Micro 392: The Assassin has regained control of the village!

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

There's no voting in Kingmaker???

~Dio

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

Vote: SoS
for good practice.
The Mob Rules

If you need me, I'll be busy reading and going to church- for a full belly is little worth where the mind is starved.
~Ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

Already?

~Dio \m/

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

I don't Nikanor AT ALL!

Who shoots the named king on D1 with no Scum Hunting.

The King will execute a player by posting EXECUTE: player in-thread. Only the king may do this.

So it's not a gambit. And if it is, it's against the rules.

~Ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

No official voting, no. I think it's beneficial to have votes out at all times, though. After all, a King who doesn't listen to his subjects at all may not be a particularly good king, don't you think?

well ok. this is a little silly scripten, no? how can there not be official voting, yet voting at the same time. any votes won't be count anyway. it's just that the votes are there... unofficially as a way to keep track of everyone's voting preferences/stances

I'm a little confused as to why you think what Script said was silly.

Once he no longer has the power of the kill it might make more sense to him.

~Dio \m/

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

At least each head of the hydra can't be individual scum.

Yeah, I like the idea of executing Nikanor. What do you think of that idea, Mantisdreamz?

The first thing I notice is that Nikanor was pushing for your execution.

~Dio \m/

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

At least each head of the hydra can't be individual scum.

Yeah, I like the idea of executing Nikanor. What do you think of that idea, Mantisdreamz?

The first thing I notice is that Nikanor was pushing for your execution.

uh-huh, but this isn't an opinion of nik's play.

Your point?

~Dio \m/

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

Town cred for anyone that shoots Nik and scumclaim for anyone that gives him the gun(should we call it a gun?) Shooting from the hip on P1, without scum hunting, I don't expect his contributions to be any greater than that for the rest of the game.

@mantis- Ok it's fake. IMO it makes it worse. Don't fake execute people. "Only the King can do this." But Aronis has spoken, so Problem Solved, Problem Staying Solved

Foxxx are you flavor hinting for town cred?

Maxous what makes Mantis less likeable than Fox and Nikanor?

Quinoa- Since this is an alt guessing game, are you a *quin, quin*, or a *quin* alt? And why do you think that Mantis knows you so well? All you've said to him is Hi.

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

Town cred for anyone that shoots Nik and scumclaim for anyone that gives him the gun(should we call it a gun?) Shooting from the hip on P1, without scum hunting, I don't expect his contributions to be any greater than that for the rest of the game.

@mantis- Ok it's fake. IMO it makes it worse. Don't fake execute people. "Only the King can do this." But Aronis has spoken, so Problem Solved, Problem Staying Solved

Foxxx are you flavor hinting for town cred?

Maxous what makes Mantis less likeable than Fox and Nikanor?

Quinoa- Since this is an alt guessing game, are you a *quin, quin*, or a *quin* alt? And why do you think that Mantis knows you so well? All you've said to him is Hi.

~Ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

All Hail Mantis!

I'm not so sure about this philosophy. Kingmaker is always town. Not the King.
Not to emply anything M'Lord.

The m'lord and All hail mantis. It isn't a post restriction. It looks like flavor hinting. Like this...

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

[quote="In post 97, SABBATHonSABBATH"][/quote]
~ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

thing is though... and this is in general. his push for execution was pretty much like a vote. in normal terms of mafia... ppl don't generally get freaked out over someone placing a vote.

But Nik's post was actualy like calling for a quick hammer, or trying to pressure a dayvig to act without reasoning.

~ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

In post 77, SABBATHonSABBATH wrote:
Maxous what makes Mantis less likeable than Fox and Nikanor?

idk how to answer this really? i didn't feel mantis was as town as nik.

Mantis is the Day1 named king, by either flavor or by role. Don't you think that's effectively a IC confirmation by the mod?
Which also brings me back to Nik's gambit choice. The named king? Very Ballsy.

