Mini 1582: Formerfish's First Foray (Game Over)

[Drew-Sta]

A drunken hello from Australia.

[Drew-Sta]

VOTE: Vote: DrewSta

Hi, no RVS vote is scum.

Since when?

OMGUS VOTE: Oka

Is that mafia talk too?

[Drew-Sta]

Keep in mind that I don't vote unless I feel strongly about something.

I don't like to vote unless I'm actually serious about lynching the person that I'm voting for, but, I guess it's scummy for me not to so or something (which I disagree with) so to oblige:

VOTE: Kitty

Less random than the rest of the votes. Random bandwagon followers strike me as more likely to be scum than most, particularly if they don't provide any actual reasoning. Like, it's fine to vote for me, but if you're going to vote against me and not provide any reasons, how do you expect me to respond? I can't. That's unfair and that's how mislynches come about, and that's how scum wins. Thus, we can conclude that those who vote with no reason, whether bandwagoning or not, are scummy.

So you disagree with the vote on Kitty because its a random bandwagon but you jump on anyway? WTF?

UNVOTE: OkaPoka
VOTE: ILoveFairies

[Drew-Sta]

I think ILF meant KittyMo jumping on her wagon with a wordless vote.

Let's see. Already five votes on a single person. Who is the sneaky scumbag slipping onto the ILF wagon? In an attempt to pull away from a KittyMo lynch?

Hey elk, would you say it's OMGUS if you vote for someone voting you, 100% all the time, regardless of context?

Hi Gribblypuff, you called? I need another Fairies post before I get less tight-lipped.

I'll say that if Fairies is town then Drew looks a lot more opportunistic here to me than elk (whose reasoning is less strawman and more trying to read into her motivations.)

My theory: you don't just make the decision to jump on an RVS lynch wagon that you state you disagree with and have stated as such - that is opportunistic.

I do realise this makes me stand out like a sore thumb, but it was that blatantly obvious that it deserved a reaction.

If ILF comes on and claims it just as an RVS, then fine but it does seem suspicious and you can't say it doesn't.

Kitty - why is Fairies not opportunistic given what she has done?

Grib - exactly how is an RVS wagon a good thing to be generating?

[Drew-Sta]

How was I opportunistic? I voted on who I thought was scummy. If you read all of my other games, I don't care what the other votes are (save for L-2, I don't want early hammers), I vote what I think is right. It's why I'm very hesitant to vote at all times, I don't like being wrong, and when I think I'm right, it takes good reasoning to change my mind.

Don't get the misconception that my vote as RVS. My vote was a real vote.

Hmm...

Ok, perhaps thats the case. But what reasons do you think they're mafia? (I'm on my phone so if you've already stated them please just point out the pist and I'll look there). I just think there was little reason at all to validly vote for Kitty, post wise.

Kitty may well be mafia and I may well have just stopped a lynch, which I'm totally aware of, but an time someone jumps on a lynch quickly like that (making it L-2) for spurious reasons I get very nervous.

Drew, it's good for generating counter-wagons to ease us out of RVS and really get the ball rolling. I think it's odd that ILF's wagon picked up speed so quickly. And when KittyMo had four votes on her.

ILF gave her reasoning for voting KittyMo. KittyMo hasn't given her reason for voting ILF, which is why ILF voted for her.

(Also she clearly stated it wasn't an RVS? Are you reading her posts?) For Some Reason you're operating under the impression that she was thinking, "I disagree with the KittyMo wagon. VOTE KITTY!"

Vote: Drew-Sta

Second Vote: Drew-Sta

Tell me about yourself.

Re the bolded. I looked at her reasons (at least the ones in her post that I could see - I may have missed some) - I just don't see the evidence. Like I said, I could have got this horribly wrong, but anyone jumping on an RVS wagon, for any reason (reason can be fabricated remember) is to me a opportunistic vote, especiallly with so little evidence present in a game only two pages old.

Also, you seem very keen to defend her. Thats not necessarily a tell but it is curious, especially since you asserted the change of wagon must be mafia-supported.

About myself? Just getting stuck into a few Fosters before Friday night footy in Aus. Not much more to me than that. Yourself?

[Drew-Sta]

Keep in mind that I don't vote unless I feel strongly about something.

I don't like to vote unless I'm actually serious about lynching the person that I'm voting for, but, I guess it's scummy for me not to so or something (which I disagree with) so to oblige:

VOTE: Kitty

Less random than the rest of the votes. Random bandwagon followers strike me as more likely to be scum than most, particularly if they don't provide any actual reasoning. Like, it's fine to vote for me, but if you're going to vote against me and not provide any reasons, how do you expect me to respond? I can't. That's unfair and that's how mislynches come about, and that's how scum wins. Thus, we can conclude that those who vote with no reason, whether bandwagoning or not, are scummy.

