Open 569 ~ Hope + 1 ~ Game Over!

ika
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Post Post #2950  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:17 am

In post 2949, Varsoon wrote:My conclusion is that despite the posturing, prose, and paperwork, there's no pressure coming from the slot.
I can't really hate that, though.
I can't really call that scum.


would you consider lynching it come deadline?

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Post Post #2951  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:17 am

if we dont have another player to look for

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Post Post #2952  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:27 am

I'm still not sure why we need a system of faking claimed investigations (which narrows down the potential cop pool for scum and/or allows them to play WIFOM with their kills), when good ol'-fashioned "look at the dead cop's post history to see what they crumbed" is incredibly effective.




In post 2928, GreyICE wrote:
In post 2870, Varsoon wrote:Show me.
We both agree Thesp is smart, yes? And we agree that he has represented himself as having materially read the game, yes?

This is his ISO

Now just grab a sheet of paper, open Notepad, whatever, and make a tick every time he says something insightful about the game that is not setup speculation. Remember, setup speculation is alignment neutral - it could be happening in Mafia Discussion, about this exact setup, with zero game roles, and people will tend to post in game what they would in MD. We are not talking opportunistic "X said something scummy, FOS/Vote/etc". Something that indicates that Thesp - an intelligent person - is looking and analyzing the players. Not the roles, not the claims, the players.

Double dog dare you to find a single thing that wasn't opportunistic finger pointing, setup discussion, general philosophy winges, or random "my thoughts about events on the past few pages". What does that say? Is he smart enough to have insights on player's mentalities? Or is he too stupid to have that insight? Or is he just finding it really hard to do actual analysis of a player for some reason?

I came up with 29 tick marks. Is that close to the number you had for 24 posts in a week? What number do you think would be a sufficient bar at this point?

Do you think I have done the least player analysis and inquiry, or are there others that have done less but are less interesting to you for whatever reason?




I'm still quite happy with my vote on SXTLHGaiden, who continues to not contribute in meaningful ways. I'd like to see the two votes on Team 9 (from The Bulge and Team 9 (‽)) move somewhere useful. (Same with Flubbernugget, unless he's convinced he can break the bloc of ~7 voters who have expressed disinterest in a The Bulge lynch, particularly since he's now solo on The Bulge.)
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Post Post #2953  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:46 am

my townread on the slot is gone now

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Post Post #2954  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:49 am

Yeah, no, pretty sure SP is town.

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Post Post #2955  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:00 am

actually you know what

part of me wants to say Thesp was bussing Bulge and he just intended it to look like a lurker push, but then the wagon blew up and that's why he derailed it bc "it won't go through" despite the fact it totally would have

this is what I start thinking when I'm still awake at 8 AM. fuck me in the ass

-Rumia

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Post Post #2956  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:07 am

In post 2952, Thesp wrote:I'm still quite happy with my vote on SXTLHGaiden, who continues to not contribute in meaningful ways. I'd like to see the two votes on Team 9 (from The Bulge and Team 9 (‽)) move somewhere useful. (Same with Flubbernugget, unless he's convinced he can break the bloc of ~7 voters who have expressed disinterest in a The Bulge lynch, particularly since he's now solo on The Bulge.)

I'll ignore your biased and inaccurate review of your own posting (scum argues their posting is not scummy, news at 11).

Now why do you appear to be voting or threatening to vote people based on some arbitrary "utility" to the town? Do you really think this is how scumhunting occurs? "SXTL is of lower utility than X, so I am voting him"? Is that the base standard here?

Because Thesp, I wouldn't expect that sort of logic outside of a newbie game. "The IC is really helpful! They must be town because they're providing so much help! This other guy doesn't even seem to know what the game is, that must be scum!" The IC should helpfully dispel these misconceptions, and assure the players that just because one player seems to be helpful, in a generic sense, and another player doesn't seem as vocal or helpful, doesn't mean the better player is town.

