NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #13 (isolation #0) » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:28 pm

Post by TierShift »

/confirm as town 3-shot reviver

Let's hope for a good time!
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Post Post #46 (isolation #1) » Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:08 pm

Post by TierShift »

Disclaimer: this is my first large game and I have no idea how to approach it.
In post 23, Thor665 wrote:
Vote: Scripten

Why is this not a selfvote?
In post 26, Csareo wrote:Can you revive yourself?

Yeah m8 I'll come back 3 times pal
In post 26, Csareo wrote:
In post 24, Egg wrote:
Vote Pere


I honestly think he is scum.

FoS Thor

^in case I'm wrong. You know why.

Also there is nothing joking about this post.

I'm completely serious.

For real.

^__^

Please elaborate?

Why did you ask him to elaborate? Did you truly think he had a scumread on pere?
In post 33, Csareo wrote:Are you trying to imply something. I'm curious on why you immediately latch on to this player as the game begins.

Wha does this mean?
In post 35, Csareo wrote:What reasons do you have to believe they weren't being serious? I don't like the idea of you white-washing a "three shot reviver" claim.
I'm going to be looking closer at your interactions with TierShift in the future.

How many games have you played on this forum?

VOTE: csareo
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Post Post #53 (isolation #2) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:37 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 51, Egg wrote:Tier, I legitimately think Pere is scum.

Hat?
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Post Post #69 (isolation #3) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:06 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 60, T S O wrote:This is the first game I have ever seen from Csareo where his opening post was not astoundingly scummy. He must be Town!

Was he scum in all the other games?

I'm not sure how large neighbourhoods work but I'm sad I'm not in it. There is probably scum in there, but then again there is probably scum in every random 5-player-group.

P-edit wow so many posts
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Post Post #73 (isolation #4) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:08 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 67, T S O wrote:BE's Mind Mafia, page 1, enter Csareo.

He was town in that one. I don't know his alignment in the other.

So uh, you claim his town openings are scummy and he shows a non-scummy opening here, so he's town?
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Post Post #75 (isolation #5) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:10 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 64, Thor665 wrote:
In post 43, Cho wrote:Cho claimed Mafia 2-Shot Even-Night Bulletproof Vigilante in the neighborhood last night.

VOTE: Cho

I believe the claim.

Congratulations, you are a pro-scum and weak player who appreciates even worse gambits than Nero Cain.

VOTE: TierShift
Deal with it.
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Post Post #78 (isolation #6) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:12 am

Post by TierShift »

Yeah, you could've expressed that better.

So then we'll use the one game that has finished. He opened scummily there and was town. How does a non-scummy opening here imply town alignment, then?
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Post Post #83 (isolation #7) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:17 am

Post by TierShift »

That doesn't follow. My scum play used to be friendly, helpful and somewhat townish in the early stages of the game, while my town play was intentionally lazy and abrasive to get some reactions.
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Post Post #84 (isolation #8) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:19 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 79, Thor665 wrote:
In post 75, TierShift wrote:
In post 64, Thor665 wrote:
In post 43, Cho wrote:Cho claimed Mafia 2-Shot Even-Night Bulletproof Vigilante in the neighborhood last night.

VOTE: Cho

I believe the claim.

Congratulations, you are a pro-scum and weak player who appreciates even worse gambits than Nero Cain.

VOTE: TierShift
Deal with it.

Wow, such brilliant play, be still my heart - your scumhunting is of high standards and proves my point wrong.

Thank you! Do you need some advice to get up to my standards?
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Post Post #99 (isolation #9) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:30 am

Post by TierShift »

@csareo: I'm also a vigilante. And a cop.

Gonna watch this play out.
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Post Post #100 (isolation #10) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:32 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 97, Csareo wrote:VOTE: TSO
Something's off about your play this game, and how this wagon formed on me.
I don't like it.....

What about the wagon formation is wrong?
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Post Post #103 (isolation #11) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:33 am

Post by TierShift »

I joke about everything.
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Post Post #107 (isolation #12) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:35 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 104, Csareo wrote:It started to quick

?
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Post Post #109 (isolation #13) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:38 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 106, Csareo wrote:I've seen town TSO, and this is not town TSO.

1 game meta? what are the main differences with him before?
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Post Post #110 (isolation #14) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:39 am

Post by TierShift »

TSO what is your read on csareo right now?
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Post Post #112 (isolation #15) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:43 am

Post by TierShift »

talking about that...
In post 49, Boonskiies wrote:
unvote

why the unvote?
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Post Post #122 (isolation #16) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:19 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 119, Csareo wrote:Sorry, tiershift is tunneling me

I am?
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Post Post #125 (isolation #17) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:21 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 117, goodmorning wrote:I'm 99.9999999999% sure that was a good old dose of Tier sarcasm.

I'm also a gunsmith??? :D

Noting egg's 124 for future reference.
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Post Post #221 (isolation #18) » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:55 am

Post by TierShift »

Blugh large games move too fast.

Csareo is town due to this post.
In post 93, Csareo wrote:
In post 90, T S O wrote:Idiocy confirmed!

PEdit: Sweetheart, I'm not sure if you were reading or not, but I was actually the one calling you town.

I don't like how you and garmr are trying to rack me up as the VI.
It seems like you're trying to set me up as your buddy, but be immortalized in the town bloc once I flip town.

Not sure about anyone else atm.
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Post Post #270 (isolation #19) » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:50 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 250, Aneninen wrote:TSO knows how terrible Csareo is on Day1 and he also knows that he was town in that game. I simply don't understand why TSO's maintaining a long interaction with Csareo – he must have known that by getting involved in that would increase the "noise" in the thread. It's definitely anti-town and – in my opinion – scummy too.

So, you're assuming TSO only talks to csareo to generate noise? When has he started doing so and has he done all along?

In post 266, davesaz wrote:Getting town vibes on goodmorning.

Why? What do you think of csareo/tso?

VOTE: TSO
Because the csareo wagon is shit and this one's decent?
I hugely dislike keeping the vote on csareo early game.

Oh and I have no idea where my vote was nor what the VC is at.

Closer looks will be taken at garmr, TSO, anen and Nero.
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Post Post #274 (isolation #20) » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:11 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 271, davesaz wrote:I only said gm was a vibe. Don't see scum going into that much trouble or detail. Content can certainly sway me on that.

Let me quote gm's sig for you:
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT

I see csareo/tso as likely to be tvt, but that is not a firm position yet.

Why do you think it's tvt? What in csareo's behaviour makes you think so? What in TSO's behaviour makes you think so?

P-edit:
Dawww <3
More people should sheep me
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Post Post #292 (isolation #21) » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:37 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 290, davesaz wrote:TSO looks like angry young person to me, not scum. That's fairly definitive. Scum don't do this except when thrashing around right before a lynch.

That is easy as shit to fake as scum. I do this when people accuse me of stupid things as scum.
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Post Post #297 (isolation #22) » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:01 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 296, davesaz wrote:I'm not saying T S O is town as a result, just saying it's null. Using meta to call it scum may be valid if he's scum when angry more often than not, but I can't use this directly.

This is the worst kind of meta tbh
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Post Post #336 (isolation #23) » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:46 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 309, T S O wrote:
In post 292, TierShift wrote:
In post 290, davesaz wrote:TSO looks like angry young person to me, not scum. That's fairly definitive. Scum don't do this except when thrashing around right before a lynch.

That is easy as shit to fake as scum. I do this when people accuse me of stupid things as scum.


Well, that's fantastic that you do it as scum, but I don't see why that's any way relevant to what I do as scum.

In post 297, TierShift wrote:
In post 296, davesaz wrote:I'm not saying T S O is town as a result, just saying it's null. Using meta to call it scum may be valid if he's scum when angry more often than not, but I can't use this directly.

This is the worst kind of meta tbh


My least favorite type of meta is when you use your own to somehow conclude I could easily be scum, but sure.

I was saying that being angry for getting stupidly attacked is super easy to fake as scum. I'm not saying you're scum for it, as you seem to conclude, but it's more null than anything. Why did you feel the need to defend the tell dave had on you?
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Post Post #342 (isolation #24) » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:21 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 338, Aneninen wrote:@Tiershift: TSO started interacting with Csareo around post 90 or so and maybe he stopped doing it right before your post, 270. After that he started talking with Cho.

This doesn't answer my question of if he interacted with csareo just to generate noise. I wasn't asking where they interacted, I was asking where the interactioswere aimed at generating noise.
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Post Post #359 (isolation #25) » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:03 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 346, Garmr wrote:I'm going to be honest I'm lost now and don't know what to think.


UNVOTE: toby

I don't like this post and I'll research you now.
In post 357, Aneninen wrote:@TierShift. I don't know whether it was intentional but I still thought it was a noise.

Ok, I get you. You're arguing it's noise, while others are arguing "scum would never be so abrasive/genuinely pissed". What do you think about the latter take?
Though, I must admit that I might have misread the situation because I don't find entertaining reading Csareo-posts. If I weren't strongly against WotC-s I'd choose Csareo for that. But, I think his gameplay may improve later.

Csareo has been replaced now by grayfoxxxx.
And stop saying you're shit. You don't feign confidence, push your own ideas and so far seem to keep an open mind, which makes you better than ~65% of this site.
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Post Post #361 (isolation #26) » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:28 pm

Post by TierShift »

Garmr's ISO is a bit....bland. Garmr, why do you townread TSO? Why did your read on toby change? Why is boonskiies null/scum?

Tobyloby makes me feel extremely comfortable and I have the feeling I know her. Her pushes are coherent and thoroughly understandable. I'm wanting her to be town. Toby, you mentioned other people backing off the csareo wagon being scummy. Who would classify as such besides nero?

Nero cain's vote doesn't match his thoughts, as tobyloby pointed out. He eventually says he thinks csareo is town and the wagon is scummy but refuses to vote on the wagon. Why is that, nero cain?

P-ed: here are some questions garmr
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Post Post #363 (isolation #27) » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:23 am

Post by TierShift »

Why so minor?
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Post Post #650 (isolation #28) » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:34 am

Post by TierShift »

I'm having trouble with large game speed. Catchup friday/saturday-ish.
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Post Post #713 (isolation #29) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:38 am

Post by TierShift »

Spoiler: I don't like this post
In post 368, Izariael wrote:
In post 356, GrayFoxxxx wrote:I'm seeing TSO as town. I have been in some pissing matches (looking at you Thor), but TSO took it to another level. I know effort doesn't indicate alignment but TSOs effort and willingness to respond to everything indicates null town at the least.
The content of his effort doesn't
feel
scummy.
I think he should try not to tunnel so much because it gives scum some leverage when pushing a wagon.

Cho or tier could be scum but Chos posts are horrible. I think he jumped on an easy wagon and he has been ambiguous about it.
Sheeping isn't towny at all this early.
youre hiding behind someone else's actions with out even having a real read on the person you are sheeping.
Has a slight buddying feel to it as well.


This is after a quick read and a phone post. I would liketo touch on the Nero/Toby duel after I reread.
My strongest town read is good morning
. Not any easy reads either way.

-shitty phone post

I find myself agreeing with most of this post upon catching up on the thread. Even beyond this post, I'm willing to give the slot a town pass for now. Csareo seemed like he dove off the deep end but forgot his little floaters...

-------------------------------------------------

On my first read-through, goodmorning was top townread, but now that I've gone back I'm kind of second-guessing that read. Didn't care much for 239 in particular, her defense of T S O seems a bit excessive, and then it gets followed up by this:
In post 349, goodmorning wrote:So I've found myself defending TSO. That's pretty strong for me. This is where I figure out whether it's because of circumstance or is an actual townread.

In post 365, goodmorning wrote:I seem to have concluded that TSO is Town.

I'm putting her as town for now, but this did smell a little funky. Smells like goddamn "eau de oiseau" or something...

-------------------------------------------------

I'm hesitant to lean town on T S O. I'm not sure that his interaction with Csareo is alignment-indicative, but it seems genuine. Probably gonna hold back on a read for now until something piques my interest from him.

-------------------------------------------------

Top scumread would be Scripten. I'm irked by everything in his ISO. Non-committal, flimsy reads and a lackadaisical vote on top wagon are raising my hackles.

VOTE: Scripten

In post 376, Thor665 wrote:
Well, your presented case on him is pretty paper thin as stands, so it's not like you're even seeing anything.
My read on him is more one of gut and 'I agree with that' but I like how he singled out Tier as looking town and didn't mention GM - which is where I'm at and feels a logical town place to be rather than a scum looking to toss out some easy town reads.

