NY 171: An Education in Telling Jokes (Game Over!)

[Green Crayons]

Hey, look. Posts.

...what?

unvote vote Marquis

Seriously though, UT's vote on Marquis is really awful.

Vote: Untrod Tripod.

Seriously though, UT's vote on Marquis is really awful.

Vote: Untrod Tripod.

bitch please

@Tripod Do you want to explain your vote?

@Tripod Do you want to explain your vote?

Do you want to ask everyone else to explain their vote, or have you already chosen today's mislynch?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: tman2nd

aaaaaand Marquis is town. town block party!

unvote vote tman

Thus: VOTE: Tripod

[Green Crayons]

2. the wking that he did? I am wondering how you could have missed it.

I'm assuming you're referring to Post 17? That looks more like buddying more so than white knighting.

If anything, Marquis's Post 34 is a better example of white knighting. (It was actually tempting to vote Marquis rather than Tripod when I was laying out the posts back in Post 71, but I ultimately thought Tripod's play was more suspicious than Marquis and therefore that's where my vote went.)

[Green Crayons]

@mod:

Playerlist:

21. Green Canyons[/color]

That player does not exist.

-----

@DeathNote:

All three of those posts that I quoted- 15, 20, and 34 had one common factor and that was him pushing mislynches, even if it was in a joking, "weird" way. You want to mess around like that once, fine... but when you consistently posting in an anti-town fashion, the I feel that warrants a vote.

Why do you think scumminess is the reason why people don't post Super Serious in the first 35 posts of a game?

-----

@Marquis:

Please define white knighting for me- I know the term, but I feel like it'd be interesting to hear your interpretation of it,

since apparently I'm not allowed to call out a bad and unnecessarily selective question.

Bolded is something I never said, nor even implied from my very limited foray into the discussion. Your weird defensiveness is noted.

White Knighting is simply assisting another player by either bolstering their defense or undercutting the attacks against them. I don't think either of those two actions are inherently a bad/scummy thing, because if you think an attack on another player is BS, you should be able to voice it. The white knighting starts looking more scummy when it starts to look like scum jumping the gun and criticizing an argument against someone they know is town/defending the player they know is town.

Additionally, if I told you right now that UT and I were Bulletproof Mason Lovers, would you believe it?

No. But then again I wouldn't think you were being serious. Incidentally, I don't think RC was being serious in Post 115, either.

[Green Crayons]

I read both Mollie and Elyse as leaning town.

That's all I have at the moment.

[Green Crayons]

Oh I got another town read. All votes on Zekrom are bad and you should feel bad.

This is your only post. What are your other town reads?

[Green Crayons]

Oh, I see my mistake. That's what I get for going through each option of the display posts by user list.

[Green Crayons]

@DeathNote:

All three of those posts that I quoted- 15, 20, and 34 had one common factor and that was him pushing mislynches, even if it was in a joking, "weird" way. You want to mess around like that once, fine... but when you consistently posting in an anti-town fashion, the I feel that warrants a vote.

Why do you think scumminess is the reason why people don't post Super Serious in the first 35 posts of a game?

I don't think this is how I would have worded this question but I think I understand what you are asking? Would you agree that most players play differently as scum then they would as town? That is how they are normally found out. Some players even go to extremes by posting in a drastic fashion. For example, I tend to be slightly less aggressive as scum while posting more nonsense. My extreme is spamming posts while be unsure of what I really want. I have seen other players not post at all as scum while being active as town. Everyone's play style is different but I suppose that's common knowledge right?

In this case, I see his erratic play and "sarcastic" mislynch push as scummy because he is playing to an extreme.

The point of my question gets to the bolded part of your post: why do you think erratic play and "sarcastic" mislynch pushes that happen within the first 35 posts of a game are attributable to scumminess rather than, say, stupid and typical RVS behavior?

[Green Crayons]

I'm not interested in a Zekrom lynch. He looks like he's a very new player playing as if he is a very new player.

How scandalous.

[Green Crayons]

Exactly. He looks like he's posting as if he is very new. Oh my stars, there is no indicated alignment! If I'm not picking up an indicated alignment, why would I be interested in voting him?

[Green Crayons]

I'm more comfortable with my vote being on you rather than changing it to someone who is a null read, and whose "RIDICULOUSLY useless" characterization can be attributed to at least five other players who equally (if not more so) lack any meaningful posts.

[Green Crayons]

I am unimaginative.

I will reread the thread and come up with a "not quite as scummy as Tripod" list in the near future, though.

[Green Crayons]

Hey look, I did a reread. Eyes did start glazing by page 15, so I was skimming at that point. If/when I do another reread, I'll probably review pages 15+.

@If I Wasn't Voting Tripod, I Would Vote DeathNote:

·

DeathNote's Post 60, which was his first "real" post of the game, strikes me as incoherent. He quotes three posts from Marquis, none of which have any real connection other than the fact that Marquis authored them. His characterization of Marquis's play is "weird," which when stated in the vacuum that is DeathNote's Post 60, makes no goddamn sense.

- Also in Post 60, DeathNote is incredulous that Tripod thinks Marquis is town (questioning Tripod's Marquis-is-town declaration with "HOW?!?!?!?!"), but somehow thinks Marquis is the scummier player coming out of Pages 1-2. This suggests some linkage between DeathNote and Tripod if either flips scum.

-----

·

DeathNote's Post 61 -- which I admit caught my eye because Elyse's criticism of Post 61 was in the back of my mind upon reread -- is equally incoherent as Post 60, but for different reasons. Basically, instead of calling another player's string of unrelated posts as weird, he feigns ignorance about an exchange between Mollie/Elyse while asking about the exchange between Mollie/Elyse. It makes no sense.

- DeathNote's Post 109 and Post 257 conveying his inability to understand this point of criticism is unconvincing and strikes me as an evasive tactic to hope the issue just dies.
- DeathNote's Post 281 is unsatisfactory in answering Elyse's points Elyse initially raised in Post 98 and restated in Post 266. In particular, I take issue with: (1) DeathNote handwaves his lack of following up to any real degree as being sidelined by his preoccupation with Marquis, but this suggests that a player can only focus on one thing at a time. (False.) (2) DeathNote fails to explain his nonsensical "I didn't notice this thing that I'm now talking about" segue he utilizes to ask Mollie about her opinion.

-----

·

DeathNote's Post 102 is bad because it justifies the incoherent Post 60 on the basis that Marquis's quoted posts don't include "the intent to scumhunt."

- On its face, this is a bad argument because Marquis's Post 34 (which was the third target of DeathNote's "weird" commentary) is actually Marquis shifting away from the purely RVS reasoning of her other two quoted posts. (Incidentally, I disagree with Marquis's Post 34 reasoning/vote, but that doesn't mean it lacks "the intent to scumhunt.") So Marquis's posts don't actually validate DeathNote's supposed reasoning.
- Getting past the fact that the argument doesn't hold up on its own terms, there's the fact that DeathNote thinks a lack of "intent to scumhunt" is a valid characterization of posts that clearly reflect the incredibly stupid but inevitable RVS -- seeing as how all of Marquis's "weird" posts were made within the first 35 posts of the game. Most RVS posts don't measure up to such a standard. It's a bad standard to employ, but DeathNote champions it without hesitation.

-----

·

DeathNote's Post 103 is more bad justification of the bad Post 60. Here's the money quote: "All three of those posts that I quoted- 15, 20, and 34 had one common factor and that was him pushing mislynches, even if it was in a joking, "weird" way." NOPE.

- (1) Marquis's Post 15 is her making a nonsensical comment about Nikanor. Unclear how this is pushing a lynch of any sort.
- (2) Marquis's Post 20 is what appears to be a RVS vote in light of the reasoning (that Elyse might "power up"). Unclear how this is "pushing mislynches."
- (3) Marquis's Post 34 is actually moving away from the RVS vote mentality for reasons stated above. Super x2 unclear how this is "pushing mislynches."
- In effect, DeathNote's Post 103 conflates the phrase "pushing mislynches" with "voting another player."


-----

·

DeathNote's Post 113 perpetuates the bad justification of Post 60 by further mischaracterizing Marquis's posts. Here, it's: "No one else who has voted did it with the sarcastic tone of mislynching." Marquis never justified her Post 15, 20, or 34 as being sarcastic mislynches, even though that's exactly what DeathNote is implying here. (She did question why tman had "chosen today's mislynch" in Post 34, but that's not what DeathNote is saying in Post 113.)

- Post 113 can be summed up as "Marquis's RVS behavior is scummy because it is RVS behavior."
- DeathNote ignores the RVS stage component when he further justifies his Post 60 in Post 257.
- And then in Post 328 apparently DeathNote's reasoning is that "Not all RVS behavior is scummy, but Marquis's RVS behavior is scummy because it is excessive RVS behavior." Unclear how Marquis's three posts constitutes "excessive" RVS behavior in both the sense that how can three posts of anything be considered "excessive," and the fact that Marquis's three posts are not the unadulterated RVS behavior that DeathNote claims it to be (as discussed above).

-----

·

DeathNote's Post 411 marks where DeathNote finally "lost interest" in Marquis, though it is truly inexplicable why because he has been so adamant about his bad Post 60 logic for so long, and has not repudiated it.

[Green Crayons]

@Gooner:

VOTE: Green Crayons

I felt his vote on UT was just as bad as Zekrom's but Zekrom's the one getting all the heat for it. Best I have at the moment.

I actually checked this out since I was rereading the thread. As of the time of your Post 83, Zekrom and I were both voting Tripod, but for clearly different reasons. What made my reason "just as bad" as Zekrom's? While we're at it, you can also explain why Zekrom's justification for his Tripod vote was bad, because I now think his reason for voting Tripod was valid.

(Hint: you should also explain why you decided not to pursue another player -- not Zekrom -- who voted for Tripod for the same reason I did.)

(Double Hint: that player should be upset that you narrowed your focus to only one player, instead of asking every single person to whom the question applied. Or, at least, they should be if they want to be consistent with their early game criticisms.)

Oh I got another town read. All votes on Zekrom are bad and you should feel bad.

Slightly creepily that line has become a bit of a catchphrase on the other site where I play Mafia.

But yes the sentiment is one I definitely agree with. It's why my vote is on GC at the moment.

While we're at it, perhaps you can explain why you think "all votes on <player> are bad and you should feel bad" is a sentiment you agree with, but apparently as applied to Tripod. What makes Tripod so incredibly town in your view?

-----

@Porochaz:

Every time he fails to either answer me or mollies questions I am sure he is scum. Their is a difference between a newbie not knowing what he is doing and what zekrom is doing. A newbie not knowing what he is doing will A. ask more questions, B. Clam up and eventually replace or C. give a few non commital reads and then panic when people question them further.

