NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

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Post Post #8  (isolation #0)  » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:51 pm

/confirm
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Post Post #32  (isolation #1)  » Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:04 pm

In post 26, Csareo wrote:
In post 13, TierShift wrote:/confirm as town 3-shot reviver

Let's hope for a good time!

Why did you claim? I have no idea why someone in their right minds would claim reviver, and I hope you make it to D2 to realize why.

the earnest, it burnsssss

Can you revive yourself?

I don't like this question.

In post 29, davesaz wrote:I don't think any of the confirm phase comments can be taken at face value. Reviver isn't even a normal role. Supersaint could be real but suffers the drawbacks you pointed out.

Large Normals are allowed TWO (2) non-Normal roles or modifiers as long as they have not been marked explicitly non-Normal by the NRG.
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Post Post #34  (isolation #2)  » Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:25 pm

In post 33, Csareo wrote:
In post 32, goodmorning wrote:the earnest, it burnsssss

Are you trying to imply something. I'm curious on why you immediately latch on to this player as the game begins.

I'm curious as to why you've suddenly felt the need to refer to yourself in the third person.

I don't like this question.

Try to not be alarmed when players investigate a lead. It's some crazy trend seen with this so called town bunch.

Does Town need to know whether a claimed Reviver can self-Revive? No.
Does Scum? Yes.
Does that make my dislike of your question clearer?

Large Normals are allowed TWO (2) non-Normal roles or modifiers as long as they have not been marked explicitly non-Normal by the NRG.

This is good to know. Are either of the claimed roles normal? Can you link where you got this information?

Normal
Anything that is neither on a red list nor a green list would qualify as one of the possible two.

For the record, I doubt anyone was being serious in claiming.
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Post Post #54  (isolation #3)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:40 am

In post 35, Csareo wrote:
Does Town need to know whether a claimed Reviver can self-Revive? No.
Does Scum? Yes.
Does that make my dislike of your question clearer?

I actually think it is an important question, because if he says yes than he is cleared of all lynch attempts by scum. That is a vital benefit, is it not?
Along the same lines as the supersaint, he is cleared of all lynch attempts by having the ability to "Self Revive", but it is also suspicious because it is an unusual claim.
I'm just a bit curious, and not a fan of being told where not to poke my head.

Why would Scum try to lynch a claimed PR?
Reviver is way more unusual than Supersaint. Also, Supersaint doesn't revive itself, it kills the hammer voter.
You can be curious, but when you're rolefishing that's bad.

For the record, I doubt anyone was being serious in claiming.

What reasons do you have to believe they weren't being serious? I don't like the idea of you white-washing a "three shot reviver" claim.
I'm going to be looking closer at your interactions with TierShift in the future.

Because it was before the game started, because neither is a particularly typical role, because claiming Reviver in particular would be a good way to get yourself killed, because they're not stupid.
You may also notice that Muffin didn't exactly claim Supersaint.
Why?

In post 38, Csareo wrote:RVS is over guys. Anaylze the information on the table.
It's better this way. RVS is an avenue to lurking.

I 1000000000% hate this post on a personal level.

YAY TSO

IGMEO: Garmr, Nero Cain, Cho, dave
for not actually saying anything relevant to the nearly 2 pages of the game when they posted.
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Post Post #61  (isolation #4)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:59 am

I was ignoring the Neighbourhood claim because it's not particularly beneficial to out it atm.

Yes, I'm in a Neighbourhood with 3 others and Cho. No, I don't think we can say there's absolutely Scum in the Neighbourhood, though it is likely.

Neighbour claim is indeed completely irrelevant to what's been posted thus far.
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Post Post #62  (isolation #5)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:00 am

In post 60, T S O wrote:This is the first game I have ever seen from Csareo where his opening post was not astoundingly scummy. He must be Town!

Sorry, rolefishing isn't scummy now?
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Post Post #81  (isolation #6)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:16 am

In post 67, T S O wrote:BE's Mind Mafia, page 1, enter Csareo.

He was town in that one. I don't know his alignment in the other.

ahahahahahaha seriously?

In post 65, Thor665 wrote:
In post 61, goodmorning wrote:Yes, I'm in a Neighbourhood with 3 others and Cho. No, I don't think we can say there's absolutely Scum in the Neighbourhood, though it is likely.

Maybe.
It's multi-neighborhood though.
Kind of works with the Masquerade theme I suppose.

I see.

P-EDIT: Should it, though?
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Post Post #117  (isolation #7)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:58 am

In post 88, Csareo wrote:
In post 61, goodmorning wrote:Neighbour claim is indeed completely irrelevant to what's been posted thus far.

If it is irrelevant, then why did you post it? I am also curious as to who you're most suspicious of in your neighborhood.

I was answering Cho's response; I said she hadn't posted anything relevant to the game, she said she'd posted that, and I clarified that it wasn't relevant to what had been posted so far, which is what I meant.
I haven't seen enough to provide a value judgement.

Because it was before the game started, because neither is a particularly typical role, because claiming Reviver in particular would be a good way to get yourself killed, because they're not stupid.
You may also notice that Muffin didn't exactly claim Supersaint.
Why?

Well tiershif self confirmed his role in answering the self revive. He is absolutely off limits for a lynch, as his role is both confirmable and powerful.
And he wont be killed.......... he can self revive.

I'm 99.9999999999% sure that was a good old dose of Tier sarcasm.
If he is what he says he is, which he isn't, best play would be to kill him anyway because no Docs would be on him. So he could revive himself, so what? He could revive any other NK anyway.

In post 89, Csareo wrote:Is anyone else suspicious of the early tunnel on me, and how TSO seemed to fuel it?

Who's tunneling you?

In post 106, Csareo wrote:I've seen town TSO, and this is not town TSO.

I've seen both TSOs, and it's too soon to tell.

In post 108, Csareo wrote:Which is why I thought he might be scum playing a fake claim gambit.

lolololololololololololol ok

In post 111, Csareo wrote:The wagon was established by GM and Boonskies, but quickly gained traction in result to comments that TSO made, him even joining the wagon in its 4th slot.

bold: No, it wasn't.

Am I the only one not hugely fond of Garmr's play rn? I don't know what it is though.
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Post Post #206  (isolation #8)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:41 pm

In post 118, Csareo wrote:Thanks for your cooperation GM.

What cooperation?

In post 119, Csareo wrote:Sorry, tiershift is tunneling me, and you a little, but I found there was more reasoning to your questions.
Even if we disagree on the conclusions.

Tunneling usually implies that you think the person in question is Scum.

Have I indicated such at any point?

Egg is weirdly disconnected.

In post 126, Goofyd00d wrote:Considering 4 is the meta for almost garunteed, I would say 5 people in a hood contains a scum, and maybe even multi factions.

Subversion of site meta is one of the easiest ways to make a Normal more interesting. Again, I'm not planning on drawing any alignment-based conclusions just based on whether someone's in a Neighbourhood.

Muffin. That post ain't shit.

In post 134, TobyLoby wrote:goodmorning, do you think Csareo is scummy, maybe townie, or null? I'm getting an everything from you.

It's pretty Null. I've seen this particular brand of play before, though I haven't played with this particular player, and it is not indicative imo. At least, not yet. Could be getting there.

In post 176, T S O wrote:I somehow end up in a large pissing fest with -someone- in every goddamn Large I participate in d1 and it makes it really fucking unfun.

Why don't you just ignore him then?

I'd find it understandable.

Got any weird feelings on anyone so far?

In post 187, Nero Cain wrote:So when I first read the game I thought Csaro was a lil' to "try hard" but his wagon went rather fast and that worries me but I'd prob be ok with his vig.

What? I don't think he got above L-10 at any point. How is that "fast?"

In post 195, T S O wrote:Thanks for the moral support, guys, I am officially the grumpiest fuck ever to walk the halls of these forums. :/

wlu tso
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Post Post #211  (isolation #9)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:44 pm

In post 207, Csareo wrote:
What cooperation?

Answering my questions without fighting.

The main reason I'm not fighting with you is because you haven't ruined shit for me personally yet.

TSO, however, is fairly justified.

Answer the rest of my post? There was other stuff @you.
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Post Post #213  (isolation #10)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:45 pm

In post 210, Csareo wrote:I can kind of envision Nero's actions as being scummy.
My other top reads are GM and TSO. I'll take my vote off of TSO once he answers my questions.

Top reads? I assume you mean scumreads? Explain them, and explain why you're trying to appease TSO in this post.
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Post Post #218  (isolation #11)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:53 pm

In post 215, Csareo wrote:
In post 213, goodmorning wrote:
In post 210, Csareo wrote:I can kind of envision Nero's actions as being scummy.
My other top reads are GM and TSO. I'll take my vote off of TSO once he answers my questions.

Top reads? I assume you mean scumreads? Explain them, and explain why you're trying to appease TSO in this post.

If you first tell me how I'm appeasing TSO. I am pretty confident the dudes scum.
It's just if I push it any longer I'm going to be hanged.

"If you only answer my questions I'll surely unvote you." If that's not appeasing I don't know what is.
I'll repeat the questions too:
Explain your read on Nero.
Explain your read on me.
Explain your read on TSO.
Explain why you would unvote a scumread just for answering questions.

P-EDIT: Please show me where I've said you're Scum. I'll wait.
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Post Post #228  (isolation #12)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:39 pm

In post 223, Aneninen wrote:Unfortunately, I have no real reads yet. Mostly because of Csareo, who has been drawing away the focus of the game.

You don't think the way people focus on him and what they say is indicative?

@Muffin: It's not explicitly non-Normal.
Do you want to start making relevant posts anytime soon?
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Post Post #239  (isolation #13)  » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:02 pm

In post 230, Muffin wrote:
In post 228, goodmorning wrote:@Muffin: It's not explicitly non-Normal.
Do you want to start making relevant posts anytime soon?

I'm sorry, did you miss the part where I was on Vacation with Limited Access for the last week? Did you miss the part where I'm going to catch up on 10 pages on the plane? How about you cut me some slack, OK Chief?

Every time you post and don't say anything it makes the game one post longer and more daunting, which makes cute baby animals cry.
I wish you a fair amount of luck in your catchup. I think it might be needed the way this game is going.

In post 232, Csareo wrote:Does that help you understand why I might be trying to get off the TSO wagon?

So basically you're concerned that it's making you look bad?
Hmmmmmmmmmm.

explaining Nero snipped and that

So you're scumreading him because he makes jokes? I don't think he's directing anyone anywhere in particular.

- Humor and Misdirection

I really don't see TSO either being humourous or attempting to direct conversation.

- Meta Change

How many games have you played with TSO? Because as far as I can tell I've played in 6 at least with him, not counting any games where either of us was in hydra.
I know a fair amount about his meta and the way it's developed, particularly this new slightly less fucks given style (which I like a bit better than the somewhat abrasive TSO of yesteryear).
I'm not sure whether you do.

- The interaction where he showers me in compliments until you guy's don't

I don't think that happened; or, if it had, that it would be alignment-indicative.

- RVS voting me while also giving me a compliment

1) not sure that was meant as a compliment
2) that's kind of what happens when you RV. The number of times I've randomly voted someone with a "HIIIII" or an alarmingly cheery smiley is far greater than the number of times I've yelled something like "SCUM OMG" or "DEATH TO THE WEST" or something.

- Keeping RVS vote on me after calling me town about a dozen times after

This did happen, but why do you find it scummy?

- Refusing to answer ^

Refusing to answer anything is never a scumtell.

- How others joined my wagon when it became obvious TSO slipped on my meta

How is others joining your wagon indicative of TSO-Scum?

- He actually keeps up with the VI gambit unnecessarily for several posts

I don't think that was a gambit and I don't think he found it unnecessary.

- Thor Votes TSO and says he'll vig me (this needs more looking into)

But what does that have to do with TSO being Scum??

- Refusing to answer my questions and being anti-town

Being anti-Town is also not a scumtell.

P-EDIT: Please show me where I've said you're Scum. I'll wait.

You said you had a read on me of some sort. I'd like to see it explained, yeah?
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Post Post #252  (isolation #14)  » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:20 am

In post 206, goodmorning wrote:
In post 187, Nero Cain wrote:So when I first read the game I thought Csaro was a lil' to "try hard" but his wagon went rather fast and that worries me but I'd prob be ok with his vig.

What? I don't think he got above L-10 at any point. How is that "fast?"
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Post Post #267  (isolation #15)  » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:43 am

@ NERO:

In post 252, goodmorning wrote:
In post 206, goodmorning wrote:
In post 187, Nero Cain wrote:So when I first read the game I thought Csaro was a lil' to "try hard" but his wagon went rather fast and that worries me but I'd prob be ok with his vig.

What? I don't think he got above L-10 at any point. How is that "fast?"


In other news: goofy is flying well below radar, dave is taking safe stances, Garmr still feels weird to me, and several have failed to post.
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Post Post #268  (isolation #16)  » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:44 am

And yes, multiball means multiple scumteams.
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Post Post #328  (isolation #17)  » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:58 pm

In post 295, Goofyd00d wrote:About flying under the radar, I tend to do that when there is a lot of action. I'll soak it up and give some reads later. If you want something specific just ask, however that usually leads to me getting a lot of questions. I'll give some thoughts after work.

Some vague sense of any reads you might have would be helpful.

@dave etc: TSO is frequently angry.

In post 325, T S O wrote:Uhhh, gm - I appreciated your support in those troubling times and all, but I don't remember us playing many games together. I think I can only remember one, actually.

They've been stretched over the full time you've been onsite, so it's only about 1 game/2 months.
I also insta-scumread you in the first 4 and was Scum in one of the latter 2 iirc, so I could believe that you could forget.
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Post Post #349  (isolation #18)  » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:26 pm

muffinnnnn

muffin whyyyyy


So I've found myself defending TSO. That's pretty strong for me. This is where I figure out whether it's because of circumstance or is an actual townread.
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Post Post #365  (isolation #19)  » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:16 am

In post 359, TierShift wrote:
In post 346, Garmr wrote:I'm going to be honest I'm lost now and don't know what to think.
UNVOTE: toby

I don't like this post and I'll research you now.

Good, maybe you'll figure out what it is then.

Looking forward to Izariael's post.

I seem to have concluded that TSO is Town.
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Post Post #399  (isolation #20)  » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:51 pm

In post 384, T S O wrote:what exactly convinced you in the interim time that I was a townread?

I went back through your ISO, then I slept on it, went through again and decided that was it. It's not the strongest townread I've ever had, and it's based on more body of work than any specific post, but it's a townread I feel comfortable with.
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Post Post #438  (isolation #21)  » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:05 pm

In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Goodmorning, – can you explain your townread on TSO?

Like I said, for me it's mainly the overall impression I get from his posts. It's incredibly nonspecific - a dash of tone here, a bit of meta there.

In post 437, Cho wrote:I think I'm fairly town for outing the neighborhood. Scum wouldn't do that.

Sure they would, if they thought it would make them look Town.

Players I am currently uneasy about: Garmr, Thor, Pere, Boonskiies.
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Post Post #450  (isolation #22)  » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:27 pm

In post 441, Izariael wrote:
In post 440, Izariael wrote:
In post 437, Cho wrote:I think I'm fairly town for outing the neighborhood. Scum wouldn't do that.

Sure they would. Being in a neighbourhood isn't alignment-indicative, so it's not really skin off their back to out it, especially if it gets them towncred. I view outing it as null, since I see motivations from both sides of the equation.

Oh shitballs... gm beat me to it I think. I didn't see her post until after :mad:

TWINSIES
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Post Post #453  (isolation #23)  » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:30 pm

...Egg is in this game?

Oh right, the Pere thing at the beginning. Still feel the same?
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Post Post #518  (isolation #24)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:48 pm

In post 484, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 61, goodmorning wrote:I was ignoring the Neighbourhood claim because it's not particularly beneficial to out it atm.

Yes, I'm in a Neighbourhood with 3 others and Cho. No, I don't think we can say there's absolutely Scum in the Neighbourhood, though it is likely.

Neighbour claim is indeed completely irrelevant to what's been posted thus far.

Nothing is irrelevant. Also, why would you claim if it's "not particularly beneficial to out it"? Direct contradiction?

Yeah, the rest of that sentence apparently looked irrelevant to you because it clarifies: neighbour claim was irrelevant to all posts that had been posted so far, which was why I had a problem with Cho.
Just because it's not particularly beneficial doesn't mean it would hurt to confirm it.

Hmmmmm. Debating votes...

Vote: Aeronaut
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Post Post #538  (isolation #25)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:25 pm

In post 519, T S O wrote:
In post 516, T S O wrote:What's your read on Aneninen?

Light Townread.

In post 525, PeregrineV wrote:How does that make sense for town to spend so much time on?

Makes plenty of sense given that I now have a firm townread on the slot.

In post 529, Aneninen wrote:@Everyone
By the way, I have an idea. It's clear that due to the sheer size of the setup, not everyone are interacting with each other. Would it be useful if I tried to make a "graph" about the interaction frequency?

Probably not, but if it's something you want to do then by all means. I just don't think it would really help.

Later, when a Scum is flipped, that sort of thing would be quite useful. Currently? Probably just distraction.


Currently I am reaction testing someone. We'll see how that goes.


P-EDIT:
In post 533, Garmr wrote:@goodmorning
Just curious why vote now and not earlier. You mention people earlier you feel uneasy about but didn't really push on them. I don't really understand a reason to hold back your vote if you find someone suspicious?

I like this question.

I was primarily focused on reading Csareo since he was responding to questions and I could play off the TSO thing.
As far as mentioning my uneasiness on people: one irrelevant post or off gut read does not a good vote make.
I've found I can have difficulty in Larges due to sheer scope of the playerlist, so mentioning people I'm uncomfortable with in the moment is a new thing I'm trying; I should be able to put my focus where I want it and look back to see where I was uncomfortable with AND NOTICED someone in the past.
It's also a good way to mark things I may want to pursue at a later date.
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Post Post #555  (isolation #26)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:59 pm

In post 539, Aeronaut wrote:@Goodmorning Of course it hurts to confirm it. A neighborhood is five people who can talk with each other without everyone else knowing about it, even at night. They are a threat to scum in late game, because once the pile of people is narrowed down, then there could still be two or three people in there, some even confirmed. So by outing yourself right away, you're directly hurting the towns chances.

On the contrary. The existence of a Neighbourhood of such size implies that there is probably a Scum in it (though not definitively, as I've said).
Which means there's a block of 5 that we can attempt to ascertain whether Scum at Night, which leaves us more free to analyse others during the day and not get bitched at for it.

In post 541, Muffin wrote:I would like to know, for my own scumhunting purposes, which players are in a neighbourhood with which others.

Because sometimes neighbourhoods result in weird coordination that can look like a scumteam but is not.

So... yeah.

I for one think there's some mileage in keeping some folks secret.

You can just wait and ask your partners tonight ;]

In post 548, Garmr wrote:
In post 538, goodmorning wrote:I was primarily focused on reading Csareo since he was responding to questions and I could play off the TSO thing.
As far as mentioning my uneasiness on people: one irrelevant post or off gut read does not a good vote make.
I've found I can have difficulty in Larges due to sheer scope of the playerlist, so mentioning people I'm uncomfortable with in the moment is a new thing I'm trying; I should be able to put my focus where I want it and look back to see where I was uncomfortable with AND NOTICED someone in the past.
It's also a good way to mark things I may want to pursue at a later date.

Ok so you saying it's a playstyle thing your trying. It also crossed my mind earlier you might be using the neighborhood to discuss cases and that's why you weren't pushing as hard in thread.

That's not really something I would say is in the scope of a Neighbourhood for me. In non-Newbie games I like to make my thoughts very clear regardless of alignment. Can't do that if only 4 people can read what you're writing.

It got me thinking what warrants a vote to you? Because I use my vote as a pressure tool and I find threatening to vote someone if they don't answer a question can sometimes apply even more pressure to answer. So not voting till this late in the game baffles me.
Can you tell me in your mind what does a vote mean to you and how do you use them?

To me, a vote is only a tiny fraction of what it takes to lynch somebody (and I don't just mean that it's 1/21 of a lynch today). Much more important than voting is finding Scum, explaining why they're Scum, convincing others they're Scum, convincing others they're MORE scummy than anyone else, THEN the vote becomes important. But it's only the culmination of what can be a vast expenditure of words, and it only has importance when it sparks into a wagon.

The fact that I don't see votes as that important is at no time more obvious than when a wagon on me reaches L-1. I sometimes laugh. A lot.

Now, I will say that I recognise how important other people perceive votes to be, which is why you'll often find me on near-deadline vanity wagons. But that's a story for a different time, I think.

ME ME I LIKE TALKING ABOUT ME LOOK IT'S MY EGO IT'S MEEEEEEE

In post 549, PeregrineV wrote:Yeah, he's trying to convince me of total playstyle change from here. viewtopic.php?f=54&t=25487

Ah, AMURIKA. Gooooodddddd timessssssss.

We've played more recently than that, though.

From least to most recent:
Author Mafia
AMURIKA Mafia
Shadows and Lights Mafia
Graveyard Shift

I'm not sure why you'd think meta from early 2013 would be of concern to me, since we've played twice since then.
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Post Post #560  (isolation #27)  » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:54 pm

In post 557, Thor665 wrote:
In post 555, goodmorning wrote:On the contrary. The existence of a Neighbourhood of such size implies that there is probably a Scum in it (though not definitively, as I've said).
In post 541, Muffin wrote:I would like to know, for my own scumhunting purposes, which players are in a neighbourhood with which others.

Because sometimes neighbourhoods result in weird coordination that can look like a scumteam but is not.

So... yeah.

I for one think there's some mileage in keeping some folks secret.

I did a bit of snippage here to put the thoughts together.
Yo, Goodmorning, why can you both believe that the neighborhood(s?) are likely to have scum in them but *also* be in support of keeping them secret?
Like, what's the benefit to town exactly?

Outside possibility of slips, even if they do have Scum in them it's not going to be any more significant an incidence than Scum in the playerlist at large, can be incredibly distracting to Town.

I think it's better to wait a few days.
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Post Post #609  (isolation #28)  » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:30 am

In post 604, PeregrineV wrote:Before I forget-
@goodmorning- I was scum in Amurika, so I had to dodge you. You made it tricky and hard to do.
Two of the games you linked you were an alt or hydra or something.
The last (graveyard) had all around bad play by most of the town, so not using that as meta for this game. Got any more?

Those are the ones we've both been players in at the same time.
You died before I replaced into Timeshift I, and I modded NY167 which you were a player in.

I still don't see why AMURIKA is relevant to this game or what point you're trying to make with it, and in Shadows I was in a hydra which the other partner abandoned after like 3 posts, so it's pretty much just me.
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Post Post #669  (isolation #29)  » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:24 pm

In post 613, PeregrineV wrote:Tunneling is an extremely effective scum tactic used to avoid 90% of the rest of the players. The fact that 50% of your posts here are Csar tunnels is in contrast to the last memorable game with you, in which your town play was easily recognizable.

Assume I take you at your word that Grayfoxx is now a townread for you after all that, what's next on the goodmorning agenda?

I agree tunneling is a thing that can be a useful Scum tactic.
The point I am trying to make is that that game is from a year and a half ago.

Actually I went and reread and most of my D1 posting was focused on joels and AA9, so apparently excessive focus on a limited number of people isn't outside the pale for old me either.

Next on the agenda, as I said to Garmr, is trying to sort the people I've found uncomfortable. Right now I'm most interested in Thor, you, and Boonskiies. Since we're talking, that's probably where I'll go next. I'm getting quite a lot off this multiball bit though, so that's good.

Then I'll be looking at the people who've made me uncomfortable less recently (or more recently, if that happens) and the low posters. People like Tier and Anen will probably just get read without too much effort from me.

And at some point we'll see where this reaction test goes, if anywhere. That could take a while though.

Uncomfortable list now includes Izariael.

In post 668, Aneninen wrote:@Goodmorning. You're talking with PeregrineV. What's your read on him?

I'm still working on that.
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Post Post #711  (isolation #30)  » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:21 am

In post 701, Izariael wrote:
In post 692, Goofyd00d wrote:I was trying to point out that a 5 neighborhood is suspicious in a time of the game where people were trying to deny that the neighborhood even had one mafia any. I wasn't implying this game had to be multiball

(I'm catching up and still at post 601, sorry if this is no longer relevant.)

Correct me if there was a different post you were referencing, but the closest I see to this is goodmorning's post:
In post 61, goodmorning wrote:I was ignoring the Neighbourhood claim because it's not particularly beneficial to out it atm.

Yes, I'm in a Neighbourhood with 3 others and Cho. No, I don't think we can say there's absolutely Scum in the Neighbourhood, though it is likely.

Neighbour claim is indeed completely irrelevant to what's been posted thus far.

in which she doesn't deny the possibility of mafia in a neighbourhood but does not want to scumhunt on the assumption that there is, which I find to be a far townier perspective that what you are saying she said. It's borderline misrep.

This was basically the post I was going to make, so instead of making that post I'm quoting this.


I think perhaps the number of Neighbourhoods would be useful to know, but then I think if it turns out everyone's in a neighbourhood then they could easily have been generated randomly, which would tell us nothing.
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Post Post #715  (isolation #31)  » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:42 am

ey

ey tier

you wanna stop kissing ass for five seconds and read thor again?
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Post Post #782  (isolation #32)  » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:35 pm

In post 722, Thor665 wrote:
In post 715, goodmorning wrote:ey

ey tier

you wanna stop kissing Smurf for five seconds and read thor again?

