Micro 285 - Time: The Distortion (Town Win)

[Adaptive Heap]

Hello, catboi.

VOTE: Scumfuck

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

I'm here! Even though it's six bloody a.m.

So Scumfuck, are you two going to be imitooting each other exarctly?

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

Heh, I haven't really caught up with mastin, we have a handful of 'hai there' posts in our hydra QT and that's about it. I've decided to sign my posts because I'm embracing the hydra experience.

[Adaptive Heap]

And naturally in the same post I say that, I forget to sign. Nice.

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

Messiah might be town.
Scumfuck is a mild townread of mine.
catboi I've got a gut-townread on.

VOTE: Lucky2u.
Lucky, not so much.

One of masky/DOMO is likely scum; I lean towards DOMO.

I'll synch up with talah later.

[Adaptive Heap]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: DOMO

Not a very good post

Indeed. I must be psychic.
DOMO's not necessarily scum, but I'm definitely leaning that way

quite

strongly, now. Not as strongly as with Lucky, though.

You didn't like Lucky's post 14?

Nope! Didn't dislike that post, either, but certainly not a post to be liked. Lucky has at least one other post here so far. Three, in fact, and none of them particularly good.

[Adaptive Heap]

Why on both?

Well, I didn't like your opener, I've got townreads (albeit incredibly minor ones) on three other players, and that necessitates two scum in the remaining three. Add in your defense of Lucky2u whose content has been bad, and you're a decently-good scumread of mine.

[Adaptive Heap]

And bad = scummy? I don't intend to defend lucky, it's just that I can't see how you're getting a scum read from those posts.

In this case? Yes, I meant bad = scummy. Bad = bad != scummy, but Lucky's posts weren't bad = bad; they were scummy and I used the word bad. (That should be clear enough.)

And you are defending Lucky, whether you realize it or not.

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Why would you have a slight townread on catboi? He was first to post and then his next post is a vote for me for not liking my entry post.

I think he's a good bet for scum. Seems pretty lurky and oportunistic.

Catboi's posting has been miles more town than yours. I'll explain later.

Also, lol at lurky/opportunistic on first day of game opening, especially when catboi was among the first giving attempts at content and did so entirely separate of others.

[Adaptive Heap]

Unofficial Votecount 1.0(a)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAJIFFY

Scumfuck (1) - Lucky2u
DOMO (2) - catboi, Messiah Complex (L-2)
catboi (1) - DOMO
Lucky2u (1) - Adaptive Heap

Not voting (2) - Scumfuck, masky
7 alive, 4 to lynch.

Day 1 begins now and ends on Tuesday, Jan 21st at 8:00 PM Eastern Time

(expired on 2014-01-21 20:00:00)

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

Briefly regarding mastin's reads - seems we didn't need to sync at all.
I had Lucky down as questionable because the main effect of voting Scumfuck was to create a (second) L-2 wagon, but the content given in that post was pure RVS. The tone of the post seemed a bit exaggerated to me as well (as did DOMO's entrance, actually).

Messiah's initial vote obviously had some humour behind it. Scumfuck-ffery-head I know to not be a fan of RVS so no vote is nothing unusual - it might take me a bit more time to firm up a townread here but certainly feeling 'human'. catboi was the first poster (enthusiasm) and I thought we'd have good times voting down the list in sequence (which means, actually, that Messiah broke the pattern ^_-)

Hum, so yeah no masky yet - looking forward to that grand entrance!

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

I'll address DOMO tomorrow.

That post gave me a slight, though rough-edged townfeel.

Honestly, it felt like cheap fluff, one that could be posted in any Majiffy-modded game. (And very well might have been--that line feels way too familiar to me for it to be unique to this game.) Not scum, but not town, either--something he'd post regardless of his alignment.

His other posts, on the other hand, not so much.

I don't have a problem with people making quick reads on the basis of thin data as long as I can see they're still processing it when new data hits the thread.

Indeed. Awesome as it'd be, I sincerely doubt I nailed the scumteam in my first post. My best guess right now

is[/u] Lucky-Domo, based off of what I've got so far in the thread, but it's incredibly early in the game and my suspicions aren't exactly rock-solid.

@Mastin, is whatever it was that impeded direct conversation between us in that game also in play in this one?

Well given that I've been directly interacting with you a lot, I'd say no.

[Adaptive Heap]

The tone of the post seemed a bit exaggerated to me as well (as did DOMO's entrance, actually).

I don't really know how I'm supposed to defend against "exaggerated".

