Mini 1604 -- Zodiac Mafia (Game Over)

[Gemini Blind]

This this posting posting restriction restriction is is annoying annoying.

~STD ~STD

Spoiler:

hahaha just kidding.

[Gemini Blind]

VOTE: PeregrinV because my the random horoscope site I went to said we were compatible and I'm afraid of commitment. (The squiggly lines is Aquariaus, right? Aquarius...Aquairiiiiiuuuus~)

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

But we're an air sign...don't you know twins can fly?

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

21 is weird. Not sure yet if suspicious or just eh.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Surprise! I agree with my brother pretty much exactly.
Post 21 is weird but null at the moment.

The first thing I thought when I noticed the horoscope was that at least one person was going to bluff dayvig. Since we absolutely know it's in this game right now I would have been more surprised if no one bluffed it. I'm just going to assume it's a bluff until the mod says otherwise.

@ Elyse are you suspicious of Xayzeck's wagonwagonwagon thing or is your vote more random

-JR

P.S. I'm going to be trying out different little tags to differentiate my posts from STD's just see how they fit. They will all be some variant of ForWhomTheJellyRolls, so if it's not STD or Save the Dragons, it's me.

[Gemini Blind]

So, Juls, did you get a reaction you were looking for with that, or are you still looking?

[Gemini Blind]

-JR

[Gemini Blind]

I suspect scum could control a dayvig kill in the same way they could control a lynch. That said even though a dayvig could be controlled by scum, since it's day one, we can certainly garner information from the kill, and it's not necessarily certain. Since the daykill is not indicative of alignment or role or anything, I think it might benefit the town to know who possessed it at least before we go to night (if the kill is not executed in thread).

Ultimately, it is in the hands of whoever has it, as per the alignment of the stars in the beginning of the game affecting, influencing, and ultimately controlling the RNG that determined who had the kill.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

I'm inclined to think the scum are among the players focusing on dayvig stuff. Aka StrangerCoug and Salamence. And to a lesser extent maybe Gmini Blind.

Um. Why?

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

So you'd rather let the dayvig just fester and hope it's not a dayvig that isn't reveled publically? Honestly I don't know much about dayvigs, they weren't really a thing in my day. But if we get a kill and no claim to who made it, it's only helpful for scum in my opinion.

I suppose if the dayvig has to kill publically, like I said, they can do what they want, but if privately I'd like them to claim.

Also the argument of doing stuff to appear helpful I'm not sure has a lot of legs on D1 page 3.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

I must admit I missed the part where it said the fortunate horoscopes don't expire.

From my point of view, we are town, so if the mafia has it I want to know about it. If town has it, I don't really need to know about it, but it's not something I want to be worrying about on D3-D4 if the person who held it got killed N1 for instance.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

My post refers to someone holding onto it past D1 and dying before they use it, in which the town has no way of knowing what happened to it.

In the land of cupcakes and roses I'd be perfectly fine just having dayvig McGee shoot whoever they damn well please because in the land of cupcakes and roses, dayvig McGee is town.

In the land of Mafiascum.net, dayvig McGee might be scum and I'm going to do my damndest to wrestle that extra power out of scum's hands, especially since "potential manipulation by scum" is a small price to pay for "handing scum an extra kill no questions asked."

I'm way down for Juls's plan. You're completely misrepresenting what controlling the vig shot means.

VOTE: Burn

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

I have misread the post, please ignore the part where I said misrepresenting what controlling the vig shot means.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

I think we should use the vig as a "second lynch" for the town. Can the scum influence it? Sure. But the scum can influence a lynch in the same way.

If the scum has the dayvig power. They either have to use it on someone who the town wants to dayvig or risk outing themselves because they don't kill that person. (If we all say Kill: Soinso with Soinso being the chosen person for the second lynch.
If the scum has the dayvig power and we let the go nuts with it, we're almost guaranteed a townie is shot. We can mitigate that risk somewhat by controlling it like we would an ordinary lynch.

Yes we risk shooting a townie, but I'd rather take the risk than almost guarantee a townie is shot.

-Rolls

[Gemini Blind]

I'm concerned Dry-Fit is taking a more rhetoric approach rather than looking at the situation objectively when he discusses the scumtell of "strategizing."

Talking about the dayvig can't lead to someone's role, at most we can garner some clue of alignment when it's used, so this talk about setup/role stuff doesn't really apply. The idea that scum would appear to be talking as opposed to lurking certainly makes sense but I hardly think attacking people for trying to discuss something on its own is a scumtell, since there wasn't a whole lot to discuss.

