Open 563 - Jungle Republic (Night 5~)

[reinoe]

VOTE: reinoe

[reinoe]

This is really dumb

Ok this made me laugh.

[reinoe]

VOTE REINEO

Yeah. No selfvote. I cant see town you doing that even as a joke.

Btw. You guys are dumb. Stahp. See you tomorrow night.

Scum found.

VOTE: snscompt1s

[reinoe]

VOTE REINEO

Yeah. No selfvote. I cant see town you doing that even as a joke.

Btw. You guys are dumb. Stahp. See you tomorrow night.

Scum found.

How exactly?

Votes for someone self-voting which makes his vote the third. It's opportunistic in a game with Five Scum allowing for a flashwagon if they all decide to quickly hop on. He claims that he can't see "town me" doing that even as a joke but there is absolutely no basis for that comment at all.

[reinoe]

Plenty of basis. Ive played with you before and that is my conclusion.

Weak.

Yes five scum, but not all in the same faction.

But that doesn't matter to me what faction they are.

And they are competing against each other.

And also against town. This is the second time in two sentences that you've failed to take into account town.

They will be trying to hunt each other as well.

And the third time in three sentences. Those factions don't matter to me.

Making a third vote on someone when you need seven to lynch, having a valid reason(I dont give a damn if you dont agree), and it clearly not opportunistic is not scummy.

And this is the fourth time in your paragraph you've ignored the town mindset. There are FIVE PEOPLE WHO CAN OPPORTUNISTICALLY jump on me. That's the mindset I'm coming from. It's 7 to lynch. 2+5=7. BAM FLASHWAGON.

They will be trying to hunt each other as well.
You like to cry wolf a lot. Slight joke. But saying its opportunistic like that is you just putting blame on me for you being scummy or because omgus, in which case whatever.

And what exactly is scummy about self-voting during RVS? Nothing, especially if I were using it as a reaction test...

[reinoe]

If anyone actually agrees with Reineo, let me know and I will explain. Id rather not waste my time arguing with him.

You should go to bed and get some rest. I suppose it must be depressing realizing that you've been found out so quickly.

[reinoe]

Past your bedtime, tsktsk.

Both of you aren't making sense much sense at all. Sns' vote 'cause selfvote was bad. Reinoe's vote in response to that was bad.
So if it's any consolation to you, I like reinoe's vote less.

The flashwagon point doesn't make sense. If I understand correctly (I'll try and translate what sns was saying)... wagons don't usually work like that from a scum's perspective. For example, if you have two votes on you, and mafia hops onto the wagon, werewolf is going to be more likely to hop onto the people who hopped onto the wagon rather than you (I think this was what Sns was trying to say, but I'm not sure, he didn't really make sense in that post). That might not make sense, I'm tired, forgive me. In any case, no matter how the wagon would have played out, I don't think the flashwagon fear should have actually been mentioned. The five scum aren't going to all opportunistically wagon that.

And the fact he didn't mention town for those sentences means nothing whatsoever. He wasn't talking about town... that's why...

And other than that, he didn't look scummy in the first place for voting you that way.

You're trying to say what scum will do, and I'm pointing out what they can. Scum have five votes and they can get quite far with an "as long as it ain't me" mindset. Your soft-defense of sns is weak. And it's not about whether he mentions town or not. It was the fact that his analysis didn't come from a town mindset. You even say so, he isn't talking about town. WHY THE FUCK ISN'T HE! Because he's caught scum.

[reinoe]

Yep. But not when he starts off the game. He gets crazier as it goes on. Especially when he keeps fricken selfhammering.

Not mafia has just demonstrated in no uncertain terms that I do whatever the hell I want whenever the hell I want. Sns is trying to imply that self voting during rvs is just too crazy. He's caught scum and is now floundering. More votes on Sns please.

[reinoe]

That sns vote looks like bullshit to me, Reinoe.

I'm sorry you feel that way. You should vote Sns though. Once you try it I'm sure you'll like it.

Plus his entire explaination for his vote was lacking in town motivation and he claims to know my style when not mafia proved without a shadow of a doubt that his claims are bullshit.

[reinoe]

"Without a shadow of doubt"

Yeah, okay. Obviously my vote would be off of you and Pasch wouldnt be calling your vote BS.

Tell me more about how I would never self vote during RVS as town sns. I really want to hear your treatise on this.

[reinoe]

Yet hes not being wagoned as town. Hes being wagoned as scum. Hes not angry and upset as he was when he was town in that one. He is calm and simply degrading others to shift blame.

