Mini 1604 -- Zodiac Mafia (Game Over)

[Elyse]

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Because.

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xayzeck

wagonwagonwagon

[Elyse]

I thought his reaction was OTT and weird.

[Elyse]

No his reaction was not alignment indicative but he seems like he will be easier to read with more pressure on him.

[Elyse]

It's also something easy to talk about and make it look like you're doing stuff - when really, you're not giving any opinions on players' alignments and such.

[Elyse]

@MOD:
Is the day kill made publicly in the thread?

@Xay
Are you being facetious?

[Elyse]

Oh ok yeah I agree.

I thought you were saying that I was discussing theory in an attempt to do what I was saying scum typically do.

[Elyse]

I could be reading this wrong.

Juls, are you saying that once someone is at L-1, everyone must choose a player (it can be anyone) to kill, and we flush out the vig that way? Or are you saying that we get someone to L-1, and everyone says kill: player at L-1 to flush it out?

[Elyse]

Ok then yeah I think that's good.

[Elyse]

To be quite honest, I'm kinda at a loss for words right now. I don't know what to say :/ I think Nacho and Juls are town but I'm not really scumreading anyone at the moment.

[Elyse]

Nacho I think you're wrong about Elyse. Coming right out and saying you have no scumreads is most likely town

I don't get your reasoning for this. The could maybe see you calling it town because it's something that's too risky for scum to say, but taking the position on page 6 doesn't seem that risky and thus not that town, and it prevents her from having to take positions on who to lynch because she doesn't have that opinion. I also didn't really like how she called me town and yet didn't engage my scumread on Salamence (aka pick out flaws in it) to see where I was coming from which shows me she not only lacks a scumread, but lacks interest in developing a scumread as well.

It's not that I'm not interested in developing a scumread. Salamence has said he'll be away for a few days so I don't think it's scummy that he's been elsewhere on site or barely present.

As far as only talking about theory, yeah I guess that's true, but it's early in the game and it's not like Salamence purposely avoided talking about current events in the topic and used theory as a crutch to avoid taking stances. Id like to see him come back and hear what he has to say. I certainly understand the votes on him, though.

[Elyse]

Salamence, are you saying that by being scummy and only talking about theory, you got a wagon on you to get us out of RVS - thus making your actions protown?

[Elyse]

By that logic, do you think it's "fair" that people attack you using stuff that got us out of RVS?

[Elyse]

I never said it wasn't fair. I just think that 1. It was faster than normal and 2. I think some scum are on my wagon and is not completely town.

I know that's why I asked.

[Elyse]

My vote on Xay was (is?) purely pressure and I'm kinda getting a town vibe. He's hyper defensive and I think it's just how he is. But my vote is still on there because I haven't found a new home for it yet.

[Elyse]

No I can tell from your posts.

[Elyse]

I don't have a problem with it...see this is exactly what I'm talking about. You are hyper defensive, but I think it's just your personality and playstyle, not alignment indicative.

My vote is still on you because I don't really have a scumread. (I know it's bad, but not much is happening) I was thinking Sala, maybe, but his 207 read as town and I kind of agree with it. PV could be scum.

[Elyse]

Where is this hyper defensiveness you're seeing? If it wasn't playstyle would it be scum indicative?

What do you dislike about PV or Sala?

It's in all of your posts. It might be indicative of newbscum if not a playstyle.

I do agree that Sala's early posts seemed noncommittal and only theory-based, but I don't think his recent content has been bad and he seems alright now.

PerV's ISO has a large chunk about just horoscopes and I feel like his Salamence vote is meh, though he's pretty open about just sheeping his townread Nacho. He's a player I usually get a gut feeling about and my gut says scum.

I guess I'll start there.

VOTE: PeregrineV

@SC
I have reads - just not scumreads. But now I'm voting PerV.

@Rolls
Salamence's sentiments toward Xay are similar to how I feel about him. He explained it pretty well himself. I also agree that PerV's vote was weak and I am also scumreading him.

What Elsye did is she started out with a (i think sort of)scumread on me, which was bad enough as it is because she never explained how it was scum indicative, and then dismissed it herself through metatells(maybe because of Nacho), yet keeps her vote on me(maybe because of Sala).

I voted you because you seemed easily excitable and would react under pressure. I thought I would be able to discern your alignment through pressuring you, but it seems as though your hyper defensiveness is just playstyle and not alignment indicative. I came to this conclusion because you are being defensive about everything - even things that aren't alignment indicative. I kept my vote on you because I didn't really have anyone else to move it to, and it's not like I'm townreading you or anything.

