NY 168: (GAME OVER) The Mod is Dead, Fire and Ice Edition

Bulbazak · Post Post #16 (isolation #0) » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:37 pm

/confirm

Bulbazak · Post Post #35 (isolation #1) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:57 am

@Mod: Does this game actually have fire and ice mechanics, or are the names purely flavor?

Vote YuniChikako

Bulbazak · Post Post #41 (isolation #2) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:14 am

In post 38, Maxous wrote: I'm serious about being suspect of Arc Angel for taking so long to confirm and start the game btw

Why is this an indication of her being scum and not an indication of her being busy?

Bulbazak · Post Post #48 (isolation #3) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:57 am

In post 42, Maxous wrote:because it would take a minute? less?

What about all those who confirmed after or haven't confirmed yet?

In post 44, mastin2 wrote:If this game was advertised as being multiscum, I never read enough to have caught that, but now that we're here, it's clear that it is.

Fire & Ice is in the title. I think it's pretty clear it's multiball.

In post 44, mastin2 wrote: and, yes, I am town; I kinda townslipped in my last post accidentally so I'm basically going to be rambling the whole game

Townslip? Where?

In post 44, mastin2 wrote: Still, though, if this Fire and Ice game is like the open

It isn't. I just checked. The kills won't cancel each other out.

In post 44, mastin2 wrote: Don't expect anything stellar, though. Last time, I got good because I replaced in. I'm a far more mediocre player when playing from the start, and only elevate to scumhunting-pseudo-god when replacing in or after enough time has passed that I can mimic the effect. Basically, when playing from the start, I've got a switch flipped to the off position, called "sheep me". Right now, "sheep me" is flipped off; you shouldn't be doing it. When I get my head into the game, I'll let you know when the switch has been flipped and you should follow.

It's nice to know you've set the bar so low...

Bulbazak · Post Post #52 (isolation #4) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:04 am

In post 51, Maxous wrote:
In post 48, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 42, Maxous wrote:because it would take a minute? less?
What about all those who confirmed after or haven't confirmed yet?
Pere and Mastin did'nt post since thursday before today. (I assume v/la)
I assume the other 2 are'nt playing.
Anyone I missed?

My point is that it's a null behavior, since activity is not alignment indicative.

Bulbazak · Post Post #57 (isolation #5) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:08 pm

In post 54, JKLM wrote:VOTE: Bulba

Based on vote placement.

Explain.

In post 55, mastin2 wrote:
In post 48, Bulbazak wrote:Townslip? Where?
Here. It's there if you know where to look. Once I posted that, I knew I shouldn't have posted it, 'cause it made me obvtown AGAIN, meaning I'm dead in the first two nights regardless of how accurate my reads are.

How is that a townslip?

Bulbazak · Post Post #60 (isolation #6) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:13 pm

In post 59, JKLM wrote:4th vote on a ten vote required wagon is scummiest spot as it signifies the start of a wagon.

I was planning on voting him anyway. That's just when I happened to come in.

Bulbazak · Post Post #61 (isolation #7) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:14 pm

Is there a reason why you think Yuni is town?

Bulbazak · Post Post #63 (isolation #8) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:18 pm

JKLM, if I was scum, I would have avoided that wagon like the plague.

Bulbazak · Post Post #65 (isolation #9) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:26 pm

In post 64, JKLM wrote:No you wouldn't. As town you would have.

Why? I agree with Garmr's reasons for voting Yuni. Why would I jump on that wagon as scum, but not as town? Since when are you an expert on my scum game? Oh, and you haven't answered this:

In post 61, Bulbazak wrote:Is there a reason why you think Yuni is town?

Bulbazak · Post Post #78 (isolation #10) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:13 pm

In post 68, YuniChikako wrote:just the thought of him being inno forms a pit in my stomach.

Why?

In post 68, YuniChikako wrote: Plus, why in the world is he voting Arc, of all people?

I'm not.

In post 68, YuniChikako wrote: Toomai: I'll might be able to say something once he stops/finishes his dbz marathon and talks more.

In post 68, YuniChikako wrote: Bulbazak: Stated my reasons already.

You did? I must have missed them.

In post 72, Yiley wrote:So ya I'm not liking slandaar here. I'm not really liking bulba either.

What don't you like?

Bulbazak · Post Post #80 (isolation #11) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:26 pm

JKLM, why aren't you answering me?

Bulbazak · Post Post #82 (isolation #12) » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:51 pm

In post 81, Yiley wrote:I don't like the way you started...

Explain.

Bulbazak · Post Post #95 (isolation #13) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:07 am

Are you ever planning on addressing my questions, Yiley?

Bulbazak · Post Post #97 (isolation #14) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:18 am

Why so slow to the party, PV?

Bulbazak · Post Post #102 (isolation #15) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:32 am

Why aren't you considering JKLM?

Bulbazak · Post Post #112 (isolation #16) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:23 am

In post 109, mastin2 wrote: Multiscum doesn't mean "everyone's scum". It just means that there are more scum than normal.

Actually, it's the same amount of scum, just split up into multiple teams.

Bulbazak · Post Post #129 (isolation #17) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:27 pm

In post 128, Garmr wrote: and even through I am suspicious of toonami I will vote Yiley
VOTE: Yiley

He seems like his dodging Bulbs question by not explaining fully or not answering post 81(Didn't anwser fully) post 93 doesn't even mention it. There's other reasons as well but I want to see who's thinking

JKLM did the same thing. Why Yiley specifically?

Bulbazak · Post Post #133 (isolation #18) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:59 pm

Matias, do you have any reasons for Garmr being scum other than "eh" "ew" and "yuck"?

Bulbazak · Post Post #143 (isolation #19) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:26 pm

In post 137, Matias wrote:
VOTE: Yunichikwowwow

I don't like this response from Yuni. I don't understand the reason why she didn't place the vote down. If it was because of the pregame thing why did she respond to it and why did she show intent to vote.
I was uneasy about this because it was the first response and set the precedent of a really bad wagon.

It was the first response to Yuni's actions. Woop de doo! How does that make it scummy? To be honest, his thoughts about Yuni's post mirror mine. Just because you don't like the wagon doesn't automatically make the person who began pushing it scum.

In post 137, Matias wrote: Because he questioned mastin without noting a very obvious joke.

So he didn't get an obvious joke until later. That's scummy how?

In post 137, Matias wrote:
Also I don't like the bulb wagon that much or some of the people on it. Looking at JKLM/Yunichikawowwow
Didn't explain this and it's a blatant defense of you for no reason whatsoever

He had scum reads on JKLM and Yuni, who were pushing my wagon. Hence he didn't like my wagon. What's so hard to follow?

In post 137, Matias wrote:
The reason I said look at it in none alignment way was I was trying to get you to think. I didn't want to shove Ideas into your head so what I wanted you to see and figure out for yourself was the effect he wanted from his post. Which was distance.

Since we have two scum team distance is going to play a big part in scum hunting since scum will be legit hunting. The next step I was going to ask you to do was think this was this town trying to distance themselves from potential buddying or scum trying to stop a scum slip.
This gave me a definite "insider knowledge" feel

How so?

In post 137, Matias wrote: I sense a great connect between Maxous and Garmr, like Garmr is doing a lot of coaching.

I don't. It feels more like Garmr is trying not to infect Maxous with his ideas and is wanting to hear natural conclusions from him, but I can at least understand how you came to this conclusion.

In post 137, Matias wrote:
But at the time being that isn't enough evidence to label you as scum and the other things you stood up well against.
UNVOTE: Yunichikwowwow

and even through I am suspicious of toonami I will vote Yiley
VOTE: Yiley

He seems like his dodging Bulbs question by not explaining fully or not answering post 81(Didn't anwser fully) post 93 doesn't even mention it. There's other reasons as well but I want to see who's thinking
And this. Just a lot of that shit about Toomai and he falls on Yiley instead? There is absolutely no indication as to why or how he should vote Yiley over Toomai here.

He explains it at the end. Although, to be fair, I did push him on his reasons for voting Yiley.

In post 137, Matias wrote:
In post 130, Garmr wrote:Well I was trying to get others to think but another reason is when I denied to go on your wagon. Yiley instanally jumped to the wagon I was on. I didn't like that it was like an attempt to get close to town.

In post 77, Yiley wrote:I like wagons ok? Wagons are fun. I'll probably try to start one soon but for right now I need a place to sit, and I like sitting on wagons.
This post also rings to me he want to be on a scum wagon but his aiming to dodge the bullet from scum on the other team by trying to look like useless town.
Considering he posted this right after, it weakens whatever argument he had against Toomai, if not nullifies it. He's doing a lot of weird shit between the two.