OMFG. You're floundering so bad right now.

Why did your explanation for your vote completely disregard town mindset?

[reinoe]

If anyone actually agrees with Reineo, let me know and I will explain. Id rather not waste my time arguing with him.

So you place a vote and then admit you really aren't willing to explain/argue with the person you're voting? OBSCUM.

[reinoe]

Oh lordy. I pray to the heavens someone cant be this daft but then I realize theyre just scum.

NM, hes got three votes. Thats a wagon in my eyes. Or had three votes.

If anyone besides Reineo actually thinks Im floundering or have terrible logic, hit me up. But since I doubt that will happen, Reineo can be ignored.

FYI...

Your entire argument that I'm scum is that I would never self vote during RVS as town. An assertion that's been shot to hell.

[reinoe]

So you do consider this a wagon then?
How do you know his motivation? Simply by what he said?
Two similar situations due to the votes.
Acting differently yes.

You're going off the deep end here.

Two similar situations

The situation is different

You're now implying I had some sort of other motivation besides trapping scum so...what were those motivations. I gotta hear this. This is actually getting hilarious.

[reinoe]

Bolded implies you are familiar with him, and so you should know Reinoe does crazy stuff all of the

time

i hate you n_m
scum move
try to trick people into thinking you have actual evidence and then you pull this shit

---

btw both of the votes are still dumb except for not_mafia's at this point.

At first I thought Reinoe was being overzealous in his vote but the more you talk the more I think you were jumping on opportunistically

this is the best point so far because it's true. lucky reineo.

Then vote sns. He's caught scum. And luring scum into traps isn't luck. They're often very obvious.

[reinoe]

Well thank you for speaking for me and interpretting what I said when I didnt say that.
That totally is something town would do. /s

VOTE REINEO

Yeah. No selfvote. I cant see town you doing that even as a joke.

OMG. The hypocrisy just never seems to end now that you've been caught. You're more than happy to misinterpret the motivations of other players, and then falsely label them as scum based on those misinterpreted motivations. But when Not_Mafia quite accurately points out exactly what you're doing with "I never get mislynched as scum but I do as town" comments you get all butthurt. I wish more people were here to see how much and how desperately you're flailing.

[reinoe]

Yeah I still don't see the case against me. I'm blind. And no. Always is definitely an exaggeration, but when I am mislynched, It's Day 1. Bleh.

Well thank you for speaking for me and interpretting what I said when I didnt say that.
That totally is something town would do. /s

VOTE REINEO

Yeah. No selfvote. I cant see town you doing that even as a joke.

OMG. The hypocrisy just never seems to end now that you've been caught. You're more than happy to misinterpret the motivations of other players, and then falsely label them as scum based on those misinterpreted motivations. But when Not_Mafia quite accurately points out exactly what you're doing with "I never get mislynched as scum but I do as town" comments you get all butthurt. I wish more people were here to see how much and how desperately you're flailing.

You keep saying my arguments are terrible etc, and yet instead of refuting them you attack me personally. If the points brought ip on you are so bad you wouldn't have to resort to attacking the messenger.

[reinoe]

I can't imagine building up a trend of "always" in a mere three months.

And yet Sns is confident enough to label me as scum because he can't see me self voting during rvs, an assertion that is ridiculous.

[reinoe]

@reinoe- what is the likelihood of five scum piling on a bandwagon and hammering you? Have you ever seen that happen before? Wouldn't a flashwagon make it obvious who scum are? I can't change your vote and I'm certainly not going to discourage your discussion with him, but I think you ought to take a step back at some point because your suspicion of him has been tunnel-vision like and growing exponentially. You could be wrong as I'm sure you've been before.

More in a sec

sns has repeatedly contradicted himself, engaged in hypocrisy, at one point he made an argument that did not come from a town mindset at all, at this point he's not even trying to refute the arguments brought up. He's attacking the messenger. You say that it's obvious if all five scum were to get on a bandwagon: no it's not. Furthermore it's very typical for all scum to be on a day 1 mislynch.

Sns' scumread on me is a complete fabrication. It's not based on any facts at all.

[reinoe]

So you do consider this a wagon then?
How do you know his motivation? Simply by what he said?
Two similar situations due to the votes.
Acting differently yes.

You're going off the deep end here.

Two similar situations

The situation is different

You're now implying I had some sort of other motivation besides trapping scum so...what were those motivations. I gotta hear this. This is actually getting hilarious.

