Mini 1582: Formerfish's First Foray (Game Over)

[KittyMo]

So we meet again.

VOTE: massive

[KittyMo]

unvote; vote fairies

[KittyMo]

Hi Gribblypuff, you called? I need another Fairies post before I get less tight-lipped.

I'll say that if Fairies is town then Drew looks a lot more opportunistic here to me than elk (whose reasoning is less strawman and more trying to read into her motivations.)

[KittyMo]

So I troll-voted Fairies because I wanted to see how much her reaction would elevate to getting another vote after having complained about getting votes w/out reasons. Glad to see that she is now posting about things other than her dreams about being an IC, and that in-thread posting is picking up a little.

massive - I don't disagree that elk specifically voting was somewhat of a stretch in context but I'm not following why that's scummy at this stage of the game?

+1 to recent Drew questions, though I would like to add that I'd like an explanation for jumping on Fairies as opposed to me? Was it just that you thought she'd put me at L-3 and I'd only put her at L-4? Cuz that particular choice is suspicious to me for <reasons>.

Kitty - why is Fairies not opportunistic given what she has done?

Hm? I mean I think it's defensive of her (not opportunistic) to only really pay attention to the reasonless votes that are on her and not be looking at Boon or Shinobi, but I know from my

stalking of the whole playerlist

skimming that she's never been lynched in a game before and I doubt she's been under much lynch pressure, let alone under these circumstances, so it's not surprising? Though she also has no completed scum games and so that could be a source of "I have no idea what I'm doing" as well.

I'm curious about what people think of her first post. Would you expect that from town or scum?

*hugs* for Grib.

[KittyMo]

unvote

[KittyMo]

What kind of offsite mafia experience do you have, Boon?

[KittyMo]

Oka, does Boon's experience level + follow-up posts change your opinion of him at all?

@skarmory

- massive asked you a question.

Tell me that wasn't a slip. Don't make this too easy for us.

I found one instance of a game in which she was town and uses townie as a general term (in her first paragraph) though she does generally use it in the traditional way from what I've seen. By the by, thoughts on Drew at this point? You're still pow-powing him with them doublevotes.

Re: Shinobi, he certainly didn't put much effort into defending Fairies so I'm not sure why that's the main thing being read into about him. I didn't like that as votes were becoming less random (people at that stage were starting to make votes that were at least vaguely game-related and he made no attempt to keep us moving out of the RVS and made an avatar-related vote) and everything else he's done so far has been boring. elk's latest post rubs me the wrong way though.

[KittyMo]

I was L-1 once, I think.

I was okay with the lynch at the time though, because I figured both scum had to be on my wagon

because the reasons for the votes on me where stupider than the reasons for the votes on me now. However, I have no reason not to buy your story so unless someone/something convinces me otherwise:

UNVOTE: Kitty

I was keeping this to myself to see if I could get reads off of anyone else from it, but no one else has reacted at all by now, so. I'm like, 95% sure Fairies is town because she said the bolded part so casually that it doesn't seem like a faked townslip. She has only played games on this site where there are two scum (newbie queue) and I have never seen a mini normal game with anything other than 3 scum (only real way to balance 12p forum games with things other than 3 scum is 2 scum vs all VTs, 2 scum + 1 SK vs VTs + low-power, or 2 scum vs 2 scum vs 10 town, which all seem even more unlikely due to Grib's role.)

@Drew

-

I found one instance of a game in which she was town and uses townie as a general term (in her first paragraph) though she does generally use it in the traditional way from what I've seen.

Elk, however, who hasn't RVS'd at all nor voted for Kitty, jumps on after me on ILF, thereby taking some steam out of the Kitty RVS and working (successfully) to take attention off Kitty. Hasn't posted again, save for 82, where he continues his mafia read on ILF. My hypothesis, therefore, is Kitty and ELK are mafia-team. Thoughts?