Which part of 77 makes you think we should be killed? Is it that I'm not liking Nikan?
or the questions I asked? You already said you didn't like me prior to 77. What makes 77 different? -skip to post edit after seeing 166

~ozzy.

Can you point to further Nikanor contributions? I'm pushing a scummy gambit that was played in poor taste. Is that policy?

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

scumteam is sabbath & grayfoxxxx

though honestly a lot of my grayfoxx read comes from the fact that he chose to iso sabbath first & his iso on me (i haven't read the rest).

Oh great, an associative read assuming that a second player is scum based on a player who is town possibly being scum. Dio and I have no partners except each other.

~ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

Interesting point. What do you think, comparatively, of my (54)?

I cannot imagine both heads of a hydra legitimately believing that that was a gambit. Or that it is important anyhow.

Dio doesn't think the broken rule hurt anything, and I'm not sure if he understands why my panties are so bunched up over it.
27 was my refusal to believe the most likely truth. Post hoc 37 I've accepted it as a gambit, but a scummy one for multiple reasons.

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

   
~ozzy










 

 

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

My biggest issue is with Quinoa. Normally bullshit like that is a null read, but the deadlines are too short to be futzing around like that. Nikor gets some scum points for doing the same thing to a lesser extent.

There's too much WIFOM for me to agree with anything about Nikor's execute command to be anything other than a troll post. I guess you could say creating the WIFOM itself is scummy but meh. But I still find Nikor scummy for other reasons like a lot of his filler so I'm not getting in too much of a fit about Ozzy's scum read gambit thing.

Maxous is a little light on content for me to say much more than null.

GreyFoxx's reads lists are interesting, but at this stage in the game could very easily be faked by scum. I can't really read into his motivations with them. He gets town points for scumhunting afterwards though.

Nazerine is town. Scripten's meta argument on him has me thinking, but I'm not sure about what as of right now.

Right now I want either Nik or Quinora killed. Nik more than Quinora, who is kinda policy right now. I'll talk a little more with Ozzy but I'm pretty sure he'll agree there.

~Dio \m/

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

Can you pick his weakest ISO and analyze it for us?

~Dio \m/

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

You.

~Dio \m/

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

but your entire iso is weak, however will i choose just one post

Okay I was being lazy and assumed I was making sense and I wasn't. I apologize.

You didn't like GreyFoxx's posts with commentary on ISO's right? Would you be able to pick one of his ISO commentaries and refute it?

~Dio \m/

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

My biggest issue is with Quinoa. Normally bullshit like that is a null read, but the deadlines are too short to be futzing around like that.

Fucking around with long deadlines is null, but with short deadlines it's scummy?

Yes. It makes a higher percentage of his posting filler. Has he made a single contributive post yet?

~Dio \m/

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

So, I've taken a while away from this game to clear my head, and think about what I'm doing because nobody goes anywhere in this game when they're angrily tunneling, a bane of mine.

Spoiler: Essay reduction

Right now I feel like I'm the only one giving reasons as to why I think Nikan is scummy as opposed to Scripten and Greyfoxx whose viewpoints seem to be a little iffy.
Here's Scriptens post about it.

Nikanor - Scummy as hell. May just be VI, but I hate most early game gambits, so might be conf bias. Would love to see Mantis execute him later on if he doesn't start generating town-sided content.

I think he's saying that gambits are scummy in general, as opposed to my opinion that this particular gambit is scummy for reasons. i.e. breaking rules, against the king, not scumhunting, and that Nikan is scummy for calling for Script to be shot.
On top of that I don't think Scripten's claim of Nikan being a VI here is warranted. Nikan's wiki shows that he was named by Vi in Mini 914 to be in the God Tier of players(granted that was some years back). But it goes along with: Nikan is quite an experienced player, and VI is overly harsh. Scripten on the other hand is a newer player, so I'm offering some forgiveness here, but it's very mild. Along with some advice: Know the players that you are talking about before you start talking about them like this.