I like you, thor. You're probably town. I like the non-read on gm that I am feelng myself.

In post 388, Thor665 wrote:[@pere:]
Your post here is shockingly empty.

Agreed.
In post 391, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 46, TierShift wrote:Disclaimer: this is my first large game and I have no idea how to approach it.

In post 75, TierShift wrote:
VOTE: TierShift
Deal with it.


This would be the scum approach to dealing with a previously unknown environment.

If this is a serious post, please elaborate.
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Post Post #718 (isolation #30) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:47 am

Post by TierShift »

Yo yo gm soon I'm only on like page 18
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Post Post #727 (isolation #31) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:58 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 407, TobyLoby wrote:
@Tiershift
,

In post 359, TierShift wrote:I don't like this post and I'll research you now.


What about Gamr's post don't you like?

The fact that he was 'lost' at a time in day 1 where reads are being formed and confusion is low. I didn't find it likely for town to be lost in such a spot, but scum can obviously say they're lost. I'm a little bit more comforted by recent garmr posting, but still bland bland bland. I'll see after full catchup.

In post 412, Cho wrote:Also, my vote on T S O was premature and fueled by illogical desires. I think he's town.

VOTE: davesaz

This is a temporary OMGUS vote, in lieu of a solid scumread to focus on at the moment. I'm a bit disconnected from this game.

What happened to sheeping me?
Spoiler: anen post
In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Catching-up.

Tiershift,
"You're arguing it's noise, while others are arguing "scum would never be so abrasive/genuinely pissed". What do you think about the latter take?"
– to tell the truth, I don't remember whether you asked this about TSO or Csareo. As for TSO, check the latter part and he gave scum vibes at that point of the game. GrayFox may be town, because of his catchup (at that point).

Garmr, : This was just WTF. What Tha Fukk.

Izariael. "The owls are not what they seem". ^_^

Thor, – goodpost.

Goodmorning, – can you explain your townread on TSO?

Toby, – also, why are you townreading TSO?
"Anen coming into the thread after RVS and posting Csareo meta while not commentating on his personal feelings of Csareo's play is more weird than backing off. It's excusing Csareo's behavior using meta without commenting on what is going on here. Also, when I see town meta used as reasoning to maybe excuse someone's play, I feel like I should be reading it as townie and not to read as null."

Maybe I failed to express myself before. Csareo's gameplay in that game was &#@%!NoobScum and he was town. I simply don't think that he could perform (or now: could have performed) a better gameplay as scum. That'swhy he was null. Do you understand it now?

Cho, – thanks for that OMGUS vote, that really helped a lot. ^_^ (Again, why are you townreading TSO?) Plus, Toby pointed it out that Davesaz isn't voting for you.

Garmr, – that vote, uhhh. If you have told that you had voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it. But, what kind of reasoning was that?



_____

TSO. What I don't like is here:
– it's just a feeling but these seemed to be fake.
"I don't lurk as scum. Aneninen, Cho, Egg, Thor and Pere have all seen my scumgame when it's working decently. You can ask them."

"I really don't agree with anything Aneninen is saying right now."
– soooo, if I posted I knew how you played as scum would you disagree with me? ^_^
– whattafukk was that bullshyt? A quote-wall which contains nothing from or about me and asking Thor about me? How does that make sense? ( – what kind of explanation was that?
"That quote string is me going through the thread convinced I was right - ignore it."
– What did you examine?)


_____

PeregrineV-mix.
"Anything I should look for?"

– a naked vote right after Izariael's vote (in that post Izariael wrote 1 line about Scripten) is FoS.
– that's pigeon poop. Even Izariael didn't understand the sheeping.
And from this point, those slow, over-detailed null-catchups – including the random votes and the joke-claims. , , .

He must be scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PeregrineV

_____
some reads.

Tiershift is town. I like his posts. I'm almost ready to sheep him if needed. (Isn't it ironic, Cho? ^_^)
Thor is town. His posts are good, they are about scumhunting. (Also, I've seen town-Thor and scum-Thor – though only 1–1 games – and This is Town-thor. He's another player I'd sheep if needed ^_^)
Toby is town, I think.
Cho – unsure. I didn't find her scummy before but that vote was uhh.
TSO is scummy. See the part above.
Garmr is FoS-Scum.
Goodmorning is still town, no change here.
GrayFox may be town but we need more posts.

I see reluctancy to give stronger stances than this. The pere read is based on bullshit. I find the reactions to 360 and 412 scummy. Feels like he doesn't want to get associated with anyone or speak up to anyone.
In post 422, T S O wrote:You got your day of grace, Aneninen, it's gone.

Unvote
Vote: Aneninen

I can appreciate this vote.
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Post Post #734 (isolation #32) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:14 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 425, Garmr wrote:
In post 424, Aneninen wrote:@Gammrnmhrm
"Well if the only thing that strikes me are scum points thenwhy should I think his town?"
– You don't have to. But, frankly is he your strongest scumread now?
"You just made my point even stronger. Dodging subjects is town how?"
– No, I don't like that either. I just don't understand why you mentioned the Csareo-subject. You could have talked about anything else too.

1.Yes he is
2.Because I was asked about my thoughts at the time or at least I took it that way and that was the most relevant subject at the time. The cho subject was still ongoing (still kinda is) and not at it's peak.

This is lame, super lame. The question is useless and the answer is made in a too serious manner. Marking as possible buddy tell for later.
In post 459, Thor665 wrote:
In post 458, Izariael wrote:You can hope all you like, but I was srs. Nothing wrong with committing to a null.

Except trying to take credit for it while bashing someone offering mild alignment leans as weak - then there IS a problem with committing to it.

I COMMIT TO THIS NULL READ...by the way, this other guy isn't getting behind his town adn scum reads other than to say he "feels" this way about them. That's the scummiest thing in this thread!

I would be okay lynching Izariael now.

Are you serious? Why is iza's behaviour scummy? (As in, why are scum nore likely to do it than town, don't give a dumb answer)
In post 464, Boonskiies wrote:Anyhoosies, I don't like that Cho keeps making the mafia claim joke, (he did it in neighborhood along with doing it on his first post). It looks like a thing mafia might do to seem like a joke, and make people go, "Oh lookie here, they are making a joke, HAHAHAHA, THAT'S FUNNY! He can't really be scum!" And that's scummy. Also, he is making up reasons for why would I as scum scenarios, like outing the neighborhood. Seems planned. YAWWWWW.


Vote: Cho

I like this post but then again I am assuming boonskiies to be some sort of abomination of a player..
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Post Post #737 (isolation #33) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:32 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 486, Egg wrote:
Tier to TSO wrote:Why did you feel the need to defend the tell dave had on you?


Why shouldn't he? Also, it seems weird that you would shoot down the anger town tell as easy to fake only to call it null when questioned further on it. And when I ISO'd you for TSO mentions, I found a lot of mentions of him, but couldn't tell what your actual read on him was until I saw your vote on him. Everything from you about TSO seems off to me.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. If a towntell is easy to fake, it is null, since both scum and town do it. About the rest of the TSO mentions, I can't help you. Currently I like his anen push and thus think he might be town.

Also, can you explain this:
Tier wrote:Tobyloby makes me feel extremely comfortable and I have the feeling I know her. Her pushes are coherent and thoroughly understandable. I'm wanting her to be town.

It seems like a weird thing to say.

It's exactly what it says. She makes me comfortable and I hope that she is town, because she seems like a great asset to whichever alignment she's playing. I have her at decently town atm.

I don't understand why you focus on the things you focus.
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Post Post #738 (isolation #34) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:34 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 735, Thor665 wrote:
In post 734, TierShift wrote:Are you serious? Why is iza's behaviour scummy? (As in, why are scum nore likely to do it than town, don't give a dumb answer)

The only reason that unexplained reads are scummy is because they are easily changeable.
That is the core definition of a null read as well.
I will agree that Izzy is making big noise about how well explained his null read was - but it doesn't change what a null read is nor does it change the only issue with unexplained reads.
Therefore, he's doing something, calling it townish, and complaining that someone is doing something different and calling it scummy - while blind to the fact that it is the same type of pro-scum play.
Making him either town who is dangerous to have in the game due to inability to read below the surface or scum.
Both making him a viable lynch option to me.

What's your issue with my stance?
Don't give a dumb answer.

Izzy looks like he believes in that strongly felt nullreads are more of a commitment than soft townreads, he really does. I was wondering why you didn't see that and instead focused on the sense he wasn't making and calling him scummy over it.
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Post Post #740 (isolation #35) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:43 am

Post by TierShift »

Are those two neighbourhoods fully claimed already?
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Post Post #743 (isolation #36) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:06 am

Post by TierShift »

You seem to be addressing me as though I've been shitting on you, which I haven't. What's up with the attitude?

What gm whine?
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Post Post #746 (isolation #37) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:14 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 744, Thor665 wrote:Hint: I am scumhunting you.

That is not an excuse for your tone.

I did address gm's post, more after dinner.
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Post Post #750 (isolation #38) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:00 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 748, Garmr wrote:-_- are you fucking kidding me tier shift walk out this door right now. I was already thinking annienen was null- scum when he tried to chainsaw me on boon and couldn't respond and your trying to pin that moment as when I thought annienen might be scum. I may be newish thanks to my ban but I'm not fucking so stupid to let someone like you try to misrep me here. PS asking who is your top scum read is not a stupid question either.

I'm pointing out I found it weak. What about it is misrepping?
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Post Post #754 (isolation #39) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:17 am

Post by TierShift »

Thor, to me it seemed obvious that he was in fact thinking that his strong commitment to nullreads meant something. That doesn't make him look scummy in my book, it's just a different (and wrong, imo) take on theory. You were stating that different take made him scummy, but that doesn't work for me and it seemed to me you were overly focusing on the words instead of the intent. That was the issue I had with your read on izi.

Only now have you said that this different take on theory might be scum faking it and you're insinuating that that is what you were thinking earlier. But you didn't say that earlier and I did not know.

So tell me what it is, what he was scummy for:
1. Getting his theory wrong
2. Possibly faking wrong theory

You were arguing 1 and now you seem to be arguing 2. That's inconsistent.

@garmr: oh, my bad. When I say buddy tell I mean scummbuddy tell. I saw it as two scumbuddies sharing some words just for the sake of having shared some words later. I was only marking it as a consideration for if either of you flips scum.
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Post Post #760 (isolation #40) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:47 am

Post by TierShift »

Okay thor, we seem not to be on the same page.

How things seemed to have gone according to me:

You call iza out for his flawed logic and say in the same post you are willing to lynch him.
This led me to believe you thought iza was scummy for flawed theory, which I took issue with. However, the quote below says you found it deserving of something resembling a PL, instead of finding it scummy.

thor wrote:
In post 754, TierShift wrote:You were arguing 1 and now you seem to be arguing 2. That's inconsistent.

I actually argued that #1 meant he deserved death,
I never argued that it made him scummy.

Next quote, however, shows you did find him scummy at that time, presumably for messing up theory.

You have not really addressed why you had issue with me questioning him
or finding his answers scummy.


I only take issue with you finding him scummy for genuine, flawed logic. It seemed to be you were doing that, but currently it is not clear to me anymore.
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Post Post #776 (isolation #41) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:12 am

Post by TierShift »

Okay thor, I understand now. You captured the issue I had with your posting in 762. Just remember that if you say something like 'I want to lynch you now', it makes people think you scumread said person.

Just this one quote doesn't make sense. Haven't we both agreed that iza did not in fact produce scummy content (which I thought you were arguing) or town content (which you think I'm arguing, but I'm not!), but that the scripten scumread was null behaviour? Then how does the next quote in which you call him scummy for it make sense?
In post 756, Thor665 wrote:You have not really addressed why you had issue with me questioning him or finding his answers scummy.
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Post Post #781 (isolation #42) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:33 am

Post by TierShift »

I do not really feel strongly in any way about peregrine's reads list on page 21. The gm scumread is okay, I guess.
In post 521, Muffin wrote:
Then, when called on your shitty vote by me you:
  • tried to paint my attack on your shitty vote as a chainsaw defense of scripten

  • posted a big giant reads list stretching something scripten wrote to fit your pre-existing vote


I'm not sure how any of those things come from a town frame of mind.