Why are you feeling so defensive? You're only at L-2 at the moment and the only other folks (aside from our slot) who've indicated they might want to lynch you, are already voting you.

Your entrance vote put mastin and I at L-1. I heard you when you said you had to do mental calculations on potential lylo tomorrow - I'm just surprised you didn't even think about the impact of a speedmislynch in such a small game. Or did you?

You are all giving me too much credit for my actions, both the people reading it town and scum. I don't think through anything and I just post impulsively.

Who is supposed to take credit for your actions, if not you? Who is the next best lynch after Scumfuck? (Seconding DOMO's question about reads or suspicions from your perspective)

Maybe when I get a copy of it, you guys can see me singing Blackstreet's "No Diggity" at karaoke last night.

Yes. Please. :D

Also what happened to Messiah - and where's masky?

@Mod - is masky being replaced?

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

Funny, I usually take 'totes' with the sarcastic interpretation.
Sorta like you yanks seem to think 'could care less' is a thing without the "NOT!" on the end.

So, like, I can't help but notice that your two votes have been trad-scumtell L-2 votes.
What's your motivation here?

[Adaptive Heap]

^@ Messiah re:

We are around. I haven't had a day off since last Thursday, so I am a bit behind in my readings. I believe Desp is working an equally shitty schedule.I have the next two days, and fiancé permitting, I should be able to provide some commentary on what's been happening. Unless we just lynch Domo first that is. Which could happen cause that guy is totes scum.

..and

-t

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I generally just assume the sibling-fucking. No need to go nuclear about the rest Mr Honky-Tonk.

Well I was most interested in your gleeful enthusiasm for a lynch. My own inclination is to be very careful about voting. It seems like you've already decided DOMO is scum.

Let's say we lynch DOMO in the next 5 minutes. What have we learned?

[Adaptive Heap]

FUCK

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

I don't care how far we got pushed in RVS. If there was a five-post speedlynch then if town doesn't insta-lynch the hammerer day 2 then town in this game has some problems.

You've voted twice and both have been second votes on top of an existing vote, that's accurate, right?

There was a sense of humour in your RVS vote which I liked, a sense of 'dark impending things' in your vote on DOMO, and I don't quite grok (hi Beli) this most recent post which *still* seems to be promoting a lynch as soon as possible.

I'll wait out the day asking every question I feel is relevant to get reads, communicate my preferences for lynch and the reasons, and ask for feedback. I'll be around 24 hours before deadline. At least for a window of a few hours.

Why do you want a lynch to happen right now?
If you're town, do you have any inclination to reason on this?
I mean, running someone up is not a thing in this game.

[Adaptive Heap]

Messiah-Fish:

In large games I've become a huge fan of running folks up - not necessarily to force a claim, but to see who joins wagons, when and why. However I tend to think in this game, that strategy will be of limited use because the maximum we could run people up to would be three votes anyway; coming from town, first votes will be suspicion-based; second votes will be either confirming that or added pressure; third votes well, that's L-1 with risk of hammer or pressure to claim. I get the feeling that the best way to play this game will be to consider votes pretty significant and also consider careful reasoned voting to be pro-town play.

I guarantee you that this slot won't be panic-voting.

Humorous intent (if it's genuine-feeling, which yours was) is something that tends town in RVS but can be manufactured relatively easily. It also doesn't guarantee that I'm therefore going to understand everything else you're saying. I'm interested in feeling out your slot a bit better, having previously played on non-town teams with both of you.

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

Hi Bert, Welcome.

How many times do you think Belisarius has posted or had influence on ffery's posts?

How are you feeling about catboi?

[Adaptive Heap]

*ahem*

-t

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^ I want to hear more from Bert but don't disagree with that part. Still like to hear a bit more from him though, and catboi too.

Couple of questions:

-Messiah - why the unvote? It doesn't seem to fit with your stated position.

-DOMO - so you think if Lucky is scum, he's definitely being bussed? I'm just trying to get my head around half of the stuff you're saying and am not really feeling a consistency or clear progression of thought. It feels like, to make sense, your play would need to be majority reaction-baiting, and I don't think that fits with 'defensive'.

I can elaborate some more if you want to talk about it - iPad, work and lazy right now.

-Lucky - why are you scumreading Scumfuck?

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

Yeah admittedly it's real early but to my eyes there's not much else to comment on.

I could always get my paranoia-walkin-gear on and start tunnelling Beli for a few pages if events aren't amusing enough?

