NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I think everyone is reading Casso as town thanks to derailing a lynch on somebody now regarded as probably town (though tbf megaderails for buddies aren't common anyway).
I wouldn't be ultraconfident off that but eh I'll get to him eventually.
I think that in general a lot of the townreads are being overstrengthed, with the possible exception of the ones on F16.
I don't particularly disagree with them though.
I'll do the should we actually lynch this guy post tomorrow.

No idea why people aren't townreading me even harder after Generic's flip. Going through his posts about me, it is somewhat obvious that several posts he made were meant to manipulate me including a lot of buddying like the fact that he points out that my recent contributions make me town, etc. I guess it is possible he could have made them with a buddy but his overall body of work seems geared towards buddying me and fooling me into thinking he is town.

Why unvote Titus? What's your latest scumteam looking like?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Stop sheeping Thor. The dude hasn't even read most of the game. Hop back onto the Titus wagon Sakura.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I partly want to get Titus lynched over SAD because Casso doesn't want it, partly because SAD's frustration about the wagon on him feels town. I want to see where this goes, i.e. if Titus flips scum, I'd keep more of an eye on Casso. This also seems to be the first time this game Thor cared so much about who is lynched.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

It isn't my birthday. I'd never fill in my real birthday for an online forum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Let's lynch Titus. It is a better vote than a self-vote anyways.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also, not impressed that Nacho is posting elsewhere but not here. He is just allowing Thor to clown around and create chaos.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What about Titus feels town?

GM

, what made you change your mind on Titus?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Town, but I'd be a little more paranoid. I'd be wary that ffery and Nat are good players and keep an eye on them just in case.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So, what point did you want to make about Geists? And why is Titus town?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

How did you develop a townread on Cephrir? All you said after your mega-argument with Cephrir is that he is "sadly" town. I don't get it. And I am completely discounting what Generic did after he got caught - it is null to me and WIFOM.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay. I agree that scum would likely have let it go instead of going "you don't get to do that" but it is a small point and he really didn't push you much after the wagon dissipated and you called him town. I think if he was town and actually believed you were scum, he would be more persistent.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, I agree that being investigated or confirmed can change one's game. I think most people tend to keep their reads closer to their chest because there is less responsibility to look town and show everyone that you are town if you are confirmed. That lets them evaluate the game state while keeping their own thoughts secret and you certainly strike me as that type of player.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So am I. It just makes me want to lynch Titus more.

Although I have a theory that they could both be scum. Neither votes the other. The people on the wagon are flexible and don't mind voting either. While others like zMuffin try to pull away from both and vote Proph instead while both Titus and Arthur are suspicious of Proph. It could be tinfoil hat but Titus/Arthur/Muffin actually make sense. Thoughts?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I actually think that Pie has a good point in 7221 about Arthur setting up a dichotomy saying that people leaving him alone are town whereas people continuing to push him are scum. I disagree with Arthur but I'm interpreting it more in the light of "

Arthur's townread on Cephrir is bad, Titus is actually scum

" as opposed to "

Arthur is scum using poor reasoning to get townreads

." Pie, what do you think of this?

Arthur, regarding 7229, Pie was the one who initially came up with the theory that you and zMuffin are scum together. I didn't find it remarkable that he agreed with that theory when I proposed it since he spent quite a bit of time developing it and walling about it even before I said anything.

GoodMorning, I strongly suggest we take Generic's behavior after he got caught with a grain of salt considering the endless amount of WIFOM in it. Did you find anything worth commenting on in Generic's and Cephrir's/Titus's interactions before he got caught?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I could have sworn I posted

I actually think that Pie has a good point in 7221 about Arthur setting up a dichotomy saying that people leaving him alone are town whereas people continuing to push him are scum. I disagree with Arthur but I'm interpreting it more in the light of "

Arthur's townread on Cephrir is bad, Titus is actually scum

" as opposed to "

Arthur is scum using poor reasoning to get townreads

." Pie, what do you think of this?