What zekrom is doing is failing to engage with anyone, I mean the questions that have been asked of him are me asking for his thoughts. An oh so generic and easy question to answer in almost any way he chooses and a question by mollie asking if he had finished double checking the thing he said he was, all she wanted there was engagement. There is a complete lack of getting involved here, so much so that he is actively avoiding it. The most he has done is ask me what my point was when I quoted a post of his early on in the game, I replied and I wasn't expecting some sort of poetic response but was expecting some sort of acknowledgement.

There is also the questions he is asking, again if you are asking Player X, what are your thoughts? Then it is the start of a dialogue (or monologue!) between players. This has not happened, not even a "why didn't you answer my question?". It either suggests a total lack of interest or scum not knowing what he should be doing. Im going with the latter, as the former scenario would have either replaced out by now or would not be posting at all.

This explanation is more convincing than the general "Zekrom posts are bad" vibe I got from the other votes, but I'm still not comfortable with what amounts to a policy lynch on Day 1.

-----

@List of Comfortable Town Reads:

In no real particular order, but players who struck me as probable town:

•

Elyse

: because of her Mollie interactions, general observations, and the fact that my suspicions upon reread happened to dovetail with her own (e.g., her Post 98 criticizing DeathNote's Post 60).

•

Marquis

: because I think she and Tripod are not the same alignment (and I think Tripod is the scum), because I think overall her posts have contributed to the town, and the fact that my criticisms upon reread happened to dovetail with her own (e.g., her Post 110 criticizing DeathNote's Post 103).

•

Mollie

: because her Elyse interactions struck me as town, and her posts just have a town "feel" -- but I'm also a sucker for being duped by free-form posting as a sign of town, so that's problematic. More concerned about my town read after Porochaz's Post 456 highlighting the fact that Mollie tunnels when she's scum.

•

Porochaz

: because his characterizations of other players' play are generally spot-on in that I agree with a lot of what he says (though I try not to give too much credit to particularly obvious observations that would be difficult to disagree with), and I think his method of questioning-others-then-following-up-after-letting-it-simmer reflects a town sentiment of wanting to pursue worthwhile leads.

[Green Crayons]

And I do plan on further justifying my Tripod vote, but I want to hear back from Gooner first.

[Green Crayons]

@Mollie:

crayon thing this post looks good on its own but body of work? she isn't measuring up. her vote is on me but she isn't doing anything to firm up the read or doing a lot to push her nonexistent case.

I think the same criticism can be lobbied against you in your pursuit of the Elyse vote, and with the same degree of validity. Y'all's unconvincing back-and-forth tunnel vision on each other is what strikes me as two towns going at it.

-----

@Gooner:

I was referring to the inital post where you voted on UT which I believe someone declared was hyper-town. I didn't see the reasoning and voted. Since then I haven't seen any explanation of the vote.

The explanation should be pretty apparent from the posts quoted in my Post 71. In fact...

(Hint: you should also explain why you decided not to pursue another player -- not Zekrom -- who voted for Tripod for the same reason I did.)

Tman? He actually explained his vote-namely that Tripod refused to answer a question. You didn't

...No, not Tman. Tman voted Tripod in Post 53 for what appears to be essentially the same reason why Zekrom voted Tripod in Post 73.

I was referring to Marquis. (I didn't catch this until my reread.) Marquis actually stated the reasons for my own vote with her vote back in Post 49.

I'm not quite sure how my "unexplained" (scare quotes) Tripod vote could be "just as bad" (actual quotes, per your Post 83) as Zekrom's explained vote. That denotes some sort of equivalency between my vote and Zekrom's vote that I don't see. After all, I wasn't voting Tripod for the same reason as Zekrom, and you didn't even think I had a justification for my vote (unlike Zekrom). Please clarify your Post 83 comparison of me and Zekrom.

Oh I got another town read. All votes on Zekrom are bad and you should feel bad.

Slightly creepily that line has become a bit of a catchphrase on the other site where I play Mafia.

But yes the sentiment is one I definitely agree with. It's why my vote is on GC at the moment.

While we're at it, perhaps you can explain why you think "all votes on <player> are bad and you should feel bad" is a sentiment you agree with, but apparently as applied to Tripod. What makes Tripod so incredibly town in your view?

Nope, I was referring to Zekrom and the votes on him which are bad. My vote on you is more for active lurking. Tripod's null for me, the votes on him are pretty bad but I haven't seen anything town indicative in his behaviour.

This explanation is nonsense. You explicitly said the reason why you were voting me is because of the sentiment that "all votes on <player> are bad and you should feel bad." You now stating that Post 252 stated that you were voting me because of some other reason (active lurking) is just a blatant falsehood.

[Green Crayons]

The last 200+ posts are energy draining to read. Take aways:

•

Ythan's fake dayvig strikes me as scummy.

•

I'm further convinced Zekrom is a bad lynch.

•

Formerfish looks scummy pre-fake-dayvig, and looks null post-fake-dayvig, so that balances out to looking scummy. For what it's worth, Fish's belligerence in Post 575 matches his belligerence in Post 217. This only shows that he is consistently belligerence, which is not really indicative of town or scum, though apparently it's different than his normal play style (see EPM's final line in Post 219).

•

Gooner is a leaning town read.

-----

unvote

Lost interest in Marq. STFU you're still weird.

wait fuck i forgot his claim

i'd give him one night to confirm it??? idk but i don't think he'll be nightkilled anyway if real so..... actually idk the correct play in this situation

I want to lynch you.

More of the same.

I'm lazy and don't have the willpower to expand my justifications for my Tripod vote. Plus I really haven't processed Tripod play in the slog that is everything that was posted between yesterday and today. So I'm going to instead VOTE: DeathNote for reasons stated in Post 464. His play since that post doesn't dissuade my suspicions and in some instances actually reconfirms his scumminess. I will address a Tripod vote tomorrow.

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: DeathNote

Why, what a great choice, Green Crayons. Maybe others will also vote for that player.

[Green Crayons]

I would be happy with Nikanor targeting either:

2. PeregrineV
17. evilpacman18
18. RadiantCowbells

[Green Crayons]

By Nikanor I mean Zekrom. Not sure why I got those two mixed up.

[Green Crayons]

@Mod:

Vote Count 1.4

Formerfish (5) - Nikanor, Matias, Gooner, Elyse, Ythan
Zekrom25 (4) - pisskop, evilpacman18, Formerfish, tman2nd
Untrod Tripod (3) - Green Crayons, Zekrom25, Marquis
Marquis (2) - RadiantCowbells, DeathNote
Gooner (1) - PeregrineV
DeathNote (1) - Green Crayons
Nikanor (1) - pirate mollie

Not Voting (4) - OhGodMyLife, Malakittens, sthar8, Untrod Tripod

You have me voting two people. DeathNote was my most recent vote.

-----

@Zekrom:

hmm....

Here's all you need to think about:

2. PeregrineV
17. evilpacman18
18. RadiantCowbells

[Green Crayons]

The bolded seems like you are pacifying Mollie and it is fishy because you were just all "BRING IT ON" with her.

Disagree if you mean "BRING IT ON" = only sthar's Post 819's "are you scum this game?"

The underlined is OTT and unnecessary and looks like you are faking towniness.

Agree.

[Green Crayons]

@Zekrom's night kill:

I've whittled my list of acceptable deaths down to PeregrineV and EPM. I'm happy for either to go, so I don't care if he makes a game-time decision as to which gets picked.

-----

VOTE: sthar

(1) Because Elyse's Post 972. In particular, sthar's interaction with mollie strikes me as scum trying to get into the good graces of a player they think will go to bat for them if convinced.

(2) Because sthar's Post 1009 looks like scum trying to push -reasons- to lynch a player other folks have already voiced a willingness to lynch. It looks that way because sthar's reasons are really quite bad (pointed out why below), but he gets the double benefit of looking like he's actively scumhunting (e.g., "look at this effort!") while being able to fall back on the fact that plenty of other players have already also stated Marquis suspicions (e.g., "alas, I, like all those other town, were mistaken").

- sthar uses quotes isolated from their context to concoct a scum motivation for their content while ignoring the ongoing discussion to which these posts were responding.

- sthar mischaracterizes what Marquis's posts are actually about. For example, Post 748 is talking about DeathNote, not Zekrom. And the ambivalent/sure point is based on Post 599, which speaks more to how Marquis feels about Fish than Zekrom.

- sthar thinks that finding fault with believing a vig-night-kill plan can actually survive scum fuckery even though scum are fully aware of what that plan is amounts to scumminess because... unclear. I am apparently unaware of sthar's extensive knowledge of all those times that scum haven't screwed an early-game, out-in-the-open town's night action plan, so that expressing doubt as to its success is no longer a "legitimate reason" to not champion such a plan.

[Green Crayons]

provide a suitable alternative

Full disclosure Sthar does give me the heebie jeebies

Found one.

[Green Crayons]

provide a suitable alternative

Full disclosure Sthar does give me the heebie jeebies

Found one.

How does it feel to know that you have to cut part of a post out when you reply in order for you response to fit? Does it feel bad? It should.

Irritated Ythan is irritated.

Your full quotes make the same point, I just cut the fat. Here, look, I'll even use your FULL UNEDITED POSTS and coordinate so that bold phrase corresponds with bold phrase, underlined phrase corresponds with underlined phrase:

Vote obvious scum

,

provide a suitable alternative

, or eat rope.

Full disclosure Sthar does give me the heebie jeebies

but

we hAVE FORMERFISH TO FRY

I don't even think you understand what I was saying.

My point was, was that you yourself have identified your requested "suitable alternative": sthar. I didn't need to include the parts of your post that were irrelevant to my point.

That said, it looks like you're all grumpy because you thought I was suggesting you were a suitable alternative? I wasn't.

-----

But seriously GC did you just pop by to say that?

Yeah it definitely looks like you're getting defensive to the notion that I was suggesting you're a "suitable alternative."

[Green Crayons]

I'm spoilering to make this not eat screen.

Still happy with my vote.

[Green Crayons]

A suitable alternative is not one that is not as good. GC u r dumb.

Willfully obtuse Ythan is willfully obtuse.

-

You

think Formerfish is "obvious scum." (Post 1041.)
-

You

wanted obvious scum (Fish) lynched, or a "suitable alternative." (Post 1041.)
-

I

am saying sthar is scum, and have not subscribed to your Formfish is "obvious scum." At most, Formerfish's play on balance has been scummy, but far from "obvious scum." (Post 709.)
-

I

am saying that because I think sthar is a pretty good scum candidate, and because

you

yourself have acknowledged that sthar gave you the "heebie jeebies," (Post 1032)

I

think that sthar fits under

your

request for a "suitable alternative."

