NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[Egg]

/confirm

[Egg]

Vote Pere

I honestly think he is scum.

FoS Thor

^in case I'm wrong. You know why.

Also there is nothing joking about this post.

I'm completely serious.

For real.

^__^

[Egg]

Csareo, I'm considering it very seriously. Just, it relies on some outguessing the Mod.

Dave, technically, no.

Vote Pere

Thor, what are your thoughts on my Pere vote?

[Egg]

Tier, I legitimately think Pere is scum.

[Egg]

Is anyone else suspicious of the early tunnel on me, and how TSO seemed to fuel it?

No. TSO tunneling would just tell me TSO is in the game. Also, see post 90.

Tier, I counter. I'm a 3-shot self reviving vig/cop. In addition to that, I'm a lie detector and got that your claim was a lie. Caught scum!

he has a tendency to open with large tunnels

So TSO tunnels as town but what you interpereted as him tunneling you made you think he was scum?

About the neighbor thing, I kind of think it needs to be treated as irrelevant now. A 5 player neighborhood + Thor's neighborhood = yeah, there's probably scum but just because the pool is so large. That being said, I'm townreading Cho and Thor. And I'm...actually...not feeling like unvoting Pere so there's that.

[Egg]

Noting egg's 124 for future reference.

Why?

Toby, what do you think of csar?

[Egg]

Muffin's naked csar vote is his first non confirmation post. Just sayin'

[Egg]

Csar, did you do that meta research on TSO during this game or when you played with him before?

[Egg]

Csar, did you do that meta research on TSO during this game or when you played with him before?

In another ongoing game.

Jesus Christ Csareo tell me you didn't just do that

Sorry. Shouldn't have asked that. Forgot your guys' other game was ongoing...

[Egg]

Gamr can be town.

Nero, why Toby?

TSO, JDodge has you beat on grumpiness.

Goodmorning, you probably have that impression because I have csar and TSO both as town and they are kind of dominating the thread. And my top two scum reads are inactive (Pere, muffin)

[Egg]

Hate when that happens...

[Egg]

So, reading from my last post, I'm mostly getting nothing but town reads. I kind of feel like goodmorning is trying to paint csar as scummy rather than show a genuine scum read though. And my gut is telling me keep an eye on Aneninen. So there's that I guess.

Well...first off multiball is a pretty safe assumption

Why? Also, if you're right, isn't Nero more likely town for seeming to genuinely assume there is no evidence for it?

[Egg]

Getting town vibes on goodmorning.

Why? What do you think of csareo/tso?

I only said gm was a vibe. Don't see scum going into that much trouble or detail. Content can certainly sway me on that.

I see csareo/tso as likely to be tvt, but that is not a firm position yet.

I do plan to probe, but I'm not sure yet where the probe should go. So taking the opportunity to pick low hanging fruit. It's the way I normally approach hunting.

^I don't like this. A lot of words doesnt mean town and I feel like everyone knows that even though the bias still exists. This is more than just a bias though. The low hanging fruit comment kind of sucks too.

Goofy intentionally staying under the radar is weird to me.

Sorry guys, started reading and can't stay awake. Will try again in the morning. I'm up to the top of Page 14

[Egg]

Yeah, but maybe not as much before.

[Egg]

Why did you feel the need to defend the tell dave had on you?

Why shouldn't he? Also, it seems weird that you would shoot down the anger town tell as easy to fake only to call it null when questioned further on it. And when I ISO'd you for TSO mentions, I found a lot of mentions of him, but couldn't tell what your actual read on him was until I saw your vote on him. Everything from you about TSO seems off to me.

Also, can you explain this:

Tobyloby makes me feel extremely comfortable and I have the feeling I know her. Her pushes are coherent and thoroughly understandable. I'm wanting her to be town.

It seems like a weird thing to say.

Aneninen, you are not a VI. A VI is someone who shows no signs of competence or desire to improve. You seem to understand the game and play to full effort. Why do you think you are a VI?

Thor, why is Scripten town?

(<-this has been covered, I see, but here are my thoughts on it) I agree that Pere's vote felt off, but I liked Izar's vote just before it.

Pere, why sheep Izar?

I don't lurk as scum. Aneninen, Cho, Egg, Thor and Pere have all seen my scumgame when it's working decently. You can ask them

/confirm, at least for the one game he is using me as a reference from. Speaking of that game, actually. TSO, if I remember correctly, you and I both hard pushed a Day 1 lynch on Cho. Cho flipped town. Can you tell me why Cho is scum here and not just Cho being Cho?

Pere, on Page 16, you can probably ignore RVS. Just sayin'

Ok, didn't finish. Gotta do a couple more things then get ready for work.

[Egg]

Scripten, I agree with his assessment of your play.

[Egg]

Holy shit with the posting guys...

[Egg]

Well, may as well read some of this. Won't finish.

Well, I don't really have experience of reading Cho, seeing as I was scum, but the difference here is Cho is being strangely irrational, as opposed to someone nailing her on something trivial like "Day 1 Unlynchables." Also, she didn't vote for people for no reason there.

I feel like being irrational was a big part of the case against her in that game. And the unlynchable thing was a small part of a much larger case. It seems to me like you are downplaying how easy it was for you as scum to make a case against Cho and that makes me a little uncomfortable about your push on her here.

Pere, I didn't have a problem with you sheeping Izar. I was just trying to understand why you picked a player who wasn't very influential at that point in the game. However, there is also possible scum motivation in adding a vote right after a case is made like that even if that's not where I was going with the question.

Pere, why is your entire reads list either scum vibes or started town but now scum? You realize there are town players in this game, right?

For the record, I like Aninen's pigeons.

Goodmorning, why would you say you are reaction testing before you get the reaction? Isn't that kind of counterproductive?

I'm through page 22 (mostly for my own reference)

[Egg]

TSO, you were voting her for like half the game.

And no, it doesn't give her a free pass. But it means being irrational isn't a scum tell for Cho.

[Egg]

But when I first brought it up, you said the difference between townCho there and Cho here was that she was irrational. Now that irrational isn't a scum tell, you weren't pushing her and being irrational wasn't the case against her?

[Egg]

Alright, one more short burst. Getting tired though.

Muffin's attack on Pere reads fake. Doesn't mean Pere is town if muffin is scum though. There's always the chance of tow scum groups, SK, or distancing/bussing.

@Everyone - Pere claimed scum. I caught him. You may sheep me now.

I voted him before it was cool.

Axle being careful not to Amished-tell rubs me the wrong way. Mostly because it reads nervous, I think.

If your scumrole implies it, Blue Mafia Goon, then that's fine.If your townrole implies it, then saying so right away makes a difference in how we scumhunt.Perhaps Thor has a similar role to you....

Possibly the worst post of the game so far.

Falling asleep. Page 25-??? will come whenever

[Egg]

/confirm neighbors with Pere and Thor. Thor looked town in the neighborhood. Pere didn't post. We were assuming we probably had a scum. That's why I serious-voted Pere before he posted and asked Thor in thread about my Pere vote. The hesitance thing was mostly a reference to Cho's neighbor claim lowering the odds that there is a scum between the three of us. I still think Pere is scum though.

[Egg]

Prod dodge. Can't keep up while I'm working doubles. Give it a couple of days.

[Egg]

Prod doge

[Egg]

At this point I must tell you the following: If I got lynched Today you all should examine these votes. It's strongly possible that the scums are between these votes because they want to build a counter-wagon quickly.
In other words: compare the PeregrineV wagon and my one. On PeregrineV there were much content written. On me, almost nothing.

