NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

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Post Post #7  (isolation #0)  » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:45 pm

/confirm

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Post Post #134  (isolation #1)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:44 pm

What do you think of Csareo's game play here so far, Aneninen?

goodmorning, do you think Csareo is scummy, maybe townie, or null? I'm getting an everything from you.

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Post Post #135  (isolation #2)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:46 pm

I don't think Boons anything is obvious.

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Post Post #168  (isolation #3)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:18 pm

Egg, soon.

In post 152, T S O wrote:There were no productive wagons at the time - the only thing I did/felt like doing was mildly ripping the piss out of you.


this did not happen during that time.

is your vote on csareo for real now? you didn't do the "MY RVS VOTE IS SERIOUS NOW" neon blinking lights indicator.

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Post Post #171  (isolation #4)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:20 pm

Csareo, you're the meta TSO researcher. You tell us.

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Post Post #196  (isolation #5)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:34 pm

Nero, do you think Csareo's wagon was scum motivated?

His wagon had barely anyone on him especially relative to a large game so I personally don't see what was so fast about it.

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Post Post #209  (isolation #6)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:43 pm

In post 201, Nero Cain wrote:If he's town then yes.

Remind me of your read on him.


I don't get it. You first insinuate Csareo may be scummy, but then you follow it up by insinuating that you're not voting for him because the wagon (which means it looks scummy). So you follow this up by voting someone not on the wagon you just insinuated was scummy and then playing iffys on Csareo's alignment.

None of that makes sense.

VOTE: Nero

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Post Post #212  (isolation #7)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:44 pm

Csareo deciding to target the one person who looked to maybe be defending him looks kinda townie. Why TSO out of all others? I can see maybe scum buddies doing it, but it's way too early for that and their interaction makes me go nah.

And I never insinuated people on the Csareo wagon are scummy. On the contrary, I think some of those being antsy and backing off of it are being scummy.

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Post Post #220  (isolation #8)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:37 pm

In post 219, Garmr wrote:So you think the people unvoting him and not the people still on it are scum?


Everyone I thought was being scummy about Csareo I questioned when I came into the thread. The person who is currently being outright scummy about it I am voting.

Backing off is the wrong wording. It's a combination of wishwashiness on how they feel about his alignment, finding weird unnatural ways to maybe call him town, or finding potential excuses for his behavior.

In post 219, Garmr wrote:So at this time it seems you were undecided on tso what do you think of him?


I never made it clear what I thought about TSO in that post. I don't know about TSO's alignment though.

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Post Post #226  (isolation #9)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:26 pm

If Csareo is being Csareo and doing the exact same thing as that game you linked and he was town, why is it a null to you?

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Post Post #231  (isolation #10)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:57 pm

Anen: I mean, I'm reading what you're saying as you having seen Csareo play similarly before and he was town, but you're also calling his play here a null.

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Post Post #248  (isolation #11)  » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:20 am

In post 237, Nero Cain wrote:A wagon on a town player going fast is an excellent indication of that player being town and scum piling on. + just 'cause a wagon is scum lead it doesn't mean all the scum are on it. So why are you feigning ignorance here? Also flipping your mind on someone is in no way alignment indicative.


You are using a hypothetical. Let's talk about what is happening in this game right now. Are you town reading Csareo? I didn't say you said all scum were on the Csareo wagon anywhere. If you think the wagon on Csareo is scum lead, who do you think is leading it then and why?

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Post Post #249  (isolation #12)  » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:48 am

In post 241, Aneninen wrote:@Thor. I re-checked TOS. He should know Csareo's gameplay well – yet he's putting too much effort into his conversation with him. Also, TSO had voted for "Caesar" and our mod posted that his vote wouldn't be counted. TSO hasn't correct his vote since then (nor did another vote), as far as I can see. These things are disturbing.


What about these actions do you find disturbing? To be clear, does disturbing = scummy? When you say T S O is putting too much effort into his conversations with Csareo, what do you mean?

Csareo, Csareo, Csareo!

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Post Post #335  (isolation #13)  » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:33 pm

@Nero Cain,

In post 254, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 250, TobyLoby wrote:
In post 237, Nero Cain wrote:A wagon on a town player going fast is an excellent indication of that player being town and scum piling on. + just 'cause a wagon is scum lead it doesn't mean all the scum are on it. So why are you feigning ignorance here? Also flipping your mind on someone is in no way alignment indicative.