After he does I look forward to hearing what he should have seen.

Hm.

A neighborhood just got claimed, how are you feeling about that?

Two, actually. Vaguely annoyed.

In post 742, Thor665 wrote:I am holding off on revealing until Goodmorning manages to get back to me with explanations on the fear of revealing and why it is pro-scum in some way.

I've already spoken as much as I want to speak on the subject.
It's a little late now, anyway.

In post 773, Egg wrote:Goodmorning, why would you say you are reaction testing before you get the reaction? Isn't that kind of counterproductive?

Given that I haven't said who I'm reaction testing or how, not at all.

This game is fun.

P-Edit: I don't remember off the top of my head but I think it was probably meta-based.
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Post Post #797  (isolation #33)  » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:49 pm

In post 796, davesaz wrote:
In post 782, goodmorning wrote:
P-Edit: I don't remember off the top of my head but I think it was probably meta-based.

What was the p-edit replying to?

Tier's post right before it.
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Post Post #825  (isolation #34)  » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:48 am

In post 801, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 782, goodmorning wrote:Two, actually. Vaguely annoyed.

Why are you annoyed that two hoods got claimed?

Repeat: I've already spoken about this.
Repeat: I don't care to speak any more about it.

Note to self:
It is not polite to ask Thor to fuck off, even if you say please.

I find myself reminded slightly of NY 169 atm.
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Post Post #827  (isolation #35)  » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:11 am

It is actually a note to Thor, asking him politely to fuck off but not directly so I still have plausible deniability when he inevitably chooses to be offended by it.
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Post Post #828  (isolation #36)  » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:12 am

Does anyone know whether Thor whinges as much as Town as he does as Scum?
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Post Post #858  (isolation #37)  » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:18 pm

In post 850, Nero Cain wrote: I DO agree a lil' bit with Thor that multikill is highly probable but a multiball game seems unlikely. Teams would have to be extremely small.

3v3v15 would be pretty balanced just at base, and 3 isn't such a small team.

In post 853, Thor665 wrote:Townperegrine is known *not* to do those things.

Piffle.

He played exactly like that in Shadows and Lights iirc.

Am meta-ing Thor RIGHT NOW. Will conclude what I conclude when I conclude it.
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Post Post #859  (isolation #38)  » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:33 pm

In post 858, goodmorning wrote:Am meta-ing Thor RIGHT NOW. Will conclude what I conclude when I conclude it.

O554 - Town Thor, no whinge
NY169 - Scum Thor (Casso), whinge
^These are the ones I've seen so they're the ones I've started with.

Moving on, but posting this before I forget.

At any rate, it's not like I haven't had arguments with Thor before. He's a better arguer than I am, probably because he cares more about winning than I do.
I look forward to continuing my trend of being on vanity wagons.
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Post Post #893  (isolation #39)  » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:24 pm

trading vanity for vanity

Vote: Thor

maybe i'm crazy
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Post Post #895  (isolation #40)  » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:34 pm

AIN'T CARE
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Post Post #896  (isolation #41)  » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:35 pm

like, i'm not exactly convinced pere's not scum but i find you quite a lot more so
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Post Post #899  (isolation #42)  » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:47 pm

i don't know why you think i'm going to be particularly coherent on this atm
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Post Post #912  (isolation #43)  » Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:39 am

In post 905, T S O wrote:
In post 893, goodmorning wrote:trading vanity for vanity

Vote: Thor

maybe i'm crazy


gm pls

i don't want to vote anen todayyyy

i'm not convinced he's scum

could just be newer player weirdness

In post 906, TierShift wrote:Idk I like gm's vote somehow

ME TOO OMG
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Post Post #927  (isolation #44)  » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:30 pm

I can't speak of any games with Anen, no (to all who asked).

On Thor is mostly a tone-based read as I think I've made clear. I don't expect anyone to believe/follow me and I'm fine with that (to all others who asked).

I continue my reaction test. I begin to despair of it working.
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Post Post #945  (isolation #45)  » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:51 am

In post 928, Thor665 wrote:If it's a reaction on me - I was planning to ignore you other than to occasionally point out how your vote is useless and that you don't appear to be scumhunting in any functional way at all.

GOLLY GEE MISTER

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU FIGURED ME OUT

I don't have any real need to question anyone at the moment. Reads are forming based on reading, it's all quite fun.

In post 935, Muffin wrote:
In post 927, goodmorning wrote:On Thor is mostly a tone-based read as I think I've made clear.

Is that the best you can come up with?

Were you expecting Thor to fuck up bad? Because I'm not. You may have noticed he's good at this game. He's not going to make any pushes he doesn't think he can justify, he's not going to overstretch his hand, and with this being a Large there's plenty of room to hide in.

I figure if I keep on about it then by the time we hit D9 he'll get lynched. Of course, if he gets NK'd then great, I can move on.

In post 936, davesaz wrote:FWIW, going through reviews of various players. I reviewed some posts of Muffin. I would call this town with some pretty good confidence.

...really?

That's incredibly weak. Muffin has been asking easy questions and flying low, and you want to call that Town?

In post 938, Aneninen wrote:@Goodmorning. What exactly do you want to "reach" with that vote? If you don't provide a case against Thor, I doubt anyone might follow your vote. I also doubt that Thor will be "scared" of your vote.

I don't know what you mean with the first question. To the latter stuff:
In post 927, goodmorning wrote:On Thor is mostly a tone-based read as I think I've made clear. I don't expect anyone to believe/follow me and I'm fine with that (to all others who asked).

If I was trying to scare Thor, I would have wasted a couple days constructing a massive case full of bullshit and yelled it at people until they believed me. It turns out that if you repeat yourself often enough, no matter how many times you get discredited, SOME PEOPLE WILL STILL BELIEVE YOU.
I find that incredible, but it's true. It's happened to me enough times.

I find that Garmr has affirmed himself out of the uncomfortable list.
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Post Post #947  (isolation #46)  » Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:38 am

I'm not stopping scumhunting, as I said to you. I just find that my vanity wagon on you is the best place for my vote for the foreseeable future.
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Post Post #954  (isolation #47)  » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:15 pm

In post 948, Aneninen wrote:@Goodmorning. What if Thor's right? Remember, during my catchup I found PeregrineV scummy too, even if I can't prove it because Thor's vote came earlier.

Right about what? About Pere being Scum?

What does that have to do with Thor being Scum?

In post 949, Muffin wrote:
In post 945, goodmorning wrote:Were you expecting Thor to fuck up bad?

I was expecting something better than "tone" which is basically just a gut read. If you can't come up with more than a "tone" read ( :roll: ) from 35 pages, then maybe there's a better place for your vote, hey?

You didn't really answer the question I was implicitly asking, but that's OK.
I can't say that I expected you to.
And no, it's not a gut read. It's a(n admittedly limited) meta read.

In post 953, Thor665 wrote:If Null or Towny - are any of the counter wagons remotely on scummy players? Vote them then.

You're Scum and all the potential wagons are on Town, is that it?
Did I guess right?

It's OK, you don't have to tell anyone.
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Post Post #957  (isolation #48)  » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:03 pm

You are totally welcome to read the post wherein I linked 2 games.
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Post Post #961  (isolation #49)  » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:05 pm

So we're ALL the assholes here. HOORAYYYYYy
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Post Post #974  (isolation #50)  » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:17 am

In post 964, Aneninen wrote:
In post 954, goodmorning wrote:
In post 948, Aneninen wrote:@Goodmorning. What if Thor's right? Remember, during my catchup I found PeregrineV scummy too, even if I can't prove it because Thor's vote came earlier.

Right about what? About Pere being Scum? 1
What does that have to do with Thor being Scum? 2

(1) Yes
(2) Nothing. Thor's posts in general give me town vibes. However, it's possible that he's bussing or we've got a Multiball. (I saw Thor getting involved in a "1vs1" fight in another game. I voted for the same player as he, but Thor got lynched eventually and he flipped scum. At the end it turned out that the game was a Multiball and I was right about the other player because she was scum in another faction. F-ck that, after Thor's flip I didn't think that there was a scum-vs-scum fight. Had I gone on with my original scumread, we'd have won. I'll remember this story not to make the same mistake again.)

Then why did you ask what you asked? I don't feel Pere as Townish just because I think Thor is Scum.

There must be other factors.
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Post Post #1032  (isolation #51)  » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:29 pm

In post 1030, davesaz wrote:
In post 998, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 856, davesaz wrote:haven't even developed a read on Egg yet.

Why not? You have 30 posts, they have 24. If you think all 24 Egg posts are null, then would like to hear that.

Because a read would require allocating more thought to that slot than I have up to this point. Unlike some people I could mention, I don't do a single read through and instantly pigeonhole all 20 players. That seems a lot more suspicious to me than having few reads.

It's not hard to have a vague idea on most people though.
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Post Post #1077  (isolation #52)  » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:32 pm

In post 1051, Garmr wrote:^ This is more a reason to lynch this guy.

Now I can agree a little bit with the wagon, that post was a bit crap.

In post 1072, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1064, Thor665 wrote:And I told you I was buddying you - so you should react to that or not.

vote:Thor

eyyyyyyyyy vanity wagon got legitttt

@MOD: heyyyyy you missed that vote what

-Fixed
Last edited by Aegor on Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1138  (isolation #53)  » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:14 am

Cannot brain right now because WOO FOOTBALL

Stop posting walls arguing about Axle's TSO read vs Thor's Pere read because those walls are not walls I want to read.

I'm actually pretty sure it's a Scum plot to be distracting and cause apathy.
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Post Post #1200  (isolation #54)  » Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:41 pm

Who would have thought my vanity vote would spark some actual looking into Thor?

I'm rereading today, should have decent reads on people by the end.

P-EDIT: I find daytalk a little unlikely given that the neighbourhoods seem to all be Night-only, unless nobody bothered to share that gem. I'd like to think that someone would have taken the Cabd-NY169 route and gone "yeah we're daytalking masons neighbours so scum probably have daytalk."
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Post Post #1242  (isolation #55)  » Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:04 pm

In post 1219, davesaz wrote:
I'm rereading today, should have decent reads on people by the end.

By the end of what? The game? And what do you mean by decent? Will you be providing anything other than gut / meta reads?

The end of the reread, of course.
I already have provided things other than meta reads; most notably, my read on Csareo & slot.
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Post Post #1260  (isolation #56)  » Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:32 am

In post 1255, Thor665 wrote:Oh, look, none of my town reads have a wagon on them, fancy that.

Do they not have a wagon because you townread them, or do you townread them because they don't have a wagon, I wonder.

In post 1259, Scripten wrote:
In post 1252, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1250, Scripten wrote:I guess I just don't see the link between the size of the scumteam and whether or not the game has multiple scumteams. (Or are we including SKs in that definition?) Or are there other aspects I'm missing?

multiball is traditionally 2 mafia teams and that's the context that I've been using it in. Its a 21 player game and there's only going to be like 5 or 6 scum max. If its a 4 or 5 player team then you know there's not going to be another. If its 2 then you know there's going to be another. 3, maybe.

This is very basic game logic and I'm not sure this is a scum whine or a new player just being new and not understanding.

I've played in games that were larger and had a small scumteam with an SK or two to balance things out on other sites. I'm not wholly aware of normal setups here.

ADDING TO THIS
As a general rule of thumb, the number of non-Town players will be somewhere between 20-30% of the playerlist. There are games with more (think 2-1-6 Micros or insane Large Themes), but that's usually it. So we're looking at a number of antiTown players that will be no less than 4 and no more than 7. If it is 7 it'll be 3-3-1-14, possibly with Vig, to give a fair chance of crosskills (this is because 7 would push the bounds of balance). If it's 4 then it's much more likely to be a single reasonably well-powered scumteam vs a weaker Town. Anything in between could vary pretty drastically.

Multiple 3rd parties are not unheard of but are unusual, so probably not anything like 4-1-1-15.
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Post Post #1264  (isolation #57)  » Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:44 am

In post 1262, The Fonz wrote:
In post 1260, goodmorning wrote:
In post 1255, Thor665 wrote:Oh, look, none of my town reads have a wagon on them, fancy that.

Do they not have a wagon because you townread them, or do you townread them because they don't have a wagon, I wonder.

Do you really wonder? What would be the implications of either?

I don't wonder. I think it's likely to be a coincidence.
The implication of the former would be that Thor has a following, which is a mixed bag as far as the truth is concerned; he did pretty much start the Pere wagon, but does not currently have any real traction.
The implication of the latter would obviously be that Thor was taking the easy route. This isn't necessarily characteristic of Thor as either alignment.

Would you like to ask a more relevant question? Maybe, I dunno, participate a little?
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Post Post #1267  (isolation #58)  » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:25 am

If you just got caught up then why not post some reads? An opinion on Thor vs Pere? An opinion on TSO vs Anen? Literally anything but a weak question about a joke post?

It's sarcasm. My vote is on Thor, there's no need for insinuations. If I thought it was a scumtell I'd have said so.

I've run reaction tests way longer than 5 days. That said, it won't work, but that's because the player in question is gone.

P-EDIT: NO SHIT.
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Post Post #1271  (isolation #59)  » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:33 am

In post 1268, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1260, goodmorning wrote:Do they not have a wagon because you townread them, or do you townread them because they don't have a wagon, I wonder.

:neutral:

Considering the only major wagon that exists is one that I built...what?
I mean, this doesn't even begin to make sense.
Though apparently you sorta agree it doesn't.

I literally cannot even begin to describe how hard this pinged.

Why are you playing so terribly right now?
Should you be replacing out, or is this intentional?

I have no real idea what you're talking about, but if this is an attempt to discredit me then I just got about 10000% more certain that I'm actually right.

In post 1269, T S O wrote:
In post 1267, goodmorning wrote:An opinion on Thor vs Pere? An opinion on TSO vs Anen?

What are yours?

My opinion on the former should be obvious.
I found the latter painful to read but it didn't significantly change my read on either of you.

P-EDIT: Did I miss entire swathes of relevant posting from you?
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Post Post #1273  (isolation #60)  » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:34 am

Oh, just one relevant post. OK.
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Post Post #1277  (isolation #61)  » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:40 am

Ahahahaha, never mind. Thought I'd missed a useful post but really I just missed a post full of WORDS and devoid of much substance.
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Post Post #1278  (isolation #62)  » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:42 am

In post 1272, The Fonz wrote:
In post 1267, goodmorning wrote:
I've run reaction tests way longer than 5 days. That said, it won't work, but that's because the player in question is gone.

Right. So now you can tell us who that player was, what parts of your play were the 'reaction test', and what reactions you expected from scum vs those you expected from town. Get to it.

OH, SASSY EH?

FUCK OFF.

(For anyone else who might be curious, you may want to attempt ISOing me and searching "Toby".)
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Post Post #1288  (isolation #63)  » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:25 am

In post 1279, Thor665 wrote:I sort of feel you're discrediting yourself - you just admitted that your last five days have generated nothing.

Really.


Reeeeeallly.


In post 1281, Thor665 wrote:Walk me through what I'm supposed to see?

You're not supposed to see anything. That's the point.

In post 1285, Thor665 wrote:In that post he did offer many reads and opinions.

I disagree.
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Post Post #1290  (isolation #64)  » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:38 am

I could go through it and explain why I find it underwhelming but 1. WORDS and 2. Thor would probably butt in afterwards.
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Post Post #1317  (isolation #65)  » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:28 pm

In post 1303, davesaz wrote:
In post 1288, goodmorning wrote:
In post 1281, Thor665 wrote:Walk me through what I'm supposed to see?

You're not supposed to see anything. That's the point.

So let me get this straight. You were reaction testing Toby by not communicating? And you expect us to believe that? Or are you just saying that your reaction test involved Toby perhaps as an experimental subject, and you were really looking for the reactions of someone else to that non-communication?

If you were looking for whether there was a response or not, I'd think you would have posted something provocative in order to generate, or not generate, that response. No evidence of that kind of activity with regard to Toby.

Let me guess, the reaction test was saying there was a reaction test? To find out who, if anyone, responded to that? Or aimed at a specific player?

I think it makes a dandy way for scum to deliberately not say anything useful for a few days. From a scum motivation, if someone calls you out on it it gives you an attack point. And if nobody calls you out on it, then you get to skate for a while. I think I like this explanation a lot better than what I've seen in your responses to it.

Sometimes a complete dearth of communication is far more provocative than any words, particularly when one is interacting with every other player. Toby was reasonably active at the time and not someone that I'm aware of having played with, so the perfect candidate.

If you think I haven't been participating then I think you need to reassess.

In the meantime, this Fonz/Nero thing is starting to make me think the people calling multiball might be right.

In post 1315, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1295, Nero Cain wrote:ok well...TBH that case doesn't sway me but ok, lets say that I'm wrong and PV is scum. Who are the non PV scum in this game?

It's Day 1 and my top read is the largest wagon by a vast margin. I currently have no need to entertain compromises or to sideline myself from pointing out how scummy Pere is.

This is bad.

In post 1295, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1291, Thor665 wrote:Nero - scummy for reason stated, but a lesser read than Pere.

What made me go from townish to your second highest scumread?

In post 1297, The Fonz wrote:^ Clear evidence Nero isn't bothering to read the thread


Go back and click that post you're asking me about - it doesn't say what you are asking me to defend it saying.
Holy cats dude, this is annoying and frustrating. You need to pick it up and actually read stuff as opposed to skimming for your name and tossing out one liners - it is NOT helpful.

This is better.
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Post Post #1318  (isolation #66)  » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:29 pm

In post 1316, Aneninen wrote:Happy Scumday, Thor!

FTFY.
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Post Post #1323  (isolation #67)  » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:27 pm

In post 1320, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1317, goodmorning wrote:This is better.

This is the *exact* sort of thing I have been saying to you that you were complaining was discrediting you and making me more scummy.
But when I point out that Nero isn't reading gak and playing poorly suddenly it's "better"
:neutral:
I'm good with the idea of lynching Goodmorning now.

In other news, you also didn't address any questions I asked you in my last big post communicating with you. The one I regret not seeing an answer to was a deeper explanation of saying Fonz wasn't offering reads, and also when, specifically, you decided to get a read off Toby by choosing not to interact with him.

Nero is not actually reading words.
You also are not actually reading words, but it's harder to catch you at it.
I, on the other hand, am actually reading words. I'm just not writing very many. Subtle difference, I know.

That's true. It's because those are pretty much the only two questions you asked. The former is one I'm getting to. The latter is one that I assumed was solvable by inference: I directly interacted with Toby once, so that would have been before I made the decision not to do so, and Toby started getting less active later in the Day, which was after. There was no one post that triggered it, if that's what you're asking.
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Post Post #1329  (isolation #68)  » Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:31 pm

In post 1324, The Fonz wrote:How would you have expected town-Toby to react, had she not been in the process of flaking out of the game? How do you think scum-Toby would have been different?

People tend to be most concerned about themselves, so I would have expected her to notice on a similar timescale regardless of alignment.
However, I think that Town-Toby would have been curious, possibly tried to draw me out with questioning, maybe wondering (as dave) whether I was Scum looking for an excuse not to talk about a specific player.
Scum-Toby might have insinuated the latter, but would have been most likely to fall on more extreme ends of the scale: either paranoia about my "reaction test" or a lack of concern given her lack of inclusion on my list of concern.

There was, of course, the added bonus that an unspecified reaction test can make newbier scum paranoid. Or anyone, really.
On that note, your curiosity about it was interesting. Thor's was even more interesting.
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Post Post #1383  (isolation #69)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:34 am

In post 1333, The Fonz wrote:What reaction tests have you tried in the recent past, and how did those play out?

I don't often reaction test, and I don't remember having done any recently.
I don't particularly want to sift through my old games for hours to find any.

In post 1334, Egg wrote:
Thor665 wrote:If Null or Towny - are any of the counter wagons remotely on scummy players? Vote them then.

Goodmorning wrote:You're Scum and all the potential wagons are on Town, is that it?
Did I guess right?

It's OK, you don't have to tell anyone.

^This is forced as hell. You are clearly grasping at whatever you can find to make Thor look like scum. He's actually right. A week may seem like forever, but if in 3-4 RL days, Pere is still around L-5 like he was at the time of that post (admittedly 3 RL days ago), and he gets rush wagoned and claims something not very lynchable, there aren't really other options at that point without an extreme flash wagon. Or, if maybe the rush wagon doesn't come. Now we are kind of fucked. Really, the three wagons at L-9 that Thor pointed out should be either voting Pere or consolidating if they are sure Pere is town. The time to compromise is now, not 72 hours from deadline.

Did I say, anywhere, that he wasn't right about the voting situation? No. The post was originally going to be something snippy about how I didn't like any of the counterwagons either. I decided sarcastic would be more fun, especially since I'd mentioned that I found those folks Town a bit earlier.
Bolded: I'm not sure I like this assertion. It doesn't read "making sure we all get shit done in a timely manner". It reads "making sure we compromise... onto my top wagon, of course."

In post 1354, Flubbernugget wrote:I remember someone mentioning that TSO could have fought Csaero for the sake of noise, but I don't remember them complaining about the PV\Thor noise. Has my memory failed me?

This is a lot more astute than I gave you credit for. I hadn't actually thought of that.
But I agree.

In post 1367, Boonskiies wrote:VOTE: Pere

I like Thor. I'm gonna trust him.

In which universe does liking someone make them Town?

Ughhh I almost want to lynch you for being useless.

In post 1369, PeregrineV wrote:Unfortunately for you both, since I'm town, and scum being in our hood means it's one of you (or both when multi-ball happens-right, Thor? :wink: ), so hopefully the vig will take care of that tonight.

Why assume these?

In post 1377, The Fonz wrote:
In post 1329, goodmorning wrote:
There was, of course, the added bonus that an unspecified reaction test can make newbier scum paranoid. Or anyone, really.
On that note, your curiosity about it was interesting. Thor's was even more interesting.

Hang, on. Unpack this. "On that note" implies that my curiosity, and Thor's, is in some way related to the fact that reaction tests make newbie scum nervous.

Not really. Sentences are interesting that way.
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Post Post #1442  (isolation #70)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:32 am

I'm rereading still because OMG WORDS.

Can people, when quoting stuff, only quote the relevant bits? PLEASE. Because when you quote a wall but only reply to one sentence in the middle, it makes misunderstandings rampant and puppies cry.
And also gm cry, because I don't need to read the whole post again please why
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Post Post #1480  (isolation #71)  » Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:01 am

I don't think anyone in Axle-Anen-TSO is deliberately misrepping anyone else. Jury's still out on whether they're deliberately WORDS.
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Post Post #1521  (isolation #72)  » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:03 pm

@TSO: I think it's more misread than misrep, iykwim.

In post 1494, Flubbernugget wrote:@Goodmorning: How often do you play larges?

Almost never. I find I get lost in them.
Of all my games, I've played 5 Larges. This is only the second one I've started and the first one I've begun as a single player.
Graveyard Shift (replaced in fairly late because interesting mechanic)
NY 169 (replaced in because Cabd asked nicely)
Shadows and Lights (inned as hydra because Noctan needed a partner and I felt bad)
Lord of the Rings (replaced in about halfway through because I like the source and lots of people were dead)
Author Mafia (replaced in because big names and TS ELIOT WHAT)
This is my 6th Large in 2 years. Make of that what you will.

In post 1496, Flubbernugget wrote:Because I don't like the noise PV and Thor are making over the multiball argument. GM wasn't contributing to that noise, but still made it elsewhere.

I didn't realise that attempting to clarify Csareo's position on TSO could be classified as noise.

Good to know.

In post 1507, PeregrineV wrote:goodmorning is probably best investigated.

lololololol k

@Axle: Who do you find scummy other than TSO?
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Post Post #1526  (isolation #73)  » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:17 pm

This game is the first time I encountered Csareo.
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Post Post #1587  (isolation #74)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:11 pm

In post 1532, T S O wrote:
In post 1526, goodmorning wrote:This game is the first time I encountered Csareo.

Did you think he was town?

When?

In post 1536, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1521, goodmorning wrote:@Axle: Who do you find scummy other than TSO?

are you looking explicitly for my secondary reads, or are you looking for evidence I am actually playing the game.

Explicitly the former.

@Mod: Thor's post broke the page a little, probably a spoiler tag overlapping a quote tag, pls fix.

reeeeeeaaddssssss

reeeeeeeeeeeeeaaddssssssssssss

rreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaddssssssssssssssssss

rrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaadddsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss are cominggg

Right after I finish the last 20 pages or so.
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Post Post #1616  (isolation #75)  » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:46 am

@^: TSO is not likely to flip, much less so to flip Scum.

ANYWAY.

I REALLY WANT A VOTECOUNT OMG

Players who are Town: GrayFoxxx, Garmr, TSO, Tier
Players who are not Town: Thor, Fonz
Players who may be Town: Cho, dave, Flubbernugget, Pere, Scripten
Players who may not be Town: Aeronaut, Axle, Anen, Muffin, Nero
Players who may or may not be Town: Boonskiies, Egg, hephaestus, Izariael

If you'd like an explanation of one of these and I haven't already given it, you're welcome to ask.
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Post Post #1619  (isolation #76)  » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:20 am

I'd much rather be on a Thor or Fonz wagon, but there is a distinct possibility.
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Post Post #1627  (isolation #77)  » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:44 pm

In post 1624, davesaz wrote:Hey, there are reads! I'll take your offer of explanation, please start with the material you're using to read GrayFoxxx and Izariael.