I don't get what you mean here. iirc he was referring to ceph's argument w/him earlier which would imply he's scumreading cephrir

I was saying that his townread on Cephrir was bad and that Cephrir/Titus is scum. Where are you at with your read on Titus?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Muh, I'll dedicate some time to this tonight, with it being the weekend and all.

Was peering at vote counts from phone and think Casso/Sakura are more likely town - have trouble seeing /all/ the scum jumping onto the opposing wagon, and scum don't usually vote right after the other.

MafiSSK (5) - KoreanBBQ, Sakura Hana, Cephrir, DOMO, pieguyn
KoreanBBQ (4) - MafiSSK, Casso the King of Seals, Generic, roflcopter

Liked the interactions Korean brought up, and I read back and liked Sakura's SSK vote.

Want to look at zMuffinMan, will do so when not posting on mobile. SAD feels a bit better, but want to reread.

I still want to lynch Titus. She hasn't responded to any of the points I've brought up against her, and is mostly coasting at this point.

Don't have an opinion about the "proving" masons thing - if you can do it, great, but if they're scum they'll be sorted out later in the game.

Everytime I see your "votal analysis," I feel an irresistible urge to insult you. I am really a bad person, lol.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Proph, the main issue for me with the votal analysis is that it relies WAY too much on conventions. For instance, that scum vote late on the scum wagons. What would you do if a player just votes erratically like Bert, or is at the tail end of most wagons (like ffery), or are in general just slow to vote/wagon (like me)? If you look at votes in isolation, it tells you very little unless the entire game has a very old-school, conventional style of play. You assume scum don't vote in blocs. I've seen players like Cabd specifically tell the scumteam to vote in blocs although I am not sure which game. You are using POE on wagons. I don't feel it is any better than just using POE for the entire game. When you are analyzing wagons like TOWN TOWN UNKNOWN TOWN TOWN, you have already developed those town reads. You could be wrong about those town reads which could mean that you are wrong about the unknown read as well. That works just like standard POE. I don't see the point of putting it from a "wagon perspective." I disagree with words being easy to fake whereas votes are not. Anyone can vote but to write persuasive arguments takes considerable skill. Your voting analysis also doesn't take into account the undercurrents of the game, i.e. which direction a lynch is likely to go, who is looking to compromise on whom - those things may influence further votes. My main issue is that you expect players to act in too conventional a way for your vote analysis to be useful.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

there's a giant stumbling block you'll have to overcome because that's the read I've invested the most time and brainpower into forming and it's become the type of read that's going to have to be pried from my cold, dead fingers.

Anything new that we haven't discussed?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Vote Titus with me. We'll make great things happen. I'll vote SAD/zMuffin with you tomorrow.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

\o/

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Indeed. This is your chance to develop a brand new F-16 meta model.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Faraday said to try it: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5350979

I am struggling to lynch my top suspect that I am confident will flip scum and the wagon keeps falling apart. What can I do to chivvy your vote there?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If I'm going to sheep someone about Ceph, I'm more likely to sheep nacho than you simply because if nacho is town, then he has incredibly strong motivation to get his Ceph read right this time. There are some things I want to check, though.

But he was wrong about Ceph the last time he played with him whereas I was right in guessing he was scum when I was spectating. He was also wrong about Titus the last time he played with her (ASOIAF) whereas I was right (again) in BB:HoH. That, and I am totally unconvinced that he is town, but even if you think he is town, it still makes more sense to sheep me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I too have plenty of motivation to get a Titus read right. I want to keep my membership in the "can read Titus" club. Not a lot of people have that, especially when people want to policy lynch her because they can't read her.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Mara, from what I know, you have extensive experience with Generic. Can you share a few thoughts about how Generic interacts with his scumbuddies? I think it will help me when researching through how he interacted with the other players.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

These are the posts where Generic sucks up to Pieguyn

:

Lol, sorry Pieguyn... I didn't even notice it was you asking me that question. I'm skimming while at work on the iPhone.