You're not going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. S*Gaiden will not make long cases, write stunning insights, or sugar coat his words. He is not the man for multi-paragraph eloquence. He is, however, being honest to a fault, and it comes across in his writing. We have four days until deadline, Thesp. Why the panic about vote moving? At the pace of this game, that's another 500 posts or so. We could have wagons form and die in that time.

And what are your thoughts about me :wink:

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Post Post #2957  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:40 am

In post 2956, GreyICE wrote:
In post 2952, Thesp wrote:I'm still quite happy with my vote on SXTLHGaiden, who continues to not contribute in meaningful ways. I'd like to see the two votes on Team 9 (from The Bulge and Team 9 (‽)) move somewhere useful. (Same with Flubbernugget, unless he's convinced he can break the bloc of ~7 voters who have expressed disinterest in a The Bulge lynch, particularly since he's now solo on The Bulge.)

I'll ignore your biased and inaccurate review of your own posting (scum argues their posting is not scummy, news at 11).

Now why do you appear to be voting or threatening to vote people based on some arbitrary "utility" to the town? Do you really think this is how scumhunting occurs? "SXTL is of lower utility than X, so I am voting him"? Is that the base standard here?

Because Thesp, I wouldn't expect that sort of logic outside of a newbie game. "The IC is really helpful! They must be town because they're providing so much help! This other guy doesn't even seem to know what the game is, that must be scum!" The IC should helpfully dispel these misconceptions, and assure the players that just because one player seems to be helpful, in a generic sense, and another player doesn't seem as vocal or helpful, doesn't mean the better player is town.

You're not going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. S*Gaiden will not make long cases, write stunning insights, or sugar coat his words. He is not the man for multi-paragraph eloquence. He is, however, being honest to a fault, and it comes across in his writing. We have four days until deadline, Thesp. Why the panic about vote moving? At the pace of this game, that's another 500 posts or so. We could have wagons form and die in that time.

And what are your thoughts about me :wink:

I have no doubt that my self-assessment is biased, but I still disagree that all I've been doing is setup speculation and opportunistic pushes. I will let further analysis of my posting be an exercise best left to the reader.

Nor am I arguing that "helpfulness = town". I am arguing, however, that there's no good reason we should allow people to post meaningless crap and lurk in plain sight in a game that's already well past any sane posting measure. If SXTLHGaiden is honest to a fault (as you say), I'd love to see some more real, substantive posting out of them which doesn't need to be long paragraphs, but should actually be game-related. I have seen very, very little of that. I'm also coming off a game I modded where the 2 of the scum were hardcore non-contributors (and the third was middle-weight non-contributor day 1), so I'm more than a little interested in non-contributors and getting them involved or lynched.

As for my thoughts on you, I'm inclined to think your predecessor was town and wrong, as are you. ;) I'm inclined to think you have a strong scumread on Titus, and are shoehorning my posts into that perspective.

(And what do you mean panic about vote moving?)
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Post Post #2958  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:59 am

I don't like any of the cop strategies. Don't see why it's necessary to mess around like that. I can see either town or scum coming up with such a strategy, so it's not necessarily a scum read. Yes, I'm aware that this is a change of heart from my earlier posting on this topic.

Still trying to get my head around all the activity while I was in the air. One thing I can say for sure, a bunch of my reads need re-evaluation. I'll start doing that now, and we'll see how many posts come in that change the re-reads during the time it takes me to do the research. :roll:

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Post Post #2959  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:46 am

In post 2951, ika wrote:if we dont have another player to look for

I do!
And I swear im not talking about bulge.
So everyone answer my quesion, for it is necessary to further explain my point.

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Post Post #2960  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:50 am

In post 2959, Team 9 wrote:
In post 2951, ika wrote:if we dont have another player to look for

I do!
And I swear im not talking about bulge.
So everyone answer my quesion, for it is necessary to further explain my point.


In post 2946, Team 9 wrote:
In post 2941, GuyInFreezer wrote:What is your opinion about faking paranoia?