I personally don't seriously consider interactional tells until scum flips or until it's pretty lategame. I do think there was a scum motivation to go for Fairies after she voted me because her reaction was pretty defensive/frustrated (easy target.) Initially I was suspicious of you for doing so due to your timing/reasoning than elk but I like how you've been thinking about confirmation bias and you seem pretty genuine in your thoughts. Him sheeping Boon in #82 seems like weak analysis/off. Actually,

vote theelkspeaks

, I was trying to sort whether I found him or Shinobi scummier before revoting and I'm happy with this.

[KittyMo]

Oh, I forgot to add that I don't think the lack of a random vote from elk before voting fairies is a tell. I don't recall that he was actually logged into the site before his first post (I've been watching online times >_>. Oka was just here and then left, which is too bad b/c I want to ask him something.)

So Oka, all you've done so far is post 3 variations of "this person is totes scummy

vote person

" and then change votes w/ no follow-up, and posting thoughts about Grib and double votes (and I'm kinda disappointed by the "Grib is scary if he's scum" conclusion while making no attempt to like, question him or comment on his play at all.) What are some of your actual thought processes about the game at this point?

[KittyMo]

Hi I'm having a bad day so it's better if I don't post anything directed at or about anyone I'm likely to scream at, but as for Octo:

@KittyMo: Why are you making excuses for ILF?

Spoiler: your citation 1

snip->

Hm? I mean I think it's defensive of her (not opportunistic) to only really pay attention to the reasonless votes that are on her and not be looking at Boon or Shinobi, but I know from my

stalking of the whole playerlist

skimming that she's never been lynched in a game before and I doubt she's been under much lynch pressure, let alone under these circumstances, so it's not surprising?

Though she also has no completed scum games and so that could be a source of "I have no idea what I'm doing" as well.

I'm curious about what people think of her first post. Would you expect that from town or scum?

Uh, this was specifically in response to Drew wondering why I didn't dislike her vote on me (specifically, whether it was opportunistic) so I addressed what I thought of it/why it seemed null. (I briefly meta'd the whole player list right after I /confirm'd, I've just felt that what I've brought up about Faeries' was more relevant to speak about.)

Spoiler: your citation 2

Snip->

Tell me that wasn't a slip. Don't make this too easy for us.

I found one instance of a game in which she was town and uses townie as a general term (in her first paragraph) though she does generally use it in the traditional way from what I've seen. By the by, thoughts on Drew at this point? You're still pow-powing him with them doublevotes.

Snip->

[/quote]

Okay, so I explain at the beginning of #96 (the part that you dismissed as IIoA when, uh, I think I gave information and analysis?) that (and why) I'd been hard-townreading her since I unvoted her in #48. Grib pointed out the townie "slip" and at first I was like "oh god am I totally wrong?" since last person I used that tell on was actually scum. However, last time that came up for me in a game the committer had 0 completed town games and so I was like "welp that's kinda scummy and she's referred to an actual townie like that as scum before but not knowing whether you use that as a general term as town makes it an iffy tell." So I just ctrl+f'd all of Fairies's posts on MS with the word townie to see if she'd ever used that wording as town before; if not, obviously it'd have impacted my read on her. I think it's pretty fucking useful to know whether someone in past town games has used "townie" to refer to an unflipped person that they're actually suspicious of in the context of this; hence #86.

And why the 180 on Shinobi?

Spoiler: your quotes of me

Re: Shinobi, he certainly didn't put much effort into defending Fairies so I'm not sure why that's the main thing being read into about him. I didn't like that as votes were becoming less random (people at that stage were starting to make votes that were at least vaguely game-related and he made no attempt to keep us moving out of the RVS and made an avatar-related vote) and everything else he's done so far has been boring. elk's latest post rubs me the wrong way though.

Snip->

I was trying to sort whether I found him or Shinobi scummier before revoting and I'm happy with this.

The point of #86 was that I had reasons to dislike Shinobi but that elk's post re: him looked opportunistic and made me reconsider voting him. Not sure how that's a 180? If you wanted to know why I suspected elk more, p sure I addressed it in the part of #96 you didn't quote. Can you clarify what your issue is?