I sympathise with his position and felt he did well to battle everyone at once.

You are indeed correct. Awful misrep on my part, I apologise. Your back and forth is immediately after your vote on him.

I like this and its a convincing case for your vote

but I will point out that if you put SADs list of suspects against the SC wagon (which you did) you will notice the vast majority sit in that top two tiers where he has already stated are his main suspects.

What I agree with though is its been pretty empty in the analysis, because he has F16 as the only one from that wagon in his top town picks, and sakura hana in tier two (that's the cool tier btw, we have a bit of edge to us in tier two )

Now I can easily speculate why these two are excempt from suspicion but I want SADs reasons and his thoughts on their connection to the SC wagon. If we are gonna be doing wagon analysis (since he took such exception to me doing so with KBBQ) lets have that conversation.

On other business, I love how geists now has this more cinical and carefree edge to their posts since getting effectively a cop clear. You can call it being butthurt if you like, unless you are a scum cop (which btw I find rather stupid logic to have been thrown out this early in the bloody game) you guys represent the first one I know I now have read wrong

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Mara, I have a hard time seeing these as scum-scum interactions. What are your thoughts about that? Would Generic interact with a buddy that way?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

ISO Minions from BB:HoH mafia: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... overview=1

Ctrl+F for "Bulb" "Gnomeo" and "Peacebringer", his scumbuddies. At no point does he suck up to his buddies. He sucks up to townies all the time though. "Excellent point," "Excellent analysis" - phrases like that are littered throughout his ISO whenever he interacts with townies.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Norl
Pie
SAD
Muffin

we lynch through this list of players, in no particular order, and this game should be done. If it isn't, there shouldn't be no more than one scum left, and this list

KBBQ
Proph
Titus
Sakura
Casso

should contain that last scum, assuming they are all alive at that point

I agree that KBBQ, Proph, and Sakura are town. Proph's recent posts about Generic interactions feel genuine. I also have a townread on Pie. I feel that the most likely scumteam are Titus, Arthur, and Muffin. I think we should lynch Arthur.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Subject: mini1510 PAUL WALKER MEMORIAL flights of angels sing thee to (Pie-scum game - Grimgroove is his buddy)

not only that but I was questioning Windblown earlier while my vote was on Slandaar. why isn't that one suspicious, when in Grimgroove's case it is?

This game:

it doesn't change the fact that you're supposedly interested in looking at the information from the lynch. but then when Generic tried to do that exact same thing, you apparently found it to be silly. either way, your thought process is contradictory as fuck

I dislike the similarities of these patterns. I am having second thoughts again after re-reading his posts in other games. He feels town. I

want

him to be town since we agree so much. But I wonder if it is too good to be true.

How does it fit into your own meta-model?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I want him to be town since we agree so much. But I wonder if it is too good to be true.

Same for Norl as well. I don't know. The scumteam could be Pie/Norl/xxx and I've been blatantly wrong all game about Pie. I don't want to dissolve into a state of complete paranoia though at this time. Arthur did defend SSK in a really weird way, almost as if he felt it was unfair that scum was getting deadline-wagoned through sheer luck. Mara/Sakura (both strong townreads) agree as well.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Giests, why do you refer to me as "they?"

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Giests, why do you refer to me as "they?"

Sorry, I meant Arthur.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

short version:

i think bert was scum, if this thread is still open when i wake up, i'll pull up stuff that stood out to me (and i'll pull up the interactions with generic/ssk that i thought felt off while i'm at it)

as for proph himself, i don't get the feeling he's actually trying to find scum. all the scum hunting he's doing looks fake. the VCA stuff was nonsense, and now he's moved on to counting interactions (and calling people town for having more interactions without actually analysing the interactions).