VOTE: Dry-Fit

WP has only posted once, it would be nice to see his face again.

Personally I'd rather wait for Salamence to get his bearings before I consider doing anything with him since we're not in a rush.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Oooh Salamence wagon huh? Not jumping on that one quite yet. I'd like to see more from him though. His posts so far seem to be lacking in substance. Which is understandable on p 5 or so, but he's in the spot light now so I want to see what he does.

Nacho seems town to me, although it wouldn't mind if he explained some more of the later reads he gives, (Elyse, Burn and Ice).

Obviously if WP wants to show up again that would be awesome.

I'm not sure how I feel about the rest of you all. I'm not really scum reading anyone at the moment, so I'm happy rolling with my bro's vote for now.
-Rolls

-PEDIT Can't wait for your "bunch of stuff" Salamance.

[Gemini Blind]

*blink blink*

Dry-fit you are aware the dayvig is extraneous to the roles handed out, yes?

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

I should just be as blunt as possible.

From my point of view, you're talking about strategizing in terms of talking about the setup/roles as a scumtell.

The dayvig is a random kill that's out there that is irrelevant to anyone's role.

Discussing the dayvig kill and even outting the dayvig doesn't lead to anyone's role information, but it could lead to alignment information.

This early? Role info is bad. Alignment info is tasty.

Since the dayvig is dangling out there, of course many people would probably jump on that.

As far as "strategy" goes, you mention things like role fishing, role/setup information, etc. All we know get to know is potentially who has the dayvig, and potentially what alignment they are. I'm concerned both with how early you brought up this tactic of looking towards people who strategize and speculate in order to post fluff as well as your definition of strategery since I question whether it applies in this particular situation.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Fair enough but I still think you're suspicious for using a scumtell inappropriately and seeming disingenuous.

pedit: to Dry-fit if it wasn't obvious.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

One of these days I'm going to post out of hydra :/

I'm far from the most eloquent of speakers.

My problem is this:

Dry-fit comes into thread attacking people who talk about the day-vig.

When asked why, he says scum usually talk about setup/role stuff on day 1.

When asked why strategizing is a scum tell, he says scum are most likely to talk about strategy, and hypothesizing that it may be due to rolefishing, or trying to look protown.

Since the dayvig is independant of role, half of his argument as to "I think these people are scummy because of this tell" doesn't even apply.

To me that reads as fake scum hunting. An argument that seems forced to me lands him on a wagon.

At the same time I do acknowledge the whole "this person's only content is related to game mechanics, it could be scum trying to look useful." I'm fine with that, though less so since halfway through day 3 I'm not really sure what else we're suppose to talk about except for this interesting dayvig that has fallen in someone's lap.

I don't really want his head on a platter at the moment (like I wouldn't dayvig him right this instant har har) but I don't think that the twins have a better place to park our vote.

Does that clarify or obfuscate things further?

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Nacho

Do you not think partway down page 3 is a little early to accuse people of being scum for talking about something interesting in the set up? Do you expect people to be actively scumhunting by then?

While I'm not saying he's obvscum and deserves to die, I think some of your pro-townie points given to Dry-fit in 167 are a bit of a stretch. I also think saying I think Dry-fit is scum because he said role stuff and dayvig is not a role is a bit of a strawman but I'll admit I haven't been very clear.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Gemini is looking good too, based on the fact that I feel like STD would love to hop on my wagon based on my personality.

I'm kind of curious about this.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

@STD: We're not going into this again. Either you're being ignorant or you forgot who I am (a person someone like you would love to policy).

His response was legitimate, and your refusal to explain why you feel like STD would wagon you based on personality is anti-town. I know you're leaning town on him but I am not unvoting you until you give him a proper response. Why is it townie for STD to wagon you?

Based on *something* he thinks I'm dangerous VI out to ruin games.

So why wouldn't he wagon me if he had the chance (like he does now)?

I'm trying to choose my words carefully because this relates to an ongoing game but I feel I'm being misunderstood.

The truth is I don't think that, Salamence. We can talk about it more after that game if you like but I tend to treat people based on the play of the game they are currently in only, hence my posts only refer to that game. If I was rude to you I do apologize, I get a little heated in mafia games. Believe me or don't for now but I suppose we should table this before we get in trouble.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Is ToastyToast an Aires?