You are using a hypothetical. Let's talk about what is happening in this game right now. Are you town reading Csareo? I didn't say you said all scum were on the Csareo wagon anywhere. If you think the wagon on Csareo is scum lead, who do you think is leading it then and why?

When I first read the thread there was this rapid fire "csareo is scum" and that made me pretty uneasy. So, who do you think has been the counter to him? I could see maybe Muffin scum hoping on. Yes, I think Csaro is probs town. Why have you not given a read on him?


What was your meaning behind this:

In post 197, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 191, Csareo wrote:Why would you be okay vigging me?

Well why should I think you are town?
?

I gave my read on Csareo here.

@Aneninen,

In post 250, Aneninen wrote:TSO knows how terrible Csareo is on Day1 and he also knows that he was town in that game. I simply don't understand why TSO's maintaining a long interaction with Csareo – he must have known that by getting involved in that would increase the "noise" in the thread. It's definitely anti-town and – in my opinion – scummy too.
There's something else which is merely an intuition. What if both of them are scum(s) and their Day1 is purely intentional?


Do you think T S O should be town reading Csareo for his play here based on past experiences? What are your thoughts on goodmorning?

The main scum intent I can see by T S O calling Csareo maybe town while voting him still is if they are scum together and T S O wants to make Csareo look good. Csareo's continued reaction makes me think nah. I also think based on that abandoned game together, scum T S O would believe that drawing attention to scum buddy Csareo is a bad idea given his prior lynch.

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Post Post #337  (isolation #14)  » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:59 pm

In post 325, T S O wrote:Uhhh, gm - I appreciated your support in those troubling times and all, but I don't remember us playing many games together. I think I can only remember one, actually.


Where did this reply come from and what is it specifically responding to? GM hadn't posted for awhile before this.

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Post Post #341  (isolation #15)  » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:17 pm

Anen, I understand that you believe T S O should have ignored Csareo instead of interacting with him. I'm confused by what specific point you're making regarding Csareo being town in that other game, your belief Csareo was acting the same here, and how it applies to what T S O should be doing and thinking.

The two people I'd say who have interacted the most with Csareo have been T S O and goodmorning. I wanted to see how you viewed the two. What makes you think goodmorning may be town?

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Post Post #345  (isolation #16)  » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:23 pm

I think people have been scummy around Csareo. I question people about their Csareo reads. We proceed to talk about Csareo. People also question me about Csareo.

Now both you and me continue the cycle of talking about Csareo.

Csareo, Csareo, Csareo.

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Post Post #405  (isolation #17)  » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:06 pm

@GrayFoxxxx,

In post 356, GrayFoxxxx wrote:I'm seeing TSO as town. I have been in some pissing matches (looking at you Thor), but TSO took it to another level. I know effort doesn't indicate alignment but TSOs effort and willingness to respond to everything indicates null town at the least. The content of his effort doesn't feel scummy. I think he should try not to tunnel so much because it gives scum some leverage when pushing a wagon.


I agree that TSO's content doesn't feel scummy. I think a large amount of effort is also townie in general, but I don't see how his willingness to respond to everything puts him on another level of effort though. I also don't think he has been responding to everything (at least not to two of my questions :'().

Why do you think Tier is scummy?

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Post Post #407  (isolation #18)  » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:09 pm

@Tiershift,

In post 359, TierShift wrote:I don't like this post and I'll research you now.


What about Gamr's post don't you like?

In post 361, TierShift wrote:Toby, you mentioned other people backing off the csareo wagon being scummy. Who would classify as such besides nero?


I used the wrong wording in regard to backing off, I think. When I came into the thread the people I was suspicious of goodmorning's and Anen's interaction with Csareo and his wagon.

In post 32 goodmorning calls something of Csareo's earnest which indicates (to me) feelings of town, while the rest signifies she thinks he's scummy. Most of her immediate interaction after that point looks like someone who thinks he's scummy, and calls his rolefishing scummy, but she doesn't vote him. She doesn't vote him or put Csareo on her IGMEO list here.

Anen coming into the thread after RVS and posting Csareo meta while not commentating on his personal feelings of Csareo's play is more weird than backing off. It's excusing Csareo's behavior using meta without commenting on what is going on here. Also, when I see town meta used as reasoning to maybe excuse someone's play, I feel like I should be reading it as townie and not to read as null.

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Post Post #408  (isolation #19)  » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:10 pm

This is the only one relevant now.

In post 337, TobyLoby wrote:
In post 325, T S O wrote:Uhhh, gm - I appreciated your support in those troubling times and all, but I don't remember us playing many games together. I think I can only remember one, actually.


