NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[Garmr]

/confirm

[Garmr]

Vote the muffin man who lives on dairy lane
VOTE: Muffin

[Garmr]

No it can't be Csareo is the male equivalent of Titus? May god have mercy.

[Garmr]

Two things.

1) Boonskiies continuing to try and take me seriously with some really shallow not-scumhunting is funny.
2) goodmorning saying I've done nothing and completely overlooking my neighbor claim is also funny.
3) It may or may not be funnier considering she's part of that neighborhood yet doesn't react to it; this is fairly ambiguous.
4) Boonskiies also had a non-reaction reaction in our neighborhood to my claim, yet somehow isn't over it already. I still don't know how to interpret his dedicated commitment to subpar play.
5) For the record, there are 5 players in our neighborhood. There is guaranteed scum in it.

Huh I missed the neighbors claim thing. I find rvs tedious now unlike when I was new and don't really pay attention to it anymore.

So just curious why you would reveal it so early, it may of been a trump card against the scum as town outside the neighborhood would be oblivious to it?

[Garmr]

Wow this convo is going pretty fast I can't keep up because everyone's bloody ninjaing me before I post.

I think that Csearo is town he genuinely believes what he says and I don't think his smart enough to pull that off as scum just from what I have seen from him this game.

first read of the game.
a medium town with high chance of idiocy.

[Garmr]

This is the first game I have ever seen from Csareo where his opening post was not astoundingly scummy. He must be Town!

Stop latching on to me, flea.

I was ignoring the Neighbourhood claim because it's not particularly beneficial to out it atm.

Yes, I'm in a Neighbourhood with 3 others and Cho. No, I don't think we can say there's absolutely Scum in the Neighbourhood, though it is likely.

Neighbour claim is indeed completely irrelevant to what's been posted thus far.

If it is irrelevant, then why did you post it? I am also curious as to who you're most suspicious of in your neighborhood.

Because it was before the game started, because neither is a particularly typical role, because claiming Reviver in particular would be a good way to get yourself killed, because they're not stupid.
You may also notice that Muffin didn't exactly claim Supersaint.
Why?

Well tiershif self confirmed his role in answering the self revive. He is absolutely off limits for a lynch, as his role is both confirmable and powerful.
And he wont be killed.......... he can self revive.

Have you ever heard of something called joking around? You don't think tiershift is really that do you?

[Garmr]

Reviver*3 is a none standard role Csareo and bastard one at that it would be to powerful.

Pedit:Lol tiershift I'm a one shot bulletproof proof one shot vig one shot neighbourizer one shot doctor.

pedit 2: got damn so many pedits not bothered reading them till I posted -__-

[Garmr]

It started to quick

?

The wagon was established by GM and Boonskies, but quickly gained traction in result to comments that TSO made, him even joining the wagon in its 4th slot.
His opening claim said that I'm being to "serious", and he seemed sincere, but when garmr brings forward accusations that I'm a VI, he instantly switches his stance saying my posts are that of a "VI"
This isn't only contradictory, but a "two birds one stone" scum tell.

Me and Tso have had dealings with a person I consider a vi's (she's a nice vi through) recently and I can't elaborate on for reasons. So that's why I see tso's response as understandable.

I'm more curious as to why their are votes on me at all.
Can someone restate the case, besides me rolefishing confirmable and untouchable roles?

Tbh I don't really see one unless they want a policy lynch. Your better off asking them directly than someone off the wagon.

[Garmr]

@Garmr, do you find it odd that TSO tried to associate himself with me when he thought my posts would recieve positive reception, but when more people started to vote for me, he tried to distance himself with a VI assertion?

Caesar, you elephant, stop being serious so early!

We've got about 150 pages for that shit.

VOTE: CAESAR

This is the first game I have ever seen from Csareo where his opening post was not astoundingly scummy. He must be Town!

I don't think you understand the calibre of Csareo's townplay, to be blunt.

But here he's just showing his ability to scumhunt in a mediocre fashion, whereas there he was actively justifying any scummy actions that he did?

It doesn't? The whole point of it is that if he opens scummily as both, then in theory, an opening which isn't quite as scummy should point towards him being Town.

Now with 5 votes on me...

Wait, I think I'm wrong here.

Idiocy confirmed!

PEdit: Sweetheart, I'm not sure if you were reading or not, but I was actually the one calling you town.

I'm fairly sure you'll rack yourself up as the VI without any help on my part, but okay.

I think that would have the opposite effect and make you more associated with him. I Isoed him again and he hasn't unvoted you and I was under the impression he did after he called you most likely town which is weird.

btw I am male not a female but call me they for every single voice in my head.

[Garmr]

unvote

My cho and Csareo votes were RVS.

@Cho - I'm totally kidding. Haha.

That was pretty obvious why do you feel the need to clarify that?

[Garmr]

I want to hear why boonskies felt the need to say that before I decide if I place my vote on him.

[Garmr]

Is it usual for TSO to become so hostile to questioning?

.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

unvote

My cho and Csareo votes were RVS.

@Cho - I'm totally kidding. Haha.

That was pretty obvious why do you feel the need to clarify that?

He brought up the neighbor thing and how I reacted when I did the same thing there. He chose to out the neighborhood. He didn't think I was kidding, so it wasn't obvious.

I personally read you tone as light hearted due to the ending. I Still feel a bit uncomfortable with you because you had to say it but I guess it answers my question.

Ps you could of totally set up a sweet gambit using the qt if you didn't admit to that on here.

[Garmr]

quick reads list


Town
csareio- town
Tso-t(csareio made tso easier to read.)

null town-
thor

null-scum
boonskies
tobyloby.

VOTE: tobyloby

Her attitude in 168 irks me and that 198 was the finisher. She passively pushing the idea that Csearios wagon was scum motivated while not admitting to it out load.

[Garmr]

Csareo deciding to target the one person who looked to maybe be defending him looks kinda townie. Why TSO out of all others? I can see maybe scum buddies doing it, but it's way too early for that and their interaction makes me go nah.

And I never insinuated people on the Csareo wagon are scummy. On the contrary, I think some of those being antsy and backing off of it are being scummy.

So you think the people unvoting him and not the people still on it are scum?

Egg, soon.

There were no productive wagons at the time - the only thing I did/felt like doing was mildly ripping the piss out of you.

this did not happen during that time.

is your vote on csareo for real now? you didn't do the "MY RVS VOTE IS SERIOUS NOW" neon blinking lights indicator.

So at this time it seems you were undecided on tso what do you think of him?

[Garmr]

I'm going to be honest I'm lost now and don't know what to think.


UNVOTE: toby

[Garmr]

I'm going to be honest I'm lost now and don't know what to think.


UNVOTE: toby

Shittyvote is shitty

Will agree with you as tobys now in my null-town list. I took a step back and looked at her whole posts as a whole. I think I was just paranoid.

[Garmr]

I'm going to be honest I'm lost now and don't know what to think.


UNVOTE: toby

I don't like this post and I'll research you now.

@TierShift. I don't know whether it was intentional but I still thought it was a noise.

Ok, I get you. You're arguing it's noise, while others are arguing "scum would never be so abrasive/genuinely pissed". What do you think about the latter take?

Though, I must admit that I might have misread the situation because I don't find entertaining reading Csareo-posts. If I weren't strongly against WotC-s I'd choose Csareo for that. But, I think his gameplay may improve later.

Csareo has been replaced now by grayfoxxxx.
And stop saying you're shit. You don't feign confidence, push your own ideas and so far seem to keep an open mind, which makes you better than ~65% of this site.

Do you need help with your research?
Maybe some questions will help me get back into my game.

[Garmr]

Garmr's ISO is a bit....bland. Garmr, why do you townread TSO? Why did your read on toby change? Why is boonskiies null/scum?

Tobyloby makes me feel extremely comfortable and I have the feeling I know her. Her pushes are coherent and thoroughly understandable. I'm wanting her to be town. Toby, you mentioned other people backing off the csareo wagon being scummy. Who would classify as such besides nero?

Nero cain's vote doesn't match his thoughts, as tobyloby pointed out. He eventually says he thinks csareo is town and the wagon is scummy but refuses to vote on the wagon. Why is that, nero cain?

P-ed: here are some questions garmr

I town read tso due to the way he handled the situation with that player who shall not be named and has been removed. I never really seen tso so open on a day 1 before then again it's been 6 months since I played with him in a completed game due my ban and me only coming back recently. Alot of my read is also gut.

Toby changed after I isoed her and reread what she posted. I misinterpreted one of her post and put a scum motive there where there potentially wasn't one. After looking at all her post as a whole instead of just each individually she comes off as town.

Boonskies was the fact he needed to clarify that those were rvs votes. No one really asked him for it and it seems odd as town why you feel the need to say hey this is a rvs vote. He really hasn't done anything to strike me as town either. Also he dodged the csereo subject and didn't give his thoughts on it which made me feel uncomfortable.

These questions did help.

VOTE: boonskies

[Garmr]

I am also up for a cho wagon now that I have finished reading the pages after post 361 but I rather push my stronger scum read.

[Garmr]

@anenien
What's wrong with my reasoning?

[Garmr]

Boonskies was the fact he needed to clarify that those were rvs votes.¹ No one really asked him for it and it seems odd as town why you feel the need to say hey this is a rvs vote. He really hasn't done anything to strike me as town either.² Also he dodged the csereo subject and didn't give his thoughts on it which made me feel uncomfortable.³

(1) Boonskiies was just being Boonskiies. I can tell you I've seen that. Even if you haven't come across with him, why is it a scumtell?
(2) So? Hasn't done anything to strike me as town either? This description fits quite a lot of people here.
(3) He has dodged almost every subject so far.

I'm not saying that he's town. He may be scum. But, NOT because of your reasons, Gammrnmhrm.

1.I'm not the only one who thought that was scummy (thor did) and how is that even a defence boon skies is boon skies. Like i said why would town need to clarify themselves.

2.Well if the only thing that strikes me are scum points thenwhy should I think his town?

3.You just made my point even stronger. Dodging subjects is town how?

[Garmr]

@Gammrnmhrm

"Well if the only thing that strikes me are scum points thenwhy should I think his town?"

– You don't have to. But, frankly is he your strongest scumread now?

"You just made my point even stronger. Dodging subjects is town how?"

– No, I don't like that either. I just don't understand why you mentioned the Csareo-subject. You could have talked about anything else too.

1.Yes he is
2.Because I was asked about my thoughts at the time or at least I took it that way and that was the most relevant subject at the time. The cho subject was still ongoing (still kinda is) and not at it's peak.

[Garmr]

9. Garmr- probably town.

This is new this is the first game you ever town read me.

[Garmr]

@Pere
This is the first time in a while someone's actually been on the same wavelength as me. It's feels sooooo goooood as people are usually telling me I'm wrong even when I'm right. But that being said I kinda feel like thor is town, I do share this uneasiness about goodmorning as I don't were to place her because of how cautious she is playing and finally I don't like the way Aneninen handled the way I pushed on boonskies by trying to disprove my points yet being unable to, ending up saying I don't agree with you. It just felt like a failed chainsaw attempt for boon.


@goodmorning

Just curious why vote now and not earlier. You mention people earlier you feel uneasy about but didn't really push on them. I don't really understand a reason to hold back your vote if you find someone suspicious?

[Garmr]

If you don't like Aneninen, try using your vote. I hear all the cool kids are doing it these days.

Well I would, but my vote's on my top scumread atm.

That's fair enough. I was talking more to Garmr.

I might talk to you about your Anen read a bit when I have time - that's not now. Probs tomorrow.

Boon skies is my top scumread but Aneninen is a close 2nd. I would really prefer if you jumped on the boon wagon with me.

[Garmr]

P-EDIT:

@goodmorning
Just curious why vote now and not earlier. You mention people earlier you feel uneasy about but didn't really push on them. I don't really understand a reason to hold back your vote if you find someone suspicious?

I like this question.