I liked 170 personally, though I'm usually wary of anyone who's reads entirely consist of "look at my wagon."

Something about Nachomamma and StrangerCoug rub me the wrong way but I've learned not to trust my gut (or rather, do whatever the opposite of what my gut is telling me).

You may wait for Elyse to respond I guess.

Gracious of you.

There are some players who tend to be more abrasive as town, whether it's because they feel more righteous or less nervous or whatever as town, but it bleeds out early and often. This is one of the examples of tone I look for in players like that and I'm pretty confident Dry is one of them.

Have I suddenly lost the ability to communicate?

I also really, really liked this because I felt (feel?) I have a pretty good grasp on his argument whereas other people seemed to miss little points here and there, and it felt like this was a natural buildup of frustration that never got converted into an opportunity for scum (aka you're misrepping me!), and more "I'm talking a foreign language, no one understands me" type of feeling which feels like townie frustration because the frustration is formed from lack of frustration as opposed to accumulation of pressure.

Those two quotes in particular really bother me and I'm not sure why you'd go out of your way to defend him (other than the assumption that you're confident he's town).

I am of the opinion that right now that there is likely at least and probably only one scum on Salamence's wagon.

Personally I'd love a read list from Salamence atm.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Town:

Nacho/SC: I already explained these reads.
Gemini: I feel like STD would be handling my wagon differently if he was scum.

Null:

Juls: If this was a micro, I would be sheeping her by now, but this is obviously not the case. She fakes a dayvig, not quite sure of the test she was trying to perform. Other than vigspec, hasn't been much out of her. Is the fake dayvig more townish or scummish in this game. (Leans town)

Iec: there may be a connection between him and Juls. I'm not sure. Against setup spec as well. Want to hear more from him now that I'm here and playing (null)

Burn: This "I'm voting people for setup spec" of his seems off compared to SC/Nacho. Says that I'm scum for dayvig spec and Juls scum because of her plan being complicated. Definitely want to hear more from him. (Null)

Witness/Toasty: Yeah... What was that wagon on him about other than Nacho showing he makes town his bitch. (null)

Elyse: what bugs me the most about her is that she is serious(?) voting Xay, but doesn't have any scumreads. So is Xay a nullread worth pressuring or what? Possible sitting around, but not enough has been said on her end to make me believe anything yet. (Leans scum)

Dry-Fit: I don't like him. His subtle "I am a dayblocker" joke was unnecessary regardless of the joke. Scumreads my townreads, and states strategy is a scumtell, where (IMO) I've seen it as town more than scum. (Leans scum)

Scum:

PV/Xay: Best case of scum on my wagon for reasons already stated.

@ Salamance
Having just caught up, I've been kinda busy for the last few days, I want to ask Salamance if they think Elyse is distancing herself from Xay since you think Xay is scum, Elyse is leaning scum, Elyse is voting Xay despite not having any scum reads?
Does their more recent interactions affect your opinions on either of them?

@ Elyse

What exactly are you agreeing with and finding town with in 207?

-Rolls

[Gemini Blind]

VOTE: PeregrineV

@SC

I have reads - just not scumreads

. But now I'm voting PerV.

@Rolls
Salamence's sentiments toward Xay are similar to how I feel about him. He explained it pretty well himself. I also agree that PerV's vote was weak and I am also

scumreading him

.

Do you not have scum reads or are you scum reading PV?

@ PV Why the vote on ToastyToast?

-Rolls

[Gemini Blind]

Eeew the quote tags got messed up that top part is Elyse's quote, my bad, and that first Q is addressed to Elyse. Sorry I tried to cut out some of Elyse's quote and I messed it up.

-Rolls

PEDIT Okay.

[Gemini Blind]

I'm always ready for fun, fun, fun.

Elyse looks town to me, though I haven't been paying this game much attention.

Unvote

(go ahead and vote if you like, Jelly). I want to read the thread again. Personally I don't really find Salamence suspicious, nor do I have any strong scum reads atm.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

I wrote out a vitriolic post but I have decided to instead post this adorable image someone showed me on skype.

Spoiler:

It's adorable and calming me down (my school just started today so I'm tired, forgive me if I get more angry than I should).

Attempt 2:

gross. You should never let dayvigs get controlled by majority rules. Or any vigs for that matter. Because even if scum isn't influencing it, incorrect town can.

Good thing our dayvig can't be scum nor incorrect town. OH WAIT.