Gray is Town based on my very long interaction with Csareo.
Izariael I'm really not reading either way, that's the Null pile.
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Post Post #1648  (isolation #78)  » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:47 pm

In post 1630, Egg wrote:Goodmorning, how would you define "vanity wagon"?

A wagon that, for any reason, is not likely to reach a lynch, esp. applied to wagons with only one vote on them.

In post 1632, davesaz wrote:
In post 1627, goodmorning wrote:
In post 1624, davesaz wrote:Hey, there are reads! I'll take your offer of explanation, please start with the material you're using to read GrayFoxxx and Izariael.

Gray is Town based on my very long interaction with Csareo.
Izariael I'm really not reading either way, that's the Null pile.

Can you point to something from GrayFoxxx which confirms this read? If not that, can you point to something specific from Csareo and explain why it makes that slot town?

Not from Gray, no. With Csareo it was pretty much cumulative answers to my questions, but I'll go back through tomorrow and pull some quotes for him while I'm doing the Fonz thing for Thor.

I know Izariael is in your null pile. Can you explain the null based on material in the thread? Or explain what's missing?

What's missing is concrete posts.
Izariael has 47 posts right now. I don't remember any of them. Not a single post from Izariael has made a lasting impact.

Barring that, can you point to anything concrete in the thread to explain any of your reads?

I'm going to pretend I don't know what you're implying.
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Post Post #1702  (isolation #79)  » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:40 am

In post 1650, Egg wrote:Even if we call this a joke, you are still making other weak jabs at Thor and that's not like you.

Is it really not like me?

Thor wrote:Considering the only major wagon that exists is one that I built...what?
I mean, this doesn't even begin to make sense.
Though apparently you sorta agree it doesn't.

Why does this "ping so hard"?

If I could describe it then there'd be no need for me to say I couldn't describe it.
I don't know why, just like I don't know why I was pinged by BnB in Shadows and Lights, but I was.

Lol, really? Seemed like a fair request. I was actually a little interested in the answer.

"Get to it" hacked me right off.
You'll find that I did eventually explain at some point.

In post 1697, Boonskiies wrote:prod dodge. oopsie.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Post Post #1786  (isolation #80)  » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:24 am

In post 1780, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1616, goodmorning wrote:@^: TSO is not likely to flip, much less so to flip Scum.


any reason he wont flip scum?

Because he isn't? For a more concrete idea than pure meta: Scum TSO would have given up talking to you/Anen ages ago. Town TSO is far more likely to throw himself at a brick wall like that.

@Nero, TSO: Please stop. If you need to completely ignore each other then fine, but this pissing contest is not helpful.
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Post Post #1802  (isolation #81)  » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:22 pm

In post 1787, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1786, goodmorning wrote:Town TSO is far more likely to throw himself at a brick wall like that.

This is pure meta.

Town anyone is more likely to fall into that trap. That TSO is especially isn't really the point.

In post 1788, Aneninen wrote:@Everyone: does the difference I've written above exist between Mini and Large games?

Yes. Twice as many people results in more than twice as many posts (more responses generated=more responses to responses), it's more exponential sort of but I've not done any math beyond stat for years now so someone else might be better suited to the discussion of exactly how much more it might be expected, mathematically, to be.
Also Larges tend to have longer deadlines than Minis.

In post 1789, Slandaar wrote:
In post 54, goodmorning wrote:Why would Scum try to lynch a claimed PR?

Also, GM, I have an answer your very good question you asked earlier in the game.

Because they are scum and lynching a town PR is beneficial to their win condition.

Now, I know this answer may be a lot to take in but try very hard to understand this difficult concept then let me know what you think about my answer.

It's terribly transparent, trying to lynch a PR. Your answer is too simple - it doesn't take consequences into account.

In post 1796, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1751, Nero Cain wrote:@GM-Why is Foz scum?

Because he hasn't actually done shit. At some point this weekend I'll demonstrate that even his one apparently contributory post was actually useless.

In post 1798, T S O wrote:wait I said I wasn't going to talk about outside games, ignore the above.

nice dig at the end, Nero. Show off your maturity.

ENOUGH

PLEASE
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Post Post #1836  (isolation #82)  » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:06 pm

In post 1803, davesaz wrote:
In post 1648, goodmorning wrote:
Barring that, can you point to anything concrete in the thread to explain any of your reads?

I'm going to pretend I don't know what you're implying.

Explain your reads. I don't listen to meta, I lynch the players who rely too much on it. Because only scum don't explain their reads.
Clear enough for you?

Yeahhhhhhh, "pretend" wasn't in there because I wanted you to explain; if I had I'd have asked you to.
"Pretend" was in there because I was trying not to get annoyed.
"Was" is in the previous sentence because now I am annoyed.

In post 1805, davesaz wrote:
In post 1802, goodmorning wrote:Town anyone is more likely to fall into that trap. That TSO is especially isn't really the point.

I happen to agree with this, though it does start a little in the direction of assuming scum can't tunnel. I think it's more accurate to say that scum do tunnel, but they do it strategically where they're likely to either appear town or get a mislynch. Scum don't generally tunnel randomly, and they don't generally go back to their tunnel after being called on it by town. This analysis counts as a town-leaning factor for TSO.

I didn't mean that he was tunneling. TSO does that regardless. I meant that he was in a discussion with no percentage.

I don't like TSO's attempted use of appeal to his own authority. I have not looked deeply into the reasons it came up, and have no real desire to do so. Even if it were in direct response to something like "your case is crap", using previous results to show he can catch scum (in a good game for him) doesn't give a free pass on proving his case in this game. If someone challenges his case, he needs to be able to back it up. If he can't back it up, admit it was a bad case and move on. Not being able to back a case, and in particular being unwilling to back it, is scummy. Notice I'm not focusing on the AtA itself, but the lack of backing on the case.

Except that it wasn't anything to do with his case. It was a pissing contest with Nero, and only that.

In post 1821, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1802, goodmorning wrote:It's terribly transparent, trying to lynch a PR. Your answer is too simple - it doesn't take consequences into account.

PR's get lynched all the time by town and scum alike. The 'consequences' are what? they may get lynched for it? but it's no different to any other town wagon/lynch they try to push.

Today is Day 1. If you don't get why that makes a difference then perhaps you should try to figure it out.

I'm sorry you replaced into a Scum slot, but sidetracking me with theory discussions is not helpful.
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Post Post #1899  (isolation #83)  » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:56 pm

In post 1837, Flubbernugget wrote:He comes off as scum to you?

Who, Slandaar?
Yes.

@dave: If you think of anything else you'd like to discuss just let me know.

In post 1840, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1836, goodmorning wrote:I didn't mean that he was tunneling. TSO does that regardless. I meant that he was in a discussion with no percentage.

I think I understand what you are saying. On that basis.

What is his percentage in the discussion as town?

There's no percentage in the discussion period. Not as Town, not as Scum, not as TFPTSLOOIA.

@Axle: TSO calls people stupid when he's getting annoyed. None of the quotes you quoted appear to have anything to do with cases.

In post 1854, Slandaar wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 1836, goodmorning wrote:Today is Day 1. If you don't get why that makes a difference then perhaps you should try to figure it out.

So, if scum claims PR D1 they are immune to being lynched bar a cc for D1? What about D2? well I think they have not had long enough as scum can risk one night right? D3? so much suspicion on them that scum wouldn't kill...

Where is this magical line that you actually think PR claims can be lynched? What happens when they claim they are RB'ed or some such?

:]

I know you didn't mention scum claiming PR but it's all the same argument, if you don't think scum try to lynch town PR's then either you think that anyone who tries to lynch a town PR is town (clearly wrong) OR you think no-one tries to lynch them so by extension you cannot lynch scum claiming PR either (bar cc) because obviously you can get it wrong...

You actually think I am going to believe you think scum and by extension NO-ONE would try to lynch PR claims on D1? You are mistaken.

I'm not having this discussion with you any longer.

In post 1836, goodmorning wrote:I'm sorry you replaced into a Scum slot, but sidetracking me with theory discussions is not helpful.

Yes, yes, 'you replaced into a scum slot'. Very original. I assume I will see a well written case by you when I am fully caught up?

If one could write a case well off 6 contentless posts then I already would have. I can only say that what I saw from Aeronaut here was not what I saw from Town-him in NY176, which he also replaced out of. I don't believe meta is particularly convincing to anyone else though, nor should it be.

@Izariael: that post is sweeettt

I look forward to your discussion of "things that are interesting"

In post 1876, Aneninen wrote:
In post 1802, goodmorning wrote:
In post 1796, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1751, Nero Cain wrote:@GM-Why is Foz scum?

Because he hasn't actually done shit. At some point this weekend I'll demonstrate that even his one apparently contributory post was actually useless.

I quick-ISO-ed him and I disagree.

Just a thought - it might be more useful to wait until I've pointed out why he's been useless, but I'll keep this post in mind when he flips Scum.

In post 1895, TierShift wrote:Reading izar's 1875 makes me want to be on the thor wagon.

VOTE: thor

awwww yissssssss
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Post Post #1920  (isolation #84)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:37 am

In post 1917, Slandaar wrote:But seriously; The way she acted during Csareo's time was incredibly scummy. She asked him multitudes of questions and argued lots of what he said because it was easy. It looks good when you argue with someone like Csareo because you will always win and thus come out looking good but at the same time she wasn't pushing the wagon or really doing anything with the questions she asked or points she disputed.

I don't know if you know this, but I IC a lot of Newbie games. I tend to get in that habit when I see people behaving newbishly in games that are not Newbie games.
I wasn't questioning him to win an argument. I was questioning him to clarify his stance on TSO. I wasn't questioning him to build a case on him. I was questioning him to attempt to read him.

You can see this later where she never again questions anyone to such an extent, take Thor she never questions him.

Nobody else has made a point that someone hasn't asked them to clarify, besides which I hardly ever question people like that. I love when it happens though, it's great for reading people, getting down into their thought processes and watching them tick.

Now here is a more physical point;
In post 34, goodmorning wrote:Does Town need to know whether a claimed Reviver can self-Revive? No.
Does Scum? Yes.
Does that make my dislike of your question clearer?

In post 54, goodmorning wrote:You can be curious, but when you're rolefishing that's bad.

In post 62, goodmorning wrote:Sorry, rolefishing isn't scummy now?

She implies scummy. While never voting him.

GM thinks rolefishing is scummy, now think about this response;
In post 1802, goodmorning wrote:It's terribly transparent, trying to lynch a PR. trying to rolefish. Your answer is too simple - it doesn't take consequences into account.

GM is scum. She is thinking on different levels when it suits her.

You're kidding me. The rolefishing set is aimed at a single newb newb newb player (who actually tried to rolefish). The second set is thinking of a hypothetical reasonably experienced set of Scum (who are apparently not taking the "lynch Boonskiies" action).
Of course I'm thinking on different levels - one of them is labelled "Inexperience Challenged."

In post 1918, Thor665 wrote:@Goodmorning - as long as we're discussing things, I would like to see you analyze the Thor wagon as it currently exists and express your thoughts on its current movement and what you think about it.

If you're asking me for any kind of VCA... I don't do that. If you're asking me to discuss the stated reasoning for each vote on your wagon and whether that looks kosher then I'll ask you to do the same for the Pere wagon.
Just let me know which it is.
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Post Post #1997  (isolation #85)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:08 pm

In post 1921, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1920, goodmorning wrote:Nobody else has made a point that someone hasn't asked them to clarify, besides which I hardly ever question people like that. I love when it happens though, it's great for reading people, getting down into their thought processes and watching them tick.

So you feel good about how everyone else has answered those questions?

Well, primarily the stances that I could be able to question-clarify in this way would be yours on Pere and Anen/Axle on TSO.
I don't want to question you on Pere because I think you'd turn it into an argument, and that would defeat the purpose.
I don't want to question Anen/Axle on TSO because I don't hate myself enough.
It's less me feeling good about people asking and answering and more me having very good reasons not to ask.

In post 1920, goodmorning wrote:
In post 1918, Thor665 wrote:@Goodmorning - as long as we're discussing things, I would like to see you analyze the Thor wagon as it currently exists and express your thoughts on its current movement and what you think about it.

If you're asking me for any kind of VCA... I don't do that. If you're asking me to discuss the stated reasoning for each vote on your wagon and whether that looks kosher then I'll ask you to do the same for the Pere wagon.
Just let me know which it is.

I have already done that for the Pere wagon.
Yes, I'd love to see you do it for mine.

Alright, it's on the list. I'm at home all day tomorrow so...

In post 1925, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1920, goodmorning wrote:I wasn't questioning him to win an argument. I was questioning him to clarify his stance on TSO. I wasn't questioning him to build a case on him. I was questioning him to attempt to read him.

If you find this valuable, asking people lots of questions to help attain a read, why have you not done this with anyone else?

The situation has to be right. Also the reasons addressed above.

In post 1920, goodmorning wrote:You're kidding me. The rolefishing set is aimed at a single newb newb newb player (who actually tried to rolefish). The second set is thinking of a hypothetical reasonably experienced set of Scum (who are apparently not taking the "lynch Boonskiies" action).
Of course I'm thinking on different levels - one of them is labelled "Inexperience Challenged."

So, what you actually asked a newbie was: Why would a hypothetical reasonably experienced set of scum try to lynch PR's?

How is a newbie supposed to know what reasonably experienced scum do or don't do?

I don't think that is what you were asking.

...what.

No, I addressed the concept of rolefishing, an event that actually occurred, with a newbie. I addressed the concept of lynching a claimed PR, an event that was purely hypothetical, with you, who are not a newbie. How in the fuck did you get the interpretation you got out of that???

In post 1928, davesaz wrote:Wait, what newbie was GM asking a question of?

I wasn't. Slandaar is attempting to sow confusion.

@GM, same question, how do you define newbie?

A player who is new.

In post 1937, davesaz wrote:How about something more specific than that. # games? # months? Behavior?

It's pretty hard to be specific, but behaviour, pretty much. Newbishness tends to stick out like a sore thumb.

In post 1986, Muffin wrote:Barring vig, why would a scum player get vigged? Is this gm slipping that she knows thor is town?

No, gm is slipping that she's not 100% confident in a mostly tone-based read. WHAT A SHOCK

If it makes anyone feel better, I stopped reading Anen's and Axle's posts a long time ago. Skim over them but if I'm not mentioned nothing sticks.

Can we notice what Slandaar's done so far? He's tunneled me with theory questions and got into the multiball discussion, neither of which is particularly productive. Someone who thinks he's Town: why?
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Post Post #2008  (isolation #86)  » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:20 am

In post 2002, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1997, goodmorning wrote:Can we notice what Slandaar's done so far? He's tunneled me with theory questions and got into the multiball discussion, neither of which is particularly productive. Someone who thinks he's Town: why?

I am not particularly town reading him.
That said, you should be careful with all those rocks in that glass house - you are pretty much on open record for being next to useless today, so...where are you getting off complaining that the (now the second) new guy "isn't doing enough"?
It is really weird and hypocritical and not even that logical.

I'm at least trying to figure shit out and am spamming neither theory nor misreps. I didn't say Slandaar's not doing enough (though Fonz isn't doing enough but back to that later). I said that what Slandaar is doing has far more Scum motivation behind it. To come in on a tunnel, to ask only theory questions, to misrep people to a ridiculous extent, to join a discussion that was better off dead and buried - all of those are actions that come from a Scum place.

But let me go down the playerlist here, since you seem to think I'm being useless (the ones in green are apparently more useful than I am; orange is about the same usefulness as me and red is less so):
Spoiler: OH LOOK EVERYONE WILL HATE ME NOW
1. Slandaar/Aeronaut
2. AxleGreaser/Alina
3. Aneninen
4. Boonskiies
5. WBOCampire1104/Cho
6. GrayFoxxxx/Csareo
7. davesaz
8. Egg
9. Garmr
10. goodmorning
11. flubbernugget/Goofyd00d
12. hephaestus
13. Izariael
14. Muffin
15. Nero Cain
16. PeregrineV
17. Scripten
18. T S O (was more useful when he wasn't throwing a fit)
19. Thor665
20. TierShift
21. The Fonz/TobyLoby

Thor: Am I just imagining that half the playerlist is more useless than I am?
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Post Post #2047  (isolation #87)  » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:47 am

In post 2034, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1997, goodmorning wrote:The situation has to be right. Also the reasons addressed above.

Yeah we know the situation: Newbie with weak logic you can look good arguing against.

I picked up on this recently. I call it the 'I'm a scumbag trying to look good' tell. I don't think there was any point to what you were arguing with him, you pointed out lots of things you disagreed with asked a bunch of questions he replaced and then you call him town.

Doesn't make a lot of sense does it? Also; Did you ever explain that townread?

There's a reason that we call transparency of thought process pro-Town. Transparency of Csareo's thought process, more than anything, was what I hoped to achieve when I started questioning. Transparency of Csareo's thought process, more than anything, is what I hope will be my legacy - to you, to all the playerlist, as I leave the game.

To have played in this game is to have felt a very personal sense of kinship with each and every player. In leaving it, I do so with this hope: may Thor get lynched really hard, in all the days ahead.

In post 2039, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2008, goodmorning wrote:Thor: Am I just imagining that half the playerlist is more useless than I am?

I think so, I put you as more useless than quite a few you have marked differently.

I have the strangest feeling this has to do with my weak case on you. I've done some shit since that, haven't you been paying attention?

In post 2044, TierShift wrote:Gm, why am I of such little interest to you? What is your read on me?

I've sorted you into the Town pile and stopped worrying about you. You've dropped off in usefulness gradually though.
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Post Post #2081  (isolation #88)  » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:11 pm

In post 2052, Egg wrote:It just feels like you've had a lot of "Thor is scum because <Insert Weak Jab>" where weak jab turns out to be a joke. What are your serious and strong reasons for scum reading Thor?

Where have I said I have strong reasons for scumreading Thor? I think his tone is off.

I thought I'd made all that pretty clear.

In post 2063, Egg wrote:
Goodmorning wrote:Almost never. I find I get lost in them.
Of all my games, I've played 5 Larges. This is only the second one I've started and the first one I've begun as a single player.
Graveyard Shift (replaced in fairly late because interesting mechanic)
NY 169 (replaced in because Cabd asked nicely)
Shadows and Lights (inned as hydra because Noctan needed a partner and I felt bad)
Lord of the Rings (replaced in about halfway through because I like the source and lots of people were dead)
Author Mafia (replaced in because big names and TS ELIOT WHAT)
This is my 6th Large in 2 years. Make of that what you will.

What made you join this one?

Aegor asked nicely.

In post 2064, Egg wrote:Oh, and I debated a little on whether I should do this, but I see a lot of discussion on it and it's already out there and I kind of want to squash it.

I DOUBT VERY VERY SERIOUSLY THAT BOON IS A COP. I HAVE A REASON. I WILL NOT ELABORATE. I WILL NOT RESPOND TO ANYTHING ANYONE SAYS IN RESPONSE TO THIS.

lolololololololololololololol

In post 2069, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2047, goodmorning wrote:There's a reason that we call transparency of thought process pro-Town.

really do tell
/sarcasm not @you well maybe but not.

Seeing how people are thinking means you can see if there are places where the logic is fuzzed or self-serving in any way. To say exactly what you're thinking and exactly why you think it, clearly and concisely, is far more convincing of others that you're Town than any argument, self-meta, or murky scumhunting.
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Post Post #2085  (isolation #89)  » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:28 pm

In post 2084, TierShift wrote:Why are you so certain in your townread on me gm?

We've just come out of that game in which you were Scum. It's rooted in that.
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Post Post #2095  (isolation #90)  » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:53 pm

In post 2088, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2085, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2084, TierShift wrote:Why are you so certain in your townread on me gm?

We've just come out of that game in which you were Scum. It's rooted in that.

and you've never seen anyone roll scum twice in row, and think, <hmmm I had better play this one very differently?>

or

<gee I played crap in the last one I did this this and this wrong...>

now thats transparency, I know exactly what your thinking and why GM.

He was in four scumgames at once at the time. Seeing the foundations of someone's game buckle a bit from exhaustion is sort of illuminating.
I certainly wasn't thinking that it was too improbable to be true, if that's what you meant. Million-to-one chances seem to crop up nine times out of ten.

In post 2089, TierShift wrote:
In post 2085, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2084, TierShift wrote:Why are you so certain in your townread on me gm?

We've just come out of that game in which you were Scum. It's rooted in that.

Well, I don't remember you reading me easily there.

I didn't, but I definitely learnt something from it.

In post 2091, Egg wrote:Goodmorning, I had the impression Thor was your biggest scum read, or at least close. And I assumed there would be strong reasons why. Apparently I am mistaken.

He definitely is, and the reason is strong to me, but as I said, I don't expect it to convince anyone else. Apparently you are forgetting what I've posted. (not surprisingly, considering the amount of WORDS that have taken place thus far).
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Post Post #2098  (isolation #91)  » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:08 pm

In post 2096, Egg wrote:Seems like you'd want to convince us to lynch your top scum read. That's kind of townplay101.

Are you suggesting that Scum-me would not want my top scumread lynched? Because that's not really a very good argument.

No, I can wait. Someone like Cabd will eventually replace in and agree with me if I'm right, and then we can watch the cults of personality duelling which will be super interesting.

Well, that's vaguely how 169 worked anyway. Nobody had much of a case on him there either beyond the fact that he was hiding behind their hydra dissonance. And badfeels. Glorious feelings.

Come to think of it, I should go back and see how Thor reacted to me in that game, though I suspect I mightn't get much out of it given that the outing as Mason wasn't too subtle.

Man I was obsessed with them.
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Post Post #2099  (isolation #92)  » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:08 pm

In post 1290, goodmorning wrote:I could go through it and explain why I find [Fonz's singular content post] underwhelming but 1. WORDS and 2. Thor would probably butt in afterwards.

Spoiler: the post in question
In post 1227, The Fonz wrote:
In post 810, Egg wrote:Alright, one more short burst. Getting tired though.

Muffin's attack on Pere reads fake. Doesn't mean Pere is town if muffin is scum though. There's always the chance of tow scum groups, SK, or distancing/bussing.


I'd really like you to unpack this, because Muffin's PerV push feels like the best push I've seen in this game. It rubs me up the wrong way that you attack another player's vote on the wagon you're on in a way that explicitly calls the attacking player scum, but then bend over backwards to point out this doesn't weaken your vote on the wagon in any way.

On that note, think PerV is scummy, mostly on the basis of the muffin case, not the Thor case. Thor needs to stop arguing with scum reads, and OH MY GOD when PerV said 'Let's re-start' I thought he meant move past that argument, not bloody well let's have the same argument all over again. It is mildly suspicious that PerV pointed out the potential 'slip' in Thor then admitted he didn't think slipping is something Thor would do as soon as he's challenged on it.

Scripten's gut town. I think Izariael is town who genuinely believes a 'strong null read' is a thing (LOL). Davesaz is really glaringly posting lots of IIoA. Newbie though. Consider this a warning to be more proactive. Nero's playing a very safe game, wouldn't have a problem lynching him, but PerV is better.

In post 861, T S O wrote:that readslist is realllly surface deep, goes through just about every cliche there is and fencesits on some people

in other words, Aneninen is still scum.


Do you expect a readlist on day one of a large to have non-fencesitty opinions on everyone? I mean, LOATPs are kinda generally bad unless doing PoE. But still.

On Boon, the point is that if he's town, scum now knows he's not vanilla anyway. But there's the risk that if he's scum, he's sliding by on a non-specific power claim. I'd lean no claim, just because I think he seems like a bad enough player that not knowing whether he has a major or minor PR if he's town is a significant problem for scum. Bullets to the face of people who have hinted power are bad. *Cough*Thor*Cough*

In post 1121, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1119, The Fonz wrote:At p20. Two things.

Csareo was scumhunting derpily. One of those last two words is alignment relevant.

My predecessor's Nero vote was decent, but I'm going to Vote: PeregrineV because holy shit was #385 bad.

Why/how was it bad?

I see
skating over stuff (not deep thoughts for PereV)
What was the intent?
Too much is funny? (more room for fun when you know alignments?)


Primarily, calling Aneninen's voting reason 'fake' yet doing jack shit about this. Questions TSO's obviously not-serious vote. The only other part of that post that is in any way content is in saying Csareo's posts are 'refreshingly direct' when he kind of hints that he might have a problem with Thor but asks an empty question instead, the obvious answer to which is 'because he's fucking terrible.' It's a glaring filler post.

Other reasons why I'm happy with this: 385 is followed by a post taking issue with Garmr calling Csareo 'town with high chance of idiocy.' Note, not saying anything about the actual read, but objecting to the characterisation as a derp. This is while, as Muffin points out, he's voting Scrip. #501 is a list of all the players far too early to actually have a read on everyone. Combine the LOATP with the silent vote, and he's trying to look like he's posting a decent amount of content, but doing nothing to advance the game. Basically Muffin's #521 is excellent. Then he spends basically the rest of the game to date arguing with Thor but not voting him. His vote has been parked for 35 pages.

Note also PerV calling Boonskies "Probably scum" in #501 and doing precisely jack shit about this before and since. Explanation in #501 of Scripten suspicion also doesn't tally with it being just a sheep (it's also semantics). If the reasoning in #501 was real, why didn't he provide it when previously asked instead of going 'it was a sheep?' This is particularly bad since he attacked Thor by accusing him of doing exactly that in #571.