I don't feel like Greyfoxx's ISO reads line up with the content inside them. I'm very hesitant to follow the crowd in that the action over rides the content. I think he has been very buddying towards the King and that his attempts to be overly towny are fake. Someone may have told him to "try to look like a good little villager(see post 1 for reference)" because IMO, his actions have been a little over the top. I am hard claiming this as SCUM.

I'm of the opinion that Mantis is SOLID TOWN. By virtue of being the named D1 king. I'm a little iffy on that because I'm unsure if he was chosen by the mod, or by the kingmaker. Regardless of who he was chosen by, he seems town by play and necessity.
All of the games that I've ever played with a gun shot instead of the lynch require that the first person with the gun is town. I was also under the impression that this was a gun passing game, until I realized that one player would be choosing then next day's lynchmaster every day. But anyways I said all of that because I have two very serious contentions with Maxous.

One is that to believe the D1 king may not be town, is creating WIFOM against a preconceived notion that he is. (Also greyfoxx called mantis null, even though he's buddying so hard).
Another is

In post 77, SABBATHonSABBATH wrote:
Town cred for anyone that shoots Nik and scumclaim for anyone that gives him the gun(should we call it a gun?) Shooting from the hip on P1, without scum hunting, I don't expect his contributions to be any greater than that for the rest of the game.

they're adding a disclaimer to the scum-read: if nik flips town, 'ah well he wasn't gonna contribute anyway'
it's seems more like a policy lynch they're pushing.

He doesn't seem to give a crap that I want Nikanor killed,

(or at least he didn't mention it)(wanting Nikanor killed is pretty scummy right?)(He didn't even say that my reasons for wanting Nikanor killed were off.) (At this post, I'm actually trying to encourage someone/anyone to shoot Nikanor)

Anyways he completely bypass the things that are blatantly scummy in favor of saying that I want a policy lynch. In my experience policy lynches are pretty null as far as alignment goes. But to focus on that above everything else, tells me that his motivations are off. This is my second pick for true Scum.

Now that I think each of them are scum for their own reasons, I'm going back to GreyFoxx's 154. His evaluation of Maxous's 149 seems to be

a little

lacking and I'm not sure what to think of his 55 evaluation.

Comparing that to his evaluation of Scripten 115 there is no comment on Scripts actual reads, only information that he presented them. Coupled with an evaluation that Scripten isn't the Kingmaker.
According to Scripts post 185 he seems to be very suspicious of being pared with Naz. And I think he has the right to be, seeing as GreyFoxx's evalation of Script's play didn't mention Naz at all.
Greyfoxx's evaluation of tiershift seems to be clearly pointing a finger at Naz and linking him as scum with his bestest town read. This is aweful.

Greyfoxxx is obvscum. By PoE, his posts either point to Scripten or Maxous as his partner. Scripten's push back leads me to believe that Scripten is inno on this one. And there are enough reasons to believe that Maxous is scum in his own right.

erggh fukawall.
I don't care. It's in my ISO now if you want to look it up later. More later.
~ozzy.
P.edit. I changed my mind. it really isn't that hard to push the spoiler button.

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

Could you please point to my buddying? And give reason to why its buddying please

Your cutesy all hails, and m'lord statements are clearly directed towards Mantis. Do you think that if you say nice things to him, he'll town read you? I say it's buddying -to a null read non the less.

You say below he could be my scum partner but you say above you understand why Script got defensive. I dont think you can have one with the other.

His defensiveness makes it more likely that he isn't your partner. Scripten read it for what I said. Maybe I should have added in something like Scripten defense seems to be motivated by a town mindset, or something complicated and wordy like that.

Ive already explained that I am speculating on a link (if any) between the two. For a better explanation refer to my post 189. Seems like you are grabbing at straws here. Town doesn't do that

The "straw" that I'm grabbing at here is your towniest town read catches an associative scum read about 3 posts later even though you seem to have no reason to suspect him as being any sort of scum.

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

why did ya vote yourself?