This post is shitty and makes me not want to vote peregrine at all.
In post 538, goodmorning wrote:
In post 519, T S O wrote:
In post 516, T S O wrote:What's your read on Aneninen?

Light Townread.

Why?


I'm exhausted and will make a better vote at the end of catchups, tomorrow probably.
UNVOTE:
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Post Post #784 (isolation #43) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:39 am

Post by TierShift »

Can someone link me to the neighbourhood claims? Or even better, make a neat list?
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Post Post #786 (isolation #44) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:47 am

Post by TierShift »

Wasn't thor in a neighbourhood different from those?
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Post Post #787 (isolation #45) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:48 am

Post by TierShift »

Thor, please confirm if you're part of a neighbourhood or not.
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Post Post #790 (isolation #46) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:51 am

Post by TierShift »

Yeah. But that's not enough to certainly know he's in a neighbourhood, now is it?
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Post Post #793 (isolation #47) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:00 pm

Post by TierShift »

You'll see where this is going after thor answers the question.
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Post Post #823 (isolation #48) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:52 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 799, Thor665 wrote:I would think my other comment of 'I am in a neighborhood and not claiming it yet' would remove all doubt.

Where is this post?

Response to inquiry when I have time.
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Post Post #837 (isolation #49) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:13 am

Post by TierShift »

Thor, I find me repeating myself. I also want to say you're a fucking snoc for attributing the misunderstanding to me alone.
In post 799, Thor665 wrote:You leapt to his defense and had issue with my conclusions as regards him - which, by definition, means you have to have a town read there or there would be no issue to raise with me and what I said.
If your read of him was 'null' for instance...that would mean that you would understand his reads were screwy and would have agreed with me and, if you had decided to call it out, your language would have been one of 'what scum motive do you see in his screwy logic' as opposed to your chosen track.

I can take issue with someone calling null behaviour scummy (which I thought you were doing) without having a townread on said person. That is not at all a requirement. I have no idea why you feel I should have approached you differently than I have. Quote where I express a townread on iza. I only expressed feelings that him thinking nullreads can be committed to was genuine. That is not equal to a townread.

1. Explain your specific issue with how I approached him (even working within the misunderstanding you're now admitting to)
2. Then describe your chosen approach and why you thought it was a good approach.

1. You called null behaviour scummy (which is the misunderstanding I was working with). That is my specific issue. Scum do that.
2. I approached you by asking if you seriously found him scummy for that. You didn't try to clear up the misunderstanding, so I kept working on the assumption that you found him scummy for it. I then defended him on that assumption. No regrets.
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Post Post #838 (isolation #50) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:16 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 831, Thor665 wrote:My Neighborhood is me, Pere, and Egg.

Shit. I found egg slipping knowledge of the neighbourhood in , which is why I posted . There defnitely hadn't been enough info to conclude you were in a neighbourhood, so I hoped egg wasn't in your neighbourhood and scumslipped.
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Post Post #839 (isolation #51) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:22 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 827, goodmorning wrote:It is actually a note to Thor, asking him politely to fuck off but not directly so I still have plausible deniability when he inevitably chooses to be offended by it.

:lol:
In post 828, goodmorning wrote:Does anyone know whether Thor whinges as much as Town as he does as Scum?

I was wondering if it is alignment-indicative for thor too.
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Post Post #845 (isolation #52) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:00 am

Post by TierShift »

A snob, yes, a snob.
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Post Post #847 (isolation #53) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:09 am

Post by TierShift »

Nah I'm not really interested. Convince me.
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Post Post #851 (isolation #54) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:32 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 848, Thor665 wrote:If he had openly stated he was skimming/sipping stuff - no worries.
But he didn't, he chose to present like he read.
He was probably lying about that.
Why do you think town Pere would do that?

Is scumperegrine known to do these things?
I'll reread when completing catchups.
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Post Post #864 (isolation #55) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:02 pm

Post by TierShift »

This readslist is shittier than anything pere has presented imo
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Post Post #867 (isolation #56) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:28 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 588, Cho wrote:I'm fairly sure this game is multiball, considering the moderator's own posts in Mafia Discussion that were highly enthusiastic toward multiball.

In post 592, Cho wrote:
In post 588, Cho wrote:I'm fairly sure this game is multiball, considering the moderator's own posts in Mafia Discussion that were highly enthusiastic toward multiball.


Disregard this post. Wrong moderator.

This is town thought process.
In post 591, Cho wrote:Sure.

Whenever someone is called scummy for bringing up multiball, I generally disagree. The main exception is in situations further on or late-game where a "what if it's multiball" comment can throw town's plans for a loop, or when it seems to be designed to instill (usually role-related) paranoia.

I disagree with PeregrineV, or anyone really, saying that multiball discussion is scummy at this point in time. I used to think those who called bringing up multiball scummy were scum themselves, but lately it seems that there's a large portion of the userbase that whether town or scum seems intent on continuing to push "scumtells" that are either outdated or never existed globally in the first place.

In this case, while I have a slight bias against PeregrineV since I felt we were receiving different treatments while we both weren't caught up, I don't think it has much bearing on PeregrineV's alignment. (I do see him as one of the players who sticks to using certain scumtell-catches that I disagree with.) I would feel validated if he were scum. But I don't feel ready to make any sort of judgment on him yet, and part of the reason why is because I'm still in a state of perpetual catch-up. So many pages yet to read, and every single time I log on, I just want to "restart" from the latest page I see.

Do you understand this, or rather, follow my train of thought?

And I like this post.
In post 605, Thor665 wrote:
I will agree the wiki defines multiball as notincluding SKs.
I will also say I have been in a game witha 2-player SK.

That said - if you look at my comment to Nero it clearly included the idea of 'any scum role that is not aligned with some other scum role'

Also, if I had clarified SK - I understand that 'SK hunting' is also considered a scumtell (or SK tell) so I don't actually see the point of even trying to draw the difference here.

Do you disagree that my comment means what I said it means here? And if you do, please explain why.

Jesus do you ever admit it you're wrong when you are?
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Post Post #869 (isolation #57) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:41 pm

Post by TierShift »

catch-up sorta finished.

Boon, claim your role if it confirms multiball.

As much as I hate voting with thor, peregrine's read on thor for the multiball comment is actually scummy as fuck.

VOTE: pere
Shit.

closer looks at anen, muffin and iza coming up tomorrow.
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Post Post #879 (isolation #58) » Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:07 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 870, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 869, TierShift wrote:Boon, claim your role if it confirms multiball.

no. Do not claim, boon.

Why?

Softclaiming is the worst. He felt his claim was beneficial earlier, so it must be now.
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Post Post #906 (isolation #59) » Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:25 am

Post by TierShift »

Idk I like gm's vote somehow
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Post Post #908 (isolation #60) » Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:36 am

Post by TierShift »

I don't think so.
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Post Post #911 (isolation #61) » Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:47 am

Post by TierShift »

I just don't necessarily townread him and like this sentiment being present in others too. I have a feeling he is willfully clogging up the thread with all his nitpickyness, but that might also be a playstyle thing.
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Post Post #921 (isolation #62) » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:26 am

Post by TierShift »

Omitting full arguments for reads is not being concise, it's being incomplete.
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Post Post #923 (isolation #63) » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:42 am

Post by TierShift »

Your answer to 'your reads are shitty' is: 'I'm cutting down on walls'. So reducing posting length makes your reads shittier. And if you remove only non-vital information, they don't get shittier. Which is why I think you removed vital information.
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Post Post #970 (isolation #64) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:23 am

Post by TierShift »

Prod doge
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Post Post #972 (isolation #65) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:30 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 971, Egg wrote:
In post 970, TierShift wrote:Prod doge
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Post Post #1116 (isolation #66) » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:35 am

Post by TierShift »

Catchups tomorrow saturday-ish
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Post Post #1162 (isolation #67) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:01 am

Post by TierShift »

okay imma do shit
In post 945, goodmorning wrote:
In post 936, davesaz wrote:FWIW, going through reviews of various players. I reviewed some posts of Muffin. I would call this town with some pretty good confidence.

...really?

That's incredibly weak. Muffin has been asking easy questions and flying low, and you want to call that Town?

goodposting

I find that Garmr has affirmed himself out of the uncomfortable list.

I understand/somewhat feel this
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Post Post #1165 (isolation #68) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:16 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 991, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 713, TierShift wrote:If this is a serious post, please elaborate.


If you're scum and not sure how to play in a large game you've never played in before, a self-vote will reveal absolutely nothing in the event of your flip, and so is a safe move to make as scum.

After having voted already? That sure seems like super solid scum play! Why don't we all self-vote as scum all the time?
In post 995, PeregrineV wrote:
I almost hesitate to use intentionally obtuse, but it's coming close to that. It also opens the avenue for you to attack anyone who doesn't continually TRY to clarify as "probable scum". And when they clarify, you still don't "get it", and blame them.

I feel this tbh

And I've taken a look at Thor being too certain about multiball. I cannot find that and do not support that either. What I did find was Thor being adamant on multiball being a safe assumption by using a faulty argument (SK=multiball). Why wouldn't he just say: "Eh, ok, maybe it's not such a safe assumption". Why did he feel attacked?
Spoiler: thor post
In post 583, Thor665 wrote:
In post 570, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 557, Thor665 wrote:Please provide me a link to all the 21+ player games you have been in recently that were not multiball.
I presume it's a majority?


Let's find out together. Me being in them doesn't seem to have much bearing, so let's just look.

NY169 : 20 players, 4 mafia (in this)
NY173: 18 players, 4 mafia + SK
NY172: 20 players, 4 mafia (in this)
NY171: 21 players, 5 mafia (in this)
NY170: 19 players, 3 mafia
NY167: 17 players, 4 mafia (in this)
NY166: 18 players, 4 mafia + SK (in this)
NY165: 24 players, 5 mafia + SK (ran this)

NY164: 24 players, 3 mafia + 4 mafia (in this)

NY161: 21 players, 5 mafia (in this)
NY143: 21 players, 3 mafia + 3 mafia (in this) (2011)

NY137: 21 players, 4 mafia + SK

NY134: 22 players, 5 mafia

It seems 3 years and 35 Large Normal games ago, there was a 21 player game with 2 scumteams.
So, yes, a large majority were not.

Adjusted that for how it was used in the discussion.
Adding in the other SK ones changes it to a 6/13 ratio.
Meaning, roughly, 50%

So...yeah, I think that is a safe assumption to have in your head Day 1.
Also, you called me scum for bringing up multiball...in relation to a discussion where someone brought up multiball...so, yes, I do think that's weird on your part.

And, really, "changing your reason upon consideration of new information is scummy"
Pull the other one, it has bells on.

I don't have a lot of sheep yet.
Why are people scared of this - he is declaring scum.
If you don't think he is then you should probably explain why you don't find the commentary scummy. Because I find it five alarm chilli level.


I don't agree with Pere getting all the shtick while basically making the same argument as axle. And he hasn't tried to shift attention onto axle either. While I don't agree with the argument pere was making, only that is not worth a vote and the current push is worse than the original misstep.
UNVOTE:
Currently looking towards thor/script/muffin/dave
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Post Post #1166 (isolation #69) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:17 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 996, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 851, TierShift wrote:
In post 848, Thor665 wrote:If he had openly stated he was skimming/sipping stuff - no worries.
But he didn't, he chose to present like he read.
He was probably lying about that.
Why do you think town Pere would do that?

Is scumperegrine known to do these things?
I'll reread when completing catchups.

In post 853, Thor665 wrote:Townperegrine is known *not* to do those things.

I'd answer this for myself if I knew the question.

Do I sometimes skim/skip as town? Yes.
Do I sometimes read it all as town? Yes.
Do I sometimes skim/skip as scum? Yes, but less often than as town.
Do I sometimes read it all as scum? Yes, so I don't bugger my buddies with bad play.

Wait, I'm missing something. Thor, can you quote where Pere was pretending to be caught up but wasn't and what showed that he wasn't?
Pere, where you not caught up at the point of making the readslist?
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Post Post #1167 (isolation #70) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:18 am

Post by TierShift »

ew I hate the where/were spelling mistake it's so Dutch
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Post Post #1172 (isolation #71) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:26 am

Post by TierShift »

Spoiler: for pere, my love
In post 1001, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 869, TierShift wrote:catch-up sorta finished.

Boon, claim your role if it confirms multiball.