I was primarily focused on reading Csareo since he was responding to questions and I could play off the TSO thing.
As far as mentioning my uneasiness on people: one irrelevant post or off gut read does not a good vote make.
I've found I can have difficulty in Larges due to sheer scope of the playerlist, so mentioning people I'm uncomfortable with

in the moment

is a new thing I'm trying; I should be able to put my focus where I want it and look back to see where I was uncomfortable with AND NOTICED someone in the past.
It's also a good way to mark things I may want to pursue at a later date.

Ok so you saying it's a playstyle thing your trying. It also crossed my mind earlier you might be using the neighborhood to discuss cases and that's why you weren't pushing as hard in thread. It got me thinking what warrants a vote to you? Because I use my vote as a pressure tool and I find threatening to vote someone if they don't answer a question can sometimes apply even more pressure to answer. So not voting till this late in the game baffles me.

Can you tell me in your mind what does a vote mean to you and how do you use them?

[Garmr]

Don't push me to claim, please.

I'm almost positive it's multiball. My role basically implies it.

Kinda annoyed that someone would passively role claim day 1 with only one vote on them. If it is multiball all you had to do was wait one day and you could of keeped it hidden from scum. Unless your just saying that to get some town cred but that will sort itself out in time.

UNVOTE: boon

VOTE: Aneninen

[Garmr]

Garmmrn, 646 – I'll ignore your vote until you provide any reasons for it. I don't think you're surprised now.

Maybe you should check my iso and you would find the reasons because I did put some of my thoughts out on you.

[Garmr]

@Garmmr: I've already checked but apart from the part that "I'm the close 2nd" and the part where I questioned your Boonskiies vote I have found nothing.

Tomorrow I may have more time. I'll check the posts between Thor and PeregrineV again because it's possible that I missed things because of the sheer size and amount of the posts.

@Cho: WTF? Yet another vote with no additional content?

At this point I must tell you the following: If I got lynched Today you all should examine these votes. It's strongly possible that the scums are between these votes because they want to build a counter-wagon quickly.

In other words: compare the PeregrineV wagon and my one. On PeregrineV there were much content written. On me, almost nothing.

finally I don't like the way Aneninen handled the way I pushed on boonskies by trying to disprove my points yet being unable to, ending up saying I don't agree with you. It just felt like a failed chainsaw attempt for boon.

Basically What I'm saying is you tried to defend against my points with out having a valid counter points in fact you actually strengthened my points in some parts and that comes off as scummy.

[Garmr]

If you don't like Aneninen, try using your vote. I hear all the cool kids are doing it these days.

already am

[Garmr]

TSO. Your last statement is wrong. You can ISO me to see: apart from my random vote I've only voted for PeregrineV so far. And I posted my reasons for doing so.
My scumread gets stronger because it seems that you're doing nothing but tunnelling me. Eg. out of your last 10 posts there were only 2 which weren't about me in some aspects.

"It's a nasty feeling when you get caught as scum, isn't it?"

– Well, if I were you I'd start to construct a very good excuse now. Your gameplay will look very awkward after my flip.

"If you don't like Aneninen, try using your vote. I hear all the cool kids are doing it these days."

– For sure, yeah. Day1 mislynches are very good.

@Garrmr

"finally I don't like the way Aneninen handled the way I pushed on boonskies by trying to disprove my points yet being unable to, ending up saying I don't agree with you. It just felt like a failed chainsaw attempt for boon."

I didn't find that part, sorry. "I don't agree with you" = "I see your points, even if I have a different opinion". Thats'why I didn't answer anything else. My goal is to examine the players' motivations whether they're coming from a town or a scum. That's all: I moved on, I found more interested things in the thread. I'd have tried harder to push you if I had performed a Chainsaw. Especially because you had been voting for Boonskiies before you voted for me.

It's not the fact you didn't agree with me. It's the fact you tried to discredit my points. Which you weren't able to then you just brushed it off passively by saying oh well we don't agree. It really cut any progress on boonskies short as he hasn't provided much content. You basically just tried wked him.

and no you were pushing on tso at the time and I wasn't voting you and as tso says your interest increases in a player once they are voting you.

[Garmr]

tried to

[Garmr]

Boonskies was the fact he needed to clarify that those were rvs votes.¹ No one really asked him for it and it seems odd as town why you feel the need to say hey this is a rvs vote. He really hasn't done anything to strike me as town either.² Also he dodged the csereo subject and didn't give his thoughts on it which made me feel uncomfortable.³

(1) Boonskiies was just being Boonskiies. I can tell you I've seen that. Even if you haven't come across with him, why is it a scumtell?
(2) So? Hasn't done anything to strike me as town either? This description fits quite a lot of people here.
(3) He has dodged almost every subject so far.

I'm not saying that he's town. He may be scum. But, NOT because of your reasons, Gammrnmhrm.

1.I'm not the only one who thought that was scummy (thor did) and how is that even a defence boon skies is boon skies. Like i said why would town need to clarify themselves.

2.Well if the only thing that strikes me are scum points thenwhy should I think his town?

3.You just made my point even stronger. Dodging subjects is town how?

@GARMR

A simple question.
have you read any of Aneninen's previous games?

While the earliest games are the oldest they do show best where his approach to play comes from. newbie 1513.

Nope haven't read any of his games yet.

[Garmr]

Wow my head hurts after a quick skim through that game.

[Garmr]

@Gammrnmhrm

"Well if the only thing that strikes me are scum points thenwhy should I think his town?"

– You don't have to. But, frankly is he your strongest scumread now?

"You just made my point even stronger. Dodging subjects is town how?"

– No, I don't like that either. I just don't understand why you mentioned the Csareo-subject. You could have talked about anything else too.

1.Yes he is
2.Because I was asked about my thoughts at the time or at least I took it that way and that was the most relevant subject at the time. The cho subject was still ongoing (still kinda is) and not at it's peak.

This is lame, super lame. The question is useless and the answer is made in a too serious manner. Marking as possible buddy tell for later.

-_- are you fucking kidding me tier shift walk out this door right now. I was already thinking annienen was null- scum when he tried to chainsaw me on boon and couldn't respond and your trying to pin that moment as when I thought annienen might be scum. I may be newish thanks to my ban but I'm not fucking so stupid to let someone like you try to misrep me here. PS asking who is your top scum read is not a stupid question either.

[Garmr]

-_- are you fucking kidding me tier shift walk out this door right now. I was already thinking annienen was null- scum when he tried to chainsaw me on boon and couldn't respond and your trying to pin that moment as when I thought annienen might be scum. I may be newish thanks to my ban but I'm not fucking so stupid to let someone like you try to misrep me here. PS asking who is your top scum read is not a stupid question either.

I'm pointing out I found it weak. What about it is misrepping?

The fact you were implying I was buddying Aneninen when I obviously think his scum.

[Garmr]

Will be vla for a day becuase i'm going to a place with no net . Postive news got smash bros.

[Garmr]

Garmr

– Hard question. He's been after the wrong players all the time (not only because of his vote for me, I mean Toby and Boonskiies too) and I don't know whether it comes from a town or a scum mindset. Unsorted.

Everyone can be sorted into three mind sets town,third party and scum. I operate from a scum mindset (In any game) and that changes the way I hunt for scum. Basically my filters different but it has worked in past games. Because of that I enjoy scum games more and if you look into my past scum games you can see the effort and time I put into each masterpiece. I'm currently trying to improve my town game since I feel like I mastered scum and tbh to me it looks like you have town mindset playing a scum game. People with town mindsets tend to have difficulty hiding flaws as scum.



anyway

some reads I haven't really talked about.

Scripten

- I don't know what think of this guy his post are dull and i'm curious about his defenation of town cred is and why anyone who is voting him would get it. and tbh his vote on pere looks like a little bit of a off.

null-scum

EGG- Egg is a weird read I like some of his posts(452 for example) even through I don't agree with his conclusions (his veiw on pere). But him being wrong doesn't make him scum -I feel comfortable placing him as town.

davesaz- tbh he has a lot of wording in his post and I don't like some of conclusions. In my eyes he hasn't really impacted the game so null.

[Garmr]

I was supposed to do my reads in different colours what happened forum:(

[Garmr]

@Garmr. In theory, everyone can be sorted. In pratice, it's not always that easy for me. In your case, you seem to have a town mindset. However, a town mindset can be mimed by a scum too. Since I don't really get your votes and reads, I'm not sure whether you're town reading the game in an entirely different way or a scum, imitating a town mindset. Your latest post suggests the first possibility, on the other hand.

I don't think you got what I meant but that's just talking about theory and I don't want to clog the chat up.

Talking about not getting things.

@axxle

I don't get what your trying to accomplish with the mediator approach?

[Garmr]

I

did

get what you meant but that didn't help me sorting you. (And you must admit, the thing you explained can be faked as well.) That'swhy I answered the thing I did.

What's your opinion about Boonskiies now? Because now it's

me

who didn't like his recent posts. (931, 933, 939)

Your better off asking ffery or pirate mollie what I'm talking about because I'm finding difficult explaining explaining it in a way that won't clog up about half a page of this and they introduced me to the concept. But it's not something you fake because even if you did fake it wouldn't change peoples reads for the better people tend to get more suspicious.

anyway

I still don't like boon skies. But tbh I don't understand why scum would reveal they have a role that could confirm multiscum because that would make them more likely to be targeted in the night phase. This has me frustrated because I don't know how to interpret it.

[Garmr]

At this point I must tell you the following: If I got lynched Today you all should examine these votes. It's strongly possible that the scums are between these votes because they want to build a counter-wagon quickly.
In other words: compare the PeregrineV wagon and my one. On PeregrineV there were much content written. On me, almost nothing.

This actually reads both genuine and true? Is there actually a case on Aneninen. I don't remember reading it.

I mean, this is just lol:

Aneninen, has there been any large wagon today you haven't supported? I don't think there has.

You can ISO me to see: apart from my random vote I've only voted for PeregrineV so far

Gonna start my read from Page 30 within the next couple of days. I'm off work until Saturday night.

I made a case -_-.

[Garmr]

Was it before Page 30? If not, I haven't made it that far yet? If so, quote?

TSO. Your last statement is wrong. You can ISO me to see: apart from my random vote I've only voted for PeregrineV so far. And I posted my reasons for doing so.
My scumread gets stronger because it seems that you're doing nothing but tunnelling me. Eg. out of your last 10 posts there were only 2 which weren't about me in some aspects.

"It's a nasty feeling when you get caught as scum, isn't it?"

– Well, if I were you I'd start to construct a very good excuse now. Your gameplay will look very awkward after my flip.

"If you don't like Aneninen, try using your vote. I hear all the cool kids are doing it these days."

– For sure, yeah. Day1 mislynches are very good.

@Garrmr

"finally I don't like the way Aneninen handled the way I pushed on boonskies by trying to disprove my points yet being unable to, ending up saying I don't agree with you. It just felt like a failed chainsaw attempt for boon."

I didn't find that part, sorry. "I don't agree with you" = "I see your points, even if I have a different opinion". Thats'why I didn't answer anything else. My goal is to examine the players' motivations whether they're coming from a town or a scum. That's all: I moved on, I found more interested things in the thread. I'd have tried harder to push you if I had performed a Chainsaw. Especially because you had been voting for Boonskiies before you voted for me.

It's not the fact you didn't agree with me. It's the fact you tried to discredit my points. Which you weren't able to then you just brushed it off passively by saying oh well we don't agree. It really cut any progress on boonskies short as he hasn't provided much content. You basically just tried wked him.

and no you were pushing on tso at the time and I wasn't voting you and as tso says your interest increases in a player once they are voting you.

a small summary case here but most of my views can be seen between my debate through i have an updated view on him and it's still scum I just been playing to much smash bros to be bothered typing it out. I also remember tso making a case earlier. There were also comments from other players who aren't on the wagon why he is scummy as well.

[Garmr]

Oh, that whole thing. Yeah, I didn't agree with you there.

Basically, I understand why you'd go after Boon, but I think Boon is town and his softclaiming is poor town play, not scum play. Aneninen seems to think you are scum for pushing a potential power role. I can understand that too. But I don't think it makes as much sense for scum to do that as people seem to think. The whole issue seems like a chain reaction of misunderstandings more than anything and I actually have Boon, you, and Aneninen all as town.