I posted my reasoning with my vote. I didn't say I thought Kitty to be mafia necessarily, just that

I find her slightly more likely to be mafia than anyone else in the thread

.

My issue is you haven't explained

why

you think that. At least, not adequately for me.

+1 to recent Drew questions, though I would like to add that I'd like an explanation for jumping on Fairies as opposed to me? Was it just that you thought she'd put me at L-3 and I'd only put her at L-4? Cuz that particular choice is suspicious to me for <reasons>.

I must have miscounted, as I honestly thought it put you at L-2, which opens the possibility of a lynch happening too quickly. (I can't mention the game I am referring to, which I draw this negative experience from, where this happened on Day 1 due to it still being in play).

My reasoning was because she seemed to contradict herself. On the one hand, she was saying she didn't like people voting without reason, then on the other hand she votes for you without much (any??) reasoning at all. Given your wagon was gathering pace (or so I thought), it stank of opportunistic voting.

Re why I didn't jump on you? Partly the previous game experience I have mentioned, partly because I like to hang back a little more in the first few pages and watch behaviour (it identifies to me intention / where the angle of the game is being shifted in a neg-town way), partly because I simply had no reason to vote for you other than RVS, and to add speed to an RVS wagon isn't a very helpful move IMHO. I find RVS to be a very mixed bag, so I tend to stay out of it in favour of watching and seeing.

I'm curious about what people think of her first post. Would you expect that from town or scum?

Diplomatic, and concerning, but it could be due to confbias.

I was L-1 once, I think. I was okay with the lynch at the time though, because I figured both scum had to be on my wagon because the reasons for the votes on me where stupider than the reasons for the votes on me now. However, I have no reason not to buy your story so unless someone/something convinces me otherwise:

UNVOTE: Kitty

See, this just makes your initial vote seem all the more suspicious. I maintain my vote.

[Drew-Sta]

Drew, elk put ILF at L-2? And KittyMo was at L-3. So.

I honestly didn't see this. The last day and a half have been very busy due to work so I'm missing things. I just went back and had a look - elk made one post, and it was the vote on Fairies... That's quite suspect too. Seems to be an opportunistic lurker right there...

Well, the way I see it, if this were a world where only one of ILF or Kitty were mafia, there's a greater chance it would be Kitty. It's only the second day of Day 1, so I'm not anywhere near confident yet. Just guessing.

Why Kitty? I'm not suggesting you're wrong, just trying to get a broader picture.

I don't really know what a footy is, probably not a foot massage? But I'm okay, thank you. I had a weird nightmare and could use a hug and maybe some chocolate milk.

Footy is this.

[Drew-Sta]

Vote Count 1.2

I Love Fairies

- bjc, Drew-Sta, theelkspeaks (L-4)

Drew-Sta

-

OkaPoka, Grib, Grib (L-4)

KittyMo- Nul, Boonskiies (L-5)
theelksspeaks- shinyskarmory, massive (L-5)
bjc- Shinobi (L-6)

Not Voting: I Love Fairies, KittyMo

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes for a lynch
(expired on 2014-07-03 00:22:00)

@Mod - Can you confirm that is correct for me?

It is correct.

[Drew-Sta]

How the hell did you miss when I explained why? Where I explained why is literally in a nested quote in your post.

How the living fuck does that make my initial vote seem all the more suspicious?

Like, fuck each and every single one of you if you're going to vote me for not voting, and then proceed to vote me for voting. That's fucking bullshit. All of you guys put me in an impossible situation where I did nothing wrong, but you all vote me anyways. I'm fucking damned if I don't, damned if I do, and that's not fair. Putting people in unfair situations for no reason is scummy as shit.

My vote was justified, and it was ASKED FOR. If people didn't ask me to vote, I probably wouldn't have, because I don't feel very strongly about anyone in this game yet, given that it's still only like 2 days in.

1. I didn't ask you to vote for someone.
2. I think the reasons you did vote, and who you voted for, were opportunistic.
3. I agree we, as a group, have boxed you into a situation.

On that 3rd point I am very worried.

UNVOTE: ILF as I now feel like I've jumped the gun in a paranoid fashion.

Gah.

[Drew-Sta]

So much hangover. Much pain. Wow...

[Drew-Sta]

I'm massively hungover. Still trying to work out where my pants went. I will post something solid in a few hours as I've still been reading and have a few thoughts and reads.

[Drew-Sta]

I FOUND MY PANTS!

Ok, hangover is mostly gone. Some posting needs to happen now.