I asked him about his reasons for voting Yiley. Therefore, this post didn't come out of left field, and I don't think it weakens any of his previous arguments.

Bulbazak · Post Post #147 (isolation #20) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:56 pm

In post 145, Matias wrote: Scum like to ask fake questions (I do this a lot; review my scum games) and his "hey mastin I'm curious why did you say he was ice?" struck me as one.

Except he didn't ask Mastin that. He finally got a joke and commented and laughed about it.

In post 145, Matias wrote: I dislike this reasoning because it detracts from any prior suspicion on Toomai and he comes out of this seeming like he's defending him.

I didn't get that from his post at all.

Bulbazak · Post Post #150 (isolation #21) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:07 pm

In post 148, Matias wrote: What is it about my hunch do you disagree with?

Garmr's thought process has appeared very genuine to me, and I can actually understand it. He's actually trying to figure out who scum is and is processing the game in a manner that I don't think scum would. I'm sorry, I just don't see him being scum, and he's actually my strongest townread.

In post 148, Matias wrote: It seems like he went out of his way to completely detract from his argument on Toomai to be able to vote Yiley.

I didn't see that at all. I just saw him pursuing one read over another.

P-edit: Yeah, I F3'd his ISO and couldn't find anything. I have my own ideas about it, but I think that is something better left for Garmr to answer.

Bulbazak · Post Post #152 (isolation #22) » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:01 pm

In post 151, Matias wrote:Why would you think that he would have a read on JKLM prior to that post?

If he's like me, he's probably not posting everything he's thinking.

Bulbazak · Post Post #199 (isolation #23) » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:10 pm

Unvote

Vote JKLM

Bulbazak · Post Post #214 (isolation #24) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:32 am

In post 202, Slandaar wrote:
In post 199, Bulbazak wrote:
Unvote

Vote JKLM
Awful. Needs explaining.

In post 198, JKLM wrote:May as well ask a question to mastin, TSO and matias: what is the scummiest post so far?

Do you see what I see?

Bulbazak · Post Post #217 (isolation #25) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:41 am

In post 215, Matias wrote:No?

It's a lazy scum tactic. You get others to do your work for you, and then you side with them, pretending to scum hunt.

Bulbazak · Post Post #223 (isolation #26) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:30 am

In post 222, Matias wrote: I will note that, but your point would have more weight if JKLM had instantly agreed with what any of us had to say.

He hasn't posted anything since that, and now that I've pointed it out, I doubt he's going to just mindlessly agree.

Bulbazak · Post Post #233 (isolation #27) » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:17 pm

Yuni keeping her options open is making me wonder why I ever unvoted her in the first place.

Bulbazak · Post Post #246 (isolation #28) » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:16 am

In post 245, Yiley wrote:I am indeed. Gar and dry I am 100% sure at least one of them is mafia

How can you be so sure?

Bulbazak · Post Post #284 (isolation #29) » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:32 am

We need more JKLM votes.

Bulbazak · Post Post #286 (isolation #30) » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:44 am

Do you have a town read on JKLM?

Bulbazak · Post Post #290 (isolation #31) » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:11 am

In post 287, Slandaar wrote:Yep, hes town.

Wanna debate the credentials of your vote?

Explain, because I'm not seeing it.

Bulbazak · Post Post #295 (isolation #32) » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:07 pm

In post 291, Yiley wrote:How you seeing scum bulba?

I felt his defense of Yuni was strange and not sincere. Then there's his trying to get other people to scumhunt for him, and his lurking, which while I normally don't take it as a scumtell, the fact that he's purposely trying to avoid the discussion, while watching it, tells me that he's not interested in finding scum at all.

Bulbazak · Post Post #303 (isolation #33) » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:16 am

In post 298, Slandaar wrote:
In post 290, Bulbazak wrote: Explain, because I'm not seeing it.
He has shown quite a lot of aggression and then flat out states he is going to sit back as he has nothing to say as a newbie(very town) while being proactive in the same post.

I've seen him do this as scum.

Bulbazak · Post Post #345 (isolation #34) » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:10 pm

In post 314, Slandaar wrote:
In post 303, Bulbazak wrote: I've seen him do this as scum.
Do show.

Not right now.

In post 316, Maxous wrote: so,
I explained JKLM-town.
TSO explained JKLM-town. I think somebody else did too.
you did'nt adress any of these.
yet you
still
go 'idk man, I just can't see how JKLM can be town'.
Why?

Hmm... I didn't, did I?

In post 295, Bulbazak wrote: I felt his defense of Yuni was strange and not sincere. Then there's his trying to get other people to scumhunt for him, and his lurking, which while I normally don't take it as a scumtell, the fact that he's purposely trying to avoid the discussion, while watching it, tells me that he's not interested in finding scum at all.

Your main point for JKLM-town is his aggressiveness early in the game. The problem is that I've seen him be aggressive like that as scum, so that is not enough to convince me. I don't think his play in this game shows the town motivation that you say is there, and as such, I want JKLM strung up from the highest tree.

In post 335, mastin2 wrote:This Dry-fit wagon feels like it's on scum, and I'll tell you why--because, contrary to the Yunichika wagon which appeared basically overnight, this one hasn't. It hasn't exploded into an L-2 wagon. Its built gradually and steadily. Furthermore, while the points against Yunichika were fairly weak and rushed (making the wagon on her unwarranted), the points against Dry-fit feel like they're more solid and grounded in reality.

You know as well as I that the speed of a wagon means nothing. Stop pushing surface crap Mastin. I know you're better than this as town.

In post 338, T S O wrote:Mastin's gonna be a bitch to beat if he's scum this game, dammit.

Get ready. He's scum this game.

Bulbazak · Post Post #366 (isolation #35) » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:22 pm

In post 365, Dry-fit wrote:Go ahead and lynch me. This is probably the worst game I've played on site.

That AtE...

Bulbazak · Post Post #377 (isolation #36) » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:40 pm

Pacman, Slandaar is town. JKLM is not.

Bulbazak · Post Post #393 (isolation #37) » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:11 pm

In post 389, OhGodMyLife wrote:I know I have confirmation bias because I already believe my own theory but come on now. Toomai/dry scum team. Opposing scum team adjust your aim accordingly.

You're overcompensating in your attempt to look townie...

Bulbazak · Post Post #398 (isolation #38) » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:41 pm

Mastin, don't you dare pull this patronizing crap on me. Your posts feel artificial as crap.

Bulbazak · Post Post #408 (isolation #39) » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:37 pm

In post 404, Maxous wrote:
@Bulbazak
Can you show me this game where JKLM was agressive as scum pls? I'll take a quick look through it

Now that it's finished, absolutely: The Legend of Zelda: Defense of Hyrule. Watch closely how aggressively JKLM goes after Waynegg d1.

Also, where's my cookie?

Bulbazak · Post Post #435 (isolation #40) » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:57 pm

In post 413, Maxous wrote:
In post 408, Bulbazak wrote:Also, where's my cookie?
The cookie is a lie :S

I don't accept non-cake desserts to be lies.

In other news, Mastin is continuing to speak in double talk..

In post 432, Garmr wrote:
In post 429, mastin2 wrote:
In post 399, Garmr wrote:Tell me how this guy is a town wagon again.
Because he is?

I might not be an expert at JKLM.
But I'd like to think I'm not incompetent at reading him, and he looks like town.

I've listed so many things why JKLM is scum. But this Bolded part shows me something important. You have confirmation bias because even when thrown heaps of information that JKLM you still believe him to be town. Lets put it this way JKLM>Dryfit chances to be scum.

So do you think Mastin is town?

In post 434, Dry-fit wrote:Also Toomai is on that wagon, so there's that. Still think Toomai is significantly more likely to be scum.

So? That just means he's not scum with JKLM.

Bulbazak · Post Post #474 (isolation #41) » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:03 pm

I want an Aptil PL now.

Bulbazak · Post Post #480 (isolation #42) » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:31 am

Vote Aptil

Bulbazak · Post Post #493 (isolation #43) » Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:12 pm

In post 484, YuniChikako wrote:Well. No reason given from Aptil to vote Dry-fit, this is certainly interesting. TSO, I'd like to know why you seem to dismiss that hammer. Possible maf partner noted.
Oh my gosh Maxous
was
maf. I feel so happy.

VOTE: Aptil, and he better give me a good reason why he's inno if he wants to change my vote

.

Hello Ice Scum.

Bulbazak · Post Post #495 (isolation #44) » Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:41 pm

What inquiry would that be, Scumstin?

Bulbazak · Post Post #508 (isolation #45) » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:45 am

In post 496, Desperado wrote: @ Bulb: Which team is Mastin on?