At the time boon didn't claim a power role.

[Garmr]

I should rephrase that, at the time Aneninen did his thing with boon. Boon didn't even hint at a power role this comes after Annienens chainsaw defense of him. Also he admits he doesn't even think Boon is town he just wants to discredit my points which he didn't. To me that's a scum that doesn't want to make his read look bad but backfires.

[Garmr]

@Garmrmrhh. I can see that you had drawn a lot of "Regardless Of" cards before the game started. You needn't play all of them at me. You'll need them later.

I don't understand this. Please explain.

[Garmr]

I explained my posts about Boonskiies and about my problems with your case against him. Our conversation was ended because you assumed that I'd been unable to understand your posts. Basicly, you're discarding everything I post unless you can add it to your case. Hadn't you do so, you'd know what a "Regardless of Card" is.

I don't discard everything you post and I have been communicating to you as well like in post 942,967,969 for example were I try to explain my mindset and was trying to figure out how you were thinking as well with mindset thing. You didn't understand what i was trying to convoy and i gave up and dropped it.

Now you mention it, It's a great time to bring out more things I find scummy about you.

Boonskies was the fact he needed to clarify that those were rvs votes.¹ No one really asked him for it and it seems odd as town why you feel the need to say hey this is a rvs vote. He really hasn't done anything to strike me as town either.² Also he dodged the csereo subject and didn't give his thoughts on it which made me feel uncomfortable.³

(1) Boonskiies was just being Boonskiies. I can tell you I've seen that. Even if you haven't come across with him, why is it a scumtell?
(2) So? Hasn't done anything to strike me as town either? This description fits quite a lot of people here.
(3) He has dodged almost every subject so far.

I'm not saying that he's town. He may be scum. But, NOT because of your reasons

, Gammrnmhrm.

Garmrmr. I see that you thought I was trying to protect Boonskiies. It's my fault but I forgot to tell you something. I've known him from Mini #1585. In that game he had the same Day1 gameplay before he replaced out and he was town.

That's why I thought he was town.

(As for my reads now I need to follow the recent events.)

This is a major contradiction. At the time you keeped your thoughts open and when you thought he might come off as town you say you defended him becuase you thought he was town. This is a major slip up because as town you would remember your read at the time.

Garmmrn, 646 – I'll ignore your vote until you provide any reasons for it. I don't think you're surprised now.

ignoring someones vote and admitting outloud is not what i would consider a town move. I would assume a player with your mindset would question it if you were town. To me it sounds like you didn't want to get dragged out in the open.

I'll put this in a spoiler as this post 1003 is full of information.

Spoiler:

Okay.
It seems that many of the active players are doing the following:
(1) calling me scum regardless of my posts
(2) trying to discredit me in every possible way (the most "popular" amongst these way are the "he's unable to understand our posts" and the "he's unable to make rational arguments")
(3) talking AT me instead of talking TO me.

It's clear that some of the players have a GREAT interest in the things above, so as to reach a situation where the possible answers for EVERYTHING which comes from me are
(1) I don't care because he's scum
(2) I don't care because he's an idiot.

I DO have ideas about the emergence of this situation and I do have about the players who have interest in it but, it seems that someone else will have to discover these facts because these would be discredited pieces of information if they were coming from my slot.

Mind these:

If you WERE interested in my answers you could have asked questions. It didn't happen.
If you NEEDED information for getting a read on me you could have maintained a real communication instead of asking OTHERS about me. It didn't happen.
If you WERE really thinking that I didn't understand your posts or I was unable to express myself, you could have pointed out the concerning bits of information so as to resolve all the possible misunderstandings. It didn't happen.

Therefore, from now on, I refuse to communicate with the players mentioned above because it's pointless. Should you change your attitude, I'd change my attitude too.

Feel free to lynch me. It's not true that I don't care. In this particular game I strongly think that my lynch would be LITERALLY an informational lynch. After my flip my alignment will be cleared and there will be plenty of time for reading this Day again to get plenty of information – despite the fact that many of the players WILL be saying "he was lynched because he was stupid".

Remember one fact. I'm not the best player on this forum but, I'm not an idiot.
Never underestimate anyone. (Especially a player who has been tried to be killed IN REAL LIFE before.)

_____

post-edit. PeregrineV, your question about Scripten is noted.

This

is unseful kind of communication, I'll answer it but it's possible that the answer will come tomorrow.

WTF is this post. It's you just playing the victim card. The motive I see for this post is you looking to survive.

1.First you say calling you scum regardless of your posts are you a dumb ass we are calling you scum BECAUSE OF YOUR GOD DAMN POSTS.

2.One your using those out of context. The your not understanding what I'm posting was the mind set thing this was not incriminating you in anyway and

you didn't understand it but refused to try.

and the rational argument thing is a comparison between your older games and this one and I described in detail why your argument wouldn't make sense from a town perspective you just fucking got caught out son.

3 pfff player are talking to you and you discarded them this is pretty much you trying to play the pity card.

If you WERE interested in my answers you could have asked questions. It didn't happen.

@anenien
What's wrong with my reasoning?

If you NEEDED information for getting a read on me you could have maintained a real communication instead of asking OTHERS about me. It didn't happen.

That's why people have been talking to you arguing with you.

If you WERE really thinking that I didn't understand your posts or I was unable to express myself, you could have pointed out the concerning bits of information so as to resolve all the possible misunderstandings. It didn't happen.

No it's because you don't want to listen and when you tried you say shit like this

Garmmrn, 646 – I'll ignore your vote until you provide any reasons for it. I don't think you're surprised now.

@TSO. From now on, I'm ignoring your posts about calling me scum. You call me scum regardless of my posts and I still remember that you've been doing this since I called you scum for the first time.

You can't just ignore shit and then cry when people aren't resolving stuff with you. I Didn't say my reasons and converse with you you'd probally wouldn't of said much about me at all or interacted much.

Feel free to lynch me. It's not true that I don't care. In this particular game I strongly think that my lynch would be LITERALLY an informational lynch. After my flip my alignment will be cleared and there will be plenty of time for reading this Day again to get plenty of information – despite the fact that many of the players WILL be saying "he was lynched because he was stupid".

Remember one fact. I'm not the best player on this forum but, I'm not an idiot.
Never underestimate anyone. (Especially a player who has been tried to be killed IN REAL LIFE before.)

What does this sop story accomplish your trying to gain empathy it does nothing as town. Your lynch would provide a lot of information as well.

post 1003 (assuming you read spoiler)
Is a desperate flail it shows your survival mentality it's only aimed at the people who are actually actively pushing your wagon. It shows you are more concerned with stopping the people pushing and than actually finding out the reasoning for the people who aren't pushing. This is designed to try and get people to town read you and feel guilty and throw mud on the people actually pushing cases. It screams scum motive as I can not see how town would post such a worthless piece of shit.

[Garmr]

I

Didn't say my reasons and converse with you you'd probally wouldn't of said much about me at all or interacted much.

If I*

[Garmr]

^ This is more reason to lynch this guy.

[Garmr]

^ This is more reason to lynch this guy.

1.I know you have posted a couple of things other than Anen related, but are you even bothering to seriously ready anyone else? 2.Can you explain in a little more detail how being scum is the only reason someone might aggressively defend against an attacker who seems to be deliberately misunderstanding one's posts?

1
Yes I have bothered to read other people I have strong stance that tso and pere are town and will not vote them today. I have been engaging with other people while pushing my main case which you acknowledged in your post so the original question loses it's umpphh phrasing it differently would have a more powerful effect.

2This question is meh and shows your bias seriously you could phrase that way better as it push your opinion into someones mouth. The scenario was I was pushing boon skies who may or may of not been town in the eyes of annienen (null read) and he aggressively defended boon to discredit my reasoning not really to defend boon skies as at the time others had said stuff about boon like thor and he didn't bother with them just me. He was unable to discredit my reasoning and played it off as lets agree to disagree. Town don't seek to discredit cases for the sake of trying to make another player look bad.


Davez a side note to help improve your game try to ask question that don't push what your thinking onto someone ask question to try and draw out what they are thinking. It does give others a better read on what your thinking sure but you should save that for the cases as your opinion in question taints the answer.

[Garmr]

@GARMR you appear to have missed this.

[...] Also he admits he doesn't even think Boon is town he just wants to

discredit

my points which he didn't.

Hi I might have missed it but i reallly dont think so.

Your statement above speaks exactly to the point of motivation
I believe he has stated he does not accept your points about Boon. He said exactly that recently Aneneinen: "Another possible interpretation would be the following. "I'm not saying that he's town. He may be scum. But, NOT because of your reasons.""

Did he actually say "he just wants to discredit", or did he really say he disagrees with the validity of your statements/reasons.

To me that's a scum that doesn't want to make his read look bad but backfires.

If it incontrovertible (because he '

admits

' it) that he "

just wants to discredit you

" then I agree, that is exceedingly scummy. Please show me your claim is true

?

(Quote ebwoped to added trailing ?)

I did miss it sorry

(1) Boonskiies was just being Boonskiies.

I can tell you I've seen that

. Even if you haven't come across with him, why is it a scumtell?

These bolded words are the ones that give away the motive. It's a accusation that didn't need to be there he could of easily had the sentence with out it in fact it would look alot better with out it. I feel like this gives away the motive as him trying to push me off as scummy and discredit me and failing.




But in short he never admitted to trying to discredit me and I don't think he ever will.

[Garmr]

^ This is more reason to lynch this guy.

1.I know you have posted a couple of things other than Anen related, but are you even bothering to seriously ready anyone else? 2.Can you explain in a little more detail how being scum is the only reason someone might aggressively defend against an attacker who seems to be deliberately misunderstanding one's posts?

1
Yes I have bothered to read other people I have strong stance that tso and pere are town and will not vote them today. I have been engaging with other people while pushing my main case which you acknowledged in your post so the original question loses it's umpphh phrasing it differently would have a more powerful effect.

2This question is meh and shows your bias seriously you could phrase that way better as it push your opinion into someones mouth. The scenario was I was pushing boon skies who may or may of not been town in the eyes of annienen (null read) and he aggressively defended boon to discredit my reasoning not really to defend boon skies as at the time others had said stuff about boon like thor and he didn't bother with them just me. He was unable to discredit my reasoning and played it off as lets agree to disagree. Town don't seek to discredit cases for the sake of trying to make another player look bad.


Davez a side note to help improve your game try to ask question that don't push what your thinking onto someone ask question to try and draw out what they are thinking. It does give others a better read on what your thinking sure but you should save that for the cases as your opinion in question taints the answer.

Let's try that again, without the specific example.

Player A posts something. Player B attacks player A in a way which appears to be deliberately misunderstanding A's posts. Player A defends. Player B misunderstands Player A's defense and continues to attack. Ad infinitum.

Is player A's defense something only scum would do? Or might A as town aggressively defend against an attacker who is misunderstanding A's posts?

What are your thoughts on the town or scum motivations of player B in this situation?

No player A isn't in the wrong it's not something only scum would do and player B could be town or scum as well. Player B town motivation would be him trying to push his case because he doesn't realize he misunderstood something and his scum motivation could to be to make player A look scummy to get a mislynch. It's hard to tell what motivation it is with out something slipping.

[Garmr]

@GARMR you appear to have missed this.

[...] Also he admits he doesn't even think Boon is town he just wants to

discredit

my points which he didn't.

Hi I might have missed it but i reallly dont think so.

Your statement above speaks exactly to the point of motivation
I believe he has stated he does not accept your points about Boon. He said exactly that recently Aneneinen: "Another possible interpretation would be the following. "I'm not saying that he's town. He may be scum. But, NOT because of your reasons.""

Did he actually say "he just wants to discredit", or did he really say he disagrees with the validity of your statements/reasons.

To me that's a scum that doesn't want to make his read look bad but backfires.

If it incontrovertible (because he '

admits

' it) that he "

just wants to discredit you

" then I agree, that is exceedingly scummy. Please show me your claim is true

?

(Quote ebwoped to added trailing ?)

I did miss it sorry

(1) Boonskiies was just being Boonskiies.