For good practice/Votes don't count/ To present SoS is an acceptable nickname.
~ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

[quote="In post 250, SABBATHonSABBATH"][/quote]
I keep forgetting these.
~Ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

@SABBATH:

Please explain your Nik scumread beyond the completely ridiculous claim that he attempted to execute the king. I do not see why that scumread has remained so implacable.

-A

So uh, what happened to your nik read?

abandoned by WIFOM. Actual game information presented itself and I realized I was being stupid.

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

Are you ignoring my other posts about him? Plus I am just trying to keep the style of the game up. My good sir.

yea, and it's not any sort of posting restriction. Which posts should I be ignoring? Is it 158

His defensiveness makes it more likely that he isn't your partner. Scripten read it for what I said. Maybe I should have added in something like Scripten defense seems to be motivated by a town mindset, or something complicated and wordy like that.

Wait wait wait. How did what you said translate to what Scripten said???? "Greyfoxx's evaluation of tiershift seems to be clearly pointing a finger at Naz and linking him as scum with his bestest town read." I dont see it. So this really means "He said that your posts lean toward you trying to implicate me as your scum partner (Assuming you are scum) and said that my reaction and push back suggest my innocence." I call B.S. Someone else please give me some insight.

"Scripten's push back leads me to believe that Scripten is inno on this one." -ozzy

Why did you flat out ignore my answer to this?

189 So you are justifying your scum read on Scripten by WIFOM? If I'm supposed to believe that you are telling the truth, then you expect me to believe that since Nazarene is now your biggest scum read, you're claiming a Nazarene/Scripten scum team. If not, why did you say it? Explain your scum read on Scripten.

~

Josh_B

Ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

What the fuck does abandoned by WIFOM mean? What in Nikanor's behaviour is townish now?

What if I'm death tunneling on some stupid crap that actually has nothing to do with the game? Are there other things that I should be looking at?- Oh there are. Wow. I think I only drank the poisoned glass at the beginning of the game.

pshh nothing really. I just calmed down and re-evaluated the game with a clear mind. I still don't think he should be given the gun and I'm sticking to that.

What's your opinion of Maxous?

~ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

In post 207, Nazarene wrote:

@Sabbath:

Why am I so town to you?

Can I please know which head josh?

Requoting this AGAIN. Please respond.

You were town at the time because you got straight to scumhunting. No bullshit. But right now, I really don't like how you accused us of having

Why was this such a hugely important question that you had to press it twice over?

~Dio \m/

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

You were town at the time because you got straight to scumhunting. No bullshit. But right now, I really don't like how you accused us of having

Why was this such a hugely important question that you had to press it twice over?

I asked thrice because I was worried about your read on me. No one had read us as town that strongly up to that point and you did, for reasons I could not see. And you kept on not responding.

And my worries were proven right. You abandoned your townread on us quickly, leaving me to believe you exaggerated your townread on us for whatever reason, just as you did with your nikanor scumread.

Can you please complete the unfinished sentence in your previous post?
-Tier

I took issue with the fact that you criticized us for null reading Foxx's ISO's, and then went and said they were scummy. Our reasons for the reads weren't that different either. I also disagree that IIoA can be considered a scumtell regardless of context.

~Dio \m/

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

According to GreyFoxx

1. Scripten is hard town
2. Nazarene is leaning scum
3. Nazarene and Scripten are probably scum partners

I don't know how much clearer I can be. Points 1 and 2 do not follow with point 3. Like, AT ALL.

For Scripten I can drop my point on Foxx buddying, but it's a small detail to my POV that Foxx is over exaggerating an attempt to look townie, and failing.
Foxx's new stance towards Scripten is OMGUS.

I'll go back and try to respond to some posts that are directed at me.

VOTE: GREYFOXXX

~ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

1- Still you are ignoring my other posts towards him. But it doesn't matter, your buddying claim is so weak. I called Mantis King a few times. Big deal.

2. All you did was rephrase. Did not answer how the two statements are parallel. Why?

3. Dont really have a scum read on him, what are you talking about. You are trying to go in circles with this all day. Why?

It's more about your attempts to look town being overly exxagerated.