@ OkaPoka

- 88 - I believe Grib has a double vote as part of his role. The wiki about it here.

Re post 65 - I see it as the beginnings of a tunnel, IMHO. He does seem convinced.

@ Boonskiies

- 59, 68 - Are you saying your only read on Shinobi, who has posted 4 times (one being RVS, one being a 'I'll post later', one reflecting a gut feel and one being what appears to be a sarcastic remark) is your evidence for him being mafia? Because I find that... well, I find that a little hard to swallow. 4 posts, two being quite unhelpful, are to me not exactly a mafia tell.

Re 77 - No, it was night here in Australia. And a Saturday. We tend to get blind drunk here on a Saturday.

Re 79 - Are you suggesting I didn't get on ILF to not give myself away? Let me get this straight. I deliberately draw attention to myself by stopping an RVS wagon on Kitty, pointing the finger at ILF as mafia (who you consider, it seems, to be my partner), snagging a shitload of heat on myself and do that to prevent myself from giving myself up? No.

I genuinely considered ILF's vote on Kitty to be extremely opportunistic and very, very scummy. I still lean to her being scum too, even after she pointed out how we had boxed her into a position that was lose/lose. But I am concerned my lean is confbias so I unvoted.

@ Grib

re 62

You posted this:

Gotta start opening your eyes, child.

Can you clarify? I don't understand.

Re post 80 - My spidey sense picked up on that too (the

'I'd rather we not lynch a townie just to confirm my alignment.'

comment by ILF). Still thinking it over.

Hypothesis for discussion.

Kittymo is the target of an RVS wagon. ILF jumps on. I do my thing and claim ILF's vote is mafia-like due to the opportunistic nature of it.

Elk, however, who hasn't RVS'd at all nor voted for Kitty, jumps on after me on ILF, thereby taking some steam out of the Kitty RVS and working (successfully) to take attention off Kitty. Hasn't posted again, save for 82, where he continues his mafia read on ILF. My hypothesis, therefore, is Kitty and ELK are mafia-team.

Thoughts?

[Drew-Sta]

Prod dodge. Writing something now.

[Drew-Sta]

Ok, this took longer than I thought to get to my computer and post. My little girl had a large day so needed a bit more TLC; I apologise.

Spoiler: My reasoning for Oka vote

My read since I last posted is, well... Oka just sticks out like a sore thumb. Seriously, I'm flabbergasted. Post 93 and post 104 are ludicrous. Either he is going for a reaction (possible), he is paranoid delusional (probable) or he is mafia (also probable). Boon joins in with post 105 then does a complete turn around in 111 right after Grib posts. These two are not good for town and their general thread management, the distancing they are doing then bouncing off each other is... well its not pro-town, I believe.

The only thing that made me doubt Oka as mafia is 149, where he makes a fairly panicked post (rightly) for bjr to not claim PR. But then he jumps right on bjc in 157 was the clincher. Oka, to me, reads mafia. His behaviour is simply not consistent or logical or town-positive. Grib's comment in 167 sums it up for me and his 'kill it with fire' is something I chuckled at...

VOTE: Oka

A few other things.

Spoiler:

KittMo

- In 96, there's a lot to think about in that. Your post reads town, and I'm content with your answer right now, but want to go back and iso the both of you and reread.

Boon

- re 98, her behaviour is still very sus. I am leaning more newb than anything, but want to go back and review her previous games. That will help me get more of an understanding of whether my suspicions are founded.

Grib

- re 110 and this quote:

I kept pointing out things you apparently missed. Stop missing things, is what I meant. In a gentle way.

It's probably nothing. But it'll be there if it becomes relevant later in the game.

Agreed, I do keep missing things and it is poor form. I'd like to justify it by saying I have to phone surf a lot due to my work, so skim too quickly, but this isn't an acceptable answer.

ILF

- This post 138 just... it doesn't read right. You just keep doing things that make me sit back and think maybe I don't have conf bias. Why bjc? What is it about him that has got you?

bjc

- Stupid, stupid, stupid is all I can say. This post 144 is horrible. What is interesting is who jumped

on

it though.

massive

- I got a strong townread on him so far. Post 160 is the reason.

My reads so far (in no particular order and a TL;DR summary):

Oka - strong mafia
bjc - dumbass, null
Grib - clever and leaning on town. Using the DV the way he is reads like town. If he's mafia, then he's got balls the size of church bells.
massive - strong town
theelkspeaks - leaning mafia
ILoveFairies - null and could lean either way depending on how I read her posts. Something is not right with what she keeps posting...
Shinobi - hardass, null
shinyskarmory - null
Octopus - liking his posts so far, leaning town
KittyMo - null to very slight mafia; she seems... a little too diplomatic.
Boonskiies - unusual, leaning mafia. He and Oka's interaction is... well, they remind me a bit of Statler and Waldorf.