@Rolls: Like I said, it's possible Elyse is just sitting around waiting for something to happen, but then why isn't she voting me. She has stated she would be fine with my lynch, but why hasn't she voted me. It could be a reach for townie points.

When did I say that?

[Elyse]

I still don't see where I said I would be ok with your lynch.

[Elyse]

I honestly don't understand how you would think I'm ok with your lynch based on the bolded. I said that the main reason people were scumreading you wasn't that strong and I wanted to hear what you said when you came back. In what way does that make it seem like I would be good with your lynch?

[Elyse]

I did disagree with it though. I said I understand the votes, but I think your scumminess was being overhyped.

I'm not scumreading you...

[Elyse]

I was referencing earlier.

I am currently scumreading PV but when SC made that statement I wasn't.

[Elyse]

Why is it so bad?

Your scumread on me is because I don't have scumreads - and your only other scumread is Sala.

So basically, from your PoV, my only scumread should have been Sala. And since I gave reasons as to why I'm not scumreading him, there's not really a difference between us. It's just that you scumread Sala and I don't, and you scumread me for not scumreading anyone else.

[Elyse]

I'm not saying I should sheep you.

What I'm saying is that you expecting me to have scumreads when you had one before me is wrong.

[Elyse]

I'm not explaining this in the right way.

You have two scumreads - Sala and me.

Your scumread on me is because I didn't have scumreads, so at that time (when I said I didn't have scumreads), your only scumread was Sala.

And I said I don't think Sala is scum.

So who was my scumread(s) supposed to be? I literally wasn't scumreading anyone, and you can't fault me for that because you weren't either - except for Sala who I specifically said I didn't find scummy. I wasn't going to make stuff up just to appease people.

And when rolls or Xay made me reflect on why I agreed with Sala's 207, it made me realize that PV was vote worthy.

[Elyse]

How am I misrepping you?

Whatever

[Elyse]

@ToastyToast
I think the major reason the vig should be used today is that if scum get it, they can hold onto it for LyLo and claim that whoever was lynched/NK'd has it. Using it today eliminates that possibility.

@Nacho
You had Iecerint and PV as leaning town early on. What changed?

I'm pretty happy with toasty's catchup and salamence's catchup, which means intial reads weren't good.
Meanwhile...

Vote: PeregrineV

Am I the only one who feels this Pere vote just came out of nowhere?

Instead of asking that, why don't you ask Nacho why he voted Pere? Questions like this are scummy because it's almost as if you're making sure someone else will agree with you before you begin questioning Nacho.

Toasty wagon anyone?

We should also stop fakevigging because of obvious reasons

Why a Toasty wagon? And like Xay did, it seems you're testing the waters.

burn needs to post again.
Peregrine I have no read on.
StrangerCoug is mostly gut

VOTE: PeregrineV

Why the PV vote out of these? I could see a SC vote because you actually have a read on him, or the burn vote to get him to post. The PV vote doesn't make much sense.

@SC
I don't really want to continue the discussion further. I don't know how to explain what I'm trying to say to you.

@Toasty

- I'm actually currently voting Dry-Fit (mostly for his objection to my vote on you, a null read of his).

...
That's exactly what Toasty is doing with Sala's vote on you.

Still happy with my PV vote.

[Elyse]

I'm voting you for more than gut. I haven't liked any of your posts, really.

I didn't say that Xay's question was loaded...and what does that have to do with me asking Nacho about his vote?

Yes, I am questioning Gemini for voting a nullread. You literally said two posts ago you would expect that from someone.

My point is that you are attacking dry-fit for not liking your vote on ToastyToast (a nullread of his).
Meanwhile, ToastyToast doesn't like Sala's vote on you (a nullread of his), and you don't attack him.

[Elyse]

Then we can at least anticipate scum having it.

[Elyse]

Why do you have such a problem with people townreading me?

[Elyse]

what do you think

[Elyse]

Why do you have such a problem with people townreading me?

How do you deduce that Xayzeck has a problem with people townreading you? He responded to this with a reasonable question and you blew him off.

Since the beginning he's been gunning for me since I put pressure on him in RVS. It's in his tone. He's always questioning people's reads on me.

I responded sarcastically because it was a dumb question. Obviously I am serious.

[Elyse]

I am willing to compromise on Iecerint, I suppose.

Nacho, I do agree that PerV's scum meta is to lay low, but I don't really think he's put himself out there as much as you say he is.

[Elyse]

Why didn't you just say that the first time? I genuinely wondered if you thought I was kidding.