I mean, you're right, things have been pretty somber around these parts. And mastin's disappeared so I'm sure he wouldn't even notice a handful of SDC posts.

Anyway, I'm around for an hour or so if anyone's up for chit-chat.

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

But that's half my problem. I'm freaking out in the back of my mind that Beli *enjoys* playing scum so much (well at least by reputation), that you two would make a pretty bloody formidable scumteam. Especially if you've got half the rapport you would appear to have from those QT grabs.

I think my paranoia started with your altslip if you're interested.

[Adaptive Heap]

To answer the last first, it was posts 18/19/20 followed shortly thereafter by the slip.

Post 19 looks like it's Beli attempting to jokily imitate you.

All the world's a stage.

I've been bloody well poring ISOs since this hydra was hatched.

But Post 20 looks like it was you clarifying that it was you imitating Beli?

Though beli's preference for the skin I use on my main almost ensures a fuckton of alt slips.

But the posts are only a minute apart, so it seems to me like they'd have to be from the same person.

So my mind got to wondering later if it was Beli who posted both of those (doing a near-perfect imitation of you, if so I must say, perhaps apart from the 'fuckton' bit) and if your altslip was intentional to cover something up.

Anyway, paranoia. Couple other things I might throw out too while I'm at it. I heart tinfoil.

[Adaptive Heap]

Oh, there was the 9 player game reference which was very quickly followed by your assumption that Day 2 may well be LYLO with a mislynch. Those two things didn't seem to match. The QT grab which also referred to that didn't seem as transparent as it could have been to me, but maybe that's just attitudinal. Myself I might tend to preface any clarification with 'THIS IS A CLARIFICATION' first. The offhanded reference seemed a bit sideways.

Can you explain how that came about?

ed: heheh

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both of those posts were me, not beli.

I was trying to imitate him. Interesting that it came off as an imitation of myself.

I associate you with poring isos, and Beli with the theatrical statements, so the one post was a bit conflicting.
(and also being out-of-nowhere humorous)

But okay, that seems the simpler explanation.

[Adaptive Heap]

Also, you should do a site search of "fuckton" and user fferyllt. Or just fuckton. I imagine my main and hydrae will show up pretty frequently.

Oh hell I'll do it myself.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?k ... mit=Search

Surprised there are only two by my main.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?k ... mit=Search

Rift uses the metric system.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... n#p5301047

Morph, too. The other fuckton examples are cabd.

Beli says it four times in FEA alone (and he also uses the metric system incidentally).
Maybe that's where I got the impression.

The one other thing that's bothering me is lack of coverage of slots from your hydra.
Although that's something I haven't fact-checked particularly well.
I did want to cover off who'd given opinions of who thus far. I thought maybe tonight but perhaps on the weekend.

It's 42 degrees C today and till the end of the week here. Fun.

[Adaptive Heap]

I actually didn't appreciate that we were starting the day at potentially day-before-MYLO until beli brought it up in the QT because it was making him feel pretty cautious about bandwagons. After the mention in our QT I referred to it in the thread. I'm not going to try and prove that because I think QT timestamps are a cheap and crappy form of evidence.

I'm not sure if this explains what you're concerned about.

Pretty much. Thanks.

[Adaptive Heap]

Lack of coverage of slots? You mean our reads? I figured my reads are implicit in my play in a game this size. I can certainly post my own reads at any time and I think beli and I are in agreement on them.

grr.

Nah that's okay. I'm not sure how productive exposing townreads would be with this setup, either. Interactions are more important.

THANK YOU FOR CONVERSING WITH ME AND ASSUAGING MY PARANOIA

I think Bert really does need to get in here and show he won't be a random element if he's town.
I liked the comfortability of his conversation with you from the outset but the silence is giving me the heebie-geebies.

[Adaptive Heap]

What gives you the impression that I'm random?

Entering the thread and voting Scumfuck and townreading Lucky without any reasoning for either, was pretty random.
Well actually I take that back - it was pretty much against the flow of the thread. Which was kind of random in a calculated way.

The random part I'll ascribe to wondering if we have a town sensible enough not to quickhammer that we could afford to push wagons to L-1 for at least a few days of this phase.

Are you that sensible man, Bert?

---

I'll just leave this here, too:

(expired on 2014-01-21 20:00:00)

-t
(out for tonight)

[Adaptive Heap]

I actually didn't appreciate that we were starting the day at potentially day-before-MYLO until beli brought it up in the QT because it was making him feel pretty cautious about bandwagons. After the mention in our QT I referred to it in the thread. I'm not going to try and prove that because I think QT timestamps are a cheap and crappy form of evidence.