-----

Literally GC walled to make the point that another character "gave me the heebie jeebies" and that I should lynch them instead of scum. And has done shit else lately.

Is it possible for you to be more bad at being scum?

[Green Crayons]

I have given up here. You all have 24 hours to say who you want to vig by underlining it. Zekrom doesn't get a vote and if you don't do it by tomorrow 1pm GMT you forfeit your vote. Sound fair? I don't care.

@Zekrom's night kill:

I've whittled my list of acceptable deaths down to PeregrineV and EPM. I'm happy for either to go, so I don't care if he makes a game-time decision as to which gets picked.

-

vig: PeregrineV

-

vig: evilpacman18

I agree with whoever said we shouldn't narrow it down to one person. So I'm giving options!

[Green Crayons]

First:

How does it feel to know that you have to cut part of a post out when you reply in order for you response to fit? Does it feel bad? It should.

But seriously GC did you just pop by to say that?

A suitable alternative is not one that is not as good. GC u r dumb.

Literally GC walled to make the point that another character "gave me the heebie jeebies" and that I should lynch them instead of scum. And has done shit else lately.

And then:

<succinct explanation responding to Ythan's repeated bad posting>

Guess what nobody cares.

Heh. I look forward to voting you tomorrow.

-----

Still happy with my sthar vote.

[Green Crayons]

Marquis is a bad decision. Sthar is a great decision. Scum-lynch derailed.

[Green Crayons]

I'm the actual fucking oneshot vig. I tried to shoot him last night, fucker's probably mafia bulletproof.

VOTE: Zek.

Still think Ythan looks scummy.

[Green Crayons]

I'm having paranoid thoughts about despy putting in double 1-shot vigs. From what I've seen zek's level of shitness doesn't actually correlate to his alignment, so I'm not convinced by yesterday.

This came to mind, but Cabd specifically said that he targeted Zek, and that the kill didn't go through. So one of them has to be lying, unless if there was a scenario in which Zek was protected (why would doc protect a one-night vig when it was

this

one-night vig?) or where Cabd was blocked.

[Green Crayons]

Z-man. Who did you target.

That did almost nothing for me. Liking Marquis less, UT less.

Cabd

Also, just noticed this post. Both claimed one-shot vigs targeted each other? (Note that Zek claimed to target Cabd prior to Cabd's coming out.) If Zek flips town, Cabd is scuuuuuuuuuuuuuum.

[Green Crayons]

ythan <--- like srsly ythan if you are town what are you doing

ythan's contribution to the game: fake claim day kill hardline push for the doc's lynch.

[Green Crayons]

I really don't remember much except I wanted to do this.

VOTE: Ythan

I need to do some sort of reread.

[Green Crayons]

I'm here, men. Will be voting evilpacman18 later tonight, after work.

I remember also thinking that this was a good idea. I forget if I posted about it today, though.

[Green Crayons]

I actually think epm could be scum but that response by Nikanor was horribad.

x2

[Green Crayons]

Skimmed posts. Happy with my vote.

I'm still pretty happy with lynching from Cabd's scum list

If this happens, would be happy with making a PeregrineV vote.

[Green Crayons]

Do you have any scum reads?

Sure I do.
Green Canyons & pirate mollie.
I thought Marquis, but he may have done something to remove it.
Serrapaladin is hanging around this area too, for now.

Null
5. pisskop
17. evilpacman18
20. tman2nd
Deathnote

Town
10. Malakittens
6. Yates
9. Untrod Tripod
11. Elyse
13. Nikanor
14. Ythan
15. Porochaz
18. RadiantCowbells

Tman the parrot.

Honestly

, I am down to lynch one of the following:

Tman
Peregrine
Mala
Nikanor
Marquis

A brief line of "why" for each could bolster support for lynching that person.

Pot. Kettle. VOTE: Peregrine. Also because the reasons the confirmed town stated.

[Green Crayons]

Too slow.

[Green Crayons]

Is Page 41 (where Nikanor's Post 1023 is found) from Day 1?

[Green Crayons]

The mighty Ythan rises from the depths of his icy slumber. The liquid currents break against his hardened skin, but he feels nothing. Deep within that pit at his core, that blackened maw of nothingness, he has finally felt a calling. An imperative. He must go forth, and so he does. Finally, at long last, rays of light pierce through the thick black. Much later, he can actually see what he can only imagine is sky situated above the water's surface: a brilliant blend and swirl of reds and oranges. Some unknown language stirs in the depths of his memory, and he knows the idea of sunset. Eventually, his body breaks the surface of the water, and he finds himself naked and cold on the shore. He has arrived, and that imperative demands compliance.

bangingmmyheadonmydesk.gif

Sated, that internal call dies. The mighty Ythan feels release, and the energy quickly drains from his figure. The deed done, he returns to the wordless sea, a much more wearied creature than he arrived.

[Green Crayons]

Is Page 41 (where Nikanor's Post 1023 is found) from Day 1?

Yes.

This doesn't make sense, Yates.

I realize that now. I was thinking that was from day 2. Just realized in my response to GC it was still Day 1.

Meh. I still don't like him and don't have a better vote.

Hold on, I still see a problem with that quote. He was giving Zekrom a vig target in bold saying that he knew Gooner was scum, but he wasn't serious? That doesn't seem right. It can't think of a scum motivation for it, though.

This is an observation that I, too, had. I'm not quite sure why Yates is back peddling and/or doubting his original suspicion.

As an aside, tman2nd has generally voiced opinions that I have held, and therefore I believe him to be town.

[Green Crayons]

I misread Zek hardcore, but that does not make me scum.

I agree with this, mainly because I find "misreading Zek = scum" to be a poor accusation in light of the fact that I misread Zek and am not scum.

Yes and because at the time I had heard from people whom I wanted to hear from. I didn't vote him because I didn't want a QL for a D2 because QLs never help town. I wanted Cabd to post, I wanted to hear some of his thoughts even if I don't agree with them all.

I seriously don't get why because me not insta voting him D2 makes me scummy.

Mollie whom chose to still sling mud at Cabd by calling him his scum buddie or a SK goes unnoticed and untouched, but me who didn't call Cabd anything gets the rope. Mollie discredited the lynch more than me D2.

So when were you planning on voting Zek -- as soon as Cabd posted? Why the Mollie vote in the meanwhile? Would you have preferred a Mollie-lynch over a Zekrom-lynch on Day 2? (It's not the lack of an insta-Zek vote that I think has some traction in terms of scumminess, but the fact that you decided to vote for another player.)

[Green Crayons]

I also want to hear more out of Green Crayons and Elyse.

I find that I don't really have much to say at the moment. I want mala to respond to my post, and in the meanwhile I'm happy with my PeregrineV vote.


I'm happy to do a recap about my feelings about players. For ease of future reference, I'm even going to include a bold notation as to those who I would be comfortable lynching today.

2. PeregrineV: willing to lynch today for reasons stated in Post 1659. (

Happy to lynch.

)

4. DeathNote: I thought was scum for about the first half of D1, and now I find him neutral. Hasn't done anything exceptional since that point in time, which I think might be attributable to the blowup between him and UT right about when his posting seemed to drop off. That strikes me as discouraged town, rather than scared scum licking his wounds.

5. pisskop: no real read. I just wrote a snippet about some minor feelings I had towards pisskop, only to do a quick double check and realize that they were not about pisskop at all, but another player. This leads me to conclude that I have absolutely no feelings about pisskop.

6. Yates Matias*: no read

7. pirate mollie: town

8. serrapaladin OhGodMyLife*: I realized I didn't have a read on him and then realized I couldn't actually put even a personality with the name. 9 posts all game. Would lynch this lurker today. (

Happy to lynch.

)

9. Untrod Tripod XLAV: town

10. Malakittens: leaning scum. (

Happy to lynch.

)

11. Elyse: still town in my book.

12. Marquis: still town in my book. I've read the posts about people who think she's scummy, and they didn't strike me as solid enough suspicions to take the time and synthesize and think hard and deep thoughts about.

13. Nikanor: no read.

14. Ythan *: I feel like he's pulling a "I'm hot shit" gambit and the only one who is noticing that it isn't working (and shouldn't be, because Ythan hasn't exactly delivered this game) is tman. Would be happy to vote again. (

Happy to lynch.

)

15. Porochaz: still think he's town

17. evilpacman18 *: I would have been happy to lynch today -- I recall in my distant memory where EPM played more or less like he has this game (basic actively lurker scum template) and he was scum GF or something silly like that. Plus there were some pretty good suspicions thrown about earlier by another player re: EPM that struck me correctly. I don't know how I feel now that he's going to be replaced. (

Happy to lynch.

)

18. RadiantCowbells: leaning town. He's been pretty quiet with the occasional not particularly helpful tidbit, so I guess possible lurker scum, but he doesn't really strike me that way.

20. tman2nd: solid town

21. Green Crayons: me

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: Malakittens

There is a lot of resistance to her wagon which IMO is a good sign. Most of the resistance is talking about why she isn't scum rather than why she's town, which is another good sign.

Can you provide specific examples of what you're talking about?

[Green Crayons]

@ Yates:

VOTE: Malakittens

There is a lot of resistance to her wagon which IMO is a good sign. Most of the resistance is talking about why she isn't scum rather than why she's town, which is another good sign.

Can you provide specific examples of what you're talking about?

That's actually a good point and the first thing anyone's said that has me reconsidering my mala read. You'd think a mala mislynch would be easier [though I recognize my role in preventing it]. I'm the only one that's actually questioned the

case

on mala - maybe Pere to a certain degree - and yet she isn't lynched yet. Some people aren't voting mala for reasons yet unknown and no one has really presented a stronger scum read, myself included.

(1) I'm not quite sure why you quoted me, instead of quoting the source you're agreeing with (Elyse's post). I'm not saying it isn't a good point, I just want specific examples that motivated Elyse's comment for future consideration before we see Mala's alignment.

(2) Why should we think a Mala mislynch would be easier?

(3) So if Elyse's point is a good one (your words), and you're claiming that you're pretty much the only person who she could be talking about in making her point, why shouldn't we lynch you tomorrow if Mala flips scum? If Mala flips town, why isn't your observation a duplicitous, self-serving statement -- that is, you were the lone voice of reason speaking out against the misguided Mala-wagon?

(4) Why are you voting Mala?


-----

@Ythan:

Pretty satisfied with

claimed scumread

from crayons and tman.