So let's break this up. We'll start with the reads thing.

Spoiler: Fonz's 'reads' extrapolated and discussed
? = read not explicitly stated

Muffin - Town? "Muffin's PerV push feels like the best push I've seen in this game."
Did Muffin even push Pere? I was under the impression that Muffin was sheeping Thor on that.
Went and looked; is "these are scumposts"; is "why are you scumhunting in places other than where your vote is" which is not a good argument at all imo; is "your vote sucks"; and is "you sheeped Izariael and then didn't bother backing it up after you read the game" which is fine but a bit lacking given that this is Pere we're talking about. Then some semantic arguments which no.
Better than my "case" and Thor's by far, but by no means would I say it's "the best."
Muffin is bussing Anen anyways based on but whatever.

Pere - scummy. (note that this is not quite the same thing as "Scum") "On that note, think PerV is scummy, mostly on the basis of the muffin case, not the Thor case."
See above for that discussion. There's lots of Pere stuff at the end too but I'll touch on that a little later.

Egg - Scum/Lean Scum? paraphrasing: Egg: Muffin's Pere stuff looks fake. Fonz: don't call it fake, modified chainsaw omg.
Fonz doesn't really discuss why finding another player's argument/vote on a wagon you're on bad "rubs [him] up the wrong way." I really don't think it makes sense. It's like those people who get weirded out when their scumreads vote for each other, only that doesn't make sense either.

Scripten - Town. "Scripten's gut town."
It's a gut read. That hardly counts.

Izariael - Town.
There's no real reason given here.

Dave - iffy? "Davesaz is really glaringly posting lots of IIoA. Newbie though. Consider this a warning to be more proactive."
ugh gross
take a fucking stance

Nero - iffy? "Nero's playing a very safe game, wouldn't have a problem lynching him"
BUT IS HE SCUM TO YOU???

So there are some reads expressed and some reads one can extrapolate, but how many of them are actually useful?
Muffin and Pere. That's it.
He gave 3 reads. We can extrapolate 4 more. That's 1/3 of the playerlist. Only 2 of those reads are useful, and only 1 of those 2 is a read he actually stated.
Now, the Pere read is incredibly detailed. But there are no details provided on others. 13 people are ignored whilst more than half a wallpost is dedicated to making a thorough case on the leading wagon. Why? (Hint: it's ass-covering)

Now to discuss the middle section: he asks TSO "did you expect a D1 readslist in a large to not be fencesitty?"
This question is later characterised as "question[ing] TSO over Anen"
That looks like an exaggeration to me. Why exaggerate?

He also takes a paragraph to talk about whether or not Boon should fullclaim and I can't even.

Who was it that was calling this post contentful? Because all I see is ass-covering, wishywashiness, and WORDS.
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Post Post #2103  (isolation #93)  » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:48 pm

In post 2100, Egg wrote:No. I said trying to get us to lynch your top scum read is townplay101. You are not playing that way because you are not playing a town game.

Exactly. You're saying "trying to get your top scumread lynched = Town" therefore "not trying to get your top scumread lynched = not Town." Am I misinterpreting what you're saying?
I want to know why you think I would be trying harder to get Thor lynched as Town than as Scum.

In post 2101, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2099, goodmorning wrote:Who was it that was calling this post contentful?

I did.

It's not. It's a tunnel with window dressing on it.

In post 2102, Egg wrote:
goodmorning wrote: Are you suggesting that Scum-me would not want my top scumread lynched?

Why would scum you have a top scum read?

Top "scumread" then. Are you suggesting that Scum-me would not want my top "scumread" lynched?
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Post Post #2127  (isolation #94)  » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:27 am

In post 2119, The Fonz wrote:coming in and pushing a case hard =/= tunnelling.

No, but coming in and pushing a case hard whilst not doing anything else is.

In post 2125, Slandaar wrote:TSO had a point although went over the top. GM didn't have a point to it.

Why would I come into a fresh discussion with an agenda?

In post 927, goodmorning wrote:On Thor is mostly a tone-based read as I think I've made clear. I don't expect anyone to believe/follow me and I'm fine with that (to all others who asked).

In post 945, goodmorning wrote:Were you expecting Thor to fuck up bad? Because I'm not. You may have noticed he's good at this game. He's not going to make any pushes he doesn't think he can justify, he's not going to overstretch his hand, and with this being a Large there's plenty of room to hide in.

After going over NY169, I found that I said a similar thing about the same player there:
In post 5549, goodmorning wrote:
In post 5536, Casso the King of Seals wrote:
In post 5529, MC Maraca wrote:Ffery. There was a good case on casso made by GM, and I for one am quite trusting it, and as for mara, well, SHE made that vote, not me.

Vote: MC Maraca

Call this vote on you symbolic because the GM case on me is shit and everyone knows it.

oh nacho

it's not the greatest case ever and is no thing of beauty but you two are good players, there's not likely a good case to be had on you

but you are scum.

I mean, self-meta and all that, and you have only my word for it that I wasn't planning this all along or whatever, but there it is. I have apparently done it before.
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Post Post #2137  (isolation #95)  » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:42 pm

BUTTING IN

Look at all the people who just sheeped Thor or left him the hell alone. That's why Scum-me would not. Sheeping Thor would be the easy route, unimpeachable. I've said I get lost in Larges...
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Post Post #2144  (isolation #96)  » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:03 pm

In post 2138, TierShift wrote:I'M NOT ASKING YOU

THAT'S WHY I SAID I WAS BUTTING IN

BECAUSE I DID

GET REKT

In post 2139, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2127, goodmorning wrote:Why would I come into a fresh discussion with an agenda?

Is this a serious question?

Lets talk hypothetically; If you are scum do you think you would have an agenda while entering a fresh discussion?

I begin to see the problem here. One of us is wrong about my alignment. Hmmmmm.

The only agenda I have, as either alignment, is to figure things out.
I don't come into questioning intending anything else.

In post 2141, Egg wrote:
Goodmorning wrote:Exactly. You're saying "trying to get your top scumread lynched = Town" therefore "not trying to get your top scumread lynched = not Town." Am I misinterpreting what you're saying?
I want to know why you think I would be trying harder to get Thor lynched as Town than as Scum.

This is pretty basic. If you are town, you think he is scum. Lynching him is how you win. If you are scum, it's not really a big deal if he doesn't get lynched. Why are we discussing theory that is newbie game level?

It is, on the other hand, a reasonably good Scum goal to drive people up to claim, if not lynch. I think the problem here is that you're assuming I play a certain way, which is obviously not the case.

Goodmorning wrote:Top "scumread" then. Are you suggesting that Scum-me would not want my top "scumread" lynched?

If you are scum, you already know if he is scum, barring other factions. If he doesn't get lynched, you can hide behind the same vote tomorrow.

Are you suggesting that votes are the only way people express opinions in this game?

Goodmorning wrote:Look at all the people who just sheeped Thor or left him the hell alone. That's why Scum-me would not. Sheeping Thor would be the easy route, unimpeachable. I've said I get lost in Larges...

But people see sheep as scum. Mafia101[/quote]
Except they really don't. I say again, look at the Thor sheeping. How many of Thor's sheep are being scumread for sheeping? (Hint: none)
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Post Post #2153  (isolation #97)  » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:45 pm

In post 2149, TierShift wrote:
In post 2144, goodmorning wrote:The only agenda I have, as either alignment, is to figure things out.

Why would you have an agenda to figure things out as scum?

You've never PR hunted? Besides which it's equally helpful to Scum to notice people behaving scummily (especially townies).

@Garmr: Well, I'm glad you do but I think you're in a distinct minority there.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong on that though.
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Post Post #2158  (isolation #98)  » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:21 pm

Townies that look scummy are townies that Scum can make eat a lynch. I thought that would be obvious.
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Post Post #2186  (isolation #99)  » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:01 am

In post 2182, Slandaar wrote:Also I don't have time to get quotes but basically GM said to someone Tier I think to reread Thors posts when Tier said he thought Thor was town. This is off because all GM has is 'tone' so what was Tier supposed to be rereading for?

I may try explain this better later. With quotes it's clearer.

For overall effect, obviously.

In post 2184, The Fonz wrote:
In post 2127, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2119, The Fonz wrote:coming in and pushing a case hard =/= tunnelling.

No, but coming in and pushing a case hard whilst not doing anything else is.

No. What else are you supposed to do other than find scum and push them?

Finding more than one is usually A+. Having opinions on multiple things is usually helpful as well.
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Post Post #2254  (isolation #100)  » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:17 pm

In post 2195, davesaz wrote:
In post 2144, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2139, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2127, goodmorning wrote:Why would I come into a fresh discussion with an agenda?

Is this a serious question?

Lets talk hypothetically; If you are scum do you think you would have an agenda while entering a fresh discussion?

I begin to see the problem here. One of us is wrong about my alignment. Hmmmmm.

The only agenda I have, as either alignment, is to figure things out.
I don't come into questioning intending anything else.

This does not quite ring true. Sure, maybe at a high level you're figuring things out, but that's not the only factor in deciding whether to enter a discussion and how. Scum can and do butt in when a townie is after their buddy, for example. Disrupting the questioning process is a way to help a buddy without openly defending them. So information gathering as the explanation for entering a discussion is really shallow.

I began the questioning process, so I'm really not sure where you're going with this.

In post 2208, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2063, Egg wrote:When I find a scum read early on Day 1

Perhaps a walk through the mind of Egg on how you arrived at a scum read on me.

In the interest of full disclosure, you voted me in post before I ever entered the game, so am keenly interested in the process of how you "find a scum read".

OOH BURN

Why is Pere the leading wagon again?

Oh, I remember. It's because Thor said so.

In post 2235, Shiro wrote:gosh I am still on page 22 sorry people this will take longer than expected :/

and this keep going it was page 88 when I started DX

It's only going to get worse as deadline gets closer. Catching up as quickly as you possibly can is your only hope :]
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Post Post #2255  (isolation #101)  » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:17 pm

I actually sort of think Muffin is Town now though, it's been a weird couple days.
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Post Post #2280  (isolation #102)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:14 am

In post 2258, beastcharizard wrote:He did nothing. And that is the truth.

inb4 "AMISHED OMG"

Null read, ftr.

In post 2266, davesaz wrote:
In post 2254, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2195, davesaz wrote:
In post 2144, goodmorning wrote:The only agenda I have, as either alignment, is to figure things out.
I don't come into questioning intending anything else.

This does not quite ring true. Sure, maybe at a high level you're figuring things out, but that's not the only factor in deciding whether to enter a discussion and how. Scum can and do butt in when a townie is after their buddy, for example. Disrupting the questioning process is a way to help a buddy without openly defending them. So information gathering as the explanation for entering a discussion is really shallow.

I began the questioning process, so I'm really not sure where you're going with this.

You are saying things that are not true. (Unless it is true that you never have an agenda, do you really mean that?)
Why does this need to be explained?
What alignment says things that aren't true?

Apparently we aren't speaking the same language. What I was bolding is above. It is not even slightly the same as what you were bolding.
(Oh, and as for "helping a buddy..." I rarely do so. I had a bad habit of always "townreading" them but I've broken that. They can sink or swim on their own, and attempting to help them only gets you dragged down too. I am a bit bossy in QT usually though.)

@VC: I love vanity voting more than anyone else, but the time has come; Slandaar, Anen, Muffin, Grayfox, beast, and dave should probably pick a wagon.
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Post Post #2282  (isolation #103)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:15 am

In post 2281, Slandaar wrote:I lynch PR claims D1 quite often it works out well for me.

Not that it really matters, the point is that obviously town and scum alike often lynch claimed PR's D1 this means a generic statement of scum wouldn't try to lynch claimed PR's is obviously wrong and I believe GM knows this.

Just because you would doesn't mean most people would.
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Post Post #2286  (isolation #104)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:36 am

In post 2284, Slandaar wrote:GM while you did your little dance earlier you never managed to answer this and I would like you to:
In post 2157, Slandaar wrote:You don't think a scum agenda is to look active? or to look town?

Maybe for some people, but for me looking active doesn't matter and looking Town just comes along with figuring out the game; if you figure it out and make valid observations, people are going to townread you, even if the Scum you catch are Town.
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Post Post #2291  (isolation #105)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:48 am

In post 2290, Egg wrote:Goodmorning, that's not even Amished because he's not complaining or attacking heph. Why did you feel the need to shoot it down before it was brought up?

Saying "he didn't do shit" isn't complaining or attacking?
Then why do I feel so complained about and attacked when people accuse me of not doing shit?

Because Amished is a shit tell that doesn't work is why.
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Post Post #2343  (isolation #106)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:15 pm

[obligatory prodding at Thor post]
Maybe the Anen wagon should move to Axle?

Better yet, let's lynch Thor.[/obligatory prodding at Thor post]
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Post Post #2355  (isolation #107)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:49 pm

In post 2345, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2343, goodmorning wrote:Maybe the Anen wagon should move to Axle?

so does that come with reasons, or is it a feeling post?

It's a joke, I thought the prodding Thor tags would make that clear.

In post 2347, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2343, goodmorning wrote:[obligatory prodding at Thor post]
Maybe the Anen wagon should move to Axle?

Better yet, let's lynch Thor.[/obligatory prodding at Thor post]

Shhhh, I'm scumhunting you by not interacting with you.

I feel like if I annoy you enough maybe you'll slip up?
Probably just wishful thinking though.
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Post Post #2374  (isolation #108)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:16 pm

In post 2364, TierShift wrote:CAN THE AXLE TSO SHITSTORM STOP

VOTE: pere
pere you are not in my huge pool of townreads and I feel super comfortable sheeping egg and anen is not scum :3

This is also a reminder to myself that I should stop putting stock in TSO's reads.

this post is oddly disquieting
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Post Post #2379  (isolation #109)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:58 pm

If I knew then it wouldn't be odd.
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Post Post #2391  (isolation #110)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:57 pm

In post 2381, TierShift wrote:
In post 2379, goodmorning wrote:If I knew then it wouldn't be odd.

Why is everything so vague with you this game?

idk, i just feel vague?
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Post Post #2408  (isolation #111)  » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:40 am

In post 2393, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1997, goodmorning wrote:Alright, it's on the list. I'm at home all day tomorrow so...

You promised to do it Tuesday, functionally.

That is true, sort of. Anyway, when I hit thing 2 in the list I didn't really want to do it, so I just didn't. I'll bump yours up and do it tomorrow.

In post 2397, TierShift wrote:Gm likes capslock!

Sometimes.

In post 2402, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2286, goodmorning wrote:Maybe for some people, but for me looking active doesn't matter and looking Town just comes along with figuring out the game; if you figure it out and make valid observations, people are going to townread you, even if the Scum you catch are Town.

I think you try to give the impression you are scumhunting to look town - looking town is absolutely an agenda for scum.

As I said, I don't bother with that because it comes along with the figuring-things-out.

I mean the fact is you are perfectly describing your play regarding Csareo. Trying to figure out if he is a PR or a mislynch when the heat was on him - arguing every tiny little thing for no real reason and then deciding he was town later after he was replaced and the heat had gone.

Coincidence?

Considering that I was trying to figure out his alignment rather than his role, whatever you are seeing is not a coincidence - it's confbias.

Why did you need that last huge wall you posted when you had him as town?

If you mean , I was still walking through his questioning, pruning out the weak points. I didn't read him as Town before I finished questioning him.
If you mean some other post... post tags for clarity pls.

Why didn't you ever vote Csareo?

Because I never thought he was Scum. He was a nullread with a weird case on TSO whom I questioned for thought process and found it present.
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Post Post #2410  (isolation #112)  » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:44 am

Saying I'm home on a day doesn't preclude the possibility that I won't be in the mood for Mafia.
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Post Post #2432  (isolation #113)  » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:11 pm

In post 2413, Thor665 wrote:I'm not asking for an essay, I'm asking how you feel about the wagon you are currently on considering the votes that have supported it.

I'm pretty sure I've mentioned in this game that I don't understand why people get weirded out by other people on the same wagons, so if that's your whole point in asking me the question then it's kind of a waste of time.

It shouldn't require a day, and even if you lazed off that day you should have been able to swing it sometime within the following 72 hours.

I definitely just said I'd do it tomorrow, so why not stop being a dick about it?

In post 2415, davesaz wrote:I'm trying to poke gm and she seems to be ignoring me.

Quote it and I'll get back to you.

In post 2420, Shiro wrote:He was the only one trying to get town to do anythimg early on and kept it up.

Just going to point out that it's really easy to ask for activity from people.

Has GM noted anything similar to that ? If I recall Tier has and he was in the same game I speak of.

Not really, but then I haven't really been reading his posts since the whole TSO thing.
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Post Post #2502  (isolation #114)  » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:30 pm

In post 2438, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2408, goodmorning wrote:If you mean 239, I was still walking through his questioning, pruning out the weak points. I didn't read him as Town before I finished questioning him.

That's the one.

Let's get this straight then. You didn't have a townread before finishing questioning but he never answered/responded to your huge wall post... where exactly did this townread come from then?
In post 2408, goodmorning wrote:Because I never thought he was Scum. He was a nullread with a weird case on TSO whom I questioned for thought process and found it present.

Yes well you never said it explicictly but...
In post 62, goodmorning wrote:Sorry, rolefishing isn't scummy now?

This does have implications...

Have a good morning :]

I reread, what else? Scummy doesn't have to mean Scum.
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Post Post #2503  (isolation #115)  » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:31 pm

In post 2445, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2432, goodmorning wrote:I definitely just said I'd do it tomorrow, so why not stop being a Smurf about it?

Because this is the second time. I was a total believer of you the first time. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Repeat: I never said outright that I would do it tuesday. I did say outright that I would do it today.
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Post Post #2504  (isolation #116)  » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:33 pm

In post 2452, Garmr wrote:Pff and like pere wagon is any good becuase of a empty sheep vote he posted when he first started which half your fucking wagon has done and your bull shit multiscum theory shit which if you take a step back is pathetic and shit. Funny how thor townreads everyone on the pere wagon.

garmr is now my favourite
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Post Post #2505  (isolation #117)  » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:34 pm

In post 2447, Thor665 wrote:Also I don't care, really - since I'm about the only player who tried during Day 1...

effort isn't indicative of alignment
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Post Post #2506  (isolation #118)  » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:35 pm

In post 2457, AxleGreaser wrote:Do you actually town read GoodMorning's vanity push on you?

so vain

that song is probably about that wagon
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Post Post #2507  (isolation #119)  » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:40 pm

shiro probably slightly swamped town

deadline is set at 1 day ~3.5 hours, not 6 tier you devious bastard

will vote pere if i absolutely have to but would rather not
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Post Post #2542  (isolation #120)  » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:36 am

In post 2532, Thor665 wrote:Hey, GM, I'm keeping you in mind.

lolk

Well, it's not happening now. If we're all alive Tomorrow it'll happen then.
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Post Post #2618  (isolation #121)  » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:29 pm

In post 2575, Boonskiies wrote:There was a lot of conversation in my neighborhood last night, and due to the outcomes of the night, there hasto be scum in my neighborhood.

I don't necessarily agree.

So, Anen kill thoughts. Could have been Vigged for convoluted D1, SK'd for same/similar, or NK'd by Scum. If NK'd by Scum, there is likely a Scum in my Neighbourhood. Suspect if Vig then one of Axle/TSO/me/Thor would have been target. ofc all this out the window if multiball - but multiball unlikely.
Egg: framing Thor? Or Thor framing Thor?
Thor is Scum anyway.

In post 2593, AxleGreaser wrote:Good morning is scummy for the reasons stated yesterday when I voted him.

I don't remember that happening, but OK.
I went and looked for it and you were sheeping Slaandar basically? I mean, it's fine, but it's a bit weak.
Well, my case against Thor is weak, but at least it's mine.

Nero looks a bit more flippant than I'd like today.

In post 2608, Izariael wrote:Also, the fact that you didn't even read his plan enough to be able to describe it for everyone kind of shows the attentiveness you had in the hood last night. Just sayin'. Didn't really feel like you were all there. It's okay though, you can go back to read it now while I get to paraphrasing the events that transpired in our hood last night. In particular, I think you might want to look at step 2 in his plan, since you missed your opportunity to follow through on it. Shiro as well. "Terrible" things may result from that.

I personally think that plan was a bit of a terrible idea, but I would like to hear from you on the subject of the thing I brought up, if you don't mind.

In post 2613, Garmr wrote:@people in ane's hood
I got some questions for people in boons neighborhood Did annienen read of boon change in the qt?
Do you think iz is scum?
Is that everything of importance?

Not that I'm aware of.
Not sure. Depends on some stuff.
For now it is.

In post 2614, Izariael wrote:My end of day 1 was far less involved than I would have liked, though I don't know that a greater participation on my part could have prevented Pere's mislynch, unfortunately. I mean, I was townreading him within his first 5 posts, but I don't think I could have been convincing enough about why I was townreading him to get his wagon disbanded, because it was almost entirely meta from my last game with him.

To be quite honest, it wouldn't have helped. Several people were townreading Pere quite a bit. The main issue was that no-one wanted to vote Thor with me or Anen with TSO.

So, people who like to analyse wagons: 2/3 D1 wagons have flipped Town. Is the third Town or Scum?

Vote: Thor
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Post Post #2800  (isolation #122)  » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:49 am

In post 2619, Boonskiies wrote:Thor's town. And it's multiball...

Thor's not Town, and the second kill could have come from an SK or a Vig rather than a 2nd scumteam.

In post 2626, Boonskiies wrote:During the night Iz brought up how there is 'probably' a fourth neighborhood. He also said he is new to neighborhoods and doesn't know the ideal play in these situations. Those two don't match up. Why would you think there is probably a fourth neighborhood if you are new to them unless one of your scum partners are in it, and they told you during the night?

He literally said that the word "corner" implied that there were four.
Now, I don't know why he assumes rooms are square/rectangular, but - oh wait. Rooms ARE usually square/rectangular.
Do you not pay attention to the words people say???

In post 2630, Izariael wrote:
In post 2618, goodmorning wrote:I personally think that plan was a bit of a terrible idea, but I would like to hear from you on the subject of the thing I brought up, if you don't mind.

I'm glad you brought it up, as I was planning to do so anyway. I never got a chance to touch on it before the thread lock because of Halloween stuff. That means that everyone here who isn't in our hood gets a really vague post (which you can hopefully follow soundly):

yesssss i love vague references that confuse other people

I will admit, your final post of the night left me a bit confused, as I didn't understand what was tipping you off in such a manner. Anen's post that followed it was able to shed light on it for me though, and I will say I have to agree. It looks that way because I was not properly applying my own stance to the full scenario. I've been basing most of my thoughts around NOT assuming it's guaranteed. But then suddenly my comment looked as though I said WAS guaranteed. It was a disconnect of logic that unfortunately pervades pretty much everything I said about the topic last night and on Day 1. To clarify, my stance is the former - NOT guaranteed. That is how I will be operating and you, Boonskiies and Shiro can hold me to that.

That's not really what I meant. I meant that you seemed to have knowledge of the composition, if you catch my drift?

You're welcome to follow through with the terrible plan, and heck, I would probably endorse it after seeing the angle you are approaching it from.

No, it genuinely wasn't that great of a plan. I like where I'm at right now.

Also, I appreciate your vagueness on the matter, especially given how Boonskiies is launching out of the Day 2 gate...

That's actually giving me a lot of pause on him.

In post 2635, Izariael wrote:I think goodmorning and I are on the same page of wanting to keep the details of our discussion within the neighborhood.

This is so, for the present. Certain details may make it necessary to more openly discuss at some point but if we can veil it for now then that's for the better.

In post 2636, beastcharizard wrote:Who is sheepable?

There really isn't anyone sheepable this game, though you're welcome to sheep me as I slowly begin to substantiate my Thor vote.

In post 2642, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 2634, Boonskiies wrote:Axle's voting me even though I've made it pretty obvious that I'm a PR. Interesting. I'll hop on a wagon that starts on Axle if no one sees Iz as scum. @Flubb - Thank you. You also just got finished with my last scum game, and will be able to tell if I'm scum or not pretty easily probably.

Yeah this claim is a carbon copy of your tracker fakeclaim.

This is interesting. Can you quote that here?

In post 2645, Flubbernugget wrote:Iz how come you don't have a read on boons?

Why ask Izariael and not me?

In post 2655, TierShift wrote:I'm yet to form an opinion on boon's push on iz and his reaction to it. It all reads a bit vague to me. Is there any reason the plan boon was talking about cannot be fully disclosed?

I'd like everyone to weigh in first but since I don't plan to do that plan I don't see any reason why it shouldn't.

I've always seen being bullheaded as a town characteristic until recently a scum player used that to completely catch me off-guard. (GM knows!) It's an easy way to not contribute and I'll meta now.

I literally do not know anything about Tier anymore.

In post 2660, Shiro wrote:I dunno I think I am way too noob for those big game.

Ahahahaha, me too.

Well with that said I can reveal Anen's plan:
Everyone was to put the word terrible in their first post if they agreed with the plan. We were then all going to vote Izariael because Neighbourhood stuff. It wasn't that well thought out, I don't think.

In post 2669, Scripten wrote:
In post 2666, Garmr wrote:So you did a short meta on me. Can you point out the games you read and how far you actually read into them?