Where did this reply come from and what is it specifically responding to? GM hadn't posted for awhile before this.

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Post Post #413  (isolation #20)  » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:38 pm

In post 378, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 335, TobyLoby wrote:I gave my read on Csareo here.

HAHA. So you are voting me for being wishy washy/fence sittery whatever you want to call it when you say its looks "kinda townish". Such a hard stance. pls get to dying hypocritical alt scum.


Are you going to answer the meaning behind your post here?

In post 197, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 191, Csareo wrote:Why would you be okay vigging me?

Well why should I think you are town?


Because, that looks like someone who after calling Csareo town given your fast wagon hypothetical, you then ask Csareo why you should think he is town. This looks like someone who doesn't think he is all that town.

I am not voting you on wishywashiness. Only you used those words. I am voting you on not being consistent on your read of Csareo while playing off a simultaneous scum Csareo and town Csareo possibility.

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Post Post #414  (isolation #21)  » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:41 pm

In post 412, Cho wrote:Also, my vote on T S O was premature and fueled by illogical desires. I think he's town.

VOTE: davesaz

This is a temporary OMGUS vote, in lieu of a solid scumread to focus on at the moment. I'm a bit disconnected from this game.


davesaz isn't voting you and has barely mentioned you.

Why the T S O town read now?

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Post Post #431  (isolation #22)  » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:12 pm

@Aneninen,

In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Toby, 407 – also, why are you townreading TSO?
"Anen coming into the thread after RVS and posting Csareo meta while not commentating on his personal feelings of Csareo's play is more weird than backing off. It's excusing Csareo's behavior using meta without commenting on what is going on here. Also, when I see town meta used as reasoning to maybe excuse someone's play, I feel like I should be reading it as townie and not to read as null."
Maybe I failed to express myself before. Csareo's gameplay in that game was &#@%!NoobScum and he was town. I simply don't think that he could perform (or now: could have performed) a better gameplay as scum. That'swhy he was null. Do you understand it now?


I haven't been town reading TSO. I don't see the scum intent in his actions though.

I can understand your own reasoning of why and how you read Csareo's gameplay as a null. You have been consistent with that. What I think is weird was you laying that meta down without discussing Csareo's game play here and how it relates to that game. It's not actively engaging or commenting on the specifics on what was going on, while excusing his play using an outside resource. At the time, you also didn't explain why null over town. When I see town meta being brought up and relating it between games, I personally feel like I am expected to read it as town.

You show me Csareo town meta in Mini 1601 and relate it to his play here. Why should I think it indicates his play here is null and not town?

Why Pere over TSO?

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Post Post #432  (isolation #23)  » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:35 pm

In post 418, Aneninen wrote:381 "I don't lurk as scum. Aneninen, Cho, Egg, Thor and Pere have all seen my scumgame when it's working decently. You can ask them."
383 "I really don't agree with anything Aneninen is saying right now." – soooo, if I posted I knew how you played as scum would you disagree with me? ^_^


I took it as him saying he doesn't agree with what you have said, not necessarily disagreeing with everything you may end up saying. What is your interpretation of it?

In post 426, T S O wrote:What part of this very basic sequence do you have a problem with? More to the point, how exactly would this lead to me being scum in any possible scenario?


I didn't see him saying the last part. Did he say this?

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Post Post #490  (isolation #24)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:17 pm

In post 484, Aeronaut wrote:Alright. Done some reading. Woo.

Spoiler:
Page 1-5 opinions. Hoping there aren't any idiots trying to scumread off of page 1 joke claims this time around.

In post 26, Csareo wrote:
In post 13, TierShift wrote:/confirm as town 3-shot reviver

Let's hope for a good time!

Why did you claim? I have no idea why someone in their right minds would claim reviver, and I hope you make it to D2 to realize why.
Can you revive yourself?

Oh. *replaces out*

In post 39, Scripten wrote:
In post 36, Thor665 wrote:I now support Csaro's lynch also.

Scripten's drunk post is also a policy lynch.

People should vote one or the other, my RVS stage is over.


Policy lynchers should be policy lynched.

Thor vote is serious.

Why do you support Csareo's lynch? It's not a policy lynch, because you just said you are against that. What makes him scummy?

In post 43, Cho wrote:Cho claimed Mafia 2-Shot Even-Night Bulletproof Vigilante in the neighborhood last night.

VOTE: Cho

I believe the claim.

What... What?