I don't even understand what the bolded means. I have a pretty good idea what you're suggesting ("obvscum" or the equivalent), but that actual phrase makes no sense to me. How is a scumread claimed? I want to make sure I understand the full scope of your wrongness.

[Green Crayons]

I'm gonna be honest, if she honestly is a town encryptor who gives daytalk to any groups that could have it

I don't even know what her role claim means, but I definitely don't understand this mechanic.

Explanations, please.

[Green Crayons]

(2) Why should we think a Mala mislynch would be easier?

2 - A mislynch on a prod dodger IN GENERAL [ie. not just because it's Mala] is typically pretty easy in lieu of a solid scum suspect or lead.

I'm confused. Are you saying that this general rule is applicable here?

(3) So if Elyse's point is a good one (your words), and you're claiming that you're pretty much the only person who she could be talking about in making her point, why shouldn't we lynch you tomorrow if Mala flips scum? If Mala flips town, why isn't your observation a duplicitous, self-serving statement -- that is, you were the lone voice of reason speaking out against the misguided Mala-wagon?

3 - If she flips scum I'm sure I'll be lynched tomorrow so I'll worry about that if she flips scum. If she flips Town I don't care if you think my observations were "duplicitous" or "self-serving" so long as my actions enable me to figure out who the scum driving the wagon is. I note that you phrased this as a "heads I win, tails you lose" sort of question. Were you aware of this when you were typing it out?

I found your post suspicious, and then deduced that it is suspicious regardless of how Mala flips. I think more scummy if she were to flip scum, but still scummy if she were to flip town.

(4) Why are you voting Mala?

4 - Lack of options in a game with marginal activity and 1 day left.

Cop out answer. Who would you rather lynch instead?

[Green Crayons]

read the motherfucking thread etc.

I don't even know what her role claim means, but I definitely don't understand this mechanic.

Explanations, please.

You first. You jackass.

I don't understand what her role means.

"I give daytalk to anything that needs daytalk." What does that mean? What is a thing that "needs daytalk"? As far as I know, nothing needs daytalk.

[Green Crayons]

scum, masons, neighbors, etc

Alright. I'm guessing such roles aren't told that their daytalk ability is conditional.

-----

So when were you planning on voting Zek -- as soon as Cabd posted? Why the Mollie vote in the meanwhile? Would you have preferred a Mollie-lynch over a Zekrom-lynch on Day 2? (It's not the lack of an insta-Zek vote that I think has some traction in terms of scumminess, but the fact that you decided to vote for another player.)

I was planning on voting Zek yes, but I was waiting for people to post. I can't go after another scumread in the meanwhile to see how she would act? Zek wasn't not getting lynched and he was priority. Sorry, but I rather have my voice go on Mollie while I'm waiting for others so they know it's there.

I see a difference in following up on suspicions of another player while an obv lynch is ongoing, and actively pursuing another player (via vote) in the face of an obv lynch. I know conflating the two makes your defense easier, but I don't think that's a valid position to take.

VOTE: Malakittens

[Green Crayons]

Oh, that quote box is messed up. The inside quote is me, and then the response is Mala.

[Green Crayons]

Mollie has a habit of tunneling which leads me to believe she might be town? I really don't care enough to read into her at this point with so many other better options.

RC is town. The best we can do with her is try and convince her to vote with town.

How do you get a townread off RC?

VOTE: Malakittens

There is a lot of resistance to her wagon which IMO is a good sign.

Most of the resistance is talking about why she isn't scum rather than why she's town, which is another good sign. I also think her flip will be informative and it's not like she's being useful.

Why would "a lot" of resistance to her wagon be a good sign? Malascum would have only one or two scum buddies who could conceivably be providing the type of resistance to a wagon to make that wagon look more appealing to join. How are you synthesizing those two points that stand in opposition to one another?

@GC
Yates is really the only one giving solid reasons against the Mala wagon, but as I said, he's not saying she's town - just not scum.

Other people are just saying Mala is meh and not a priority

, but literally no one is saying OMG stop voting Mala she's town guys. And unless Mala is realllly bad I don't see everyone scumreading/nullreading/not giving a shit about her if she's town.

I did a quick skim of what I thought was the relevant portion of D3, and I didn't see posts to back up this bolded portion of your explanation. Can you please provide examples?

[Green Crayons]

Also, as a follow up: I'm curious what takeaways you have from her flip, as that was part of your Post 1821 justification for voting Mala.

[Green Crayons]

Yeah Nik is probably scum that was pissed off at Zek for his bad play then coached him into a claim using day talk. I consider this post a slip.

I like this theory.

I want Elyse to answer me though.

[Green Crayons]

...can we please just do a utility lynch on RC

Disagree.

-----

Vote: Yates.

Can't really explain why I think this guy is scum, but I really think this guy is scum. I think it has something to do with him asking the wrong questions (such as his question to Marquise in 1986 (the post, not the year)). It looks like he's trying to gather information that really has nothing to do with finding scum.

I agree that Yates' questions seem "off." Not enough to make me vote him over Nik, Serra, Pere, or Ythan, though.

-----

Elyse

, please stop ignoring my Post 1956 and Post 1957.

[Green Crayons]

@Elyse:

*continues to ignore GC*

I think we are in a good place atm and I don't want to change the focus of everyone. My scumreads are being scumread by other people so I'm not going to ~rock the boat~.

You purposefully ignoring me makes me more suspicious. I initially didn't think there was much suspicion to be gleaned from a response to my questions, and so there wouldn't be a ~*~distraction~*~ from Nik/serra/etc.

-----

@PeregrineV:

I honestly don't understand what point(s) you're trying to make re: DeathNote. You're quoting posts not but providing context as to why you think they're suspicious. Please explicitly connect the dots for me.

[Green Crayons]

@GC
What is the point of the questions if you don't think suspicion could be gleaned from it?

1. "Suspicion" is not the only thing any player can be looking for when they ask someone a question.
2. I didn't say I didn't think suspicion could be gleaned from it. (Your words.) I said: "I initially didn't think there was

much suspicion

to be gleaned from a response to my questions." As in, there was the potential for suspicion, but I didn't think much would come from it.
3. Just because I have had you marked as town in my player list doesn't mean that I should critically re-evaluate my list of town players, especially after another player gets flipped scum and one of my town-read players was a late-time addition to the scum's bandwagon with motives I'm not entirely certain about. My questions were probing that potential for a mistaken read.
4. Even if you aren't scum, I want your rationale for your vote to be better explained, so I can continue to keep you in the town column.
5. Especially if you aren't scum, I want your insight re: your take aways from a scum flip.


So answer my damn questions, please. Your avoidance of my questions has successfully made a ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~distraction~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~. That (really bad) excuse is no longer applicable.

[Green Crayons]

3. Just because I have had you marked as town in my player list doesn't mean that I

shouldn't

critically re-evaluate my list of town players, especially after another player gets flipped scum and one of my town-read players was a late-time addition to the scum's bandwagon with motives I'm not entirely certain about. My questions were probing that potential for a mistaken read.

Fixed.

[Green Crayons]

Plenty of time for Elyse to respond to my questions, and for notscience to stop perpetuating EPM's lurkerdom.

[Green Crayons]

I'm sure Elyse has had plenty of time to come up with answers to my questions.

[Green Crayons]

My game endurance evaporated at the beginning of today's game day.

I believe past Green Crayons was most comfortable with a serra lynch over the other names being thrown around (Yates, Marq), and so that means my present self will trust my past self.

I want to do some rereading before committing to a vote.

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: Ythan

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: Ythan

Of all the votes... why?

1. Display Posts By User: Green Crayons
2. Control + F
3. Type in: Ythan

Plus, Ythan's play in the previous day aligns with prior suspicions.

[Green Crayons]

The closer we get to the end the less I can chalk your tunneling up to being terrible at mafia.

Mischaracterization. It's not "tunneling" when I have voiced suspicions of you in tandem with voiced suspicions about other players, and now that those other players are no longer alive, and you are still alive and still playing scummy, that I vote you.

[Green Crayons]

I also want to hear more out of Green Crayons and Elyse.

I find that I don't really have much to say at the moment. I want mala to respond to my post, and in the meanwhile I'm happy with my PeregrineV vote.


I'm happy to do a recap about my feelings about players. For ease of future reference, I'm even going to include a bold notation as to those who I would be comfortable lynching today.

2. PeregrineV: willing to lynch today for reasons stated in Post 1659. (

Happy to lynch.

)

4. DeathNote: I thought was scum for about the first half of D1, and now I find him neutral. Hasn't done anything exceptional since that point in time, which I think might be attributable to the blowup between him and UT right about when his posting seemed to drop off. That strikes me as discouraged town, rather than scared scum licking his wounds.

5. pisskop: no real read. I just wrote a snippet about some minor feelings I had towards pisskop, only to do a quick double check and realize that they were not about pisskop at all, but another player. This leads me to conclude that I have absolutely no feelings about pisskop.

6. Yates Matias*: no read

7. pirate mollie: town

8. serrapaladin OhGodMyLife*: I realized I didn't have a read on him and then realized I couldn't actually put even a personality with the name. 9 posts all game. Would lynch this lurker today. (

Happy to lynch.

)

9. Untrod Tripod XLAV: town

10. Malakittens: leaning scum. (

Happy to lynch.

)

11. Elyse: still town in my book.

12. Marquis: still town in my book. I've read the posts about people who think she's scummy, and they didn't strike me as solid enough suspicions to take the time and synthesize and think hard and deep thoughts about.

13. Nikanor: no read.

14. Ythan *: I feel like he's pulling a "I'm hot shit" gambit and the only one who is noticing that it isn't working (and shouldn't be, because Ythan hasn't exactly delivered this game) is tman. Would be happy to vote again. (

Happy to lynch.

)

15. Porochaz: still think he's town

17. evilpacman18 *: I would have been happy to lynch today -- I recall in my distant memory where EPM played more or less like he has this game (basic actively lurker scum template) and he was scum GF or something silly like that. Plus there were some pretty good suspicions thrown about earlier by another player re: EPM that struck me correctly. I don't know how I feel now that he's going to be replaced. (

Happy to lynch.

)

18. RadiantCowbells: leaning town. He's been pretty quiet with the occasional not particularly helpful tidbit, so I guess possible lurker scum, but he doesn't really strike me that way.

20. tman2nd: solid town

21. Green Crayons: me

[Green Crayons]

That answers two of the points I could glean through all of your bluster.

You're basically taking a "I'm obviously and incredibly right, and my rightness stems from the fact that I'm obviously town, and therefore my townness and rightness is unquestionable and I'll barrage anyone who says otherwise was insults and sarcasm" tactic, and it looks like scum bluster.

