Open 572: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem - Game Over

[Not_Mafia]

VC 3.05

Blair (0)-

Phillammon (3)-

Blair, Dyslexicon, Fink

(L-2)

Shaddowez (0)-

Thor665 (1)-

acryon

droog (0)-

Fink (1)-

Pillammon

acryon (0)-

Dyslexicon (3)-

Thor665, Shaddowez, droog

(L-2)

Bins (0)-

Not Voting (1)-

Bins

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-10-11 20:00:00)

- Oct 11th 19:00 GMT

[Blair]

We are in agreement then.

Yes, if Dys is lynched and flips scum it would be perfectly reasonable to find my defense of her suspicious - that is a tell I wouldn't argue with. (Hold me to it!)

My rebuttal to your Phil case is - it uses double standards and is scummy, so I am not swayed by it.

How interesting - your rebuttal is that my case could just as easily apply to Dyslexicon... who you also believe is scum.

I can understand why you feel it's irrational of me to not scumread Dyslexicon, too - but that was a really disappointing rebuttal to the Phillammon case.

Which of your wagon mates has made a good Phil case that needs addressing? Dys or Fink? I could do either, but they are also both paper thin.

They can speak for themselves.

If I had to pick? Fink is more likely to respond to you.

[Thor665]

How interesting - your rebuttal is that my case could just as easily apply to Dyslexicon... who you also believe is scum.

I can understand why you feel it's irrational of me to not scumread Dyslexicon, too - but that was a really disappointing rebuttal to the Phillammon case.

It felt very satisfying and refreshing to me. I also pointed out specific issues I drew as different, and though you disagreed with them you can't disprove them, and the double standard is kind of a screaming issue.

Fink's case is best summed up as 'gut' which doesn't invalidate it as a case, but fails to make it something needing sheep either.

[shaddowez]

Work sort of exploded tonight, so no reads list....sorry. Will get to it tomorrow night though.

[acryon]

Is one bad action make a good case? I don't think so.

Your case on me is that I pushed a "second" read over a "primary" read.
That's called...one action.
You're voting me.

Actually not at all. My case on you is based on you consistently having a stronger case on Blair, yet voting wgeurts. It's an entire day of the action of not putting your vote where it should have been; certainly not just one action.

[acryon]

Also, thank you for picking up a Thor case in my absence Blair! And articulating it better than I probably could.

[Thor665]

You case for why it's stronger uses the example of 'one action' versus a stronger case with 'more evidence'.

[acryon]

You case for why it's stronger uses the example of 'one action' versus a stronger case with 'more evidence'.

Can you rephrase this, because it makes no sense to me in the context of what we are talking about.

[droog]

acryon who do you think is scum besides thor

[Thor665]

You case for why it's stronger uses the example of 'one action' versus a stronger case with 'more evidence'.

Can you rephrase this, because it makes no sense to me in the context of what we are talking about.

I'm making fun of you because of how you're harping on the 'one thing' aspect of my wgeurts read without realizing that basically all cases are about one thing, and I'm pointing out how your case on me is about one thing - yet is still able to be your strongest read, thus showing how shallow your analysis of my case is because you refuse to accept that a case based on 'one thing' could possibly be my strongest read.

[Thor665]

Day 2, you left your vote on someone that you seemed to have 1 reason for voting for(wgeurts)

For reference.

[Thor665]

Heck, it overlooks that my issue with Blair had one reason also - it was really a wonky attack.

[acryon]

acryon who do you think is scum besides thor

I think that at least 1 of Blair/Thor is scum, possibly both. I also think that YYR is probably scum.

You case for why it's stronger uses the example of 'one action' versus a stronger case with 'more evidence'.

Can you rephrase this, because it makes no sense to me in the context of what we are talking about.

I'm making fun of you because of how you're harping on the 'one thing' aspect of my wgeurts read without realizing that basically all cases are about one thing, and I'm pointing out how your case on me is about one thing - yet is still able to be your strongest read, thus showing how shallow your analysis of my case is because you refuse to accept that a case based on 'one thing' could possibly be my strongest read.

Well there is a couple problems with this. For one, your one reason for voting wgeurts was based on

one

action. My one reason for voting you was based on a

pattern

of inaction. The second problem is that this isn't the only thing that makes me feel you are scum. It's the most important thing I think, but it's not the only thing. I also think that you are doing a good job of controlling the conversation. You have almost 40 more posts than every player other than droog, whose posts are clear and concise. Your's are not. Posting a lot isn't scummy, but in my experience, posting a lot when most of it is trying to argue against someone over and over, is indicative of scum. Not only does it work to tear down the character of those you are opposing, but it also leads the conversation exactly where you want it. That being said, I like my other reason a lot better than this one, which is why we've been talking about that.