[Drew-Sta]

What I'm trying to understand here is what Drew-Sta pointed out, although really badly. If it's scummy to jump on a random band wagon then logically Boon was more scummy than Kitty. Boon 'randomly' placed Kitty on 3 votes (L-4), whereas Kitty moved you up to 2 votes (L-5, hardly a wagon). With your stated reason for voting why did you therefore find Kitty scummier than Boon? And didn't Grib do exactly the same as Kitty?

Yep, agree. Well said, sums up what I was thinking that I couldn't articulate.

[Drew-Sta]

Before I get serious I just have to point out the utter hilarity of someone named 'Fat _Tony' joining a game of mafia. Are usernames a valid lynch argument? I've got this image running through my head everytime I see his name:

[Drew-Sta]

@Drew - you're the first person to ever comment on that and I've been on the forums sporadically for 6 years. Well done

Ok, so a few things to note (apologies for being absent, my 8 month old girl is teething).

1. I read Octupus' post quite well. At least, I think going out mafia-hunting straight off the bat reads as townish to me. Good vibe from that. Not sure he's pegged massive correctly (who I had as null) but good interaction from all of us is going to help.

2. Boonkskiies, 234, 245 and 251. They almost seem like an attempt by you to highlight your mistake / poor play and therefore press for towncred. You've emphasised this - three times to me is emphasis although that's just me and can discuss this in a very public way. What are peoples thoughts on this? Boon?

3. massive - can you explain a little more about your suspicion of Octopus? It seems to be simply OMGUS based; he focuses on you and he becomes mafia in your eyes (at least, that's how I'm reading 249's second last line)?

4. I still lean null-mafia on KittyMo. Fat_Tony's arrival hasn't changed that.

5. Grib, any thoughts yet?

My lean on ILF is still there. I believe Octopus is attempting to prove a massive / ILF connection or buddying exists. Irrespective, she still doesn't sit well with me. I have a gut feel but not sure I can back it up with proper facts yet. She's on VLA too so not keen to do anything til she returns.

I still lean towards theelkspeaks as mafia based too. He's lurking furiously and 243 has me intrigued. Why mention the PR? It seems like a search for info to PoE who could be a PR.

VOTE: theelkspeaks - I'd like to know why the lurking, why the comment in 243. The vote is to pressure a response.

[Drew-Sta]

Sure. As noted, it's possible it's OMGUS, but I don't think his reading comprehension is poor and yet he seems bent on misrepresenting me. In fact, start of today is the first time he's mentioned me at all, so I'm confused (a) what I might have done to make him build such a poor case against me and (2) how I was chosen to begin with since he had suspicions on a fair number of people yesterday that are both still here and still suspicious (Boon, ILF).

Your defence of ILF yet your condemnation of Oka is what he's angling at. I think (correct me if I'm wrong Octopus) that his gut says ILF is not town, and he's linked your defence of ILF but your lack of defence to Oka as a mafia-team.

I don't think its misrepresentation as it is a circumstantial argument, which he's then made into a case.

This is less a defence of Octopus and more of an attempt to try and understand intent. He

looks

like he's hunting mafia (even though the case is shaky), and that is why I find it a town-tell for me at the moment.

I also still have a bad feeling about ILF, so I'm inclined to give him more space. I would sooner link ILF and Boon given Boon's attempt to claim his mistake on Shinobi.

In fact, that seems far more plausible right now. Boon and ILF. Thoughts?

[Drew-Sta]

Fuck. I should have picked that up...

Boon, you got some answering to do. That deadset looks like a slip.

Going back to ISO him right now.

[Drew-Sta]

Sure would like elk, Drew, ILF to check in.

I checked in yesterday / your last night. I only get a couple of chances a day to check in.

Boons is AtE'ing all over the shop. Reads like a mafia caught out. More in a few hours.

[Drew-Sta]

You're doing everything to prevent yourself getting lynched (common to both mafia and town) yet you're doing nothing to show who you feel is mafia (as I have indicated back in 252) which is both flailing and a mafia-tell in most peoples books.

The ATE / ATF is making your flailing quite frantic here Boons. You must understand that how you are presenting is extremely neg town and appears like you're a mafia who has been caught out. 294 could be an honest mistake (referencing a previous post) but honestly - it simply reads like a mafia slip and the ATE you're putting out in 298 makes me feel you are mafia.

My only issue is this seems almost too obvious (which is why I'm withholding vote right now). I get mafia make mistakes, but we as town we cannot afford to make another. Maybe I'm double guessing myself here?