ToastyToast, you've completely misreped me, I have a slew of posts where I give a shit about the dayvig. That post is one where I give a shit about the day vig. I say that if the mafia has it, I want that vig outted. If town has it, great. They can use it however they please, but as long as it's an unknown, I'm going to try to make it known. But thanks for ignoring everything else I said and not reading what you quoted correctly.

The dayvig is not confirmed town. So people should stop acting like we know town has the dayvig. We don't know that for certain. Letting the dayvig do what the dayvig wants to do is likely in our best interest, but that's a dangerous risk we're taking.

When mafia win because they drew an extra kill, don't come crying to me.

When towniemctownerson's "better judgement" kills a PR that we could have at least got a claim from, don't come crying to me.

If the dayvig's shot in the dark happens to kill a scum, hooray! If they nail a townie, well boo, but at least it's not a PR.

So read again, I've been fucking polarized on the dayvig situation.

Re-read soon.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Still alive? Good.

I'm tooting my own horn here, but it'd be pretty dangerous for scum to
1) not have the dayvig
2) not know where the dayvig is
3) try to out the dayvig

Food for thought.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Do you not think partway down page 3 is a little early to accuse people of being scum for talking about something interesting in the set up? Do you expect people to be actively scumhunting by then?

Hey do you know this thing called pressure votes? Should people be actively scumhunting by the middle of page 4, which is where you hunted burn? Seriously its not like anyone throws a vote down in the first 4 pages and is like OMG GUSY THIS PERSON IS SCUM 100%. Which, by the way, is the same thing people did with my Xayzek vote.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you don't seem to understand anything I'm posting.

Don't know what the fuck was up with the dayvigging of us but ToastyToast looks a little better after a good night's sleep.

Good thing our dayvig can't be scum nor incorrect town. OH WAIT.

I trust myself more than 12 people with differing opinions. I'm sure you do too. More people does not mean more accurate.

Dude, this point refers to the fact that scum might have the dayvig. How the hell is getting the town involved not helpful if scum is forced to use it for the town?

Your argument is that if everyone is given control over the dayvig, it could come to a bad end. I'm saying that there's no guarentee that it's not already in scum's hands or the hands of someone who's going to use it foolishly.

[Gemini Blind]

Toasty's posts are annoying but I'm not convinced he's scum.

After reading:

Unlikely to vote: Elyse, Icerint, Salamence, Xayzeck, Juls, Nacho, Dry-fit
Willing to vote: burn, Peregrine, StrangerCoug, ToastyToast

Of the four I listed:
burn needs to post again.
Peregrine I have no read on.
StrangerCoug is mostly gut
ToastyToast I think I'm just emotionally reacting to, not sure yet if his play is anti-town.

VOTE: PeregrineV

pedit: Since we don't know the syntax for the kill
KILL: X
vs.
DAYVIG: X
vs.
VIG: X
etc.

neither of the two "attempts" at dayvigging prevent their posters from being the dayvig.

[Gemini Blind]

Post 289 and 292 were by me, forgot to sign.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Pretty sure you can't make the dayvig dayvig someone.

...

What in that post implies that I think this is possible?

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

You are pointing out that the syntax of the dayvig is relevant.

If I were the dayvig, and and didn't want to dayvig someone, I would simply PM the mod to tell them not to count it.

Wait, seriously? Wouldn't that be the same thing as me voting someone and asking the mod not to count it?

[Gemini Blind]

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Not sure if we played before, but I intentionally annoy people to get reactions. I don't think this is antitown.

No but misrepping me and blatantly twisting words doesn't make me think you're trying to annoy me; it showcases a pattern of poor behavior and it makes me think that I shouldn't take anything you say seriously.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Why? Same reasons as 279? Has your view on ToastyToast changed at all since then or is the sentiment still the same?

My bro beat me to a PV vote... Well great minds think alike. Or maybe just twins.

@ PV Dry-fit wasn't voting ToastyToast so I don't understand your explanation in 318

[Gemini Blind]

-JR

[Gemini Blind]

@ PV IIRC he objected to the nakedness and lack of explanation of the vote on ToastyToast (at the time), in which case I don't see how Dry-Fit's read on ToastyToast is relevant.


Hi Aronis! Welcome to the game!

-Rolls

[Gemini Blind]

CTD! Are you a Virgo?

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Iecerint (I'll try to spell your name correctly from here on out) was a townread for me mostly for 41 (if I remember correctly).