[reinoe]

Well thank you for speaking for me and interpretting what I said when I didnt say that.
That totally is something town would do. /s

VOTE REINEO

Yeah. No selfvote. I cant see town you doing that even as a joke.

OMG. The hypocrisy just never seems to end now that you've been caught. You're more than happy to misinterpret the motivations of other players, and then falsely label them as scum based on those misinterpreted motivations. But when Not_Mafia quite accurately points out exactly what you're doing with "I never get mislynched as scum but I do as town" comments you get all butthurt. I wish more people were here to see how much and how desperately you're flailing.

[reinoe]

I didn't speak for you nor did I interpret anything you said. I voted you because what you did was scummy. NM spoke for me and interpreted something I didn't say.

Five pages in: no explanation about what is scummy about a self vote during rvs other than "townreinoe would never do that".

[reinoe]

Oh lordy. I pray to the heavens

someone cant be this daft

but then I realize theyre just scum.

You're scum because of an opportunistic jump on Reinoe with no progression in your read

You argue that it was opportunistic, I say it wasn't, I say it would be too obvious as scum, you say WIFOM.
This is how the whole Day has gone down so far:
1) Reineo self votes
2) I vote Reineo and give a reason
3) Reineo unvotes and votes me for being opportunistic scum
4) I get two more votes on me while I try to explain why I voted
5) Reineo continues to insult and frankly draw terrible conclusions no matter what alignment he is. I'm ignoring him for that.

He's a distraction.

When has there been any time for me to further my read? My vote on Reineo is still because of the self vote and

his idiocy.

I got attacked for my read. I have to defend myself. How exactly do I make more of a case on him when I'm being attacked? I already stated my case.

[reinoe]

Oh my such rage. Yes, that's me attacking you so much. /s

That's not rage.

[reinoe]

Also, Bins. I said feel free to meta me, I don't know if it will help. I still don't know why nor how my play is different as town vs scum.

Pedit. I veiw bolding and enlarging that much as rage. But it hardly matters.

I use font modification to highlight key points. You're doing everything you can to justify your erroneous assumptions.

[reinoe]

Oh my such rage. Yes, that's me attacking you so much. /s

Also yes that's you attacking me and not my argument. Just like your "oh my such rage" comment.

[reinoe]

Ok. I will take back the idiocy thing. I apologize. You are being thick though. And a distraction, though that's hardly a personal attack.

pedit. Bins, what? I never said I was right and someone else was wrong. Where are you getting this tone from?

pedit2: Very large key points. You're enlarging them so you can justify your erroneous arguments.

pedit3: How is "Oh my such rage." Attacking you?

Calling me thick and daft is attempting to discredit my character.
calling me a distraction is attempting to discredit my character.
p.e. 2. This is the second time you've implied that I'm lying about my motives with no basis. I've used font modification in just about every game I've ever played. I can't think of any I haven't done it.
p.e. 3. Implying that I'm raging is an attempt to discredit the rationality of my argument without attacking my argument.


Six pages in and no explanation about how self voting during rvs is scummy or out of character for me.

[reinoe]

2. Can you give me an example of all scum being on a day 1 mislynch or of several scum quickly hopping on a bandwagon?
(tia)
.

I'm not ignoring this point wicked. I have to go to work and posting will be limited or non-existent for several hours.

Short version it happened in Mini 1579 and Open 550. But those were games that I played/replaced into. All scum on the wagon.


Mini-1578 scum quickly jumped on a wagon.

pe:edit. One person agrees with my point and bjc said your vote was bad. It's disengenuous to say nobody agrees with my point when half the people in this game haven't commented yet.

pe:edit 2. your explanation isn't doing much good because it's a complete fabrication.

[reinoe]

This sns business reminds me of the first day of the Sleepy Hollow game, only from the outside.

I read up to page 10 of that game and I did notice a lot of similarities. Some of your quotes could directly apply to sns' behavior.

[reinoe]

Please note that I was town in that game. It doesn't look to me like sns is caught scum. It looks like he's town being battered and hasn't got the answers that people seem to want from him.

But people are generally asking him to explain his behavior. For example...

VOTE REINEO

Yeah. No selfvote. I cant see town you doing that even as a joke.

He has no good answer for this.

Tell me more about how I would never self vote during RVS as town sns. I really want to hear your treatise on this.

He has no good answer for this.

How do you know his motivation? Simply by what he said?