I'm not sure if this explains what you're concerned about.

Not to be too much of a nitpicker, can I ask why you didn't immediately realise that it was 7p as soon as Lucky voted you? Or.. Was that after the QT mention from Beli?

And isn't tomorrow potentially LYLO if we mislynch today?

I think I need a stiff drink and to talk to ole trust-tell-Beli if you can give him a kick in the pants for me. I have quantum reads on you guys which is a combined state of 55% scum and 80% town depending on observation.

Also I'm going to make it my purpose in life to prompt someone to use "twee" correctly in a sentence.

[Adaptive Heap]

Just a quickie - I've got a server meltdown to deal with at work over the next couple of days probably so will be slightly limited access, but still around. Mastin's lurking around too

-t

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trust-tell-Beli

Melenkurion abatha,

Shiva, that is

cold

.

I'm loving the fact you can't tell which head is posting, though.

Spoiler: An easy guide

Me this game (with me as Galuf, and Ffery played by Mr. Z)






Hopefully that last bit isn't prophetic.

Ah the fresh breeze of Papa Beli's "fuck you kindly" (TM) brand humour.
I'm probably cheapening it by drive-by posting.. sorreh
I hope the reference was taken from Covenant, and not *whatever the hell Torchwood is*

And for some reason I though the fourteenth instalment of a game would have better graphics. Hm.

In this setup a snap hammer as scum is probably viable, but I honestly wasn't even thinking of the possibility when i voted there, and I doubt many people would be. Not really a great thing to draw a conclusion from.

In any setup a snap-hammer is viable - depending on the circumstances. But a person / player / hydra taking a couple of votes on-board, in a setup this small - and where that wagonee is absolutely not giving a crap and scumhunting elsewhere at the time - is *not* a viable snaphammer for scum. imho

UNVOTE:

VOTE: DOMO

Not a very good post

Ok this vote is actually quite significant, I didn't realise how much so at the time. Catboi took AH off L-1 here, meaning if AH is town scum couldn't snaphammer, which seems like a viable tactic in a micro. The other vote on AH other than mine was MC, so catboi I think can only be scum with AH or MC (or me I guess), otherwise he probably leaves his AH vote up for at least some time to see if his buddy hammers. Seeing as it looks like there's at least one between lucky and bert, I'm townreading catboi pretty hard based on this vote.

I'm down to lucky bert and MC, with MC easily the most town of the three.

AH scumfuck and catboi all looking good.

Can you give a brief rehash of why our slot and Scumfuck's slot are town please?
I can see you've given some reason for changing your read on catboi more recently, but your stance-switching has been pinging me pretty hard and I feel like you're towning players too readily and confidently for the wrong reasons.

[Adaptive Heap]

^eh.. Above was me.

Also @catboi because re-reading the comment I made seems a bit unclear - the two wagons were us and Scumfuck, and although I don't think scum would have gotten away with a quickhammer on either slot for the reason stated above, I was also lurking around at the time ready to unvote immediately should Scumfuck have been the slot that got to L-1 instead. It was just way too early for that, for my liking. So I get the unvote on an sympathetic level at least.

(expired on 2014-01-21 20:00:00)

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

Yeah I'm still awaiting mastin's explanation on why you're scum aside from gut. Although I had a very similar gut-scum reaction, I think it was to your delayed entry to the thread. And then the entry. And then several churning changes of heart. The only experience I've had with you has been in Oz where you were pretty interrogative and got a strut on at some point.

At the moment I just see you going - "eh, this person is probs town, that person is probs scum, no wait, the person who I thought was scum before is now town because *insert single post reason* etc.

There's a difference between gut-read or no reason, or the wrong (explicitly mentioned) reasons, too. I just think your reasons have seemed slipshod, not well thought-through, as if you're making them to echo majority sentiment.

The question ^above which you responded to was me, what you quoted after that was mastin ftr. I've been reasonably diligent in signing my posts, I think I dropped it during my convo with ffery for a bit.

Seriously you have Messiah as town? Why is that?

Anyway apologies if I seem crotchety, I've just knocked off after what's been effectively a 23 hour 'fix-the-fucking-production-servers' spree. On the upside it's Friday night and I fixed 'em :proud:

-t

ed: ^@DOMO

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Didn't DOMO post that? Or am I confubsed?

