Survivor Review Board: Discussion


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Post Post #26 (isolation #0) » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:56 pm

Post by Jal »

This is a community decision. The majority of this conversation and decision making on this issue
should not
be done in Skype calls, and especially no decisions of any kind should take place without it having been presented and discussed on these boards where everyone can see. Otherwise, we're going to be excluding the majority of the community who have a right as any other person to have a say in this. This community is already suffering from its own cliques.

Secondly, I don't believe any actual "review boarding" should officially be taking place until any idea has been given a green light, and a definition of what a review board is and what criteria they will be deciding upon is established. If we don't do this, then the reviewing of games are going to come down to one person's subjective opinion of how they believe they should review the games and in what way games should be judged, which is all too subjective. What you may think should qualify, might go against my own ideas and the majority of other people's opinions. It takes any meaning out of what is being discussed here.

Now onto the problem of Survivor games themselves. I don't see the problem Xof is highlighting in Survivor games. Not enough effort or caring put into the game? How so? What qualifies as effort and what qualifies as enough effort or giving up on caring? What games in particular are you talking about, or is it just Bahamas? Greece? Summertime? Arkham? I don't think "effort" or "caring" is what the problem is for most of these games. Bahamas itself I think mainly suffered from a game plan (2 tribes then to merge) which didn't give it as much of a competitive edge, a repeat of a challenge, and a community that went sour which then put an overcast on the rest of the game. I haven't been in or spectated a game where the issue came down to, "oh hey, they obviously had no challenge thought up here" or that anything was majorly delayed because some post wasn't already made, or the mods stopped caring. Neither did Bahamas.

Most issues stem from mod issues of not being on in time, not knowing how to work the boards properly, and either mod flaking or not having a co-mod or back-up mod available to pick up slack or help run the game more smoothly.
These are issues seen in Arkham, Summertime, and Greece.
The other set of issues which was highlighted in Arkham, is whether the integrity of Survivor games themselves are being upheld.
Arkham had a mod account which had a pre-determined time to be executed and at least one challenge where the outcome was decided beforehand. That stuff should not be allowed to exist in a Survivor game.

In general, I believe the main issues the community is having are games running smoothly, and on a lesser note, containing challenges some oomf put into them. Maybe it should be less of a review board, but putting down actual written standards about games themselves. Enforce a co-mod or two. A back-up mod. An active back-up mod. That is how you solve the issue of caring.

Regarding Xalxe's question, I think it would depend on the reviewer and mods themselves. I'd be more intrigued by a game from a new player reviewed by someone like Kloud, than a game ran by a regular mod reviewed by some old time regular. Nowadays, I'm more worried about getting into a game that will actually complete and in a timely manner though. For example, I would not have joined Amazing Race if it weren't both Xalxe and CC both running it. This is the area that needs the most attention.

Edited to refine my point.
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Post Post #28 (isolation #1) » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:54 pm

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On the discussion of mods making a good commitment to their games, we must also assure that players are striving to reach the same level of commitment themselves. If the mod is putting the effort into their games and the players aren't, the community still suffers.

Many Mish Mash games have stalled or stopped altogether because players don't get back to pms in a timely manner, don't participate in game challenges, take long stretches of time absent, or flake from the game entirely. The mod ultimately is left there trying to pick up the pieces where the player-base has failed them, and by the time the problem has become apparent and a plan of action is put into motion to find a solution or a replacement, the game's momentum has crashed and its integrity possibly fallen. This results in a loss of interest from the other players and things just go downhill from there. Talking about Survivor games specifically, this was very notable in Survivor: Mass Effect which was plagued by people leaving, quitting, flaking, and not voting.

By helping formalize the commitments both between the players and the mods, it will help nurture a culture of upholding these commitments. Because of these two issues, it's feeding into a large atmosphere of negativity which has been increasingly damaging games and the community. By encouraging this process to be about a commitment from the mod and respect from the player, you're approaching it from a positive way.
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Post Post #33 (isolation #2) » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:35 pm

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There is a difference between crazy and bastard. You crossed the line.
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Post Post #48 (isolation #3) » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:10 pm

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What are the challenges that are being used time and time again that you find annoying? I don't care about creativity challenges, but more so because it requires judges of some sort and is very subjective. You can put a whole lot of effort into them and pretty much go no where. Like, seriously who would give green ship in Mass Effect 5/5 in functionality for their printer?!?! :P

Outside of the essay in Bahamas, can you note what other creativity challenges had people not submitting? I think that challenge mainly suffered from the mood falling in previous challenges than that challenge itself being the culprit for bringing the mood down in the game.

Also note, that some people just feel differently about the type of challenges. I think you mentioned you would like to do the essay challenge in Bahamas and Xof obviously did, but that is a challenge I wouldn't want to go near and hated every incarnation I've seen. Klick liked the challenge maker reward in Bahamas, but I don't like the look of it myself. This is why it's the mod's prerogative to judge what they want to add to their game. What I'm getting at here, is that if you reviewed a game, you would condemn certain challenges while another reviewer would take issue with different challenges based on the fun factor. That is why that if there is a reviewer, it shouldn't be focusing in on subjective judgement on challenges and twists and what makes them fun.
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Post Post #50 (isolation #4) » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:21 pm

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Summertime's fashion thingy at least
Rats, there goes my
Renly's Wardrobe
challenge idea!

Arkham's story challenge dealio had 24 people involved, so two non-submissions I don't think it's that big of a deal. As I said, not a fan of judging things in general, but I don't know if the activity factor is the main issue concerning those type of challenges.
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