As much as I hate voting with thor, peregrine's read on thor for the multiball comment is actually scummy as fuck.

VOTE: pere
Shit.

closer looks at anen, muffin and iza coming up tomorrow.


Quote my read on Thor to show you understand it.

Sure, sunshine.
In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:19. Thor665- early townread, but then downhill (slowly) from there, as he votes opposite my opinion. Kind of used to that, so not a full on scumread for that at this point.
The worst Thor post was calling this game multiball (261 and 265) for pretty much no reason (because it's 21 players?!?). Should there turn out to be 2 scumteams, I'll probably strongly advocate for a Thor lynch. Until then, I'll go back and forth with and about him trying to figure out if he is town that I just don't get or scum trying to trick me. Always fun.

I still don't like the fact that you found Thor's 'multiball is a safe assumption' as too strong for town.


In post 1015, hephaestus wrote:
In post 918, Thor665 wrote:
At least three people who read his situation with me have come back with scummy - and multiple others are at least voting him.
Why is your read null?


Meh, this multiball shitstorm means nothing to me tbh. Getting a few scummy vibes from his ISO but I'm not so sure you're town either.

I like this palyer. Do more shit tho.
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Post Post #1175 (isolation #72) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:43 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 1033, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1029, Muffin wrote:
In post 1022, Thor665 wrote:Muffin - Not fond of hard Thor defense. Call it mildly mild on the scum side.

Don't misconstrue things please.

Attacking a really weak case on someone does not equate to "hard defending" that player.

You can consider yourself an ally of convenience if you like.

Nah. I'll agree Goodmorning's play is weaksauce, but you're attacking her logic here. There is nothing inherently scummy in having gut reads - town do it all the time, and you have not shown that Goodmorning wouldn't or doesn't do that.
You're thumping on her really aggressively for what is play that is easily either suck town or kinda weak scum, and it's your big push.

Now, maybe you're trying to read her, and that's your deal, but it does come off as weirdly defensive towards me, which makes me feel the potential of buddying and I think that leaves you deserving of a call out.
Heck, take me out of the equation and 'oddly aggressive attack on gut read' becomes your play and that's worth a narrowed set of eyes all by itself.
I do not disagree that Goodmorning is being bad - she assuredly is, and she's even playing it up like she has a plan (and well she might, but I bet it's pretty weaksauce once we see it and won't justify the lackluster play). That said - the level of your attack on it is not in proper relation to the level of her crime. So it's weird, and I find you scummy for it.

Explain this. He was pushing gm for a real reason for the scumread on you, remarking he didn't find gut/tone strong enough 35 pages in. That's not discrediting, nor is it buddying you. Explain how it is buddying.
This reeks of bullshit.
In post 1059, T S O wrote:If you want a way to alleviate my boredom, how about a nice QUICKWAGON on Aneninen!

I don't think he's scum tbh. He looks like a newb being genuinely annoyed. His reads and remarks are weird as fuck but not really scummy. looks like a designated mislynch.
In post 1063, Nero Cain wrote:I'm asking you a very simple question Thor. I see no reason why you are acting out.

hey I agree
In post 1069, Egg wrote:
In post 739, davesaz wrote:Scum will have knowledge of all neighborhoods they have a member in. Town does not have general neighborhood knowledge, unless we reveal the neighborhoods before any of us are eliminated. The only knowledge that scum* gain from reveals is any neighborhoods they don't have members in. It doesn't seem to help scum.

Things which reduce the gap between what scum know and what town know is good for town.

(*) Scum and other factions <if any>


^this kind of looks like being too careful not to slip knowledge of how many factions there are.

agreed.
In post 1072, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1064, Thor665 wrote:And I told you I was buddying you - so you should react to that or not.

vote:Thor

:D
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Post Post #1176 (isolation #73) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:45 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 1081, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1073, T S O wrote:

Axle wrote:
Its RVS, making up bullshit is fun?

WHy is it scummy?


It's not scummy?
I just disagree with it. That was why I SAID that I didn't agree with anything Aneninen had said.


So why are you pissing my time down the drain, and not even trying to answer the actual question?

In post 1074, T S O wrote:Don't get me wrong, though, he's done plenty of scummy shit.


I aksed you too.
AXLE:
" I will expect you to show me the stuff that you saw back then that is so bad(disgreed with) (
not just that it is unarguably bad
)
but that you conclude for it to be that bad Aneninen must be or is quite likely to be scum, because as town he would not be that bad."


VOTE: TSO
While I am still willing to lynch Scripten today, and for counter wagon (size) purposes consider me on that wagon
However right at this moment I have new more important wagon that i would prefer over take the Scripten wagon...

Stop pissing in my pocket.

I asked you a question, "show me the stuff, to bad to be towny hence must be scummy?"
Then
You showed it to me and claimed it was too bad to be town.

Now you claim its not that at all, you just disagree with it.

Are you even playing mafia?

I tend to agree with your post, but I do not see what the vote is for.
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Post Post #1178 (isolation #74) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:52 am

Post by TierShift »

oh the explanation comes the following post
In post 1082, AxleGreaser wrote:TLDR:
basically i think TSO is lying, and scum because of that.
he has no scum read on Aneninen, especially not one based on actually reading the thread.
He was asked to show me posts that were so bad they cant come from a town Anenenen
he did
no he claims he didnt.

If nothing else LAL.

He did claim reasons for scumread earlier, so this is basically moot. He just didn't readily reprovide them.
In post 1105, Scripten wrote:
In post 1093, Egg wrote:Scripten, why do you think knowing neighborhoods will be more useful later than now?


I can't give you any real specifics. I've never played with neighborhoods before. However, more information for town is usually a good thing. I also can't see the reveal being particularly anti-town, either. Unless scum get their own neighborhood (which seems like it'd be a little game breaking), they'll probably tell their team all about the composition of their individual hoods, anyway. While this may not cover every hood in the game, it would still be more information than town will have.

Current Events

Thor v. Nero Cain looks weird. I'm not sure I'm following what Thor was doing where he told Nero that he was buddying him, and I'm not sure why Nero took what Thor said as reason to vote him. (Yes, I realize that buddying is a scum tactic. I don't think it follows that claiming to be buddying someone is also a scum tactic.)

Axle's posts are really hard to read. Like.... super hard to understand. I don't think this is a scumtell, but it's definitely an annoying trait for any alignment. TSO doesn't read as scum to me, though I don't think his push on Aneninen is strong enough to justify a counter-wagon.

Another empty post by scripten. This happens too often. I've played with town-him before, in which he very clearly stated opinions, took sides and was very proactive.
In post 1108, Egg wrote:
I once played a hard boiled setup and told the mod that the thread title was offensive.

So you went to a chamber to cry?

In post 838, TierShift wrote:
In post 831, Thor665 wrote:My Neighborhood is me, Pere, and Egg.

Shit. I found egg slipping knowledge of the neighbourhood in , which is why I posted . There defnitely hadn't been enough info to conclude you were in a neighbourhood, so I hoped egg wasn't in your neighbourhood and scumslipped.


That was a crumb, not a slip. Same with another post or two before that where I mentioned both Thor and Pere together.

Well, it would have been a slip if you hadn't been in a neighbourhood with them.
In post 1119, The Fonz wrote:At p20. Two things.

Csareo was scumhunting derpily. One of those last two words is alignment relevant.

please enlighten me.
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Post Post #1185 (isolation #75) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:49 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 1177, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1168, Nero Cain wrote:@tiershift-if boon claimed what would you learn?

Oh, missed this.

I just HATE softclaiming that serves no purpose.

There are three options:
1. Softclaiming (or fullclaiming) does not hurt town, or the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. In this case, you can do something useful with your (soft)claim, such as semi-confirm multiball. In that case, explain to others why your role confirms that. If you can't do that without fullclaiming, fullclaim.
2. Softclaiming (or fullclaiming) does hurt town, or the drawbacks outweigh the benefits. But your role does prove something. In this case, shut your fucking mouth.
3. Your role doesn't prove a fucking thing. You should shut up.

Boon made me think option #1 was the case. He made me think his role confirmed multiball to him and that sharing would confirm it to others.

As you see, none of the options include softclaiming, not convincing town, and then shutting up about it. So I pushed boonskiies to complete #1.

Then he backpedaled and said it was #3.

Not conforming to the 3 options (as in super softclaiming and not doing anything else) is scummy as fuck.
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Post Post #1187 (isolation #76) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:51 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 1184, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1166, TierShift wrote:Pere, where you not caught up at the point of making the readslist?


I was caught up when I made the readslist. The only thing added that was not on the readslist () was increased suspicion of Scripten while I was making the reads list because his vote caused such a backlash yet no one could explain why he was town().

Okay, then I'm interested in thor's explanation to his assertion that you were not caught up.
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Post Post #1191 (isolation #77) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:10 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 1144, T S O wrote:If anyone wants to talk about why Aneninen is scum, I'm open to that.

Yeah. Go ahead. Don't use 'I disagree with that' or 'I can't believe a twon player to be this bad'. I'll be happy to evaluate your other arguments.
In post 1156, T S O wrote:Aneninen, your vote is shit with no reasoning. You're still fucking scum and whether or not I get magically lynched on this derpwagon, you're going to get hung eventually. Don't worry about that.

In post 1157, T S O wrote:Axle, you literally make. no. goddamn. sense. and I'm not wasting my time trying to talk to you. I do not care what you think of me - stop talking to me. This will just prevent the big blow-up I'll eventually have where I rant about how shitty and irrational your play is.

Stop. You're no better than anyone here. Keep that in mind.
In post 1159, T S O wrote:Do I really have to make a wall detailing why he's wrong? Do I? Raging is so much easier than that and it makes me feel better to boot.

Also, I cannot even read his posts or my eyes burn - making a wallpost about him is like mutilating yourself while learning a language or something.

In post 1160, T S O wrote:Actually, you know what - it's the weekend, I don't have a huge amount on.

Give me two days.

Don't.

All this doesn't make anyone want to lynch anen more.
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Post Post #1193 (isolation #78) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:22 am

Post by TierShift »

I've seen scum softclaim, not getting confronted, and getting advantages out of it before.
Granted, I don't think boonskiies could pull that off.
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Post Post #1195 (isolation #79) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:28 am

Post by TierShift »

because I was working under assumption #1
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Post Post #1197 (isolation #80) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:36 am

Post by TierShift »

well, that too.

I just find softclaiming a scummy atrocity.

So in some ways, asking for a fullclaim after a softclaim is apolicy of mine, regardless of how highly I regard said player.
Now that I think of it, there possibly could be daytalk, completely eliminating player skill from this.
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Post Post #1199 (isolation #81) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:41 am

Post by TierShift »

I have not called it a policy, but I'm pretty sure I've pushed for a fullclaim with a lousy softclaim at least once and probably only once before. No idea where. At all. It was quite recent, though.
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Post Post #1201 (isolation #82) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:46 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 1199, TierShift wrote:At all. It was quite recent, though.

lol, I suck.

If you desperately want to see it, I can try looking for you, nero.
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Post Post #1204 (isolation #83) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:58 am

Post by TierShift »

And there are others who don't think so. You don't have to scream the loudest.
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Post Post #1211 (isolation #84) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:34 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 1207, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1172, TierShift wrote:
Spoiler: for pere, my love
In post 1001, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 869, TierShift wrote:catch-up sorta finished.

Boon, claim your role if it confirms multiball.

As much as I hate voting with thor, peregrine's read on thor for the multiball comment is actually scummy as fuck.

VOTE: pere
Shit.

closer looks at anen, muffin and iza coming up tomorrow.


Quote my read on Thor to show you understand it.

Sure, sunshine.
In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:19. Thor665- early townread, but then downhill (slowly) from there, as he votes opposite my opinion. Kind of used to that, so not a full on scumread for that at this point.
The worst Thor post was calling this game multiball (261 and 265) for pretty much no reason (because it's 21 players?!?). Should there turn out to be 2 scumteams, I'll probably strongly advocate for a Thor lynch. Until then, I'll go back and forth with and about him trying to figure out if he is town that I just don't get or scum trying to trick me. Always fun.

I still don't like the fact that you found Thor's 'multiball is a safe assumption' as too strong for town.


In post 1015, hephaestus wrote:
In post 918, Thor665 wrote:
At least three people who read his situation with me have come back with scummy - and multiple others are at least voting him.
Why is your read null?