Thoughts? I'd really like to see a few more people weigh in on this.

[Drew-Sta]

Fat Tony and Bjc

are my scum reads. If I was scum, I would have tried to make a wagon on one of my scum brethren to try and get a lynch on them, and then it would seemingly clear my name. I even have done that in one of my most recent games.

Why?

[Drew-Sta]

Fat Tony and Bjc are my scum reads. If I

was

scum, I would have tried to make a wagon on one of my scum brethren to try and get a lynch on them, and then it would seemingly clear my name. I even have done that in one of my most recent games.

Were* because you're talking about a hypothetical situation.

Also, that is a really shitty plan for scum. And cool anecdotal evidence, bro.

Someone put him to L-1 so I can hammer.

Dude I didn't even know I signed up for this game so I figured I would make myself the lowest-hanging fruit of all time, and you guys outed yourselves. Sorry you can't seem to play well as scum.

I'm a hammer tool for the town, if you don't want me hammering then don't put people to L-1. If that bothers you as scum then try to night kill me.

This is a problem. I have no idea why you are so keen to hammer.

[Drew-Sta]

Grib has that second vote he could easily put on me. Not so sure I'm scum now, are you boys and girls?!!?!?!!?

I'm more worried about bjc's infatuation with hammering. I have ISO'd you again and do think there's a link between you and ILF (TT).

183 - ILF appears to be buddying you.
199 - An attempt to bus Boon / distance given Boon was getting attention at the time.

For Boon:

59 - Links Shinobi and ILF; they kill Shinobi so that Boon can make the claims that he is very surprised by the kill (see my point 2 in 252), which is distancing and allows him to claim ILF isn't mafia (the semantic shit he pulled)).
68, 83 - Distancing from ILF
85 - wants to kill Shinobi not ILF first; given we know now Shinobi was town, its basically viewed by me as protecting his mafia partner
257 - Complete flip flop on ILF's read to town, which seems to have been the desired result. Kill the perceived mafia partner in an attempt to clear ILF's name and then move from there.

UNVOTE: theelkspeaks

I am intending to vote Boonskiies, but concerned what bjc's behaviour means. I don't know why he wants to hammer. It concerns me.

I'm believe Boon is mafia. The 'too obvious' concern has melted away for me once I paired ILF's and Boon's interactions via ISO (IMHO) and when I formed the theory based on their interactions.

What do people think of this?

I appreciate this, because I was looking at you as a possible massive partner based on his choice to unvote you on page 12.

This looks like you are happy to lynch him instead of yourself, which would imply you are not partners.

Your ISO seems to have no end of odd mistakes in it, all the same.

Bussing is a thing.

Boonskiies is just latching onto other people's reads. He claims his two scumreads are bjc and Fat_Tony, does absolutely fuck all to push for their lynch, and then votes massive. Granted, the "massive accidentally killed Shinobi" scenario makes sense, but it still bugs me.

Walk me through the "obvious" part. Make the discussion happen.

Hider is a 2-shot role that dies when targeting scum. He died, on a night when there were two kills. I would expect him to use one of the shots. He would have crumbed his strongest suspect and then tested them.

Man I love having two votes.

Second Vote: massive

Hey massive. What say you.

Optimal hider play is to hide with someone they think town, not that they think scum. They generally aren't TRYING to get killed. That was my first thought of the day and unfortunately Shinobi's only contribution to who might be town was ILF "because gut." That's another notch against ILF (sorry, Tattlerale) but wasn't anywhere near conclusive enough to bring up. In any event, I figure I'm actually the LAST person Shinobi's would hide with.

The bolded I agree with, Grib. What do you think of what I have posted?

[Drew-Sta]

Situation - wait, first; UNVOTE:

Situation - bjc is behaving actively anti-town, will never get NK'd unless there's a vig, and even then seems just as likely to flip town as scum because his play is always this horrible from what I read about him.

You know what? I actually believe Boon is town. Sort of. I believe he COULD be town. I've unvoted. Drew, if you still want to vote for Boon, there's your chance. I have no intention of pushing anyone to L-1 with so long left before deadline, barring a solid scumslip.

If we can't find consensus pre-DL, bjc is assuredly the best last-minute lynch. He is either least valuable townie or scum - so we either win, or lose as little as possible. We should bear this in mind if the day goes late.

I'm less inclined to go back to night immediately as well, but it is

very

telling you believe Boon is town given I've just given evidence that your slot and his appear linked. The unvote confirms it to a point. One of the reasons I held off was to see what your reaction would be to my post and see if you agreed or not.

You pulling off appears more like protection of him given you have just pulled off him with almost zero evidence to the contrary of what I have posted and you didn't want bjc to hammer and expose the issue.