In post 50, Boonskiies wrote:The claims on page 1 are most likely just fooling around. Why did cho claim mafia?

VOTE: Cho


I should know by now that Boon doesn't see logic, but are you voting him/her (sorry haven't checked) because they "claimed mafia"? C'mon now, that's silly and opportunistic.

In post 61, goodmorning wrote:I was ignoring the Neighbourhood claim because it's not particularly beneficial to out it atm.

Yes, I'm in a Neighbourhood with 3 others and Cho. No, I don't think we can say there's absolutely Scum in the Neighbourhood, though it is likely.

Neighbour claim is indeed completely irrelevant to what's been posted thus far.

Nothing is irrelevant. Also, why would you claim if it's "not particularly beneficial to out it"? Direct contradiction?

In post 80, T S O wrote:It doesn't? The whole point of it is that if he opens scummily as both, then in theory, an opening which isn't quite as scummy should point towards him being Town.

How does it point towards him being anything? If anything, it makes him WIFOM-Null. You said if he opens scumily, like in the game you posted, then he ended up as town. Yet, you ALSO said that this game, he opened up more townie. So by your logic, that makes him scum. However, you're still passing him off as a VI. Which is it?

In post 89, Csareo wrote:Is anyone else suspicious of the early tunnel on me, and how TSO seemed to fuel it?

A bit. He wasn't really tunneling on you, he was more making sure everyone knew you were a VI.

In post 104, Csareo wrote:It started too quick

For the love of God, please figure out the difference between "Too" and "To".

Alright. Only real read I have so far is that TSO isn't making actual sense. He's acting very different than in a game I can't mention yet, so that's something too. Csareo is beig annoying, but I don't really think he's scum ATM.

Will read more soon.


I can safely say that commentary on leaving the game, saying what to a self-vote and probable fake claim, and making to/too corrections is irrelevant.

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Post Post #491  (isolation #25)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:33 pm

@Pere, What are your thoughts now that you've read the thread?

I forgot, Anen what are your thoughts of Nero?

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Post Post #492  (isolation #26)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:40 pm

Anen, you commented earlier on Nero which looked like you may have thought he was scummy. Other than talking about his read of me with him you haven't commented on him since. What happened there?

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Post Post #499  (isolation #27)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:30 pm

Why yes?

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Post Post #517  (isolation #28)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:47 pm

In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:11. Goofyd00d- Early scumvibes. Some of the things he says are contradictions in and of themselves. (295 and 455 are examples)


I don't see the contradiction between these two posts. The one one he says he tends to fly under the radar when there is a lot of action. The second post he says he sucks when there is a lot of activity.

I've heard of the multiball tell. I've seen it once applied and used before successfully on scum, and I've used it as scum to try and lynch town working on the assumption. So it's all over the place for me. I especially don't know what to think of it when someone outright says it.

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Post Post #523  (isolation #29)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:56 pm

Gut scum on Aneninen.

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Post Post #531  (isolation #30)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:09 pm

Yes.

If I were to switch votes this moment it would be on goodmorning or Anen. Gut scum on Anen, but I think my issues regarding goodmorning when I expressed my issues with her Csareo interaction have a stronger backing to it.

@Anen, sure.

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Post Post #551  (isolation #31)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:12 pm

I actually want to see the pretty graph as long as it doesn't significantly delay posting.

Yes @ Anen.

In post 535, PeregrineV wrote:So when others post a lot, expect less from him, or him to not be as good. When others slow down on posting, he gets better, and posts more, but then all that extra posting is increased activity, so he gets bad again....or something. Not down with the pre-excuses for bad play, seems like scum setting up to slough off any scrutiny.


I thought about this. I think I see what you are getting at if you follow it through.

Most of the time when I ask questions I am either looking for a specific response and/or to see they are coming from in their motivation. I am not going to go into more specifics of what my intent is beyond that. Some things get follow-ups and a lot of the time it's followed up by another question depending on how they respond.

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Post Post #552  (isolation #32)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:20 pm

In post 539, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 490, TobyLoby wrote:I can safely say that commentary on leaving the game, saying what to a self-vote and probable fake claim, and making to/too corrections is irrelevant.

I can safely say that after reading 10 pages, all five of your fluff posts have been irrelevant as well. Let's see if we can hit ten by the time I'm caught up.


What.... What?

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Post Post #554  (isolation #33)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:42 pm

Nero, you're obviously keeping up with the thread. I'd like a response from you and see more of your commentary on what's going on.


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