This actually reads both genuine and true? Is there actually a case on Aneninen. I don't remember reading it.

I mean, this is just lol:

Aneninen, has there been any large wagon today you haven't supported? I don't think there has.

You can ISO me to see: apart from my random vote I've only voted for PeregrineV so far

Gonna start my read from Page 30 within the next couple of days. I'm off work until Saturday night.

[Egg]

Not sure how the question mark and period got switched in my first line...

[Egg]

Was it before Page 30? If not, I haven't made it that far yet? If so, quote?

[Egg]

Oh, that whole thing. Yeah, I didn't agree with you there.

Basically, I understand why you'd go after Boon, but I think Boon is town and his softclaiming is poor town play, not scum play. Aneninen seems to think you are scum for pushing a potential power role. I can understand that too. But I don't think it makes as much sense for scum to do that as people seem to think. The whole issue seems like a chain reaction of misunderstandings more than anything and I actually have Boon, you, and Aneninen all as town.

[Egg]

Scum will have knowledge of all neighborhoods they have a member in. Town does not have general neighborhood knowledge, unless we reveal the neighborhoods before any of us are eliminated. The only knowledge that scum^* gain from reveals is any neighborhoods they don't have members in. It doesn't seem to help scum.

Things which reduce the gap between what scum know and what town know is good for town.

(*) Scum and other factions <if any>

^this kind of looks like being too careful not to slip knowledge of how many factions there are.

[Egg]

Yes.

[Egg]

Scripten, why do you think knowing neighborhoods will be more useful later than now?

[Egg]

Does anyone know whether Thor whinges as much as Town as he does as Scum?

I don't know that he's whining as much as maybe pushing his views, but aside from that, I don't think I've ever actually seen Thor's scum game. He doesn't seem any different here from what I've seen in the past though.

On Script, I have to agree that it feels weird that he cares what is in his ISO. However. Weird isn't necessarily scum. It seems similar to the thought that it helps when everyone knows what you are thinking about something. I'm kind of on the fence on Script because I see things in his play like this that feel off, but have a logical explanation.

I think Pere is scum via play in thread, his lack of presence in the neighborhood means nothing really as he was checked out of the game for days after that anyway.

I agree, looking back. But it was a better reason to vote on Page 1 than "hurrhurr ur avatar sux" and I never got any town vibes after that. See my ISO. Pere looks like a scum fuck to me.

My Neighborhood is me, Pere, and Egg.
Egg gave me slight town vibes already.
Pere didn't post.

Discuss.

What did egg do that gave you town vibes? Is he scrambled or sunny side up?

I once played a hard boiled setup and told the Mod that the thread title was offensive.

My Neighborhood is me, Pere, and Egg.

Shit. I found egg slipping knowledge of the neighbourhood in 124, which is why I posted 125. There defnitely hadn't been enough info to conclude you were in a neighbourhood, so I hoped egg wasn't in your neighbourhood and scumslipped.

That was a crumb, not a slip. Same with another post or two before that where I mentioned both Thor and Pere together.

Thor, what is so terrible about seeing no real benefit to being a town neighbor? I mean, scum can use a neighborhood to attempt to manipulate their neighbors. I don't really see what town can do with a neighborhood. Why is that so terrible?

[Egg]

Beginning of post 842.

[Egg]

You'll have to explain it then because that's how I'm reading it

[Egg]

@Egg: Are you caught up? I've seen some replies you posted to recent posts. Planning to make any attempt at independently scum hunting?

No. I'm around Page 35.

[Egg]

Dave, Page 35 you seem to misunderstand my point about Pere being a serious vote for me early on. When we thought we were the only neighbors, Thor said in the neighborhood that there is definitely scum between us. I figured there was a good chance he was right, as much as I hate outguessing the Mod. Thor looked town to me. By process of elimination, Pere was scum. Not quite lynchworthy at that point, but much better than random voting.

Boon, claim your role if it confirms multiball

^this is bad.

Switching my read on dave. I think he's town now.

Nero, I disagree with your point that Gamr seemed to have a different win condition. Some people open their Role PM, see their role, confirm it, and never look at it again. Also, there was a sample.

Heph, what about Aneninen's posts doesn't make sense to you?

Everyone can be sorted into three mind sets town,third party and scum. I operate from a scum mindset (In any game) and that changes the way I hunt for scum. Basically my filters different but it has worked in past games. Because of that I enjoy scum games more and if you look into my past scum games you can see the effort and time I put into each masterpiece. I'm currently trying to improve my town game since I feel like I mastered scum and tbh to me it looks like you have town mindset playing a scum game. People with town mindsets tend to have difficulty hiding flaws as scum.

^weird reply to "I can't tell if your posts come from a town or scum mindset". Can you elaborate on this? I'm trying to figure out what you mean.

[Egg]

Do you think Gamr is town?

As of right now, yes.

[Egg]

If Null or Towny - are any of the counter wagons remotely on scummy players? Vote them then.

You're Scum and all the potential wagons are on Town, is that it?
Did I guess right?

It's OK, you don't have to tell anyone.

[Egg]

Ignore that. Hit submit instead of preview. Also, I'm working on a post lol

[Egg]

So. I want this to be pretty readable, so I'm turning it into two posts. Non-Pere stuff and Pere stuff. Shouldn't look like a wall at all that way, hopefully. I'm through 41 pages:

If Null or Towny - are any of the counter wagons remotely on scummy players? Vote them then.

You're Scum and all the potential wagons are on Town, is that it?
Did I guess right?

It's OK, you don't have to tell anyone.

^This is forced as hell. You are clearly grasping at whatever you can find to make Thor look like scum. He's actually right. A week may seem like forever, but if in 3-4 RL days, Pere is still around L-5 like he was at the time of that post (admittedly 3 RL days ago), and he gets rush wagoned and claims something not very lynchable, there aren't really other options at that point without an extreme flash wagon. Or, if maybe the rush wagon doesn't come. Now we are kind of fucked. Really, the three wagons at L-9 that Thor pointed out should be either voting Pere or consolidating if they are sure Pere is town. The time to compromise is now, not 72 hours from deadline.

You've literally got everything there which made him vote-worthy. Randomly accusing me of doing stuff he didn't like, and when I checked it out they made no fucking sense at all. I hadn't really agreed with anything he said so far and that was the final straw for me, really.

Dude. TSO. You're better than this. Aneninen is scum for a bad case on you and other reads you disagree with? Come on. You know that has nothing to do with alignment unless you can show that he doesn't honestly believe this so called bad case or that his reads aren't genuine. Simply disagreeing with someone doesn't make them scum. (And I see now that Axle touched on this). Ok, in your answer to Axle, you said it's because he can't back his reads that you disagree with. So is flimsy reasoning with conclusions you agree with a town tell to you? I hope the answer to this is no because this is flawed as hell. But I don't see where you are coming from otherwise. Also, can you show specifically where his reasoning is flimsy? He seems fine to me. Is it possible that you are reading him differently because he called himself a VI?

tbh I don't understand why scum would reveal they have a role that could confirm multiscum because that would make them more likely to be targeted in the night phase

At first, I wanted to call this town thinking because it shows that you are trying to understand where boon is coming from and admitting you may be wrong. Buuuuuut. Why are you thinking/talking about NKs?

Noting Heph's naked vote. Hope to see an explanation. Someone bother me if I forget to revisit this. Also bother me about post 1011 at some point. Aaaaaand, I see an unvote from Heph. Heph, care to explain that vote and unvote?