-t

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I think I'd like to know if lucky is generally this succinct as town or not.

You've still got two votes on you right? I find it baffling that both come with helpful serves of no reason.

btw lucky I thoroughly enjoy your username :D

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

Yeah sorry I'm going to call this the "with as slow as it is moving" scumtell.

Conflictingly enough, I agree we need to start making some movements. Perhaps you'll feel comfortable enough to vote your scumreads now then Messiah?

VOTE: Messiah Complex

(I'll ping the holy qt. All I've got recently is haven't seen ffery-scum and only seen Bert in maelstrom situations.)

Spoiler: Short Youtube Spoiler

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

You call us out for being overeager and bloodthirsty, then you call us out for being conservative. Are you just trying to bait us into voting for Lucky right now to put him at l-1?

If nothing else happens I might ultimately do that, but I am scumreading you guys because of the way you dropped your vote.

First you disagreed that wagonning as a strategy wasn't the best play. You say you want wagons to analyze.

We want a wagon and some legitimate reactions to analyze. Sitting around with our thumbs up our ass with no wagon at L-2 sounds dead fucking boring to us.
Of course
We disagree

Then in the very same post you unvote.

I think a couple of things are in play then. One is that this is a brand new hydra, and we're figuring out how we're going to work together.

Ffery is town.

Reads (Towniest-Scummiest):

catboi
Scumfuck
Adaptive Heap
DOMO
Bert
Lucky

Unvote

- Des

And now you're twisting about calling *me voting you* scummy where you've not mentioned anything before.

So yeah I'd say I'm happy with my current vote, and I'd encourage others to join me in a lovely protracted L-1 analysis wagon and we'll get that data you've been after.

[Adaptive Heap]

Can you show where we actually mention your vote at all, or are you cool with leaving this misrep hanging out on that ledge all alone?

Sure.

Here's where I vote you:

Yeah sorry I'm going to call this the "with as slow as it is moving" scumtell.

Conflictingly enough, I agree we need to start making some movements. Perhaps you'll feel comfortable enough to vote your scumreads now then Messiah?

VOTE: Messiah Complex

(I'll ping the holy qt. All I've got recently is haven't seen ffery-scum and only seen Bert in maelstrom situations.)

Spoiler: Short Youtube Spoiler

-t

And here's where you call me scummy:

Conflictingly enough, I agree we need to start making some movements. Perhaps you'll feel comfortable enough to vote your scumreads now then Messiah?

I can't get over how disingenuous this is.

- Des

...unless 'disingenuous' actually means 'townish'.

Hm?

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And you appear to be saying that calling someone disingenuous, isn't calling them scummy, and at the same time saying it's scummy.

Like that's not even a mindset. Either I'm scummy, I'm not scummy, or you are conflicted.

Either way, what's the max votes you've had on you and why are you so worried about one vote if our slot is so scummy?

Who else will vote do you think?

Dude(s) you're better as town than this, I'm sure. One vote with legitimate concerns. Insta-flail.

[Adaptive Heap]

You say "things will be boring if we don't have wagons to analyse"

You then promptly remove yourself from wagons to analyse, and never push a wagon.

In fact didn't you remove yourself from the DOMO wagon when you unvoted?

[Adaptive Heap]

Are you fucking kidding me?

I directly quoted that in post 220.

And you're asking me if I'm reading *the specific posts of yours that caused me to have a scumread on you*

Tell you what, I can actually reference a game where Thor calls out scum for this specific behaviour. And I take some decent amount of time telling him that the specifics of the person are more important.

Apparently protip: they're not, and unless you start shitting golden eggs of townmotivation, I have no reason to move this vote.

The problem:

-> says wagons are pro-town, no wagons are boring
-> disagrees that this specific game means wagons should be treated cautiously
-> unvotes scumread who is under little pressure at the time
-> does nothing with vote, pushes no wagon, never re-votes
-> *someone else moves vote onto MC*
-> can't see the town motivation
-> immediately votes in retaliation even though *three more votes are needed to lynch*

[Adaptive Heap]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32386

Newbie game. I flaked due to external circumstances. But not before defending the crap out of the player who did exactly the same thing. Saying something's pro-town when he did it, and then failing to recognise it as pro-town when someone else does it.

All these posts tonight are mine btw.

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

Okay then. Back to lucky.

VOTE: lucky2u

I'll just note, Des, that me shifting votes from lucky, to you (pun unintended but nice), put him back on L-3 with only one vote.

And now, coffee.