I propose the theory that Boon and Fat_Tony / ILF are a mafia team. I will back my theory with my vote.

VOTE: Boonskiies

I'm happy to be swayed on this but I believe the evidence I've presented seems fairly sound. If someone can poke some holes in it and tell me where you think I'm wrong, I'm happy to alter my vote.

[Drew-Sta]

Fuck.

I just quoted and and read Fat Tony's post as TT. Genuine misunderstanding there.

Completely disregard 334. The replacements and phone posting have seen me mix up two slots.

I do still believe Boon is mafia. I believe my theory of Boon/TT team is accurate. My post in 334 is in error and should be disregarded.

Sorry Fat_Tony.

[Drew-Sta]

On phone. Can someone explain the hider thing to me? I've never encountered it before.

[Drew-Sta]

Again, his 'I'm so surprised by Shinobi' comments are very, very odd and seem to be aiming at gaining town cred.

The reaction to getting off L-1 is concerning too.

I'm interested in what Octopus has to say, where are you mate?

[Drew-Sta]

We're at an impasse, I feel. I've seen no evidence to change my vote. Boon has not justified his behaviour, so he's either a town member playing poorly or mafia trolling and getting away with it.

We need more interaction people. We need to work this our or it will cost us.

[Drew-Sta]

So, no double lynch?

We then need to make a choice of Boon or massive. I feel more confident that Boon is mafia than I do with massive.

I'll keep my vote there.

[Drew-Sta]

Woah. I go to sleep, wake up and find the shit has hit the fan.

Will reread a bit then come back.

[Drew-Sta]

Ok, so let me get this straight:

Boon

- his behaviour is mafia-like, the distancing from the Shinobi death being my big belief in his tell as mafia combined with his ongoing lack of defence against anyone putting information in front of him (which seems like he's just given up on defending himself as he knows he's found out), and I believe he is mafia.

massive

- confirming himself as an SK (does that make there two factions in this game or is he part of mafia? On this I'm a bit clueless as I'm still getting familiar with how MafiaScum games tend to operate), which makes him also scum.

The Boon read I'm confident on, but from what I've just read over the last few pages the massive bit is what I'm seeking clarity on. Have I summed this up right?

BTW, if this is true, well played Grib / others for working it out as I had massive pegged as town.

[Drew-Sta]

Ok, well done TT

This seems to suggest to me that we have one confirmed SK and one mostly confirmed mafia in Boon.

Logic suggests we lynch what we are certain on. I'm certain Boon is mafia, but we sit assured massive is the SK (mostly as he has owned up to it). On that basis...

UNVOTE: Boon

Intent to hammer on massive. Is there anything I should take into consideration? I'm nervous about this...

[Drew-Sta]

Vote Count 2.11

Boonskiies- Fat_Tony, theelkspeaks (L-3)

massive- Tattletale, octopus, Boonskiies, bjc (L-1)

Not Voting: Grib, massive, Drew-Sta

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch
(expired on 2014-07-11 23:35:00)

Every time you post the 'mine' bit, all I see is:

http://data1.whicdn.com/images/71712911/large.gif

Me to, I forget who I picked that up off of.

[Drew-Sta]

Sorry, should be:

[Drew-Sta]

Ok, Octopus makes sense but I still think Boon is our man. Willing to give him a chance to clear his name, though.

Boon?

[Drew-Sta]

/echo?

[Drew-Sta]

/yodelayheehoo

[Drew-Sta]

Gee, so crowdy tonight. I can barely get a word in there's so much going on. /sarcasm.

Sticking with my original read as Boon hasn't come through with any more info.

VOTE: Boon

Octopus / bjc - what do you think of the NK? Can we glean any info out of it do you think? I had a town read on Grib.

[Drew-Sta]

What's so confusing? He was obvtown.

Expand. Keen to hear your analysis as I genuinely feel otherwise.

[Drew-Sta]

We can't do much til you post Boon. I still believe you're mafia.

[Drew-Sta]

/sigh

So... Octopus is your scum read as he did not have Grib as a town read..?

[Drew-Sta]

Interesting. Can you rattle off your skills?

Boon, massive turn of face their. You accepted his claim oretty quick.

[Drew-Sta]

Octopus is my #1 scum read. I had him pretty much set as town, as he was obviously 'scum hunting', but once he got here, he immediately targeted the two easiest people to try and get a bandwagon on. And Grib was obv town....it would be way unbalanced to give scum a double vote, and the fact that he didn't even take major abuse to the role, like putting both votes on one person, should show he was obvtown. Octopus is convinced he was not obvtown. Grib was very hesitant about the double lynch happening, way too much if he was scum.