[Egg]

It sounds like you have a problem withthe person I sheeped, then had a problem with sheeping. What's your position on Scripten, the subject of the vote?

As I said in the post you quoted while making this post, I had no issues with you sheeping at Izar. I was trying to understand your position. It seems that you claim to have mostly voted for lolreactions and failed to show us what reactions you got (unless I missed that part, which is entirely possible and if so please point me in that direction). And as I also said, there's possible scum motivation in adding momentum after a case is made if Script is town and you are scum. As for my specific read on Script, I've started to lean more town now that he's started posting some pretty good content. I liked Izar's case at the time it was made, but those points aren't really relevant anymore.

Pere, why is your entire reads list either scum vibes or started town but now scum? You realize there are town players in this game, right?

Noy sure what you mean. Here's my old list, so who started as town and is now scum (not entire list, to be sure).

My point is you are implying that quite a few players are either scum reads for you, or you imply somewhere that they could be scum. Here's your list with color coding on how I interpret your reads. Should be obvious, but red=scum, green=town, black=null. And, I freely admit that I'm redding any mention of scum because my point is that even your "town" reads seem to leave room for the thought that they are scum:

1. Aeronaut*- In some twist of irony has fewer posts than me. We'll see what the catchup police have to say about him, I suppose.
2. Alina- replaced? being replaced?
3.

Aneninen- early scumvibes. Later, saying and doing the right things, but taking the meticulous post-by-post approach with no analysis of the posts along with the stunningly empty conclusion of Pere is scum (418). This can easily be compared to Thor's 477 with actual reasons (even if wrong).
4. Boonskiies- Probably scum

5. Cho- thought the mafia claim was good discussion starter. However, it never went anywhere after that, nor was it used to start discussion. For that, downgraded from town-rvs to null (I think psychologically that when scum claim scum it helps relieve their conscious about being scum. If others take it as fake/humor, so much the better. In any scumclaim cases, esp. RVS, I look to motive) Nothing has improved the null read, including the wagon on him.

6. GrayfoxxxxCsareo- I liked for town at the start. That diminshed somewhat by the TSO tunnel. Grayfoxx is still got some town sheen, and has not degraded it any since taking over. We'll see how it goes.
7. davesaz- Early scumvibes. Improved somewhat, but still hits me when I read some of his posts. There is scumhunting there, but it seems of the cautious type.
8. Egg- Liked his early push on me. His later self-doubt I read somewhat as town, but keeping your vote there after expressing that doubt takes away the town cred. This is one I'm be exploring more of later.

9. Garmr- probably town.

10. goodmorning- Another player I usually start reading with a town bias towards their posts. So when I read them and feel icky, not a good sign. Leaning scum.
11. Goofyd00d- Early scumvibes. Some of the things he says are contradictions in and of themselves. (295 and 455 are examples)

12. hephaestus*- skimmed and will catchup later

13. Izariael- Already discussed. early townlean, but high expectations expected.

14. Muffin- Torn here. Outing neighborhood protown, but votes Cho as scum same post. claims I scumposted without a definition of why it's scumposting (very similar to Aneninen).

15. Nero Cain- early townvibes. We'll see if these stay.
16. PeregrineV- So town! My God, so town!

17. Scripten- early scumvibes. Some wording makes me wonder.392- A vote on him for "town cred" can only be town cred if Scripten is scum. Stuff like that keeps me from calling you town.

18. T S O- I think he's town this game. Probably means he's scum. Not my issue, but not voting him right now.

19. Thor665- early townread, but then downhill (slowly) from there, as he votes opposite my opinion. Kind of used to that, so not a full on scumread for that at this point.
The worst Thor post was calling this game multiball (261 and 265) for pretty much no reason (because it's 21 players?!?). Should there turn out to be 2 scumteams, I'll probably strongly advocate for a Thor lynch. Until then, I'll go back and forth with and about him trying to figure out if he is town that I just don't get or scum trying to trick me. Always fun.
20. TierShift- very early scumvibe, went away slowly. I see peeks of town, but not enough. Null for now, looking for more.

21. TobyLoby- Early null. The styling of some of her posts I think is town, but their delivery and followup are not there. It's like a one-way questioning but I don't think I've seen responses to the responses to her questions. Slight null-scum, but waiting for a strong read to pop.

And actually, my disclaimer only applies to Aneninen, Gray, and Muffin. But I also gave you the benefit of the doubt on Cho, Nero, TSO, and Toby and greened your self read. So the numbers still come out about right, if not a little in your favor. So, I repeat my question. You realize there are town players in this game, right? I mean, even if you are town, this should be an eye opener. You should probably re-order the list from towniest to scummiest and figure out who your top scum reads are even if this means having a pile who you don't like, but have to admit are town. Another thing that stands out about this list:

Everyone on your wagon as of Page 7 is in red

. Do you honestly believe your 7 player wagon is ALL scum?

[Egg]

Prod dodge. Way too tired for any real reading. Gotta be up in 4 hours.

[Egg]

More reading tomorrow and Thursday.

[Egg]

Ok so cleaning fish tanks took priority over this yesterday, but I have an hour and then maybe some time before work tonight, so here it goes.

At the time boon didn't claim a power role.

He claimed to have a role that confirmed multiball. I doubt he was claiming scum and he never implied negative utility. He was softclaiming a power role. And I said you were pushing a "potential" power role anyway so you are kind of missing the point. Even if this is my interpretation of Aneninen's point, not my own. If you think Aneninen was truly chainsawing as you say, get back to me when one of them flips scum. Associatives are flimsy at best on Day 1.

Lol at Nero voting Thor for trolling him (page 43). I'm trying to decide if this is a town tell or not.

The TSO vs Axle arguement is a little boring, but I feel like I should throw in my two cents. Axle asked TSO for Aneninen's posts that absolutely can NOT come from town. TSO gives a quote wall and attacks Axle for focusing on the RVS vote in the quote wall. I actually think Axle is making a good point that TSO is making more of a case than what is actually there, especially when he admits that the RVS post was more "I disagree with" than "town couldn't possibly" because at that point, TSO isn't really doing what was asked of him to make his case. As for my conclusion on the arguement, Axle looks obvtown. TSO, not so much.

I can't give you any real specifics. I've never played with neighborhoods before. However, more information for town is usually a good thing. I also can't see the reveal being particularly anti-town, either. Unless scum get their own neighborhood (which seems like it'd be a little game breaking), they'll probably tell their team all about the composition of their individual hoods, anyway. While this may not cover every hood in the game, it would still be more information than town will have.

I actually agree with most of this. However, it doesn't address my question at all. You specifically said that knowing neighborhoods will be more useful LATER. I asked why later as opposed to now?

I don't understand why people are having trouble reading Axle's posts...The only thing that bothers me is that I phone post, so spoiler tags are basically the same as invisible text which isn't allowed for very good reason.

Thor, basically, you asked me in the neighborhood about my experience as a neighbor. I told you that I had a game or two in my past that I barely remember where I was a neighbor and one semi recent one, but I was scum. I continued that thought by saying I don't even know how I should play town neighbor because there isn't much benefit when anything I can say to you in the neighborhood, I can also say in the game thread. Again, I don't see where you are getting "terrible" from this, much less "terrible, must be town". Basically, it doesn't make sense as a genuine read unless I am seriously missing something, but it makes all kinds of sense for you to find an excuse to call me town if you are scum who I am townreading.

Gamr's push on Aneninen is getting so bad.

Oquote="TSO"] If anyone wants to talk about why Aneninen is scum, I'm open to that.[/quote]

Let's talk. Start by summarizing your case. Use only the strongest arguements and show me why this absolutely can not be town.