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

Lucky & Bert really both need to get in here and post readslists.

Messiah, if you're through being wrong and boldcaps ranting then you'll realise that if mastin & I don't get nightkilled tonight, we're probably scum, since it's clear you're not protecting us and well *mastin*.

Also we're entering the edge of that panic-voting stage if we don't figure out the best lynch for today. I can do either Bert or lucky today. mastin said he'd take a look at the thread today too. I feel a bit weird paraphrasing most of the info in our hydra QT but it's honestly not much.

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

Incidentally ffery, I haven't meta-dived you in any sense but I just have a feeling that I could tell the difference between your motivations as town or scum having played in a game or so with you and reading a few others you've been in. It's Beli that has me antsy and I have looked at a scumgame or two of his for *reasons*. Still nothing that outweighs a generally town vibe from you.

DOMO seems to have come good-ish, at least isn't hesitating on explanations and input

catboi's alright but I wish he would post more since most people are townreading him

Someone really needs to step up and take the lead I think. I hate feeling like I have that role.

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

Go back and re-read the fucking setup will you.

Scum have a roleblocker, town have a macho cop and a doc.

Admittedly it's only the case if we *don't* lynch scum today, but *if* we don't, the best scum play is to roleblock the doc (if they claim like idiots at L-2 with fuck-all pressure and no other currently stated support for a lynch) and shoot among the remaining unknowns trying to hit the cop.

-t

[Adaptive Heap]

Admittedly it's only the case if we *don't* lynch scum today, but *if* we don't, the best scum play is to roleblock the doc (if they claim like idiots at L-2 with fuck-all pressure and no other currently stated support for a lynch) and shoot among the remaining unknowns trying to hit the cop.

No shit sherlock. That's why your spec doesn't seem genuine--why assume a mislynch? And then bet your alignment on it?

I've assumed that mastin (and therefore our slot) would be the Night 1 nightkill target ever since we rolled town. I didn't think about how radically scumlynch/mislynch would alter likely night-action outcomes with the doc claim on the table, just had the initial thought that your claim would probably see you through to Day 2, and that there was no reason for the real doc to not claim should you be fakeclaiming. I only thought about the different outcomes in a bit more detail as I was typing post 263. I guess I'm naturally a worst-case-scenario kind of guy.

[Adaptive Heap]

Ok I can see AH/bert scum. At the end of page 1, AH announces there's scum between me and masky (bert), the two people yet to post, and he's leaning me. I then make my opening posts, and AH doesn't like them. Fair enough, but when bert enters with a scumfuck vote, AH welcomes him. MC's theory that AH was goading him into an L-1 vote for bert to hammer is reasonable, although I wouldn't call it compelling. Bert would get snaplynched tomorrow and AH might have to defend himself against accusations of goading MC into voting lucky, so it would be a risky scum strategy. I can see it though because I believe AH would feel confident enough as scum that they would be able to fend off the arguments.

I understand the concept of taking out the strongest scum. But I think that's outweighed by the uncertainty factor and that we should go for who would be the weakest townie as a damage limitation exercise. I think if AH is town he'll process night information better than a town bert, a bert townflip means we can reassess AH, while a bert scumflip means it's highly likely that AH gets lynched tomorrow, regardless of how strong he is as scum.

So while I can see bert/AH scum, I stand by my comment that bert is best for today.

This post really rankles with me DOMO.

I don't know why you reiterate Messiah's assumption that I was 'goading them into an L-1 vote', when what I was specifically doing was 'goading them into an L-2 vote with the threat that I would put Lucky at L-1'. I did this in an attempt to sort Messiah and find out what the hell was up with the wagon analysis/no voting contradiction.

It feels a bit like you're trying to steer today's lynch off Lucky by way of presenting our slot and Bert as the two alternatives.

So - are you townreading Lucky now? Or do you just have a stronger scumread on our slot?

---

So here's the deadline:

(expired on 2014-01-21 20:00:00)

And what I plan to do barring mastin's triumphant game-breaking return, is to put some faith in my read on Scumfuck and sheep them onto their preferred lynch for today, at least if they're thinking one of Lucky or Bert.

-t (above post is me too)

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I can understand unsheeping later but that's not what he was talking about.

I added my preferred lynches for today to that sentence, to advance my own opinion and as a sign of good faith that I am happy to compromise on either. Also to be quite conscise that I wouldn't be self-voting, nor voting Messiah, nor catboi. I am unsure about DOMO again.