Scripten cannot be simultaneously town and scum partners with Nazarene.

Any possible logic that could justify your thoughts of Scripten and Nazarene being the scum team, is circular.

I think maxous is scum too for the record. I'm not sure why this Scripten thing is more of an issue.

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

.

I'm sorry guys this is my first hydra and I keep forgetting to sign. ~ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

What does no multi posts mean? I'll have to do a rewrite of everything I said tomorrow. This is frustrating.

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

This message includes a lengthy response to greyfoxx, Nazarene, and Maxous.

Spoiler: because fukawall

So explain how in any world would those to quotes mean the same thing. All I did was copy and paste. No word twisting or anything.

I think there's a disconnect with the pronouns.
It should say +Linking [Nazarene] as scum with [Greyfoxx's] bestest town read.
I don't care if you change your reads. As more information comes up, shouldn't we all be allowed to change our reads? But it's not like this is a different read set. Just because it's broken up into multiple posts, it's still the same set of reads, which is why the reads are contradicting.
After a long series of OMGUS you think that Scripten is scum, but at the time, you had scripten as your highest town read.- Solid town.
If he is such solid town, he isn't partners with anyone. He isn't partners with me, he isn't partners with you, he isn't partners with your sister, he is not Nazarene's scum partner. Your Scripten read included no suspicion what so ever about any possible scummyness even minutely.

Speaking of read changes,
Nazerine- How is it possible that you are both questioning my read change and calling reads static at the same time? do you think they are both?
What is WIFOM to you? I've explained how my read is related to WIFOM as I see it. Maybe we have a different definition. My definition is anytime there are choices where one or the other could be right. Heck, they could probably both be wrong at the same time. Specifically in this case, I was probably tunneling on something that wasn't alignment indicative, and there was possibly real scummyness in the game.

The statement about the king being town by necessity only applies to the D1 King. I didn't know whether or not the mod chose the first king or the kingmaker chose the first king. And I thought that King chose the next king. So that point is pretty much mute now that I understand the mechanics of this game more fully.
In a game where the first king is scum and he gets to choose the next king, the game is in lylo before it even starts.
D1 Scum Kill (passes gun to partner)
N1 Scum Kill
D2 Scum Kill (passes gun to derp town)
N2 Scum Kill
D3 Lylo with derp townie holding the gun.
I've never seen a game where the mod chosen D1 gun holder passing the gun is scum, evar.

Even with this setup, it is just as important for the king to be town everyday because if not, it increases the number of kills that the scum have and decreases the equality of town, driving the game to lylo faster. But it is also just as important that the gun isn't given to people that are very jittery in their reads and overly quick to pull the trigger like Nikanor. Also me. Plus I don't want to have that sort of responsibility.

So to speak on the matter of by play(this is also for Maxous), Mantis can use his kill to end the DP at anytime. The length of the DP at this time shows that he is allowing information to flow freely to get the most use out of the DP. He also isn't attempting to derp someone into saying something that he can use to justify killing them. And there is one other thing that he isn't doing and makes him town that I won't mention because it is very scummy and it may come up later, but so far hasn't yet.

Spoiler: because one spoiler wasn't enough

and at Maxous. I wrote a long message detailing my read change. I may not be good at explaining things, and it's probably confusing to read my posts. Sometimes, I try to write sentences that have 15 thoughts inside them rather than one. It's ADD related. But in no way did I just suddenly abandon a scum read on Nikanor, I even explained that. I was mad that Nikanor broke a rule, I talked it over with Dio, I took some time to calm down, I realized that I was being petty and I evaluated the new information in the game.

My post about giving town cred to anyone that shot Nikanor was blatently scummy. Nothing was said about me wanting him shot and the scumminess of that in itself. A new reason saying that I wanted a policy lynch was invented.
I said that Nikanor wasn't going to add any value to the game, that is scummy as fuck. Every player can add value to the game. Did you mention that? NO! you just said that I wanted a policy lynch, bypassing all of the things that I did that were scummy and going for something that wasn't part of what I was saying. I was still mad and wanted him dead because his gambit was scummy, and I've given plenty of reasons why I thought it was scummy.