I can tell you I've seen that

. Even if you haven't come across with him, why is it a scumtell?

These bolded words are the ones that give away the motive. It's a accusation that didn't need to be there he could of easily had the sentence with out it in fact it would look alot better with out it. I feel like this gives away the motive as him trying to push me off as scummy and discredit me and failing.




But in short he never admitted to trying to discredit me and I don't think he ever will.

He also didnt admit to thinking Boonskies is town, he kinda specifically said
"I'm not saying that he's town. He may be scum. But, NOT because of your reasons."

he agreed to the possibilty of it in order to specifically point out he does not agree with your reasons.

If he started rubbishing you, your intelligence, your skill, your interest in the game, .... that would be perhaps discrediting you instead of your points.
BTW I find Boonskies to a significantly different player, hence Aneninen pointing out that he has seen Boonskies being Boonskies is important.

If you poke around in my playing history for instance you will find, Hey Axle has never played with Boonskies, thats weird. FYI: I have read Boonksies games.(Where read means tried to guess his alignment.) See: I feel the need to tell you and justify how I know about Boonskies too.

I am not seeing what you are seeing.
am I trying to discredit your read?

No it doesn't discredit my read. Even through I'm starting to see why my starting reasoning may of not been the best which I hate to admit. But the way his acted about his wagon doesn't ring town to me.

So what do you think of posts 1003 and 1050.

[Garmr]

"If it is multiball all you had to do was wait one day and you could of keeped it hidden from scum." is p silly. Scum already know if its mb or not.

Potential scumslip

I think nero just slipped he confirmed that scum know it's multiball

[Garmr]

"If it is multiball all you had to do was wait one day and you could of keeped it hidden from scum." is p silly. Scum already know if its mb or not.

Potential scumslip

I think nero just slipped he confirmed that scum know it's multiball

Ignore this I didn't read the not thing.

[Garmr]

"If it is multiball all you had to do was wait one day and you could of keeped it hidden from scum." is p silly. Scum already know if its mb or not.

Potential scumslip

I think nero just slipped he confirmed that scum know it's multiball

Ehhh... I called it out, but I'm not scumreading him too hard for it. Jumping on tiny things like that pushes mislynches. I disagree that it's worth calling it a scumslip.

P-Edit - TBH, even if it didn't have the "or not."

So you do find it scummy through? Since you don't think it's a slip what reason do you find it scummy for?

[Garmr]

Whats weird about it? Seems like it would be basic logic.

I had a game were the scum team legit thought me and my mason partner were another scum team. I was also the vig the game was called mini 1523 viscon desert.

[Garmr]

Note to self

Fonz- gets the townie tick of approval
Nero- is starting to look suspicious.

[Garmr]

Why is fonz townie, why am I suspicious?

Because I don't see what's wrong with what fonz is saying. I actually can see the thought he puts behind some of answer even if I don't agree with every read.


While on the other hand your just Like why are you scum reading him why is this guy a town/scum read even if they already explained it that or basing arguments on assumed knowledge which can't be proven or disproven. You also don't seem natural it's like you force yourself into a situation were you label someone as scum and then get in a heated debut. Sure people get into debuts all the time but not by going. "Me nero, why are you town/scum reading? oh that anwser you scum, Me debut, me look town *beats chest.*" or "Me nero, me assume you have more knowledge, you can't debate that since you can't prove don't have knowledge, You scum Me debut, me look town *beats chest.*" That's how I feel when I read your game.

[Garmr]

happy scumday thor

[Garmr]

tbh I don't understand why scum would reveal they have a role that could confirm multiscum because that would make them more likely to be targeted in the night phase

At first, I wanted to call this town thinking because it shows that you are trying to understand where boon is coming from and admitting you may be wrong. Buuuuuut. Why are you thinking/talking about NKs?

It's obvious Because I'm pissed off that someone with a role would reveal themselves day one.What would you prefer crossfire(if we have multiscum),a vanilla dying or a fucking power role dying? It's the vanilla towns role to hunt hard catch scum and try to get night killed for their townie roles to provide information. If boon is town then his just fucked town over.

[Garmr]

In post 1314, Garmr wrote:

In post 1311, Nero Cain wrote:Why is fonz townie, why am I suspicious?


Because I don't see what's wrong with what fonz is saying. I actually can see the thought he puts behind some of answer even if I don't agree with every read.


While on the other hand your just Like why are you scum reading him why is this guy a town/scum read even if they already explained it that or basing arguments on assumed knowledge which can't be proven or disproven. You also don't seem natural it's like you force yourself into a situation were you label someone as scum and then get in a heated debut. Sure people get into debuts all the time but not by going. "Me nero, why are you town/scum reading? oh that anwser you scum, Me debut, me look town *beats chest.*" or "Me nero, me assume you have more knowledge, you can't debate that since you can't prove don't have knowledge, You scum Me debut, me look town *beats chest.*" That's how I feel when I read your game.


cute.

Even if that was remotely close to my gameplay as thus my meta why would my meta be suspicious unless you are arguing that its my scum meta but just forgot to include that part?

What do you like from Fonz?

My fonz read is is gut as I like the way he handled himself with good morning and you. While also seeing that his actually trying to figure things out.

Nero cain I pretty much don't like doing meta cases because I suck with them. I'm saying your objective looks scum orientated and you provide no real content. I'm accusing you of forcing yourself into arguments to look town,Using cases with role pms and additional information that town don't have so people can't refute them so you can find a reason to vote them, while also providing little content as possible on the current game state. If your saying your meta is your defense then you can go fuck yourself.

[Garmr]

(4) Same goes for Egg, eg. 1173. (He also find the post from Garmr he quoted there strange. I knew that Garmr had ignored my answer so as to keep scumreading me but I didn't point it out because I thought it wouldn't have made any difference.)

*Sneezes* Sorry I'm allergic to bs. If you really did see same thing as egg(which I answered to egg) I guarantee you would of said something because that hasn't stopped you in the past.

[Garmr]

I did find something quite weird was going on, it was probably weird in the sense of fferlyt trajectory

There's a little problem with this theory. If it's multi scum like people keep bringing up. Then wouldn't scum be actually trying to scum hunt to so they don't have to fake it?

[Garmr]

I did find something quite weird was going on, it was probably weird in the sense of fferlyt trajectory

There's a little problem with this theory. If it's multi scum like people keep bringing up. Then wouldn't scum be actually trying to scum hunt to so they don't have to fake it?

Sorry but no, its not actually a theory, it is an, I dont understand.

The trajectory thing is about, the posts before and after point in time not making sense to me as a sequence. Something 'feels' off like 'where did that come from'.
An external daytime communication avenue would explain my feeling, but the people in TSOs neighbourhood don't feel right.

It could also have been I was tired. I will see what happens when I poke around a bit.

Yeah if its multiball, rather lot of common tells go away. Scum can still however be faking it, as survival is stronger instinct in scum as there are fewer of them scum hunting has risks, if you personally start pinging on guys in the other scum team they may NK you as a seemingly dangerous townie. So scum in multiball (I hypothsise) still will play different, but it will be harder to find them but there will be more of them?
Also at least one multiball scum player wants to be the one scum under the radar player the other team cant find.

Not sure you thought deep enough.

Oh ok tbh Even after reading I still don't understand in depth how it applies to multiball But I'll take your word on it since fferys like a mentor to me.

[Garmr]

But I'll take your word on it since fferys like a mentor to me.

Err this makes no sense. I suggest you go back and think that thought again.

I talk about 1403 fferlyt trajectory in terms of failing to follow the recent thread, as a natural flow, (also as it wont have been clear so far) while TSO is in the center of that feel.
That has no (known) connection to multiball.

Once you brought up multiball, in 1410
I did also talk about multiball and say
"Yeah if its multiball, rather lot of common tells go away. Scum can still however be faking it, as survival is stronger instinct in scum as there are fewer of them scum hunting has risks, if you personally start pinging on guys in the other scum team they may NK you as a seemingly dangerous townie. So scum in multiball (I hypothsise) still will play different, but it will be harder to find them but there will be more of them?
Also at least one multiball scum player wants to be the one scum under the radar player the other team cant find."

That bit has no "fferlyt trajectory" in it

and finally even if it did appeal to your authority is bad logic.

This is getting weird again. What kind of weird, I don't know.
As I am not pushing this exchange in any useful direction (I think I am being responsive) I suggest we stop unless you are getting something out of it.

Your right it won't further the game state But I am interested in interacting with you, I find it easier to understand someone if I'm interacting with them but I guess that was a awkward attempt to start an interaction because to be honest I don't know what subject to start with and I been trying to think of something for a while. So I'm going to reach out to you for this.

[Garmr]

Your right it won't further the game state But I am interested in interacting with you, I find it easier to understand someone if I'm interacting with them but I guess that was a awkward attempt to start an interaction because to be honest I don't know what subject to start with and I been trying to think of something for a while. So I'm going to reach out to you for this.

That appeared to run up dead end. (no tendency to generate a reply)

Why are you "But I am interested in interacting with you,"?

Because I'm unsure of what to think of you at the moment and tbh your now one of the people pushing the game and the only one I'm not sure how to read. I feel like if I figure out where to place you I could get some clarity.

[Garmr]

Your right it won't further the game state But I am interested in interacting with you, I find it easier to understand someone if I'm interacting with them but I guess that was a awkward attempt to start an interaction because to be honest I don't know what subject to start with and I been trying to think of something for a while. So I'm going to reach out to you for this.

That appeared to run up dead end. (no tendency to generate a reply)

Why are you "But I am interested in interacting with you,"?

Because I'm unsure of what to think of you at the moment and tbh your now one of the people pushing the game and the only one I'm not sure how to read. I feel like if I figure out where to place you I could get some clarity.

So when you said "

Your right it won't further the game state

"
what did that mean?
Please try and make your answer make sense with the bold bit above

The talking about theory and stuff. It doesn't further the game state since it provides no information posts but it's a good at getting someones thought processes through no ones actually understood mine except ffery (mollies getting there.). It could also be used by scum to appear more townie so it's more a null tool you should use every once in a while.

Going to be honest about why you interest me at the moment. You post a lot but your take the long route to explain something it gets tedious sometimes and It makes me want to skim you which i know I shouldn't. I could see through when you were working with me on the annienen subject you were trying to get me to understand it and I thank you for that and I'll give you some townie points for that.

My advice to you would to be keep it short,understandable and to the point it's harder for the casual players or the players that are behind to read through.

quick thoughts on events.
Annienen still not as strong as a scum read as before but I prefer his lynch over a tso/thor lynch which I view as a tvt. I would also be up for a nerocain lynch and I don't like that gambit shit that good mornings pulling off it seems useless doesn't go anywhere and seems more like a excuse. I Don't like scriptian 1246 when he declare his not scum reading nero to hard for it but then back tracks 1248 by saying it was from town or scum when 1246 makes it seem like his leaning to a scum direction.

[Garmr]

I prefer his lynch over a tso/thor lynch which I view as a tvt

There's a TSO v. Thor thing going on?

I was mixing up pere with thor I am town reading pere as well. Sorry my bad.

[Garmr]

I prefer his lynch over a tso/thor lynch which I view as a tvt

There's a TSO v. Thor thing going on?

I was mixing up pere with thor I am town reading pere as well. Sorry my bad.

I'm currently intoxicated so sorry about spelling and grammar and shit just smashed a bottle jagermeister and starting on the wild turkey and honey lol.

[Garmr]

The talking about theory and stuff. It doesn't further the game state since it provides no information posts but it's a good at getting someones thought processes through no ones actually understood mine except ffery (mollies getting there.). It could also be used by scum to appear more townie so it's more a null tool you should use every once in a while.

Really? If you like fferlyts stuff then I would have thought.
if you find a good baseline for someone, and can then know what to expect and what not to expect, that is when changes in trajectory become useful for me.

What do you think of my trajectory? Also out of all the players who has the weirdest.

My advice to you would to be keep it short,understandable and to the point it's harder for the casual players or the players that are behind to read through.