My current thinking is that both scum are in the holy trinity of you, Bert and DOMO. However I think it's more than slightly possible that you and Bert are scum together which makes lynching between you the best move for today.

What else did you think I was talking about - and how does asking for input and expressing flexibility read as scummy to you?

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Your logic being that I intended to strong-arm you into making an L-2 vote on Lucky, so that I could put Lucky at L-1, so that Bert could hammer, with four days left on the clock.

I'm seriously losing patience for this game.

Let me ask you this, *if* we lynch Bert and he flips town, who will you be looking at for scum?

-t

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No worries. I'll be around in time to switch if that's the decision.

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Do you usually ignore reasonable questions in favour of your own stubborn-headed hurt pride because

I fucking voted you and attacked you?

I don't even know what you're asking. You seem to deny the fact that *you fucked up* by assuming your vote would be an L-1 vote and have no intention of taking that on the chin and updating your mental map because of it.

Now you have DOMO and lucky both going along with a faulty argument - and you're sitting back grinning like a fucking lemur patting DOMO on the back - who *sheeped me out of nowhere onto voting you* and being buddied by Lucky *who's lurked the entire day out acting cutsie and tried to jump onto a panic-lynch which you explicitly wanted to avoid*.

For all I know Bert is scum. I don't really care. I felt okay about his entry-push on Scumfuck because it *felt* natural - and that's it. So by all means, you have the game worked out, good job, so why don't you

answer the fucking question about *what happens if Bert flips town*

, so if I'm alive tomorrow in that scenario I don't have to deal with you thinking you can switch back into confbias, with me with another theoretical scum-partner, just because you don't like the fact I pushed on you.

So I hope you're fucking right about Bert. And if you are, you can feel free to spend your day convincing everyone that I'm scum, cool. I might even consider a self-vote just for shits and giggles.

-t

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I think I'm still comfortable leaving it in Scumfuck's hands in order to defray Messiah's suspicion, but prefer Bert over Lucky now.

Couple of adjustments for the last page or so:-
DOMO is looking a lot more town than I gave him credit for, and LOL LAST VOTECOUNT
And no I don't believe the claim, for one thing the statement "Macho cop is normal cop" doesn't make sense (in and of itself, but also) because he should have been thinking he'd be the protect with a doc in the setup and claimed sometime before now, possibly in his first post, or at least considered it and had something to say about how damn overpowered town was.

At least those are my thoughts first thing in the morning.

-t

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I was a cop in a past game (Newbie 1438). That is my only past experience as cop.

Interesting that you say this. Because that's the point really, isn't it.

If you were a cop in a newbie game you would have had to think about things like whether or not there was also a doc in the setup, and if so there would have been a roleblocker, in which case you'd be looking at this game and going 'wtf, seven players with the same setup as a 9p newbie?' But you're not.

Anyway I'll be around for an hour or two and I think deadline is mid-morning tomorrow for me so might be around then too.

also I'm more open to lynching AH now because of PoE stuff

PoE how pl0x.

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Actually it'll be 12pm here I think.

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Okay so I'm logging off for now and am going to unvote since Bert is my preferred lynch today.

I'll still respect a decision from Scumfuck and be back in time to replace the vote if needed, but voting Lucky right now doesn't feel like the right thing to be doing.

UNVOTE:

-t

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DO NOT LYNCH BERT UNLESS THERE IS A COUNTER CLAIM. IF YOU CC BERT, DO IT TODAY SO WE GET A GUARANTEED SCUM LYNCH TIA~

A counterclaim shouldn't be needed.

VOTE: Bert.

See, talah's basically 100% convinced Bert's scum. I'm not 100%, but I am 95%.

yup

AH is scum

- Des

Nope! You're not scum either, though. There's basically one scum between DOMO/Scumfuck/catboi/Lucky2u. I'm still doing my analysis, but catboi seems town to me (and talah), and talah likes DOMO for town (I sorta lean that way) and Scumfuck is probably town so I'm thinking that Lucky2u is scum as well.

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We don't see bert and lucky as a viable scumteam, btw. One or the other. There are several reasons for this. One is the conviction that bert's town. If bert is town, then Lucky-scum goes up a notch. The other reason for thinking they aren't scum together is that I can't really picture the scum-sense in both of them parking their vote on us for as long as they did if they're a scumteam.

Problem with that is that Bert's almost certainly scum and Lucky's the only viable candidate we have right now.

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Also, I have to say, contrary to Scumfuck's analysis, Bert and Lucky2u

really

look like scumbuddies.