You're now implying I had some sort of other motivation besides trapping scum so...what were those motivations. I gotta hear this. This is actually getting hilarious.

He has no good answer to this.

I can't imagine building up a trend of "always" in a mere three months.

And yet Sns is confident enough to label me as scum because he can't see me self voting during rvs, an assertion that is ridiculous.

He has no good answer to this.

I didn't speak for you nor did I interpret anything you said. I voted you because what you did was scummy. NM spoke for me and interpreted something I didn't say.

Five pages in: no explanation about what is scummy about a self vote during rvs other than "townreinoe would never do that".

He has no good answer to this.


sns is being roundabout because he can't give good answer for his behavior. He's resorted to attacking and insulting me instead of answering the questions.

[reinoe]

At the end of the day you have no reason to say "reinoe would never self vote as town". It's such an obvious fabrication. Did you not read my signature? Your comment epitomizes it. You're backpeddling because you're caught in some textbook fabrications.

[reinoe]

I'm having a really hard time getting myself interested in this game at all. I don't normally have this problem. I don't know why I am now. X.X

I understand that bickering can kill enthusiasm and I try to disengage from fruitless discussions for that precise reason. However the tl/dr version of the thread is that Sns is scum after being baited into a trap.

[reinoe]

You never answered my question Reineo. What will you say when I flip town?

I missed the question.

If you flip town I'll do what I always do if someone flips town. I'll analyze your reads, re-evaluate your interactions, and do a nightkill analysis. On the third point I typically don't share my observations until near the end of day two. If you do flip town you'll be happy to know that I seem to give more respect to dead townie reads than most players.

And don't reply with "You won't, you're scum" I want a serious answer for once.

Anyone who answers a question like that I'd consider it a minor scumtells. Presumptuous much?

[reinoe]

Presumptuous because you're pompous.

And ok. You would do what I expect you to do. But what I'm asking is what you will think of your read on me all this time. You're tunneling me because you think I'm scum. You give many many reasons that no one agrees with, yet you still stand by the fact that I'm scum. Will this be a learning experience for you? Or will you simply ignore everyone again? Going after your read is fine. But there comes a point where you have to admit to the possibility of you being wrong.
What will you think about our whole argument when I flip town is what I'm asking. Because you refuse to take any of my explanations from my perspective.

I just completed a micro-game where nobody believed Bulbazak was scum except me and I was right. And when I presented my case based on "Who's more likely to be scum" I actually got scumread for it. When dealing with players who are slippery as scum such as yourself ( and Bulbazak), the scumtells are not going to be bold and apparent. I expected someone to fall for my trap. I'm certain if it wasn't you it would have been someone else.

There's a ghandi quote out there that talks about the minority of one can still be right. Phone posting so I can't find it right now. But the fact that you're trying so hard to discredit everything except the actual argument presented suggests that I'm right.

[reinoe]

I'm having a really hard time getting myself interested in this game at all. I don't normally have this problem. I don't know why I am now. X.X

I understand that bickering can kill enthusiasm and I try to disengage from fruitless discussions for that precise reason. However the tl/dr version of the thread is that Sns is scum after being baited into a trap.

can you point to the trap so I can go back and read it?

The formatting required will have to wait till I get home.

[reinoe]

I'm having a really hard time getting myself interested in this game at all. I don't normally have this problem. I don't know why I am now. X.X

I understand that bickering can kill enthusiasm and I try to disengage from fruitless discussions for that precise reason. However the tl/dr version of the thread is that Sns is scum after being baited into a trap.

can you point to the trap so I can go back and read it?

VOTE REINEO

Yeah. No selfvote. I cant see town you doing that even as a joke.

Btw. You guys are dumb. Stahp. See you tomorrow night.

Scum found.

VOTE: snscompt1s

[reinoe]

You give many many reasons that no one agrees with, yet you still stand by the fact that I'm scum. Will this be a learning experience for you? Or will you simply ignore everyone again?

I thought I did answer your question.

But I'll be more direct:
Just because many people disagree doesn't mean I'm wrong as exemplified by a recent game in which I was the only person right. You've even said so yourself, you've never lost as scum. I haven't reviewed your games so I don't know if you were lynched and your team still won but that's besides the point. Being the only person who has a perspective or opinion doesn't mean that that perspective or opinion is wrong: it's simply hard for others to accept.

Every game is a learning experience, win or lose.

I'm not ignoring everyone. I'm standing by what I believe in. I'm acknowledging their points and trying to clarify why they're incorrect.