I noted it in Post 1822, and it has continued since that time. Up to and including your interactions with Serra and about how everyone should be voting Serra lest they be True Newbies.

[Green Crayons]

Either I'm right and you're scum or I'm wrong and have never been very good at this game. But it's my suspicion and I'm sticking to it.

[Green Crayons]

Good luck. <3

After you've assessed that my suspicions are not up to par, I see that you've safely retreated from slandering my play as being scummy. Good to know you kick up a whole bunch of dust as soon as someone votes you!

Keeping my vote.

[Green Crayons]

Good luck. <3

After you've assessed that my suspicions are not up to par, I see that

you've safely retreated from slandering my play as being scummy

. Good to know you kick up a whole bunch of dust as soon as someone votes you!

Keeping my vote.

Are you making this up as you go along.

That didn't happen.

You are literally too much, don't worry you'll have your turn.

You're making my vote more comfortable the longer we go on. I lynch liars, too:

The closer we get to the end the less I can chalk your tunneling up to being terrible at mafia.

So I'm literally reading your iso to try to prove to myself that you're not retarded

and failing. Explain your vote on me with like a big boy.

Wooow it took forever to drag you onto those two scum lynches.

Guys open Desperado's iso, ctrl+f green, start hitting enter and watch.

[Green Crayons]

Oh is this the part you were supposedly responding to:

Good luck. <3

After you've assessed that my suspicions are not up to par,

I see that you've safely retreated

from slandering my play as being scummy. Good to know you kick up a whole bunch of dust as soon as someone votes you!

Keeping my vote.

Are you making this up as you go along.

That didn't happen.

You are literally too much, don't worry you'll have your turn.

Then I point out:

That's pretty dumb/not where I can imagine putting my vote in town-gc's shoes but as long as you're up front about it.

Good luck. <3

Also, lol @ Ythan's additional discrediting of anything I say when his statement of "That didn't happen" was about as opaque as a glass of milk, and I responded accordingly.

[Green Crayons]

In sum, just so you can't bluster more about Just How Wacky That Green Crayons Is Being!: my first response showed you slandering my play as scummy, my second response showed you retreating from that hardline stance.

[Green Crayons]

And, as a final cap: yes, yes that did happen.

[Green Crayons]

The deadline for Day 6 is Monday, April 8th, at 8:00 PM EST. With 11 people alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline in (expired on 2014-04-17 20:00:00).[/area]

Monday is April 7th. Is the deadline Monday, or Tuesday (April 8th)?

[Green Crayons]

I'm not really following the Ythan-GC thing

It's quite simple:

1. I vote Ythan.
2. Ythan calls me scummy for <reasons>, and says I don't have a basis for voting him.
3. I clarify my reasons for voting him.
4. Ythan says those reasons are weak.
5. I make a submissive post or two where I agree that maybe my scumhunting skills are pretty weak.
6. Ythan, sensing victory, then retreats from his stance that I'm scummy, satisfied with my own posts that presumably undercut the veracity of my own suspicions of Ythan.

In-between all of this, you get insults and words words words from Ythan. And lots of questions about things already answered. The goal of which is to muddy the water, I presume, as Ythan is scum in my book.

[Green Crayons]

It's quite simple

Is that why you aren't on the NS wagon? Or do you think NS is town?

Because one more vote will lynch NS.
Because I'm waiting to see if NS actually posts anything.
Because the only thing I recall being chalked up to NS = scummy is someone saying that Mollie said to vote him.


I said I was willing to vote EPM for being an active lurker. NS, being EPM's replacement, has not done much to change that perception of the slot. That said, I can have multiple suspicions and right now I prefer pursuing my Ythan suspicions with a vote.

[Green Crayons]

He has beef with me but can't back it up.

GC is trying to kill it

So many lies.

[Green Crayons]

VOTE KAGAMI VOTE NOTSCIENCE VOTE PACMAN VOTE THE SCUM SLOT

I want to verify that the only thing supporting this lynch is the EPM's and Notscience's lurking behavior, right?


That's enough for me to vote to lynch, I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything else.

[Green Crayons]

Also, reading through that Day 3 again made me realize we should lynch pisskop.

And if pisskop flips town we should lynch UT and if pisskop flips scum UT is basically conftown.

Based on your Day 3 reading, do you think the reverse of your flip-reveal holds true -- that is, now that UT is flipped town, pisskop's replacement is likely scum?

[Green Crayons]

He has beef with me but can't back it up.

GC is trying to kill it

So many lies.

This is an intelligent way to address your concerns. Let's see where it leads.

Ythan: "but MY one-liners are acceptable!"

[Green Crayons]

And, to actually underscore that I have actual substance to my points, in contrast to your flurry of "look at these idiots" barbs:

He has beef with me but can't back it up.

This is a lie, because:

The closer we get to the end the less I can chalk your tunneling up to being terrible at mafia.

Mischaracterization. It's not "tunneling" when I have voiced suspicions of you in tandem with voiced suspicions about other players, and now that those other players are no longer alive, and you are still alive and still playing scummy, that I vote you.

I also want to hear more out of Green Crayons and Elyse.

I find that I don't really have much to say at the moment. I want mala to respond to my post, and in the meanwhile I'm happy with my PeregrineV vote.


I'm happy to do a recap about my feelings about players. For ease of future reference, I'm even going to include a bold notation as to those who I would be comfortable lynching today.

2. PeregrineV: willing to lynch today for reasons stated in Post 1659. (

Happy to lynch.

)

4. DeathNote: I thought was scum for about the first half of D1, and now I find him neutral. Hasn't done anything exceptional since that point in time, which I think might be attributable to the blowup between him and UT right about when his posting seemed to drop off. That strikes me as discouraged town, rather than scared scum licking his wounds.

5. pisskop: no real read. I just wrote a snippet about some minor feelings I had towards pisskop, only to do a quick double check and realize that they were not about pisskop at all, but another player. This leads me to conclude that I have absolutely no feelings about pisskop.

6. Yates Matias*: no read

7. pirate mollie: town

8. serrapaladin OhGodMyLife*: I realized I didn't have a read on him and then realized I couldn't actually put even a personality with the name. 9 posts all game. Would lynch this lurker today. (

Happy to lynch.

)

9. Untrod Tripod XLAV: town

10. Malakittens: leaning scum. (

Happy to lynch.

)

11. Elyse: still town in my book.

12. Marquis: still town in my book. I've read the posts about people who think she's scummy, and they didn't strike me as solid enough suspicions to take the time and synthesize and think hard and deep thoughts about.

13. Nikanor: no read.

14. Ythan *: I feel like he's pulling a "I'm hot shit" gambit and the only one who is noticing that it isn't working (and shouldn't be, because Ythan hasn't exactly delivered this game) is tman. Would be happy to vote again. (

Happy to lynch.

)

15. Porochaz: still think he's town

17. evilpacman18 *: I would have been happy to lynch today -- I recall in my distant memory where EPM played more or less like he has this game (basic actively lurker scum template) and he was scum GF or something silly like that. Plus there were some pretty good suspicions thrown about earlier by another player re: EPM that struck me correctly. I don't know how I feel now that he's going to be replaced. (

Happy to lynch.

)

18. RadiantCowbells: leaning town. He's been pretty quiet with the occasional not particularly helpful tidbit, so I guess possible lurker scum, but he doesn't really strike me that way.

20. tman2nd: solid town

21. Green Crayons: me

That answers two of the points I could glean through all of your bluster.

You're basically taking a "I'm obviously and incredibly right, and my rightness stems from the fact that I'm obviously town, and therefore my townness and rightness is unquestionable and I'll barrage anyone who says otherwise was insults and sarcasm" tactic, and it looks like scum bluster.

I noted it in Post 1822, and it has continued since that time. Up to and including your interactions with Serra and about how everyone should be voting Serra lest they be True Newbies.

Good luck. <3

After you've assessed that my suspicions are not up to par, I see that you've safely retreated from slandering my play as being scummy. Good to know you kick up a whole bunch of dust as soon as someone votes you!

Keeping my vote.

Good luck. <3

After you've assessed that my suspicions are not up to par, I see that

you've safely retreated from slandering my play as being scummy

. Good to know you kick up a whole bunch of dust as soon as someone votes you!

Keeping my vote.

Are you making this up as you go along.

That didn't happen.

You are literally too much, don't worry you'll have your turn.

You're making my vote more comfortable the longer we go on. I lynch liars, too:

The closer we get to the end the less I can chalk your tunneling up to being terrible at mafia.

So I'm literally reading your iso to try to prove to myself that you're not retarded

and failing. Explain your vote on me with like a big boy.

Wooow it took forever to drag you onto those two scum lynches.

Guys open Desperado's iso, ctrl+f green, start hitting enter and watch.

Oh is this the part you were supposedly responding to:

Good luck. <3

After you've assessed that my suspicions are not up to par,

I see that you've safely retreated

from slandering my play as being scummy. Good to know you kick up a whole bunch of dust as soon as someone votes you!

Keeping my vote.

Are you making this up as you go along.

That didn't happen.

You are literally too much, don't worry you'll have your turn.

Then I point out:

That's pretty dumb/not where I can imagine putting my vote in town-gc's shoes but as long as you're up front about it.

Good luck. <3

Also, lol @ Ythan's additional discrediting of anything I say when his statement of "That didn't happen" was about as opaque as a glass of milk, and I responded accordingly.

In sum, just so you can't bluster more about Just How Wacky That Green Crayons Is Being!: my first response showed you slandering my play as scummy, my second response showed you retreating from that hardline stance.

And, as a final cap: yes, yes that did happen.

I'm not really following the Ythan-GC thing

It's quite simple:

1. I vote Ythan.
2. Ythan calls me scummy for <reasons>, and says I don't have a basis for voting him.
3. I clarify my reasons for voting him.
4. Ythan says those reasons are weak.
5. I make a submissive post or two where I agree that maybe my scumhunting skills are pretty weak.
6. Ythan, sensing victory, then retreats from his stance that I'm scummy, satisfied with my own posts that presumably undercut the veracity of my own suspicions of Ythan.

In-between all of this, you get insults and words words words from Ythan. And lots of questions about things already answered. The goal of which is to muddy the water, I presume, as Ythan is scum in my book.

-----

GC is trying to kill it, Mollie might be trying to kill it.

And this is a lie, because:

I also want to hear more out of Green Crayons and Elyse.

I find that I don't really have much to say at the moment. I want mala to respond to my post, and in the meanwhile I'm happy with my PeregrineV vote.


I'm happy to do a recap about my feelings about players. For ease of future reference, I'm even going to include a bold notation as to those who I would be comfortable lynching today.