Not on you, but on Axle. What I saw from other town games of his looked consistent with his game here. Meta isn't perfect, but it was enough to figure out which to vote.

In post 2667, Garmr wrote:Also you said he might be town how is that not a town read? Sounds like a null-town read to me.


I don't equate a null-town read as a town read. I felt that you two are most likely not aligned with one another and that you were the more likely scum.

Scripten could pretty easily be Scum this game, I think.

In post 2681, T S O wrote:It still hasn't really sunk in for me that Aneninen flipped town.

I have no idea where to go from here.

You could vote Thor with me. Or, and this is even better, you could do a couple ISOs and go from there.

In post 2696, Thor665 wrote:Shiro is scum due to gut and wagon placement.

eyyyyyyyyyyyyyy welcome to the weak case club

i'm goodmorning and i founded this shit

In post 2707, Slandaar wrote:VOTE: Shiro

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

In post 2715, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2707, Slandaar wrote:VOTE: Shiro

:neutral:

interestinggggggg

In post 2719, Shiro wrote:Yea but like what happens when Shiro flips town?

Probably the same as happened when Pere flipped Town: no-one cares.

In post 2741, Flubbernugget wrote:If gm is here some commentary after Shiro's would probably help sort this out too.

tbh it's not great. If the stuff earlier in this post doesn't clarify what you wanted then ask me again.

In post 2752, Boonskiies wrote:Good morning thinks you scum slipped also. Your speculation wasn't genuine.

I am trying to have a conversation on the subject. You are flinging shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.

In post 2754, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2752, Boonskiies wrote:Good morning thinks you scum slipped also. Your speculation wasn't genuine.

and goodmornings opinion is important to you because since post becuase you now read Gm as town for what reason?

OH SHIT

SOME SHIT IS GOING DOWN NOW

In post 2768, T S O wrote:How conclusive -is- the slip?

Not very, or I wouldn't have asked to discuss it.

In post 2769, Izariael wrote:I've been touting that we shouldn't assume scum will be in each hood, which is the stance I believe in. However, the stance that scum would know who was in each neighborhood on Night 1 made an assumption: there was scum in every hood to know of its existence. The two don't line up, and there was a distinct disconnect in reasoning that permeated the entirety of my actions and statements on the matter, both in Day 1 and during Night 1. goodmorning commented that it looked like a scumslip, which I hadn't even understood why until Aneninen spoke up just before the start of Day 2. I never had a chance to continue the discussion in neighborhood thread before Day 2 started, otherwise I think this would likely not have come up, or at least not be monopolizing as much of the Day 2 play as it is.

This, basically.
Iz said that the scum would know (not could know, which would be different) based on N1 conversation the contents of each Neighbourhood, which assumes Scum in each Neighbourhood.

In post 2777, Slandaar wrote:Move along people, nothing to see here, it's not a scumslip.

Goodmorning, I hear you are the instigator of this accusation, please, step into my office for a minute :]

I'm not going to dignify this with a response, except to say that I'm not going to dignify it with a response.

Maybe we can lynch Slandaar today. He clearly isn't interested in actually being helpful.
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Post Post #2804  (isolation #123)  » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:57 am

Oh, a Thor lynch. But I'll take what I can get.
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Post Post #2808  (isolation #124)  » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:37 am

In post 2805, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2800, goodmorning wrote:Maybe we can lynch Slandaar today. He clearly isn't interested in actually being helpful.

You would like that eh? :]
Are you telling me town wouldn't ever assume 1 scum in each hood?

Izariael had already demonstrated that he wasn't.

In post 2807, Shiro wrote:@Boon

If you think the slip is legit and Iz is scum how can you town read thor ? In theory if the slip is legit thor being the lone survivor has to be scum in your mind since Iz slip implies 1 scum in its hood.

I think the easiest answer to this is that both Boon and Thor are Scum.
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Post Post #2813  (isolation #125)  » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:25 pm

In post 2810, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2808, goodmorning wrote:Izariael had already demonstrated that he wasn't.

He was for the second statement.

So, we have him saying to not assume scum in the hoods and then assuming it. I can see town doing that especially with the large sized hoods because even though you shouldn't it is easy to assume there is. What is the issue? He did something he said you shouldn't do? no-one ever does that eh? People will say you shouldn't smoke and still smoke themselves.

Which is why I said it looked like a scumslip and, rather than assume it was (the jury is still out), decided to have a conversation about it. I'm getting a little annoyed that you seem to see only what you want to see in my posting.

In post 2811, Thor665 wrote:@GM - that wall...I'm impressed by its size while saying nothing.

You were impressed by Fonz's nothing wall and called it something, now you're impressed with my something wall and call it nothing? I'm impressed by your ability to redefine words.

Describe why you found me not being impressed with Slandaar's vote to be 'interesting'. I don't think you found it interesting at all and were just making noises - please prove me wrong.

Well, the most obvious answer is that you've found him townish in the past, expressed suspicion of Shiro, he votes Shiro, suddenly you have an iffy feeling about something?
I'll grant that it was a naked vote, but it's very interesting because it's you displaying a change in tune based on something you probably wouldn't have batted an eyelash at yesterday. From a change, we divine the motivation behind it. From motivation... and so on.

In post 2812, Boonskiies wrote:SK (which I do include as Multiball, GM...)

I really don't want to get into the definition war, but that's really not what multiball means. This is the only time I'm going to talk about it though.
Also, could you stop speculating about the setup and start speculating about people's roles?

I'm retracting my Thor town read.

Which you never explained in the first place, so why should anyone care?
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Post Post #2852  (isolation #126)  » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:09 am

In post 2830, Slandaar wrote:Day 2:
In post 2462, Shiro wrote:Thor can I ask you something ? I think I understand your reason behind Pere wagoon but why wouldnt scum pere back off when he had the chance ? I mean he had a few chances biggest being the one where it was pointed that there was a misundersating with what multball meant. Why wouldn't he step away and spare himself all this trouble ? He was clearly losing the argument anyway.

He thinks he understands the case but feels Peregrine would do 'insert random action' if he were scum which, he didn't, thus he asks Thor about this. It completely reads like scum who wants to take as little responsibility as possible. He isn't arguing the case or agreeing with it just making some mundane point and his final conclusion was unclear - he voted PV. (Which somewhat relates to the Day 1 point (lack of accusation) and also what will be the Day 3 point so stay tuned!).

To me that reads like a newb in over his head as either alignment. What makes you read it as Scum specifically?

Related somewhat I really like this method of posting cases :]

It does look sort of fun.

In post 2837, Slandaar wrote:Lets take GM her argument on Thor is tone. (I would use Shiro but ha you have to wait) You can't accuse her for her argument it's so safe. And that is her only argument. Then take this scumslip look how safe she is. She is trying to say she wanted input on it as she was unsure. Town just accuse of a scumslip, kind of what Boon is doing with his posting. GM has taken the safe 'I better not push this without everyone's approval' stance.

I have no words for the amount of headdesk that has occurred here.
I'm not interested in anyone else's opinion on what may or may not have been a slip. I am interested in clarifying Izariael's possible slip with Izariael only.
Boon is not interested in the actual words in people's posts. He, like you, is pushing a case based on what he wants people to have said.

You were not this aggravating to play with last time we encountered each other.

On Thor: Thor spent most of D1 whingeing about people not joining the Pere wagon, an action which is cheap and easy. He failed to provide concrete stances on pretty much anyone else. He has spent most of D2 thus far taking potshots at me, an action he scumread when it came from me, and having a vague gut read on Shiro, an action he scumread when it came from me.

Thor being alive is still making me so very very tired.
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Post Post #2855  (isolation #127)  » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:01 pm

I forgot the whole "pursuing useless multiball discussion and shitting up the thread with said useless multiball discussion" in my last post but that's probably a given.

Spoiler: Thor's D1 reads
In post 376, Thor665 wrote:
In post 373, Izariael wrote:
In post 371, Thor665 wrote:And I townread Scripten.

Could you elaborate a bit? What are you seeing that I'm not?

Well, your presented case on him is pretty paper thin as stands, so it's not like you're even seeing anything.
My read on him is more one of gut and 'I agree with that' but I like how he singled out Tier as looking town and didn't mention GM - which is where I'm at and feels a logical town place to be rather than a scum looking to toss out some easy town reads.

ftr Scripten's reads were few, naked, and noncommittal.

In post 477, Thor665 wrote:
In post 463, T S O wrote:Does anyone want to explain why Pere's actually scum, without attached mindless rhetoric? I don't get it/I'm too lazy to read it.

For lack of participation, awkward sheeping, and general lack of buying into the game.

This literally is the exact words I would use to describe Pere's general playstyle.

In post 632, Thor665 wrote:
In post 627, PeregrineV wrote:My opinion on Thor:
In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:19. Thor665- early townread, but then downhill (slowly) from there, as he votes opposite my opinion. Kind of used to that, so not a full on scumread for that at this point.
The worst Thor post was calling this game multiball ( and ) for pretty much no reason (because it's 21 players?!?). Should there turn out to be 2 scumteams, I'll probably strongly advocate for a Thor lynch. Until then, I'll go back and forth with and about him trying to figure out if he is town that I just don't get or scum trying to trick me. Always fun.

Thor, what do you think of my opinion on you?

That it is scummy, unsupported, a double standard (triple, really) and lazy whilst being used as a smokescreen for doing nothing.
Also - that you cannot even justify it when asked to.

Just going to point out this, especially in conjunction with Thor's earlier Scripten townread.
Pere: opinions on all 20 players
Scripten: opinions on 4 players
Pere: attempts to discuss reasoning behind reads
Scripten: doesn't attempt to discuss reasoning behind reads

In post 641, Thor665 wrote:
In post 640, T S O wrote:What are your thoughts on Aneninen?

I find him scummy.

No explanation.

In post 643, Thor665 wrote:
In post 642, davesaz wrote:Since when is one RVS vote a wagon?

I have always refered to it as such and have no idea why people wish to argue about it every time I do.

What do you call a one vote wagon?

A one vote?

What about two votes? Is that a wagon, or is that two votes, or is it a tandem bicycle or what?

Why are you even debating the definition with me when it is clear what I was talking about whether or not you agree with my word choice?
Yes - you are well past the time to do some work.

Dave is a scum read now too.

So strong, so wow.

In post 735, Thor665 wrote:
In post 734, TierShift wrote:Are you serious? Why is iza's behaviour scummy? (As in, why are scum nore likely to do it than town, don't give a dumb answer)

The only reason that unexplained reads are scummy is because they are easily changeable.
That is the core definition of a null read as well.
I will agree that Izzy is making big noise about how well explained his null read was - but it doesn't change what a null read is nor does it change the only issue with unexplained reads.
Therefore, he's doing something, calling it townish, and complaining that someone is doing something different and calling it scummy - while blind to the fact that it is the same type of pro-scum play.
Making him either town who is dangerous to have in the game due to inability to read below the surface or scum.
Both making him a viable lynch option to me.

Totally not wishy-washy.

In post 831, Thor665 wrote:My Neighborhood is me, Pere, and Egg.
Egg gave me slight town vibes already.

Totally not vague.

In post 1022, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1012, PeregrineV wrote:Considering I have little idea on where you stand on the other 19 players, you could be not-lazy and tell us who is scum with me.


Aeronaut - lurksack
AxleGrease - poor logic, no clear opinion beyond that. Probably scumish.
Aneninen - No idea, would not oppose lynch, would not support lynch.
Boonskiies - lurksack, begrudingly shifting to town due to Dave, but still a useless slot.
Cho - Lurksack.
GrayFoxxxx - Lurksack.
davesaz - Townish
Egg - Townish
Garmr - Townish
goodmorning - terrible...alignment uncertain ;) Meh, I'd help lynch her and consider it worthwhile probably.
Goofyd00d - Lurksack (mild town on prior to derping out and replace)
hephaestus - burning newb - no real vibe yet, still trying to even get him to commit to opinions.
Izariael - Newb, mild scum...very mild.
Muffin - Not fond of hard Thor defense. Call it mildly mild on the scum side.
Nero Cain - Townish
Scripten - I can remember having an opinion on him but can't recall what it is. If I was asked about him I'd ISO myself and repeat whatever I said last (townish?)
T S O - Townish
TierShift - Townish
TobyLoby - Lurksack.

And then, prompted by Pere, we get to the pinnacle of scumhunting.
Did I say scumhunting? I meant vague non-reads.


There's literally nothing anywhere here that he couldn't just go "oh, I changed my mind" or "oh, I don't remember that" except the Pere thing.

People who townread Thor: please, please explain why.

P-Edit: When I say "concrete," I don't mean running down a list with vague wishy-washiness. Assigning a value to someone is not a concrete stance, it's just a stance. Saying Garmr (for instance) is "Townish" - what does that even mean? Why is he townish? Your ISO mentions him once before that list. Meanwhile you wrote essays on Scripten but don't remember your read on him? Prior to your "Townish" read on Tier you'd fought with him about Izariael and it seemed to leave you cold. Where did that one come from?

Every single stance you've taken is weak, weak, weak. You led a tunnel on a townie and otherwise lack in substance.
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Post Post #2857  (isolation #128)  » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:07 pm

In post 2856, Boonskiies wrote:Just because his stances are weak doesn't mean he's scum necessarily. I mean, look at what I've done this game, and I'm 100% town.

Thor is playing smoke and mirrors. Thor does not do that as Town. You do.

I'm not touching the town claim with a 10' bargepole.
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Post Post #2892  (isolation #129)  » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:36 pm

In post 2860, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2855, goodmorning wrote:When I say "concrete," I don't mean running down a list with vague wishy-washiness. Assigning a value to someone is not a concrete stance, it's just a stance. Saying Garmr (for instance) is "Townish" - what does that even mean? Why is he townish? Your ISO mentions him once before that list. Meanwhile you wrote essays on Scripten but don't remember your read on him? Prior to your "Townish" read on Tier you'd fought with him about Izariael and it seemed to leave you cold. Where did that one come from?

So, concrete is "providing reasons" but you also don't like the other players I "provided reasons" on and will call that weak.
Them goalposts - they are a movin'

None of your Scripten essays took a hard stance on him; you mainly repeated "it's gut and I like his [4 gut] reads" a bunch of times.
Meanwhile I'm pointing out that you're being inconsistent and not doing much scumhunting and you're choosing to focus on semantics and attempting to paint my argument as fallacious.

In post 2861, Thor665 wrote:@GM - actually, go to a town game I'm in. Show me how I supplied "concrete" reads there per your current definition.
If you can I'll self-vote.

I'm not doing this for several reasons.
1. I don't hate myself that much.
2. You post SO MANY POSTS.
3. I don't want to.
4. It's not that relevant.
5. It's a waste of time and energy.
6. You wouldn't selfvote even if I did.
7. I wouldn't want you to selfvote even if I did.
8. You're going to waste time responding to this list instead of to my accusations because I've caught you and you think you can get out of it.

In post 2863, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2852, goodmorning wrote:I'm not interested in anyone else's opinion on what may or may not have been a slip. I am interested in clarifying Izariael's possible slip with Izariael only.

I will respond properly to this post at some point.
I find this line very very sly.

I found the line about you not having seen what I said very sly, considering you didn't see what Izariael said either.

In post 2864, Muffin wrote:I'm slowly but surely looking at the Pere wagon.

Maybe when you look at Thor you'll notice the utter lack of anything useful.

In post 2867, T S O wrote:I don't know if me "always acting" is a good thing or a bad thing.

Vote: Boonskiies

Your awful jump is, quite certainly, a bad thing.

TSO is Town and this post is a good thing.

In post 2870, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 1511, Boonskiies wrote:God damn it. I'm not going to be able to keep checking up on this.

I'm at L-3 now. If I'm dead when I check up on this late tonight, whatever. I'm a PR. Do with it what you will. This town's helpless regardless, and this wagon is probably epicly scum driven.

At least in this game there's only one player I'm terrified of making it to lylo.

Hmmmm. That's not as similar as I was imagining it was, though there are some elements that match up.

In post 2878, TierShift wrote:
In post 2876, Izariael wrote:VOTE: Boonskiies

His last four posts and Flubber's fakeclaim meta () are the tipping points for me. :igmeou:

I haven't caught up yet, but this shit needs lynching.
Flubber"s 2870 should NOT be a reason for you to vote boon. Boon's last 4 posts are not scummy to me. Please explain how they are.

VOTE: iza

Tier. Tier I can't. Tier no. Tier don't do this shit. Not now.

In post 2889, TierShift wrote:I'm warning you, thor. You're getting scarily close to.a townread!

tier ffs why

why
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Post Post #2893  (isolation #130)  » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:46 pm

READSLIST UPDATE:
Players who are Town: GrayFoxxx, Garmr, TSO
Players who are not Town: Thor, Slandaar
Players who may be Town: Shiro, dave, Flubbernugget, Muffin
Players who may not be Town: Axle, Nero, Fonz, Tier
Players who may or may not be Town: Boonskiies, beastcharizard, Izariael, Scripten

As always, if you'd like an explanation of one of these and I haven't already given it, you're welcome to ask.
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Post Post #2919  (isolation #131)  » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:17 am

In post 2894, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2892, goodmorning wrote:I found the line about you not having seen what I said very sly, considering you didn't see what Izariael said either.

How would I see it in your hood qt?

Do you remember the context in which you said that line? If not, there's no point to this.

In post 2899, Boonskiies wrote:A Thor lynch for me would be informational for me... I didn't really read like any of day 1. I just want a lynch to happen.

Do you see that there's something of a disconnect in your thought process here?
How would a Thor lynch be informational if you haven't read anything?

In post 2909, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2892, goodmorning wrote:8. You're going to waste time responding to this list instead of to my accusations because I've caught you and you think you can get out of it.

Except I don't need to - your failure to advance your case with any reasoning is all the ammunition I need to call it terrible and ignore it.

HEY LOOK I WAS RIGHT
YOU IGNORED THE PART OF THE POST IN WHICH I PROVIDED EVIDENCE THAT YOU'VE DONE LITTLE, AND THAT LITTLE NOT MAKING MUCH SENSE
AND YOU IGNORED IT IN FAVOUR OF A CHEAP DISCREDIT

HOW MUCH MORE ATTENTION-GRABBING DO I HAVE TO MAKE THIS: IS ANYONE AT ALL TOWNREADING THOR RIGHT NOW? FUCKING EXPLAIN IT.

In post 2892, goodmorning wrote:tier ffs why

why

Why not? You, the person who believes it the most, can't even be arsed to provide basic meta evidence that your claim holds any water at all. Why should you expect anyone else to give a fig? I mean, does this method work for you elsewhere as a wagon pushing system?

I don't plan to go digging through mountains of posts for meta points which no-one will believe anyway. I don't like to randomly change playing fields just because the other team wants to. I don't think that you'd accept it even if I did. The last time I tried to bring meta evidence you said "well I can't tell the difference" and that was that. I'm not wasting my time.
That is also not what I meant when I said "why". If it had been a question there would have been punctuation involved.

If you can't put together a scum case on someone you want to lynch that is far more of a problem. i.e. GM's entire game thus far today. :lol:

This would be far funnier if I hadn't just spent quite a bit of time pointing out how utterly useless you've been acting.

In post 2907, Boonskiies wrote:Town two shot bulletproof neighbor.

Hm. This doesn't really explain the neighbourhood conversation about whether anyone was worth protecting unless that was an exceedingly clumsy bluff as well.
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Post Post #2948  (isolation #132)  » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:23 am

In post 2925, TierShift wrote:
In post 2892, goodmorning wrote:Tier. Tier I can't. Tier no. Tier don't do this shit. Not now.

Read the actual fucking post and see iza's just trying to find reasons to justify him being on boon, instead of those reasons naturally causing him to be.

This is less about Izariael and more about you.
Besides which I think he was explaining in a way which is non-indicative. If you feel it's ass-covery that's fine, but I don't. Boon's posts were also somewhat scummy but that's not really where I'm going either.

In post 2889, TierShift wrote:I'm warning you, thor. You're getting scarily close to.a townread!

tier ffs why

why

If this is a question:
1. I think you're scum
2. A boonskiies vote would have been so easy[/quote]
It wasn't. That said, why would Scum-Thor make an easy vote, or at least a vote you perceive as easy?

In post 2928, TierShift wrote:Ok gm I'm not gonna act like my read on you is strong in any way so please can we talk a lot

Sure, I think that would be a grand idea. Anything in particular you'd like to discuss?
In post 2800, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2655, TierShift wrote:
I've always seen being bullheaded as a town characteristic until recently a scum player used that to completely catch me off-guard. (GM knows!) It's an easy way to not contribute and I'll meta now.

I literally do not know anything about Tier anymore.

Bulba in walrus and the carpenter mafia.

What does this even mean?

In post 2660, Shiro wrote:I dunno I think I am way too noob for those big game.

Ahahahaha, me too.
[/quote]
You just accept shiro's fencesitting for what it is?
Do you think her play is similar to the scum newbie game she played or not?

Why did I drop down to 'may not be town' in your readslist?[/quote]
Like I said, I read this as 'lost newb' which is not particularly indicative. I do have a townlean on the slot based on Cho though.
Not really, but again, there's a huge size difference here.

Because the way you're engaging with the game today feels really really off. Also I'm not really seeing any of your thought process, which is really weird for you.

In post 2929, davesaz wrote:Are there normally town bulletproof here? Anyone familiar with that being a role?

Sometimes. It's surged a little in popularity since the Newbie setup changed to Matrix6. 2-Shot would be about the right number of shots for a Large.

I'm pretty sure it counts as Normal but am too lazy to look it up at present.

In post 2931, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2919, goodmorning wrote:Do you remember the context in which you said that line? If not, there's no point to this.

Yes I do. I didn't see what you said in the hood qt where you initially brought it up thus I can't know exactly what you said and went off what Boon said. Not that it matters as I said.

Do you have a point to this?

You felt fine judging that Izariael's statement was not a scumslip without seeing it. When I took issue with you, you used "I didn't see your post" as an excuse. These things are mildly contradictory.

In post 2932, Izariael wrote:There's also the fact that he keeps saying "I did (insert action) to gauge so-and-so's reaction". BULLSHIT. His question in neighborhood was never directed at anyone. If I'd not replied, would he still be saying he did it to gauge my reaction? If someone else had replied instead of me, would he still be saying he did it to gauge my reaction? I doubt either scenario would have happened. I think he's using the convenience that I DID reply to act as though his action was a deliberate attempt at scumhunting.

I replied as well, and indeed with a similar answer iirc. I wonder about that.

In post 2935, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2852, goodmorning wrote:I'm not interested in anyone else's opinion on what may or may not have been a slip. I am interested in clarifying Izariael's possible slip with Izariael only.

IZ's stance is he did exactly what you accused him of he thinks it is bad to assume scum in the hoods but did in said instance. He made this obvious days ago. I assume you are saying it is a slip?

I'm not saying anything about it at present.

Why are you not interested in anyone else's opinion on the subject? Did you not find my input useful into your decision making?

Because YOU WERE NOT THERE.
No, and I really wish you'd input your opinion somewhere else. Like on Thor. Do you townread him?

P-Edit: Lovely. LOVELY. Look, I am now scumreading him based on him posting nothing but easy posts yesterday. Care to comment, or shall I ignore you the rest of the Day?
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Post Post #3104  (isolation #133)  » Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:53 pm

In post 2952, Slandaar wrote:Point being Thor's original argument was good and I liked it, I also feel he would have dropped the argument with the meta's appearance if he were scum but this is based on my feeling of his meta.

This makes some amount of sense. I don't necessarily agree but I can see where you're coming from.

In post 2953, TierShift wrote:
In post 2948, goodmorning wrote:It wasn't. That said, why would Scum-Thor make an easy vote, or at least a vote you perceive as easy?

Because it wouldn't have made me think he was scum. Scum can just farm an easy mislynch if that will not make them appear scummy.

Why should Thor care what you think of him? Why would he act based on your opinion?

In post 2948, goodmorning wrote:What does this even mean?

Bulbazak was scum in walrus and the carpenter mafia, in which he was very bullheaded. I used to see that as a town characteristic mainly.

Ah.

In post 2948, goodmorning wrote:Because the way you're engaging with the game today feels really really off. Also I'm not really seeing any of your thought process, which is really weird for you.

You're not seeing any thought process, that might be true. Not today at least. But I usually show thought process in both my town and scum games, so that doesn't really count as a scumtell.[/quote]
Which is why I said it was weird.

If you want some clean thought process, go look at my stuff on egg, please.

I have done. It's also weird.

What is your own read on boon and what do you think of his thor vote?

I don't really have a read on him; I could see him either as a disinterested PR or a Scum coasting on a claim like that.
His Thor vote was not good.

In post 2959, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2957, T S O wrote:gm is so town

Can you expand that thought with words?
I don't particularly find her scummy, per se' - but I find her so useless as to be lynch worthy, so a town read would shrink my lynch pools.

You keep using that word.

In post 2972, Nero Cain wrote:Gosh I hope flubber isn't scum for pushing someone that he can't kill at night.

Why assume Boon is BP?

@Muffin: hey do you still think thor is town? if you do then i wanna talk about that shit
judging by later posts MAYBE NOT

Actually feel slightly better about Axle w/ this Nero thing. I mean, it's not a great point or anything but I can follow it and it makes sense.

In post 3028, Thor665 wrote:@Goodmorning - remember when you lied to me twice yesterday about answering that question about wagon analysis? You ever planning to do that - or was it all lies from top to bottom?

oh u

If you're going to try to turn this into something alignment-indicative, don't bother. I'll just bring up the month-long case delay in S&L again.

