimed earlier or to have waited until today. Probably today, since it's painfully obvious that town has no protective roles.

The nail in the coffin is their complete lack of engagement with you (club) once you were confirmed town.

It was pretty obvious you were working with PA, and you've both made terrible pushes. Given my stance - being scumread by confirmed town - this game is extremely frustrating. And we're now at the point where another mislynch can lose it.

If you actually want to work on reads, I'm here and I'm listening.