2. PeregrineV: willing to lynch today for reasons stated in Post 1659. (

Happy to lynch.

)

4. DeathNote: I thought was scum for about the first half of D1, and now I find him neutral. Hasn't done anything exceptional since that point in time, which I think might be attributable to the blowup between him and UT right about when his posting seemed to drop off. That strikes me as discouraged town, rather than scared scum licking his wounds.

5. pisskop: no real read. I just wrote a snippet about some minor feelings I had towards pisskop, only to do a quick double check and realize that they were not about pisskop at all, but another player. This leads me to conclude that I have absolutely no feelings about pisskop.

6. Yates Matias*: no read

7. pirate mollie: town

8. serrapaladin OhGodMyLife*: I realized I didn't have a read on him and then realized I couldn't actually put even a personality with the name. 9 posts all game. Would lynch this lurker today. (

Happy to lynch.

)

9. Untrod Tripod XLAV: town

10. Malakittens: leaning scum. (

Happy to lynch.

)

11. Elyse: still town in my book.

12. Marquis: still town in my book. I've read the posts about people who think she's scummy, and they didn't strike me as solid enough suspicions to take the time and synthesize and think hard and deep thoughts about.

13. Nikanor: no read.

14. Ythan *: I feel like he's pulling a "I'm hot shit" gambit and the only one who is noticing that it isn't working (and shouldn't be, because Ythan hasn't exactly delivered this game) is tman. Would be happy to vote again. (

Happy to lynch.

)

15. Porochaz: still think he's town

17. evilpacman18 *: I would have been happy to lynch today -- I recall in my distant memory where EPM played more or less like he has this game (basic actively lurker scum template) and he was scum GF or something silly like that. Plus there were some pretty good suspicions thrown about earlier by another player re: EPM that struck me correctly. I don't know how I feel now that he's going to be replaced. (

Happy to lynch.

)

18. RadiantCowbells: leaning town. He's been pretty quiet with the occasional not particularly helpful tidbit, so I guess possible lurker scum, but he doesn't really strike me that way.

20. tman2nd: solid town

21. Green Crayons: me

It's quite simple

Is that why you aren't on the NS wagon? Or do you think NS is town?

Because one more vote will lynch NS.
Because I'm waiting to see if NS actually posts anything.
Because the only thing I recall being chalked up to NS = scummy is someone saying that Mollie said to vote him.


I said I was willing to vote EPM for being an active lurker. NS, being EPM's replacement, has not done much to change that perception of the slot. That said, I can have multiple suspicions and right now I prefer pursuing my Ythan suspicions with a vote.

[Green Crayons]

- Ythan: "He has beef with me but can't back it up."
- Me: quotes a bunch of posts where I have already explained why I find Ythan's play scummy to show that, in fact, I have backed it up and there's no need for me to restate my already stated suspicions
- Ythan: refuses to address those points and instead makes the issue about something else -- now, he's complaining that those reasons aren't stated with the right words



I'm not going to play into your attempt to make the focus of my voiced suspicions be anything but those voiced suspicions. Even in your flopping about, you're revealing your scumminess: you've already admitted that you understand my suspicions against you (Post 2346), but you fail to understand my suspicions against you when you want to discredit me (Post 2410, Post 2429).

[Green Crayons]

- Ythan: "He has beef with me but can't back it up."
- Me: quotes a bunch of posts where I have already explained why I find Ythan's play scummy to show that, in fact, I have backed it up and there's no need for me to restate my already stated suspicions
- Ythan: refuses to address those points and instead makes the issue about something else -- now, he's complaining that those reasons aren't stated with the right words



I'm not going to play into your attempt to make the focus of my voiced suspicions be anything but those voiced suspicions. Even in your flopping about, you're revealing your scumminess: you've already admitted that you understand my suspicions against you (Post 2346), but you fail to understand my suspicions against you when you want to discredit me (Post 2410, Post 2429).

So you can't do it? K.

There's no need for me to use different words to restate my already voiced suspicions of you that you have already acknowledged as understanding.

Or, rather, there is no

town

reason for doing so. Scum would, of course, make an issue out of the fact that I'm not going to continually rephrase my suspicions.

[Green Crayons]

I think pisskop is likely scum but not because of UT's flip.

why?

pisskop tried to dismantle the mala wagon

I look forward to Nacho's post in response to this.

[Green Crayons]

We are lynching Kagami today. I don't mind letting the discussions go on a bit but a claim was reached and there is no reason to not lynch her. I do appreciate the feedback she is giving though and hopefully the info she is providing will help us catch some scum.

I like the VC analysis and normally I don't care at all about them.

Can you please explain the bolded? I don't follow what you're saying.

[Green Crayons]

We are lynching Kagami today. I don't mind letting the discussions go on a bit but a claim was reached and there is no reason to not lynch her. I do appreciate the feedback she is giving though and hopefully the info she is providing will help us catch some scum.

I like the VC analysis and normally I don't care at all about them.

Can you please explain the bolded? I don't follow what you're saying.

Oh I was mixing up the terms VC and VT and therefore confused myself.

[Green Crayons]

Ok?

But that doesn't mean we should increase the odds of him getting killed. You were deemed a scum slot. The only reason you claim is so that we make sure we are not lynching a PR and once VT comes out, we lynch that. Plain and simple.

Sure, I think you had some very pro-town posts but that doesn't mean you slot is guaranteed not being scum unlike our Mason.

I mean, the fact that the slot received another replacement complicates the analysis. If Kagami hadn't replaced in, I would agree with you. But now, I see the decision as being: is the replacement's town qualities (solid contributions which you admit you like as town) outweigh the prior players' scumminess, or is it outweighed by that prior scumminess?


Under that analysis, and in this situation, I don't think so. EPM actively lurked pretty hardcore, and NS just straight up lurked -- which have been attributed as being scumplay for both players. Relatively speaking (that is, getting past the fact that you have to read a bunch), it's easy to come into a game and throw down some observations that sound pretty solid. So the previous scumminess outweighs the current indications of town play. Although, admittedly, the current town play makes it a hard vote, but that can be attributable to it just being a whole new personality filling the slot.


That said, still happy with my vote.

[Green Crayons]

I was one of those people attributing EPM's play style in this game as being scumplay.

Way to read the thread Ythan.

[Green Crayons]

That does not change the content of the post you just made you moron.

Heh. So now that you were called out for having a shitty criticism, you're changing your criticism. Good tactic for a scum!

Oh, but wait. Your criticism that I didn't take a stand doesn't have any more merit when applied to my entire post than when it applies to that mere ten-word snippet you isolated from everything else.

You want a stand to be , how about:

But now, I see the decision as being: is the replacement's town qualities (solid contributions which you admit you like as town) outweigh the prior players' scumminess, or is it outweighed by that prior scumminess?

How about:

Under that analysis, and in this situation, I don't think so.

How about:

That said, still happy with my vote.

Man, you're really bad at being scum. Wait... I feel as if I have expressed that opinion before. Why, yes! Yes, I have!

A suitable alternative is not one that is not as good. GC u r dumb.

Willfully obtuse Ythan is willfully obtuse.

-

You

think Formerfish is "obvious scum." (Post 1041.)
-

You

wanted obvious scum (Fish) lynched, or a "suitable alternative." (Post 1041.)
-

I

am saying sthar is scum, and have not subscribed to your Formfish is "obvious scum." At most, Formerfish's play on balance has been scummy, but far from "obvious scum." (Post 709.)
-

I

am saying that because I think sthar is a pretty good scum candidate, and because

you

yourself have acknowledged that sthar gave you the "heebie jeebies," (Post 1032)

I

think that sthar fits under

your

request for a "suitable alternative."

-----

Literally GC walled to make the point that another character "gave me the heebie jeebies" and that I should lynch them instead of scum. And has done shit else lately.

Is it possible for you to be more bad at being scum?

[Green Crayons]

Well, folks. I have figured it out.

Either:

A) Ythan is so incredibly mentally deficient that he cannot understand posts that are clear enough for everyone else to understand, and which he himself understands up until the point that he forgets how to comprehend basic sentence structure, and therefore is so embarrassed by his fantastically woeful mental faculties that he resorts to incessant personal attacks,

OR

B) Ythan is scum who is being continuously called out on his bullshit and his repeated tactic is to either (1) shift his attacks whenever he's challenged, (2) attack his attacker with personal insults, or (3) hurl personal insults. (Get it, points two and three are the same thing because it's what he resorts to most.)


Because I believe Ythan has some modicum of intelligence, I'm going to rule out possibility A for the time being. As such, I find no reason to not keep voting for scumstain Ythan until he hangs by the neck until dead.

[Green Crayons]

Ythan looks better and GC looks worse after Kagami's flip.

But Ythan is more scummy than the EPM/NS/Kagami slot was. No regrets.

VOTE: Ythan

-----

If I'm going to assume that Ythan is just an infuriatingly bad player, and not scum, (which is a mistake I made with Zekrom, but whatever), then my first inclination is to throw a vote on Nacho.

(1) Didn't like his non-response to an inquiry re: pisskop's supposed attempted derail of a scum lynch (yes, "supposed" because I haven't reread the thread so I don't even know if Elyse's accusation is valid or not!).
(2) Didn't like the juxtaposition of unwilling to read through previous days (in re: pisskop's derail), but willing to be the arbitrator in Ythan v. GC which would require reading previous days to some extent, as our little spat predates his replacement.
(3) Kagami's commentary re: scum kills looks like seriously trying to communicate with another partner. Although that could reasonably be a partner who was not another replacement, it feels more likely that it was to a fellow replacement.
(4) Super easy to choose bussing Kagami as a replacement.

-----

Strong town:
- tman2nd
- Bulbazak
- Marquis

Probably town:
- Yates
- DeathNote

Scum possibilities:
- Ythan
- Nacho
- Elyse (Yes, I know I've been reading Elyse town all game but there's just

something

that feels off. I don't know how else to explain it, and can't quite put my finger on it.)

[Green Crayons]

In re: Elyse, I just have this nagging feeling like I've been being played all game.

[Green Crayons]

But, as a matter of lynch preference atm: Ythan > Nacho > Elyse.

[Green Crayons]

Believe it or not, I can vote one person and still evaluate other players. Doing two things at once: something I did just yesterday!

-----

If I'm going to assume that Ythan is just an infuriatingly bad player, and not scum, (which is a mistake I made with Zekrom, but whatever), then my first inclination is to throw a vote on Nacho.

(1) Didn't like his non-response to an inquiry re: pisskop's supposed attempted derail of a scum lynch (yes, "supposed" because I haven't reread the thread so I don't even know if Elyse's accusation is valid or not!).
(2) Didn't like the juxtaposition of unwilling to read through previous days (in re: pisskop's derail), but willing to be the arbitrator in Ythan v. GC which would require reading previous days to some extent, as our little spat predates his replacement.

