Survivor Review Board: Discussion


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Post Post #1 (isolation #0) » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:23 am

Post by Xalxe »

And I'm gonna critique it here because I feel like if it's gonna happen a) I'm putting on my official hat when talking about it and b) it should be discussed. If it gets out of hand I'll split these posts off.

*puts on official!Koopa hat*

Consulting my slightly out-of-date list of Survivor games, I'd like to cite some statistics at you all. First of all, we are currently in the best period for Survivor games in site history from a moderation standpoint (if you wanna talk player standpoint I'm gonna have to take off my official hat because HOO BOY WORDS). We have not had an abandoned game since mastermind's Survivor: Two Worlds in summer of 2012, which means we're nearly or almost at a year and a half with no abandonment. We're also at probably the highest rate of new moderation; of the first five completed games, four were Blackberry, and while our repeat rate is not that high (off the top of my head, currently active users who have run multiple games are myself, Nicholas1024, animorpherv1 and Snakes), we're still getting fresh blood at a great rate--provided that new things keep happening in games.

Now let's look at game quality (again, moderation only). I'm going to ignore Greece simply because I can't evaluate that objectively, and for historical sake I'm ignoring this too for the most part. I believe that there's only one past game that people truly say was awful, and I'll let Nick tell you which it is. That's one awful game, one iffy one if we want to talk about Bahamas already, and one abandoned game since early 2011 (Botswana), nearly three years ago. I'm going to officially go on record here:
I don't think bad games are enough of a problem as of yet to warrant drastic action in the form of an official review committee.


Now that I've said that, let me add a caveat:
if you're going to run any large game, not just Survivor, it never ever hurts to get it reviewed.
A fresh set of eyes does so much for games. Send it to me1, hit someone else up, whatever.

Now, in terms of advice that I'll give anybody who wants to run anything ever, I personally feel that the Survivor market is very stale. One of the reasons I did Redemption Island in Greece was so that there would be something new in the game, and I think that when you're designing any game, one of the first things you should ask is "What am I bringing to the table that's new?" (tooting my own horn for a moment) Kingdom Clash was conceived because kloud and I wanted a format that was new. It went over pretty well; a KC2 may happen someday. Amazing Race happened because I wanted something fast-paced and a Race had never finished before. Greece had Redemption and the tribe breakdown from 2 to 4 simply because they'd never been done before. These kinds of things are what we need here. I'm not saying don't do Survivors, I'm saying that at this point if you're gonna do them, you need to do them good and you need to do something new.

Well that got away from where I meant it to but that's okay.

1(I'm an especially good choice; the most I'm going to do until the fall player-side is small games)
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Post Post #3 (isolation #1) » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:55 am

Post by Xalxe »

In post 1142, Drench wrote:(also re challenges, if you let me just smoke this cigarette and go all sotto voce on you all while sitting on a stool with one leg going over the other, i think it's time for the scopey timed challenge renaissance we've all been waiting for)
Drench, I love you and I think you're the only one on this crusade so please stop it.
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Post Post #5 (isolation #2) » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:11 am

Post by Xalxe »

I think we're on different levels here because my definition of "timed challenge a la Kscope" is posting shit endlessly for hours, am I wrong?
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Post Post #7 (isolation #3) » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:16 am

Post by Xalxe »

I consider both equally not-good but this is a personal preference here and I'm not going to wave my modwand and impose sanctions unless someone breaks site rules and/or votes me out.
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Post Post #15 (isolation #4) » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:36 am

Post by Xalxe »

For transparency's sake, I would prefer that most discussion occurs here simply because not everyone has Skype and I'd like to have some things on the record. For example, I'll probably be dumping my current convo with xof here or elsewhere at some point.
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Post Post #18 (isolation #5) » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:52 am

Post by Xalxe »

In post 17, Klick wrote:Well this looks like a fun conversation.

I'm probably not very qualified to have much of an impact in this discussion, but I'm going to leave an egopost here.
Okay then here's a question to a "layman," as it were: If a game had a review board stamp on it, would you care? If a game didn't have it, would you care?