Is this the question you're referring to? If it is, I suppose I don't know what you're looking for in the question. I've seen scum fake paranoia (I was fooled by it once pretty hard fo' sho'), and there's certainly legitimate paranoia. If that's not the question you want answered, I don't know what you're looking for - could you restate it?
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Post Post #2961  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:51 am

In post 2945, Team 9 wrote:
In post 2928, GreyICE wrote:Double dog dare you to find a single thing that wasn't opportunistic finger pointing, setup discussion, general philosophy winges, or random "my thoughts about events on the past few pages". What does that say? Is he smart enough to have insights on player's mentalities? Or is he too stupid to have that insight? Or is he just finding it really hard to do actual analysis of a player for some reason?

while I have Thesp's slot as mostly null, I disagree with your reasoning here

for one Thesp has already said he has a bunch of townreads, but isn't elaborating on them. it is possible he's scum using this as a preemptive excuse for not having to elaborate on anything, but as long as his explanation checks out, I don't think this is a good angle to push. do you disagree?

second, if he was looking for an opportunistic lynch, his switch off the Bulge doesn't make sense imo. he unvoted Bulge bc "it doesn't look like Bulge will get lynched today". now that I'm looking at it again, his switch came, iirc, before most of the ppl had unvoted the Bulge.


My feeling on the Bulge wagon, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that people were voting for the Bulge because people were voting for the Bulge. I saw more descriptions of the wagon as a "leftover" wagon than I did of "this is scummy, we must murder this post haste". It's damn hard for scum to stay on a predecessor wagon - if nothing else it looks scummy. If you want to say the bulge wagon died because of anyone, it died because of notscience. Thesp actually came in AFTER not science started pushing the wagon away and tried to Kickstart the wagon, on the basis of "noncontributions" (which seems to be his new defining mantra - apparently all this scumhunting shit has gone out the window, and Thesp lynches based on post count and post length (the only explanation for him not being on TN's ass, besides the fact they're currently sharing a QT and shit)

Look at this post!

In post 2538, Thesp wrote:The Bulge isn't going to be lynched today. Looking at the people not on the wagon, enough have expressed disinterest in the wagon (or active opposition) that it can't make.

UNVOTE: The Bulge
VOTE: SXTLHGaiden

I want real pressure on the people who are deliberately not providing content. I would happily move my vote to startfromtheheart (especially if it puts an end to the posting diarrhoea).


He admits the reason he has for not pushing the wagon is that it can't happen! He wasn't instrumental to it collapsing, he just moved his vote because he wants a lynch on a "lurker" (The Bulge and Gaiden are town, by the by)

Please, you've admitted I'm a good scumhunter. You had a town read on my predecessor. Can I snow a town? Sure, but I can't snow my predecessor's ISO.

Why is this guy town? Look at that post. LOOK AT THAT POST!

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Post Post #2962  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:51 am

Sure.
does fake paranoia come from town or scum?

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Post Post #2963  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:52 am

Also I was kinda drunk so I didnt read any pie post yet but im gonna disagree with greyice scum for now.

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Post Post #2964  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:57 am

Starting in on the research, here is a Thesp summary. Had to start somewhere, no agenda implied by this choice. If anything it's just that this iso has a manageable number of posts. :wink:

Key to 1st char: n=null t=theory q=questions s=takes a stand r=response
Note on "taking a stand" posts -- some of these are taking a stand on the application of theory to this game, most of which are stating that the fake cop claims are bad, lynching the possible doc is bad, etc. I marked the ones which are pure theory as such. Any post which had other content was marked as the other content.