No clue. I'd probably have to reread him in ISO. I just know that this is not town Mastin posting. There's a lot of double talk from him, where he's giving himself outs, and he's playing it way too safe, which I think is due to this being a multi-scum game.

@Aptil: There was still no excuse for that quicklynch. You should have still given intent, as well as more time, before you hammered. We were nowhere near deadline, so really, that hammer of yours was inexcusable.

Bulbazak · Post Post #559 (isolation #46) » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:42 am

V/LA until January 2nd.

I'll catch up when I get back.

Bulbazak · Post Post #582 (isolation #47) » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:26 pm

In post 509, Desperado wrote: @ Bulb: What games are you using to base your metaread?

Mainly this one. Mastin came across as strongly town there, and I'm not getting the same from him here. I'm also looking at his posts and noticing how weak they are stance-wise, and how he's built himself so many outs. Mastin is not giving me the town feels that I got in that game, and I don't think there's a reason why he wouldn't play so strongly in this game than he would in that one.

In post 524, NJAC wrote: BTW: this is my first multiscum game so I'm still trying to understand if typical scumhunting works or not. I also have the impression that multiscum games are a bit easier for us the town, I mean someone (mastin IIRC) mentioned a game where town won because the scum groups killed each other. So that should give us some advantage because scum are trying to get rid of each other. Am I right? Of course I understand there's a balance so this is not going to be that easy, but at least the ice group already helped us to get rid of one scum.

^Worst. Disguise. Ever.

In post 526, NJAC wrote: How does town-mastin post?

Read that game and find out. He does take strong stances, that's for sure. He's not doing so here, and I feel he is more concerned with making sure he has a plan of escape, rather than finding scum.

In post 526, NJAC wrote: Do you think is it possible he's playing safe to avoid being NKed? I mean he says he is a likely target on N1 or N2 in multiscum games, what do you think?

I don't see why he'd be playing it safe, especially since he didn't play it safe when he was IC, and especially since he voiced that he might be killed. Besides, why would he prioritize survival over scumhunting? Even as a PR, that's more dangerous and anti-town than just scumhunting while keeping a low profile.

In post 526, NJAC wrote: Also, is it possible he hasn't had enough time to engage in this game properly?

Know something I don't? Why the strong defense of Mastin?

In post 530, mastin2 wrote:ptil's (relative) lack of experience (and my judgment on his current skill level as a player) combined with his slightly-out-of-place defense of Bulbazak. Nothing's changed it; the only way I can see aptil as scum is if he's scum with Bulbazak. And even if Bulbazak is scum, it's no guarantee of aptil being scum. It's just that if Bulbazak isn't scum, aptil isn't scum either. For the record, yes, I currently lean towards Bulb being scum and aptil being town.

Hmm....

In post 577, aptil wrote:
In post 475, ElectricSavages wrote:
JKLM [5]
- Bulbazak, Garmr, Toomai, evilpacman18, Maxous

This wagon has at least 3 scum from .
Maxous- confirmed .
Evil ,Toomai - most likely .
Bulbazak- a little less than above two .
Garmr - most unlikely .

Tags Fixed ~JS

You know it is possible that scum could be voting other scum, right?

Bulbazak · Post Post #587 (isolation #48) » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:56 pm

In post 586, Desperado wrote: The scumMastin I know hates leaving himself outs and taking weak stances.

How many times have you seen scum Mastin in a multiball game?

Bulbazak · Post Post #589 (isolation #49) » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:36 pm

I think he's playing it very carefully, because he doesn't have to contend with just town this time. He knows that his normal play would probably result in him being killed, and he knows that would be bad for his team (Remember, he's against bussing for similar reasons.). He's laying low, and I read over his posts, and I know for a fact that we're not dealing with town Mastin this game.

Bulbazak · Post Post #593 (isolation #50) » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:51 am

Why don't you think JKLM is scum?

Bulbazak · Post Post #612 (isolation #51) » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:20 pm

In post 598, T S O wrote:
In post 589, Bulbazak wrote:I think he's playing it very carefully, because he doesn't have to contend with just town this time. He knows that his normal play would probably result in him being killed, and he knows that would be bad for his team (Remember, he's against bussing for similar reasons.). He's laying low, and I read over his posts, and I know for a fact that we're not dealing with town Mastin this game.
What posts, specifically?

I'm looking at his posts in general. I'm looking at how he's wording his posts, how they're weak and fake. It's not like I saw 1 thing in 1 specific post. It's a cumulative effect.

In post 604, NJAC wrote:Also I don't like soft accusations so if you think I'm scum disguising my entrance post say it clear.

That's what I was saying, although I don't think that anymore.

In post 604, NJAC wrote: Now, if you think this is scum-mastin who is posting, why are you voting aptil over mastin?

Policy.

In post 608, mastin2 wrote:Honestly, this begs the question. Dry-fit wasn't scum. Why was there a counter-wagon to him forming? My best guess is that one or more of the other wagons in the previous votecount (Toomai/Yunichika/Bulbazak/Desperado/Maxous) was on scum, and that they wanted to ensure that the lynch was guaranteed to--if not on town--at least not be on their faction of scum. In particular, I'm thinking about the Toomai and Bulbazak wagons. Probably not for the same faction, but both having a significant chance of being FROM a faction.

2 problems with this:

1.) There was never a serious wagon like you were implying on either Toomai or myself. Both of those wagons never really went beyond 3 votes, definitely not when Dry-Fit was scum. They were very minor wagons and never leading wagons, meaning there would have been no reason to create a counter-wagon if either of us were scum.

2.) You are discounting the possibility that JKLM could have been a town created wagon, mainly because said players didn't like the Dry-Fit wagon. That's actually a very big oversight Mastin, and one I don't think you would make as town.

In post 611, mastin2 wrote:I actually
have
reached conclusions. I've got a ton of townreads,
and
a preliminary callout on the entirety of both scumteams:
{Maxous, Bulb, Slandaar} and {PeregrineV, Toomai, NJAC}.

That's anything BUT "no conclusions".

That's incorrect actually. You had already reached your conclusions before you ever did your "reread" or "analysis". Anybody who has been paying attention will notice that your reads have never changed. All you really did was go back to the VCs and come up with ways to justify those reads, which tells me they were fake in the first place. In other words, NJAC is right (and saying what I have been) in that your scumhunting is fake, simply meant to look like the real thing.

Bulbazak · Post Post #621 (isolation #52) » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:50 pm

In post 617, evilpacman18 wrote: Bulba, what are you seeing in Yuni? Do you think aptil and Yuni are scum buddies?

Yuni is scum. I doubt she's scum with Aptil, though. In fact, replace Slandaar with Yuni, and I think you have a winner. Maxous was heavily defending Yuni, as was JKLM, who was actively seeking a counter wagon. That leaves Aptil as Ice if she is scum. Slandaar and Yiley are both town.

Bulbazak · Post Post #623 (isolation #53) » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:33 pm

Wagon speed means nothing. Yiley's play is reminding me of his town play in his first Newbie game, only without him being so shy.

Bulbazak · Post Post #636 (isolation #54) » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:34 am

In post 634, PeregrineV wrote:Mastin is probably town, but
@Mastin- focus on finding scum, sort the teams out as it becomes necessary.

How is Mastin town? Because he can post walls?

Bulbazak · Post Post #638 (isolation #55) » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:58 am

In post 637, PeregrineV wrote:He is actually attempting to reach conclusions.

No he hasn't. He already knew what conclusions he wanted to reach, and then made up some BS for each VC so that he could reach them. If you had been paying attention to his posts this game, you should not have been surprised by any of his conclusions.

Bulbazak · Post Post #642 (isolation #56) » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:15 pm

Yuni, I loved how you buddied up to Mastin and Slandaar, while keeping their suspects alive and well as potential lynches.

Bulbazak · Post Post #680 (isolation #57) » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:58 pm

In post 655, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 638, Bulbazak wrote:No he hasn't. He already knew what conclusions he wanted to reach, and then made up some BS for each VC so that he could reach them. If you had been paying attention to his posts this game, you should not have been surprised by any of his conclusions.
Yes, he reached those conclusions on weak information, and then tried to bolster them through some VCA. But, he always does that. The fact is you can see HOW he reached his weak conclusions in the first place.

Think of it as putting the cart before the horse. The horse will push instead of pull, and it's not as efficient, but you'll still get to where you are going in the end.

Go look at just his first 11 posts and get back to me with thoughts.

In post 657, T S O wrote:So went back and re-read for the sole purpose of sorting out Mastin. To really test this, I looked at readslists, got my conclusions, then checked his.

re: Maxous' readslists, they're exactly the same, exactly. the. same.

