I explained in posts 3057, and 3788. I played quite a few games with Bert.In post 4346, KoreanBBQ wrote:F-16 explain Bert town.
Hahaha I love how you give no fucks about actually looking like you care about scum-hunting anymore. I mean, I feel for you. I really do. It's hard when you're scum and you've been caught in a shit position to actually argue through it. So I genuinely feel for you.In post 4363, Cephrir wrote:I'm done trying to have this conversation, you can die now
Pro tip: You didn't actually have ANY reasons of your own, but it's okay we'll pretend you did *wink wink*In post 4373, Cephrir wrote: Nah bro, I def think he's scum too. Outside chance of just retarded, but, probably scum. You can see that from when I originally voted him in the first place even if my reasons were kind of shitty.
I never actually voted you because I necessarily "suspect" you. I did it because I didn't really want to be on Pie anymore and Casso had voted you and I wanted to add my vote as a pressure, plus it was a bonus that I your virtually non-existent scumpool had made me uneasy. I unvoted you because, as I said in 2094, it wasn't likely that you'll be the lynch of the day. Plus, I found your coolness in the way you replied to my vote kinda townish (I mean I suspect it now because I'm getting paranoid so meh).In post 4371, zMuffinMan wrote:the things i don't like are the things i don't like and i'm not going to avoid mentioning those things just because i think you might be town. your read progression on me is still one of the things i don't like about you because i don't understand how you went from initially thinking i'm town to thinking i'm scum (or at least a worthwhile vote) to changing your mind about me at some point between the end of D1 and that reads list you recently gave to now thinking i'm scum again (or at least that i've earned "scum points"?). it'd be nice if you actually explained what was going on with this.
Yeah - that would probably be a good idea. I'll have a look in a bit.In post 4372, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:I am not the best person to tell you that since I am scumreading Cephrir based on his posts about me which is hardly unbiased. I'll re-evaluate his interaction with other people and go through his other games when I find time. I read through your argument with him and I didn't find anything alignment indicative. I can see "misreps" coming from both town and scum. I had a huge argument with Bulbazak in Micro 252 where I thought he was scum because of perceived misreps on his part but when I took a step back and objectively analyzed his posts, I realized he was town. Cephrir's play reminded me of Bulbazak's a lot in that he tends to attack nearly everything his scumreads do so a similar strategy like not looking into what he said about me in particular might help figure out his alignment. Let's try this: you go through Cephrir's posts about me and offer your opinions. I'll go through his posts about you and offer mine.
Well I mean when I argue/talk/etc with people I always assume they're town, so even if they're scum they would be pretending to be town. So that's more an "if" statement.In post 4372, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Also, what is your read on Desperado? In 4113, you talk about how you are going to prove him to be a moron at endgame implying you think he is town. Has your read changed since D1 and when you posted your tiers? What other reads of yours were influenced by the nightkill?
Here's where I am at:In post 4347, geists wrote:Yeah, I know I need to roll up my sleeves and choose a direction. I haven't been good at leading in recent games - at least not with a good target in hand.
What I really want to do is some PoE with strong town reads. But, I feel like my strong town reads aren't feeling any more strongly about their scumreads/PoE than I am.
It's going to wait a day or so.
No, I claimed being in a neighborhood, as a lover-pair who's alignment was confirmed to me.In post 4352, Norlkaz wrote: I am somewhat disgusted by MC / GM being masons, but they laid considerable groundwork for the claim and haven't backed down.
It's worth mentioning that Marangal claimed masons as scum in Wingate, but she was also scummier in that game.
why desp?In post 4383, MC Maraca wrote:HAPPY NEW YEARS EVERYONE
LETS START 2014 WITH A SCUM LYNCH, WHO'S WITH ME
VOTE: desperado
did you notice he did that with me too? I started off as null, then apparently I got moved to town for no reason (supposedly it wasn't bc of his push on me) and then he reversed said read and it seems like he was just following the general impression of people's reads on me. then when I asked him why I got moved to town he ignored my questionIn post 4371, zMuffinMan wrote:your read progression on me is still one of the things i don't like about you because i don't understand how you went from initially thinking i'm town to thinking i'm scum (or at least a worthwhile vote) to changing your mind about me at some point between the end of D1 and that reads list you recently gave to now thinking i'm scum again (or at least that i've earned "scum points"?). it'd be nice if you actually explained what was going on with this.