I don't see any reason for him to false claim. What does everyone else think? Saving himself for one more turn or legit? I mean, he could have easily just went for a lynch at me, and saved himself. He's a sure NK now.

I didn't say I turned. My vote is still on him. I'm just posting observations. He has to prove he's not just false claiming.

Boon, you are so, so,

so

fucking inconsistent. In the space of hours you've virtually gone from reading Octopus as mafia to reading him as town and voting in line with his investigation without any questioning or pressure.

By golly, your play sends alarm bells off in my head. Not to mention your 'I'm VT gaiz! Juz trust meeee!'

@Drew-Sta. Not really, it gives scum clue as to optimal strategy for the night, and it assists Tattletale in the construction of her fake claim. You do realise that you should be pushing TT for a claim after an allegation like that don't you?

As in, we should be pushing him for a claim? Of course. We should. And I want it from TT. Up to them now to provide.

I would, however, like an answer as to why you held off on information regarding TT. It seems to me that you did so to get the answer of how many mafia were in the game, which then appears to be an attempt to 'hold over' a lynch option til tomorrow. Can you confirm?

Also, what else do you know? What else can you tell us?

Three theories:

1. Boon and Octo are mafia, and they're bouncing off each other. We're currently at LyLo so Octo is working for final mislynch to get them over the edge and we lose when we lynch TT. Not my favourite theory, but a possibility. We need to cover all bases so had to include it.
2. TT is genuinely mafia. We lynch, one mafia left, we work to get it right the next day and hopefully win the game. (This seems accurate, but has no team mate)
3. Boon is mafia with TT (which seems like a decent possibility) and they've been bouncing off each other a lot all game. Octo comes out with a Hail Mary investigation, and Boon is now bussing his partner to get towncred. (This one seems most likely - although I have found TT more affable and they have posted in a way I consider more town, I am still sus based off ILF's contribution.) I support this based off my earlier gut feeling that ILF was mafia.

Thoughts? I am personally thinking Theory 3. Happy to lynch either TT or Boon. I won't change my vote until we get more consensus.

[Drew-Sta]

Lynch the claimed JOAT, that's a super shitty fake claim and he's obviously scum from my POV based on his posts/wording/tone.

vote: Octopus

for being scum. Tattletale already pointed it out, but when you get a guilty...

I just went and had a look at the wiki. Jack of all trades. I'm a little bit more skeptical, I didn't realise the role was so... unusual.

Octo, you'll need to claim more than what you have. If we're at LyLo, as we believe, then you withholding information is an issue and simply presents as a fake claim. TBH, bjc is right - I didn't see it in the light he presented but he is right.

To simply claim someone is mafia as a JOAT (lets be realistic here, you haven't had a lot of interaction with ILF or TT from your your ISO (most of them were questions to ILF that seemed to satisfy your curiosity)) - for us to suddenly believe you picked TT (who you haven't really interacted with at all) and struck gold like that... well... you have to appreciate it seems like a stretch.

I feel a bit silly now stating Boon should ask more questions when I should be doing the same

Or option #4, where just Octopus is mafia. UNLESS they're both mafia.

They're just theories mate. I posit them to get discussion.

I think you might be scum with Octopus but that's not worth discussing right now.

Why not?

Octopus claimed scum with that super shitty fake claim/guilty. We're in LyLo what a 'perfect' way to try and push for the win with an apathetic town.

-IT IS EVEN RARER (read: nonexistent) for town to withhold a guilty in our current situation, then come out and say "well fuck it I got a guilty on someone that has been scummy all game."

These two quotes were the ones that really got my attention. I agree with them. It seems like a last throw of the dice to secure the game.

Boon don't be a fool, you may actually be town. Please if you *are* town do not listen to those shitty theories.

Again, they're just theories for discussion. I will admit I am probably tunnelling on Boon, but his behaviour is a massive red flag for me.

Boonskiies lack of effort defending himself is pretty sad. In either case, we need to lynch either the claimed JOAT or the claimed guilty, no point in lynching anyone else.

I'm inclined to lynch Tattle more, I think. Tattle and Octo, tell us why we should lynch the other instead of you.

hmmm....

Explain?

[Drew-Sta]

/sigh.

You're not going to believe me, are you Boon. FFS. I'm really struggling with you.

UNVOTE: Boonskiies
VOTE: Octopus

I hope your gut is right bjc. I think it is, but I still have an uneasy feeling Boon has played us again.

[Drew-Sta]

That's L-1 now.

[Drew-Sta]

Woah. Did you just hammer without letting Octopus have a right of reply?!

Oh Boon, you did play us, didn't you... I can't believe it.