Bulba, I tried, but pretty sure you're incorrect here.

Prod dodge. Will get to this later today.

Bulbazak · Post Post #681 (isolation #58) » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:58 pm

I forgot I was quoting those...

Bulbazak · Post Post #710 (isolation #59) » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:31 pm

In post 655, PeregrineV wrote: Go look at just his first 11 posts and get back to me with thoughts.

Mastin starts off by faking ignorance of the game being multiball. How do I know it was fake? Two things: He was asked by the mod to play, and he mentions the game advertisement. Both stem from the same reasoning. The game advertisement had the game name in great big letters:

Fire and Ice

, and I would assume the mod would tell him the game name when asking him to sign up (Heck, I have people ask questions about upcoming games before they even pre-in, there's no way the most basic of information didn't get across.). Fire and Ice. The freaking title tells you it's multiball! I looked at the title when signing up and said, "Hey, look, a multiball game.". To be ignorant of this after having been both asked by the mod AND seeing the game advertisement means that Mastin would be incapable of putting even the most basic of conclusions together. Mastin's pretty clever, so I doubt this is the case.

Next he tries to get early towncred by essentially saying "Oops. I townslipped.". That is an incredible obvious plant. If you point out your own townslip, it means it should no longer be trusted, especially if you call it a townslip. Town tends to be pretty ignorant of when they slip, and if they realize their mistake, they don't point it out in the manner Mastin did. His "Oops..." was meant to be seen, because he wanted the towncred early and didn't want to work for it in a game with multiple scum factions. Continuing off of this, he sets his standard of play very low in the exact same post. He doesn't want anyone to have high expectations for him this game, because he doesn't want to put himself out there too much. Why not? Again, it's multiball, and he doesn't want to make himself a night target for the other scumteam. If there was only 1 team in this game, he'd be towning it up, but he's playing it careful, which is why he's using contrived methods to gain towncred.

Then you have his interactions with Maxous. Do I think they're on the same team? Absolutely. He's the first to identify Maxous as scum, In fact, he actually identifies him correctly as fire scum. His voting of him straight off the bat is distancing. He's not bussing. Mastin doesn't bus, not in the traditional sense. He's smart about it. He doesn't want anyone to draw a connection between him and Maxous, and while he's going to call Maxous scum, he doesn't intend to keep his vote on him for very much longer. In fact, once someone gives him an out, JKLM in this case, Mastin immediately moves his vote off his so called strongest scum read. In fact, his vote stays off Maxous, all the while, Mastin continues to call him scum while not acting upon his read.

Finally, we end with Mastin's scumread of Aptil. Where did that come from? Well, it seems Aptil actually questioned one of Mastin's moves. Mastin immediately calls her scum. Although he answers her question, he doesn't do so completely, in fact, he ignores the very thing that Aptil had suspected about him.

All in all, Mastin's posts are meant to look impressive more than anything else. In reality, they are fluff containing very little content. Mastin has lacked conviction in his posts and has always given himself outs through verboseness. His posts are words for the sake of words, and he really could have said what he needed to in much less, but he wanted to create an impenetrable maze. This is careful Mastin. This is sly Mastin. This

is not

town Mastin.

@PeregrineV: I've been thinking lately of a FEA block of much towniness. Thoughts?

In post 657, T S O wrote: Bulba, I tried, but pretty sure you're incorrect here.

After rereading what PV wanted me to, I think I'm right on the money concerning my Mastin read.

In post 666, T S O wrote: Mastin analysed Maxous' readlists and came up with conclusions. To test his mindset, I did it myself before looking at his conclusions. We had the same ones.

Whether that's good or bad, idk, but it indicates Mastin-town.

Just because someone's reads match your own or they echo your thoughts back to you, that doesn't mean they're town. I fell into that pitfall with my family. Don't do the same in this game.

Talk to me.

Unvote

Bulbazak · Post Post #711 (isolation #60) » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:59 pm

Vote YuniChikako

Slandaar, you know you want to join me on this.

Bulbazak · Post Post #712 (isolation #61) » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:49 pm

@Mod: I'll be V/LA until the 18th. I'm getting my upper wisdom teeth removed, and I'll be spending most of the week recovering.

Bulbazak · Post Post #793 (isolation #62) » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:06 pm

In post 714, Toomai wrote:I approve of that mastin case you have there, but why follow it with a YC vote? Yeah I know you've had it as scum for a while (and I don't exactly disagree), but it seems like an odd time to give it a vote.

Because I wanted Slandaar to stop voting TSO.

In post 723, mastin2 wrote:
He doesn't want anyone to have high expectations for him this game, because he doesn't want to put himself out there too much.
This basically directly contradicts the majority of your other points, by the way. I put myself out there. Painted a giant freakin' target on me. Directly acted in a way that was meant to be a bit antagonistic. Directly made it obvious I was town. Directly tried to provoke scumreads of mine. That's anything but not putting myself out there. Yes, I didn't expect much of me. Still don't. That I wasn't nightkilled means that I've basically failed to be a threat. But the two are entirely different things.

No they're not. I'm referring to this:

In post 44, mastin2 wrote: And I
hate
being town in multiscum games (and, yes, I am town; I kinda townslipped in my last post accidentally so I'm basically going to be rambling the whole game ), simply because my scumdar takes a ton of calibration to lock in. Still, though, if this Fire and Ice game is like the open (I'll double-check the rules to see if it is) at all, then that's a promising sign considering how well my last one went. 19 players likely means 3 each, for 6 total, and I'll be looking for that many.

Anyway, this is basically my intro-post. I'll get to reading things and hopefully lock onto some scum. (Don't expect anything stellar, though. Last time, I got good because I replaced in. I'm a far more mediocre player when playing from the start, and only elevate to scumhunting-pseudo-god when replacing in or after enough time has passed that I can mimic the effect. Basically, when playing from the start, I've got a switch flipped to the off position, called "sheep me". Right now, "sheep me" is flipped off; you shouldn't be doing it. When I get my head into the game, I'll let you know when the switch has been flipped and you should follow. )

You set yourself up as the useless townie right off the bat. You didn't

want

anyone to take your reads that seriously. It's simply a way of looking like you're trying without putting any effort in.

In post 44, mastin2 wrote:
His voting of him straight off the bat is distancing. He's not bussing. Mastin doesn't bus, not in the traditional sense. He's smart about it. He doesn't want anyone to draw a connection between him and Maxous, and while he's going to call Maxous scum, he doesn't intend to keep his vote on him for very much longer.
This is true...of my single-scum game. In multiscum? Fuck no, I'm not even going to do distancing. I'm going to townread my scumbuddies, no matter how damn scummy I think they are, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THEM DEAD. Distancing draws attention to opposite-scum. Bussing draws attention to town. Townreading? Doesn't. Simple stuff.

Distancing is still a useful tool in multiball, especially if done well, and

especially

coming from you, since no one would expect it. You should know this better than anyone, given how often you write about mafia theory. Just because you call one of your team mates scum does not mean that you have to get them lynched.

In post 44, mastin2 wrote:
Finally, we end with Mastin's scumread of Aptil. Where did that come from? Well, it seems Aptil actually questioned one of Mastin's moves. Mastin immediately calls her scum.
Nice narrative, but exactly that--a story fabricated. I said exactly what I meant:
IF Bulbazak is scum, it'd be
possible
for aptil to be scum. Basically my exact damn words. Two qualifiers, there. TWO. That's anything but a scumread. The explicit implication here is that in any other scenario, aptil would be town. Basically?
If Bulbazak is town, aptil is town.
If Bulbazak is scum, it's possible aptil's scum. (But not definitely. Just possible.)
If Bulbazak is scum, aptil could still be town. (My current belief.)
None of these are what Bulbazak is painting my aptil reaction to be. Bluntly, he's lying; this is right there in my damn iso spelled out as clearly as can be.

Wow, are

you

lying. Let's look back at the original post, shall we?:

In post 111, mastin2 wrote:
In post 110, aptil wrote:I don't understand the Bulb wagon . 1 vote is random . 1 vote is a sheep vote . 1 vote was a vote by other player to try and start a counter-wagon to their own wagon .
@mastin : Why do you think yuni is innocent ?
Aptil can be scum with Bulbazak, but otherwise is probably town.

To answer...it's a combination of seeing town in Yuni's posts and seeing scum scumhunting Yuni via voting her. By which, I mean, seeing her wagon, its speed, its composition, the reasoning behind voting, and everything, basically being a signature multiscum move, of scum voting her thinking she's scum, when in truth she isn't.