I don't agree with his results but I feel the effort he put in feels town. He is one of those people that put more effort as town than scum. I meta-dived him as soon as he replaced in and the one thing I was looking for was whether he was going to be really involved and put in a lot of work. Look through his completed town and scum games. Also, Bert felt town. Proph's initial lack of effort gave me cause for concern but he's alleviated that considerably.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I feel better about SAD as well. There was a point when he was being wagoned that I just didn't feel like he would actually flip scum. I agree with the Muffin-push. I think it is Muffin/Titus/xxx.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Will look more into this possibly the next day but I'll post the links here for easy access.

Prophylaxis:

TOWN: Open 496: Ryuk is the protagonist, Newbie 1420: Fireproof

SCUM: Newbie 1396: A New Adventure

He replaced out of the scumgame but those are the only three non-marathon games he has on the site.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am thinking we should lynch zMuffin. What are your thoughts?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'll be here at least till tonight.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am down to hammer zMuffin unless anyone wants to wait longer.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, I'll hammer him and we'll find out. I actually want to lynch Muffin more than Titus at this point. He seems like a really good bet for scum and I hate to see an L-1 wagon on likely scum wither away into nothingness. We can get Titus next.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

VOTE: zMuffinman

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, so SAD is town. Now why do you think I'm scum so we can get that out the way and work together.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

ok so I don't know how I feel about this

on one hand I finally got a zmuffin-scum lynch and I'm ecstatic. but on the other hand YOU DID IT WHILE I WAS GONE AND I DIDN'T GET MY SPOT ON HIS WAGON T_T

vote: SAD

there were several places where zmuffin was cherrypicking in favor of SAD which makes me think scum buddies. I'll write it up later but the summary is he had a townread on SAD despite SAD doing a lot of shit he accused other people of doing. this makes me think his townread on SAD was entirely made up and they're scum buddies. with that SAD has scum-scum interactions with all 3 flipped scum

What are his scum-scum interactions with Generic? I must have missed them.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, so SAD is town. Now why do you think I'm scum so we can get that out the way and work together.

Idk you acted really weird towards the end of yesterday.

Well, I thought you were scum, then I thought you were town, then I thought you were scum, then I thought you were town again. I guess it would come out wierd if you weren't able to follow my read on you.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Oh and I call you "they" because I always thought you were female till recently when I actually read the gender area but kinda still think you're female so call you they instead of having to go through the trouble of reminding myself

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I still think Titus is one of our scum because Cephrir's posts looked so fake. I need to re-read some of his towngames to see if how his posts look to me there.

Norl looks okay on a re-read but I need him to seriously step it up. Llamarble can be obvtown when town.

Casso actually looks pretty bad because the mutual pushes from Casso and zMuffin went nowhere and I feel they gave up too easily. zMuffin was never convinced that Casso was town but he stopped pushing them. Nacho too was scumreading zMuffin all along but his contribution to the zMuffin lynch was surprisingly insignificant.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also like I don't think Titus scum would ignore the hell out of the muffin wagon like she did towards the end there.

This is actually a good point.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

here SAD jumps on SC (I assume it's bc they were the biggest wagon at the time) and Generic follow suit. Generic's reason was kind of sketchy and comes way out of left field (if you dual iso Generic + SAD the bit about "mental patient stick" comes out of nowhere) and feels made up

But it is just as likely Generic as scum voted someone that was being wagoned, couldn't he? (With Arthur being one of the townies on the wagon)

here Generic gets a scumread on me and in SAD's next post he immediately follows. this also explains his magical flip flopping read on me

You made several posts in between those two posts and you were pushing MC Maraca. Isn't it probable that Arthur as town suspected you for your posts and pushes regardless of Generic's vote on you?

here SAD votes F-16, Generic postures for a jump on F-16 wagon. the F-16 read literally comes out of nowhere (I don't think Generic ever gave any sort of read on F-16 at all before this)

MC, BRO, and Arthur voted me after which Generic postured for a vote on me. How does this speak to Arthur's affiliation?