(3) Kagami's commentary re: scum kills looks like seriously trying to communicate with another partner. Although that could reasonably be a partner who was not another replacement, it feels more likely that it was to a fellow replacement.

(4) Super easy to choose bussing Kagami as a replacement.

Following up on the bolded, these posts in particular:

The slot isn't scum, mollie, ns has been lurking in all of his games from the looks of it.

I'm caught up with the major events and have been looking at VCs and the posts surrounding them. I should be done with a full read during the day tomorrow.

My initial appraisal is that the day 1 formerfish counterwagon to zekrom's wagon deserves scrutiny, and I'm trying to work out last two night kills.

Peregrin's kill especially makes little sense, unless the scumteam are not mafia at all, but are in fact forest fires taking the form of mafia (which would be decidedly non-normal).

It seems pretty unlikely to me that the scum made use of daychat when they had it, given the terrible play from zekrom and the terrible claims (also, prob no mod-given fake claims), so I'm going to do some meta-diving when I've finished reading.

This reads as scum saying "holy shit scum team has been stupid."

I think Deathnote, Mollie, and Ythan are town for various reasons. Two of these are play-based reads, and one who I'm pretty sure is the mason (sorry if this outs you, but it's kind of obvious).

Deathnote town makes me think marquis scum, on the grounds that the counterwagon to sthar was entirely town-led, but I really want nacho's input. The pisskop attempt to counterwagon marquis as the mala wagon built up is pinging pretty hard; nacho-slot being scum would suggest marquis town, probably.

And here Kagami is yelling to her partner who to kill. I don't have a feeling one way or another if she would have thrown her partner into the mix.


Those posts combined look like she's trying to tell a fellow replacement (rather than an existing player) that, basically, the scum team has been stupid with its night kill choices, and that her partner should take a stab at one of her offered targets.

Once again, I recognize that a replacing scum might do these things when their partner is an already-existing player. But it just feels more like Kagami's fellow scum was also a replacement. ~*~ Gut Talk. ~&~

[Green Crayons]

Taking a step back, I do realize that my vote on Ythan now appears more reactionary than the result of scum hunting. (tman's effortpost putting some things into perspective.) But I stand by my initial reactions to his play -- which I'm not keen on attributing to playstyle because of the slew derogatory adjectives I would attach to that style -- and I'm happy to continue voting Ythan until I'm more comfortable with my vote going elsewhere.

-----

I had a fairly strong townread on RC, and probably based on that I don't want to lynch Bulba

I agree with this. I have not changed my opinion since:

18. RadiantCowbells: leaning town. He's been pretty quiet with the occasional not particularly helpful tidbit, so I guess possible lurker scum, but he doesn't really strike me that way.

I've had no real need to change my opinion, mainly because RC (and now his replacement) have been pretty much a nonentity. I mean, yes, scum do this too (e.g., EPM/NS), but RC always struck me as distant town what with apparently having a bad reputation or something.

[Green Crayons]

And here Kagami is yelling to her partner who to kill. I don't have a feeling one way or another if she would have thrown her partner into the mix.

Probably not: currently, it looks like she tossed two obvious town and the mason into the mix.

I wrote a response to this and then realized that your post might meant something else than my initial take away. To what part of my post are you referring to when you say "probably not?"

[Green Crayons]

Especially 1814.

VOTE: Nacho

[Green Crayons]

I should have checked before I voted. I believe that makes me number 3 out of 5.

[Green Crayons]

I take it back. I think I'm #4.

[Green Crayons]

Yup: Elyse, tman, Marq, GC.

[Green Crayons]

Can you talk to me about Bulba for a sec? Am I conf biasing here or is his attack on me... uh... inconsistent with how he's claiming to read people?

Since you mention it, I would like Bulb to explain failing to address this:

6. Re: lack of activity from your slot - You know how many scum wagons your slot has been on? It shouldn't take too long to count to zero.

Conversely, I killed the Mafia RB and the Mafia Encryptor.

So for a non-contributing slot to wonder why I - as someone that has contributed reads, advanced the game, killed scum, and actually scum hunted contrary to your bs accusation - would have the gall to call your slot "broken" is laughable.

Even though he caught similar things on reread (presumably of the vote counts) such as:

Marquis:

Come on. There's no way a player like Marquis actively pursues and busses 3 of his buddies. Marquis is about as obv. town as you can get.

[Green Crayons]

Wowowow. Ythan turned DeathNote's question right around and actually managed to not answer it -- making it all about something other than his response!

Hey, that seems incredibly familiar. It's like I've seen that before.

[Green Crayons]

You're pretty frustratingly incompetent at interacting with people like a human being yourself, but somehow I think we'll manage!

[Green Crayons]

Is anyone familiar with RC's other game play that earned him his reputation, and what that play is like?

Curious how closely it tracks to his play this game.

[Green Crayons]

Is anyone familiar with RC's other game play that earned him his reputation, and what that play is like?

Curious how closely it tracks to his play this game.

So I guess nobody?

[Green Crayons]

I have no reason to disbelieve Yates' claim, though I guess it could possibly be a gambit.

[Green Crayons]

I'm leaning toward a Bulb or Ythan vote. I need to actually read the back and forth from the beginning of today.

[Green Crayons]

Top: Elyse and tman.
Next: Marquis (would be in Top, but requested Top 2), Yates, and DeathNote.
Bottom: Bulba and Ythan.

-----

Throwing Bulba down there because my previous rationale for slotting RC into the town role (here and here, if anyone cares) doesn't really hold up to reflection. That is, as I recognized in Post 2592, I found RC's lurkerness to be more attributable to his comments about being shunned/disliked (or something to that effect) either in early game or back in the sign up thread -- even while recognizing that such lurkerness was indicative of EPM/NS's scumminess.

But, upon doing a quick ISO of the game DeathNote linked to here, in which RC was town, I think there's a big difference between RC's town play and RC's play in this game.

So, on that basis I'm willing to shift my opinion about RC, and I'm willing to attribute his hands off approach in this game to scumminess rather than hurt player feelings.

With respect to Bulba, suspecting another replacement player would align with my theory (from Post 2566) that Kagami was attempting to talk to another replacement scum.

I read Bulba's posts and there are some things I don't like about them, some things I think aren't particular alignment indicative, and then a whole bunch of walls which I only skimmed because I found them to not be enlightening.

[Green Crayons]

Let's see... There are likely 2 scum left in the game.

Tman made a suspicious push. Of course I voted him!

I don't see how having multiple scum reads is scummy. However, you trying to use that as a reason to discredit my read on you is scummy as crap.

Elyse is likely town from Yate's claim, as I think he'd want to confirm a real townie to sell it. I also think Elyse's reaction was genuine. Not sure what to think about Ythan's reaction.

Yates has claimed scum in thread and needs to die. If you guys don't lynch him, then town deserves to lose this game.

Wait. Is the bolded in reference to your really bad Post 2664, which was so bad that you walked it back in Post 2668 by disavowing your tman suspicions

completely

as a "misunderstanding" of tman's post?

Also, I didn't bring it up before in my previous post, but why were you willing to throw out a vote in such a late game day (Post 2664) based on your reading of a post that you were actually were "afraid" might be a misunderstanding (Post 2668)? Basically, I'm left asking myself if I should attribute such actions to sloppy play, scumminess, or some other magical third option?

[Green Crayons]

beep boop VOTE: Bulba

Might as well pull the trigger. I'm not exactly comfortable with the Yates claim, but I feel solid about Yates > Bulba.

[Green Crayons]

Alright, so I guess we're lynching Elyse.

[Green Crayons]

I tried to make it seem like there wasn't another mason but I guess I failed.

You did, at least for me. That's why I was fine with hammering. And that's why I'm now suspicious of you all over again.

Is it possible for the last two scum to be Elyse/Yates? Is that too absurd?

And now this is what I'm wavering about.

Yeah. That would be a pretty ballsy gambit.

Suicidal

if Elyse had been countered but ballsy. And, bt-dubs,

Elyse had no pressure or need to claim

.

And this is what I'm ruminating about.

I am actually thinking about both of these things. It's possible they are both linked.

I'm starting to think there might only be one scum left.

I can expand on this if needed but based on flips I think the last scum is PR hunting and not worried about a mason or doc. I am a little concerned/paranoid that we might have an obv Town read on scum [Marquis/DN] but think the PR hunting makes the most sense. Again, I can expand on this if needed.

Point being, I'm not confident this is mylo BUT my theory is just a theory. My claim is out there. So if you guys want to talk mass claim, that's up to you.

4 scum v. 3 masons + other town PRs? 5 scum sounds right to me just based off of balance.

[Green Crayons]

To me it's down to Ythan/GC today. Ythan has been on my radar and I hate all of GC's posts today. The first one seemed to try to rush the game to an end while the second seemed fake.

I'm certainly not going to be disappointed if it's a me v. Ythan vote, and that's actually the correct play. It will not only confirm that I have been right about Ythan all game, but I'm comfortable enough with my play over Ythan's that the end result will be correct.


That said, I'm not sure how to respond to your inclination to think my second post today was "fake," especially since it has been the most rushed post I've done all game -- I typed it up in the few minutes I had before chauffeuring my company to the airport. It's pretty much where I stand right now.

In re: first post, that was my initial reaction to the possibility of three masons. I found it hard to believe then, especially with your "I'm the only other mason" tone, and I still don't know how I feel about it. Why did you feel the need to make it appear like you were the only other mason?

[Green Crayons]

Alright, so reviewing tman's posts w/r/t Elyse, I now more comfortable with taking the position that they were masons together than I was when today's game day began.

-----

We have tman disliking Elyse suspicions (early game days):

@tman2nd what are your thoughts on mollie ?

I don't really like how she's tunneling on Elyse. I've also found some of her posts a bit confusing.
<snip>

On mollie

Ugh, I'm having a really hard time reading her. Something about her play style seems odd and hard to understand. She starts off voting Elyse for reasonable reasons, but she gets way to focused on her.
<snip>

I was more active and confrontational Day 1.

You were active and made posts that resonated with me.

But since I have been wrong before, and know this, I require constant Elyse-town reassurance in the form of you town-posting some more.

Can you do that please?

Can you trying showing us why you are town too?

Do you have any scum reads?

It is true that he hasn't been very active at all, so it is odd for him to request that someone else post more.
<snip>

-----

We have tman outright saying that Elyse is town (later game days):

GC's unsurety over is his previous Elyse townread strikes me as town. I still townread Elyse pretty strongly, though.