[KittyMo]

uh so there's 12 players and 13 votes counting grib's 2 which is not enough to doublehammer (can't have 2 people with 7 votes on them simultaneously.) there has to be an odd number of people alive for that to work. I actually already got mod confirmation that doublehammering is possible though a couple of days ago; just wasn't relevant to bring up. perhaps that's part of why this is 12p and not 13p

[KittyMo]

Dear thread, if you are someone that is legit trying to policy lynch someone while doing fuck all else, you are (a) lazy and (b) wasting everybody's time.

boon - How about you make some attempt to refute massive's case against you rather than posting all these needless one liners? Or are you just hoping people will get distracted by other shiny objects and forget about it? Like, clearly you're reading his posts if you care enough to comment about Shinobi's vote.

I think Oka's scum. It rubs me the wrong way that he made a lot of "lol RVS" empty posts without really

doing

RVS. Like he made a show of being "random" and flipping around votes without actually being jokey and without actually analyzing/getting reads. Several more empty posts about wanting to "focus on Grib" without questioning him at all; his attacks on BJC/Boon leave something to be desired; not liking his strawman defense; I find it hard to believe (as in #191) that he apparently actually thinks he's being cooperative and productive - people like Shinobi and bjc know and admit they're being frustratingly vague and it reads as way more genuine.

Oka - Please justify your BJC vote and explain the development of your Boon read throughout the game. And please actually answer my question this time, thanks.

unvote; vote Oka

(L-2); wish elk would post. (Due for a prod in less than an hr btw Fishy)

[KittyMo]

Hey skarmory, can you justify the 24-36 hour stated time frame you gave Oka before voting him? Did you expect him as scum to be less likely to follow through on your questioning with you having outright stated that ultimatum? Cuz idgi

Btw while I'm curious why Shinobi voted massive, I think he has balls for voting a p unviable lynch and don't understand why anyone's auto-scumreading him for it?

[KittyMo]

uh so there's 12 players and 13 votes counting grib's 2 which is not enough to doublehammer (can't have 2 people with 7 votes on them simultaneously.) there has to be an odd number of people alive for that to work. I actually already got mod confirmation that doublehammering is possible though a couple of days ago; just wasn't relevant to bring up. perhaps that's part of why this is 12p and not 13p

[KittyMo]

I was L-1 once, I think.

I was okay with the lynch at the time though, because I figured both scum had to be on my wagon

because the reasons for the votes on me where stupider than the reasons for the votes on me now. However, I have no reason not to buy your story so unless someone/something convinces me otherwise:

UNVOTE: Kitty

I was keeping this to myself to see if I could get reads off of anyone else from it, but no one else has reacted at all by now, so. I'm like, 95% sure Fairies is town because she said the bolded part so casually that it doesn't seem like a faked townslip. She has only played games on this site where there are two scum (newbie queue) and I have never seen a mini normal game with anything other than 3 scum (only real way to balance 12p forum games with things other than 3 scum is 2 scum vs all VTs, 2 scum + 1 SK vs VTs + low-power, or 2 scum vs 2 scum vs 10 town, which all seem even more unlikely due to Grib's role.)
.

apparently I have a very different idea of balance than the mod does. Totally caught Fairies slipping that there were only 2 mafia and then drew the completely wrong conclusion about it.

The neighbouriser thing explains what was up with Grib hard townreading elk. Still wondering what the other JOAT powers were (why did you lynch him w/out letting him fullclaim, again?)

[KittyMo]

Woah. Did you just hammer without letting Octopus have a right of reply?!

Oh Boon, you did play us, didn't you... I can't believe it.

Fuck.

Drew, you've been on me all game, haha.

Even before I was deemed as scummy.

Argh! You

are

mafia, aren't you! Argh!!!

Not that this matters since I wasn't in the game, but this is when I decided Drew was scum (and thought town would lose, so gj pulling that out bjc.)

[KittyMo]

I doc'd Grib N1, I thought he would have been the obvious choice. Who'd have guessed?

I figured that's what happened but then you started calling Grib not obvtown later on.

[KittyMo]

Why you day 1 lynch me?

It's not our fault bjc swooped in out of nowhere.

He should meet ika!

[KittyMo]