In post 3045, TierShift wrote:Right, so why is boon being wagoned now? Can someone explain? For me, his claim checks out.

Some of his actions don't seem to make sense coming from a BP. Like the whole thing where he was trying to lynch Izariael and said something about Iz fishing for towncred by not killing Boon which I don't remember clearly because it hurt my brain.

In post 3055, AxleGreaser wrote:@Anyone
Odd question. If a two shot BP gets shot, does he get notified on this forum?

Not usually. Probably wouldn't in this game.

In post 3067, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3066, AxleGreaser wrote:so with two deaths N1 you think he got shot why?

or how?

I'm just going to point out that it wouldn't be unthinkable for 3 killing roles/factions to exist.

In post 3073, Shiro wrote:Any one that is experienced enough and not Axl that may wants to know why Thor thinks my placement in the Pere wagon was scummy ?

I don't really care why he thinks that because
1. he's Scum
2. VCA is bullshit

In post 3078, reinoe wrote:@Goodmorning
Why's Thor scum?

D1 what I had was a tone-based read. D2, looking back, Thor didn't say anything he couldn't take back, only pushed Pere, not very Town-Thor actions. Now he's beginning to worry about my read on him because I can back it up; you'll notice he's tried to discredit me pretty much every time he posts.

In post 3102, The Fonz wrote:GM's annoying but town. Play makes perfect sense from the perspective of a somewhat poor town player who is trying and has a slightly inflated view of her own abilities.

eyyyyy what's your excuse then?

In post 2855, goodmorning wrote:People who townread Thor: please, please explain why.

Has strong reads, single-minded focus on them, high level of effort (yes, it is the single best town-tell) exasperation at derping about. [/quote]
1. No, he doesn't. I went through and pointed out that none of his reads (other than Pere) is any more justified than "I liked his gut reads on 4 people."
2. Yeahhhhh I don't know what universe you play Mafia in but I find tunneling to be mildly scummy. As Scum, it's a lot easier to push one person and not comment on the rest so that you can "change your mind" whenever it's convenient. I mean, Town tunnel too, and I've certainly done it, but it's not something that makes Scum's lives harder.
3. Effort is most certainly not indicative of alignment. Thor posts ridiculous numbers of posts no matter what.
4. It's really easy to say "come on guys, deadline is coming, let's consolidate" especially when them not consolidating means you lose a mislynch.

So I still don't understand it.
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Post Post #3111  (isolation #134)  » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:12 pm

In post 3105, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3104, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2959, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2957, T S O wrote:gm is so town

Can you expand that thought with words?
I don't particularly find her scummy, per se' - but I find her so useless as to be lynch worthy, so a town read would shrink my lynch pools.

You keep using that word.

I do, don't I?

I do not think it means what you think it means.

But if you'd like to back up that statement then that would be fun.

Mostly I just want the clean quote for later use whether it's 'yes I'll do it' or 'no, I won't'

Astonishingly I think I already covered this issue last twilight phase.
Since you can't find it apparently:
In post 2542, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2532, Thor665 wrote:Hey, GM, I'm keeping you in mind.

lolk

Well, it's not happening now. If we're all alive Tomorrow it'll happen then.


In post 3106, Muffin wrote:
In post 3104, goodmorning wrote:@Muffin: hey do you still think thor is town? if you do then i wanna talk about that shit
judging by later posts MAYBE NOT

Nope, not particularly. One weaksauce case on PereV I can maybe forgive because it's D1 and we all have low info. But I would not expect arguably weaker cases on D2 from him.

I'm beginning to feel distinctly excited at the chances of this wagon.
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Post Post #3163  (isolation #135)  » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:33 am

In post 3114, TierShift wrote:
In post 3104, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2953, TierShift wrote:
In post 2948, goodmorning wrote:It wasn't. That said, why would Scum-Thor make an easy vote, or at least a vote you perceive as easy?

Because it wouldn't have made me think he was scum. Scum can just farm an easy mislynch if that will not make them appear scummy.

Why should Thor care what you think of him? Why would he act based on your opinion?

It's not my opinion specifically; it's town's in general, as the second line pointed out. He wouldn't seem scummy.

Why do you think it wouldn't make him seem scummy, given that you seem to think he would have made it if he was Scum? You're implying that you would have found him scummy for making the vote (since you find him towny for not) so I really don't understand. You're thinking in circles and it doesn't make sense.

If you want some clean thought process, go look at my stuff on egg, please.

I have done. It's also weird.

:/ Please provide some more detail please

It looks like you were trying to work up to scumreading him, found you couldn't make a case, decided he was Town who just didn't make sense, and then decided he was worth sheeping? That's weird. That's a trajectory that doesn't make sense.

In post 3126, Thor665 wrote:@GM - yes, I am aware you said you would do it today. You also said you would do it weeks ago. Which lie would you like me to believe?

ahahahahahahaha here we go again

Me putting things off is super duper not indicative of alignment. This is the part where, as promised, I reference Shadows and Lights Mafia, in which I was VT and put off posting a case for an entire month.
But you can paint it as lies if you want. Goodness knows you don't seem to have any other defense.
In fact, the sheer amount of time you're spending calling me a liar rather than pushing any kind of case makes my case even stronger.
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Post Post #3173  (isolation #136)  » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:43 pm

In post 3169, TierShift wrote:
In post 3163, goodmorning wrote:Why do you think it wouldn't make him seem scummy, given that you seem to think he would have made it if he was Scum? You're implying that you would have found him scummy for making the vote (since you find him towny for not) so I really don't understand. You're thinking in circles and it doesn't make sense.

I would have thought it to be neutral for him to make the vote. He seems to me one of the players who votes for inconsistency and irrationality more than anything. But that's not my point. The majority of the players would not have thought him scummy for it. That's why it was safe to do it.

But it goes nowhere, as I'm mildly scumreading thor.

There are two possible responses for me to make for this.
The reasonable, sane one is thus: how do you know what a majority of players would or would not think?
The fun one is as follows: The majority of players wouldn't have thought he was scummy if he'd put on an "I'm Scum" hat and danced an "I'm Scum" dance on an "I'm Scum" table to the tune of "I'm Scum".

Anyway, he had a good tunnel going: what would be the point of doing anything else?

It looks like you were trying to work up to scumreading him, found you couldn't make a case, decided he was Town who just didn't make sense, and then decided he was worth sheeping? That's weird. That's a trajectory that doesn't make sense.

No, that's incorrect. I was sort of scumreading him at first for not doing shit, that's right. But then I ISO'd him and decided I liked his thought process and found him sheepable. You can see that in and . I have never thought he was town who didn't make sense.

Does the trajectory make sense now?

You plainly were not a huge fan of his thoughts on Pere.
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Post Post #3230  (isolation #137)  » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:46 pm

In post 3176, TierShift wrote:@gm:
In post 2356, TierShift wrote:I like the pere and gm scumreads

?

I don't remember seeing that. Perhaps I was looking in the wrong place. I'll take another look when I'm on my own computer.

I feel that responding about townreading thor for not voting boon has little merit, so I'm not going to.

It still doesn't make sense to me but I really don't think anything could make it do so.

@Thor: If you weren't talking about the number of times they were discussed and you weren't talking about the quality of Shiro's discussion of them then what the hell were you talking about? And why are you so reluctant to tell us who you mixed Shiro up with? These are the problems Muffin has with you and I don't see why it is so apparently difficult for you to understand that.

P-EDIT: @Axle: what is your read on Thor?
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Post Post #3354  (isolation #138)  » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:55 pm

In post 3234, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3230, goodmorning wrote:@Thor: If you weren't talking about the number of times they were discussed and you weren't talking about the quality of Shiro's discussion of them then what the hell were you talking about?

Okay, look, it is OBVIOUS that I was talking about the amount of the relative conversation about each person. i literally said as much.
That said, what Muffin did was to count the number of times a given name showed up. That doesn't take into account pronouns, and it *certainly* doesn't take into account the amount of time spent talking about either one.
Then he acted like ti did.

So now pronouns also count or? Does that mean you'd be cool with counting names+pronouns and calling that the answer?

WHAT DO YOU THINK I MEANT?
And more importantly, do you think Muffin's approach remotely resembles sanity in asking me about it?

Looking at those posts, there doesn't seem to be a significant amount more on either player. So I have no idea what you meant, and Muffin questioning you makes quite a bit of sense.
Tier said it a lot better than me in . And Izariael on p134.

In post 3230, goodmorning wrote: And why are you so reluctant to tell us who you mixed Shiro up with? These are the problems Muffin has with you and I don't see why it is so apparently difficult for you to understand that.

I'm reluctant because;

1. I don't know off the top of my head and would need to do research.
2. I see no value in even having that info.

That's really it.
If someone could explain the value to me to justify the work I'd probably kvetch but would provide the answer. But...I really don't even get the issue.

You found things this player was doing to be worthy of votes. If I scumread someone and find that it's someone else's posts I'm scumreading then I damned sure am going to figure out who it is.
The value of that info for everyone else is that it helps us confirm whether you are or are not full of shit.
And Shiro said similar in .

@Axle: You're telling me you read Thor as Town because he says you can't read him?
I literally have lost all of my can.

In post 3267, Garmr wrote:also everyone you voted except me and gm were easy vote tso(through town easy),scriptian,pere,boonskies

Also the fact you said boon was a easy vote and that was the wagon you were just on -shakes head-

I'm going to point out that given the number of times Thor's called me a liar at this point, it wouldn't necessarily be hard to run me up either.

In post 3278, Izariael wrote:
In post 3277, TierShift wrote:And when your basis is wrong, why do you keep insisting other people are to blame?

Because Thor wins his arguments/debates by cramming his opinions down other people's throats, regardless of their validity, until the opposition loses motivation to continue the discussion.

I call this the Bill O'Reilly, especially if it involves interrupting people and shouting them down.

Protip: If two people are debating a point and only one is shouting, the shouting one is either losing or insanely frustrated. Either way they're probably overmatched, but the words they're saying will tell you which is the actual situation.

In post 3295, TierShift wrote:Slandaar's focus on proving thor's factual basis right is so wrong

ilu tier

In post 3305, Slandaar wrote:The objective of playing a game is really to have fun. I mean win is also there and ideally do both but if it's not fun what are you playing for?

And underneath all the disagreements, Slandaar and myself finally find some common ground.

Thor wrote:Also, if you note, everything he said about Pere was "not scum" and then he voted him. I wonder why Thor would ever take that as uncool.

If this was how you'd pushed it then it wouldn't have been a problem.
I like that you only just now have come up with this point since only Slandaar believes your relative mentions case.
Oh, and now it's down to number of words?
I have a cat.
I possess an odoriferous, chubby, bi-polar calico of the feline sort.
Certainly the latter is more descriptive, but description =/= explanation. And anyway if that was what you meant originally then why not have said it? You made an unsupported statement and, rather than respond honestly to those who ask, have been incredibly evasive.

I really haven't gotten that many people who have said they townread Thor:
Slandaar, who made a reasonable point but with whom I disagree
Fonz, whose reasons I decimated approximately a lot and who should post more
Axle, whose reasons I really really don't understand.

Does anyone other than those 3 townread Thor?
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Post Post #3370  (isolation #139)  » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:41 pm

@Nero: hey, what was your Thor read again?
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Post Post #3376  (isolation #140)  » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:18 pm

In post 3373, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3370, goodmorning wrote:@Nero: hey, what was your Thor read again?

I'd pl this slot. His case on PV yesterday was all sorts of horrible. At one point he said I was playing horrible and the only way town can play horrible is if thier reads are wrong so I asked him to explain why my scumreads were wrong. He didn't do this and I didn't like that. Not really a big fan of lynching Shiro so I disliked his vote. Fonz reasons for town reading Thor are like really bad and if Fonz is scum then that sort of makes me think Thor isn't on his team but my gut just doesn't go "oh oh, no way this is town." *shrugz* I AM agreeing with you that singular scum hunting is scummy/bad town play but like I said, that's going to come from him regardless of alignment me thinks.

I... see?

What is your read on flubber and why?

I'm sort of leaning Town on him based on the fact that he seems to be scumhunting more genuinely than literally anyone else. His questions are pretty insightful, and he's not allowing himself to get sidetracked in a lot of these 1v1s.
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Post Post #3379  (isolation #141)  » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:13 pm

In post 3377, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3376, goodmorning wrote:I'm sort of leaning Town on him based on the fact that he seems to be scumhunting more genuinely than literally anyone else.

Scumhunting more genuinely than anyone else in the game only earns 'sort of leaning town'?

The word "seems" in there should provide a little insight into the workings of this read.
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Post Post #3386  (isolation #142)  » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:55 pm

In post 3381, AxleGreaser wrote:@Goodmorning
In post 3354, goodmorning wrote:@Axle: You're telling me you read Thor as Town because he says you can't read him?

I would only be telling you that if you cant/didnt read my post
you apparently also dont remember what you asked

You asked: " what is your read on Thor?" << does not ask for a reason (a because)

and I told you, and I never stated a reason at all.
(I did tell you why I had downgraded it, from what would have been a stronger town read)

Actually I asked several times for anyone with a townread on Thor to explain it to me. (see 2855, 2919 below)
Rereading your post in this light, it makes more sense.
On that note, please explain your townlean on Thor.

Axle wrote:Please state your reasoning for wanting to lynch Thor.

I point out Thor's hypocrisy with his Shiro case and question his discomfort with Slandaar's Shiro vote
I point out that Thor took very easy actions for all of D1, never taking a stance he couldn't go back on with ease
I point out that the basis for literally every single read Thor provided was "gut" and mention that the multiball thing was bullshit
goodmorning wrote:There's literally nothing anywhere here that he couldn't just go "oh, I changed my mind" or "oh, I don't remember that" except the Pere thing.

Also in 2855 I asked anyone with a townread on Thor to explain it.
ALSO in 2855 I pointed out some discrepancies in his readslist, most notably his read on Tier.
Thor doesn't hide as Town.
goodmorning wrote:I'm pointing out that you're being inconsistent and not doing much scumhunting and you're choosing to focus on semantics and attempting to paint my argument as fallacious.

In post 2919, goodmorning wrote:YOU IGNORED THE PART OF THE POST IN WHICH I PROVIDED EVIDENCE THAT YOU'VE DONE LITTLE, AND THAT LITTLE NOT MAKING MUCH SENSE
AND YOU IGNORED IT IN FAVOUR OF A CHEAP DISCREDIT

HOW MUCH MORE ATTENTION-GRABBING DO I HAVE TO MAKE THIS: IS ANYONE AT ALL TOWNREADING THOR RIGHT NOW? FUCKING EXPLAIN IT.

goodmorning wrote:D1 what I had was a tone-based read. D2, looking back, Thor didn't say anything he couldn't take back, only pushed Pere, not very Town-Thor actions. Now he's beginning to worry about my read on him because I can back it up; you'll notice he's tried to discredit me pretty much every time he posts.


Can you please stop pretending to have read my posts, Axle?

-----------

Axle wrote:on D1 you claimed it was all tone and feels and refused to provide details.
I believe on D2 all of sudden you have started being able to provide details based on D1 posts.

Yup. The magic of hindsight.
I did mention that I felt he had a certain whingey quality as Scum that he lacked as Town, but other than Thor I don't think anyone looked at the games I brought up.

Axle wrote:The D1 lynch mislynched one townie who was being wagoned against another(Anen)
and you rather conveniently were not pushing your wagon with reason so it didnt go anywhere.

It was bigger than the Anen wagon for a while iirc, not that it really matters. You're saying Scum-me would fake-push a 3rd townie when two easy marks were already on the block?

Axle wrote:I call BS, explain your case
explain why on D2 it has details and on D1, you didnt have any

Reading D1 page-by-page is a lot different than reading D1 as a whole, especially in a Large. It's really easy to get swamped in the RIGHT NOW.
My failing in case-making was a failure to look at the bigger picture.
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Post Post #3393  (isolation #143)  » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:32 pm

In post 3390, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3379, goodmorning wrote:The word "seems" in there should provide a little insight into the workings of this read.

So you think he's capable of faking the genuineness?
Any particular reason for that?

I don't know whether or not he is.
Gut feeling is that something's weird, but I've never played him before so there's probably nothing in it. At any rate he's Town enough that I won't consider lynching him as things currently stand, and that's what really matters.

In post 3391, AxleGreaser wrote:I have also recently posted on GM and Nero. Comment or not at this time at your choice.

Pointing out that I responded and am waiting for you to answer the riposte questions I posed.

In post 3392, Garmr wrote:Thors null on my reads list at the moment

HOW.

Thor has almost FOUR HUNDRED POSTS. HOW DO YOU NOT HAVE A READ FROM THAT.
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Post Post #3396  (isolation #144)  » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:39 pm

In post 3395, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3393, goodmorning wrote:I don't know whether or not he is.
Gut feeling is that something's weird, but I've never played him before so there's probably nothing in it. At any rate he's Town enough that I won't consider lynching him as things currently stand, and that's what really matters.

Why would it be weird for him to be genuine?

Not that it would be weird for him to be genuine, just that sometimes he seems too focused maybe? I don't know, it's a weird gut thing which is probably irrelevant as I said.
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Post Post #3400  (isolation #145)  » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:07 am

In post 3397, AxleGreaser wrote:No one except Thor really drove a lynch wagon (got many votes.) The Anen wagon looks scummy as fuck to me.
If thor is not town, where the hell was town on D1? and what were they doing?

PoE, Thor is town.

So Thor is Town because people listened to him based on his rep and there's a lazy Town this game?
And that's not really PoE...?

Then there is that your case is bad.

Hypocrisy is scummy Now?

It can be.

In that case your scum for not wanting to scum read TSO for it yesterday?
(I Showed TSO hypocrisy...)

You really didn't.

I point out that Thor took very easy actions for all of D1, never taking a stance he couldn't go back on with ease

Well there was lynching PereV thats pretty hard to go back on.
Your Thor is scum because tone read, is however I take it firm non retractable position to take?
Although you claim that is the case you dont give any examples to demonstrate your point there.[/quote]
Has he gotten any flak for the Pere lynch? No, because nearly everyone else's vote on that wagon was worse.
I don't know about anyone else, but I take tone seriously. Besides that, I took several hard stances on people based on real evidence. Thor did not.
The examples come in a few posts, as you see below in the next post apparently.

I point out that the basis for literally every single read Thor provided was "gut" and mention that the multiball thing was bullshit

For comparison: Please show me your list of stronger reads that came with reasons?
show me your filter as side by side comparison to Thor to really show me how a towny would have strong stances with reasons on D1 in this game.[/quote]
I'm not going back through my ISO as I just had to do so to point out all the posts of mine that you didn't read. Off the top of my head I was pretty clear on Csareo, TSO, dave, maybe Tier? Had some nice points on Slandaar and Fonz too. Explained And you can watch my Muffin read change in real time, even if I don't quote any specific posts of his to respond to. Besides which I made clear that if anyone had any questions about anyone then all they had to do was ask and they should receive.

I notice that in the part I snipped, you failed to quote anything I posted on anyone but Thor, a read I fully concede was not solid at the time. I notice you ignored posts like :
goofy is flying well below radar, dave is taking safe stances


But OK.

P-EDIT: @Garmr: Well that makes sense I guess.
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Post Post #3401  (isolation #146)  » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:13 am

HOORAY I BROKE QUOTES BAD
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Post Post #3405  (isolation #147)  » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:34 am

Axle wrote:I also chose not to answer your question at that time. 2919 (it was not important to my scum hunting)

It was important to mine.

At any rate, Axle appears to have decided that only about half of what I posted was worth responding to and the rest was worth ignoring. As I've already responded to about half his responses, I think I'll ignore the rest.

@Izariael: I know, right? I appear literally incapable of producing quote stripes that actually work right, no matter how many times I press the Preview button beforehand. It's getting a little ridiculous.
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Post Post #3409  (isolation #148)  » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:20 am

In post 3407, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3405, goodmorning wrote:At any rate, Axle appears to have decided that only about half of what I posted was worth responding to and the rest was worth ignoring. As I've already responded to about half his responses, I think I'll ignore the rest.

BULLSHIT

as already indicated the tags messed up I stopped half way through....

I was referring to the second half, in which you omitted discussion of many of my finer points and used the word ignore at least twice before I stopped counting/caring.

I've decided that, for the sake of my sanity, I'm going to return to my D1 stance on you, which is roughly a state of not bothering to read your posts. Perhaps shot # whichever you aren't gets wise to the fact that there doesn't appear to be any real trajectory in the posts of yours I have bothered to read and you go away tonight. Either way, I can't be bothered.
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Post Post #3480  (isolation #149)  » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:36 am

In post 3464, Scripten wrote:It makes me feel like the Thor wagon should migrate over to Garmr for today.

No. Stop doing associatives before flips and start contributing actual useful information.


Why has this game descended into petty bullshit? Why do so few people actually seem to be scumhunting? Why is Thor not dead yet?
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Post Post #3484  (isolation #150)  » Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:06 am

Who are you asking?
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Post Post #3510  (isolation #151)  » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:40 pm

In post 3496, The Fonz wrote:
In post 3104, goodmorning wrote:
In post 3102, The Fonz wrote:GM's annoying but town. Play makes perfect sense from the perspective of a somewhat poor town player who is trying and has a slightly inflated view of her own abilities.

eyyyyy what's your excuse then?

My play makes sense from the perspective of a good town player, obviously.

lolk

1. No, he doesn't. I went through and pointed out that none of his reads (other than Pere) is any more justified than "I liked his gut reads on 4 people."

"I don't like his read" =/= He doesn't have reads. And you can't just go 'Except for that one really strong read, which he pursued with tenacity.' Today we know who his top suspect is, too.

No, my point is that none of his reads were at all justified. It's almost as if he was trying to keep up a pretense of scumhunting.

2. Yeahhhhh I don't know what universe you play Mafia in but I find tunneling to be mildly scummy. As Scum, it's a lot easier to push one person and not comment on the rest so that you can "change your mind" whenever it's convenient. I mean, Town tunnel too, and I've certainly done it, but it's not something that makes Scum's lives harder.

Yeeeaaaah I don't know what universe you play mafia in, but town who think they have found scum should push that case strongly until such time as the player doesn't look scummy any more or someone else looks scummier. Thor's top suspect was the leading wagon for most of yesterday. He has no reason to waste time talking about other wagons, except in so far as how they were inferior to the PerVwagon. It would in fact have been antitown to do so.

It's antiTown not to scumhunt, and when you're using your tunnel as an excuse not to scumhunt there's a problem. I never said he needed to comment on other wagons, only on other people.

3. Effort is most certainly not indicative of alignment. Thor posts ridiculous numbers of posts no matter what.

Effort is most certainly indicative of alignment, that's just obviously true. Also, by 'effort' I don't mean number of posts (Which is somewhat related to alignment, but only relatively, and often confounded). I'm not saying 'He's town because he's posting a lot.' I'm saying he's town because he appears emotionally invested in what he's saying, and playing proactively.

So as Scum, he wouldn't be as emotionally invested in winning as he would as Town? As Scum, he wouldn't try to play as proactively as Town? As Scum, he wouldn't try to look Town?

4. It's really easy to say "come on guys, deadline is coming, let's consolidate" especially when them not consolidating means you lose a mislynch.

Not sure what this is relevant to. People are blaming Thor because no-one else pushed a wagon with anything like the effectiveness he did.[/quote]
You were saying that Thor was frustrated about people's lack of trying and that somehow makes him Town. This is me saying it doesn't.

In post 3497, The Fonz wrote:
In post 3104, goodmorning wrote:Some of his actions don't seem to make sense coming from a BP. Like the whole thing where he was trying to lynch Izariael and said something about Iz fishing for towncred by not killing Boon which I don't remember clearly because it hurt my brain.

That doesn't make sense, but it doesn't make specifically little sense for a BP to say, because Iz didn't know which power role Boon was hinting.

He specifically mentioned it in the context of him being dead, which he wouldn't be as a BP. Also there's no way Boon could know for certain that anyone didn't try to kill him last night.
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Post Post #3536  (isolation #152)  » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:37 pm

In post 3515, reinoe wrote:He "dismantled" the part that was a typo and literally ignored everything else.

This is p much what he's been doing since I got a real case.

In post 3525, Shiro wrote:Can someone give me a brief of the case on thor in one post everything neatly placed.

If you check out the first post I was talking to Axle in, it's all there.

Why would scum do it ?

Because he's desperate, and also he probably didn't think it would look bad on him.
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Post Post #3592  (isolation #153)  » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:09 am

In post 3578, beastcharizard wrote:Life took over. Can someone give me a quick update on the Thor case?

See the main points in .

In post 3590, Slandaar wrote:See, Why is she not interested in my opinion on the subject? I felt my input was very very good. It doesn't make any sense. Have they been discussing the slip? no, Iz admitted to doing what GM said and nothing has happened since.

You weren't there. You didn't see it. It's between us two and we have discussed it to a conclusion. I literally could not care less what you think about the situation, given the above. Except there's one possibility for me caring less, and that would be if I scumread you too, which - oh wait. I DO.

Stop trying to distract from the Thor lynch.

In post 3591, Slandaar wrote:she should be accusing Iz of a slip because he admitted to doing what she thinks is a slip and he failed to explain it away.