Ta and at times I do that and at times I very specifically don't. and sometimes like now, I just do whatever
(A variety of people can RAGE all they like about how they don't want me to do that, but as their claimed right to RAGE and have first rate Tanties and ...
and that is just bleh for me. Thus as "Turn about is fair play", I am not sure I care all that much about what they want either. Horses for courses.)

and at other times I get busy IRL, and you get my native English esp grammar skills, and they have been definitively measured as bad the last time I was externally assessed.

You have better spelling and grammar skill than me lol.

quick thoughts on events.
Annienen still not as strong as a scum read as before but I prefer his lynch over a tso/thor lynch which I view as a tvt. I would also be up for a nerocain lynch and I don't like that gambit shit that good mornings pulling off it seems useless doesn't go anywhere and seems more like a excuse. I Don't like scriptian 1246 when he declare his not scum reading nero to hard for it but then back tracks 1248 by saying it was from town or scum when 1246 makes it seem like his leaning to a scum direction.

Sorry not noticed Thor vs TSO much. Largely I thought Thor had indicated that, TSO ought, you know, like actually answer the Goddam question.
I will discuss Aneninen with you, if I achieve clarity on TSOs claimed reasons.

I kinda screwed up who's who there I was just thinking about tso when typing that.

[Garmr]

@Boonskiies, 1402 – thanks for your another helpful post ^_^ /sarcasm

@Axle, can you explain what does Fferyllt Trajectory have to do with this game right now?

@Garmr. As far as I can remember, the backbone of your case was that I had attacked you so as to protect Boonskiies. But you didn't mention Boonskiies in 1426 amongst your scumreads. Why? (It's strange because I haven't liked his latest posts, they were infrequent, null and there were no scumhunting in them at all.) Also, f-ck grammar, start posting in Dutch! Dutch is cute. ^_^

@TSO, 1433 – neither was I. You have 2 votes or something, including mine.

Can someone (who votes for him) summarize the case against Scripten?
Also, Scripten, can you link a town and a scum game of yours?

I believe boons soft roleclaim as I don't see why scum would do it. I will agree through his done pretty much nothing all game.

[Garmr]

@Axle
There's a couple things about fferylt trajectory you should know.

It loses alot of it's umpph in multiscum games the verdicts still out if it even works. It's leaning to yes but in a way lesser degree.

It's contextual and doesn't apply to every situation.

Everyone is different thus everyone trajectories are different even if some are similar. You have to see what type of trajectories they take and this delves into meta.

[Garmr]

I don't think anyone in Axle-Anen-TSO is deliberately misrepping anyone else. Jury's still out on whether they're deliberately WORDS.

Hey there goodnight happy scumday

[Garmr]

We need mac in this game then we can have egg mac muffin :p

[Garmr]

@Axle do you have any scum reads other than tso? goodevening brought this up this question in 1521 and it looks like you might of missed it.

[Garmr]

@Pere and thor

I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.

[Garmr]

I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.

No face palm on you your just filling this thread with junk and it's not fucking productive and It's starting to tick me off.

[Garmr]

@Pere and thor

I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.

Each person focussed on certain aspects of my reads they did not like, and then we talked about it.

I've given my reads, not changed much. Look at my wagon, the reasons people are on it, and any back and forth between me and them (except Thor- which you've indicated you read).

Just so we know you DO understand, what is Thor's "case" on me?

I don't think you get to naked vote at this stage of the game - reads and thoughts please.

It's not naked, it's more an acceptance that Izraeil probably knows better than I at this point, and last time I thought they were scum, ignored them, and we lost.

Of course, an actual read will give me a better idea. Is there a reason you think he is particularly town?

It started because you sheeped Izareal right. The fact you pretty much started the game around 1:18 am my time in post 366 and then voted scrip in post

369

(damn she fine ) just a mere 30 mins latter means you probably just gave the 14 pages a quick read saw some one you thought was towny and sheeped there vote because you were lazy. It's not the best thing to do as town but it's understandable and not a big omg his scum thing.

[Garmr]

@Pere and thor

I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.

Each person focussed on certain aspects of my reads they did not like, and then we talked about it.

I've given my reads, not changed much. Look at my wagon, the reasons people are on it, and any back and forth between me and them (except Thor- which you've indicated you read).

Just so we know you DO understand, what is Thor's "case" on me?

I don't think you get to naked vote at this stage of the game - reads and thoughts please.

It's not naked, it's more an acceptance that Izraeil probably knows better than I at this point, and last time I thought they were scum, ignored them, and we lost.

Of course, an actual read will give me a better idea. Is there a reason you think he is particularly town?

It started because you sheeped Izareal right. The fact you pretty much started the game around 1:18 am my time in post 366 and then voted scrip in post

369

(damn she fine ) just a mere 30 mins latter means you probably just gave the 14 pages a quick read saw some one you thought was towny and sheeped there vote because you were lazy. It's not the best thing to do as town but it's understandable and not a big omg his scum thing.

lol

What about his current reasons?

Tbh I stopped reading them after I lost intreast so I lost track of them

[Garmr]

@Pere and thor

I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.

How could you be falling asleep with the argument when Thor created a wagon from it!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

The wagon is meh a few of my town reads are on it but some of the other players aren't the towniest bunch (scriptian,davesaz and muffin) Fuck tbh I would like to see muffin hang from a rope today or viged if we have one.

[Garmr]

Wait we only have 3 days left till dead fuck that went by fast.

A reminder that the deadline is essentially suspended until I find replacements.

-Aegor

[Garmr]

No face palm on you your just filling this thread with junk and it's not Smurfing productive and It's starting to tick me off.

1. I have actually not discussed the Pere case much with Pere - I *have* discussed it at length with people other than Pere.
2. I have addressed many other things in and amongst doing so.
3. I am keeping it in the conversation because I haven't managed L-1 yet. Oh, wow, look at the days left and the wagon composition - it's almost like we should get an L-1 somewhere.

What do you think I need to comment on that I haven't? Or is this just an empty complaint of "boo-hoo, people are talking and it makes things hard for me!"
Because I have to tell you, I am not particularly sold by that as an issue.
You know what the issue is?
That people aren't pushing a wagon to L-1.
That's why the game is going long and stupid.
Not that two people are talking somewhat whilst one half of the equation you're complaining about is amongst the game's serial lursacks.
.

Ok I acknowledge you have being doing other things with other people but the focus on pere is stifling so more a complaint as your arguments haven't been the strongest.

To be fair I'm town reading pere and your sitting on the fine line between town and null and I'd rather lynch my scum reads. Is there any other person you find is scummy because there's 3 types of people at the moment people who think the pere vote is weaksauce (I'm in this camp),Pere is scummy and lurkers/people that have ignored it.

What other wagons would you like to be seen pushed to L-1 Because at the moment the top 2 wagons aren't ones I like and people aren't jumping on the annienen wagon.

[Garmr]

I have feeling that knife cuts both ways.
Thor didn't seriously entertain the idea that PereV, might just believe that multiball was not likely and hence assuming it was a TMI thing. At least enough to have towny poke to see what happens.

Indeed why then neither of them called the other out for that.
I almost get the impression they are both scum, or they are both town and there is something about how they play mafia I don't get.

I am kinda leaning towards the latter, and want to lynch TSO, because I have no cognitive dissonance there that guy is not playing on the same team as me. .

You have the similar thoughts on the pere/thor subject as me, But I don't see tso as scum and you seem to feel similar about Annienen. So how about we start a new wagon. Maybe a muffin wagon since after Isoing him and seeing the way he act around pere while buddying up to thor is scummish to me or a nerocain,scriptian and davesaz wagons are pretty good to or if you have changed your mind about Annienen there's plenty of room there.

[Garmr]

But I don't see tso as scum

So you can explain how it is plausible he has his read on Aneninen?

because I also have similar problem with your read on Aneninen, but find TSO scummier, so I started with him.

Bang this just hit me.

I have explained my reasons even through it started with a misunderstanding. What I find wrong is how your attacking the Aneninen, wagon and trying to disassemble it with out once saying Aneninen, is town. Sure you said here are some of annienens town games but not even once in the slightest have you said Aneninen to say what you think his alignment is Hell. When you presented Aneninen, town game to me you didn't even say this is why Aneninen, is town/scum because of this game and that one match up(they don't). Your like here's some Aneninen games I can't be bothered pointing out the points to show why they can be referenced with this game.You been passively defending annienen as well.

I think you did this subconsciously as he is either your scum buddy or your trying to buddy him. Your also reluctant to share your reads other than tso and you been playing a mediator role the whole game when it doesn't involve a scum read like you want to get in on the action yet not get to heavily involved.

come on people read through his iso Aneninen is mentioned over 100 times but not his alinement.

UNVOTE: Aneninen
VOTE: Axlegreaser

[Garmr]

Ok I acknowledge you have being doing other things with other people but the focus on pere is stifling so more a complaint as your arguments haven't been the strongest.

Strongest compared to what?
I certainly think they're at least as strong as any other case presented in this game. I personally think they are stronger, natch, but I'd be fascinated to see what you would call stronger.

I also do have other people I'd be willing to lynch.
However, as noted, my prime lynch option is the top wagon. I'm not sure why everyone keeps expecting me to compromise at this stage.
That's not how it works.

Your opening reason to vote him was weak that has probably lessened the impact of your other cases even some are rational. I would call my point on axles hesitance to say Aneninen alignment,including the passive defense with the meta thing with out explaining what we should be looking at and the (lack of/resilience to express) reads a stronger case than peres.

Can I ask what you think of the people on the pere wagon other than yourself.

[Garmr]

What I find wrong is how your attacking the Aneninen, wagon and trying to disassemble it with out once saying Aneninen, is town.

And what is wrong with that?

If Aneninen is scum then other scum may have decide to bus him. There is no requirement for me to believe Anenne is scum to have trouble with understanding the veracity of the cases against him.

wow what OMGUS.

True if he is scum other scum may bust him but you have failed to even mention your thoughts on Annenne while pushing the fact constantly he may be town like post 442# post 996# while post 1062 attacks tso for why those post can't come from a town annienen. But yet you yourself don't mention what alignment he may be or thoughts on him why?

All I am doing is flagging that I also want to examine your reasons.

and nope,

I very purposefully did not do the leg work of examining those games

,that I pointed out to you,
but i do want to be sure that your reasons for voting him, when I examine them, have to make sense in light of that game.

wtf your saying you basically saying you were interested in annienens wagon so

You were trying to get me to do your meta reads for you with out EVEN bothering to do some yourself to make sure I wasn't misrepresenting him.

That's scummy as fuck epically in a multi scum game (if it is multiscum). It shows you don't want to risk your neck in the night phase.

I think you did this subconsciously as he is either your scum buddy or your trying to buddy him

This is bullshit. My interaction with you,
where I made sure I made simple post (no excuse not to read it)
here is the post.

@GARMR

A simple question.
have you read any of Aneninen's previous games?

While the earliest games are the oldest they do show best where his approach to play comes from. newbie 1513.

not sure everyone will notice but that is clearly a deliberate post.

it in no way defends Aneninen, but it does make sure ignorance is not a defence.

The last sentence is even ahelpful suggstion that the best way to come to an accurate read is to examine that old game, as it shows IMO most clearly where his play has evolved from.

That was about the towniest post I made in the whole game.

You been passively defending annienen from me and tso with out saying a read all game. You can't deny that. Btw that's not a Towny post for the reasons above it's and if that's your towniest post you need to be hung today.

I have explained my reasons even through it started with a misunderstanding.

and yes the fact that you have reasons in the thread is the reason I started by trying to prose TSOs reasons out of him.

I don't know what will happen when I discuss your reasons with you, it may be that they appear to make sense to you.
I do know not all your previous reasons are current.
Some time ago, you said
"I don't like the way Aneninen handled the way I pushed on boonskies by trying to disprove my points yet being unable to, ending up saying I don't agree with you. It just felt like a failed chainsaw attempt for boon."

as you subsequently unvoted boon, I believe you must no longer believe it was a failed chainsaw.

Also people dont 'disprove' cases they present you reasoning that you either accept or reject. Thor has for instance failed to provide you sufficient reasons to vote PereV, whom I believe you strongly town read.