Meh, this multiball shitstorm means nothing to me tbh. Getting a few scummy vibes from his ISO but I'm not so sure you're town either.

I like this palyer. Do more shit tho.


According to history, randomly, there is a 75% to not be two scumteams, so once again the fuss raised about my read is not proportionate to the read itself.

You're quite fond of that history-based read, aren't you? While the historical proof only came after the fuss, am I right?
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Post Post #1213 (isolation #85) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:48 am

Post by TierShift »

Oh hey, I forgot.

So it goes like this:
1. Anen calls you scum for reasons
2. You refute said reasons
3. Anen ignores you refuting said reasons
4. Anen is scum?

I didn't bother to check if 1-3 are correct, but there is still a major disconnect between 3 and 4.
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Post Post #1215 (isolation #86) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:10 am

Post by TierShift »

all right.
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Post Post #1221 (isolation #87) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:26 pm

Post by TierShift »

Ah, you're talking about this post, TSO. Let me break it down for you.
In post 418, Aneninen wrote:TSO. What I don't like is here:
304–306 – it's just a feeling but these seemed to be fake.
381 "I don't lurk as scum. Aneninen, Cho, Egg, Thor and Pere have all seen my scumgame when it's working decently. You can ask them."
383 "I really don't agree with anything Aneninen is saying right now." – soooo, if I posted I knew how you played as scum would you disagree with me? ^_^
400 – whattafukk was that bullshyt? A quote-wall which contains nothing from or about me and asking Thor about me? How does that make sense? (402 – what kind of explanation was that? "That quote string is me going through the thread convinced I was right - ignore it." – What did you examine?)

For starters, anen does NOT present a scumread here. He's pointing out individual stuff he doesn't like, not that makes him scumread you. Such as your over the top reaction to csareo getting replaced, or the fact that you mistakenly posted a quote wall.
The 381-383 thing is a stupid "contradiction".

It's more fluff than anything.
In post 1216, T S O wrote:Aneninen
calls me scum
for awful, shitty, obviously false reasons.

Does not
He didn't misunderstand shit - he was just plain lazy
wrong.

Well, the stuff he pointed out
was
annoying, technically.
I called him out, he didn't refute anything I said whatsoever, and
his posts got worse and worse from there.

This doesn't work. X 'sucks' or 'got worse' just doesn't work as a reason.
The post where he votes me in the last while is bull about puppets trying to hide the opportunism the vote contains.

I don't understand this
His original scumread on me was for "creating noise", whatever that's supposed to mean.

Well, you were clogging up the thread and picking a fight with csareo, so that's a valid point.

If he called you scum for those reasons, tehre is something wrong. But I don't think he did.
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Post Post #1223 (isolation #88) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:32 pm

Post by TierShift »

I meant reasons in 418, the creating noise part was valid, as I explained.
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Post Post #1225 (isolation #89) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:35 pm

Post by TierShift »

I called it null, but it WAS creating noise. And some people scumread for that. So I'm fine with that.
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Post Post #1230 (isolation #90) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:18 pm

Post by TierShift »

Yes, I do.

Do you have any further points to add to your case or is it gonna stay as bad as it is atm?
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Post Post #1234 (isolation #91) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:34 pm

Post by TierShift »

@TSO:
1. Csareo is null because csareo is always stupid
2. TSO knows csareo is like this, yet puts a lot of effort in the conversation, csareo is still null.
3. TSO keeps on talking to csareo, which generates only noise. TSO is scummy for that.

Completely logical thought process.

As I said, will you add to your shitty case or get out of your stupid tunnel?
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Post Post #1261 (isolation #92) » Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:48 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 1236, davesaz wrote:
  • In 223, I don't think Anen has a read at all, and is asking why other people are scum reading you.
  • In 241, Observing that your vote was not counted and you did nothing to fix it. Questioning that seems reasonable. I thought the same thing at the time (that it was odd you didn't fix the vote). If you really wanted your vote there, I would expect town to revote. Not revoting is something I might expect scum to use as an excuse later. You can point to the (bad) vote and say "see, I did think he was scummy" and perhaps get away with it.
  • In 250, Anen questions why you kept at Csareo so long, and attributes anti-town to the behavior. Then there is a followup thought that you might both be scum. It was around this point that I attributed the whole thing to anger, and others agreed with me.


I don't see anything wrong with the sequence from Anen. It's very easy to see town motivation in Anen's side of that sequence of events. You did something a little questionable, and drew suspicion as a result. What I'm not sure of is why you're continuing to make a big deal about it. I think Anen didn't even vote you until the last 24 hours, after you continued to poke at the subject. What's really mystifying is how you can think the original 3 posts you quoted were scummy, or more accurately how you can think that progression of reads is scummy.

thanks
In post 1239, T S O wrote:That's the thing, though - why didn't he vote me? I mean, he's been calling me scum all game - why did he feel the need to wait until Axle would back him up to go after me?

idk but that's not a scumtell, it's as easy for scum to just vote where their mouth lies as it is for town.
In post 1241, T S O wrote:Is being convinced you're wrong always a bit jarring, or is that just me?

yeah, it is. But you're convinced, which is a good thing.
In post 1246, Scripten wrote:
In post 1244, Garmr wrote:
In post 1179, Nero Cain wrote: "If it is multiball all you had to do was wait one day and you could of keeped it hidden from scum." is p silly. Scum already know if its mb or not.

Potential scumslip

I think nero just slipped he confirmed that scum know it's multiball


Ehhh... I called it out, but I'm not scumreading him too hard for it. Jumping on tiny things like that pushes mislynches. I disagree that it's worth calling it a scumslip.

P-Edit - TBH, even if it didn't have the "or not."

Another pointing-fingers post by scripten.
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Post Post #1322 (isolation #93) » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:14 am

Post by TierShift »

announcing that I have trouble staying caught up in the weekdays and am thus likely not to post during them.
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Post Post #1372 (isolation #94) » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:03 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 1371, T S O wrote:think I'm just going to do a re-read or something - moivation to play this game has kinda been shot to shit, but I'll see what I can do.

+1

I find mostly fonz v gm/thor v pere particularly boring. Imma look for new suspects!
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Post Post #1373 (isolation #95) » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:11 pm

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In post 758, Scripten wrote:
In post 751, Nero Cain wrote:Scripten, what do you think of me thinking you are the scum from my hood?


Kinda hard to form any real opinion on it. I don't know where your reads are, am either null- or town-reading other players in the hood, and I am speaking from a different PoV than you are. (You already know your own role. I already know mine.) There's too many variables for me to make a judgement call on that statement other than saying it's wrong.

In post 1105, Scripten wrote:
In post 1093, Egg wrote:Scripten, why do you think knowing neighborhoods will be more useful later than now?


I can't give you any real specifics. I've never played with neighborhoods before. However, more information for town is usually a good thing. I also can't see the reveal being particularly anti-town, either. Unless scum get their own neighborhood (which seems like it'd be a little game breaking), they'll probably tell their team all about the composition of their individual hoods, anyway. While this may not cover every hood in the game, it would still be more information than town will have.

Current Events

Thor v. Nero Cain looks weird. I'm not sure I'm following what Thor was doing where he told Nero that he was buddying him, and I'm not sure why Nero took what Thor said as reason to vote him. (Yes, I realize that buddying is a scum tactic. I don't think it follows that claiming to be buddying someone is also a scum tactic.)

Axle's posts are really hard to read. Like.... super hard to understand. I don't think this is a scumtell, but it's definitely an annoying trait for any alignment. TSO doesn't read as scum to me, though I don't think his push on Aneninen is strong enough to justify a counter-wagon.

Okay, scripten's ISO is weak as fuck. There's a distinct lack of opinions other than 'Pere is sooo scummy' for reasons unexplained. So scripten, I want those reasons now.

I've played with townscripten; he clearly explained his reads and had an opinion on everything. Not seeing that here.

VOTE: scripten
Thor, why do you townread scripten?
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Post Post #1374 (isolation #96) » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:12 pm

Post by TierShift »

Those quotes didn't mean to be in my post.
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Post Post #1384 (isolation #97) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:45 am

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In post 1380, Thor665 wrote:It is difficult to put into words, but I liked his aggressiveness paired with being open about the idea he didn't have strong reads.

Do you mean defensiveness? He got all egged on when iza called him out on having not so strong reads.

Not having strong reads isn't town or anything.

You got something better?
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Post Post #1395 (isolation #98) » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:08 am

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In post 1393, Scripten wrote:but it was really his reaction to Thor's push on him that made me vote him. The multiball discussion, at least from Thor's side, was not actually about multiball. It was calling out PereV on -really- scummy play. The more Thor pushed, the more PereV tried to keep the discussion on MB and setup speculation, just to push his idea that Thor should be auto-lynched if the game turned out to be multiball. I'm just amazed that so few people really caught on to it.

Okay, so you really voted pere for his reaction to thor's push. What exactly was scummy in his response other than 'lynch thor if MB'?
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Post Post #1454 (isolation #99) » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:36 am

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In post 1452, T S O wrote:I think Scripten is town.

Me too :(

UNVOTE:

Still not sure where I stand on pere vs thor.

I only have a few places where I don't want to be voting but am not sure where I DO want to be voting.
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Post Post #1489 (isolation #100) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:41 am

Post by TierShift »

v/la from tomorrow until saturday, on a trip to oxford ^^
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Post Post #1800 (isolation #101) » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:17 am

Post by TierShift »

Hi lads I'll catch up tomorrow probz
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Post Post #1888 (isolation #102) » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:41 am

Post by TierShift »

I'm sort of reading and liking slandaar.
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Post Post #1891 (isolation #103) » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:08 am

Post by TierShift »

I feel very discouraged from reading because all the discussion before I left was nonsense and it probably is now. We nded a flip. Pere wouldn't be my first choice, but I can live with it
In post 1889, T S O wrote:Oh hey, look, Tier said he wasn't 100% reading! Hey Axle, here's my scumbuddy!

:roll:

:o
In post 1890, Scripten wrote:
In post 1888, TierShift wrote:I'm sort of reading and liking slandaar.


I like that he's started conversations outside the ones that were already there and that his posts seem to be discouraging tunneling. What's your take?

Yeah, that. I skimmed through his ISO and was like 'hey, this kid says things that are true and are new'.
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Post Post #1893 (isolation #104) » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:05 am

Post by TierShift »

From what I remember of this game I'd go with muffin or davesaz.
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Post Post #1894 (isolation #105) » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:07 am

Post by TierShift »

If it hasn't been done, I want to point out this link to TSO:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=58767
This was the reason why I somewhat townread anen earlier, I was scum there and I already knew he was town. His play here feels the same as it did there. Please read starting from where he replaced in, TSO.
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Post Post #1895 (isolation #106) » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:09 am

Post by TierShift »

Reading izar's 1875 makes me want to be on the thor wagon.

VOTE: thor
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Post Post #1987 (isolation #107) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:30 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 1960, Garmr wrote:
In post 1955, T S O wrote:Fucking fine.

Vote: PeregrineV


If that'll get you off my fucking back, great.


How to shatter a town read by tso.

Garmr is town, probs.
In post 1969, Aneninen wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
Slandaar – What kind of catch-up was that?

I read nearly 2000 posts in 2 days what did you expect me to do? write a bunch of walls aswell? do you want players who are caught up and know whats going on or ones who write a wall take 5 hours to read 10 pages and never catch up?

"It wanted to be looked like a catchup but it failed the" kind of.

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
I told you who needs to be lynched today; GM.

That's a brilliant idea. In another game, perhaps.

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
Quoting a #180-ish post then jumping to #1700 so as to comment on the TSO-Nero interaction?

Yes? I read the recent couple pages while reading the rest? What is the issue with that?

You could have asked questions. You did not.

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
As if there had been nothing more interesting. Pretty of nulls next. is an evasion plus a speculation (which feels to include "inside information" – that's just an intuition, though).

That isn't my post.

I meant . (Are you here, TSO? Here's something for you! It's impossible to type 60 instead of 54 by mistake so that
must have been a
scumslip. If you divide 1860 by 1854 you get 1,00367187909 if you miscalculate it and those numbes show the players who are planned to be Nightkilled, in alphabetical order.)

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
The , vote for GoodMorning is terrible, as for its reasoning. Everyone: check that out, also the #s of the posts!!!

Whats terrible about it?


I've highlighted them, see below. (As far as I know he didn't have a game with Csareo before. TSO had. Why don't you scumread him too?)
Also, the quotes you'd made proved nothing.