Not sure what in his ISO makes it the worst, the latter posts lack the meat found in the earlier ones, but I think that's true across the board. In fact I don't really seen anything specific, just a general "I hate his ISO" from Nachomamma.

Aronis jumping on PeregrineV and then jumping off to wait for CTD to post doesn't make me particularly happy.

I'm not attached to our PeregrineV vote so I suppose VOTE: Aronis

I don't really know why this game is hard to get movement; I can't really blame anyone for feeling that way because I feel it too.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

@ Aronis are you less confident in your reads than your initial reads from before? (like have things changed) If so what has changed your mind on them?
Particularly PV since you've unvoted him. Is there a reason you find him less scummy than before? (If that's the case)

[Gemini Blind]

-Rolls

[Gemini Blind]

UNVOTE:
I actually agree that Aronis isn't a great place for a vote right now. Unfortunately I haven't had time to discuss this game with my bro in a while. So I'm taking the wheel right now!

I don't like Salamance's ISO. It doesn't look to me like (it?)'s doing a lot of scum hunting, more only trying to defend (it?)self.
I could get behind a Salamance lynch but right now voting that way doesn't seem quite so useful since there's still time in the day and Salamance is on V/LA pretty much until deadline IIRC.

Arg after sifting through some ISOs and trying to figure things out I'm now more confused.

VOTE: Salamance
-JR

[Gemini Blind]

Cool, CTD seems town so far. I would love to see what you you think beyond skimming the thread too.

But he hasn't answered the all important question:

CTD! Are you a Virgo?

~STD

-Jelly

[Gemini Blind]

I'm kind of half paying attention to this game (I suppose it helps to have a buddy).

It doesn't help when your other head votes for a townread. Grumble grumble. I'm not super confident on that townread, but here's what I think:

Salamence plays extremely brash, so his "I'm the paragon that got us out of the RVS" and "I understand the votes = I support his lynch" are both paraphrased statements I disagree with but they aren't really pinging my scumdar.

On that note:

Dry-fit (or really any pro-Salamence):

Really I don't know why Sal isn't the lead wagon at this point. Nothing he's done looks townie and he's done several scummy things.

Forgive my laziness, but are they enumerated anywhere?

And...if there's no better targets, Jelly has my blessing to put this back, hell I'd probably do it if we get close enough to the deadline, but for now...

VOTE: Unvote

----

Nacho:

Aronis jumping on PeregrineV and then jumping off to wait for CTD to post doesn't make me particularly happy.

Why not?

Why bother unvoting or voting in the first place? If PeregrineV is one of your only scum reads it seems weird to vote for a few seconds and walk away.

I also said not happy, I didn't say it screamed scum.

You're also the loudest player (not that it's bad or anything, it's just a fact) so even you getting on your soapbox denouncing the PerigrineV wagon could be more influential than you give it credit for.

As far as 41 I think it's the thought process, declaring someone as town, rationalizing the dayvig, making a comment and then changing his mind. As the game progresses I do see less and less of this from Iecerint.

I think the conclusion he draws about Juls is wrong but I don't think it's a particularly poor train of thought.

I think 411 has a lot of speculation, which is fine, but I don't reach the same conclusions you do.

Do you typically railroad people?

----

CTD:
Personally I'm with you on Juls. Nothing screams that she's town, she doesn't have a lot of posts to her name. While I'm not convinced the slot is scum, I could certainly see it.

confirm vote

Not sure this is helpful. You're deadset on Aronis?

also, re: burn

Juls plan is just too chaotic, rushed, and hectic for my liking. Literally nothing about it is pro-town. So trying to control the vig shot, which we just said scum would want to do, and her anti-town resolution to her scenario makes me

VOTE: Juls

inb4OMGUS

I balked at burn since the way I had originally read his post when I voted him made him look a lot worse. This vote gives me pause. The thought process just seems forced. The wording on the first sentence seems off and regardless of my opinion on Juls, I'm assuming the plan was progress motivated and opinion driven; I can't see scum coming into this thinking "oh! dayvig! let's see if we can control it!"

----

Re: Elyse

I think Elyse is town because I'm having a hard time developing scumreads too. Some games are a little easier to pin people. There's been a lot of discourse on dayvig theory that although heated I'm not sure at this point is entirely alignment relevant. I feel scum are typically eager. I'm not saying scum could go out there and openly profess no reads, but my gut says town.