 I've played in enough games with scum sprinkled in the hoods to auto default think that. hy should I think there are no scum in the hoods this game? + there's 12 hoodies so I think the probability that all 5-6 scum are in those 9 players outside the hoods is near 0%. I am NOT suggesting that we randomly lynch hoodies until we find the hood scum but just letting town know they are there and not to ignore the hoods and letting scum know that I know they are hiding. 

So you think that without you being here to guide us, we'd all make the mistake of assuming neighbors are the same thing as masons or...?

Tier, what is your read on TSO? And how was Script's 1105 an empty post?

I also dislike fon'z "catchup" post being a bandwagon hop onto PV.

Why so sure that he'd town read someone who nearly half the game is scumreading?

Goodmorning, how would you define "vanity wagon"?

So without the "fucking shitty" etc to make it sound worse, TSO, let me know if I'm understanding your Aneninen case correctly. He called you scum. You said his reasons were bad. He didn't respond. Town would absolutely 100% of the time respond, so he's scum?

Aneninen, can I have your thoughts on the two lines I'm posting before this one?

Dave, do you honestly believe that Tier and myself are tunneling you?

Tier, I disagree with you where you say Aneninen's 418 doesn't at least imply a scum read on TSO.

I'm on Page 50. Will try to keep going before work. After that, I'll be working pretty much 16 hour days through deadline, but I'll check in and help with a deadline lynch if needed.

[Egg]

I cannot prove that "town couldn't possibly say this." I can prove scum are more likely to say it. I can prove town have no logical reason to say it.

Ok. Fair enough. Doing the second satisfies me just as much

he's literally has posted the same monotonous bullshit for 10 pages straight.
but you're obviously okay with Axle repeating himself constantly, though - why do you think that's a towntell again?

ohh, and he's trying to bullshit his way around his lack of reads. v town.

Show me where I said something I haven't made it to yet in my read is a town tell.

Garmr is pushing Axle, Egg.

Not between pages 41-49 where I was reading.

Read above and below, and don't expect a response next time if you summarise things like this.

I don't understand why you're trying to misrep my point when you're good enough and it's clear enough not to have to.

Aneninen, at a time where I was easy to attack, called me scum for bullshit reasons.
I debunked his bull and told him to back it up.
He didn't respond, reply or defend himself in any way.
He still had a scumread on me.
I voted him.
I was now even more scum.

Where do you not understand this, Egg?

Thank you for the answer. This is what I was looking for.

Why are you treating Aneninen with kid gloves?

His side of things is just as important to me as yours.

I'll answer 1637 when I see it in context. But right now, it looks like Axle was accused of protecting Aneninen for town cred and replied by saying he doesn't even see where he'd get town cred for it, which seems fair to me.

Gonna send a few PMs for potential replacements then read a few more pages. Unfortunately, I got to my apartment later than I expected, so I don't have a ton of time.

[Egg]

I'd really like you to unpack this, because Muffin's PerV push feels like the best push I've seen in this game. It rubs me up the wrong way that you attack another player's vote on the wagon you're on in a way that explicitly calls the attacking player scum, but then bend over backwards to point out this doesn't weaken your vote on the wagon in any way.

Uhh. I ISO'd Muffin to see if I could find what I was seeing, but I can't remember and it doesn't even look bad now.

Oh, look, none of my town reads have a wagon on them, fancy that.

Do they not have a wagon because you townread them, or do you townread them because they don't have a wagon, I wonder.

Do you really wonder? What would be the implications of either?

I don't wonder. I think it's likely to be a coincidence.
The implication of the former would be that Thor has a following, which is a mixed bag as far as the truth is concerned; he did pretty much start the Pere wagon, but does not currently have any real traction.
The implication of the latter would obviously be that Thor was taking the easy route. This isn't necessarily characteristic of Thor as either alignment.

Would you like to ask a more relevant question? Maybe, I dunno, participate a little?

Why even post 1260 then? Without the later explanation, it looks like a weak attack on Thor. (Unrelated: "Thot" is a funny typo. Good thing I caught it before posting). I see The Fonz explained things better than I can right after this post, so let me just say I agree with him. Also, you call it a "joke post" a little later. The joke isn't clear. Just sayin' Even if we call this a joke, you are still making other weak jabs at Thor and that's not like you. Example:

I literally cannot even begin to describe how hard this pinged

Why? What was so bad about his response to your apparent joke:

Considering the only major wagon that exists is one that I built...what?
I mean, this doesn't even begin to make sense.
Though apparently you sorta agree it doesn't.

Why does this "ping so hard"?

Right. So now you can tell us who that player was, what parts of your play were the 'reaction test', and what reactions you expected from scum vs those you expected from town. Get to it.

OH, SASSY EH?

FUCK OFF.

Lol, really? Seemed like a fair request. I was actually a little interested in the answer.

Up to Post 1292 on Page 52.

[Egg]

Prod dodge

[Egg]

My goal is to be 100% caught up by the end of the week.

[Egg]

Ok, probably won't get far today, but here it goes.

On Page 52, TSO and The Fonz are arguing over what Aneninen's nervousness means. I think it's personality and has nothing to do with alignment. He seems worried about how people view him as a player/person. I think that's what you guys are seeing and possibly overanalyzing.

I have to admit that while I was town reading The Fonz, 1306 is blatant OMGUS on Nero.

Goodmorning's "reaction test" was weird. I don't understand why you thought Toby would react to you not interacting with her on Day 1 of a large game.

Does anybody have a non-meta or non-PoE town read on Thor right now? I would love to hear about it.

Town for coming into the neighborhood saying there is definitely scum in it and then seeming to be legitimately scumhunting me before Day 1 started. However, I second guessed this when I saw why he had me as town because it didn't look like a genuine read. I guess that could be backed by his Pere read, which I agree with, assuming he believes two scum in a 3-man neighborhood is pointless and needed an excuse to town read me when it's actually process of elimination? I mean, that's kind of a stretch, but...if not that, I have no idea.

That reminds me, how come nobody took issue with Thor's reads list that was all town\lurksack?

I took lurksack to mean null. My issue with Pere's reads list was all of the scum. Like, how do you have 12 scum reads in a 21 player game?

I'm reading Flubber's entrance as town.

tbh I don't understand why scum would reveal they have a role that could confirm multiscum because that would make them more likely to be targeted in the night phase

At first, I wanted to call this town thinking because it shows that you are trying to understand where boon is coming from and admitting you may be wrong. Buuuuuut. Why are you thinking/talking about NKs?

It's obvious Because I'm pissed off that someone with a role would reveal themselves day one.What would you prefer crossfire(if we have multiscum),a vanilla dying or a fucking power role dying? It's the vanilla towns role to hunt hard catch scum and try to get night killed for their townie roles to provide information. If boon is town then his just fucked town over.

So... You voted him thinking he was a power role? How does that help town any more than him claiming?

As I said in the post you quoted while making this post, I had no issues with you sheeping at Izar. I was trying to understand your position. It seems that you claim to have mostly voted for lolreactions and failed to show us what reactions you got (unless I missed that part, which is entirely possible and if so please point me in that direction). And as I also said, there's possible scum motivation in adding momentum after a case is made if Script is town and you are scum. As for my specific read on Script, I've started to lean more town now that he's started posting some pretty good content. I liked Izar's case at the time it was made, but those points aren't really relevant anymore.

Reactions to my Scripten vote
376
397
418
497
499
500

Spoiler: Scripten's posts at the time of my vote

I have had a lot of beer tonight.