same thing. right after SAD's argument with Ceph Generic comes in with an out of nowhere Ceph scumread. if you ISO Generic and SAD and ctrl+F "ceph" Generic was hardly making any mention at all of Ceph in the period before SAD's argument with him

Are you saying Cephrir was scum? Where are you at with Titus right now? Also, what do you think of 4359? Arthur accuses Cephrir of not agreeing with Muffin which would be rather unusual if Arthur and Muffin were buddies. Also, why is Arthur/Generic scumteam more likely than Arthur-town/Generic-scum based on Generic agreeing with Arthur and scumreading Cephrir right after their argument? I think your point about arguments that didn't go anywhere has some merit but most of Generic's arguments felt that way. For instance, his scumread on Geists D1 went nowhere. His push on DOMO early D2 went nowhere. What sets apart his interaction with Arthur in a way that they are likely scumbuddies? Why is it more likely than Generic following a townie (Arthur)?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am less sure about Titus. I still think she could be scum. It just seems unlikely for scum to neither bus nor derail a scumlynch but just let it happen. It just seems so unlikely that when SAD, Titus, and Muffin are the main wagons, she continues pushing Hana and Casso as scum as opposed to explain her position with regards to Muffin and Arthur or jump onto the Arthur mislynch if Arthur is town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Vote Norlkaz

He's the last one on my PoE list; I have varying degrees of townreads on everyone else.

Can you explain your Casso townread?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I still think Titus is one of our scum because Cephrir's posts looked so fake. I need to re-read some of his towngames to see if how his posts look to me there.

Norl looks okay on a re-read but I need him to seriously step it up. Llamarble can be obvtown when town.

Casso actually looks pretty bad because the mutual pushes from Casso and zMuffin went nowhere and I feel they gave up too easily. zMuffin was never convinced that Casso was town but he stopped pushing them. Nacho too was scumreading zMuffin all along but his contribution to the zMuffin lynch was surprisingly insignificant.

My contribution to the Muffin lynch wasn't significant because the flash wagon appeared out of nowhere and at a time when there was already a pretty great wagon on my top suspect. It never went anywhere because I haven't actually been confident in reading Muffin until now and went through a time of self-doubt caused by the only significant thing him he actually ended up doing the entire game being a weak shit push on me and nothing else.

Okay, but you spent a lot of time accusing zMuffin of being scum, pointing out how his sorting of you was scummy, how he wasn't pushing you as hard as town-Muffin would, yet you never lead a lynch on him in typical town-Nacho fashion. Our experience in Zachgame compounds my worries because it was really easy to see you as town there based on the way you pushed people, especially Wisdom and you looked quite town even before you added the "led a scum lynch" badge to your chest. You know you have the pull to drive a lynch through if you believed in it and you did push the Desperado lynch and wagoned Sakura and SSK to L-1 on D1, so why was there never a strong push for lynching Muffin? As the game went on, your push only became weaker and you distracted yourself with Arthur who I am struggling to see as scum right now. The push on you from Desperado was enough for you to lead a lynch on him, so why didn't the same thing apply to zMuffin?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also like I don't think Titus scum would ignore the hell out of the muffin wagon like she did towards the end there.

This is actually a good point.

Why not? She is awkward about bussing buddies (I can finally say this now!).

Can I see a link? You seem to be implying you just finished a game with scum-Titus.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Alright, so I've decided to completely go AWOL from here until my finals are over (aka the 22nd). This is too much of a distraction; my apologies.

If I post here again, consider it a scumclaim and kindly lynch the shit out of me for my own sake.

This means I will not be here if I am run up. After some deliberation I have decided not to claim now. Do with that as you will. I am not currently physically capable of caring. I would leave you my reads but I think they are probably pretty worthless and I think you're better off not rolling with them if I die anyhow.

VOTE: SC for being a smarmy scumbutt. I can hear them cackling with glee that I'm a viable wagon from here.

Good luck today, bye.