----

I'll try to follow up with a vote tomorrow. Gah. I hate not voting for anyone.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

@Mod: I'm not certain but from the looks of your vote count it appears you have StrangerCoug voting twice... It looks like they unvoted Elyse in 428

-Jelly

[Gemini Blind]

My comp just crashed in the middle of a big post so these next few are coming piece by piece.

Why the hell is everyone saying they think I'm scum while not voting for me? It's super awkward.

If I had a top 10 list of pet peeves from mafia players, this would be on it.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

@Gemini: What is your read on nacho currently?

Nacho seems to be kicking up dust and hiding behind it. I don't really have time to go into tremendous detail, and I don't think I can come up with a convincing argument to break people's townreads of nacho. I think it is entirely possible that nacho is scum (but even I'm not convinced of that at this point).

I think the case on Iecerint was pretty poor and I think nacho was trying to generate hype for a lynch in a game where a lull had occured. Nacho could be scum hiding in plain sight.

I don't know how Jelly feels about Nacho. I'd probably place my vote on nacho, look for more evidence, and decide if I like it there for now...if the deadline weren't 2 days away.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Ice is the only other scumread I can remember, I don't recall being fond of the Sala wagon really, even though that seems to be a pretty big thing.

Do you ever say why? (and if not, why?)

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

1. The setup discussion stuff. Of course many people disagree with this but I believe focusing primarily on setup stuff at the start in the game is more likely to come from scum. If you look at Sal's early posts that's almost all there was.
2. His next series of posts is almost all defending himself. He has a couple lines about not liking the way PV and Xay got on his wagon but that's really it for scumhunting.
3. He calls himself pro-town for helping end RVS, but I don't really see that from him. Yes his actions led to suspicion on him which moved the game forward but in general setup spec doesn't get the game moving. in fact he hasn't made advancing the game a priority at all either in RVS or afterward.
4. Eagerness to jump on PV for vote hopping:

PV is votehopping.

Squirm baby squirm

This was at a time when PV was an emerging counterwagon to Sal. This looks like opportunism to me.
5. I challenge anyone to point to a single post of Salamence's that makes him look town. I can point to town-looking posts from pretty much every other player but not for him.

1 and 2 aren't really scum tells for me.

3 is just kind of silly on his part. It seems more likely a thing that the town would latch onto and call suspicious...a false scumtell if you will.

4 is legit, though on its own it proves little.

5

Spoiler:

I would say some of his early speculation posts, though I suppose you disagree, is in an effort to help the town, not control the dayvig.

I also think 170 seems pretty genuine. I think the reads are fair.

5 is pretty subjective though, so it is what it is.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

I don't plan or particularly want to vote Salamence. I'll let Jelly vote Salamence if he wants, though.

I'd rather lynch Xayzeck, PeregrineV, Nacho, and maybe, just maybe CTD or Aronis at this point. Still thinking about exactly where to put my vote though. I almost voted PeregrineV then talked myself out of it. Arg I need to get back to work. I'll vote later tonight maybe, or Jelly can.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Whoa, totally didn't even notice my bro's most recent posts.

I'm not entirely fond of a Salamance lynch myself but if there aren't any other good options I'd rather go for a lynch then a no lynch.

Icerint for some reason seems scummy but I can't figure out exactly why.

I'm not really liking CTD anymore. I thought their entry looked town enough but I was expecting, well hoping for something more from them.

Xay and Elyse probably have scum in one of those slots.

Do you ever say why? (and if not, why?)

I've said why I scumread Elyse, haven't I?

I also said I've ended up putting most of my efforts on to Elyse, so I haven't been paying attention to other slots. I recall scumreading Ice, I don't recall why. I'm willing to guess that it's because most of the playerlist though he was scum, and not something I discovered purely on my own. Like the reads of others influenced my read on him, almost.

For Sala, the wagon built up on his dayvig talk, which I thought was kinda dumb, and the wagon's been up ever since, but I'm not sure if he's done anything scummy since the dayvig talk, which I honestly don't think was worth a wagon. What I do have a problem with, and that I can remember, is how he bragged about getting out of RVS, but I see that more likely coming from town that scum almost.

Why didn't I say all of this before? Because most of this is outdated lol

I don't like the last line here. How is it outdated? It's day 1. As far as I'm concerned your opinion is still relevant, and could still be important. Especially if it's about the comments in opposition to the Salamance wagon. Saying something about it earlier might have helped derail the wagon if you were so opposed to it.