I'm sure you're scum and I'll continue to pursue your lynch. However it's clear that your lynch is not happening right now. Also since there's four other scum I'm still observing interactions.

[reinoe]

Pfft. Excuses.

I don't research meta on people. Ain't got time for dat.

Phone posting.

This is why you're scum. Your claim that I would never self-vote as town was a baseless fabrication. I really don't know what more I can do to convince people.

[reinoe]

Pfft. Excuses.

I don't research meta on people. Ain't got time for dat.

Phone posting.

This is why you're scum. Your claim that I would never self-vote as town was a baseless fabrication. I really don't know what more I can do to convince people.

Lol IVE PLAYED WITH YOU. I dont do research meta. Doesnt mean I dont use meta. Heraderp. I am going to suggest you stop tunneling and just assume Im scum. Go after the other four for now since no one agrees with you.

I'm just pointing out every scumslip you make. And in the game we played together I also self-voted. I'm still observing things to see who else might be scum. I know you're not allowed to say who your partners are.

[reinoe]

Pasch, have you decided to change your playstyle somewhat over the past few weeks?

[reinoe]

So I was going to do this for all players in one post but I'm going to do this on a one-post-per-player basis instead since it looks like Bulge is getting flashwagoned. Anyway...

Spoiler: ISO WICKEDESTjr

I don't like the snscompt bandwagon. I have a town read on him based on his reactions to the pressure. There was nothing suspicious about his reinoe vote and I can relate to his statement that he gets lynched often as town but doesn't as scum (if it's true). Given that I'm also someone that is frequently mislynched as town, I think his response to votes is similar and genuine. While I side with snscompt here, I will admit that his vote for reinoe was bad - if he self hammers why can't you see him self voting in RVS? People do it all the time and I would say self hammering is stranger than RVS self voting. The vote is bad, but snscompt isn't suspicious.

@reinoe- what is the likelihood of five scum piling on a bandwagon and hammering you? Have you ever seen that happen before? Wouldn't a flashwagon make it obvious who scum are? I can't change your vote and I'm certainly not going to discourage your discussion with him, but I think you ought to take a step back at some point because your suspicion of him has been tunnel-vision like and growing exponentially. You could be wrong as I'm sure you've been before.

More in a sec

Point 1...
..."There was nothing suspicious about his reinoe vote"...
..."While I side with snscompt here, I will admit that his vote for reinoe was bad - if he self hammers why can't you see him self voting in RVS?"...
..." The vote is bad, but snscompt isn't suspicious"...
Flip flop on sns more please. People get scumread for suspicious votes all the time.
Point 2...
..."Have you ever seen that happen before? Wouldn't a flashwagon make it obvious who scum are?"...
I'm always suspicious of players who have been here for years acting like they've never seen things that I've seen. Screams fake to me. Post 112 is terrible. The probability is unlikely but still possible. That was the point. And almost nobody does day one wagon analysis and even if they do it's not until day three or four anyway and there's no guarantee anyone will get it right. With two scum teams and five scum total, yeah the scum could hide out there easily on a day one flashwagon.

post 114...

Unvote. Vote: Bins

Her vote for snscompt is incredibly opportunistic.

First she says this;

Both of you aren't making sense much sense at all. Sns' vote 'cause selfvote was bad. Reinoe's vote in response to that was bad.
So if it's any consolation to you, I like reinoe's vote less.

-Somewhat a fence sit
-Calls reinoe's vote for snscompt bad
-Says reinoe's vote is worse than snscompt's vote

And then she says this;

don't tell me what to do, reinoe.

VOTE: sns

really? i was waiting for a better defence than that -- not "go meta me." that makes you look worse.
meh, i probably will but i don't have time right now. so take this vote because i expected more.

-by this point Not_Mafia had voted snscompt
-Bins now sides with reinoe
-her reasoning in this quote is bad and looks like an attempt at originality (what's wrong with asking to be meta'd?)

She seems to have changed her mind because of post 39. But post 39 shouldn't have caused her to change her mind. One bad post caused a radical change in her reads? Looks opportunistic.

Wicked has already admitted that sns' vote is bad. Could Bins be opportunistic? Maybe but she justifies said vote well. There were a number of posts between Bins' post 39 and Bins' 79 that could have changed her mind. Post 114 is a hard chainsaw defense for snscopter. If sns or wicked turn out to be scum then the other is the partner.