I'm not sure what to make of it other than that he is complaining about his lack of time, and voting SC. What did you make of it?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If Casso is scum, that means that (1) he bussed the encryptor d1 by attempting to deadline lynch him and (2) he bussed the JoaT, which doesn't make much sense.

(2) felt more like distancing than a bus so I am not sure.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So after taking out conftowns/very strong town, we have:

F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Prophylaxis
Norlkaz
Ser Arthur Dayne
Titus

And we have 5 lynches left so do the math and... voila!

I don't agree with your list. I think Norl, Proph, and I are a heck of a lot more town than Casso. Me-Generic interactions make me fairly obvtown as well.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

It'll probably end up being Casso + Titus.
Proph, Pieguy, F16 all tried pretty hard if scum.
GM Mara me are town
SH did stuff
SAD & BBQ have decent "Eh" dosage levels

His reads resonate at some level. They are bold, and out of the blue, but make me think that it could be possible.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I kinda think there are 4 scum left but here's a good list to keep it on the safe side and assume 5 scum:

Casso
F-16
Norlkaz
Titus

We should 100% hit a scum. And if the two scum aren't dead and/or the game isn't over, we'll be al 3p LyLo, then you just simply lynch:

KBBQ

And GG.

I thought Titus was a superstrong townread of yours. What hapenned?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Why would scum-casso try to deadline lynch an encryptor D1?

This is actually a really good point.

Why wouldn't he? Ssk was relatively useless so if I were in his place I would bus the shit out of him as early as I can also. Also you're over-estimating the power of an encryptor? Yes, some scumteams really benefit from it. But others couldn't give a shit about daytalk that much.

But a skilled scumteam like Generic/Muffin/Nacho/Thor would use daytalk to the maximum and reap its benefits very well. The only caveat to this is that Casso may have expected SSK to claim a PR to let him live longer. But it STILL shortens SSK's life anyways so I doubt it.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

He's also a player who is not likely to obvtown unless roles, and thus makes a decent lynch.

Notice how this also looks like it is setting up ssk for fake-claiming.

I wondered this too but wouldn't Casso just tell him in the scum QT to claim doc?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

whatever we do we should lynch everyone else before Casso bc Casso scum -> Sakura scum

unless you think Nacho-scum would deliberately piss Sakura-town off (I assume he knew about all her RL issues)

also I'm fine with MC

I don't follow the logic. Why wouldn't scum-Casso want to try to mislynch town-Sakura and then back off when she reacts emotionally? I mean, this is a game and scum need to mislynch townies to win. I see no reason why Nacho would let real life interfere with a game. He backed off because Sakura's emotional reaction pointed towards a town reaction so either he saw town there and backed off (if he is town) or he knew others wouldn't let the mislynch go through (if he is scum) and pretended to see town and backed off.

I am not seeing the logic that Casso can't be scum without Sakura also being scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

That's a good list but I am not feeling Norl for scum and am paranoid as hell about Pieguyn and his point about never lynching Casso made me fear a Pie-Casso team. Re-assure me as to why he is town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Well it's actually not that bad tbqh but F-16 belongs on it.

It is kinda retarded that you still think I am scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also you do realize the muffin lynch wouldn't have went through if I hadn't pushed it right?

To be fair, it wasn't your push that caused Muffin to get lynched, it was that most people had Muffin as a scumread so when Geists brought up that idea, we pushed it through. My contribution was probably more than yours so it doesn't make sense clearing yourself while still scumreading me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You do realize if my vote wasn't on muffin the wagon wouldn't have gone through?

If you can't see that then idk how to help you.