So could you identify which posts hold your current reasoning that Aneninen is scum.

Like i said my scum read wasn't as strong and has fallen to null scum but this makes me think you haven't read my 1046 spoiler which gives a giant ass case on Annes 1003 and the follow up response to it 1050. I know all my previous aren't current so I'm having more and more doubt about him being scum.

I rarely say this and when I do the persons always been scum you have triggered that feeling.

[Garmr]

@^: TSO is not likely to flip, much less so to flip Scum.

ANYWAY.

I REALLY WANT A VOTECOUNT OMG

Players who are Town: GrayFoxxx, Garmr, TSO, Tier
Players who are not Town: Thor, Fonz
Players who may be Town: Cho, dave, Flubbernugget, Pere, Scripten
Players who may not be Town: Aeronaut, Axle, Anen, Muffin, Nero
Players who may or may not be Town: Boonskiies, Egg, hephaestus, Izariael

If you'd like an explanation of one of these and I haven't already given it, you're welcome to ask.

I got a question.
Would you like to jump on the axle wagon with me?

[Garmr]

Oh no garmr caught me what do I do.

[Garmr]

Why does this make an axlegreaser vote more palatable to you than an aneninen vote? It seems to me this ought to reinforce your scum read on aneninen the scum bro, should it not?

A axle lynch is more telling at this point. His the one that doesn't want to mention what he think of annienen his the one avoiding the subject. Look at the recent stuff his been posting that's not town.

[Garmr]

True if he is scum other scum may bust him but you have failed to even mention your thoughts on Annenne while pushing the fact constantly he may be town like post 442# post 996# while post 1062 attacks tso for why those post can't come from a town annienen. But yet you yourself don't mention what alignment he may be or thoughts on him why?

442 is not my post . Clarify (hint type 442 highlight it, press post button at the top of the editor. voila a link you can check)

post 996# not my post
while post 1062 yep that pone is mine. it is being responsive to TSO simply not even attempting to answer my question about Aneninen, TSOs supposed top scum read.)

because the person most likely to be scum was TSO.

because i was attempting to find put if TSO had a genuine read on Aneninen.

because if TSO is scum the read is faked about a scum mate or faked about a townie, thus Aneninens alignment is moot.

because if TSO is town his read is correct about scum and i should be on the wagon too, or wrong about Aneninen and simply mistaken.

At no point is Aneninens alignment relevant to the question I am seeking answers too.

So, I didnt comment on things that are not relevant to TSOs alignment...

because I wanted to work out TSOs alignment

So what your basically saying is your focusing on tso so that you don't have to try and read other players because tso is the most important thing k?

Why does this make an axlegreaser vote more palatable to you than an aneninen vote? It seems to me this ought to reinforce your scum read on aneninen the scum bro, should it not?

A axle lynch is more telling at this point. His the one that doesn't want to mention what he think of annienen his the one avoiding the subject. Look at the recent stuff his been posting that's not town.

So explain what about it is not town.
Explain what lynching me would tell you and why.

your kidding right? Here some examples not doing you own scum hunting,being secretive about your reads,when other people get into arguments you join in but passively being careful not say anything that would indicate you prefer one side of the other.

Lynch you because your not town would show interactions because once this subject was brought up people have been flocking to it and reacting in different ways. So basically just seeing the connections you made with people.

wtf your saying you basically saying you were interested in annienens wagon so You were trying to get me to do your meta reads for you with out EVEN bothering to do some yourself to make sure I wasn't misrepresenting him. That's scummy as fuck epically in a multi scum game (if it is multiscum). It shows you don't want to risk your neck in the night phase.

Bullshit.
I had read Anenenien games some time ago.
broadly speaking his play was in line with what i expected. (except I thought improved)

Your reads if they were based on ignorance of how he played in the past, would be very different to if you had seen how he played. Also

I removed that unknown by being sure you had seen his previous games.
This lets me get a better more accurate read on you.

If you are town the response is, thank you Axle for not just railroading me by ambushing me with stuff I(Garmr) didn't know.
Trying to get an accurate read by removing unknowns as i did is towny (tick),

If you are scum, then .... go on reacting really badly to finding out someone has been checking your veracity.

@GARMR

A simple question.
have you read any of Aneninen's previous games?

While the earliest games are the oldest they do show best where his approach to play comes from. newbie 1513.

and nope,

I very purposefully did not do the leg work of examining those games ,that I pointed out to you,

but i do want to be sure that your reasons for voting him, when I examine them, have to make sense in light of that game.

One of these statements is not, not like the other one of these statements just doesn't belong. One of these statements looks like a real slip of truth can you guess.

You been passively defending annienen from me and tso with out saying a read all game. You can't deny that.

Bullshit. Watch me.

If (you are both town) and your or TSO's case holds water, then when I quiz you about the strength and basis of your reads. if they actually stand scrutiny, then
1 I vote your wagon. (BTW that how wagons you actually want pushed get lynched)
2 Other people can watch my examination and be persuaded
3 That I examine your reads and find out they are valid gives you good actual real townie points.

on the other hand if you are scum, me asking questions is something to worry about. Keep worrying.

Indeed as I have been so explicit, that I question the first the existence, then the accuracy and validity of TSOs reasons, then that as explained has little impact on whether you can lynch Aneninen if your reasons are valid.

Also often the best way to defend a towny, is to not defend them.
If Anenenien is town, the best way for me to defend him is to not defend him but let him show his towniness for himself.


However if the guy pursuing him is scum, then checking he has real reasons is a perfectly valid thing to do.

Thor (assuming PereV will flip scum) is entirely within his rights and good towny play to be looking on the supporters of his own wagon to look for which ones might be bussing.
Lynching scum today is good, lynching them today and tomorrow is better.

Ohhhh I get what your saying your not defending anne you were looking at if the wagon would get you into trouble and picking a target who to focus so you wouldn't have to give any reads. You got me your right your not defending annienen you didn't even care you were just looking for a tunnel.

ok got yah

[Garmr]

#1713 is you talking a lot of words but saying precious little.

this is you

that's a shit question which serves no purpose.

flinging shit around in your cage

as opposed to answering any actual questions such as

@TSO
show me some of these plenty of scummy posts that Aneninen made.

you are voting a player with no intention of getting him lynched and no reason stated in the thread....

and then have the god-dam gall to bitch about anything or anyone?

I am beginning to understand Aneninens pigeon poop posts more and more. (@thread: Yeah it wont be an enduring trend with me)

Ironically this picture is how I feel about the post it's in.

[Garmr]

Ironically this picture is how I feel about the post it's in.

sorry
he says somethings shit without reason,
his actual evaluation that its shit is presumably based on he doesn´t understand why i want to know
and has assumed a priori anything he doesn´t understand is shit....
and I am the monkey?

I point out the game relvant fact of him not answering questions about the game

and I am mindlessly flinging shit?

ur funny.

He said the question itself was bad which it was just like how i think your meta read escapade was bad and scummy. No it's not that he doesn't understand it's the fact it's town wouldn't have a clue because unless they have a role which wouldn't even be in a standard game they would not have any information to tell them other wise and they'll think it's a odd question. While scum would lie and say they don't know, the best answer is the same for both alignments that's why it's bad question.

@garmr why do you think axle is shit slinging?

I was referring to the fact that tso accused axle of shit flinging which he didn't deny.

Axle literally keeps throwing shit no matter what I do,

The one thing you have not done yet is show the plenty of posts that show Aneninen to be scummy.
I asked for them a very long time ago. As you still have not provided them I conclude they do not exist.

I'm more concerned condescending/aggressive tones to people that oppose his views even if it's just criticism that his picked up recently when his come under fire. It's not shit slinging but it's something to note.

[Garmr]

Nero cain I pretty much don't like doing meta cases because I suck with them. I'm saying your objective looks scum orientated and you provide no real content. I'm accusing you of forcing yourself into arguments to look town,Using cases with role pms and additional information that town don't have so people can't refute them so you can find a reason to vote them, while also providing little content as possible on the current game state. If your saying your meta is your defense then you can go fuck yourself.

Can you give me an example of me using additional info that town doesn't have?

I've given my reads and commented on posts that I felt needed to be commented on. I've commented on the PV/Thor slap fight (which has dominated the day up until this point.) What do you feel that I need to comment on and talk about?

I also said nothing about my defense being meta....

You misread the post a bit my fault for the wording. I meant you used accusation which town couldn't answer because they don't posses that knowledge.
when i say you provide no real content i talk about your fluff to read/push ratio is really off out of 35 post I would consider only 3-4 had content or a push but I will admit you really have took it up a notch lately.

and I know you didn't say anything about meta being a defense it was more a I don't want to hear that from you because I would tear my hair out.

[Garmr]

ok what accusation did I make that town couldn't answer?

I currently have 86 posts. At the time of your post I had 83. If you felt like my first 35 lacked content but my next 48 had more content why would you fuss about my first 35?

I thought you read my anwser and would click but. Your 1179 and the discussion that followed it. I don't know what information scum would know
Recently means after I was using the first 35 as an example. but out of you 83 I would say 20-25 would be relevant so basically 1/4.

[Garmr]

Your 1179 and the discussion that followed it. I don't know what information scum would know

Based on the size of their team scum already have a pretty good idea if a game is mb or not. This is not an advanced concept and it feels dishonest coming from a player with a years worth of experience.

This concept is new to me I started a year ago like you said and was banned for more than half it and the mafia i was on (pokemon online) had every role listed it was a open set up. I still disagree with this concept as I listed an example a scum team legit thought i was scum in another game and the fact you contradict yourself

I guess I just don't see the link between the size of the scumteam and whether or not the game has multiple scumteams. (Or are we including SKs in that definition?) Or are there other aspects I'm missing?

multiball is traditionally 2 mafia teams and that's the context that I've been using it in. Its a 21 player game and there's only going to be like 5 or 6 scum max. If its a 4 or 5 player team then you know there's not going to be another. If its 2 then you know there's going to be another.

3, maybe.

This is very basic game logic and I'm not sure this is a scum whine or a new player just being new and not understanding.

Which gets me curious why your so convinced that scums knows if it's multiball or not when you brought up the possibility it's not?

[Garmr]

not really a contradiction: maybe I misspoke a lil;

like if scum is 4 or 5 then its to big for a 2nd team. If its a 2 man team (mods are doing all kinds of big team v. little team these days.) then they know its to small. If its a 3 team then there could realistically be a mirrored team or a smaller 2 man team.

ok yeah, maybe they don't

know

, my point still stands though: scum already have a p good idea of the game state based on team size.

So that's why I didn't really like your whining about Boons "softclaim" 'cause is not like its giving the scum info they didn't already have.

Wait you thought I was whining about that? God your dense I was whining about the fact boon softclaimed in the first place. I was using the example that the information about it being multi scum would of been found out the next day so the information was not needed.

[Garmr]

not really 'cause two kills=//=knowing weather the second kill is from an sk or a 2nd mafia team. Even one kill doesn't prove anything 'cause roles n jazz.

Point taken but was it really worth outing a role?

[Garmr]

@Garmmr: I've already checked but apart from the part that "I'm the close 2nd" and the part where I questioned your Boonskiies vote I have found nothing.

Tomorrow I may have more time. I'll check the posts between Thor and PeregrineV again because it's possible that I missed things because of the sheer size and amount of the posts.

@Cho: WTF? Yet another vote with no additional content?

At this point I must tell you the following: If I got lynched Today you all should examine these votes. It's strongly possible that the scums are between these votes because they want to build a counter-wagon quickly.

In other words: compare the PeregrineV wagon and my one. On PeregrineV there were much content written. On me, almost nothing.

finally I don't like the way Aneninen handled the way I pushed on boonskies by trying to disprove my points yet being unable to, ending up saying I don't agree with you. It just felt like a failed chainsaw attempt for boon.

Basically What I'm saying is you tried to defend against my points with out having a valid counter points in fact you actually strengthened my points in some parts and that comes off as scummy.

can you explain how him strengthening your argument has scum motivation?