VOTE: ote Thor

He's a thor.

I now support Csaro's lynch also.

Scripten's drunk post is also a policy lynch.

People should vote one or the other, my RVS stage is over.

Policy lynchers should be policy lynched.

Thor vote is serious.

Also here. Really busy and currently in the max number of games I want to take on at a time.

Nobody is really pinging hard either way.

TSO vs. Csareo is a lot of reading and not a whole lot of enlightenment.Trying to figure out who's pushing it.

Have a few minor reads.

TSO seems mildly town. Toby and Tiershift feel town. (Tier feels quite town, in fact.)

Nero Cain looks a little suspicious. Cho feels like scum to me.

UNVOTE: Thor665
VOTE: Cho

Because the day is still young. In spirit.

So, in summary, a vote for Scripten caused a massive reaction of Scripten=town while the sum of the spoiler-ed posts indicate null at best.

Which of those reactions do you read as town? Which do you read as scum? Why do I have to drag this out of you if it was your own reaction test?

You are applying a lot more certainty to day1 reads than I am.
I doubt ALL my 8 person wagon is scum, but go look at the reasons given. I already did, and unfortunately for me Thor's vote parking momentum will lead to me lynch.

Unfortunately for you both, since I'm town, and scum being in our hood means it's one of you (or both when multi-ball happens-right, Thor? ), so hopefully the vig will take care of that tonight.

If you want to talk about specific players, probably best to ask. My initial reads are fairly outdated at this point.

I'm not applying certainty. That's not the point. The point is that you are leaving room for more than half of the game to be scum. And yeah, it's probably outdated. I get that. Reads change. But this is where you stood at that point of the game and it was off to me. If you were to post a new reads list that was completely opposite of this one, it wouldn't make this one go away.

I've played with townscripten; he clearly explained his reads and had an opinion on everything. Not seeing that here.

VOTE: scripten

Was that a large game?

Did I say, anywhere, that he wasn't right about the voting situation? No. The post was originally going to be something snippy about how I didn't like any of the counterwagons either. I decided sarcastic would be more fun, especially since I'd mentioned that I found those folks Town a bit earlier.
Bolded: I'm not sure I like this assertion. It doesn't read "making sure we all get shit done in a timely manner". It reads "making sure we compromise... onto my top wagon, of course."

It just feels like you've had a lot of "Thor is scum because <Insert Weak Jab>" where weak jab turns out to be a joke. What are your serious and strong reasons for scum reading Thor?

Using a hard scumread as the basis for my reads is actually quite a solid tactic, Anen, and it's really not indicative one way or another.

Ehhhhhhh. I'd agree if not for the use of the word "tactic". That implies that it's intentional and being done in a strategic way which makes more sense for scum. I'd call it more of a bias for town.

It was the way in which he responded in general. Notice how Thor and others (including myself) are saying that it doesn't matter if the setup is MB or, his push was wrong due to being based on non-alignment-related opinion.

Wait. Wasn't the argument that Thor was scum for having knowledge of a setup with two scum teams? Now he's scum for the same argument even if there turns out to be only one team? Guy just can't win with you people, can he?

That said, why would you expect a hood to change a player's direction, as you say?

discussing things in hood could from my external view, generate jumps and gaps in the flow/trajectory of a player.
any information exchange channel that i am unaware of might do that.

So might sitting down and thinking, whoops why did I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <<< bunch of graphic imagery elided as pointless and tasteless.
So if TSO is the kind of player that can sit down and think oops all by himself, then I suppose no need for another channel.

I can help out here. I don't know about the other hoods (though it would make sense for them all to operate the same way), but ours does not have daytalk, so TSO either had another avenue of communication for what you suggest or came to his conclusion independently. I'm pretty sure it's the latter. Do you disagree?

Axle is town. As scum, he'd know there is no daytalk.

I was mixing up pere with thor I am town reading pere as well. Sorry my bad.

I'm currently intoxicated so sorry about spelling and grammar and shit just smashed a bottle jagermeister and starting on the wild turkey and honey lol.

Gamr is NOT scum with either Pere or Thor. No way he'd mix up a scum buddy and the person they are fighting with. And drunk posts tend to be pretty telling with stuff like this.

Through Page 58. Gonna hit submit and take a shit. Might or might not come right back to this.

[Egg]

That's not an answer to that accusation at all. Thor's behaviour hasn't changed over the last fifteen or so pages. If it's scummy now, it was scummy on page 25 or whatever.

Also, why have you never once in this argument considered what to me was the obvious reading of Thor's post - that he was sincerely mistaken about how common multiball is?

^One of the best posts in this thread up to that point. I agree with every word of it. (I didn't quote the whole quote pyramid. If anyone wants the whole context, it is the very first post on Page 59)

Hephaestus is a lurk-scum, in my opinion. He promises posts all the time but those posts never arrive.

Is there anything specific about him that makes you think he is either lying about being too busy or avoiding catching up because he is scum?

We need mac in this game then we can have egg mac muffin :p

LMAO.

goodmorning is probably best investigated.

I hate when people try to direct cops. If Pere is scum, I could see Goodmorning as an investigation immune buddy. As much as I hate this kind of thing, if Pere is town, I actually kind of agree with this in a weird way and it hurts to admit it. So much WIFOM around this kind of comment. And the WIFOM thing is an observation, not an accusation. Basically, I'm storing this comment in the back of my mind for after Pere flips. Hell, it's even possible Pere is scum, knows there are two teams (or is SK?), and legitimately suspects goodmorning. But then, why not just NK her? Like I said, a lot of WIFOM. Sorry for the IIoA here, but it stood out and I don't know what to make of it.

Egg for vote-parking. Unless someone can point out town-Egg doing this, classic scumtell

No need to compromise when you are my top scum read and the leading wagon. And I'm less likely to change my vote when I'm not caught up. Buuuuuut:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - Inuyasha mafia. Voteparked xofelf to a lesser extent than here on Day 1.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=57612 - Hope+1. Vote parked Thomas pretty much all of Day 1. He ended up being lynched.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=48144 - AAA Mafia. Voteparked Cho pretty much all Day 1. She was lynched.
^These are my last three completed games and I was town in all of them. So it's hard to call voteparking a scum tell for me. When I find a scum read early on Day 1 and don't feel I've been proven wrong, and a wagon builds, it's hard to get me off of it barring a deadline lynch. I feel like I probably do this as scum too, but here are my last three games, all town, and I did it there. Unfortunately, my target was town all three times, but *shrug*. I'm a better scum hunter at night as a power role than I am during the day in thread, so I don't completely suck. lol.

I'm ISO'ing your wagon right now and Muffin is probably vote parking worse than Egg yet was never mentioned.

Nah. I've been voting Pere since before he posted. I'm actually curious where you are going with this though. I don't think I can see Muffin and Pere as buddies.
UPDATE: 1568 makes sense.

Almost never. I find I get lost in them.
Of all my games, I've played 5 Larges. This is only the second one I've started and the first one I've begun as a single player.
Graveyard Shift (replaced in fairly late because interesting mechanic)
NY 169 (replaced in because Cabd asked nicely)
Shadows and Lights (inned as hydra because Noctan needed a partner and I felt bad)
Lord of the Rings (replaced in about halfway through because I like the source and lots of people were dead)
Author Mafia (replaced in because big names and TS ELIOT WHAT)
This is my 6th Large in 2 years. Make of that what you will.

What made you join this one?

6. No mistake. I still believe that if there are 2 scumteams, Thor is likely scum (this was the initial thought- now that has gone up to 100% chance).