n 1380 - hi - null
n 1432 - catchup post - null
warns that posting on weekends will drop
calls out tn, Sakura Hana, Bins as uninteresting for votes
town reads of varying qualities
should we break the game?
Votes Bulge

t 1434 - cop strategy

t 1436 - cop strategy

t 1438 - cop strategy

q 1847 - cop strategy, lots of questions to players

q 1872 - more questions to players

q 1932 - more questions

r 2023 - response to my response

r 2027 - response to Bins and followup

s 2034 - takes a stand on 22

t 2037 - theory post on town vs scum replacing in, but responding to a jab

s 2041 - comment to bins on why reads have been bad

s 2534 - non-theory comments on cop strategy. comments on inactiveness. comments on fluff

s 2538 - Comment that Bulge won't be lynched. vote Gaiden

s 2539 - cop should be underground

n 2540 - unofficial votecount

s 2542 - doesn't want lynch on 22, and various others. questions Gaiden

s 2582 - against cop claims

s 2589 - bulge wagon comments

s 2599 - calls out ika for read change bulge town->scum. but hasn't seen anything town

s 2605 - calls out 22 and ika for being abrasive. doesn't want wagon on tilt. happier with Gaiden

s 2622 - Possible team9 doc lynch is insane

s 2730 - reiterates lynching possible doc is insane

s 2952 - against cop idea. responds to GreyICE's "Thesp isn't working" post. wants votes moved

r 2957 - more response to GreyICE

3 Null
4 Theory
3 Questions
3 Responses
13 Taking a stand
Iso total 26

I'm happy with the way Thesp is taking a stand against the fake cop claim scheme and against lynching Team 9 just to see if the doc claim was real. I could see town going through that initial questioning period, but could also see scum doing the same to feel out how strong the players being questioned are on their reads. There is a definite progression of type of post. Someone who doesn't distinguish between posts which are pure theory and taking a stand against a bad theory play could easily interpret this as being more than half misdirection. Overall, plausible for either scum or town. Feels a little more town to me, scum should be happy to see systems where PRs might be outed unnecessarily. But it's not an especially strong read.

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Post Post #2965  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:58 am

In post 2960, Thesp wrote:Is this the question you're referring to? If it is, I suppose I don't know what you're looking for in the question. I've seen scum fake paranoia (I was fooled by it once pretty hard fo' sho'), and there's certainly legitimate paranoia. If that's not the question you want answered, I don't know what you're looking for - could you restate it?

Ooh, can I do question and answer?

Did tn post before the game started in the QT, or are you flying completely blind on your partner's motivations?

If you want to go after non-contributors, where is Davesaz on this radar? The man has done literally nothing. Why does he get a pass? Is it because he's your scumbuddy? Because the man is fucking obvious.

If you wanted to name your scumteam, would it be "Captain Obvious and the Obviousteers" or "Oh my fucking god why did I replace in"?

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Post Post #2966  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:01 pm

In post 2962, Team 9 wrote:Sure.
does fake paranoia come from town or scum?


Is this a general question, or do you have something specific in mind? If it's specific, what?

Generally, "fake" is more likely to be scum than town. But I don't know if paranoia fits in that category because double negation might apply. Hence it would matter to me what the context was in determining if it's real paranoia which is being interpreted as fake, or true fake paranoia.

Question back at you -- if something seems paranoid, how do you know whether it's fake or not? And does reading it as fake imply the reader is town or scum?

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Post Post #2967  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:03 pm

In post 2965, GreyICE wrote:
In post 2960, Thesp wrote:Is this the question you're referring to? If it is, I suppose I don't know what you're looking for in the question. I've seen scum fake paranoia (I was fooled by it once pretty hard fo' sho'), and there's certainly legitimate paranoia. If that's not the question you want answered, I don't know what you're looking for - could you restate it?

Ooh, can I do question and answer?

Did tn post before the game started in the QT, or are you flying completely blind on your partner's motivations?

If you want to go after non-contributors, where is Davesaz on this radar? The man has done literally nothing. Why does he get a pass? Is it because he's your scumbuddy? Because the man is fucking obvious.

If you wanted to name your scumteam, would it be "Captain Obvious and the Obviousteers" or "Oh my fucking god why did I replace in"?