See, it's funny that you say

I'm

lying, yet you never address the main point I was making: The scumread of Aptil comes out of nowhere, and

only

after he first suspects you of being scum. I wasn't arguing your assertion. I was arguing your defensiveness.

In post 44, mastin2 wrote:
All in all, Mastin's posts are meant to look impressive more than anything else.
Yep! Look impressive. Seems like that'd be drawing attention to myself, no? They're meant to look impressive because I've been trying to get scum to nightkill me.

This is a strawman, and you know it. Just because something

looks

impressive doesn't actually mean it is. Your posts are large, but lack punch, and anybody who is bothering to read them can see it. You try to argue that you're trying to get scum to kill you. Why would they bother when your posts are purposefully toothless? Your keeping up appearances is not for scum's sake. That's never been my argument. It's for town's sake, that way they look at your large overblown posts and think you're actually doing something. You're laying low the Mastin way, which is why your posts are large, but mostly talk in circles, and why anyone can read your posts from d1, and know

exactly

what you're going to say d2.

In post 729, mastin2 wrote:
In post 725, NJAC wrote:I'm reading and posting tonight... after skimming I like Bulba's case on mastin , but don't fully understand the jump on Yuni
(Because you're scum, and Bulb's also scum.)

It's like Aptil all over again...

In post 735, YuniChikako wrote: Now Toomai: I went through Bulbazak's mentions of me, and I'm pretty sure there wasn't any kind of real explanation. I mean, he's been saying I'm scum, but never
why
.

I'm pretty sure I've said why, but it's mainly due to you being self-conscious scum.

In post 742, evilpacman18 wrote:how is anybody reading Slandaar as town god damn

Because this is his town play.

On to page 31

Bulbazak · Post Post #794 (isolation #63) » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:24 pm

Okay, not much more to add. TSO still needs to talk to me, unsure if Pacman is scum or just town with bad reads, and hoping to see a lot more of PA, since I suck at reading her.

Bulbazak · Post Post #799 (isolation #64) » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:10 pm

In post 795, T S O wrote:okay, so talk to me, Bulba.

Do you think YC will flip scum?

Yes.

In post 797, penguin_alien wrote: Bulbazak, as far as mastin2 goes, I agree with you that his posts where he pushes flimsy reads as far more ironclad than they are are emblematic of his scum game. What makes me less sure is that he doesn't seem to have as much of an agenda as I've seen from scum-him recently. It's like he's putting out bald-faced reads, but he's missing that insistence that everyone else fall in line.

Why would he want to put himself out there as scum when there's another team he has to look out for? I'm seeing that as a more survivalistic tactic, rather than something that makes him town.

Bulbazak · Post Post #820 (isolation #65) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:06 am

Bulbazak's Hierarchy of reads (D3)

Town

TSO
Garmr
Slandaar
PeregrineV
NJAC

Null/Town

Desperado

Null

RachMarie
Penguin_alien

Null/Scum

Toomai
Aptil

Scum

Evilpacman18
Mastin2

Vote Aptil

I don't want him in endgame.

Bulbazak · Post Post #822 (isolation #66) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:14 am

Scum are trying to kill each other. Whichever team killed Matias was obviously looking for other scum on the Yuni wagon. This makes it likely that most of that team was off the wagon. We're likely only looking at 2 scum max on the Yuni wagon given that.

Also, looking back over Yiley's posts d2 makes it clear that Aptil is not fire scum.

Bulbazak · Post Post #839 (isolation #67) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:51 am

I have a lot to say, especially to Mastin, but there's another major reveal coming, and I promised to hold off. I plan on voting for Pacman, though.

@PA: Which 2 on the Yuni wagon are more likely to be scum in your opinion?

Bulbazak · Post Post #869 (isolation #68) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:46 am

In post 825, mastin2 wrote: Bulbazak is a scumread because this game feels an awful lot like his scumgame in Maniacal Street, and not what his towngame is like.

How so? I felt I was more aggressive in that game.

In post 825, mastin2 wrote: the general aura around his analysis is rotten and feels hollow and empty.

Again, examples.

In post 825, mastin2 wrote:
In post 822, Bulbazak wrote:Scum are trying to kill each other. Whichever team killed Matias was obviously looking for other scum on the Yuni wagon. This makes it likely that most of that team was off the wagon. We're likely only looking at 2 scum max on the Yuni wagon given that.

Also, looking back over Yiley's posts d2 makes it clear that Aptil is not fire scum.
This looks like scum with inside info.

I was asked to consider scum on the Yuni wagon. Those were part of the results I came up with, since I figured scum might have done the same thing.

In post 840, mastin2 wrote:Basically, I don't give a damn at this point. The fire scum are going to join the wagon since it's lynching their opposite faction. The ice scum are going to join the wagon because they know their buddy is busted. I'm going to get lynched off of suspicion of me being ice anyway, so it doesn't make a damn difference if I'm on the wagon or off, but it does make one critical vital difference--give me just enough time to get thoughts out before the end of the day, with this new piece of analysis to go off of.

Why would you say this, especially about you being considered ice scum? I have you down as fire scum if anything.

In post 860, Toomai wrote:
In post 839, Bulbazak wrote:[...] but there's another major reveal coming, and I promised to hold off.
Well don't hold off too long.

I was informed that the reveal is off. It's interesting that you were fishing so hard for it, though.

Vote Evilpacman18

Bulbazak · Post Post #876 (isolation #69) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:36 pm

Garmr, Matias was the nurse. Yiley was the fire cop.

Bulbazak · Post Post #881 (isolation #70) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:16 pm

In post 879, penguin_alien wrote:I do agree that mastin isn't fire Mafia.

Explain, because I disagree.

Bulbazak · Post Post #898 (isolation #71) » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:17 am

In post 888, RachMarie wrote:hmm Aptil could be fire since EPM is ice based on the cop that copped him...

A readthrough of Yiley's ISO makes me think he investigated Aptil. If that's the case, Aptil is not fire scum.

Bulbazak · Post Post #911 (isolation #72) » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:45 pm

Bulbazak's Hierarchy of Reads (D4)

Town

Penguin_alien
TSO
Slandaar
Garmr
PeregrineV

Null

NJAC

Null/Scum

Desperado
RachMarie

Scum

Toomai
Aptil

Vote Aptil

Bulbazak · Post Post #929 (isolation #73) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:18 pm

In post 922, T S O wrote:Bulba, what did you think about the Mastin flip?

A part of me died inside. I'm really not liking where my reads are at. I'll probably reevaluate during the night phase. I have a feeling somebody in my town list is probably scum.

Bulbazak · Post Post #938 (isolation #74) » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:53 am

In post 937, Toomai wrote:
In post 929, Bulbazak wrote:I'm really not liking where my reads are at. I'll probably reevaluate during the night phase. I have a feeling somebody in my town list is probably scum.
Why wait until night?

There will be more information.

Bulbazak · Post Post #961 (isolation #75) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:51 pm

I like that crumb. Aptil needs more votes.

Bulbazak · Post Post #965 (isolation #76) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:57 pm

In post 964, Desperado wrote: Why is everyone pretending like claiming doc makes Toomai town? NY 167 and 164 both included scum doctors and Jacob was in 167.

There's a missing Ice kill. Are you suggesting that Ice tried to kill Fire last night and that Toomai blocked it?

Bulbazak · Post Post #970 (isolation #77) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:31 pm

Okay, I'd like to see what the next VC is going to look like, but I'm pretty confident that Desp is Ice-scum.

Bulbazak · Post Post #972 (isolation #78) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:35 pm

I was initially assuming a town doctor that protected PA. Your posts are interesting, because they suggest night action knowledge that you couldn't possibly have as town. Regardless, I don't think it's best to lynch Toomai today. Although, we do need to see if your vote is counted, making TSO's an accidental hammer.

Bulbazak · Post Post #975 (isolation #79) » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:45 pm

In post 973, Desperado wrote: Which ones?

All the ones talking about the possibility of a scum doctor. It hints at knowledge of Toomai lying about his target.

In post 973, Desperado wrote: And no, TSO put Toomai at L-1 just like Toomai said.

You're right. I miscounted.

In post 974, Desperado wrote:And why on earth would you assume either team would shoot a spent power role?

PA is conf. town. If there's one thing you don't want with you in endgame as scum, it's conf. town.

Unvote

Vote Desperado

Bulbazak · Post Post #991 (isolation #80) » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:58 pm

In post 976, Desperado wrote:
In post 975, Bulbazak wrote:PA is conf. town. If there's one thing you don't want with you in endgame as scum, it's conf. town.
And you think scum are thinking about endgame right now because...?

They want to win. Planning for endgame as scum at this point you have 2 options: 1.) Kill the other team AND 2.) Kill the conf. town/PRs.