To be honest I'm not sure how helpful the Elyse vs. Xay thing really is. Elyse seems to still be engaging others while Xay even admits to focusing mostly on Elyse.

At this point I'd like to actually hear something from Salamance if he's back. The sooner the better. Same with CTD.

VOTE: CTD

I'll probably be willing to switch over to a Salamance vote at some point if there are no better ways to prevent a no lynch. I don't think Sal's been the most helpful person when they've been posting so I'm not completely opposed to putting my vote there.

The same could be said of CTD about not being the most helpful either.

-JR

[Gemini Blind]

Our heads disagreed on our reads on you, CTD. I, Jelly, thought your first post

seemed

townie but baring anything else helpful to town, that initial read didn't carry as much weight. I'm glad you've come back to say something. Aronis is someone I'm looking at too.

The quote of ours and your question is something I can't quite answer for since it's STD's stance. I think we did have a vote on Aronis at one point but I moved it off.

After taking a look, I'll agree he's probably been just about as helpful as you, if that.

I understand that people are busy and can lack the time and energy to post. (Just ask STD, he's been super busy) but the judgement is on how helpful the posts you have given so far, coupled with those of your predecessor. Neither of you have done too much to help town in my opinion.

What are your thoughts on Xay and Elyse?

[Gemini Blind]

-JR

[Gemini Blind]

I find the lack of substance in your posts scummy, not your lack of posting CTD.

Also Dry-Fit, I am well aware of the game state and believe I did indicate I was willing to lynch Salamance if it came to that.

Of course sala made his potential dayvig shot, so we'll see where that takes us.

-JR

[Gemini Blind]

VOTE: Xayzeck

Your Salemence alternative™

Probably the most likely to receive heat enough to be a viable alternative cross referenced with a player I might want to lynch.
(there's no way this is happening but I'm going to try anyway.)

Here's what I think.
PeregrineV: unknown
Salamence20: town
Xayzeck: maybe scum. Not a fan of his interactions with Elyse. Both of them kind of have a one track mind, but I don't know, Elyse just feels more genuine.
Aronis: unknown. Not a fan, would lynch.
ToastyToast: town
StrangerCoug: gave me scum vibes early on, now null.
Gemini Blind: two awesome two lynch/nightkill (GET IT?!?!? HAHAHA moving on).
Dry-fit: seems town now especially recently.
CrashTextDummie: don't like burn, need more from CTD
Nachomamma8: kicks up dust, doesn't give a lot of info. An early read list isn't too helpful.
Elyse: seems town
Iecerint: null. would probably lynch, his content has dropped considerably.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

VOTE: Salamence

I protest but there's like 5 hours left and I guess it really is Salamence or nothing. That's a really bad situation to be in. If nothing else I guess we will get some info.

I hope Dryfit planned on doing something after his unvote and not end the day not voting.

There's no way to tell if the syntax is correct anyway so having someone say Kill: XXX doesn't prove anything. I would not be surprised if scum has the dayvig and we kind of let them have free reign of it. I know it's pessimistic and I know I'm annoying about this but I can't shake that feeling. The worse case scenario is devastating: scum get a free kill. Trade for a power role, make LYLO come one day early without warning, that's all I'm thinking about. There's little to be lost just knowing who has the dayvig. Maybe town has it but if they get nightkilled tonight, well that sucks for us. I don't plan on talking about this D2; I think it was too distracting to spend so much time wondering about the dayvig.

I apologize for my role in the apathy in this game; I know I have hardly been present even when I've been posting. If Salamence is town, which I think is true, we made it pretty easy for scum today. There were too many distractions. Good luck tomorrow. (and if I'm wrong and Salamence is scum then fuck me, I dunno what I'm talking about (except Dry-fit's unvote becomes suspect. Also nacho could be scum trying to drum up a wagon on Iecerint to protect his buddy until he couldn't do so anymore.).)

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Terrible why? Elyse was arguably the town's second suspect after Sal. So if he wanted to use the shot as a second lynch Elyse was a good choice.

I don't think that is true. The shot is terrible in my opinion, I was reading Elyse as town personally and I know I'm not alone.

That said I'm not particularly happy with Aronis's vote and post offerings.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

VOTE: Aronis

gotta get off salamence now, catch up in a bit.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Oh lol we all unvoted.

anyway...

Yeah let's kill Aronis or Xayzeck today please.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

why are people voting Aronis?