So you are either claiming a guilty on Day 1 of a normal game or using hyperbole. Why are you using hyperbole?

But Egg has pushed nothing else. And his initial vote was vague

I've poked and prodded at other people and found nothing but weak scum reads. And I know my initial vote was weak, especially seeing that there are other neighborhoods. Your later play just validated it.

You have the similar thoughts on the pere/thor subject as me, But I don't see tso as scum and you seem to feel similar about Annienen. So how about we start a new wagon. Maybe a muffin wagon since after Isoing him and seeing the way he act around pere while buddying up to thor is scummish to me or a nerocain,scriptian and davesaz wagons are pretty good to or if you have changed your mind about Annienen there's plenty of room there.

Apologies if you've done so and I missed it, but can you give reasons for wanting a wagon on each of those players? Wouldn't want you to just be throwing out names and seeing what happens and where you can get traction.

I also do have other people I'd be willing to lynch.
However, as noted, my prime lynch option is the top wagon. I'm not sure why everyone keeps expecting me to compromise at this stage.
That's not how it works.

Yeah, I keep getting this too. Scum doesn't want Pere lynched.

Muffin, on page 65, you say you are caught up, yet I don't see very many words. Can you provide a few thoughts other than that your Pere read hasn't changed and you are changing your mind on Aneninen?

I can easily suspect TSO's reasons for voting you without knowing or even having strong views of your alignment.
people are attemtping to claim I must prove you are town to believe TSO is scum, that is balderdash.


If you are scum and he is bussing, his reasons are likely to be crap.

Nah. TSO's attack on both Aneninen and you reads too real to be bussing. Like it's legitimately attacking the way you guys play, think, and type. Scum buddies, in my experience, don't get so personal when bussing. But there's another point to be made here. What exactly is your read on Aneninen?

Players who are Town: GrayFoxxx, Garmr, TSO, Tier
Players who are not Town: Thor, Fonz
Players who may be Town: Cho, dave, Flubbernugget, Pere, Scripten
Players who may not be Town: Aeronaut, Axle, Anen, Muffin, Nero
Players who may or may not be Town: Boonskiies, Egg, hephaestus, Izariael

If you'd like an explanation of one of these and I haven't already given it, you're welcome to ask

Why is Gray town? I can't remember a single post of his.

<-Asked by Dave and answered. Answer is fair. Forgot he replaced Csar.

I can't tell whether Axle should be getting scum points or farside22 points right now.

What do you mean by this?

To tell the truth, I've had an intuition that he had been protecting me because of trying to get towncredits in case of my mislynch.

I am not protecting you.

Indeed what you claim doesn't make sense is me not protecting you by claiming you are town.

I have in the thread only claimed I find TSO reasons suspect.

if you actually got lynched or vigged and flipped town, I get no "credit" for guessing you were town, because as you just observed I never said you were town....

I will get towny credit if TSO flips scum.

please try and make your theories fit the facts.

Egg you should also explain to me how town could possibly post this.

It's actually a good point. If he isn't calling Aneninen town, how does he get towncred if Aneninen flips town? Also, he can think your case sucks without thinking Aneninen is town. I've seen bad cases made against scum before.

Egg basically took his reads list and was like "your whole reads list is omgus. wtf."

To be fair, only 66% (8/12) of his scum reads were voting him. My issue was just as much the number of scum reads as it was the fact that all eight players voting him were apparently scummy. But yeah, you get the general idea.

@Egg - it doesn't matter, and you continue to misunderstand me, and I don't care.

It does matter. It's the only thing you've done so far that concerns me about my town read on you. I want it clarified, otherwise it makes me second guess my read on you just a little bit.

Aneninen was not exhibiting any slam dunk tells. Thor's post 401 is correct in that if he was on L-1 near deadline, and this wagon on him had got there.
The lynching Anenin vs No lynch is a no brainer. The list of people I would not do that too however is rather small

Interesting. Can you give us that list?

I kept responding TSO for a while and I stopped it because I found out that he was tunnelling me regardless of my posts.

Perfect. Now I have the whole picture. Both sides are actually pretty fair.

Hephaestus did something similar in a game before, it was abandoned but he was scum.

Do you have evidence of him NOT doing it as town in a large game?

Even if we call this a joke, you are still making other weak jabs at Thor and that's not like you.

Is it really not like me?

I'm just going from memory, but I don't think so. I thought I remembered you giving good cases with strong points.

If I could describe it then there'd be no need for me to say I couldn't describe it.
I don't know why, just like I don't know why I was pinged by BnB in Shadows and Lights, but I was.

I found it interesting though because it looked like a town post from Thor. And the fact that you find it scummy, but can't say why, makes it yet another weak jab.

I think there is an SK.

0_o

why would Pere have any sure knowledge as to whether scum specifically have daytalk here

if you wanted to see the general trend, you could simply have done it yourself.

that's a shit question which serves no purpose.

It's actually a great question if Pere wasn't a neighbor...

Oh shit. Just saw that deadline is tomorrow. I'm already voting the lead wagon though, so it's on other people to sheep it or make a new one. Hopefully this is already happening. If not, let's go people.
UPDATE: Guess it's suspended again?

So you think that without you being here to guide us, we'd all make the mistake of assuming neighbors are the same thing as masons or...?

yes

Pffffffffttttttt.

ummmm? guys walks into the game, is not caught up, votes the biggest bandwagon, and doesn't find anything else worth commenting on in 20 pages. I don't know why you think I should not be suspicious of that or why you aren't. So talk to me about the Fonz slot

Well, that specific point can go either way, so I consider it null. If I remember right, he said he didn't realize it was the biggest wagon. Either you believe him or you don't. But it's not like he made a major impact on it. He moved it from somewhere around L-5 to L-4 and we still haven't lynched Pere. Not a huge deal. I was townreading Toby and the only thing I didn't like about The Fonz so far was his OMGUS vote on you. Do you have a specific question about my view on the slot or does this answer it?

@Thread. Does anyone at all have a reason they are not voting this guy now?

Pere is scummier. Although, he (TSO) keeps misusing the word "literally", so there's that.

But, I realized something else too.
In a mini normal I'm able to follow more or less every player and every topic shows up in the thread – but here I'm unable to do so. Either because this is my first Large Normal or because of the amount of the players. I also noticed that "normally" there are 1–2 pages of new posts a day in a Mini but here, whenever I want to catch up I find 5 pages or something like that. (By "normally" I mean, when the Day is not close to Deadline, not stalled etc.)

@Everyone: does the difference I've written above exist between Mini and Large games?

Yes. I'm more ok with having null reads on Day 1 of a large than a mini. There's more going on and it's harder to follow. And some players get lost and fall behind to the point where you forget they are in the game until you see them post.

Because only scum don't explain their reads.

I really wish this was true.

yes I'll post it in my QT now

Ok, I'm fully aware this is sarcasm. But it kind of feels like trying to feign ignorance to the fact that this game doesn't have daytalk and uses PTs rather than QTs. Isn't TSO a neighbor? Someone other than TSO tell me if I'm crazy here.

Gut scum read on Slandaar.

Also, many people have played with scum-me here and know my playstyle - Thor, for one, has and he's not scumreading me. Fairly sure gm has, he's not scumreading me. Cho has and, afaik, she wasn't scumreading me. Garmr probably has. PeregrineV has and he's not scumreading me either

Hi. Guys, my gut meta read on TSO is that he doesn't seem like his town self. Discuss.