In post 1917, Slandaar wrote:I think Thor and PV are both town.
Lets lynch someone else.

Vote: GoodMorning

GM is good as scum so she hasn't made any huge mistakes or slips and this makes it hard to make an argument against her but her tone doesn't feel right and she never seems to have much point to what she says.
:]
But seriously;
The way she acted during Csareo's time was incredibly scummy.
She asked him multitudes of questions and argued lots of what he said because
it was easy
.
It looks good when you argue with someone like Csareo because you will always win and thus come out looking good but at the same time she wasn't pushing the wagon or really doing anything with the questions she asked or points she disputed.
You can see this later where she never again questions anyone to such an extent, take Thor she never questions him.



In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
(By the way, did he want to derail the PeregrineV wagon in ? We should remember that later!)

Yep I want to derail PV wagon.

Derail? Isn't that word used for a scum-action? To derail a wagon of a scumbuddy?

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
It's good to know you are scum though.


Spoiler:
Image
POOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!


You are nervous. Very nervous. Scummy-nervous.

VOTE: Slandaar

This is definitely below the level I'd expect town-aneninen to sink. I might want to lynch this.
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Post Post #1989 (isolation #108) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:43 pm

Post by TierShift »

VOTE: aneninen

I can get on with removing this piece of noisy nonsense spammer.
Who might flip scum.

And since he started quoting instead of italicising, I can actually read his posts! They make me want to lynch!
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Post Post #2022 (isolation #109) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:22 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 1991, Thor665 wrote:
I find GM scummy and I am highly unimpressed by this as a case and think it borders on misrep.
I am sad Tiershift followed it.

I am not following this case, I pointed out what I found scummy about him in my previous post. It's just that the vote by muffin prompted me to do the same.

If you think gm is scummy, then you must think is some sort of fishy?
Pere, what do you think about 1969?
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Post Post #2025 (isolation #110) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:28 pm

Post by TierShift »

Well to be fair to us we probably only started reading his posts when he stopped using italics
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Post Post #2030 (isolation #111) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:59 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 2027, T S O wrote:Tier, what are your feelings on Axle?

I got some townvibes early but I haven't read much of his posts lately.

I did see what he has on you and what you have on him and both your cases suck, frankly.
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Post Post #2040 (isolation #112) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:09 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2039, Thor665 wrote:That is one possible interpretation, sure.

Just fuck off, will you? It's my post, I don't need to fucking interpret my own post.
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Post Post #2042 (isolation #113) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:20 am

Post by TierShift »

I wrote my post. My expressed viewpoints and/or actions are not interpreted by me; don't call the way I describe my actions an interpretation.
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Post Post #2044 (isolation #114) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:34 am

Post by TierShift »

You called MY explanation of MY post an interpretation.

Gm, why am I of such little interest to you? What is your read on me?
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Post Post #2046 (isolation #115) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:42 am

Post by TierShift »

It's me showing discontent with your passive-aggressive 'I'm better than you'-tone.
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Post Post #2079 (isolation #116) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:03 am

Post by TierShift »

Egg stop walling pls
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Post Post #2084 (isolation #117) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:24 am

Post by TierShift »

Why are you so certain in your townread on me gm?
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Post Post #2089 (isolation #118) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:34 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2085, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2084, TierShift wrote:Why are you so certain in your townread on me gm?

We've just come out of that game in which you were Scum. It's rooted in that.

Well, I don't remember you reading me easily there.
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Post Post #2129 (isolation #119) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:05 am

Post by TierShift »

why the latter tso?
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Post Post #2131 (isolation #120) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:10 am

Post by TierShift »

well uh I don't really see that. Why?
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Post Post #2136 (isolation #121) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:36 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2132, T S O wrote:Why would scum-GM randomly decide to push Thor?

well, why the heck would she not? Why would her scumreading thor make her have a 'death wish'?
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Post Post #2138 (isolation #122) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:45 am

Post by TierShift »

I'M NOT ASKING YOU
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Post Post #2149 (isolation #123) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:33 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2144, goodmorning wrote:The only agenda I have, as either alignment, is to figure things out.

Why would you have an agenda to figure things out as scum?
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Post Post #2177 (isolation #124) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:50 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 2155, T S O wrote:
In post 2136, TierShift wrote:
In post 2132, T S O wrote:Why would scum-GM randomly decide to push Thor?

well, why the heck would she not? Why would her scumreading thor make her have a 'death wish'?


Because there was no support for Thor being scum at the time and, more importantly, Thor is probably one of the worst players to pick a fight with as scum onsite due to his proficiency in winning arguments, propensity to re-evaluate reads and even tunnel if need be. GM's not stupid.

Well, if all she keeps saying is 'tone', Thor can't really argue with her, can he?
In post 2171, Scripten wrote:
In post 2170, beastcharizard wrote:So, who is town and who is scum?


I'm town. Thor's probably town. TSO and Davesaz are probably town. AxleGreaser... might be town? It's a tough one.

You forgot me!
Why davesaz?
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Post Post #2183 (isolation #125) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:56 pm

Post by TierShift »

I get what you mean slender
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Post Post #2193 (isolation #126) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:47 am

Post by TierShift »

Hey egg, I see I'm a scumread of yours! Why?
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Post Post #2217 (isolation #127) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:00 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2199, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2022, TierShift wrote:Pere, what do you think about ?


It seems like a continuation of the Slandaar read in . The reasons seem to be the opposite of why I'm a scumread (), but maybe he just hates people catching up or calling them catch-up posts.

Either way, seems upset about the Goodmorning vote and the reason behind it.

Never mentions Aeronaut previously except once, so doubt they are scum together.

I was talking in terms of townish-scummy, you don't need to describe what the post says.
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Post Post #2229 (isolation #128) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:27 am

Post by TierShift »

Praise da lawd
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Post Post #2234 (isolation #129) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:47 am

Post by TierShift »

Dayvig anen
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Post Post #2246 (isolation #130) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:11 am

Post by TierShift »

I just read egg's walls.
In post 2063, Egg wrote:
Tier wrote:
I feel very discouraged from reading because all the discussion before I left was nonsense and it probably is now. We nded a flip. Pere wouldn't be my first choice, but I can live with it


This is the kind of thing I'd expect Pere's scumbuddies to be saying right about now.

Is this the basis for your scumread on me?
I don't understand why exactly pere's buddies would say this and why town wouldn't.

Also associatives before the flip suck monkey nuts!

Part of me wants to effort right now, part of me thinks day 1 is long enough as it is...
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Post Post #2276 (isolation #131) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:57 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 2264, Flubbernugget wrote:
Egg is hard town for keeping up with the game, and for overall strong scumhunting.

Where do I find examples of said strong scumhunting?

@Tiershift what made you want to join this game?

Aegor asking me. And later I saw gm saying she was in the game which reminded me that I wanted to play as well so I signed up.
I've not been great, I know, sorry. Maybe I'll effort tonight.
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Post Post #2294 (isolation #132) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:08 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2246, TierShift wrote:I just read egg's walls.
In post 2063, Egg wrote:
Tier wrote:
I feel very discouraged from reading because all the discussion before I left was nonsense and it probably is now. We nded a flip. Pere wouldn't be my first choice, but I can live with it


This is the kind of thing I'd expect Pere's scumbuddies to be saying right about now.

Is this the basis for your scumread on me?
I don't understand why exactly pere's buddies would say this and why town wouldn't.

Also associatives before the flip suck monkey nuts!

egg, response?
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Post Post #2297 (isolation #133) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:14 am

Post by TierShift »

Right, you didn't like me asking boonskiies to claim, which I covered already. Other than that, you talked about my read on scripten which used inadmissible meta. There is nothing else.
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Post Post #2309 (isolation #134) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:23 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2300, Egg wrote:Tier, yeah, that stuff and your early interactions with TSO and Toby. (See my post 486). And did you ever answer 1630?

I'm not sure. I have a decently strong townread on TSO.
Scripten's 1105 was devoid of opinions; only fencesitting. That's why I called it empty.

You called my early interactions faked or something but eh...don't see that.

I'll effort tomorrow because I have nothing to do tomorrow. In-depth reads on egg and dave coming prolly.
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Post Post #2311 (isolation #135) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:26 am

Post by TierShift »

No, why do you assume it's because of that?
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Post Post #2316 (isolation #136) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:57 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2315, davesaz wrote:I'm also starting to think that PV's case is a SK slip.

Is this real life?
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Post Post #2320 (isolation #137) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:07 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2317, Egg wrote:
In post 2311, TierShift wrote:No, why do you assume it's because of that?


Timing.

That's just a coincidence, I suppose. The real reason is because I'm expecting more from your slot than what I am currently seeing (or what I think I'm seeing, that's what the reread is for). Some people have called you town for strong analysis but I can't find that anywhere. We'll see tomorrow!
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Post Post #2322 (isolation #138) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:15 am

Post by TierShift »

do you agree your own two big walls are shit/insert other word here with the same meaning but sounding less harsh?
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Post Post #2331 (isolation #139) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:11 am

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I don't think anen is scum, actually. But removing him wouldn't really hurt...
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Post Post #2338 (isolation #140) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:36 am

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I like fonz's observation.
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Post Post #2340 (isolation #141) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:00 pm

Post by TierShift »

Davesaz ISO is done. I don't see a whole lot of analysis or engaging but I like what I'm seeing.
Spoiler: posts that ring town
In post 852, davesaz wrote:I don't think that not posting in the neighborhood pregame can be used for alignment. People could have misinterpreted the thread being open as a mod mistake and just not gotten around to posting there.

Thor is posting longer analysis than he did in a newbie game we both replaced into and were town. But I don't find that aspect of his posting to be alignment indicative since there are so many more players here. The style is similar to that game. Yes, this is me using meta, about the first time I've been able to apply it on this site. On top of that, I see town motivation behind the things that Thor is doing. Thor goes in my town pile, but I also think he's skilled enough to do this as scum so it's not a permanent thing.

The reason I voted PeregrineV is that his post of reads was very comprehensive but mostly really thin. I believe I commented that I didn't see how there could be so many reads with so little information. When I combined that with the aspect that Thor pointed out (Pere seems to be fishing for a 2nd scum team) it pushed Pere firmly into scum territory for me.

I have that same game quoted above in common with Scripten. He was scum in that game. The dry sense of humor seems very similar. One of the things on my todo list is to look at his non humor posting and see if it is also similar to the sample game. Null pending going back through the sections of thread where he appears.

I really hesitate to post on this, because setup discussions bother me. But there is some evidence that misinformation about the setup could be used as a tool and I dislike that even more than the mere discussion. I'm going to take that bull by the horns and give an example. I also noticed the different size neighborhoods. I think it would be a huge mistake to assume that existence of a smaller neighborhood (3) means that none of those people could be (or are likely to be) scum. In fact a Pere scum read pretty much demands the logic that hood size is not alignment indicative, since he's one of the members of the 3. I will note that if Thor were scum, then an assumption that a 3-hood is 2 scum from different factions and a townie would result in the Thor v. Pere situation. Not that it changes my read right now, but another reason to not consider my Thor read as permanent. And to reiterate, making that assumption, or any other assumption about neighborhood makeup, is inherently dangerous. Like WIFOM with both glasses poisoned dangerous. We should try to ignore the hoods and just hunt scum as though we don't know about them.

In post 1217, davesaz wrote:I've seen a few people quoting this post.

In post 739, davesaz wrote:Scum will have knowledge of all neighborhoods they have a member in. Town does not have general neighborhood knowledge, unless we reveal the neighborhoods before any of us are eliminated. The only knowledge that scum* gain from reveals is any neighborhoods they don't have members in. It doesn't seem to help scum.

Things which reduce the gap between what scum know and what town know is good for town.

(*) Scum and other factions <if any>


You have to ask why the footnote? Really?

I don't enjoy being tunneled. Too many people in this game appear ready to tunnel folks because their posts do, or do not, seem to have setup knowledge. You know, the posts which say something about multiball. If I don't like something, I do things that I hope will avoid it.

For the record, since there is so much (IMO distracting and really unnecessary) discussion about the topic:
  • I define multiball,for the purpose of this discussion, as more than one non-town faction. I
    don't care
    if you agree. I don't care what the wiki says.
  • The odds favor more than one faction.
  • Some people could read the townie role PM, quoted in as implying that there are multiple factions.
  • The quoted post by me says that scum (and other factions) gain knowledge of the neighborhoods they don't belong to. Town gains knowledge of all neighborhoods. Therefore I think that town gains more from revealing than non-town.