Cabd/ffery/GiF/Nacho/Desp?In post 4386, pieguyn wrote:@Norlkaz:why am I scum? also, who is scum on the assumption that I'm town?
you're aware that by forming a scumteam based entirely off me everything gets fked up if I'm town right? mb it's just me but that way of forming reads often leads to confbias and large potential for error if your initial assumptions (me-scum) are wrong. why would you take that kind of approach in forming your reads? like I can't see why you'd do that given how prone to error it is 0.0
You're making my head hurt.In post 4389, BROseidon wrote:Cabd/ffery/GiF/Nacho/Desp?In post 4386, pieguyn wrote:@Norlkaz:why am I scum? also, who is scum on the assumption that I'm town?
you're aware that by forming a scumteam based entirely off me everything gets fked up if I'm town right? mb it's just me but that way of forming reads often leads to confbias and large potential for error if your initial assumptions (me-scum) are wrong. why would you take that kind of approach in forming your reads? like I can't see why you'd do that given how prone to error it is 0.0
How does this compare to how people responded to me in Xenogears for primarily pushing associative cases off of Mala?
Similarities - Muffin lazy in both.In post 4294, geists wrote:Nacho - compare and contrast zmuffin's play in this game with his play in the FEA game.
Excusing for what?In post 4295, goodmorning wrote:There's been a bit too much excusing for my tastes.
No. The push on Nero Cain became a bus eventually, but when DrPepper was lynched the push to bus was mostly pushed by me and he followed along because DrPepper was getting lynched with or without him.In post 4309, BROseidon wrote:Hey everyone in marketplace quick question:
Did muffin aggressively bus one or more of his scum mates there early?
I wanted to reread him before making him an angel; a lot of the basis for my strong townread on him was based on feelings and showing him actually caring about things in a way that wasn't present at all when he was scum, but I wasn't sure this would hold up completely if I read things again.In post 4322, geists wrote:Also, Nacho, why is bert in the angels in waiting pile?
I like what you've said so far and I don't really have that much of a case against you, but I don't really think you are that town compared to other people higher up on the list. I'm likely to move my vote after I do a little reading, though.In post 4327, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Nacho/Thor/Whoever why are you still voting me if I've defended against everything you've put forth? The fact that you seem to like what I say yet still have your vote camped on me makes me quite uneasy.
You played to your town meta which looking nothing like your normal scum meta, which was something you'd established and had for a while. I don't see the significant difference between what you said and what I said.In post 4335, zMuffinMan wrote:that's not *actually* what i was doing in marketplace, and you know it. what i was doing in marketplace was deliberately playing to my "town meta" because i knew morph was eventually going to metadive me and i wanted them to read me as town when they did it. everything i did was designed to elicit a town read from them when they metadived me
See, but I did try to understand why you weren't engaged. I looked at places where you were not engaged before, and I went "hmmm. these situations were completely different from this one. maybe he's trying to emulate a different town meta that wasn't the one he emulated in marketplace?". I could see you taking particular issue with things if I just attacked you because lurking, but it's clear that's not what ended up happening at all.In post 4335, zMuffinMan wrote:riiiiight. so you see my lack of engagement in the game and instead of trying to understand why i'm not engaged, you think, "hmm, maybe muffin not looking town is something he's trying to do as scum because he likes not looking town as scum!"
I thought that BBQ's self-vote in the heat of the deadline pressure was a pretty solid town move, even if you discount his play before that point. Scum in his position would have things set up to where an SC mislynch was pretty much something that completely belonged to him, but instead he got pissy, early claimed (meaning he's fucked if scum PR and tracked somewhere, and also needs to be extraordinarily cautious about submitting NKs) and self-voted before other people pushed the SC lynch through for him. Did you really think that was coming from scum?In post 4352, Norlkaz wrote:BBQ?
I have no idea.In post 4389, BROseidon wrote:Cabd/ffery/GiF/Nacho/Desp?
How does this compare to how people responded to me in Xenogears for primarily pushing associative cases off of Mala?
This post is in a way rather unsettling.In post 4373, Cephrir wrote:Nah bro, I def think he's scum too. Outside chance of just retarded, but, probably scum. You can see that from when I originally voted him in the first place even if my reasons were kind of shitty.In post 4370, Generic wrote:See I have concerns about cephrir and I'm trying to decide exactly what it is.
The reads of the wagon are indeed consistent with his earlier reads, but it's exactly that sentence DOMO highlighted that pings something.
It's almost as if he had already determined how town the wagon was rather than the main thing being on a wagon should be, that you think the person is scum.
Yes you were asked for opinions of the players on that wagon, but you seemed to introduce whether the wagon was acceptably town enough.