Sure if his arguing against my points and someone strengthens my points instead it shows he/she didn't think it through and was saying it on a whim and most likley in this case to try and dismantle the case I made. I would would of been fine if it was legit critismn but none of it was.

[Garmr]

@Garmmr: I've already checked but apart from the part that "I'm the close 2nd" and the part where I questioned your Boonskiies vote I have found nothing.

Tomorrow I may have more time. I'll check the posts between Thor and PeregrineV again because it's possible that I missed things because of the sheer size and amount of the posts.

@Cho: WTF? Yet another vote with no additional content?

At this point I must tell you the following: If I got lynched Today you all should examine these votes. It's strongly possible that the scums are between these votes because they want to build a counter-wagon quickly.

In other words: compare the PeregrineV wagon and my one. On PeregrineV there were much content written. On me, almost nothing.

finally I don't like the way Aneninen handled the way I pushed on boonskies by trying to disprove my points yet being unable to, ending up saying I don't agree with you. It just felt like a failed chainsaw attempt for boon.

Basically What I'm saying is you tried to defend against my points with out having a valid counter points in fact you actually strengthened my points in some parts and that comes off as scummy.

can you explain how him strengthening your argument has scum motivation?

Sure if his arguing against my points and someone strengthens my points instead it shows he/she didn't think it through and was saying it on a whim and most likley in this case to try and dismantle the case I made. I would would of been fine if it was legit critismn but none of it was.

So your original post claimed Aneninen chainsawed for Boonskies without really thinking it through on a whim?
In my experience scum don't act on a whim.

I am fairly sure it (I am referring to 420 please check i am talking about the same criticism you are)
was all legit criticism from Aneninens point of view.

Boonskies was the fact he needed to clarify that those were rvs votes.¹ No one really asked him for it and it seems odd as town why you feel the need to say hey this is a rvs vote. He really hasn't done anything to strike me as town either.² Also he dodged the csereo subject and didn't give his thoughts on it which made me feel uncomfortable.³

(1) Boonskiies was just being Boonskiies. I can tell you I've seen that. Even if you haven't come across with him, why is it a scumtell?
(2) So? Hasn't done anything to strike me as town either? This description fits quite a lot of people here.
(3) He has dodged almost every subject so far.

I'm not saying that he's town. He may be scum. But, NOT because of your reasons, Gammrnmhrm.

Point 2
is quite valid criticism. he is no more scummy than anyone else due to that.

Point 1
as i have argued several times you need to judge people against their own meta, capabilities, etc.
The argument Boonskies is boonskies is potentially valid. True you need to counter or question whether or not that is typical of town boonskies, but its not claim you can reject out of hand.
(I have less experience reading games that boonskie played than i think Aneninen has, but as said to reject it you need to show that is scum.Boonskies and that town.Boonskies is not usually that bad.)

Point 3
Same as above. Boonskies indeed plays VI. As I believe Thor (932 937) has pointed out (I think implied) that is sufficient reason to lynch him D1, if you have no better options.

I feel like your ignoring the answers I gave to and
1yes you can argue that but ane didn't show why a town boon skies would be conscious us of his own rvs posts so the whole that's just boon being boon is irrelevant.

2.like I said before if he had no redeeming qualities at the time so it strengthens the read but I guess this could be valid critismn

3.So having a history of dodging subjects makes you town? Notice how ane is referring to this game only why would would you even bring up meta.

Your above post makes me feel you just skimmed isos instead of reading it in context.

[Garmr]

Sorry about the quote walls I'm using a tablet for today.

[Garmr]

@Garmr - Boon just being boon is completely relevant. I literally type whatever comes to my mind and don't really ever backspace. Plus, I'm basically just skimming through this thread.

Tbh I could accept this boon does as the boon do if someone could put it into context and that's what I didn't like about ane approach.

[Garmr]

so far he is getting away with it, and youre town reading him for it? (as its got no percentage except you town reading him for it?)

You agree that boonskies is being boonskies right?

[Garmr]

so far he is getting away with it, and youre town reading him for it? (as its got no percentage except you town reading him for it?)

You agree that boonskies is being boonskies right?

That phrase came up in this context

Boonskies was the fact he needed to clarify that those were rvs votes.¹ No one really asked him for it and it seems odd as town why you feel the need to say hey this is a rvs vote.

(1) Boonskiies was just being Boonskiies. I can tell you I've seen that. Even if you haven't come across with him, why is it a scumtell?

On that occasion, you replied

1.I'm not the only one who thought that was scummy (thor did) and how is that even a defence boon skies is boon skies. Like i said why would town need to clarify themselves.

and its true that, feeling the need to over explain yourself at that stage of the game can be a scum tell.
however "Boonkies is Boonskies is a short hand way to tell you that with respect to how Boonskies plays that was not all that remarkable.

That is my view even if Boonskies has never felt the need to say that before!!!!
Why?
Context, at post 130, Csaero had been taking all sorts of things 35 and treating them disproportionately seriously.
I can imagine even a town Boonksie thinking nope, "As my second vote had reason, I had better inb4 someone takes it wrong"

at the very least it is an actual argument by Aneninen, it may be wrong, but its not dismissable out of hand.

I am not in anyway keen to lynch Boonskie today.

What exactly are you asking me to agree to? You seem to be fishing for an open ended agreement, that I absolutely read Boonskie is Boonskie.
Indeed the D1 soft claim is I think a bit weird(not seen before)(new Boonskie) but I have no intention of talking about it today.

I didn't want a long answer in that way I wanted a yes or no but I will take this as a yes.

Because Tso is being Tso.

[Garmr]

Because Tso is being Tso.

Do you have specific game to refer me to that will make your point clear? (so that I can see it for myself)

I expect that to be way harder thing to do as TSO is more experienced player with larger palette of previous play styles as town or scum.

Also I do argue he is better lynch that PereV, or Thor, who I have said I dont want to lynch D1.

This for instance is self described on wiki "Bah. I played fucking shit here."
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=29163
and he does not seem to do the anti town stuff I am talking about there.

Wait you ask me for examples as why tso is being tso but it's ok that annienen didn't provide an example how boon is self conscious as town and your fine with that? (even through i do think his town now.) That's kinda bs and hypo fucking critical. I'm going to show you a game where tso is acting similarly to what he is now except he used no hard cases at all, mini 1510 . He also got into one of his pushes on majiffy like he did with ane this game and it lasted till a majjify lynch if i remember correctly.

This game also shows my 2nd scum tick which i only had 4 times before this game
1.my first normal with banksy flareon
2.that game on grimgrove (tso counter pushed me on this one day 1 i so could of got him lynched but then again i fucked up end game.),
3.Regefan in mafia in space(ffery told me to shut up about regefan because she was in a foul mood and he was her number 1 town read I was right she was wrong instinct vs theory)
and 4. a game with Beelzebub in georgetown(yuck belzefail).

Axle you are my 5th to trigger this instinct in a strong enough manner.

[Garmr]

@axle am writing another one but I linked the wrong thing thats mini 1516 but I meant 1510

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=32209

[Garmr]

So are you settling your count at '4'?

Because the discussion was who could find more.
I, personally, just intend to use whatever justification you use to trawl through TSO's ISO, but I bet I can do better than 4 - especially with intense tells like 'remembers stuff posted in the past'.

I'm willing to bet this is 5 off the bat but I've only been in 14 games I haven't completed all of them due to the ban and the fact i used to replace alot into games. But like I said it's not a tell thing it's a instinct there's no logic behind a instinct(Not going to say my case case no logic because it does but that's separate in my eyes) I'm just noting I had it for bragging rights at the end of the game if(90%) he flips scum. Also there has only ever been one game as town where I didn't have scum in my scum pile for most of the game. I was a miserable failure that game (on the boat). But when i talk strong instinct I mean a screaming sound.

[Garmr]

That's kinda bs and hypo fucking critical.

No its not, and this push of your is really very lame, as described the situation are different.

No there fucking not and that's what ticks me off.

[Garmr]

That's kinda bs and hypo fucking critical.

No its not, and this push of your is really very lame, as described the situation are different.

No there fucking not and that's what ticks me off.

did you read 1862 it explains how they are different.

1862 doesn't exist unless its the one tso went oh god not that game which he was lurking in (his not lurking here)? Games I looked at were 536 and 545 which were the only other scum games I could fine because tso laid them out in the game he lurked (I fucking hate doing meta so I hate you so much) and his completely different from here. In those games he didn't focus on a player he keeped his options open he didn't get into giant arguments and he pulled away if one was coming and let town destroy themselves. Those 2 games and this game are totally different from this one.


@ane because some person cough axle brought it up earlier to defend your criticism and he seems to be dragging it out. It's me trying to explain my thought process's at the time and trying to explain what i thought/think yours were.

[Garmr]

@axle oh well the misunderstanding caused me to meta tso which is a positive thing. I did read it but thought a town annenian would back up his reasoning when i said boon is just boon is not an excuse. I felt you held a double standard to something you support and which you don't.

[Garmr]

@axle oh well the misunderstanding caused me to meta tso which is a positive thing. I did read it but thought a town annenian would back up his reasoning when i said boon is just boon is not an excuse. I felt you held a double standard to something you support and which you don't.

What kind of explanation did you want for "Boonskiies is Boonskiies" in that moment? He hardly posted anything. Should I have linked the game we were link? If so, I could still do it.

He's passively scumhunting.

Can you define that concept for me?

A example of town boon skies being conscious of his plays in a past game would of been nice.

[Garmr]

@TSO

There are limited players available to snag for a wagon since this game is a total lurkfest.
Could each of you tell me - in a sentence or two - why you do not support the Pere wagon (and, to stave off 20 questions, if your answer is 'I think Pere is town' my immediate followup question will be 'why do you think this?' so feel free to skip to that answer to speed things along).

His a town read of mine but to anwsers the follow up questions mind if anwser in three sentences ?

He shared a similar thought process earlier in the game with me on reads I said and some reads I didn't. This is how he has behaved in pretty much all the games his been in with me except his not scum reading me for a change lol. Finally I don't like some of the players on the pere wagon.

[Garmr]

@Garmr - have you ever played with scum Pere?

Also, what players on his wagon do you dislike and why?

Finally, you say you liked his thought process earlier...do you still like it now?

1. nope not that i can remember

2A.Muffin-I can see him buddying script a bit and I don't know if anyone's used this as a scum tell but he seems to be leeching you. If a strong player is pushing a wagon just jump on and throw down a few points and don't provide anything to really push it. I think the closet thing to a push is saying come join the wagon and oh look at the history of events in the way I paint it (521)

2B.Scriptian-The town cred thing in a lesser extent and the jump onto the pere wagon in a bigger extent. It didn't feel natural to me.

OrNot2B.Davey- quotes gm says she feels towny and doesn't give a reason why those quotes feel towny. Plays a devil adovocate like role in the thors and pere argument and then gives a meh reason to vote pere (667.

I originally disliked more players on the wagon but I been rethinking them.

3 they were similar at the start (not the same) but they steered into different directions. I don't agree with some of his reads/reactions but I can see how he got there with the way he thinks.

[Garmr]

More examples of Dave saying how much he loves gm and hugging up to her. Why don't you just marry her dave?

[Garmr]

More examples of Dave saying how much he loves gm and hugging up to her. Why don't you just marry her dave?

Try reading 1632 and 1803. I'm following a line of questioning here. It's subtle, but you have to be subtle with certain targets.

I didn't see those ones but after isoing you and searching goodmorning I just noticed you seemed to start getting suspicious of her around 1219. That changes things a little.

[Garmr]

1. nope not that i can remember

Does that concern you in an attempt to comment that his play here looks townish? You appear to have no frame of reference, yeah?

2A.Muffin-I can see him buddying script a bit and I don't know if anyone's used this as a scum tell but he seems to be leeching you. If a strong player is pushing a wagon just jump on and throw down a few points and don't provide anything to really push it. I think the closet thing to a push is saying come join the wagon and oh look at the history of events in the way I paint it (521)

2B.Scriptian-The town cred thing in a lesser extent and the jump onto the pere wagon in a bigger extent. It didn't feel natural to me.