GreyFoxx, The biggest part of my post was saying that I thought you were scum, and that Maxouss was scum. Why did you choose to focus on the issue with Scripten. I said I thought he was town because of the way he responded to your simultaneous accusations of being scum and town at the same time. Is that what bothers you the most? Should I assume that you are ok with my scum read on maxous?

I am really tired right now. If there is some anger and frustration in this post, I'm sorry. I couldn't help it, and I'm too tired to try and edit it out.

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

.

I dont think this is necessary for this post but
~ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

Also Greyfoxx, Any comment on the disconnects between your evaluations of the posts and the actual posts themselves such as the one I pointed out by Maxous.
free link to your read 154
maxous post [post]149[/149]

I think you forgot to read the bottom half of the post. I don't really care what you have to say about the rest of the post. I'm calling you scummy because there are parts of posts that you didn't respond to and evaluate, and I think your ISO evaluations were fake. This is just one particular example that I noticed. I don't want you to skate off by talking about the post and not what I'm actually calling scummy for.

~ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

post 219

Greyfoxx's evaluation of tiershift(NaZ) seems to be clearly pointing a finger at Naz and linking him(Scripten) as scum with his(Greyfoxx's) bestest town read(Sripten). This is aweful.

This is SABs quote all this fuss is over by the way.

Script and Sab both said it really meant that I was trying to seem scum while also making Script seem like my scum buddy. I don't even.

Script then changes views yadda yadda

There is a pronoun error. I've added in some parentheses so that hopefully it will read better. and a shorter edited version
Greyfoxx says that his highest town read is scum buddies with Nazarene. This is awful.

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

Oh look I found this gif of myself when I used to play on the jets...


I think I said a lot of complicated shit, but I was calling Greyfoxx scum for multiple reasons. being
Attempting to use the game flavor to appear town.
Creating the ISO reads as an attempt to appear town. because the ISO's
1. have Poor evaluations of posts and leave out the more important parts of the posts.
2. are Describing the posts rather than giving opinions on their content, and
Contradictions.

This just happens to be the point that is being questioned.

Uses meta way to strongly here. Makes me look at Script as poss. scum if Naz is scum.

This is the comment that was being questioned. Greyfoxx thinks Scripten is town, thinks Naz is scum, thinks scripten may be scum with Naz.
This is a lot different than Maxous's example. Maxous thought both parties were town, but still suspicious. In this case GF says Scripten and Nazarene are on opposite sides of the spectrum.
In max's defense, he says that GF is going to be reevaluating everyone. But that's not what was said. Greyfoxx is looking at Scripten as Nazarene's partner.
GF doesn't have any case on Scripten being scum except for one comment made Nazarene. And he still hasn't made any case on Scripten being scum except some OMGUS to being pressed on how the Sripten and Naz are connected in any other way.

I don't think Scripten is wrong in his interpretation of what I said. Greyfoxx did make an awkward comment praising Maxous for town reading scripten which I also pointed out. This could be another area where a misinterpretation is happening. Because of the praise, I considered Scripten as a scum partner of Greyfoxx, but concluded that it was probably not the case. Due to Scripten responses to GF.

In other news, I like the GF's response to my earlier question about the disconnect between what he chose to respond to, and the content in the posts.
something along the lines of "I can't help it if you think there's a disconnect" I think it's a pretty fair response, and I'm not going to press this matter further. There are too many misinterpretations at this point and most of them are probably based on my wordiness.

~ozzy.

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

Soo... he isn't scum reading Naz? FML. I swear, this is so fucking circular that it is stupid. I don't care about Foxx anymore right now. If he's scum, he'll keep being scum and doing scum things. otherwise, we can work together to find real scum.


~ozzy

[SABBATHonSABBATH]

Format your Vote the right way, and try again.

~ozzy.