I don't know what's going on in YOUR version of the thread, but 1. did he really fail? and 2. you think if someone is good at explaining things away that excuses scumslips from them or something?
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Post Post #3594  (isolation #154)  » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:27 am

In post 3593, Slandaar wrote:Do you, GM, think Iz slipped or not? (yes or no answer only please) Then: Why do you think this?

It's a little more complicated than a yes or no answer, so I'm afraid I thusly cannot answer.
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Post Post #3644  (isolation #155)  » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:28 pm

In post 3596, Slandaar wrote:You think Thor is scum so it's not that 'Thor would have to be scum and I think he's town'. Where is the complicated issue here? either you think it is or you think it isn't.

I am agnostic on this issue at present.

It doesn't have anything to do with Thor though, and I'm not sure why you think it would.

In post 3599, reinoe wrote:You've repeatedly tried to denounce or discredit the people voting you but the case on you is solid.

ilu reinoe

In post 3606, Flubbernugget wrote:I've only seen her act opaque with Thor because he deserves it.

And Axle, for much the same reason.
Actually nobody in this game deserves opacity from me more than Axle does.

@Tier: stop making me flipflop on you

your treatment of shiro looks sort of town but your thor shifts are random as anything

In post 3637, Izariael wrote:Axle, did you miss this?

Axle's missed a lot of things this game.

@Scripten: What is your read on Thor and why?
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Post Post #3648  (isolation #156)  » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:12 pm

@Scripten: What I got from that is you feel some of his posts look Town and some of his posts look Scum, but you feel like he's Town.
It bothers me that you've got twice as many negatives in that post as positives given that you townread him.

@dave: I can't remember the last time you posted an original thought. This, too, is beginning to bother me.

Also, it really isn't one of Axle's better posts on me. When I say something like "I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that," it's my work talking; it means "you need to back up, reassess where you're standing, and then choose a different course of action." In this particular situation it also had the subtext of "put up or shut up."

I have no patience for people who try to be sneaky.
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Post Post #3650  (isolation #157)  » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:34 pm

So this Thor quote from MN1517 reminded me of Thor in this game.

To everyone making comments about how I'm not "driving" like you would normally expect me to be.
Take a look at the wagons at the moment.
Figure out which is, by far, leading.
Then ask yourself which one I started - and if you don't think I started it tell me who did.
Then kindly facepalm yourselves for me.

No prizes for guessing his alignment there.
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Post Post #3674  (isolation #158)  » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:17 am

I swear I feel dumber every time I read this game. I'm also super angry at myself for being susceptible to having the goalposts moved out from under me, which has happened like three times already. (Example: this happened to Muffin when he pointed out that Thor's version of events was incorrect as Shiro's scumread on Anen was decreasing; Thor responded by moving the posts to the amount of discussion rather than the content of said discussion.)

Can Axle and Thor stop rehashing things? Especially Axle because he keeps having weird conversations with himself which descend more and more into madness each time?
I'd really like to not apathy out of this game, alright? I mean, I respect that causing apathy is helpful to your wincon if you're Scum, but there is literally no easier target for that than me and it's not fairrrrrrrrrr

@dave: And those posts were YESTERDAY, which is kind of THE POINT I WAS MAKING FFS

@Thor: Did I say the situation was the same? No. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Now:
There are 16 non-Thor players alive. Only 4.5 of them care enough about the gamestate to say they townread him (Slandaar, Fonz, Scripten, Axle, Tier [when flipflopping]). He's still alive. He hopes to talk his way out of being lynched. TBQH I'm not so sure he won't. This, too, makes me angry.

You know that thing that people find super scummy? That "hint at a wagon but don't actually push it" thing? THOR IS DOING THAT WITH ME. If this is a thing you treat as a scumtell then you should probably think Thor is Scum.

I'm going to lean on reinoe and Izariael for a bit now til I get my (metaphorical) breath back. By which I mean I'm going to keep their ISOs and mine open in one thread and just pull quotes from the three of us to answer all the stupid fucking rehashed questions that Thor or fucking Slandaar will bring up for the millionth fucking time. And heaven forbid that Fonz actually catch up, because he'll rehash questions by dint of being 20 pages behind.
But not Axle. Not because he won't rehash everything, but because I'm not answering him and it feels INCREDIBLY PLEASANT.

This has been a rambling post because if everyone else can shit up the thread then so can I.
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Post Post #3772  (isolation #159)  » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:48 pm

In post 3676, davesaz wrote:@GM: is adding original ideas to someone else's point. was also adding. I have no control over others seeing things and responding to them before I've even had a chance to read them.

That's fair. Could do with some more of you not getting sucked into 1v1s though.

In post 3680, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3674, goodmorning wrote:(Example: this happened to Muffin when he pointed out that Thor's version of events was incorrect as Shiro's scumread on Anen was decreasing; Thor responded by moving the posts to the amount of discussion rather than the content of said discussion.)

Quote me calling out the content and not the amount - even Muffin understood from the get go that I was talking amount --> he then claimed I "moved the goalposts to quantity"

So at least one of you is a total derp who got it backwards because you claim opposite things.

In post 3083, Thor665 wrote:You did take forever to say anything of worth - and then voted Pere out of the blue with no justification despite making a wall on Anen. That feels wonky to me.

In post 3089, Muffin wrote:Here's the "wall" in question, about Anen. I note without surprise that the first line explicitly shows Shiro's diminishing scumread on Anen. Given the proximity of deadline I do not see any internal inconsistency there.

You took a question of content (was Pere vote justified? suspicion of Anen was dropping) and turned it into quantity (so much more thought on Anen).

In post 3674, goodmorning wrote:@Thor: Did I say the situation was the same? No. Stop putting words in my mouth.

So...you brought up something that was different to show how I am in this game, and I was scum in the different game...?

I brought up an example of you as Scum on the offensive, as you are right now. Just because the situation isn't the same doesn't mean the reaction isn't.

In post 3681, Thor665 wrote:You claim I started at quality and moved to quantity.

No, I don't. I claim that you started in content (does Shiro's read display a coherent trajectory?) and changed the subject to classification of the content (quantity/quality/whatever).

In post 3686, davesaz wrote:Someone asks you to prove your point, and you ask them to prove the counter point.

In fancy debate words for you fancy debate folks, dave is referring to Burden of Proof, which lies on the person making a positive assertion (Thor, in this case).

In post 3689, TierShift wrote:Why do my shifts on thor make me scummy?

Because they don't make sense. I can't make heads nor tails out of them, nor any sort of reasoning at all.

In post 3701, Izariael wrote:
In post 3699, TierShift wrote:Right, but Thor's now just being awkward for no reason at all, while yesterday he needed to be so to get pere lynched.

How is/was Thor being awkward for no reason at all Day 2? His awkwardness was due to being caught out on a flimsy scumread and failing to back it up.

This.

In post 3704, Izariael wrote:Even the existing spoiler tags within the quotes weren't working properly.

Probably what happened was you broke quote tags with a spoiler, like [quote[spoiler[/quote[/spoiler. It's a known weird issue. Also they're not nestable so that would be another problem.

In post 3706, TierShift wrote:no one actually reads walls, yaknow.

I read it. And my heart cried tears of joy.

In post 3711, The Fonz wrote:Similarly, when GM claims Thor isn't scumhunting because tunnel, I wonder if she knows what scumhunting is. There is no value in 'commenting on other players' if you're confident you have scum in your dights.

Possibly, just possibly, YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY PLAYER IN THE GAME. OTHER PEOPLE NEED TO READ YOU. WHEN YOU CAN POST LITTLE ENOUGH ON 99% OF PLAYERS, YOU CAN HAVE WHATEVER OPINION IS CONVENIENT. THERE IS NOT ONLY ONE SCUM IN A GAME THIS SIZE.

ALL OF THOSE REASONS FFS

In post 3724, Shiro wrote:Can I ask something Slander which was your alternative ? Yea u defended Pere the whole time yet u never really presented any wagon for people to vote how is you abstaining to vote to keep your hands clean any better ?

SHIT JUST GOT REAL

Breaking up wallpost; part 2 coming once I've read the next 2 pages.
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Post Post #3773  (isolation #160)  » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:55 pm

In post 3756, Thor665 wrote:Unvote: Iz
Vote: Dave

What is this, the second OMGUS vote today?

In post 3771, davesaz wrote:Thor says something.
Someone disagrees with it.
Thor attacks the person who disagreed with him.

Disagreeing with things that others post is not scummy.
Attacking people who disagree with you is scummy, if you do it to the degree that Thor is doing it.

I don't see any way this position can be unclear. You're welcome to disagree with it.

This is a much better post than the posts in which you talk to Thor.

Welllllll looks like these 2 pages were mostly rehashed so NOT WALL
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Post Post #3776  (isolation #161)  » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:32 pm

In post 3774, reinoe wrote:Why leans-town Dave instead of obvscum Thor?

Because Tier is being weird about Thor today, hadn't you noticed?
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Post Post #3782  (isolation #162)  » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:47 pm

Sort of had a vague thought - wonder how many read Axle posts still?
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Post Post #3897  (isolation #163)  » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:10 am

In post 3879, Josh_B wrote:I wish I could have been that lucky this game. Fill me in on what's happened so far, please.

It's me/Izariael/reinoe vs Axle/Thor/Slandaar/Fonz. You should vote Thor. Axle's posts are nearly unreadable, which is why I've stopped reading them. Slandaar is the most likely of the three coherent ones to be Town. Fonz is useless. reinoe is definitely Town.

less important: TSO is Town, Shiro is Town, Tier is odd, boon and beast and maybe scripten are useless. boon claimed 2-shot bp. Nero is prob scum because i keep forgetting his existence. flubber and dave both sound like voices of relative reason which is nice. There are some Neighbourhoods, idr what they are off the top of my head but Boon and Izariael are in mine, Anen was, and Shiro too.
Then there's a 4-man one with TSO I think? And a 3-man which was Egg, Pere, Thor.

I am anxious to see your opinion on the game though.
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Post Post #3953  (isolation #164)  » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:26 pm

In post 3910, davesaz wrote:Answer the questions I asked. Because I don't think you're trying to figure out the Garmr slot alignment, you're trying to paint it as scum regardless of the truth.

I don't think 2441 has the meaning you are assigning to it. 418 happened before Garmer changed his mind on Boon. How many times do I have to point this out?

This is why I'm not talking to Axle anymore.

In post 3935, Josh_B wrote:can you guys explain to me what you're arguing about? Should Boonskies be getting more pressure or is that relevant?

They're arguing about some Axle thing. Boon wouldn't act any different with pressure so it probably isn't relevant.

Is boonskies a neighbor?

Yes, with me, Izariael, Shiro, and the late Anen.

I've read about 20 pages so far, my first impression is that tobyloby is scum.

Toby was replaced by Fonz, who does not improve upon the slot at all.

Axel, none of the posts you showed me make me think scum GM at all. I haven't really looked into thor or boonskies yet, but are they scumier than you?

BUTTING IN: Thor is scummier than he's ever been. 99% of his energy today has been cheap attempts to discredit people who scumread him, and his most recent discussion with Muffin is inutterably bad.

FTR I don't believe that Thor is a Town PR.
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Post Post #3961  (isolation #165)  » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:05 pm

In post 3955, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3953, goodmorning wrote:FTR I don't believe that Thor is a Town PR.

Good - so engage people and push the wagon on me to L-1 to back up your stance.

Prolonged pushing of a wagon on a player who's better than me is tiring. I've done what I can for the moment, it's up to other folks to pay attention to how sketchy you've been. I can't make people listen if they don't want to hear it.
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Post Post #3965  (isolation #166)  » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:12 pm

In post 3963, Shiro wrote:@Gm

Hey How much pressure did u feel when slander pushed u day 1 ?

None at all. But then I don't usually feel pressure even when run all the way up, so...

If the question is "how hard did Slandaar push you" then the answer would be that at this point I don't even remember him having done any such thing.
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Post Post #3969  (isolation #167)  » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:33 pm

I've already convinced more people than I usually manage. I'm not going to burn myself out deliberately. The problem is really that so many people aren't posting. How can I convince Beast or Josh or Scripten or Nero about you if they aren't around?

P-Edit: @dave: Have you commented on my Thor case or Izariael's brilliant addenda to the aforementioned yet?
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Post Post #3997  (isolation #168)  » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:40 pm

In post 3970, davesaz wrote:I actively tried to push it, and Thor promptly tied me up in knots. There is definitely a tone thing there, but there is a fine line between scum playing the town like a fiddle, and a strong townie casting nets and gutting the fish who wander into them.

He is a very strong debater, as I've said.

But what of my point that he hasn't given strong opinions? What of my point that he's spending all his energy today on ad hom attacks? It's not only his tone anymore.

In post 3980, Thor665 wrote:How about you vote GM just to see what happens?

lololololololololololololololol

In post 3983, davesaz wrote:Can you refresh the case against GM? I want to see what you point out and compare that to other material where alignment is known.

He doesn't have one. He's just trying to discredit me with votes now and hoping I drop my push.

At any rate he ought to know how useless I am in Larges, since we were in LN169 together and I lurked out most of D1 and D2. Further, he ought to know it's not alignment-indicative for me, given that I was a Mason in that game. Further, there are WAY more useless people than me in this game, so if he wants to wagon someone for uselessness, why me? Because I'm actively threatening him.

Even if you don't think anything else he's done is scummy, surely his reaction to my case on him qualifies.
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Post Post #4017  (isolation #169)  » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:41 pm

In post 4000, Shiro wrote:Hey GM you said at some point that you would be willing to lynch slandar as well as Thor. Can you perhaps help me push that ? Cause it appears I am not as succesful as I would have wanted to be. If not can you do what I asked axl above?

To be honest, I'm beginning to reconsider Slandaar since he's started actually speaking usefully. I think he could just be misguided Town looking for a strong ally to be a crutch.

Your case is fine, I'm just not really feeling it at present. Now, if you wanted Fonz... but it's not happening today. Thor is happening toda

In post 4014, reinoe wrote:
In post 4004, Scripten wrote: and with Thor's claim, her case on him is just not looking good.

Phone posting. Everyone who Reads the above section of scripten's post should have major major problems with it.
1) Firstly Thor hasn't actually claimed shit. He's comment about being a PR is less than useless.
2)Scripten is using Thor's non-claim to push Gm. He ignored Muffin's 100% confirmed town status and his push on Thor. How are you going to use someone's non-claim to push a case while Ignoring conf-town's case on someone else? That's bullshit.
3) the case on Thor is solid.
4) there's a lot of flurry going on to find a credible counterwagon to Thor. Wtf is this shit.

This is exactly what I was going to say, especially #1. ilu reinoe

In post 4016, reinoe wrote:
In post 4015, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4014, reinoe wrote:3) the case on Thor is solid.

Remind me what it is again - because I'm still pretty sure everything I've heard is 'playstyle'.

You can hear what you want, but what's been said and what you choose to hear are not the same thing.
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Post Post #4027  (isolation #170)  » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:25 pm

In post 4022, The Fonz wrote:Anyway. People oughta unvote. I'm intrigued as to what Thor can do if he's not holding back the tide of derp.

Probably the same as he did D1 and mislynch someone else he felt was a threat to him.

It's not going to be me.
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Post Post #4032  (isolation #171)  » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:47 pm

In post 4030, Thor665 wrote:If people were being as aggressive about it as I was about Pere I would not be calling it dead.

Axle's being pretty fucking aggressive about it, is what I would say if I was reading Axle's posts.

Maybe now he'll notice you're just saying what's convenient for you and people are swallowing it.
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Post Post #4039  (isolation #172)  » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:03 pm

In post 4036, The Fonz wrote:Do you honestly think a conditional read based on a to-be-determined setup fact was a real threat to Thor? That seems ridiculous to me. Especially given your protestations about how hard it is to get anyone to vote Thor.

Pere is fairly familiar with Thor, probably the most so of the players in this game. That means his existence was a potential threat. The longer he was left alive, the likelier he'd be to come up with a correct read, one that would be listened to. Thor happened to come up with a trumped-up semantic case on Pere and not only forced his lynch through but also did so in a way that would make Pere look a fool.
Is that necessarily the only possible way of things? No. Is it still interesting? Very.
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Post Post #4094  (isolation #173)  » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:06 pm

In post 4053, davesaz wrote:@ALL: What are we going to do if Thor claims something we can't/shouldn't lynch?

Pile on Fonz, Nero, or beast was my assumption. But Thor's not going to claim something we can't lynch.

In post 4089, reinoe wrote:
In post 4088, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4086, reinoe wrote:Six vanity wagons!!! What a display of hubris!

There's only five now.
You should be pushing the Thor wagon more.

I already know the agony of trying to bang my head against the wall in the face of unexplained defiance from town. Plus many of the vanity wagons are lurksacks to boot.

ilu even more now reinoe

@Fonz: you broke it. a lot.
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Post Post #4126  (isolation #174)  » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:10 pm

In post 4109, Shiro wrote:@Flubber Would you consider the gamr slot lynch ?

@GM ^

Not as the game presently stands.
I mean, I'd throw a vote there if it came down to deadline, but it's far from any that I'd choose.
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Post Post #4131  (isolation #175)  » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:15 pm

There are 3 known Neighbourhoods -
5p - gm, Izariael, Shiro, Boon, Anen
4p - Scripten, Nero, dave, TSO
3p - Thor, Egg, Pere
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Post Post #4170  (isolation #176)  » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:47 pm

In post 4161, TierShift wrote:Can someone give a recap on the last ~300 posts because I'm not likely readong them soon.

Thor says he has a PR. That's about it.
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Post Post #4180  (isolation #177)  » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:10 pm

Um. What.
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Post Post #4183  (isolation #178)  » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:12 pm

Speaking of Thor, where is he now?

P-Edit: Well that sounds like reinoe.
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Post Post #4185  (isolation #179)  » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:13 pm

I have to say I'm not completely convinced Aegor would use a doublevoter though.
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Post Post #4188  (isolation #180)  » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:16 pm

@Scripten: That would be pretty stupid given that Thor's been around the block a time or ten. While you're here, rmind me what your reads are?

P-Edit: Fake Dayvig is getting pretty dull.
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Post Post #4364  (isolation #181)  » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:49 pm

In post 4198, Thor665 wrote:Claim: 1-shot JKer

Target - GM

I still don't believe that you are a Town PR.

I don't like this Thor/Scripten discussion, it feels sleazy.

In post 4267, Boonskiies"Thor...and Flubber...come on. Two always easily mislynched people.[/quote]
lol wut

[quote="In post 4273, TierShift wrote:
Here gonna come the great townlist:
Thor
Fonz
Reinoe
Axle
Tso
(Flub)
(Iza)
Between brackets are shaky.
All the other players are game!

How in the flying fuck do you have Fonz as a townread???????


what the fuckkkkkk

In post 4279, TierShift wrote:I so hope gm somehow confirms thor's claim s we can flashwagon this

Do you think before you speak?? The only way I'd be able to confirm that anyone targeted me with some sort of roleblocking capacity would be if I were to claim a PR that receives results, and did not receive them last night due to being roleblocked.

PRs that receive results are generally not that brand of expendable.

In post 4311, Izariael wrote:
In post 4302, The Fonz wrote:So, seriously, who's up for putting up with this kind of 'analysis' every day until deadline? Lynch him now, or forever hold your peace!

(If Boon survives today, I will not be voting for him later on barring the aforementioned awesome case).

Omg Fonz for town mayor. I support this message.

I disagree.
1. It's ridiculous to take people off the table just because oyu're being cranky.
2. Even if Boon is being 100% ridiculous, at least he's posting. If we have to PL someone, at least it should be beast.

In post 4351, Scripten wrote:- Goodmorning is likely scum, since she started the wagon, but hasn't pushed it nearly as hard as others on it.

bitch please
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Post Post #4365  (isolation #182)  » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:50 pm

Literally though

1-Shot JK is totally a Scum PR for when the Scum investigative finds a Town PR


literally

that shit is not a fucking town pr
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Post Post #4386  (isolation #183)  » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:14 pm

In post 4370, Scripten wrote:
In post 4364, goodmorning wrote:I don't like this Thor/Scripten discussion, it feels sleazy.

Oh?

How?

Because this:
Image

In post 4364, goodmorning wrote:
In post 4351, Scripten wrote:- Goodmorning is likely scum, since she started the wagon, but hasn't pushed it nearly as hard as others on it.

bitch please

Disagree? Show I'm wrong.

I'm not wasting my time going through my ISO just because you couldn't be bothered to read my posts.

Muffin and Izar took up the majority of the case; that puts you in a prime scum-leading-town slot. Of course, you only really have to worry about that if you know Thor is town.

lolololololololololol

In post 4380, Nero Cain wrote:So lets talk about Scriptens actions in the hood last night.

TSO wasn't posting and I called him on it. He said that he forgot and then wanted to talk about Anen. He also asked if we got a night start pm. I told him no and then asked him about his Fonz and Garmr reads. Scripten then made a post that made it sound like me and TSO were fighting. I thought it was strange that he was acting like me and TSO were getting into it. His response was that the night dl was over and to ignore him.
This seemed weird and scummy.

This is much weirder than anything that got posted in my neighbourhood last night.

P-Edit: Hmmmmmmmm well hopefully TSO or dave can clear up this factual disagreement.
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Post Post #4502  (isolation #184)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:08 pm

I really don't like the way Thor is dancing around reading me.

In post 4405, Boonskiies wrote:Nero's the play toDay, boys. I'll eat my pants if he somehow (he won't) flips town.

No, it's still Thor. Thor is still today's lynch.

In post 4431, TierShift wrote:
In post 4325, The Fonz wrote:Weak town read. See the above. I suspected him early D1, but he does get more purposeful, even if I didn't like the direction he took. I see no glaring contradictions or anything.

Because he's purposeful, he's town? And he doesn't contradict, so he's town?

That's not really trying to look at his alignment, is it?

Fonz/Nero/Thor y/y?

In post 4435, Slandaar wrote:
In post 4365, goodmorning wrote:1-Shot JK is totally a Scum PR for when the Scum investigative finds a Town PR

Why did he use it n1 then?

Or are you saying he is lying about that?

He said himself he usually dies early. I think either multiball, SK, or some Vig paranoia would happily cause him to use it early, if he did.

In post 4436, Nero Cain wrote:Thor, who was your second biggest scumread on d1?

this question tho

In post 4494, Slandaar wrote:Well I mean we could debate the merits of the claim; surely if he were scum he would claim full JK instead of 1-shot as 1-shot which has used it's shot is useless and really is no better than claiming VT.

Not a good survival tactic hm?

He said himself that he doesn't fakeclaim PRs, only alignments.
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Post Post #4506  (isolation #185)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:32 pm

In post 4503, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4502, goodmorning wrote:I really don't like the way Thor is dancing around reading me.

What else do you expect, I am calling you nullish with a scum lean and I support the idea of lynching you for playing so terribly.

You, meanwhile, have tunneled me since Day 1 on a case of 'gut' and done little else than that.

What exactly am I supposed to get a read off of you for? The bad case, the tunnel, or the whine that I haven't read you?
And how much more of a read do you need than 'terrible play - would lynch'?

This is further weird from you.

Again with the misrepping?
1. My case on you has never included gut.
2. My case on you has expanded since D1 and now includes more than tone evidence.
3. I've expressed reads on multiple players and the desire to lynch people who aren't you. That's not really a tunnel any way you look at it.
4. You have yet to point out exactly how my play has been "terrible" or why you find that a "lean Scum". In fact, I don't think you've actually assigned any alignment stance to me until now; you've previously hidden behind "would lynch" which is in no way the same thing.
5. Please answer Nero's question: who was your second-place scumread D1?

@Josh: There were 2 kills last Night. This doesn't tell us whether multiball, SK, or Vig, nor does it tell us whether there could be a third killing role which we have not yet seen.
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Post Post #4510  (isolation #186)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:00 pm

In post 4507, Scripten wrote:
In post 4506, goodmorning wrote:5. Please answer Nero's question: who was your second-place scumread D1?

He did already. It was you.

I missed that.

In that case, it's pretty fucking interesting he never said so, eh?
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Post Post #4516  (isolation #187)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:07 pm

Spoiler: Thor, to or about me, D1
In post 65, Thor665 wrote:
In post 61, goodmorning wrote:Yes, I'm in a Neighbourhood with 3 others and Cho. No, I don't think we can say there's absolutely Scum in the Neighbourhood, though it is likely.

Maybe.
It's multi-neighborhood though.
Kind of works with the Masquerade theme I suppose.

In post 557, Thor665 wrote:
In post 555, goodmorning wrote:On the contrary. The existence of a Neighbourhood of such size implies that there is probably a Scum in it (though not definitively, as I've said).
In post 541, Muffin wrote:I would like to know, for my own scumhunting purposes, which players are in a neighbourhood with which others.

Because sometimes neighbourhoods result in weird coordination that can look like a scumteam but is not.

So... yeah.

I for one think there's some mileage in keeping some folks secret.

I did a bit of snippage here to put the thoughts together.
Yo, Goodmorning, why can you both believe that the neighborhood(s?) are likely to have scum in them but *also* be in support of keeping them secret?
Like, what's the benefit to town exactly?

In post 671, Thor665 wrote:
In post 669, goodmorning wrote:I'm getting quite a lot off this multiball bit though, so that's good.

At least you're able to admit it's active scumhunting happening - half the player list hasn't figured that out yet.