When I post something which requires precise language, I use it. When caveats are needed, I post them.

End of PSA.

In post 1233, davesaz wrote:
In post 1227, The Fonz wrote:Davesaz is really glaringly posting lots of IIoA. Newbie though. Consider this a warning to be more proactive.

It would be a bit easier if anyone was commenting on what I say. Some of the information is intended to generate a response which can then be analyzed.
I see a whole lot of stuff going by which either doesn't change my reads or doesn't apply at all. What am I supposed to do, comment on it anyway?

In post 2134, davesaz wrote:I'm quite surprised that nobody scumread me after I "caught" Egg having "scum knowledge".

This brings up two inconsistencies. Some players are seen as scummy if they point out other players who seem to have inside information, but other players who make the same observation are not scummy. And there seems to be a double standard on the posting of apparent inside information as well.

UNVOTE:

Dave, why do you townread thor? Who next to pere do you scumread? why?
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Post Post #2346 (isolation #142) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:24 pm

Post by TierShift »

halfway through my egg read
Spoiler: stuff I like from egg
In post 264, Egg wrote:I kind of feel like goodmorning is trying to paint csar as scummy rather than show a genuine scum read though.

oh wait that was shorter than I thought for real[/spoiler]
In post 486, Egg wrote:And when I ISO'd you for TSO mentions, I found a lot of mentions of him, but couldn't tell what your actual read on him was until I saw your vote on him. Everything from you about TSO seems off to me.

I read my own ISO and I can't really find that many mentions of TSO. I asked him something maybe once? What do you mean here?
In post 834, Egg wrote:/confirm neighbors with Pere and Thor. Thor looked town in the neighborhood.

Is he still looking town there? Why/how?
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Post Post #2356 (isolation #143) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:50 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 1630, Egg wrote:
The TSO vs Axle arguement is a little boring, but I feel like I should throw in my two cents. Axle asked TSO for Aneninen's posts that absolutely can NOT come from town. TSO gives a quote wall and attacks Axle for focusing on the RVS vote in the quote wall. I actually think Axle is making a good point that TSO is making more of a case than what is actually there, especially when he admits that the RVS post was more "I disagree with" than "town couldn't possibly" because at that point, TSO isn't really doing what was asked of him to make his case. As for my conclusion on the arguement, Axle looks obvtown. TSO, not so much.

goodpost
In post 2063, Egg wrote:
Tier wrote:I feel very discouraged from reading because all the discussion before I left was nonsense and it probably is now. We nded a flip. Pere wouldn't be my first choice, but I can live with it


This is the kind of thing I'd expect Pere's scumbuddies to be saying right about now.

I'm still wondering why you'd expect pere's buddies to say this right now.
In post 2091, Egg wrote:
TSO, I have a weak scum read on you.

why tho?
In post 2190, Egg wrote:
Town: Me, Thor, Axle
Scum: Pere, Tier, Goodmorning

I like the pere and gm scumreads and the axle scumread. I still want to know about the thor townread and I still have no fucking clue as to why your little nitpicks on me make me scum.

All in all, reading egg's ISO fills me with joy seeing that everything flows logically from one post to another. There are some (at least 1 idk) suddenly shifting reads but I can get that.
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Post Post #2359 (isolation #144) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:53 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 2352, davesaz wrote:I'm pretty sure one of Axle or TSO is scum, but I can't tell which.

TSO could be read as someone who is making himself obnoxious enough to be ruled out as possible scum. As a townie that play could be intended to make sure that scum don't target him as NK because he's good lynch fodder in future days, while town don't lynch him because his play is annoying but not very scummy. As scum, he could be aiming for the same niche (annoying but not especially summy) while hoping that his tunnel takes hold -- then he's absolved by being able to say "don't look at me, I'm just tunnely". The errors in interpreting his targets' posts could be strategic, or just misguided.

Axle could very easily be scum going after the obviously annoying target. Town might thank him for lynching TSO if the noise ratio goes down, even with a town flip. This doesn't feel like a TvT. TSO is defending but not tunneling back, so either scum Axle is after town TSO, or town Axle is after scum TSO.

I think this is untrue, see the egg post I just quoted. Axle is town, at least.

God reading and parsing ISO's takes so much fucking time but it increases the grasp on the game so much
blegh larges take too much effort
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Post Post #2364 (isolation #145) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:07 pm

Post by TierShift »

CAN THE AXLE TSO SHITSTORM STOP

VOTE: pere
pere you are not in my huge pool of townreads and I feel super comfortable sheeping egg and anen is not scum :3

This is also a reminder to myself that I should stop putting stock in TSO's reads.
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Post Post #2369 (isolation #146) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:12 pm

Post by TierShift »

your case is already shit and you didn't even make half a start.

That was @2365

@2366: it comes from me just following along in my mind with some of your reads because you are the player posting the most. But now I realise ALL of your reads this game have been utter shit.
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Post Post #2372 (isolation #147) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:14 pm

Post by TierShift »

I see Pere has been online. Pere, if you think you won't get back before deadline, please claim now, as it looks you are going to be run up to L-1 soon. No claim because V/LA won't be accepted.
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Post Post #2373 (isolation #148) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:15 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 2371, T S O wrote:
In post 2369, TierShift wrote:your case is already shit and you didn't even make half a start.

That was @2365

@2366: it comes from me just following along in my mind with some of your reads because you are the player posting the most. But now I realise ALL of your reads this game have been utter shit.


well, thanks, I guess

it really gets brought home when you say it. much love, tiershift, much love.

No offence intended.

Just a wake-up call maybe? :D
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Post Post #2378 (isolation #149) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:19 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 2374, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2364, TierShift wrote:CAN THE AXLE TSO SHITSTORM STOP

VOTE: pere
pere you are not in my huge pool of townreads and I feel super comfortable sheeping egg and anen is not scum :3

This is also a reminder to myself that I should stop putting stock in TSO's reads.

this post is oddly disquieting

YOUR ISO WILL COME TOMORROW

why?

List of ISO's for the near future: gm muffin pere garmr nero cain
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Post Post #2381 (isolation #150) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:07 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 2379, goodmorning wrote:If I knew then it wouldn't be odd.

Why is everything so vague with you this game?
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Post Post #2397 (isolation #151) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:23 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 2383, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2368, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2364, TierShift wrote:CAN THE AXLE TSO SHITSTORM STOP

k


if you dont like shouting for effect.

I don't like your argument, but shouting for effect is...decent when not used too often I spose.

this is odd.
In post 2378, TierShift wrote:YOUR ISO WILL COME TOMORROW

Gm likes capslock!
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Post Post #2414 (isolation #152) » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:16 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2411, Egg wrote:Tier, you quoted post 486. Considering how early it was in the game, just a few mentions is kind of a lot. My point was that you seemed to be dancing around giving a real read on him. And yes, Thor still looks town to me. I fully admit a lot of this could be confirmation bias. Or maybe the fact that I don't see a case against him, so the wagon seems ridiculous.

Right, you don't see the case on him. But how does that make him town instead of null? What do you townread about him?

Tier, Pere's buddies wouldn't want to lynch him, but would want to be prepared to bus before deadline. It's a wishy washy "I don't really want to but if you twist my arm..." statement.

Right, I can get into that, but I do think it's a particularly weak tell that works worse without meta knowledge. As in, I don't think this tell would be very applicable to my own scumgame.

Tier, your town read on me confuses me. Mostly the strength of it. You seemed to be going into the ISO looking for strong analysis and basically good play. I really haven't done that so far. Hell, I've been 10-30 pages behind for most of the day. So, with the expectations you seemed to have, your read on me doesn't really make sense. Like you seemed to want to call me scum, but after ISOing, you sheep me (not Thor?). Why?

I don't need a whole lot to form a townread, I don't need fancy analysis, arguments or cases to determine alignment.
What I saw in your ISO was commenting on relevant stuff others seemed to let slip by (for instance stuff on GM-csareo) and a desire to not pick fights, instead avoiding them, in a good sense. I also connected to your thought process and that's the most important reason for the townread.

I did want to call you scum before I ISO'd you, correct. I thought it was full of total non-comittal and nonsense but hey it wasn't. And I don't sheep thor because I don't like him nor do I think he is particularly town.
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Post Post #2417 (isolation #153) » Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:38 am

Post by TierShift »

I played in hard boiled with titus under earthquake.

The point about avoiding fights is more about steering clear of the enormous amount of 1v1s going on instead of fueling them. You know what I mean.
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Post Post #2424 (isolation #154) » Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:55 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2420, Shiro wrote:I guess best wagon is Anen. His posts seem off and coming right out of a game that he was town(even if I was maf) his post don't have the same town vibe they had there. I don't really know how to explain this tbh. Has GM noted anything similar to that ? If I recall Tier has and he was in the same game I speak of.

I did feel the same way but have since changed my mind. Don't put too much stock in 1 game meta which isn't even the same game size.
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Post Post #2491 (isolation #155) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:08 am

Post by TierShift »

1 day 6 hours to deadline can the pere vote piling begin pls
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Post Post #2495 (isolation #156) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:14 am

Post by TierShift »

I like the gm wagon but I just don't think it will take off
also I am not motivated to read gm better and the pere lynch will happen sooner or later.
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Post Post #2499 (isolation #157) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:35 am

Post by TierShift »

nope shiro that is just in newbies where she is IC.
I don't think she's been particularly evasive or vague here. The opposite, actually.

You can just be lucky I had a townread on your predecessor, shiro...
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Post Post #2510 (isolation #158) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:07 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 2501, AxleGreaser wrote:So you are clear on why GM is voting Thor?
Well yeah, I suppose tone/feelings/...

and you expect we will have clear answer to Slaandars question?

I've called her vague mself too, I suck lol. Early game she wasn't vague at all but she has become more vague, I agree.

What question.
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Post Post #2511 (isolation #159) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:08 pm

Post by TierShift »

NOOBS GO VOTE PERE NOW WE'RE A FUCKING DAY FROM DL THX
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Post Post #2514 (isolation #160) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:53 pm

Post by TierShift »

Gj
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Post Post #2518 (isolation #161) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:50 pm

Post by TierShift »

What's the VC at?
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Post Post #2541 (isolation #162) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:17 am

Post by TierShift »

Woo, flips.
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Post Post #2561 (isolation #163) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:18 pm

Post by TierShift »

Going over wagon and such tomorrow.
In post 2557, T S O wrote:Mildly scum reading Scripten for last night.

?
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Post Post #2562 (isolation #164) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:19 pm

Post by TierShift »

Ohi boon your vote is interesting why do you make it?
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Post Post #2564 (isolation #165) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:29 pm

Post by TierShift »

With 'in the thread', you mean in your neighbourhood?
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Post Post #2655 (isolation #166) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:19 pm

Post by TierShift »

I'm yet to form an opinion on boon's push on iz and his reaction to it. It all reads a bit vague to me. Is there any reason the plan boon was talking about cannot be fully disclosed?
In post 2632, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2607, Boonskiies wrote:I'm not answering it because you'll just come up with an ignorant response, so I decide that I'm better off just ignoring you so I don't get frustrated.


Oh noes I have duel of wits with Boonskies
VOTE: boonskies

Oh god, you are the fucking worst. You vote everyone who disagrees with you and afterwards you are the most bullheaded person ever. If this is a characteristic of your town game, stop sucking.

I've always seen being bullheaded as a town characteristic until recently a scum player used that to completely catch me off-guard. (GM knows!) It's an easy way to not contribute and I'll meta now.
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Post Post #2658 (isolation #167) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:50 pm

Post by TierShift »

All right, I'd like shiro's take on what happened tonight and on the fact anen died tonight.

My meta skim on axle has made it clear to me that he does this as town. Dpesn't mean he wouldn't do this as scum, though.
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Post Post #2683 (isolation #168) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:17 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2661, Scripten wrote:And my two biggest scumreads are voting each other. This quote bugs the hell out of me, though, so I think I know which one I think is not aligned with town.

Why does the other need to be town?
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Post Post #2684 (isolation #169) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:19 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2681, T S O wrote:It still hasn't really sunk in for me that Aneninen flipped town.

I have no idea where to go from here.