Fuck.

[Drew-Sta]

Drew, you've been on me all game, haha.

Even before I was deemed as scummy.

Argh! You

are

mafia, aren't you! Argh!!!

[Drew-Sta]

Bussing your buddy now, Boon?

Clearly Octo was right. Tattertale is mafia.

The deal is, who is the other member? Boon or bjc? We need to work that out for tomorrow.

VOTE: Tattertale

[Drew-Sta]

I'm tempted to say it is Boon right now, although bjc's attack on Octopus in his defence on TT makes me think there is a real possibility it is him.

I would like to point out my hammer on Octopus. There would have been no reason for me to do that as scum. If there were 3 scum, it would have made sense, but since there turned out to be only 2, it was just a bad play of a town member.

Really? That's your excuse? It was bad play? Oh Boon, seriously. You hammered without allowing a response when we had days worth of time left! Do you realise how scummy that is?

Now, I'd like to point out the fact that Drew has not really ever voted on anyone other than me besides the current wagon. He had also previously voted Elk, and since elk was neighborizer, it means he wasn't chosen by Elk to join the neighborhood. I also believe he tried to bus ILF to make him potentially get town cred, but in doing so, it appeared as if he was semi-coaching ILF. And, ILF being replaced by Tattletale, ended up being scum.

So you're saying that since I've not sprayed my vote, that makes me mafia..?

Also, he seems to be over acting on all the little possibilities and effects that have happened. "Tattletale has died" Drew - "OH NO!! WHT HE BE SCUM? I HAS NO IDEA!!!"


So yes, I am leaning towards Drew being scum.

Given I had read ILF as scum on literally the first day, no - I'm not surprised they ended up being mafia. Not surprised at all. I'm glad my original read is vindicated, actually.

[Drew-Sta]

Me too but my goodness why the fuck would you withhold a ficking guilty? That was a first for me.

Withhold?

[Drew-Sta]

I'm driving right now but will respond to this in about forty minutes.

[Drew-Sta]

I am confident you're mafia Boon. Very. I doubted myself (as I doubted my ILF read) but I'm confident you are mafia.

Driving one handed right now sorry for spelling / brevity

[Drew-Sta]

I can't believe you're going to buy Boon's story bjc.

The hammer on Octopus is a dead giveaway. He's at L-1 for an age, gives no analysis. Now at LyLo he concocts some analysis, siding with you and pointing the finger at me and you believe him?

/le sigh.

If anything, the fact he's holding off vote identifies he's being opportunistic.

I'm at least going to go with my gut. VOTE: Boon

/cue AtE claim from Boon.

[Drew-Sta]

Gaydriving bullshit

[Drew-Sta]

Yes i did. At 110km perhour

[Drew-Sta]

If ita bjc i'll crash my car

[Drew-Sta]

Please retract your vote Drew....

Why? I believe your mafia andI'm sticking tomy guns

[Drew-Sta]

Oh bjc If I wasn't convinced it was boon I woyld go u

[Drew-Sta]

Heh. GG guys

[Drew-Sta]

Well in bjc

[Drew-Sta]

Yep. In hindsight should have killed bjc, kept elk alive.

[Drew-Sta]

I'm really surprised I didn't get lynched a few days ago. Massive slipping saved my life so much....

I was pushing for it

A bit disappointed now I really thought bjc would lead the charge on Boon.

You played really well in the last two phases bjc. Well done. What tipped you off that it was me?

[Drew-Sta]

Well, I was obv town.

[Drew-Sta]

Thanks FF for the game too. Really enjoyed it

Yay! Well done guys, awesome call bjc.

I'd say that was incredibly well played Drew, that was spectacular, I didn't have the vaguest suspicion right until you 'fessed up. I suppose it helped that Boonskiies was your best team-mate .

Thanks for modding Formerfish.

You hurt me in my heart, Drew. But that was a fantastic play.

And thanks bjc for saving town. I only doubted you a little bit near the end (mostly because I failed to reevaluate my townread on Drew).

Thanks guys!

Woah. Did you just hammer without letting Octopus have a right of reply?!

Oh Boon, you did play us, didn't you... I can't believe it.

Fuck.

Drew, you've been on me all game, haha.

Even before I was deemed as scummy.

Argh! You

are

mafia, aren't you! Argh!!!

Not that this matters since I wasn't in the game, but this is when I decided Drew was scum (and thought town would lose, so gj pulling that out bjc.)

Yeah, I was getting jittery at that point. I had a feeling that post was over the top.

[Drew-Sta]

Thanks Oka!

A shame I couldn't convert the final hurdle.

[Drew-Sta]

Nope. I play on another site, but definitely not an alt.