Next is post 123. Here's the relevant text...

He's attacking the messenger. You say that it's obvious if all five scum were to get on a bandwagon: no it's not. Furthermore it's very typical for all scum to be on a day 1 mislynch.

2. Can you give me an example of all scum being on a day 1 mislynch or of several scum quickly hopping on a bandwagon?
(tia).

Again, this is a pet peeve of mine: someone who's been here for years acting as if they've not seen things that I've seen over a period of just a few months.

Post 155 and 191 has wicked showing suspicion on ShadedMelee. The suspicion is legitimate though. ShadedMelee does have some explaining to do.

Read. If sns is scum wicked is scum and vice versa. Otherwise null.

[reinoe]

Spoiler: maruchan

Actually I've got nothing. Maruchan had done dick-all this game but he's twice mentioned that he's having trouble getting into this game.

could be lurker-scum.

[reinoe]

Spoiler: Not_Mafia

VOTE REINEO

Yeah. No selfvote.

I cant see town you

doing that even as a joke.

Btw. You guys are dumb. Stahp. See you tomorrow night.

Bolded implies you are familiar with him, and so you should know Reinoe does crazy stuff all of the time

I was going to do it myself but the fact that NM went out of the way shows he does a metric fuckton of research he doesn't have to do. He could have only referenced games we've played in together but the fact that he didn't is impressive.

skipping over his sns intereactions for the sake of brevity...

post 124 is a vote on shaded. I've already said the shaded votes are justified.

Post 237.
I actually don't like the reason for this vote. Since RVS is something casual for most people I know I've seen RVS votes sit on people for pages and pages, especially for fast paced games. Also, Pasch did follow through with that big reads list. How often have we seen people say "catching up...oh sorry still catching up...still catching up content is coming soon I promise!!!. So yeah cred for doing what he said he was going to do. Anyway don't like the Pasch vote here.

post 252 is a nice explanation.

Not_Mafia decently town read.

[reinoe]

Went to get something to eat, watched a Shirley Temple movie on t.v. (surprisingly charming), and then fell asleep. Continuing...

Spoiler: ShadedMelee

post 95, and then the explanation in post 156 is weak and shows an opportunistic vote.

Post 167 is not a bad question to ask but for some reason it rubs me the wrong way and I'll try to articulate it: ShadedMelee is implying that sns thinks bjc is town. This early in the game, even 13-14 pages in, you should still be asking questions of anyone even if they're scum. I even ask questions of my "I'm sure you're scum" people right up until lynch and often after lynch too. The idea of not asking questions/talking to your scumreads is something I'm not a fan of. This could be a playstyle difference.

post 170The only real problem I have with this reads list is the Wicked read and the Pasch read. Wicked because it's just a "wicked being wicked and that's town". Well why can't it be scum wicked? I don't like the reasoning for Pasch scum. Pasch could be scum, but the reasons are weak and it looks like he's just trying to set up a lynch here. Same with post 235

Shaded looks like opportunistic scum.

[reinoe]

Spoiler: TheBulge

post 152
Is a super-meh post. Just nothing to get excited about.

I get it. Pasch post seems weird to people. But nobody is giving their own reasoning for why it's weird. Yes I think it's weird to but I'm just pointing out the sheer number of people willing to vote without truly explaining what they have a problem with.

Post 243, 246, and 248 is TheBulge explaining his opportunistic vote. He's right in that several people were being opportunistic, but that doesn't mean you weren't bad too. I wish everyone would explain their votes on Pasch. The fact that Bulge has no good explanation though means he might be scum

Post 250 is a bad OMGUS vote. Using full quote so that anyone reading can see it...

Because I think that's a bullshit reason and I was hoping you had something better.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Not_Mafia

You mean like your explanations for your Pasch vote right? Cuz that was a kinda bullshit reason too.

That is an interesting question asked in post 315. Why would we get more information from a Bulge Lynch than a Pasch lynch? I'm asking because, at least from what I've seen, people don't analyze day one wagons. Bulge could be simply asking this question in order to survive but it's still an interesting question.

Post 319 is an appeal to emotion. Ironically, I often find myself in the same situation. Not being able to articulate my thoughts. This of course doesn't explain the Pasch vote. Even if you're not articulate you should still be able to offer an explanation for things that makes sense.

The Bulge is coming of as opportunistic in a way that could be town or scum.

[reinoe]

Spoiler: Desperado

174
Is a nice observation.

Wow, wagon analysis. Not in-depth analysis but hey somebody did it.