I know. Please subject to my reads from now on!
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Post Post #2687 (isolation #170) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:21 am

Post by TierShift »

'But as scum you don't catch scum, eh?' To finish that sentence?
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Post Post #2698 (isolation #171) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:55 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2689, T S O wrote:
In post 2687, TierShift wrote:'But as scum you don't catch scum, eh?' To finish that sentence?


Actually as scum I'd probably be more competent at catching scum than as town.

The actual completion of that sentence goes "...but I haven't caught any yet", - but we can roll with yours either.

In post 2690, T S O wrote:
In post 2687, TierShift wrote:'But as scum you don't catch scum, eh?' To finish that sentence?


Actually as scum I'd probably somehow be more competent at catching scum than as town.

And yes, TierShift, bravo - you got me good there.

Why did you post this second post?
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Post Post #2708 (isolation #172) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:21 am

Post by TierShift »

That vote is slightly disturbing; please explain it further.
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Post Post #2868 (isolation #173) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:45 am

Post by TierShift »

Dodging the prod probz read tomorrow
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Post Post #2878 (isolation #174) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:10 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 2876, Izariael wrote:VOTE: Boonskiies

His last four posts and Flubber's fakeclaim meta () are the tipping points for me. :igmeou:

I haven't caught up yet, but this shit needs lynching.
Flubber"s 2870 should NOT be a reason for you to vote boon. Boon's last 4 posts are not scummy to me. Please explain how they are.

VOTE: iza
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Post Post #2881 (isolation #175) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:51 pm

Post by TierShift »

Thor, how would you feel about an iza lynch?

The townread in question is boon, right?
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Post Post #2884 (isolation #176) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:57 pm

Post by TierShift »

There's a brian in this game? :o

I should read.

So uh, you townread boon?
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Post Post #2885 (isolation #177) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:58 pm

Post by TierShift »

Oh god the axle tso shitstorm is still going strong
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Post Post #2889 (isolation #178) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:25 pm

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I'm warning you, thor. You're getting scarily close to.a townread!
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Post Post #2925 (isolation #179) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:01 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 2892, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2878, TierShift wrote:
In post 2876, Izariael wrote:VOTE: Boonskiies

His last four posts and Flubber's fakeclaim meta () are the tipping points for me. :igmeou:

I haven't caught up yet, but this shit needs lynching.
Flubber"s 2870 should NOT be a reason for you to vote boon. Boon's last 4 posts are not scummy to me. Please explain how they are.

VOTE: iza

Tier. Tier I can't. Tier no. Tier don't do this shit. Not now.

Read the actual fucking post and see iza's just trying to find reasons to justify him being on boon, instead of those reasons naturally causing him to be.

In post 2889, TierShift wrote:I'm warning you, thor. You're getting scarily close to.a townread!

tier ffs why

why

If this is a question:
1. I think you're scum
2. A boonskiies vote would have been so easy
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Post Post #2926 (isolation #180) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:09 pm

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In post 2787, The Fonz wrote:Nero noticeably better today.

Why?
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Post Post #2927 (isolation #181) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:10 pm

Post by TierShift »

Shiro's awfully fencesitty.
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Post Post #2928 (isolation #182) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:22 pm

Post by TierShift »

Ok gm I'm not gonna act like my read on you is strong in any way so please can we talk a lot
In post 2800, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2655, TierShift wrote:
I've always seen being bullheaded as a town characteristic until recently a scum player used that to completely catch me off-guard. (GM knows!) It's an easy way to not contribute and I'll meta now.

I literally do not know anything about Tier anymore.

Bulba in walrus and the carpenter mafia.
In post 2660, Shiro wrote:I dunno I think I am way too noob for those big game.

Ahahahaha, me too.

You just accept shiro's fencesitting for what it is?
Do you think her play is similar to the scum newbie game she played or not?

Why did I drop down to 'may not be town' in your readslist?
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Post Post #2938 (isolation #183) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:54 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2934, Shiro wrote:
In post 2927, TierShift wrote:Shiro's awfully fencesitty.


Shiro was ill :/

Shiro has been fencesitty all along.
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Post Post #2953 (isolation #184) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:21 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 2948, goodmorning wrote:It wasn't. That said, why would Scum-Thor make an easy vote, or at least a vote you perceive as easy?

Because it wouldn't have made me think he was scum. Scum can just farm an easy mislynch if that will not make them appear scummy.
In post 2948, goodmorning wrote:What does this even mean?

Bulbazak was scum in walrus and the carpenter mafia, in which he was very bullheaded. I used to see that as a town characteristic mainly.
In post 2948, goodmorning wrote:Because the way you're engaging with the game today feels really really off. Also I'm not really seeing any of your thought process, which is really weird for you.

You're not seeing any thought process, that might be true. Not today at least. But I usually show thought process in both my town and scum games, so that doesn't really count as a scumtell.
If you want some clean thought process, go look at my stuff on egg, please.

What is your own read on boon and what do you think of his thor vote?
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Post Post #2966 (isolation #185) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:04 am

Post by TierShift »

Oh great.
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Post Post #3045 (isolation #186) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:02 pm

Post by TierShift »

Right, so why is boon being wagoned now? Can someone explain? For me, his claim checks out.

I don't think I want to lynch shiro either today.
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Post Post #3050 (isolation #187) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:47 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 3046, AxleGreaser wrote:Id be thinking the red bits in 3041 light them up like Christmas trees...

You might also want to look at 2921

Yeah but none of these even remotely make me want to lynch him.
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Post Post #3051 (isolation #188) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:50 pm

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In post 3047, Izariael wrote:If he was trying to pull the night 1 kill onto him, then why is he scumreading me for not dying?

It's not rational. But you'll have to explain why irrational=scum because way more often irrational=town.

I'm pretty sure scumboon could come up with a better reason to scumread you.

Think about that last line, please.
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Post Post #3060 (isolation #189) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:30 am

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In post 3052, Izariael wrote:I have thought about it, but I've also thought about that thing where Boon knows that playing the village idiot lets him skate by:

In post 464, Boonskiies wrote:It's true. I be cray cray.
I'mmmmmmmm BOOOOOOONSKIIIIIIIEEEESSS. I'm a village idiot. Plain and simple. I talk of hypothetics, semantics, and usually hammer, and yet, I'm always town, never NK'd, and around day 3 I get really good, and catch the scum out and win the game.
In post 2622, Boonskiies wrote:Actually, the night changed how I felt about everything. People I've played with know I purposely play the Village Idiot, and am actually a lot more competent than I let off. But yeah, things went differently for me than expected, and I'll hopefully be able to go back on route soon. I actually wasn't paying much attention to this game before the night phase, due to me being too lazy to read everything, and I was super into my other game that had just finished.
In post 2922, Boonskiies wrote:Well, it doesn't really matter if I do tbh. I'm town. My posts are village idiot. Can't say I'm not consistent when it keeps happening. ;)


I find it quite feasible to think that scum-Boon could find a way to be manipulative about this.

After all:
In post 2917, Boonskiies wrote:I'm a village idiot on town and a crazy mad genius on scum.

Scum don't operate scummily because they do that as town. It just doesn't happen.
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Post Post #3061 (isolation #190) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:32 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 3053, Garmr wrote:I feel like his a sk because he feels the need to announce the fact his two shot bullet proof to discourage who ever is shooting from shooting him again. If he was mafia,werewolf alien what ever he would have his team mates and would probably feel secure.

Well, here's something. A 2-shot bulletproof wouldn't make sense with an SK and a single scumteam. So if he is SK, scum would know that. It seems like a dumb thing to claim as SK.
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Post Post #3064 (isolation #191) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:49 am

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You don't understand. If I were part of a 4/5-man scumteam and saw a 2-shot BP claim, I'd think this lad would be a SK. You wouldn't want that as SK. So he's not SK.

I'm not sure I know boon well enough to say anything about his scum play. He does seem like one of those awful town players that get immense joy from winning as scum
because
of his bad town play. I think he'd be decent enough as a SK not to do that.
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Post Post #3065 (isolation #192) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:50 am

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I'm gonna say this: if boon flips SK, garmr is scum.
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Post Post #3074 (isolation #193) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:17 am

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In post 3070, Thor665 wrote:In post 3045, TierShift wrote:I don't think I want to lynch shiro either today.


Why not?

because I see no reason to and it seems like she is starting to get started on figuring things out
yes I said start twice
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Post Post #3077 (isolation #194) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:30 am

Post by TierShift »

yeah, thor, you got that.
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Post Post #3112 (isolation #195) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:11 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 3089, Muffin wrote:
In post 3083, Thor665 wrote:I'm mixing you up with someone else in my head, clearly.

That said. You did take forever to say anything of worth - and then voted Pere out of the blue with no justification despite making a wall on Anen. That feels wonky to me.

Cute misrep.

Here's the "wall" in question, about Anen. I note without surprise that the first line explicitly shows Shiro's diminishing scumread on Anen. Given the proximity of deadline I do not see any internal inconsistency there.

Contrarily, you're now stretching the facts to fit your vote.

This is a great post.
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Post Post #3113 (isolation #196) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:12 pm

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So why am I on multiple players' scumlists?

I would like to sit down and have talks with these players as I'm having with gm now.
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Post Post #3114 (isolation #197) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:20 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 3104, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2953, TierShift wrote:
In post 2948, goodmorning wrote:It wasn't. That said, why would Scum-Thor make an easy vote, or at least a vote you perceive as easy?

Because it wouldn't have made me think he was scum. Scum can just farm an easy mislynch if that will not make them appear scummy.

Why should Thor care what you think of him? Why would he act based on your opinion?

It's not my opinion specifically; it's town's in general, as the second line pointed out. He wouldn't seem scummy.

If you want some clean thought process, go look at my stuff on egg, please.

I have done. It's also weird.

:/ Please provide some more detail please

What is your own read on boon and what do you think of his thor vote?

I don't really have a read on him; I could see him either as a disinterested PR or a Scum coasting on a claim like that.
His Thor vote was not good.

Me like this read

I'm gonna be a waffle

VOTE: thor

His 'shiro isn't the non-contributor but hey uhhh here have another reason to lynch her' is awful.

And I don't like him :)
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Post Post #3146 (isolation #198) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:54 am

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In post 3116, Nero Cain wrote:but Muffin is prob scum too. Like that whole asking Muffin for his opinion on me 'cause he wanted to understand why we had different opinions on Boons looked really forced and manufactured.

+

neither of them are following up at all.

What are you talking about here? Can you give me post numbers?
In post 3125, Scripten wrote:() () () all ping for me, specifically, and his general "I don't want to step on toes" fake-ish scumhunting has me a little put off. I don't have a strong read on him because I've only played one game with him on this site. (We've played off-site before, but the meta there was a lot different.) More than that, I was scum with him last game we had together and tunneled him to death, so approaching him from a different mindset is difficult.

This is a good post that makes me think very much that scripten is town. Very much.
In post 3129, Thor665 wrote:So when I said 'thoughts' you went with 'names' and decided that was legit.

Your Pere quotes are pretty heavily padded out with conversation about Thor and you know it.
Back up this gak some more please.

Right, this is not only factually wrong, but an awful defence to muffin's points as well.

Muffin, I like your push on thor. There's a thing I want to know, though. Yesterday, you were pretty much set for lynching pere and I believe you townread thor (didn't you?). Where and why did that change?
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Post Post #3169 (isolation #199) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:49 am

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In post 3163, goodmorning wrote:
Why do you think it wouldn't make him seem scummy, given that you seem to think he would have made it if he was Scum? You're implying that you would have found him scummy for making the vote (since you find him towny for not) so I really don't understand. You're thinking in circles and it doesn't make sense.

I would have thought it to be neutral for him to make the vote. He seems to me one of the players who votes for inconsistency and irrationality more than anything. But that's not my point. The majority of the players would not have thought him scummy for it. That's why it was safe to do it.

But it goes nowhere, as I'm mildly scumreading thor.

If you want some clean thought process, go look at my stuff on egg, please.

I have done. It's also weird.

:/ Please provide some more detail please

It looks like you were trying to work up to scumreading him, found you couldn't make a case, decided he was Town who just didn't make sense, and then decided he was worth sheeping? That's weird. That's a trajectory that doesn't make sense.

No, that's incorrect. I was sort of scumreading him at first for not doing shit, that's right. But then I ISO'd him and decided I liked his thought process and found him sheepable. You can see that in and . I have never thought he was town who didn't make sense.

Does the trajectory make sense now?
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