In post 976, Desperado wrote: You were in 164. Why aren't you as paranoid about this as I am?

I've considered the possibility, seeing as how we have a Nurse, which would backup the doc, even if it was a scum one. However, with as tumultuous as this game is, it is not a good idea to kill the claimed doctor. We need as much help as we can get, even if it's just for PoE.

In post 977, Desperado wrote:
In post 975, Bulbazak wrote:All the ones talking about the possibility of a scum doctor. It hints at knowledge of Toomai lying about his target.
...no they don't. Prove it?

Simple logic. The simple fact of assuming Toomai is a scum doc and not a town one must lead you to believe 2 things: 1.) He is Fire scum, since they actually delivered a kill. 2.) He is lying about his target. Why is that a natural conclusion? Because both teams are down to only 2 members each. If Toomai was a fire scum doctor, it would be suicide to claim his actual target, since if he dies, town would easily finish off his team. It is not in his best interest to do so, and claiming a false target introduces WIFOM and has the possibility of maybe getting a mislynch in, while simultaneously protecting his partner. It also has the advantage of buddying up to whoever he claims to have protected, since odds are high that they wouldn't want to kill him.

Ergo, if you are claiming that Toomai is a scum doctor, you are also asserting that he is lying about his target, and in that case, there are only 2 people who would know that for sure: The Ice team.

Bulbazak · Post Post #997 (isolation #81) » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:42 am

In post 996, PeregrineV wrote:Back and not much to change this. Would also vote Desp.

Then why don't you?

Bulbazak · Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:39 am

In post 999, Slandaar wrote:Claiming an alternate near enough outs Firescum to Icescum (Toomai has outed himself and his partner to them) which is not good for Firescum's chances to win.

If Toomai is fire scum, Ice scum already know who he actually protected.

In post 999, Slandaar wrote: Not really, claiming any target produces some form of WIFOM, but, if you believe he would never claim his legit target then there is no WIFOM.

It would still be WIFOM from the town's PoV, since they wouldn't know for sure whether Toomai lied about his target or not. Just because I think that lying is the optimal move does not mean that everyone else will think so.

In post 999, Slandaar wrote:
In post 991, Bulbazak wrote: Ergo, if you are claiming that Toomai is a scum doctor, you are also asserting that he is lying about his target, and in that case, there are only 2 people who would know that for sure: The Ice team.
Fire team also would know. Potentially PR's would also.

I didn't include fire team for obvious reasons. I didn't consider PRs.

In post 999, Slandaar wrote: I assume you think Toomai is scum?

I'm not sure. I acknowledge the possibility, but I need to reevaluate my understanding of the game and see what is likely. I don't think he should be lynch today, though.

In post 1005, Desperado wrote: I don't need inside information to know that scum lie. This is weak as fuck, bro.

You are sure about Toomai being a scum doctor at a level that is suggestive of inside information. I could see town being paranoid and suggesting it as a possibility, but they would unvote on the off-chance that Toomai might be a town doc. You're pushing him being a scum doc as an absolute certainty, and I can't see that coming from town.

Bulbazak · Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:54 am

Let's see... There was only 1 kill last night, and we had a nurse in the setup. I'm going to say there's a doctor. Now it can be understandable, if town, to be paranoid, but you do not try to kill a claimed PR, especially the claimed protective role. You, however, are still strongly pushing for the lynch, which suggests scum, perhaps with knowledge that he shouldn't possibly have as town.

Bulbazak · Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:59 am

@Slandaar: Do you believe Toomai is town?

Bulbazak · Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:10 am

Slandaar, what do you think of Desperado's push?

Bulbazak · Post Post #1062 (isolation #86) » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:32 pm

Desperado needs more votes.

Bulbazak · Post Post #1065 (isolation #87) » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:19 pm

In post 1063, RachMarie wrote:Then push that tomorrow Bulb we do not have time and a NL is bad juju. ESPECIALLY with two potential kills a night.

You are at L-2 and Desp is at L-3. We can still make this happen.

Bulbazak · Post Post #1067 (isolation #88) » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:29 pm

We have 16 hours until deadline. NJAC, TSO, and Rach are not voting a viable wagon. They need to vote now! Rach, there's no excuse for you not being on Desperado.

Bulbazak · Post Post #1070 (isolation #89) » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:01 pm

In post 1068, RachMarie wrote:true that though I still feel Aptil is a stronger read.

I doubt we could lynch that slot while the mod is looking for a replacement.

Bulbazak · Post Post #1136 (isolation #90) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:47 am

In post 1127, Slandaar wrote:
In post 908, ElectricSavages wrote:
mastin2 was turned into a Kebab,

@Mod: Please can you reword this as I am finding it incredibly ambiguous

How is it ambiguous? I felt it clearly pointed to a fire scum kill.

Vote NJAC

The only way TSO should be lynched is if he's on the next scum lynch and is still around the next day.

Bulbazak · Post Post #1143 (isolation #91) » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:50 am

Slandaar, vote NJAC with me?

Bulbazak · Post Post #1147 (isolation #92) » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:22 am

In post 1144, Toomai wrote:Bulbazak, what's up with your NJAC read? I see you having him as low on the town list Day 3, null Day 4, and now apparently scum Day 5. Is it just his noncontributions or something else?

I remember that he gave me a scum vibe when he first replaced in, but I then put him as town based on his reaction to Mastin and that he echoed a lot of my thoughts in relation to Mastin. After Mastin was NK'd, I began to reexamine my read of NJAC. He went back to being a strong scum read during the night phase when I went through his ISO and found it lacking.

Bulbazak · Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:00 am

In post 1154, PeregrineV wrote: Meanwhile, everyone's take on RachMarie would be appreciated.

Could be fire scum. I'd rather just vote my stronger scumread.

Bulbazak · Post Post #1188 (isolation #94) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:12 am

I'd be willing to PL Zek, as I feel the later we put this off, the less likely it will be, but I still think NJAC is more likely to flip scum.

@Mod: Can we have a vote count?

We should probably start making up our minds, seeing as how we have less than a week to go.

Bulbazak · Post Post #1191 (isolation #95) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:17 am

Unvote

Vote Zekrom25

Bulbazak · Post Post #1193 (isolation #96) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:27 am

I'm at Zek by PoE anyway, I thought his predecessor was scum, I don't want him anywhere near endgame, and if we are going to PL that slot, it has to be now, or we'll never do it.

Bulbazak · Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:36 am

@Garmr: What makes you think Zekrom is town, instead of bad scum?

Bulbazak · Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:45 am

In post 1199, Zekrom25 wrote:
In post 1193, Bulbazak wrote:I'm at Zek by PoE anyway, I thought his predecessor was scum, I don't want him anywhere near endgame, and if we are going to PL that slot, it has to be now, or we'll never do it.
please explain with details

What do you want explained? It's PoE, because I have townreads on enough people to throw your alignment into question. I was scumreading Aptil, because I wasn't as quick to believe that his actions were attributable to noob town. And yes, your lynch would be a policy lynch, but one which I think is very likely to land on scum, and we are getting nearer to endgame, which means the window for PLs are quickly passing. If you are scum, then you need to be lynched now for policy reasons, or else it is very likely you'd be allowed to skate bye in endgame.

In post 1200, Garmr wrote: and Epm has been pounding on aptil since his first post of significiance

Have you ever heard of bussing?

In post 1200, Garmr wrote: It makes me think that epm was legit scum reading him.

Then why did he place Aptil as Ice scum instead of Fire? By that point, he knew that if Aptil was scum not on his team, he'd be fire, and that Yiley prob cleared him. This means that Aptil is either town that Epm was pushing as scum, or that Epm placed Aptil as scum on his list so as to avoid associations. Heck, Epm might also be one of those scum players who doesn't follow a pattern of where they place their buddies on their readlists, which means that Aptil could still be Ice that Epm decided to put as a scumread. Also, you only quote one of the few times he talks about Aptil. Looking back through his ISO, Epm was pretty hands off in actually pursuing him, which reinforces the idea that he and Aptil were scumbuddies, and that Epm's read of Aptil was merely for show.

Bulbazak · Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:42 pm

I think it was simple distancing. Epm never intended to bus Aptil that early, hence why he never voted him.

Bulbazak · Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:39 pm

Zekrom is at L-1. I expect intent and time for a claim/final reads to be given before a claim.

Btw, Toomai, if Zekrom is any flavor of scum, and what I think is going to happen happens, you better hope he's Ice, because otherwise, we're in Mylo tomorrow.

Bulbazak · Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:39 pm

He's right. Zekrom's dead.