Umm, you do know how to ISO I assume? Perhaps comprehension is the problem? :roll:

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Post Post #2968  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:07 pm

In post 2965, GreyICE wrote:Did tn post before the game started in the QT, or are you flying completely blind on your partner's motivations?


I've noticed this a couple of times and wanted to get clarification. Are you talking about tn(4digit number) or Team 9? Because at least once it looked like you meant T9 and wrote tn. The question comes up because tn(numbers) posts are a bit more rare than Team 9.

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Post Post #2969  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:10 pm

In post 2965, GreyICE wrote:
In post 2960, Thesp wrote:Is this the question you're referring to? If it is, I suppose I don't know what you're looking for in the question. I've seen scum fake paranoia (I was fooled by it once pretty hard fo' sho'), and there's certainly legitimate paranoia. If that's not the question you want answered, I don't know what you're looking for - could you restate it?

Ooh, can I do question and answer?

Did tn post before the game started in the QT, or are you flying completely blind on your partner's motivations?

If you want to go after non-contributors, where is Davesaz on this radar? The man has done literally nothing. Why does he get a pass? Is it because he's your scumbuddy? Because the man is fucking obvious.

If you wanted to name your scumteam, would it be "Captain Obvious and the Obviousteers" or "Oh my fucking god why did I replace in"?

In part, because of and , which felt very genuine to me and I resonated a lot with. In the context of that, looking back at his ISO, I like a lot of what he has to say.

I'm also a bit confused by your attack on my vote switch off of The Bulge. The Bulge had been sitting at a high vote count for a while, and quite a few people voiced strong opposition to his lynch. So I reviewed the people who weren't voting for him at the time (with him sitting at L-2, if I recall correctly), and saw that nearly everyone not voting him was strongly against his lynch, with a couple of others who had chances to weigh in and showed no interest in voting for him. I guess I'm confused as to what you think I should have done - pushed a lynch that wasn't going to happen, or been productive with my vote?

I'd love for SXTLHGaiden to weigh in with their thoughts.
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Post Post #2970  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:11 pm

what thoughts would you like?
You're not going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. S*Gaiden will not make long cases, write stunning insights, or sugar coat his words. He is not the man for multi-paragraph eloquence. He is, however, being honest to a fault, and it comes across in his writing. - GreyICE

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Post Post #2971  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:12 pm

Gaiden already provided thoughts in the context of his playstyle, while playing within himself.

VOTE: Thesp

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Post Post #2972  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:13 pm

hey bert, i was beginning to think we weren't masons this game. nice to see you're back.
You're not going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. S*Gaiden will not make long cases, write stunning insights, or sugar coat his words. He is not the man for multi-paragraph eloquence. He is, however, being honest to a fault, and it comes across in his writing. - GreyICE

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Post Post #2973  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:16 pm

In post 2970, SXTLHGaiden wrote:what thoughts would you like?

Who do you think is scum? (I see you have your vote on Flubbernugget, what are your thoughts on other votegetters? Heck, what do you thin about The Bulge?) Any particular reasons you want to share for these suspicions? What do you think of Team 9's question?



In post 2971, startfromtheheart wrote:Gaiden already provided thoughts in the context of his playstyle, while playing within himself.

I have read this sentence about 10 times, and still have no idea what it is saying. Can you elaborate?
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Post Post #2974  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:21 pm

people who i would like to lynch today and think may be scum are: Dave and Flubber. Reasons: OMGIS. mostly i think i find most of flubber's post to be opportunistic. and i want dave lynched based on pure gut.
god, i suck at reading people.
what are votegetters?
Bulge, i have no thoughts on him.
question on paranoia? i think i asked something similar in tales of upick. don't know what to make of it.
You're not going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. S*Gaiden will not make long cases, write stunning insights, or sugar coat his words. He is not the man for multi-paragraph eloquence. He is, however, being honest to a fault, and it comes across in his writing. - GreyICE

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