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That said, though, my ranking system for town players right now has it be something like
Messiah Complex
DOMO/Scumfuck
Scumfuck/DOMO (fairly interchangeable, but Domo seems town and I don't think his interaction with Bert is scum-scum)
catboi.

Catboi's pretty damn town-looking, just that I feel the others are more town.

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Talah's probably going to yell at me for placing Bert at L-1 so he could do that.
Butyeah, there you go.

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So mastin and I have managed to have the briefest of discussions overnight.

This is our current status:

Messiah is doc
Scumfuck is town
DOMO is probably town
catboi is likely town

VOTE: Lucky2u

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You're not gonna wait to see who the doc saved?

Assuming scum didn't get copped, we have cop, his clear, doc, and doc's clear, right? Why you so eager?

Unless you think Messiah docced Lucky, then no, I don't think an L-3 vote on the most likely remaining scum is hasty.
We obviously need discussion today, however.

Anyway Messiah can out his target as he sees fit. A Day 1 scumlynch puts the other scum in an uncomfortable position to the point that no-killing for wifom might not be a terrible play. Probably not, but maybe.

-t

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I can prove it wrong right now.

As I've mentioned several times, I was voting for Lucky before I moved my vote onto you.

Scumfuck (L-2): Lucky2u, Bert
Lucky2u(L-2): Adaptive Heap, catboi
Bert (L-3): DOMO

Not Voting: Scumfuck, Messiah Complex
7 alive, 4 to lynch.

Yeah sorry I'm going to call this the "with as slow as it is moving" scumtell.

Conflictingly enough, I agree we need to start making some movements. Perhaps you'll feel comfortable enough to vote your scumreads now then Messiah?

VOTE: Messiah Complex

(I'll ping the holy qt. All I've got recently is haven't seen ffery-scum and only seen Bert in maelstrom situations.)

Spoiler: Short Youtube Spoiler

-t

Is that up to date? Ok thanks

Official VC

Scumfuck (L-2): Lucky2u, Bert
Messiah Complex (L-2): Adaptive Heap, DOMO
Lucky2u(L-3): catboi
Adaptive Heap (L-3): Messiah Complex


Not Voting: Scumfuck
7 alive, 4 to lynch.

I'm back now, you can resume your typical playing behavior.

Does anyone need prods? Let me know.

So.. yeah. The theory you're running with would have required me to trick you into voting Lucky-town (putting him at L-2), then vote Lucky-town myself (to get him to L-1), then have Bert hammer (which would have been a scumclaim anyway). And I would have been *on* the wagon anyway, in pretty funky-looking circumstances.

My intent was to get a read on you, and to get things moving at that point in the game.

-t

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Talah, stop being an idiot.

I just ran the math.

The scum could not afford to no-kill. Thus, the catboi protect confirms catboi.
Messiah's doc claim is uncountered. Thus, they are town.
Scumfuck is town because of our result.
That leaves Lucky2u and DOMO as the only possible scum.

We lynch one, and if they flip town, lynch the other.

If that wasn't explicit enough,

Claim: Cop with an innocent on Scumfuck.
Confirm VOTE: Lucky2u.

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Sorreh Sir :(

If'n I was scum, I might no-kill, is all.

*hangdog*

-t

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It was mastin's idea actually, I was pretty happy (and ambivalent) with investigating the least likely to die of Lucky, DOMO and catboi (which would probably have ended up Lucky if I'd had my druthers), and giving you and Beli the benefit of Shaheed's law. Initially.

But thinking about it with Messiah outed it made more sense to confirm you as town. (I actually assumed Messiah would be nk'd.)

After mastin suggested it (cheeky bugger PMd the mod while I was asleep anyway), the way my thinking ran on that was that we had one mislynch and therefore Lucky would be lynched today regardless, using it if necessary. But if we were to confirm either of DOMO or catboi as town then the remaining unconfirmed players would be you guys and one of the other two. It's better that you guys make the decision if it comes down to it - the other part of where I went was that if you were playing a scumgame then whoever was left out against you would almost certainly lose. So it made sense to keep the most balance possible among unconfirmed, too.

MASTIN I WANTED TO CLAIM
YOU BASTARD

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Shouldn't you be voting DOMO or something, Lucky?

:S

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Wowee. That lack of a kill kinda broke things considering it 'cleared' someone who was town.. without having actually cleared him. But.. yeah well anyway *rubs sleep put of eyes*

Formality I guess
VOTE: DOMO