It's not like I asked some asinine question...and is your read on me strong enough to compare me to garbage music? Like I don't understand the vitriol with which you are acting toward me and your scumread on me. It just seems over the top when your case boils down to...actually I don't know. Your vote was out of the blue.

Why are you voting me?

[Elyse]

Further discussion about the dayvig will probably provide unnecessary information about the identity of the dayvig, so there is no reason for it to continue.

I don't like this post by Iecerint.

First, this is a poor reason to stop discussion about the dayvig. His or her identity will come out by the end of the day (we've agreed on that, yes?), so what's the big deal if he's found out now? I mean I agree it'd be better to keep him hidden to avoid buddying or something, but it's not a real reason to stop discussion about it.

If he said, "we've already decided what to do" or "talking about the dayvig allows scum to hide behind theory talk", then that would be acceptable. But this reason seems inconsistent, considering Iecerint himself continued to talk about the dayvig after this.

@Xay
I already explained everything you're scumreading me for and I don't know how to explain it another way.

@Iec
What's your read on Nacho?

@SC
What's your read on Iec?

[Elyse]

My bad. I got the un fos mixed up with the other fos.

I never use fos.

[Elyse]

Sorry I've been busy and will post content hopefully tonight.

LOL at Xay correcting a vote on me in the VC though.

[Elyse]

@Nacho
I am voting Peregrine because

- he did not have much content at all early on, and did not even engage in setup spec - instead he talked about horoscopes

OK, Nacho, you can might be town. For now.

unless there are cults, my towniness is here to stay
additionally, you aren't voting salamence with us

Meh. Just for you. For now.

Vote: Salamaence20

- the "for now"s in both of these posts make his reads less concrete and easier to change later if necessary.
- he says setup spec is protown but doesn't engage in it
- has several naked votes (ToastyToast, dryfit, me) - the votes seem to have reasoning he provides later on, but the timing is always wacky and it's almost as if he's strategically placing his votes to have no impact
- his reasons for his votes are pretty bad (voting toasty because he didn't post, voting dry fit for "objecting" to his vote on a null read, voting me because ??? after SC hopped off my wagon)

I think Iec's post was scum-motivated because he only said it to look good - he didn't follow his own rule of stopping discussion about it.

As far as the Sala wagon goes - I don't love it, but deadline is in two days and Sala has apparently siteflaked (?) I think so either we wait for the mod to get a replacement and potentially lynch him right away (not cool), or we lynch him without a claim.

Or we lynch PV

[Elyse]

Xayzeck what are your views on the players in this game besides Elyse? Who would you want lynched if she's off the table?

lol I've been focusing most of my efforts on this Elyse thing that I've paid less attention to the other slots.

Ice is the only other scumread I can remember, I don't recall being fond of the Sala wagon really, even though that seems to be a pretty big thing.

This is a problem.

@PV
Ok? Your responses don't make me question my read at all.

@Toasty
I don't see how I'm saying "I'm feeling attacked and just want to be here to have fun." Xayzeck isn't attacking me on a personal level - I just found his tunnel on me strange because it's so focused and intense (so much that he doesn't remember his reads on anyone else???) when there's almost nothing to back it up.

[Elyse]

This is a problem.

Why?

How is focusing on one player

not

a problem?

If you are scum, you avoid taking strong stances on other players which lets you hop on a wagon at will and defend your scumbuddies.

If you are town, you are wasting time tunneling on a townie and not looking for scum. Even if I was scum, you would be wasting time not looking for my buddies.

Also

V/LA until Monday

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Salamence

[Elyse]

Also what the fuck are we doing with the dayvig???

[Elyse]

Well I'm town.

If I die scumreads are PV, Iec, Xay, Sala in that order.

[Elyse]

There's less than a day until deadline and your wagon is the biggest.

Did you even read the game before you made that shot?

[Elyse]

THERE ARE SEVENTEEN HOURS UNTIL DEADLINE AND NO OTHER VIABLE WAGONS. WOULD YOU RATHER A NO LYNCH? I'm voting one of the wagons with two votes and the other is me. Where should I vote? Please tell me.

VC has been fixed. Still looking for a Sal replacement; deadline will be suspended if necessary.

Pisces' Daily Horoscope:

It might feel like there's a hole in your heart today, Pisces, and you could have a hard time filling it. Remember that you're the one responsible for making sure this void is taken care of. If you insist that someone else fill the gap, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Do something nice for yourself and feel free to spend a little money to make yourself happy.