I feel very discouraged from reading because all the discussion before I left was nonsense and it probably is now. We nded a flip. Pere wouldn't be my first choice, but I can live with it

This is the kind of thing I'd expect Pere's scumbuddies to be saying right about now.

Aneninen, can you explain why you don't like Slandaar's Goodmorning push? That's probably the only thing I like about his posts so far.

Barring vig, why would a scum player get vigged? Is this gm slipping that she knows thor is town?

That phrase really pinged for me.

oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god indecision

Nah. She said "if". The only thing she is implying is that she could be wrong about her read. I don't see a slip of any knowledge here, especially considering that Thor tends to be prone to NKs.

Muffin (2055), yeah we are definitely on the same page here. Everything you said is exactly what I'm thinking, especially with this being a large game. My only thing is this: Is there scum intent there or is it just weird?

Wow egg that's a terrible misrep boon didn't soft claim till after I voted him and I unvoted him after because i believed it are you even paying attention.

Didn't you vote him for the softclaim?

If Axle were scum, he'd know if there is or is not daytalk. But you wrote this pretty definitely -- "he'd know there is no daytalk".
This makes it sound like you know there is no daytalk.

VOTE: Egg

I'm a neighbor and don't have daytalk. I am assuming scum chat works the same way. In probably about 300 games, I don't believe I've ever seen scum have daytalk and neighbors or masons not have it.

I've played with townscripten; he clearly explained his reads and had an opinion on everything. Not seeing that here.

VOTE: scripten

Was that a large game?

It was a micro, and Tier was scum.

^LMAO

What? I think you misunderstand my post. I said it doesn't matter whether Thor or PereV is right about the setup. What matters is how they each interacted with one another. PereV's reaction to Thor pressing him about his statement that Thor would be scum if the game was MB felt pretty damn scummy, and the game setup has no bearing on it.

I'm trying to get a better read on PereV, but I'm not sure how well that's going to work

I may have to reread this when my brain isn't fried. I'm kind of confused on your stance here and that's probably more on my end than yours.

Could also have been pretending to not know for town cred. I don't think that question was alignment-indicative

I don't feel like he's very capable of that. Seemed like a genuine townslip to me.

Holy shit, I made it. The end of the thread.

[Egg]

Oh, and I debated a little on whether I should do this, but I see a lot of discussion on it and it's already out there and I kind of want to squash it.

I DOUBT VERY VERY SERIOUSLY THAT BOON IS A COP. I HAVE A REASON. I WILL NOT ELABORATE. I WILL NOT RESPOND TO ANYTHING ANYONE SAYS IN RESPONSE TO THIS.

[Egg]

I WILL NOT ELABORATE. I WILL NOT RESPOND TO ANYTHING ANYONE SAYS IN RESPONSE TO THIS.

[Egg]

Script, now that my brain feels better, you're right. I completely misunderstood you.

Boon fakeclaim more likely to be town- or scum-motivated?

Boon claimed?

TSO, I have a weak scum read on you.

I think those were his ketchup posts.They were a little daunting, but I mustard up the courage to tackle them.

Correct. I mayo may not have to do it again later.

Goodmorning, I had the impression Thor was your biggest scum read, or at least close. And I assumed there would be strong reasons why. Apparently I am mistaken.

[Egg]

Seems like you'd want to convince us to lynch your top scum read. That's kind of townplay101.

[Egg]

No. I said trying to get us to lynch your top scum read is townplay101. You are not playing that way because you are not playing a town game.

[Egg]

Are you suggesting that Scum-me would not want my top scumread lynched?

Why would scum you have a top scum read?

[Egg]

Exactly. You're saying "trying to get your top scumread lynched = Town" therefore "not trying to get your top scumread lynched = not Town." Am I misinterpreting what you're saying?
I want to know why you think I would be trying harder to get Thor lynched as Town than as Scum.

This is pretty basic. If you are town, you think he is scum. Lynching him is how you win. If you are scum, it's not really a big deal if he doesn't get lynched. Why are we discussing theory that is newbie game level?

Top "scumread" then. Are you suggesting that Scum-me would not want my top "scumread" lynched?

If you are scum, you already know if he is scum, barring other factions. If he doesn't get lynched, you can hide behind the same vote tomorrow.

I would kinda like to know why scum would come up with the super-derpy 'not talking to someone' reaction test, though, then openly admit it wasn't in keeping with her meta. That seems convoluted and unlikely to benefit any scum end.

Seems like keeping busy, scum hunting, and doing stuff, but isn't. And if I did something outside of my town meta as either alignment, I'd sure as fuck admit it. People research that shit.

I was explaining to Boon that as the cop you shouldn't be so obvious to ensure that other power roles, who are unsure of whether Boon was playing his role well and thought they may do similar, would know not to play like Boon.

Well you guessed wrong. He's not the cop. So you pretty much made a scene over nothing.

Why would scum-GM randomly decide to push Thor?

Why not?

I'm quite surprised that nobody scumread me after I "caught" Egg having "scum knowledge".

Seemed like a legit mistake.

BUTTING IN

Look at all the people who just sheeped Thor or left him the hell alone. That's why Scum-me would not. Sheeping Thor would be the easy route, unimpeachable. I've said I get lost in Larges...

But people see sheep as scum. Mafia101

[Egg]

Goodmorning, I really don't want to wall back and forth with you while I want Pere lynched today. But I'll respond to that last post.

1. If you are scum, it doesn't really matter who is being wagoned and lynched as long as it's not you or, depending on how you play, your scumbuddy. This is basic. For everyone. Not just you.
2. Your vote is the most important part of your day play, regardless of alignment and is the number one thing you are judged on most of the time. Again. Basic.
3. If Pere flips town, the Pere wagon will be dissected. One of those sheep will be wagoned. Guaranteed. If Pere flips scum, someone will bring up the question, "Who bussed him?". Guaranteed.

^I don't need a response to any of this. It's not going to affect my vote today. My vote is on Pere. It's not moving unless it absolutely has to.

[Egg]

Even with deadline suspended, 86 pages is more than enough. If you are on one of these wagons, I want to know what you think of Pere, Thor, and Aneninen and why you aren't voting them:
[1]Egg: davesaz
[1]goodmorning: Slandaar
[1]Scripten: PeregrineV
[1]Slandaar: Aneninen
[1]WBOCampire1104: Grayfoxxxx


[1] Not Voting: hephaestus

[Egg]

Yeah, like if Pere flips town, I'll probably be looking at Script, dave, and possibly Boon as scum sheep candidates.

[Egg]

You've never PR hunted?

I haven't. I play the same when I am VT as I do when I am a power role, so I don't even know what to look for without fishing in thread which I also avoid doing.

Hmmm... and has that claim changed your reads on Pere?

Why should it?

I've posted about that but this part is obsolete now, because Hephaestus replaced out.

No. It's still relevant. He was still in this game with a role, alignment, and everything. You made an argument that I disagreed with. I was trying to see where you were coming from. The fact that he replaced out doesn't change that.

So, who is town and who is scum?

Town: Me, Thor, Axle
Scum: Pere, Tier, Goodmorning

And of course there is everyone else, but there's three of each for you. Hopefully you do a little more here than in the last large I played with you.

Causation runs the other way: Scum tend to try to behave in ways they can justify as 'How I play as town,' and if called out on apparent meta-inconsistencies, try to claim the play wasn't inconsistent in the first place, imho. Town seem less likely to care about being meta-inconsistent if they think something could be useful.

Oh, also, 'Literally doing nothing' doesn't seem to constitute 'seems like being busy, but not' to me.