In post 722, Thor665 wrote:
In post 715, goodmorning wrote:ey

ey tier

you wanna stop kissing Smurf for five seconds and read thor again?

After he does I look forward to hearing what he should have seen.

A neighborhood just got claimed, how are you feeling about that?

In post 733, Thor665 wrote:
In post 730, T S O wrote:Meh.
I just got the feeling he expected people to praise the revealing of it or something.

That has less to do with the revealing and more to do with his motivation for the revealing. I would note that I was amongst the first to reveal neighbor info and have also not remotely indicated that I consider that a pro-town move. I have also asked people who consider full neighbor reveal as anti-town to explain why (with rather lackluster effort from Goodmorning to do so) and have not indicated that as anti-town or pro-town on their part either.

If your issue is Scripten expecting town vibes - then talk to him about that. The neighborhood thing is not the issue, the mentality and motivation are.

In post 742, Thor665 wrote:
In post 736, Nero Cain wrote:Who are you in a hood with?

This does not fill me with hope for your reading comprehension.

I am holding off on revealing until Goodmorning manages to get back to me with explanations on the fear of revealing and why it is pro-scum in some way.

In post 738, TierShift wrote:Izzy looks like he believes in that strongly felt nullreads are more of a commitment than soft townreads, he really does. I was wondering why you didn't see that and instead focused on the sense he wasn't making and calling him scummy over it.

Okay, well, first off, that you saw and answered my comment makes me wonder why you didn't address Goodmorning's whine to you, clarify?

As to my answer to this - if he believes it then he meets the qualifier for terrible town, and if he doesn't he meets the qualifier for scum. I agree that both of those states can exist and disagree that either one makes him not a good lynch option. I am proud that you can perfectly read his attitudes, I do not have this skill and am left to scumhunt him. You shouldn't hold that against other people. Your raised issue appears to be that "Thor is scumhunting" now - because your issue is that I didn't immediately read him as town...is that right?

In post 744, Thor665 wrote:
In post 743, TierShift wrote:What gm whine?

Iso feature...
Though it just happened like a page ago and was addressed to you.
Basically a request to stop buddying me and re-read me - you're clearly reading the current stuff so why didn't you address it?

In post 799, Thor665 wrote:
In post 782, goodmorning wrote:
In post 742, Thor665 wrote:I am holding off on revealing until Goodmorning manages to get back to me with explanations on the fear of revealing and why it is pro-scum in some way.

I've already spoken as much as I want to speak on the subject.
It's a little late now, anyway.

Well...when you're asked "why shouldn't we, I am curious?"
And your answer is "because it be bad!" and nothing else...what did you expect?
If you gave a hang you did a bad showing for yourself and the belief system you claim to espouse.

In post 831, Thor665 wrote:
In post 825, goodmorning wrote:
In post 801, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 782, goodmorning wrote:Two, actually. Vaguely annoyed.

Why are you annoyed that two hoods got claimed?

Repeat: I've already spoken about this.
Repeat: I don't care to speak any more about it.

So...no, you haven't answered it, but you refuse to.

In post 825, goodmorning wrote:Note to self:
It is not polite to ask Thor to Smurf off, even if you say please.

Note to self: it is tough to get Goodmorning to state why she wants things not done because it will aid scum...'somehow'...I think, I'm actually inventing the excuse. It's the only one that makes sense, really.

In post 828, goodmorning wrote:Does anyone know whether Thor whinges as much as Town as he does as Scum?

Are you trying to be passive aggressive? There is a thing known as my player profile - y'know, click on my name, look at all my posted in games, have near infinite meta available.

In post 868, Thor665 wrote:
In post 859, goodmorning wrote:
In post 858, goodmorning wrote:Am meta-ing Thor RIGHT NOW. Will conclude what I conclude when I conclude it.

O554 - Town Thor, no whinge
NY169 - Scum Thor (Casso), whinge

:lol:
I'm not laughing at the read so much, but because I went to look at the two games to try to understand what you would classify as which (I couldn't figure it out) but I realized one of the games was the birth of one of my favortite snappy comebacks, the ol' 20 questions remark when people are talking in circles.

In post 959, Thor665 wrote:
In post 954, goodmorning wrote:You're Scum and all the potential wagons are on Town, is that it?
Did I guess right?

I would say this sort of thing even if one of them was my scumbuddy, but, sure, if I was scum and they were all town I'd say the same. I'd also say it if I was town and with slightly more regularity depending on how much I thought I could grind town.

That said - your comment does nothing to address the purpose of my commentary nor does it actually suggest it is bad in any ay.
Good job being bad town or meh scum, I suppose. :lol:

In post 960, Thor665 wrote:
In post 859, goodmorning wrote:
In post 858, goodmorning wrote:Am meta-ing Thor RIGHT NOW. Will conclude what I conclude when I conclude it.

O554 - Town Thor, no whinge
NY169 - Scum Thor (Casso), whinge
^These are the ones I've seen so they're the ones I've started with.

She never linked them, but she did mention them.

@Muffin

In post 1022, Thor665 wrote:goodmorning - terrible...alignment uncertain ;) Meh, I'd help lynch her and consider it worthwhile probably.

In post 1033, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1029, Muffin wrote:
In post 1022, Thor665 wrote:Muffin - Not fond of hard Thor defense. Call it mildly mild on the scum side.

Don't misconstrue things please.

Attacking a really weak case on someone does not equate to "hard defending" that player.

You can consider yourself an ally of convenience if you like.

Nah. I'll agree Goodmorning's play is weaksauce, but you're attacking her logic here. There is nothing inherently scummy in having gut reads - town do it all the time, and you have not shown that Goodmorning wouldn't or doesn't do that.
You're thumping on her really aggressively for what is play that is easily either suck town or kinda weak scum, and it's your big push.

Now, maybe you're trying to read her, and that's your deal, but it does come off as weirdly defensive towards me, which makes me feel the potential of buddying and I think that leaves you deserving of a call out.
Heck, take me out of the equation and 'oddly aggressive attack on gut read' becomes your play and that's worth a narrowed set of eyes all by itself.
I do not disagree that Goodmorning is being bad - she assuredly is, and she's even playing it up like she has a plan (and well she might, but I bet it's pretty weaksauce once we see it and won't justify the lackluster play). That said - the level of your attack on it is not in proper relation to the level of her crime. So it's weird, and I find you scummy for it.

In post 1079, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1077, goodmorning wrote:eyyyyyyyyy vanity wagon got legitttt

Yeah, that wagon is super legit now - it just overflows with legitness and the power of scumhunting.

In post 1226, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1164, T S O wrote:I mean, when you asked goodmorning why they were scumreading you and you didn't get a satisfactory reply, you gave them a few jabs - surely you don't think I should just lie down while he so blatantly misreps me?

I also noted it was dumb and walked away - like you are being asked to do.

In post 1175, TierShift wrote:Explain this. He was pushing gm for a real reason for the scumread on you, remarking he didn't find gut/tone strong enough 35 pages in. That's not discrediting, nor is it buddying you. Explain how it is buddying.

That is discrediting - I know of many examples of town using gut that late into the game. Is Goodmorning known for *not* doing this? If so I will immediately retract the statement.
Otherwise it is simply a matter of opinion on the town tell, and I personally think anyone who plays like Muffin probably shouldn't be dinging gut reads.
It is buddying because I had been aware of the attack and had called it serious and he went whole hog at it. If I flipped scum, I would expect someone to consider him a scumbuddy to me for the defense - hence it is also buddying, because he's 'getting my back'.

In post 1268, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1260, goodmorning wrote:Do they not have a wagon because you townread them, or do you townread them because they don't have a wagon, I wonder.

:neutral:

Considering the only major wagon that exists is one that I built...what?
I mean, this doesn't even begin to make sense.
Though apparently you sorta agree it doesn't.

Why are you playing so terribly right now?
Should you be replacing out, or is this intentional?

In post 1279, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1271, goodmorning wrote:I literally cannot even begin to describe how hard this pinged.

I'm sorry that agreeing with you that your post was useless "pings" me.

In post 1271, goodmorning wrote:I have no real idea what you're talking about, but if this is an attempt to discredit me then I just got about 10000% more certain that I'm actually right.

I sort of feel you're discrediting yourself - you just admitted that your last five days have generated nothing.
I'm asking if you're suffering from out of game issues or if this is what we should expect from you.

That said, it is probably a discredit - because it's my stance that you are capable of playing better.

In post 1280, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1278, goodmorning wrote:Toby

I did.
It was...three results, and I don't follow the point.

omitted due to spoiler, follows lines of above post
In post 1291, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1288, goodmorning wrote:
In post 1279, Thor665 wrote:I sort of feel you're discrediting yourself - you just admitted that your last five days have generated nothing.

Really.


Reeeeeallly.

Yes.

In post 1288, goodmorning wrote:
In post 1281, Thor665 wrote:Walk me through what I'm supposed to see?

You're not supposed to see anything. That's the point.

You wanted us to iso you to show your lack of interaction with Toby, to show how you're on hold in trying to scumhunt him?
When did you decide you wanted to scumhunt him and why?

In post 1288, goodmorning wrote:
In post 1285, Thor665 wrote:In that post he did offer many reads and opinions.

I disagree.

Why?
Because "offering reads" is not really a matter of opinion, it is a factual state.

In post 1227, The Fonz wrote:[snip]


He then goes into a deeper Pere explanation.
However, what I see here is;

Pere = scum (plus multiple reasons)
He does call TSO v. Anemian 'nullish' via inference and openly questions the value of the case whether or not you like inference.
Scripten - town.
Izariel - town.
Dave - newb with potential to be town or scum but is considering him. (a fancy null read, basically)
Nero - scummy for reason stated, but a lesser read than Pere.
Boon - poor play, but don't want to lynch or see dead at this point and concider it worse play for scum (ergo - leaning town to some degree)

That is 5-7 reads depending how you want to qualify reads.
That is a post that contains reads - fact.
I suppose you can debate "many" but you can't really debate 25% of playerlist given reads on.
And at that point, what is your specific issue with him only having provided reads on around 25% of the player list?

In post 1292, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1290, goodmorning wrote:I could go through it and explain why I find it underwhelming but 1. WORDS and 2. Thor would probably butt in afterwards.

I'll butt un beforehand - maybe that will help :lol:

In post 1320, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1317, goodmorning wrote:This is better.

This is the *exact* sort of thing I have been saying to you that you were complaining was discrediting you and making me more scummy.
But when I point out that Nero isn't reading gak and playing poorly suddenly it's "better"
:neutral:
I'm good with the idea of lynching Goodmorning now.

In other news, you also didn't address any questions I asked you in my last big post communicating with you. The one I regret not seeing an answer to was a deeper explanation of saying Fonz wasn't offering reads, and also when, specifically, you decided to get a read off Toby by choosing not to interact with him.

Note that Thor was good with trying to lynch me many many posts before this.
In post 1325, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1323, goodmorning wrote:Nero is not actually reading words.
You also are not actually reading words, but it's harder to catch you at it.
I, on the other hand, am actually reading words. I'm just not writing very many. Subtle difference, I know.

:lol:

I'll accept that you're getting to my one question and will just 2nd Fonz as far as my second question goes. I find the whole concept odd, so I am looking to see it expanded on as an idea.

In post 1921, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1920, goodmorning wrote:Nobody else has made a point that someone hasn't asked them to clarify, besides which I hardly ever question people like that. I love when it happens though, it's great for reading people, getting down into their thought processes and watching them tick.

So you feel good about how everyone else has answered those questions?

In post 1920, goodmorning wrote:
In post 1918, Thor665 wrote:@Goodmorning - as long as we're discussing things, I would like to see you analyze the Thor wagon as it currently exists and express your thoughts on its current movement and what you think about it.

If you're asking me for any kind of VCA... I don't do that. If you're asking me to discuss the stated reasoning for each vote on your wagon and whether that looks kosher then I'll ask you to do the same for the Pere wagon.
Just let me know which it is.

I have already done that for the Pere wagon.
Yes, I'd love to see you do it for mine.

In post 2002, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1997, goodmorning wrote:Can we notice what Slandaar's done so far? He's tunneled me with theory questions and got into the multiball discussion, neither of which is particularly productive. Someone who thinks he's Town: why?

I am not particularly town reading him.
That said, you should be careful with all those rocks in that glass house - you are pretty much on open record for being next to useless today, so...where are you getting off complaining that the (now the second) new guy "isn't doing enough"?
It is really weird and hypocritical and not even that logical.

In post 2039, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2003, Garmr wrote:I will trust you with the dave reasoning but I showed that muffins so called attack was Smurf and went no where. Those lines I said were from his post and pretty much the only thing he said on the so called attack. So no that make thing you called attacking :roll: isn't going to win points when it has little point and leads no where.

If that was all you found than you missed/overlooked some of it - there was a point I accused him of buddying for how focused his attack on GM was. If you think there was never an attack from him then you should have issue with me making that sort of extreme statement.

In post 2008, goodmorning wrote:Thor: Am I just imagining that half the playerlist is more useless than I am?

I think so, I put you as more useless than quite a few you have marked differently.

In post 2048, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2047, goodmorning wrote:I have the strangest feeling this has to do with my weak case on you. I've done some Smurf since that, haven't you been paying attention?

I have paid attention to everything you have done this game - it wasn't hard to keep track of.
Oh, burn!

In post 2101, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2099, goodmorning wrote:Who was it that was calling this post contentful?

I did.

In post 2104, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2103, goodmorning wrote:It's not. It's a tunnel with window dressing on it.

If that is true than your reads are a toy tunnel with a chalk drawing of a window on the side.

In post 2274, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2254, goodmorning wrote:Why is Pere the leading wagon again?

Oh, I remember. It's because Thor said so.

In other news; Thor is complaining that other people aren't pushing wagons - almost as though he has a point.

(@gm)
In post 2292, Thor665 wrote:I only accuse you on not doing Smurf.

In post 2347, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2343, goodmorning wrote:[obligatory prodding at Thor post]
Maybe the Anen wagon should move to Axle?

Better yet, let's lynch Thor.[/obligatory prodding at Thor post]

Shhhh, I'm scumhunting you by not interacting with you.

In post 2392, Thor665 wrote:Were you planning to ever get around to that analysis of the wagon on me and how you feel about your co-voters and their reasons I asked for you to do?

In post 2393, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1997, goodmorning wrote:Alright, it's on the list. I'm at home all day tomorrow so...

You promised to do it Tuesday, functionally.

In post 2409, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2408, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2393, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1997, goodmorning wrote:Alright, it's on the list. I'm at home all day tomorrow so...

You promised to do it Tuesday, functionally.

That is true, sort of. Anyway, when I hit thing 2 in the list I didn't really want to do it, so I just didn't. I'll bump yours up and do it tomorrow.

I think that is true specifically - our individual date/times may be off, but a 24 hour period is still a 24 hour period.
If you are town in this game I am very sad.

In post 2413, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2410, goodmorning wrote:Saying I'm home on a day doesn't preclude the possibility that I won't be in the mood for Mafia.

Oh come on - how long exactly should it take you to (even off the top of your head) offer thoughts and opinions on a wagon on your top scumspect.
Even if you want to scroll back and look at their stated reasons (:lol:) it shouldn't take much more than...what, call it twenty minutes of research?

I'm not asking for an essay, I'm asking how you feel about the wagon you are currently on considering the votes that have supported it.
It shouldn't require a day, and even if you lazed off that day you should have been able to swing it sometime within the following 72 hours.

In post 2445, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2432, goodmorning wrote:I definitely just said I'd do it tomorrow, so why not stop being a Smurf about it?

Because this is the second time. I was a total believer of you the first time. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

In post 2450, Thor665 wrote:I don't think I've even seen any of the people voting me except for GM in days (though Nero had a hyper fail prod dodge in there I recall)
That is our 3rd biggest wagon - the wagon led by the 'tone' case and three lurksacks.
THIRD BIGGEST!

Axle *just voted* GM.
What an amazing wagon of 2!
That is going to ADD PRESSURE TO HER! :D

In post 2464, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2457, AxleGreaser wrote:Do you actually town read GoodMorning's vanity push on you?

No.
I have repeatedly described her push as terrible and her play lacking and also indicated support of the idea of lynching her.
That said - her wagon is L-10 and the Pere wagon is L-6...or something.

In post 2508, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2505, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2447, Thor665 wrote:Also I don't care, really - since I'm about the only player who tried during Day 1...shock of shocks, my wagon is the only one with weight

effort isn't indicative of alignment

I put back in the entirety of my comment - to show just how meaningless and kinda derp yours is.
I wasn't saying effort was indicative of alignment.
I was saying effort was indicative of ability to PUSH A WAGON
Dear gawd, are you scum or do you have inability to read English?

In post 2503, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2445, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2432, goodmorning wrote:I definitely just said I'd do it tomorrow, so why not stop being a Smurf about it?

Because this is the second time. I was a total believer of you the first time. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Repeat: I never said outright that I would do it tuesday. I did say outright that I would do it today.

You did say outright you would do it "tomorrow" on Monday.
In my universe that counts as saying, outright, that I should have been able to expect it within 72 hours and you failed to produce.
I will agree you said you would do it today also - pardon me for feeling a little gunshy in trusting you without constant reminders.

In post 2532, Thor665 wrote:Hey, GM, I'm keeping you in mind.

In post 2544, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2542, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2532, Thor665 wrote:Hey, GM, I'm keeping you in mind.

lolk

Well, it's not happening now. If we're all alive Tomorrow it'll happen then.

:neutral:

I'm keeping you in mind anyway.

But mostly for utter uselessness and promise breaking.

Is any of that even remotely how one speaks to their second-highest scumread?

Besides calling me useless, which he made pretty clear wasn't indicative, he used alignment-descriptive phrases only three times:
:
Good job being bad town or meh scum, I suppose.

:
You're thumping on her really aggressively for what is play that is easily either suck town or kinda weak scum, and it's your big push.

:
If you are town in this game I am very sad.


Wow.
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
Calling On Dragons coming eventually!

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Post Post #4519  (isolation #188)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:27 pm

In post 4517, Thor665 wrote:Actually seems to back my statement pretty strongly, really.

"Could be town or scum" is what you say about your second-strongest scumread?

hahahahahahahahahahahaha
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
Calling On Dragons coming eventually!

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Post Post #4523  (isolation #189)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:43 pm

In post 4521, Josh_B wrote:I guess I'm not as far behind on this subject as I thought. I'll look into early D2 to see if there's some indication. This..
In post 2, Aegor wrote:This game is Normal, which means that the following hold:
All players have one of the following alignments: Town, Mafia, Werewolf, Serial Killer.
There is at least one Mafia or Werewolf faction; either or both of these could be in the game.

although generic, has it's own implications by the fact that it's included in the OP.

Isn't that pretty much the wording off the Wiki page?

@Thor: In a 21 player game, you claim to have lacked a strong secondary scumread. 21 players. Only 1 scumread.

@Tier: How is it that you townread Thor again?
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
Calling On Dragons coming eventually!

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Post Post #4531  (isolation #190)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:29 pm

In post 4525, Josh_B wrote:GM you're in the neighborhood, what are your reads on Iz and Shiro.

Well, I'm in a neighbourhood. Anyway, Izariael reads pretty townish to me at this point, and Shiro looks more like newbTown than newbScum.

In post 4526, TierShift wrote:VOTE: nero

Good wagon.

answer question pls

In post 4530, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4523, goodmorning wrote:@Thor: In a 21 player game, you claim to have lacked a strong secondary scumread. 21 players. Only 1 scumread.

Well, you're already twisting words int hat example so I will re-state; Only 1 strong scumread - yes.
Would you like to repeat it back to me a third time and try to act shocked yet again?

Given that I was your second strongest scumread and you never called me Scum, one scumread is the most accurate truth.
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
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Post Post #4535  (isolation #191)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:41 pm

In post 4533, Scripten wrote:
In post 4531, goodmorning wrote:Given that I was your second strongest scumread and you never called me Scum, one scumread is the most accurate truth.

This is pedantic. It does not help your case on Thor.

He had one fucking scumread after so many pages.

Give me a fucking break. He said I was his next highest scumread. He expressed his opinion of my alignment as "Town OR Scum". This isn't just words I'm talking about here.
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
Calling On Dragons coming eventually!

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Post Post #4588  (isolation #192)  » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:52 am

In post 4554, beastcharizard wrote:So no one hammered Thor? I am confused.

reinoe fakedoublevotehammered. Please contribute now.

In post 3622, TierShift wrote:In I thought Thor was trying to shift suspicion onto garmr without explicitly stating it. That's why I asked why he asked. Then, in thor says where it's actually at: just as he is, I'm townreading garmr for the replace-out. However, I wasn't very open about it, basically because everyone was yelling at me it wasn't true. (wait I'm totally noting that I think there is scum in one of those nay-sayers).

3507 made no sense at all for a scum player. Not only was he stating a townread on the (only) counterwagon (which can be done for towncred), he was also actively trying to get other people (me) to townread garmr.

Why doesn't that make sense for a Scum player? Hell, I think I've done exactly that myself as Scum. Maybe I'll go look for that.

Then in 3613 I see him stating something that looks like final reads, without trying to take credit for doing so. Instead, he is encouraging people to join his wagon, if only to do something with their vote, to show where their intentions lie. Not trying to push counterwagons but trying t get other people to do somethong so he can read them.

Tl;dr: he's close to getting lynched and gives no shit about that, but DOES give a shit about why he's getting lynched.
So? Looks to me like martyr play. People eat that shit up and it always makes you look super Town if you can pull it off.

Scumhunting still in the face of getting the noose.

Having a popular read ("the replace out from Garmr looked alignment-indicative") =/= scumhunting.
He's still dancing around having to provide any sort of case on me, he was voting me for ages with no case which is awfully hypocritical of him if nothing else, he hasn't provided a case on dave, whom he is now voting, his case on Shiro was made of lies...

I don't know what you're seeing that I'm not seeing but I would love to live in that fantasy land.

In post 4581, Slandaar wrote:The only valid votes now are:
Dave
Josh
Boon
beast
THOR

WE ARE LYNCHING THOR
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
Calling On Dragons coming eventually!

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Post Post #4589  (isolation #193)  » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:52 am

OHFFS
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
Calling On Dragons coming eventually!

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Post Post #4614  (isolation #194)  » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:15 pm

I won't vote dave but I would vote Nero or beast.

However, Thor needs lynching.
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Post Post #4696  (isolation #195)  » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:51 am

In post 4632, Shiro wrote:Iz why ? How was his push on Thor then vote on GM and the back to Thor cause test town like ?
^Gm same question cause u said u aren't voting him.

Scum don't usually like to draw attention to themselves like that, plus his overall play looks p Town.

@Tier: You know what would be cool? If you answered my fucking questions.
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Post Post #4702  (isolation #196)  » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:15 am

In post 4698, TierShift wrote:
In post 4502, goodmorning wrote:Fonz/Nero/Thor y/y?

prob not fonz

Whát other quesitons?

The ones in response to the post you townread thor in

It was in that quote I just broke:
In post 4588, goodmorning wrote:
In post 3622, TierShift wrote:In I thought Thor was trying to shift suspicion onto garmr without explicitly stating it. That's why I asked why he asked. Then, in thor says where it's actually at: just as he is, I'm townreading garmr for the replace-out. However, I wasn't very open about it, basically because everyone was yelling at me it wasn't true. (wait I'm totally noting that I think there is scum in one of those nay-sayers).

3507 made no sense at all for a scum player. Not only was he stating a townread on the (only) counterwagon (which can be done for towncred), he was also actively trying to get other people (me) to townread garmr.

Why doesn't that make sense for a Scum player? Hell, I think I've done exactly that myself as Scum. Maybe I'll go look for that.

Then in 3613 I see him stating something that looks like final reads, without trying to take credit for doing so. Instead, he is encouraging people to join his wagon, if only to do something with their vote, to show where their intentions lie. Not trying to push counterwagons but trying t get other people to do somethong so he can read them.

Tl;dr: he's close to getting lynched and gives no shit about that, but DOES give a shit about why he's getting lynched.

So? Looks to me like martyr play. People eat that shit up and it always makes you look super Town if you can pull it off.

Scumhunting still in the face of getting the noose.

Having a popular read ("the replace out from Garmr looked alignment-indicative") =/= scumhunting.
He's still dancing around having to provide any sort of case on me, he was voting me for ages with no case which is awfully hypocritical of him if nothing else, he hasn't provided a case on dave, whom he is now voting, his case on Shiro was made of lies...

I don't know what you're seeing that I'm not seeing but I would love to live in that fantasy land.


There was also a question about how you could possibly townread fonz but that one is less important.

In post 4700, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4696, goodmorning wrote:Scum don't usually like to draw attention to themselves like that

Is this your opinion of Nero scum or generic scum?
Because I know you wouldn't use that as a town tell for me, so...?

Average generic Scum, but I was talking about dave in particular rather than Nero.

You're not particularly average.
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Post Post #4739  (isolation #197)  » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:34 pm

Too tired for this game right now, but
1. Thor's Scum
2. We're down 7 Town, could be on or near LyLo.
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Post Post #4740  (isolation #198)  » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:35 pm

Oh, and also dave was obvtown so everyone really really needs to stop being in thor's cult of personality or joindate awe or hero worship or whatever the fuck it is.
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
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Post Post #4761  (isolation #199)  » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:08 pm

In post 4759, T S O wrote:why don't you go push some lynches on town

ilu tso
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