Heck, it overlooks that my issue with Blair had one reason also - it was really a wonky attack.

hmm, this seems like more than one reason no? You even numbered them for us just to be clear that you had multiple reasons!

1. She *was* attacking me.
2. She never attempted to ask for my logic.
3. She ignored that in Post 74 I explained my logic (allowing her to now assess whether it was or was not illogical - something she hasn't done.
4. When I asked her straight up what she was about (and in her later claim what she was about was asking me to explain my logic) she *dodged* answering.

[Thor665]

I think that at least 1 of Blair/Thor is scum, possibly both. I also think that YYR is probably scum.

You are considering a Thor/Blair/Johnny scumteam?

Well there is a couple problems with this. For one, your one reason for voting wgeurts was based on

one

action. My one reason for voting you was based on a

pattern

of inaction. The second problem is that this isn't the only thing that makes me feel you are scum. It's the most important thing I think, but it's not the only thing. I also think that you are doing a good job of controlling the conversation. You have almost 40 more posts than every player other than droog, whose posts are clear and concise. Your's are not. Posting a lot isn't scummy, but in my experience, posting a lot when most of it is trying to argue against someone over and over, is indicative of scum. Not only does it work to tear down the character of those you are opposing, but it also leads the conversation exactly where you want it. That being said, I like my other reason a lot better than this one, which is why we've been talking about that.

Yes, strange how someone who posts a lot seems to control the conversation, odd that.

hmm, this seems like more than one reason no? You even numbered them for us just to be clear that you had multiple reasons!

1. She *was* attacking me.
2. She never attempted to ask for my logic.
3. She ignored that in Post 74 I explained my logic (allowing her to now assess whether it was or was not illogical - something she hasn't done.
4. When I asked her straight up what she was about (and in her later claim what she was about was asking me to explain my logic) she *dodged* answering.

No, that's a breakdown of a single situation. maybe it's a

pattern

I suppose, but it's certainly not multiple actions because if I take out any of those numbers the case falls apart.

[droog]

the thor wagon is not moving today
everyone loves to attack thor but no one wants to commit

personally i want some more flips before thor/blair

so join me on the yyr slot

VOTE: vote: fink

[acryon]

I think that at least 1 of Blair/Thor is scum, possibly both. I also think that YYR is probably scum.

You are considering a Thor/Blair/Johnny scumteam?

I think Thor/YYR/Johnny is significantly more probably, but I'm not ruling out that team.

[acryon]

the thor wagon is not moving today
everyone loves to attack thor but no one wants to commit

personally i want some more flips before thor/blair

so join me on the yyr slot

VOTE: vote: fink

I would much rather see the Thor wagon get there, but I would be willing to switch to YYR if we get too close to deadline.

[droog]

wait

UNVOTE: fink

we have fink and bins?????

[acryon]

We also still have 10 days, so I plan on riding this train until that time.

[Thor665]

How about Dyx, do you have Dyx as town? Let's flip Dyx which will actually even give *insight* into the Thor/Blair false dilemma people are excited about.

[droog]

Fink replaces YYR

VOTE: Fink

back where i started

[droog]

Thor/Blair false dilemma

why is it a false dilemma

[droog]

dont think i ever gave my opinion on fins so

1) yyr was a scummy scumlord
2) fink joins the hip and trendy thor criticism
3) fink pushes philamon who just so happens to have a handy wagon to hide behind
4) i am too far invested in yyr as scum to not see what more pressure gets me

[droog]

Phillammon looks much worse, seems stretching a lot for pushing any of several

mislynches

in #328,

especially as reading through this, the several clarifications on the case on my predecessory were lost in the noise to me reading it, I find it hard to believe it's so obvious and unlikely to him that others could also lose that in the noise.

btw was this a slip?
need to find #328 manually since the link heads to a different game

[Thor665]

Thor/Blair false dilemma

why is it a false dilemma

Because here is the logic.
Thor/Blair have argued a lot.
One of them (at least) is scum!

The evidence (we have argued a lot) fails to do *anything* to support the conclusion (at least one of them is scum). Hence it's a false dilemma. But people are acting like it's the Gordian knot or something. I could make a number of equal dilemmas.

Blair/Phill have argued a lot.
One of them is scum.

Droog/Thor have posted a lot.
One of them is scum.

Bins/Phil have posted very little.
One of them is scum.

Dys/Fink are in this game.
One of them is scum.

Every single one of those has just as much foundation as the Thor/Blair one. Except no one is derp enough to push any of the others, but the ol' "they have argued" one is always pushed up. If there is some other aspect to the case I missed, fill me in - but I'm pretty sure that's it. Hence: false dilemma.