Nine posts and I only see two to comment on. Well, at least that made this easy.

To the surprise of nobody Desperado is coming off as cautios. Slight town vibe, but only slightly. It's going to be tough trying to decide between "scum hunting scum and town hunting scum".

[reinoe]

Spoiler: Bins

Like with Not_Mafia, I'm skipping the interactions during the sns/reinoe debate.

There's a trajectory to the post as Bins notices that TheBulge is posting in other areas. And then the vote in post 206.

In post 274 Bins is one of the few people to give a decent explanation for their Pasch vote.

Bins explains herself fairly well in post 303.

I feel the exact opposite of what Bins expresses in post 331. I'd like to ask why a wagon getting derailed could be more concerning than a wagon getting formed.

This is a good observation for in post 343.

Null-town on Bins. Stronger than the town read on Desp.

[reinoe]

These last ones are going to be the most difficult...

Spoiler: Paschendale

I disagree with the logic of post 172.


Like with post 172, I disagree with some of the reasoning in post 232.

I'm agreeing with 266. I don't like his reads list either but I just disagree with his conclusions. He could just be seeing the game in a different way. I'm not going to scumread someone for disagreeing with me. The "voting for a scum lean, instead of a straight scum" could raise some eyebrows but Pasch explained this well in post 273.

Post 345 demands immediate attention...

VOTE: Bulge

Wicked is probscum too,

but Bulge is more scummy imo.

We can look at him tomorrow as well.

I think they're both town

, but I look forward to the debate.

[reinoe]

Spoiler: fuzzybutternut

A decent catchup-post (201&202).


Post 209...why so much interest in catching werewolves? There's 3 mafia and two werewolves.

[url=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6027445]It's clear that f.b.n. has a somewhat casual style that's also aggressive. Like I've said before, the votes on Bulge are justified.

Fuzzy is null. For some reason I can't seem to get a more solid read here, but it could be because I was enjoying Taco-Bell and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

[reinoe]

an overly defense post

The above is a scum catchup post

I did my "wickedest" analysis as of page 13 post 322. Wickedest's last post with content was on page 8 post 191. Of all the things he could have "caught up on" between those approximately four and a half pages-the first thing he decides to address is making sure he's defending himself from an indirect attack.

[reinoe]

The above is a scum catchup post

I did my "wickedest" analysis as of page 13 post 322. Wickedest's last post with content was on page 8 post 191. Of all the things he could have "caught up on" between those approximately four and a half pages-the first thing he decides to address is making sure he's defending himself from an indirect attack.

Firstly, I am always overly defensive. I have been attacked for that aspect of my play several times in the past. It is irritating that you continue the tradition here. Please take my word for it and don't have issue with it here.

Secondly, I don't see the problem here. Once I switched my vote to Shaded, there were only two things I felt obligated to do - respond to you and question fuzzy. It made more sense for me to respond to an already existing post before generating a new discussion topic. What's the issue?

And does this mean you aren't going to respond to my post?

Is there something there to respond to? Despite what you might think about the sns/reinoe argument I don't engage in pointless squabbling unless I really think it's important. Such things can have a detrimental effect on the town morale.

[reinoe]

What made you think a flash wagon was possible or likely?

I missed this question in your giant wall of hyperdefensiveness...

The probability aspect: I could see five scum easily jumping on someone for flawed/weak reasons. Even if all five scum don't jump on, if a few townies get on a wagon then it's still a convenient mislynch for scum. That's the part where I think a flashwagon is possible.

The likelyhood aspect I've been flashwagoned twice. Once primarily consisting of idiot townies and once by townies plus scum.

I'm really not sure what you're asking otherwise. I spoke my piece and you've spoken your piece. It sounds like you're trying to get into an argument. But maybe you're sincerely trying to engage me and I just don't feel like it right now.

[reinoe]

Pasch, have you decided to change your playstyle somewhat over the past few weeks?

If it has changed, it has been unintentional.

The reason why I ask is because you usually have no trouble establishing strong town cred early. You're often the towniest town who towns up the town. This has frequently led to you getting night-killed ASAP. The situation got so bad that in one of the dead threads you expressed frustration at getting killed so early so often.

I asked if you've changed your playstyle to see if maybe you've decided not to town it up so much. Since you say you're not changing your playstyle I'll have to assume you're scum.

[reinoe]

Shaded is the person I'm most comfortable lynching today besides Sns.