(anybody can answer this btw)

(hello the koopa is playing the bad guy here what fun)
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Post Post #60 (isolation #6) » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:45 pm

Post by Xalxe »

Okay so this went boom overnight and I think a lot of my issues maybe aren't issues anymore, which is nice. I'm going to sit tight for a bit I think, but I feel that this can be solved without going against the mandate that I've been operating under for the past however long I've had my job.
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Post Post #67 (isolation #7) » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:44 pm

Post by Xalxe »

Alright, this has gone quiet so I'm going to put the Koopamod hat back on and propose a really simple solution: from now on, any large game, whether it be Survivor, Big Brother, or a new format must be either reviewed by somebody who is not playing or should have a co-moderator. Reviewers should be listed in the OP of any game threads as having signed off on the final version of the game. I think that if that policy is put into place, it'll help alleviate concerns that people have.

Topics for discussion:
- Can you, at any point, circumvent this process if you have proven you don't suck at things?
- Should any new idea be reviewed, even if it's not a large game? Example: I have a new board game I'd like to run, should someone be required to review it?
- Should there be some "approved" list of reviewers, or is a review accepted from anybody (at players' discretion, naturally)?
- Should I prevent a game from running until it has a review?
- Should I have a "naughty list" of mods who should maybe have a second reviewer, or is that just me being an elitist fuck?

Discuss.
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Post Post #70 (isolation #8) » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:43 am

Post by Xalxe »

In post 69, RichardGHP wrote:If there isn't already a rule to this effect, mods who have been known to flake should require a co-mod for any new games. However, I think that's where the regulation should end.
While that may not be a rule I think it's something the community tries to enforce (which is really how I'd like things to be run)
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Post Post #79 (isolation #9) » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:20 pm

Post by Xalxe »

I think the definition is pretty subjective, but in general I'd consider a large game anything that takes a player considerable time and effort beyond simply posting in a thread once in a while.
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Post Post #81 (isolation #10) » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:18 am

Post by Xalxe »

In post 80, Klick wrote:a month or more
I don't like this caveat, board games can take that long and I don't think they need to have a co-mod.
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Post Post #87 (isolation #11) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:34 pm

Post by Xalxe »

A wild Chev appeared 3 days ago, Shii.
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Post Post #88 (isolation #12) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:37 pm

Post by Xalxe »

Also I hadn't forgotten about this Chev, I was just waiting. Like I did the last time.

But since you've forced my hand *dramatic lightning*

If there are no further objections, I will institute the rule that any large-scale game (as basically determined by me because hard and fast rules are too restrictive) must have at least one review by someone else who has run a large-scale game or a co-moderator with experience. This rule will take effect for any game beginning February 1st if I hear no objections.
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Post Post #91 (isolation #13) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:59 pm

Post by Xalxe »

In post 90, animorpherv1 wrote:Large games are typically advertised anyways - so long as Xalxe checks the main thread, he should be OK.
This, plus if something goes up that wasn't advertised beforehand I'll just nudge the mod to get a review. Nothing intensive or anything, just me keeping half an eye on things.
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Post Post #93 (isolation #14) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:06 pm

Post by Xalxe »

In post 92, kdowns wrote:You whore never responding to PMs.

I had a different idea in mind.
Care to share?
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Post Post #96 (isolation #15) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:52 pm

Post by Xalxe »

In post 95, Nyalite wrote:I don't think the size of the game should be the qualifying factor. The reason (in my mind) survivors were singled out for review is because there is a 6 month queue to run them. What happens in one game effects the 18-24 players who are playing it, but also the 3 or more games down the line and their 20ish players each.
Size isn't my factor, it's basically player commitment. The Arena took a month and had 16 players. Big Brothers typically have 11-12 players. I'd have both reviewed.
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Post Post #98 (isolation #16) » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:00 pm

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Hearing no further objections, this rule will go into effect once I can edit the OP of the List.
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Post Post #100 (isolation #17) » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:45 am

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