Bulbazak · Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:32 pm

I did the math. We were at 11 yesterday, -2 after a lynch and NK, we're at 9 today. That means it takes 5 to lynch. Zekrom is dead.

Bulbazak · Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:47 am

Pretty sure Zek is ice. Yiley was a fire cop, and he was adamant about Aptil being town d2.

Bulbazak · Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:48 am

Also, after the Zek scumflip, if TSO is still around tomorrow and I'm dead, make sure you lynch him. He's scum in that case.

Bulbazak · Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:18 pm

Garmr, do you know if both sides are exactly the same power-wise, because if not, I might have fire scum.

Bulbazak · Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:22 pm

In post 1281, Garmr wrote:yes it is exactly the same why

What was this in reference to?

Bulbazak · Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:28 pm

Then TSO is conf. town. He neighborized me n1.

Bulbazak · Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:57 pm

This is a good way to get blacklisted from future games.

Bulbazak · Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:32 pm

I'm tempted to lynch you now and just deal with a fire scum Mylo tomorrow, since I feel you've essentially ruined the integrity of the game anyway.

Bulbazak · Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:11 pm

Well we have an extra lynch cushion, and enough PoE to figure this out. For me, it's between NJAC and Rache. TSO is conf. town, and I have a very strong townread on PV. I'm not voting either of them, period.

Bulbazak · Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:04 am

In post 1303, RachMarie wrote:Bulb why on earth do you have a town read on Pere?

Because when I did ISOs yesterday, I could see that he was genuinely scumhunting and trying to figure things out. His play reminds me more of what I've seen from him as town. The townread wasn't actually that hard to get.

Bulbazak · Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:06 am

TSO, who do you think is scum?

Bulbazak · Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:01 pm

Okay.

Vote RachMarie

Bulbazak · Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:39 am

I've said it's either Rach or NJAC, and I'm that confident in you and PV together.

Bulbazak · Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:30 am

In post 1321, RachMarie wrote: One fire and One ice most likely left.

There should be only 1 fire left, unless you know something we don't.

Bulbazak · Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:26 am

Why is NJAC ice-scum?

Bulbazak · Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:59 am

In post 1333, Bulbazak wrote:Why is NJAC ice-scum?

Answer this Rach.

In post 1334, T S O wrote:Bulba, do you think Rach is smart enough to pull that?

I'm not sure. She started posting on the page after Garmr got modkilled, so she'd have had to skip that. I'm not sure whether Rach is the type of player who will read everything, or whether she just reacts to what's happening on the current page.

@Rach: Did you read the updated opening post, or are you really just taking our word for what Garmr's alignment was?

Bulbazak · Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:07 am

The NJAC wagon or the Rach wagon?

Bulbazak · Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:12 am

I want to see her reply first.

Bulbazak · Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:41 am

In post 1349, RachMarie wrote:
In post 492, PeregrineV wrote:
Vote: Aptil

It was a crappy hammer.

Now, who had Maxous pegged as scum day1?

Also, Merry belated Christmas to everyone!!

In post 511, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 496, Desperado wrote:Why are crappy hammers scummy?
They are not, always. It depends on how it's done.

In post 496, Desperado wrote: Do you really think ice-scum announced their Maxous scumreads and then murdered him? That doesn't seem like good multiscum play to me.
Well, I think a player found Maxous scummy, and said it in the thread. Probably only once, maybe twice at the most. When they realized they couldn't get him lynched, they shut up, because they then figured they would NK him instead.
Granted, this is only speculation, and maybe it was an Ice member that Maxous called scum instead. But, it's a criteria to look for.

In post 546, PeregrineV wrote:The sum of Antihero posts were to vote Dry fit and accuse Toomai.

Why does that earn him death?

In post 547, PeregrineV wrote:Also, slowbrain now, but Maxous' group was the one that shot Antihero.

Pere's interactions with or about Maxous.

Not much here but it does seem odd that he was asking so much about who found Maxous scummy instead of focusing more on living players.

Pere is town and has been scumhunting both teams equally.

Bulbazak · Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:42 am

Ugh.... I ignore that quote in my post. I was going to respond to it and then decided to just respond to everything in general.

Bulbazak · Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:11 pm

I'm trying to decide how likely it is that Rach would skip the Garmr entrance into the day and subsequent modkill and flip. I'd hate for her to win by feigning ignorance.

Bulbazak · Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:49 pm

Why did NJAC have to be ice scum?

Bulbazak · Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:44 am

I'm still good with a Rach lynch. That is all.

Bulbazak · Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:13 am

In post 1373, RachMarie wrote: Bulb why would you be ok with lynching me? Do you have something like a case?

I actually thought PV made a good case, and I have a strong town read on him. I'm willing to trust him on this.

In post 1375, T S O wrote:I'm just so apathetic.

Well, we'll probably need to agree on who's getting lynched today. So...Rach or NJAC?

Bulbazak · Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:48 am

In post 1377, T S O wrote:Bulba, is it better if we talk in the QT? idk.

I don't think it matters. I'm off to get food and then D&D, so I probably won't be checking into this until later tonight at the earliest.

Bulbazak · Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:00 am

In post 1382, Aegor wrote:
In post 839, Bulbazak wrote:I have a lot to say, especially to Mastin, but there's another major reveal coming, and I promised to hold off. I plan on voting for Pacman, though.
Did I miss something? I cannot even remember what this reveal was.

TSO said he was going to reveal his role (which he claimed was a 3rd party that disappeared from the game after being on 2 town wagons and 2 scum wagons). After Penguin claimed, he dragged his feet on the claim. I even offered to claim our neighborhood anyway, but he told me to hold off. So I essentially had to back down from that d3.

The Aegor attack is bad. He calls Rach suspicious for saying she is low-hanging fruit. The problem is that the person she was talking about, Aptil, actually ended up being scum, so she was right. Also, the attack on her forgetfulness is bad. He's ignoring where she's constantly missed out on information in the thread. Now, I could understand if he said he believed it was all faked, but to skip it entirely and present the information as something other than it was is a massive misrep.

In post 1385, Aegor wrote:And I find it hard to believe you are low-hanging fruit in this game when you replaced ArcAngel on Day 1 and it is now Day 6.

And that makes her not low-hanging fruit how?

In post 1385, Aegor wrote:
@Mod: Do both scum teams have the same roles?

This is a useless question, only meant to make it look as if you're trying to figure things out. Garmr has already stated that both teams are all vanilla. We have no reason to doubt him, because he was throwing the game at the time. This means that he would have been completely truthful in everything he was saying.

Unvote

Vote Aegor

Bulbazak · Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:40 pm

In post 1388, Aegor wrote:@Bulba:

Misrep. I do not like people calling themselves lynchbait, but that is not the most substantial reason for voting her. First, POE basically restricts the lynch pool to myself, Pere, and Rach. Second, she would be a fire maf in all likelyhood, which means her accurate push on aptil is irrelevant. Third, her reaction to the Desp lynch was just plain bad. Fourth, I have not read the entire thread that closely so I apologize if I missed something.

You

did

call her suspicious for saying she was low-hanging fruit. How am I misrepping you? Was that not a point against her?

In post 1388, Aegor wrote: If she were actually low-hanging fruit she would be dead by definition. Unless our definitions differ.

Low-hanging fruit are easy targets for a mislynch. That does not necessarily mean that they

will

be mislynched.

In post 1388, Aegor wrote:
This is a useless question, only meant to make it look as if you're trying to figure things out. Garmr has already stated that both teams are all vanilla. We have no reason to doubt him, because he was throwing the game at the time. This means that he would have been completely truthful in everything he was saying.
I agree that he could have been truthful. Why not mod-confirm it? I already said I consider you both confirmed town. Why would you not rather actually be confirmed town?

Common sense tells us we're looking at even scum teams. Simple setup spec tells us we're likely looking at a low power game, meaning all vanilla teams. Also, this is a question that the mod will

never answer

. It's only purpose is to make you look good by asking it. Also, what's with the conf. town question? It almost sounds threatening. Also, as TSO said, I'm not conf. town.

In post 1393, Aegor wrote:Great. So one of Pere and I is scum. Game solved.

I have a strong town read on Pere.

Also, I'm a VT.

Bulbazak · Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:48 pm

In post 1403, Aegor wrote:
In post 1402, Bulbazak wrote:You
did
call her suspicious for saying she was low-hanging fruit. How am I misrepping you? Was that not a point against her?
No, I did not. You are more than welcome to quote
an explicit statement of mine
if you feel differently; I will concede then.

Oh, that's right. You didn't

say

it. You implied it. With emotes. That way when someone called you out, you could say, "I never

said

that. Misrep!", because calling misrep makes you look like a victim, and therefore, townier.