---

Vote Count 1 - 14

• Salamence20 (4) ( Dry-fit - ToastyToast -
  Gemini Blind
  - Nachomamma8 - StrangerCoug)
  
  PeregrineV (2) ( Salamence20 - Elyse)
  Elyse (2) ( Xayzeck - PeregrineV)
  Aronis (1) ( CrashTextDummie)
  ToastyToast (1) ( Iecerint)
  
  Not Voting (2) ( Aronis - Gemini Blind)

With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2014-09-13 15:35:00)

Seriously, shut the fuck up. I'm sick of your condescending attitude.

P-edit:
Done with you too. If you can't see the problem with focusing on ONE person for the entire day then I have no words for you.

[Elyse]

No really?

I wouldn't have known that was your opinion considering your entire ISO is about how I'm scummy with nothing to back it up.

[Elyse]

And I've dismantled every point and you just ignore it.

[Elyse]

My vote on Xay was (is?) purely pressure and I'm kinda getting a town vibe. He's hyper defensive and I think it's just how he is. But my vote is still on there because I haven't found a new home for it yet.

No I can tell from your posts.

I don't have a problem with it...see this is exactly what I'm talking about. You are hyper defensive, but I think it's just your personality and playstyle, not alignment indicative.

My vote is still on you because I don't really have a scumread. (I know it's bad, but not much is happening) I was thinking Sala, maybe, but his 207 read as town and I kind of agree with it. PV could be scum.

Where is this hyper defensiveness you're seeing? If it wasn't playstyle would it be scum indicative?

What do you dislike about PV or Sala?

It's in all of your posts. It might be indicative of newbscum if not a playstyle.

I do agree that Sala's early posts seemed noncommittal and only theory-based, but I don't think his recent content has been bad and he seems alright now.

PerV's ISO has a large chunk about just horoscopes and I feel like his Salamence vote is meh, though he's pretty open about just sheeping his townread Nacho. He's a player I usually get a gut feeling about and my gut says scum.

I guess I'll start there.

VOTE: PeregrineV

@SC
I have reads - just not scumreads. But now I'm voting PerV.

@Rolls
Salamence's sentiments toward Xay are similar to how I feel about him. He explained it pretty well himself. I also agree that PerV's vote was weak and I am also scumreading him.

What Elsye did is she started out with a (i think sort of)scumread on me, which was bad enough as it is because she never explained how it was scum indicative, and then dismissed it herself through metatells(maybe because of Nacho), yet keeps her vote on me(maybe because of Sala).

I voted you because you seemed easily excitable and would react under pressure. I thought I would be able to discern your alignment through pressuring you, but it seems as though your hyper defensiveness is just playstyle and not alignment indicative. I came to this conclusion because you are being defensive about everything - even things that aren't alignment indicative. I kept my vote on you because I didn't really have anyone else to move it to, and it's not like I'm townreading you or anything.

@Rolls: Like I said, it's possible Elyse is just sitting around waiting for something to happen, but then why isn't she voting me. She has stated she would be fine with my lynch, but why hasn't she voted me. It could be a reach for townie points.

When did I say that?

Why do you have such a problem with people townreading me?

How do you deduce that Xayzeck has a problem with people townreading you? He responded to this with a reasonable question and you blew him off.

Since the beginning he's been gunning for me since I put pressure on him in RVS. It's in his tone. He's always questioning people's reads on me.

I responded sarcastically because it was a dumb question. Obviously I am serious.

Why didn't you just say that the first time? I genuinely wondered if you thought I was kidding.

It's not like I asked some asinine question...and is your read on me strong enough to compare me to garbage music? Like I don't understand the vitriol with which you are acting toward me and your scumread on me. It just seems over the top when your case boils down to...actually I don't know. Your vote was out of the blue.

Why are you voting me?

[Elyse]

Basically your case is "Elyse voted me in RVS and then said I wasn't scummy and my hyperdefensiveness was playstyle and not alignment indicative. I don't know how she determined this because she didn't look at my meta. And she kept her vote on me."

My response - again - is that I voted you because your reactive nature made me think it would be easy to read you if you had pressure on you. When you reacted to everything I posted rather than just the stuff I expected you to react to, I realized your hyperdefensiveness is just playstyle. I kept my vote on you because I didn't have anywhere else to move it.

[Elyse]

Salamence why did you shoot me and did you read the game before doing so

[Elyse]

I still want to know

-if it's a real shot
-if Sala read before he shot me (which he'll probably lie about)
-why he shot me
-why he didn't ask me to claim
-why PV is content to wait until Monday when deadline is impending and he's voting someone who's potentially day killed

If I die make sure these are answered. Well the first one will be.