When you had your vote on him, he didn't seem like a viable lynch of the day. You were a much more viable lynch. It was only after the rest of us started pushing the lynch that Muffin lynch became a real possibility.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

That actually makes more sense with you as scum. Hypothetical scenario: Muffin pushes a counter-wagon to you and Titus. It appears that he is failing in his efforts to derail your lynch. You vote Muffin to distance from him on your way down assuming that he will look better on your scumflip. But then Geists and the rest of us get a hard on for a Muffin lynch and lynch him instead. You can't unvote because it would be a scumclaim. You had to remain committed to the bus you never wanted to happen. Your posts hardly did anything to drive a Muffin lynch. You were many people's top suspect and the influence from your posts was quite low.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I have absolutely no clue why are acting as if changing my mind is scummy. Enlighten me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I actually missed that. It still doesn't refute the point I am making: You voted zMuffin with the thought that it was you who was going to be lynched, not him.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Your scumread on me makes zero sense. I don't get how you can read this game and still think I could be scum. I haven't played a game with you outside of a hydra and you seem to have changed your playstyle a lot since then. Why do you expect me to be one of the few people who can read you?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So.... if I were to flip scum would it not just point top muffin being scum because people would've concluded he had no chance of being

scum

lynched and thus conclude that I voted him in a distancing effort

That depends on the people making the analysis.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Your scumread on me makes zero sense. I don't get how you can read this game and still think I could be scum. I haven't played a game with you outside of a hydra and you seem to have changed your playstyle a lot since then. Why do you expect me to be one of the few people who can read you?

Because glimpses here and there in this game make is seem you can follow my chaotic playstyle.

Yeah, I can see that considering some of your posts early on like "you are the only reasonable person in this crazy town" or something like that which I can't be bothered to check but your accusations make no sense. You are as good as taking two separate positions I've held and acting as if it is some sort of contradiction and I have no idea why town-you would do that.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't get how you can read this game and still think I could be scum.

Because your playstyle has changed 180 degrees in the past few days and I'm attributing that partly to the stress of being scum in a losing battle.

How has it changed?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am thinking KBBQ, Sakura, Proph, and Norl are town. Those are my top four townreads. Eliminating them, Mara, and GM, we still have Pie, Casso, SAD, Titus. I think Pie could be town but I am not certain.

I pretty much want to lynch Titus because I can't for the life of me see Cephrir being town the more I think about it.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't get how you can read this game and still think I could be scum.

Because your playstyle has changed 180 degrees in the past few days and I'm attributing that partly to the stress of being scum in a losing battle.

How has it changed?

You've become much MUCH more waffle.

Paranoia usually sets in late in the game.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Masons, I am sorry. I missed a page. The masons are almost certainly town. That is unless my paranoia keeps them alive, so maybe they aren't.

VOTE: F 16

This read seems to have come out of nowhere.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, but if he doesn't take advantage of any mislynch he can, he would be playing against his wincon, wouldn't he? That would be a downer for everyone that invested their time into the game.

Who are you thinking is scum right now (besides Titus)?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Although thinking back on it, the way he tried to persuade me to vote Sakura felt incredibly town and reminded me of the way he addressed me in Zachgame (the last one where we were both town), so that's comforting.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, that makes more sense. I disagree but I can see it as a legit thought process.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

VOTE: Titus

This is L-1.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

GM, get in here and hammer Titus.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What do you mean "checks out?"

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't think there are any more PR's but sure, let's get Titus's claim.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Great job town, especially Pieguyn. The last few posts were incredible. I think town overall played really well and I am glad to get a chance to play with this playerlist. Scum played well too, they had three top tier players but unfortunately, one got caught by the JK. My only regret this game is my D1 play and I think my suspicions of MC Maraca were really off-base and I completely misread the situation and failed to diffuse it which is what I should have done. Mara and Cabd have my apologies. That's something I'll keep in mind for future games and try not to push scumreads when there are heightened tensions. Also, it allowed Nacho to whiteknight me which let him grab towncred so there's that too. I think most of the town played excellently. I do think that scum were outnumbered. 4/20 was rather low especially with a town vig. I think a less skilled scumteam would have been crushed especially if the vig wasn't lynched D1. But other than that, awesome game. Thanks for modding Empire and for the timely vote counts and day starts.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, the game had a lot of fluff. Props to those that re-read closely.