In post 1403, Aegor wrote: If scum consistently refuses to push a mislynch on low-hanging fruit, it seems that the fruit is not so low-hanging after all. In this case, potentiality need become reality for the definition of low-hanging to be fulfilled, otherwise we are simply making theoretical statements about how difficult it would be to lynch someone who is never actually lynched.

I never said that scum refuse to push such a mislynch. What happens in the case of low-hanging fruit not being lynched is that some town players noticed what was going on and called the lynch out for what it was. You never see a claim that X is low-hanging fruit after the fact, only during the push. If the term was only reserved for those who got lynched, this wouldn't be the case.

Bulbazak · Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:29 pm

In post 1405, Aegor wrote: And yet Rach claimed that she was low-hanging fruit

And yet you continue to avoid talking about how the person she identified as pursuing her as low-hanging fruit ended up being scum.

Bulbazak · Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:35 pm

So you're just dismissing all low-hanging fruit discussions, because it's multiball? "Well, it doesn't count because there are 2 scum teams." How does that negate the scum tell? If that slot was still alive, and we were trying to figure out who was scum, would you still dismiss the low-hanging fruit argument because of multiball? What other arguments would you dismiss? Should we even bother scumhunting as usual, or is it a moot point because of "multiball"?

Bulbazak · Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:28 am

16 hours to go.

Bulbazak · Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:12 am

In post 1418, Aegor wrote:Well, that was sad.

But not unforeseen. Were you going somewhere with this?

In post 1418, Aegor wrote: I recommend that we discuss, post reads, post recommendations for lynching, and then No Lynch and decide tomorrow.

We should lynch today. No lynching is not going to change anything. I'll be dead, and town will be left with Rach, PV, and yourself. There's no reason to drag this out to a day when there will be the same decision with 1 less person.

Bulbazak · Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:09 am

The only way town would get information is if scum was stupid and lynched someone who was actually a suspect.

Bulbazak · Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:26 pm

The problem is that it will be the exact same situation, only with the loss of the towniest player, which is most likely me unless scum do something stupid. Don't you get it? Tomorrow will be the exact same choice, only with 1 less person. No lynch will do nothing to help town. It will only place us deeper in the muck and present a situation of even more confusion. I will be voting one of Rach or Aegor. I just need help figuring out which one is scum.

Bulbazak · Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:20 pm

The same goes if we pick wrong tomorrow. It's the same choice either way. The difference is that one person is going to be missing, and that person is not one of the choices.

Bulbazak · Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:59 am

PV is a town read. I'm between Aegor and Rach. Leaning Aegor.

Bulbazak · Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:32 pm

PV, who do you think is scum?

Bulbazak · Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:38 pm

It should be noted that TSO seems to have had a townread on PV, since he added him to the neighborhood last night.

Bulbazak · Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:54 pm

In post 1437, Bulbazak wrote:PV, who do you think is scum?

Bulbazak · Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:15 pm

Freak out much?

Bulbazak · Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:30 pm

In post 1449, Aegor wrote:Are we even playing the same games? Or are you in a parallel universe where you are compelled to view literally everything I ever do as scummy, no matter how divorced from this reality your perceptions are?

This is funny coming from the guy who said he didn't care if he got lynched. Yet, you get 1 vote on you, and you suddenly pop back in the thread and freak out and try to cast doubt on PV. Were our suspicions really that surprising to you, even though we stated them earlier on the same page? Or is it now that there is a vote on you, the prospect of you losing is so much more real?

Bulbazak · Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:28 pm

I don't think he is, though.

Bulbazak · Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:32 am

In post 1460, JacobSavage wrote:
With 4 alive it takes 9 to lynch

Well we're never getting a lynch today...

Bulbazak · Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:36 pm

Vote Aegor

I really don't see anybody else as scum.

Bulbazak · Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:17 pm

I've had a scumread on your slot for awhile. PV was the only one making me think Rach-scum, and he seems to have rethought that read.

Bulbazak · Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:32 am

No. I'm actually shocked at the outcome.

Bulbazak · Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:26 am

PV decided to hold a private conversation in our neighborhood.

Bulbazak · Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:52 am

I'm not sure what just happened...

Bulbazak · Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:05 am

Aegor, what was with the quick vote and unvote?

More when I get back later tonight.

Bulbazak · Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:35 pm

Going to address PV here, since I don't see the sense in keeping the discussion out of the main thread.

I disagree that the Rach kill only points to me. As I said, you would have been the one I would kill, not Rach. An endgame with Rach and Aegor would be perfect, because then I could fake paranoia and uncertainty on who to lynch, all while cursing TSO and you for not making the choice easier. Both Rach and Aegor would be suspicious of each other and would likely cross vote, with me hammering whoever I want. Besides, I'd be afraid of your paranoia as scum, and I wouldn't need you alive in the neighborhood at all. In fact, I could pretend to have gotten last reads from you, which I could use to push the lynch on whomever I wanted.

The Rach kill benefits you in pretty much the same ways as you listed for me. You could use the neighborhood to buddy me and lynch Aegor, or you could act paranoid and aim for my lynch. An Aegor kill wouldn't really benefit you, because you'd have to really rely on the buddying, since Rach would be more likely to suspect you.

As for Aegor, I really don't think there was an optimal kill for him as scum. Sure you could argue that he'd want to disband the neighborhood, but he could always count on paranoia to work for him. Killing either neighbor has the high chance of leading to his quick death, especially since Rach was starting to suspect him. Killing Rach still leaves 2 alive that suspect him, but it also increases the chance of neighborhood paranoia.

I've actually been pondering whether you as scum would hold a QT exclusive conversation like we've been having. However, I don't see how that would be optimal for you as scum. I'd suspect that as scum, you'd have said everything in the thread and pushed hard for my lynch, rather than going back and forth in private. I really don't see how that benefits scum you. Also, I remember doing ISOs shortly after the Zekrom lynch, and I was immediately hit by your towniness, which means I can't see you being partners with Maxous or Desperado.

You've done ISO reads, what do you think? Do you really think that I bussed Desperado when there was no need to? Do you think I hard bussed him when nobody was looking his way?

I'll be honest, I haven't been impressed with Aegor's slot at all. NJAC felt incredibly scummy to me, and Aegor's entrance into the game felt contrived. I also think whatever he was doing with the vote/unvote was pretty fake as well.

Let's keep the conversation out of the QT and actually use the thread. What are your impressions based on your readthrough?

Bulbazak · Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:58 pm

Tbh, I wanted to read through PV's ISO one more time. I'm going to place my vote before the end of the day tomorrow.

Bulbazak · Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:14 am

I really can't see PV being scum.

Vote Aegor

Bulbazak · Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:18 am

I'm not scum. Are you scum?

Bulbazak · Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:42 am

Bulbazak · Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:48 am

If I was scum, you would have seen a very important key word by now.

Bulbazak · Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:19 am

I'm trying to remember what it was I saw in my ISO readthrough, but I think she might have made herself obv. town at one point, and Aegor was trying to play up the neighborhood paranoia.

Bulbazak · Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:36 am

Yeah, but as I said, he was pretty much screwed no matter who he killed.

Bulbazak · Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:39 am

Please tell me it's town karma and not "I get a win and fooled you" karma.

Bulbazak · Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:50 pm

In post 1531, Aegor wrote:
In post 1528, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1527, Aegor wrote:If I am understanding you correct, then my original assessment was right. I discerned that swinging a lynch on Rach with you, she, and I in lylo would be difficult given NJAC's history, so I tried to take advantage of the WIFOm of Bulb surviving. Killing you would ahve made no sense because Bulb was not going to vote for Rach anyway and Rach rightly thought I was off.
It almost worked.
I know. Bummer. It was a bit hard to influence the game when I replaced in so late...

Plus, we had a neighborhood we could talk in. A lot of the final day happened there.

And just for full disclosure: I was sheeping Mastin's read on NJAC after she died.

Bulbazak · Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:25 pm

In post 1541, mastin2 wrote:For the record, I am going to be trying to write post-game notes for this game, but this one's not exactly my top priority atm to tackle.
In post 1540, Bulbazak wrote:I was sheeping Mastin's read on NJAC after she died.
This kinda surprises me to learn, and I have to ask if it was driven by you or TSO.

I mean, my reads this game were fairly decent overall, but weren't stellar; I also had you as scum and PV as scum at different points, if you recall. What made my NJAC read more accurate than my other reads? (Other than it being correct. )

I had previously had NJAC as a scumread, but moved him to town, mostly due to the way he was buddying me. After you were NK'd and flipped town, I reevaluated that read and considered I was probably blinded by him agreeing with me and that you were probably right.