I'm gonna scrutinise the arguement you had with SAD in a bit more detail to settle my mind on a few things, for now though I would rather the SAD wagon stays parked rather than accelerated.
not really. i must admit paying attention to sad's read progression on you wasn't high on my list of priorities this game (shocking, i know). but i'll take your word for it. when did you ask him about it?pieguy wrote:did you notice he did that with me too?
even if i did find people bitching at each other and creating noise super-exciting (strangely, i don't!), you're measuring my post count across christmas/new year's/a period of time when the site has been going down constantly for lengthy periods of time and calling it strange that i have less posts here than in another game. yeah...casso wrote:I will also note he got a hell of a lot more engaged a lot quicker in FEA (122 posts in 12 days there, 52 posts in 15 days here), which doesn't make sense because I can imagine this would be a game he would be more excited to get into
no, you didn'tcasso wrote:See, but I did try to understand why you weren't engaged
I measured to the 26th. Site downtime hasn't affected anyone else incredibly significantly, so I didn't think that it affected you that horribly. I think the difference is still important even when considering holidays.In post 4393, zMuffinMan wrote:you're measuring my post count across christmas/new year's/a period of time when the site has been going down constantly for lengthy periods of time and calling it strange that i have less posts here than in another game. yeah...
saying that you're being lurky and apathetic because your scum games usually aren't lurky and apathetic isn't a tinfoil argument at all. the only reason i brought up the marketplace argument was to show that you were pretty aware of your own meta.In post 4393, zMuffinMan wrote:all you're doing is making tinfoil arguments about why i could be scum and you're using a recent game where i intentionally manipulated my meta specifically to look town as a basis for fueling this argument
What more am I supposed to do?In post 4393, zMuffinMan wrote:you're not actually trying to understand anything or trying to discern my alignment in any way in this game
I was thinking more about the similarities in the calendar timeframe rather than the phase of the game.In post 4391, Casso the King of Seals wrote:Similarities - Muffin lazy in both.Differences are based mostly on context; in that game, he was replacing into a game with an absolutely massive Day 1, lots of loud obnoxious people floating around, town was already ridiculously town and the slot he replaced into was ridiculously town already. Here, he replaced in fairly early, there weren't so many obnoxious and loud people (just a bunch of loud people), and his slot was at a point where it needed to look town in order to narrow down options more. I will also note he got a hell of a lot more engaged a lot quicker in FEA (122 posts in 12 days there, 52 posts in 15 days here), which doesn't make sense because I can imagine this would be a game he would be more excited to get into
yeah, well i happen to have a very rare affliction that i'm pretty sure nobody else in this game suffers from, and i'm actually rather sensitive about it *sob* *sob*. the truth is... i'm australiancasso wrote:Site downtime hasn't affected anyone else incredibly significantly, so I didn't think that it affected you that horribly
when you think i'm scum for that reason alone, it is the very definition of a tinfoil argumentcasso wrote:saying that you're being lurky and apathetic because your scum games usually aren't lurky and apathetic isn't a tinfoil argument at all.
...casso wrote:What more am I supposed to do?
I post the same times you do a lot, and I'm not australian.In post 4396, zMuffinMan wrote:yeah, well i happen to have a very rare affliction that i'm pretty sure nobody else in this game suffers from, and i'm actually rather sensitive about it *sob* *sob*. the truth is... i'm australian
My original reason for you not being town was lack of towniness, no blazing glory. The "hey, muffin manipulates his meta so it's not inconceivable that he's doing so here" is a reason for you not being town because apathy.In post 4396, zMuffinMan wrote:when you think i'm scum for that reason alone, it is the very definition of a tinfoil argument
You hate the way I'm sorting you so much, but I don't see how I'm supposed to do better. For example, "figure out the reasons why you are lurking"? Am I supposed to track down your schedule, compare timestamps in Marketplace and FEA, then request site downtime and make an adjustment on calculations due to the holiday season? I don't believe the only acceptable answer is calling you town because apathy; it's a dumb reason to dismiss someone from being scum, just like you dismissing me because :effort: would be strange even though my play here already looks radically different from my play in Marketplace.In post 4396, zMuffinMan wrote:...
*shrug*casso wrote:no blazing glory
see, i'm not even suggesting that. i'd find it even odder if you had me as town for a weak reason like that. i'm calling your approach to reading me bullshit because you're not even thinking about it; you're not trying to assess things properly, you're just bullshitting your read on me.nacho wrote:I don't believe the only acceptable answer is calling you town because apathy
You keep repeating this but you've never explained why you think this.In post 4398, zMuffinMan wrote:i'm calling your approach to reading me bullshit because you're not even thinking about it; you're not trying to assess things properly, you're just bullshitting your read on me.