Meh. Depends on the player. I personally couldn't give a shit about my own meta most of the time because I feel like my behavior is more strongly affected by the playerlist than my alignment. And Goodmorning's so called reaction test DOES look busy if we see it the same way she is presenting it to us.

So. I'm sad that Pere hasn't been here since I last posted. I feel like I'm not pushing my top scum read enough, but in a large games, my posts tend to be more reactive than proactive. Anyone wanna talk about how Pere is scum?

[Egg]

Tier, see my ISO. Actually, I don't think you responded to anything I posted about you.

Aneninen, that's twice you've dodged the question. Did you even consider heph's town meta, especially in large games, before calling the slot scum for lurking?

If there are 2 scumteams, and Thor called it despite evidence to the contrary, Thor is either
1. Lucky town that got the setup right for reasons mortals will never fathom
2. Scum that already knows it

And you are voting him. So you actually ARE assuming two scum teams now? (Yes, I saw that you had a 3 and 4 option for one team, but you call him town in 3 and call 4 ridiculous and are voting him so...)

And it wasn't a reaction test

I must have seriously misunderstood your reasoning for that vote then. Fair on the rest of that post by the way.

Yes. I guess I gave out too much information.

How does my list compare you yours?[\quote]

Huh? Where in my post do you get that this is about the amount of information and not the amount of scum reads. And are you asking me to post a reads list?

Perhaps a walk through the mind of Egg on how you arrived at a scum read on me.In the interest of full disclosure, you voted me in post 24 before I ever entered the game, so am keenly interested in the process of how you "find a scum read".

I know you admitted you don't read fully, but come on. I've covered my reasons for thinking you are scum and the original one is no longer one. That went away when Cho claimed neighbor forever ago.

No, and no. How is anything I said exaggerated?[\quote]

You said if there are two teams, there is a 100% chance Thor is scum. It's a normal game, so you can't possibly know that without being his scumbuddy. That is exaggerating by definition.

Tier, no, I made a few points against you before that. And I'd agree with you about associatives if I voted you on that alone. However, I'm not voting you. I'm voting Pere.

Beast, my read on your slot is one of the most null of everyone in this game. Heph, a chronic lurker, did nothing. You've come in and done nothing just like anywhere else I've ever seen you. Why are you asking ffor reads on your slot? What do you think of Pere, Thor, and Aneninen?

[Egg]

Flubber, to be fair, I've done a shitty job of keeping up and my "strong scumhunting" has led me to exactly one strong scum read who has yet to flip.

And I thought TSO's case on Aneninen was that he stopped responding to him.

[Egg]

Axle, once again, I can't read spoiler tags from my phone. Please stop using them.

Slandaar, not the point. Pere has been saying all along that he thinks there is one team and a SK unless I'm remembering wrong. Why did you feel the need to answer for him?

Goodmorning, that's not even Amished because he's not complaining or attacking heph. Why did you feel the need to shoot it down before it was brought up?

Fonz, I'd be interested in a detailed look at Thor, Pere, and Aneninen.

[Egg]

Goodmorning, Beast seems to think it's funny to do nothing. Or he just has fun with it for some reason. Either way, coming from him, it's more bragging than it is complaining. Just wait. He'll be here as long as the slot is alive without ever replacing out, but you won't ever see a full effort post. What we've seen so far is about what we can expect.

Slandaar, why did you feel the need to answer for Pere?

Preview edit: see my post yesterday

[Egg]

Tier, Post 2262

[Egg]

Tier, yeah, that stuff and your early interactions with TSO and Toby. (See my post 486). And did you ever answer 1630?

[Egg]

Lol k

[Egg]

In depth read on me because I called you scum? Lol

[Egg]

No, why do you assume it's because of that?

Timing.

[Egg]

I fully admit I haven't done much. No need to reread just for that. Day 1 of a large, yeah, I got lost.

[Egg]

No. That's where I caught up and developed most of the reads I have. I do admit that it's nothing groundbreaking though.

[Egg]

Aneninen, so what made you assume heph's town game would be different? Why were you so sure he was scum? I'm just trying to see if you truly believed your meta case on him or not.

Axle, I post primarily from my phone. I'd be lying if I said I was never on a computer, but I don't have a home computer so about 90% or more of my posting is from my phone. I can deal with the clickable spoilers even though they annoy me. Just the all black ones are impossible to read without copying and pasting and risking losing my own post.

Tier, you quoted post 486. Considering how early it was in the game, just a few mentions is kind of a lot. My point was that you seemed to be dancing around giving a real read on him. And yes, Thor still looks town to me. I fully admit a lot of this could be confirmation bias. Or maybe the fact that I don't see a case against him, so the wagon seems ridiculous.

Dave, why did you need to be asked about your reads in order to discuss them?

Tier, Pere's buddies wouldn't want to lynch him, but would want to be prepared to bus before deadline. It's a wishy washy "I don't really want to but if you twist my arm..." statement. The TSO read, for me, isn't easy to put into words but I'll try. Usually, through his rage and aggitation, I see logic that I agree with. I can usually tell where he is coming from. Here, he seems to pick fights with newer players or players he thinks are dumb just for the sake of it. And he seems too willing to admit he is wrong, considering this is TSO we are talking about. He feels fake. But he didn't feel this way in the one scum game I saw, so I'm not so sure this makes him scum. That's why it's a weak read. Basically, I don't like his play but I don't know what to make of it.

Tier, your town read on me confuses me. Mostly the strength of it. You seemed to be going into the ISO looking for strong analysis and basically good play. I really haven't done that so far. Hell, I've been 10-30 pages behind for most of the day. So, with the expectations you seemed to have, your read on me doesn't really make sense. Like you seemed to want to call me scum, but after ISOing, you sheep me (not Thor?). Why?

I only have pages 96 and 97 to read, so I'll definitely do that today

[Egg]

Muffin, asking people to sheep your TSO vote at this point is just stupid. Even if he is scum, it's stupid. We already have three wagons without that. One or two is ideal right now. We are running out of time and a new wagon is the last thing we need. Pick between Pere, Thor, and Aneninen. Like, now.

Shiro, I hope we are getting some of your reads before deadline hits. Especially on the leading wagons.

[Egg]

Tier, read the rest of that paragraph about Thor and there's your answer. I admit to some confirmation bias, but I like his push on Pere and was already town reading him earlier. Why would he be null for me?

You aren't supposed to agree with tells against yourself. But it's got nothing to do with meta anyway. If I've played with you before, I don't remember anything about you except your dog avatar.

Right, but you went into your ISO of me looking for one thing and found the opposite. And your point about avoiding fights seems more like something you'd scum read than town read. It just feels weird to me.

Dave, ok, that's fair. I would ask you about the top wagons, but I see you are voting Pere, so that's cool. Don't worry about goodmorning. We can probably sort her out tomorrow.

[Egg]

Skimmed while football is on commercials. Sick of reading "will vote Pere if needed". Now is kind of the time.

Pretty sure we are going to no lynch.

[Egg]

L-1.

One more.

Maybe all we needed was for me to bitch and moan once even though Thor's been doing it all day.

[Egg]

Which is exactly what I was bitching and moaning about...

[Egg]

Nah. Wait any longer and we no lynch. Not like someone else was gonna be lynched anyway. 101 pages is more than enough

[Egg]

Oh wow, thought we were a lot closer than that

[Egg]

Mod, Shiro voted Pere on the last page

Fixed

[Egg]

Roses are red
Violets are blue
Give me the goddamn PT's
I'll keep bumping til you do

This brought tears to my eyes.

[Egg]

forgot to ask who killed me and why