No useful content. Juls also doesn't have much content. Sort of hammered salamence. Salamence is likely town, worth at least keeping around if cop to verify.

I'd be willing to switch to Xayzeck personally; I will not vote Salemence today. I will reassess tomorrow.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

why are people voting Aronis?

No useful content.

Juls also doesn't have much content. Sort of hammered salamence. Salamence is likely town, worth at least keeping around if cop to verify.

I'd be willing to switch to Xayzeck personally; I will not vote Salemence today. I will reassess tomorrow.

~STD

I did not hammer Salamence. OK? Like get your fucking facts straight.

what is this I don't even

Also bold for irony. All I remember from your slot is a lot of neutral early day stuff from Juls before petering off and a readlist upon your entry.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

So we got a second chance to lynch someone who wasn't Salamance... and we've decided to go back to Salamance... Who might be cop. Personally I think Aronis has been less than useful to town, and more likely to be scum. Then again it would be nice if Salamance showed up again. I don't know. I think it's more likely he's a frustrated townie. I don't know what my brother thinks because everyone's jump on the wagon probably occurred since the last time he's seen this thread. I'm keeping our vote on Aronis right now, and I'll talk to my brother before the deadline about what he thinks.

-JR

[Gemini Blind]

I'm a big fan of not lynching the claimed cop D1. Going to laugh when he's telling the truth and you kill him anyway. Willing to bite my tongue if he's not. Don't think it's necessary today, personally.

His choice of kill was questionable, his lack of presence is upsetting. Other than that, I'm not seeing much to suggest he's scum.

I have no idea what bb is supposed to mean.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

I'd rather he come in and explain it, but

Who has my dayvig?

About dayvig speculation: I love the dayvig, it's my favorite role in all of mafia.

He's clearly trying to hide the fact he has the dayvig. If he has the dayvig, it doesn't really matter what he says. I'm not sure how "waiting for guilty to shoot with bravado" expels the notion that he can't pretend he doesn't have it to do exactly what he claimed he was going to do with it. Did I miss something else?

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Nice scumclaim bb.

Also seriously this better not refer to us.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

In addition, why did he shoot Elyse? The two people he was pushing hardest for the few moments he was around were: Xayzeck and PV. Do I think he'd give up the chance to take out a top suspect over Elyse who I'm pretty sure he never mentioned at all? No.

This is a good point though.

Admittedly he probably should have said why he killed Elyse when he claimed.

I don't know. I don't want to touch him right now; I think there's too much of a chance he could be town.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

I don't know. It just seems too obvious to me. We'll see.

Also I'm not sure about the shot being poorly timed.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

It indeed referred to you.

That's what I thought.

You're an idiot.

If Salamence is my buddy, he's been a sinking ship all game and there's no fucking way I'm hitching my wagon to that.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Salamence loves dayvig.

Claimed cop dies night 1 potentially.

Salamence doesn't get to use dayvig if he dies.

Salamence does last minute shot to use the dayvig before he dies.

That's not possible?

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

genuine = town?
non genuine = scum?

Not sure I've got much faith in tells like this.

Scum lie, town tells the truth.

Thus when town says things, it's more genuine, while scum have to fake reads. I'm trying to sift through the people who are actually hunting and the people who are just pretending to do so.

~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Sorry about your hydra buddy, then.

You mean my twin brother? Don't even. 573 is pretty much how I feel too, tell me what about it is suspicious and stop flitting around like an annoying insect.

(I'm having a rough day so far, please forgive if I'm overly hostile)
~STD

[Gemini Blind]

Then you're assuming that people always sound genuine when telling the truth, and fail to do so when lying, which isn't at all true.

No, I'm not assuming that every genuine sounding thing come from town, I'm saying that comparatively your side sounded more like hounding than Elyse's side. I think picking one player and tunnelling is a possible indicator of pretending to hunt, but I don't know for certain.

To me, your attacks on Elyse rung a bit hollow. That's all I'm saying. I never said you're 100% confscum for being disingenuous, I'm saying you're probably a better lynch because I think you're more likely to be scum than Salamence.

Nacho is my strongest scum read. Was Nacho even remotely getting lynched today? No. Do I have time to do more than just reactionary posts so I can actually build cases? Unfortunately, no. Who's likely to be scum that was possibly getting lynched? Aronis and you.

Also I'm not voting you.

I should just shut up until we see Salamence's alignment revealed.

~STD