VOTE: shaded melee

[reinoe]

On another note, is Shaded flailing or is it just me?

Please show me where i voted without a reason besides that bjc-reaction vote. Even my RVS vote has a reason.

Also do you think it is ok to vote people without giving reasons?

This suggests that he never had a good reason for his votes to begin with.

[reinoe]

On another note, is Shaded flailing or is it just me?

Please show me where i voted without a reason besides that bjc-reaction vote. Even my RVS vote has a reason.

Also do you think it is ok to vote people without giving reasons?

This suggests that he never had a good reason for his votes to begin with.

I'm sorry?

This confuses me a bit.

Shaded says he doesn't like Pasch' 41 and 53.

Post 41. Many people are initially confused or inquire about bjc's playstyle. So the idea that Pasch commented on it isn't really that strange.

Post 53. Several people were confused or thought the trap I set didn't really exist. Pasch commented on it.

Shaded Melee says he doesn't like those two posts but really they're not that out of the ordinary. He never had a good reason for his bjc vote. He never had a good reason for his Paschendale vote.

[reinoe]

Shaded Melee says he doesn't like those two posts but really they're not that out of the ordinary. He never had a good reason for his bjc vote. He never had a good reason for his Paschendale vote.

My bjc vote was a reaction to his reasoneless votes. It was to pinpoint it is not pro-town. I see nothing wrong with it, go vote me for this bs reason if you want to.

Which was a reasonless vote-thus pinpointing your behavior is not pro-town. I am voting you and I encourage everyone reading this exchange to do the same.

[reinoe]

Shaded, the point was that you voted bjc without giving a reason too. So if voting without immediately giving reasons is a scum tell, wouldn't that mean you and bjc are both scum?

I did not tell it is a scum-tell. It is just not pro-town. Bad play.
I wanted bjc to explain his votes, and i meant to be allegorical there by mimicking him. Vote was just to draw attention of him, not because he was scummy.

BJC was V/LA at the time, you were not.

[reinoe]

Unvote

Shaded is the person I'm most comfortable lynching today besides Sns.

VOTE: shaded melee

Since you seem to be comfortable with lynching either Shade or Sns, why is it that you are trying to lynch Shaded first? Is it because Shaded has more votes and it could be faster to vote him off, or do you get a stronger scum read from him?

It's totally because he has a wagon. He's my second strongest scumread.

[reinoe]

Activity died this game.

Bulge, you're currently voting Not_Mafia. Besides your recent interactions with Not_Mafia, do you think there's anything else that's scummy about his behavior this game?

What are your thoughts on Shaded_Melee? Would you support his lynch? Also what are your thoughts on snscopter?

[reinoe]

^

Alright, I've read.

UNVOTE:

I want to give this SplashCloud person a fair chance to look town.

Gonna leave my vote to myself for now until I see somewhere fit for it.

You could vote for ShadedMelee because that's a scum replace out.

[reinoe]

that's a scum replace out.

Replacing out isn't scummy. He claimed V/LA and then posted saying he was replacing out because he wasn't going to be able to post much. If anything, that's town.

That's right. I was confirmation biasing there.

[reinoe]

He was. Ok. Voting with Fuzzy and Sns who are probably town.

VOTE: Splashcloud

Why a vote there instead of Paschendale?

SNS is town. Maru is useless. Pasch can wait. Let's lynch Shaded tomorrow, Pasch the next day, ez pz lemon sqz

^this.

Pasch is obvious scum from reading the thread. I don't really see Manu as useless.

[reinoe]

mod I'm going to have to replace out. Sorry all.

Sorry to see you go.

[reinoe]

There are some people due prods. The Bulge has his vote parked in a most useless spot.

[reinoe]

GG Mafia. You played particularly well Bins.

Shaded Melee scummed up the slot so much I felt bad for Titus having to sub into it.

[reinoe]

Subject: Ban/Restriction Announcements

Bins has been banned from all mafia games for six months for cheating by playing under two accounts in the same game in multiple instances. The other account was X88B88. Any games that currently have either account in their games must find a replacement. Moderators who have had both accounts in their games will have to make a determination what course of action to take. The listmods are available to provide assistance if needed. Hydras containing Bins will also be banned and will need the other head to play under a different account.

Accounts affected:

Bins
+-
X88B88
Fluff Central
Made of People
OCD
Triptych
Shiva
++
Flirt

Hey bins I hope your win in this game, and the compliments you'ved received should show you that you don't have to cheat to win.