Oh! I wonder if that was a nk or something else.

So, I currently am town reading Elyse, Marquis, and Green Crayons pretty heavily. That leaves, Ythan, Deathnote, Bulzabeck, and Yates. Out of those, Bulbazeck seems like the best option. As, others have pointed out, there have been some inconsistencies with the way he has read people, so that's who I want to lynch today.

VOTE: Bulbazeck

Top 2: Elyse, and now Yates.
<snip>

-----

We have tman having minimal interactions with Elyse, but I think the content of those interactions could align with masons talking to one another:

sthar is posting minimal content, pacifying mollie after engaging in an argument with her, and dropping forced, fake towntells like "Desp asked me to replace into this game and I raged when I got a town PM. You can check with him postgame." and "I have a townread on mollie. So happy to finally be on the same team." He keeps mentioning that he's town and he's not a new player so this is throwing up several red flags.

I know that this playerlist is useless and all of these people are worthy of a lynch by sheer stupidity/lack of content/poor play:
pisskop
Zekrom
Formerfish
Marquis
RadiantCowbells
OhGodMyLife
evilpacman
Malakittens

but that's way too many to start settling for a lynch on a shitty/nonexistant player. We need to lynch scum and I'm most confident that sthar is scum. Zekrom can kill out of {pisskop, Marquis, RC} to eliminate one. If one doesn't die then we lynch Zekrom anyway. I'm just afraid we won't get another opportunity to lynch sthar because he's very slippery and everyone in this game gets distracted easily.

Eh, I just think he isn't the lynch for today.

Looking at that, I'd say we can't really base a read on Bulba based on RC's actions.

That sounds about right. What is your read of my slot based on my actions?

Well, I don't like what you scumread Yates for. At least, in your first post. At the same time, I get a town vibe from you. My read on you is rather up in the air at the moment.

I guess I should look at DN now.

Also, some of the ways Yates has defended himself has been poor, but I still think he is town.

Elyse, what are your reads?

-----

And then there's this random tidbit which I don't think necessarily goes one way or the other:

@ Moderator: You have Elyse voting twice.

~Thanks

<snip>

[Green Crayons]

Thoughts:

- So, upon my tman review, I'm going to trust my prior Elyse feelings since they have been reinforced. I still think Marquis is town.

- I haven't really liked the tone of DN's posts this game day. Something just feels wrong. I'm still letting that feeling simmer.

- I don't know what to make of Yates. I trust him less since Bulb flipped town, but I know that, rationally, Bulb's townness doesn't automatically make Yates scum. But it does make Bulb's much-to-do about Yates, and about Yates' claim, more legitimate.

- Ythan has basically become a nonentity in this game ever since his "contempt" spiel -- not that he was much before that.


At the moment, if I had to name two scum, I would most likely go with Ythan and DN. But Yates is there, just on the sidelines. If I had to narrow it down to one, I really, really want to say Ythan, but I realize that might be biased for apparent reasons -- so I might actually go with DN. I dunno. I want to read some more interactions before committing myself to these Ythan/DN/Yates positions.

[Green Crayons]

Wtf are you talking about GC with my tone? Can you explain how my "tone" has changed from yesterday to today?

1. 2798 and 2799 just feel weird. Which I recognize as strange, in that those posts reflect my thoughts at that point in time. But it's just something about your delivery that strikes me as weird.

2. I don't really know if I can point to a difference between Day 8 Nacho, and Day 9 Nacho. Mainly because I haven't done a study of Day 8 Nacho. At any rate, I never made a distinction between those two days. That's all you -- so, nice try at trying to force a dichotomy between those two days, I guess? It's just that there's something about your posts today that have struck me funny, and not in the good way. Not some great shift in your play that separates today from your play in previous game days.

3. In re: delving further into DN play, you cannot deny that you

have

shifted your play throughout this game. I recall you being quite active Day 1 (hey look I wrote a post about why I thought everyone should have lynched you on D1), then you sort of slunk into the background for after your back-and-forth with UT (hey look I talked about that too), and now you're very much active again. So... there's that, I guess.


I'm not opposed to no lynching today. But I'm not keen on doing it immediately.

[Green Crayons]

@GC- there is nothing for me to respond or defend against when you just get a "weird feeling".

...That's fine? I wasn't looking for a response or defense from you at this point. I was just typing out my feelings about things.

[Green Crayons]

Ehh... if Mafia have an added kill ability, I would be willing to wager only 1 scum left then. 4 scum with decent powers against a large town with meh powers. (Although 3 masons is pretty good)

Yeah. This is

exactly

what I'm thinking. This is also why I'm not sold on the no lynch strategy.

I feel like we waste any advantage we have by no lynching.

Let's say we no lynch today and tomorrow I'm dead. What did we learn? Or what if Elyse is dead? Same question? The lynch pool will *still* be Ythan/GC, imho. I just feel like this is our poop or get off the pot moment.

Can you lay out your thinking on the bolded more? I want to make sure I understand your apprehension (because currently I don't).

w/r/t learning from what people die, I have already gone through the process of deciding what I would think should any given player dies, but I figure it's actually not beneficial for the town, and actually beneficial for scum, for us to divulge that.

-----

@DeathNote:

That's fair. But this is me giving an electronic shrug, because I don't have anything else to say at this point.

[Green Crayons]

I still don't trust your slot 100% and I can't figure out why tman was killed.

You probably answered your own question. I don't foresee a no lynch being particularly helpful, unless if scum decide to off one of the more suspicious players.

-----

mulled it over and i actually agree with the no lynch. odd numbers are better for town and it's actually better that my slot's not here because my reads probably aren't going to be as good as people who've been here the whole time anyway.

So why did you originally want to no lynch?

[Green Crayons]

Welcome antihero!

There is too much wifom involved in lynching today.

I agree, there could possibly be one scum left but I don't want to bank the game on that "possibility." The fact that you suggest it when Yates did too is very interesting to me.

The WIFOM you're referring to relates only to the game setup (1 v. 2 scum left), or something else?

[Green Crayons]

If 2 scum left and we lynch wrong, gg. The wifom of if we are actually in mylo or not.

If 2 scum are left and we lynch wrong tomorrow, gg.

Like, I understand the implicit hope of what another night will bring us, but I don't think it's actually going to be as useful as you do.

[Green Crayons]

Oh wow I sure am glad we allowed that to happen.

Tell me everything you learned from this, No Lynch voters.

[Green Crayons]

That was abundantly obvious before last night.

[Green Crayons]

Elyse: do my posts remind you of how bad of a decision No Lynch was? It was abundantly clear Marq was getting killed last night. If Marq wasn't killed, a no kill was probably the next option.

Marq was walking back from her DN town read, but only because of some sort of tunneling.
Marq trusted Yates/Anti much less.

I'm comfortable with that priority.

Ythan > Anti > DN.

[Green Crayons]

Elyse: do my posts remind you of how bad of a decision No Lynch was? It was abundantly clear Marq was getting killed last night. If Marq wasn't killed, a no kill was probably the next option.

Marq was walking back from her DN town read, but only because of some sort of tunneling.

7
Marq trusted Yates/Anti much less.

I'm comfortable with that priority.

Ythan > Anti > DN.

Just skimmed over Marq's posts, and I see I got this backwards. Marq was reading DN as town

because of

his tunnel on her, and also because she thought he was a mason. Marq wasn't walking back from her town assessment because of DN's tunnel.

At most, I think that puts Anti and DN on the same level of suspicion.


I also looked over my posts once again, and am still happy with a Ythan vote today.

[Green Crayons]

Are you being purposefully obtuse because you don't want to seem like overeager scum?

Ythan thinks I'm scum. I think Ythan is scum. This is not new news. This is old news.

[Green Crayons]

I just read my post and realized that it could be read as a bit harsh.

But instead of rewording what I said, I'm going to stick by it. You're not thick, so I don't see how you could be confused about Ythan's post. So your apprehension about where Ythan stands looks feigned.

[Green Crayons]

I would love for every player to post before we start voting from sheer boredom.

I think DN and Anti should go ahead and set out their order of who to vote and why.

Elyse can then state her peace, since everyone agrees that she's the most town.


That makes the most sense to me as the order of things.

[Green Crayons]

@DeathNote:

This isn't a matter of play style, and I don't see how my criticism about your post makes it a matter of play style, so that's a strange direction to want take this.

When Ythan just pops in, says he is doesn't care about the game, then says "Idk. GC." without adding anything else... that kind of isn't good enough for me.

So I ask him a blatant question that should be leading to a response about Why you are scum.

The above explanation of motives and play makes sense.

However, it does not jive with what you actually asked:

Idk. GC.

Meaning GC is scum?

Your question begs a yes/no response. That's not "leading to a response about why <I> am scum." That's leading to a response we all know before it's stated: "Yes." Or, maybe even, "Yes, GC is scum." Like, even ignoring the GC/Ythan history of this game, Ythan's meaning is self evident. And so I don't see how that's getting beyond his minimal input for the day.


BUT WHATEVER. It looks like I jumped the gun in reacting to this because now we can't see how your uninfluenced interaction with Ythan would have played out. I blame it on the fact that you're all bored with the game and so the not-GC-posting rate has gone way down.


-----

@Anti:

Do you agree with your predecessor's assessment that there is only 1 scum left? Why or why not.

[Green Crayons]

Me vocalizing a reaction (of "hey this play is suspicious to me") is not getting upset. It's saying "hey this play is suspicious to me." Which is what I usually do in mafia games, and what I presume most other folks do as well.


If you want upset, see today's first posts in re: the lack of a productive result from the No Lynch fiasco.


But, at any rate:

BUT WHATEVER. It looks like I jumped the gun in reacting to this because now we can't see how your uninfluenced interaction with Ythan would have played out. I blame it on the fact that you're all bored with the game and so the not-GC-posting rate has gone way down.

[Green Crayons]

I did a skim of Yates's and DN's posts and, looking at how they interacted with each other, I don't think that they are scum partners. Therefore, assuming 2 scum left, it's either Ythan & DN, or Ythan & Yates/Anti (obviously from my perspective, which slots Elyse and myself as town). If only 1 scum left, and it isn't Ythan, then this won't be the end of things.

VOTE: Ythan

[Green Crayons]

I did a skim of Yates's and DN's posts and, looking at how they interacted with each other, I don't think that they are scum partners.

Beep boop this was wrong.

[Green Crayons]

I had DN pinned as town from the fact that (1) I did my usual second guessing of my early reads (re: DN = scum), (2) UT didn't seem to think there was much to follow through on from their back-and-forth, and (3) Yates was more scummy than DN.


Oh well. Nice work, scum team.