OrNot2B.Davey- quotes gm says she feels towny and doesn't give a reason why those quotes feel towny. Plays a devil adovocate like role in the thors and pere argument and then gives a meh reason to vote pere (667.

I originally disliked more players on the wagon but I been rethinking them.

I will point out, firstly, your point on Dave is weak considering Dave's playstyle. Seriously, go do research and come back and talk to me on that one. Also, Dave in isolation is reading really townish to me right now, you're not getting any of that?

I also don't see it on Muffin unless he's super buddying me - because he did choose to go into that dustup with GM about me also, which, at least suggests he's willing to take a lead stance on a case if he's so inclined even if he's scum in this game.

I mildly see the point on Script - but, meh, I townread him myself, and even if you don't 1-2 questionable votes hardly a bad wagon makes at this wagon size.

3 they were similar at the start (not the same) but they steered into different directions. I don't agree with some of his reads/reactions but I can see how he got there with the way he thinks.

This is frustratingly vague.
I would actually say in the early game he was doing almost anything *but* offering reads and thoughts.
I would also say that, since moving away from me, he hasn't done anything either.
In fact - besies his press on me, i would dare say his ISO barely has anything one could call scumhunting in it.
And I have people calling him town or agreeing with his thoughts.

Do you think I'm crazy to have those beliefs? Like, specifically, that besides comments about me Pere has done nothing this game?

1. Not really

2. Your original vote on pere was weaksauce -_- annoyance out the way

dave-I misread the whole goodmorning thing as well which was a bigger factor as why I scum read him but you have to admit the way he handled you and pere was a bad jump onto it. After he does a lot of theory talk about if pere is scum that there must be scum in the neighborhoods goes in depth about it. That really isn't solid reasoning.

script-was my weaker reads of the three and the only one you agreed slightly intreasting.

muffin- I stick to my points on this and that dustop that involves "explain your read,Is that the best,there's a better vote if that's all,link some some shit" yep real riviting stuff from muffin.

3.
From my view point his got caught up with your wall. But the fact his recent post his brought up egg,muffin and scriptian so it's not all about you and I think his done a little. But the way you act around him got him caught up on you not sure if you realize you have that effect sometimes (remember you and slandaar in the game we were a scum team you didn't even mean for that wall to happen.)







Even through I think pere is town there is one post that worries me through is the sk talk. Originally he used it as way to argue against your multi scum thing which I was fine with but I saw this post.

@PereV

Hi.

It is important you read the words that I say in this post and respond to this post.
Do not try and explain your case/points against Thor to me, I read that already.

Your are a towny, you are trying to work the game out

(

or pretending to

)
(

ooo spooky colours

)

What is your current belief in how likely this game is to be multiball?
Why?

I don't think it's 2 scumteams.
I think there is an SK.

It became a way to debate your statistic into a surefire thing. I don't understand this transtion.

[Garmr]

Fucking fine.

Vote: PeregrineV

If that'll get you off my fucking back, great.

How to shatter a town read by tso.

[Garmr]

dave-I misread the whole goodmorning thing as well which was a bigger factor as why I scum read him but you have to admit the way he handled you and pere was a bad jump onto it. After he does a lot of theory talk about if pere is scum that there must be scum in the neighborhoods goes in depth about it. That really isn't solid reasoning.

Again - do you exect more from Davetown? Because if you don't, all you're really managing to say here is 'scumhunting looks weak' well...does Dave scumhunt strongly in your experience?
Look at what he's saying and doing, the people he's talking to and what he's saying. He is coming across as very honest to me right now and your raised issue with him is, basically, sloppy wagon transition...which even i it is a scumtell is more of a poor play tell, and at that point you should be assessing him as a newer player anyway in which case the case becomes weaker unless you know him to be better than this.
Do you?

script-was my weaker reads of the three and the only one you agreed slightly intreasting.

Actually no it's not unless you take it somewhere.

muffin- I stick to my points on this and that dustop that involves "explain your read,Is that the best,there's a better vote if that's all,link some some shit" yep real riviting stuff from muffin.

Do you not think I showed him having willingness to do original attacks?
If I did - then why is him sheeping me proof of cowardly scum - which is your currently advanced case?

Let simplify this I haven't looked into daves meta I barely do that unless asked to and no I don't know him. Script well I got nothing why it's interesting I just thought it was interesting. I don't see your point on muffin how does sheeping you and throwing post that don't advance the case a town action.

3.
From my view point his got caught up with your wall. But the fact his recent post his brought up egg,muffin and scriptian so it's not all about you and I think his done a little. But the way you act around him got him caught up on you not sure if you realize you have that effect sometimes (remember you and slandaar in the game we were a scum team you didn't even mean for that wall to happen.)

You're saying a lot of words here and I'm not really buying it.
Sure, I will agree that Pere (and myself) are prone to wall wars.
That said, *during* the wall wars I was able to still discuss other people and events, Pere was not.
Prior to the wall war I was able to discuss other people and events, and Pere said basically nothing.
After the wall war...well, heck, Pere has basically lurked out and cast an empty vote and you're even mentioning that as though he's somehow discussed Scripten - no, he hasn't. Why do you think he has?

I don't think any of this weakens my point that he appears to not be scumhunting.
Can you clarify why you think I'm wrong here?

It became a way to debate your statistic into a surefire thing. I don't understand this transtion.

I don't see how this matters one way or the other, myself.

meh it may be weird filter but that ticks way more than the reason you gave and it's still not enough that i would consider him scum.

In all honesty I can't clarify were your wrong. I was under the impression he did but after going through his iso he really only talked to them about the case between you and him.

I'm going to be honest thor from your latest post I feel like your tying to control me and I don't like that. Unlike tso I'm not so easily bullied into things.

But guess what there's finally a wagon I'm happy that's picking up

UNVOTE: axle
VOTE: aneninen

[Garmr]

@axle oh well the misunderstanding caused me to meta tso which is a positive thing.

If TSO is “so easily bullied into things.”

Unlike tso I'm not so easily bullied into things.

What did this post mean and why?

Fucking fine.

Vote: PeregrineV

If that'll get you off my fucking back, great.

How to shatter a town read by tso.

It means the fact that tso gave in ruined my image of him. I had a image that tso took no shit and stood for what he believed in like me but the fact he caved into thor so easily ruined that image of him.

[Garmr]

Let simplify this I haven't looked into daves meta I barely do that unless asked to and no I don't know him. Script well I got nothing why it's interesting I just thought it was interesting. I don't see your point on muffin how does sheeping you and throwing post that don't advance the case a town action.

Well, from someone who has played with Dave before - I do not find his current play to suggest an intentional attempt to dumb down and sheep - feel free to, y'know, go get your own opinion when tossing around issues about someone.

The point about Muffin is that I showed him attacking.
Your point on Muffin is that he is scum sheeping to lay under the radar.
I am suggesting the two happenings do not fully line up - which brings into question the validity of your case for him to be questionable for the given sheep.

In all honesty I can't clarify were your wrong. I was under the impression he did but after going through his iso he really only talked to them about the case between you and him.

I'm going to be honest thor from your latest post I feel like your tying to control me and I don't like that. Unlike tso I'm not so easily bullied into things.

So...basically you're now disagreeing not for any reason but just to be contrary.
On page 80.
With a rather short deadline remaining that would have been past already save for mod holds.
With not even a single claim or L-1 on the table.

YES I AM TRYING TO CONTROL YOU - I'M TRYING TO CONTROL ALL OF YOU LACKWITS WHO SEEM 'JUST FINE' WITH THE CURRENT GAMESTATE.
The current gamestate is pure poison, and all of you are somehow happy as peaches in it, as far s I can tell because you PREFER deadline driven wagons.
What the hell is that?

But guess what there's finally a wagon I'm happy that's picking up

Yeah, that one's real speedy humdinger, in about a week or two it will be on l-5 and then we'll be off to the races!
I townread him - fyi.
Your non Pere vote reasoning bugs me - also fyi.

We have plenty of time it will be a while before someone else replaces in and we have a fuck ton of lurkers.

I also don't care that me not voting pere bugs you that's fine by me I'd rather lynch scum.

Tbh I'm not happy about the current but from my point of the wagons aren't appealing so I am trying to start a counter wagon that I agree with. You have people that are town reading both of you and want to vote scum reads and lurkers that do nothing for the game.

I will trust you with the dave reasoning but I showed that muffins so called attack was shit and went no where. Those lines I said were from his post and pretty much the only thing he said on the so called attack. So no that make thing you called attacking isn't going to win points when it has little point and leads no where.

Also I'm not saying your wrong pere is playing shit but what you think is scummy i just think his playing bad. The sheep on the scrip I explained this. The getting caught up with you could be emotional (I have done this as town get caught with a person) .

[Garmr]

@Axle
Both

[Garmr]

continuing from 2001

@Axle
Both

probably nobody else going to like it (find it indicative)
and I am not sure how much I will tomorrow (after I sleep on it)

Unlike tso I'm not so easily bullied into things.

saying you are unlike someone to me seems to put you in the same bucket but different in just that way.
Feels wrong for someone who just had

Fucking fine.

Vote: PeregrineV

If that'll get you off my fucking back, great.

How to shatter a town read by tso.

a town read shattered by the same thing
the relatively new doubt (town read shattered) seems gone.

One is addressing how I feel about tso at the moment the other is addressing how i feel about thors pushes to shove me on the pere wagon were I don't want to go using tso as example.

[Garmr]

tbh I don't understand why scum would reveal they have a role that could confirm multiscum because that would make them more likely to be targeted in the night phase

At first, I wanted to call this town thinking because it shows that you are trying to understand where boon is coming from and admitting you may be wrong. Buuuuuut. Why are you thinking/talking about NKs?

It's obvious Because I'm pissed off that someone with a role would reveal themselves day one.What would you prefer crossfire(if we have multiscum),a vanilla dying or a fucking power role dying? It's the vanilla towns role to hunt hard catch scum and try to get night killed for their townie roles to provide information. If boon is town then his just fucked town over.

So... You voted him thinking he was a power role? How does that help town any more than him claiming?

I was mixing up pere with thor I am town reading pere as well. Sorry my bad.

I'm currently intoxicated so sorry about spelling and grammar and shit just smashed a bottle jagermeister and starting on the wild turkey and honey lol.

Gamr is NOT scum with either Pere or Thor. No way he'd mix up a scum buddy and the person they are fighting with. And drunk posts tend to be pretty telling with stuff like this.

Through Page 58. Gonna hit submit and take a shit. Might or might not come right back to this.

Wow egg that's a terrible misrep boon didn't soft claim till after I voted him and I unvoted him after because i believed it are you even paying attention.

Also your right about one thing I'm not scum with either pere or thor since I'm not scum at all I'm town.

[Garmr]

@GARMR

Because Tso is being Tso.

also I am a little intrigued.

When Aneninen said that is just Bonnskies being Boonskies he was referring to a thing that happened.

Your statement seems to be more open ended. (aka:

Do you think the whole TSO filter is TSO being TSO?

)

Is that an unequivocal town read by you on TSO as, TSO is being TSO

?

It was meant to be used in way to see if you follow your opinion or if you were just a hypocrite. You seemed fine in annenin saying boon is boon with out saying an example yet you wanted me to use a example for tso. I was testing you to see if you would follow through with your logic. You tried a to find a way to justify why anneienn example was ok and why mine wasn't which seemed off to me.

So in short i was testing you

[Garmr]

@GARMR

Because Tso is being Tso.

also I am a little intrigued.

When Aneninen said that is just Bonnskies being Boonskies he was referring to a thing that happened.

Your statement seems to be more open ended. (aka:

Do you think the whole TSO filter is TSO being TSO?

)

Is that an unequivocal town read by you on TSO as, TSO is being TSO

?

It was meant to be used in way to see if you follow your opinion or if you were just a hypocrite. You seemed fine in annenin saying boon is boon with out saying an example yet you wanted me to use a example for tso. I was testing you to see if you would follow through with your logic. You tried a to find a way to justify why anneienn example was ok and why mine wasn't which seemed off to me.

So in short i was testing you

I did/do know what you were 'doing', its what you were forgetting/ignoring that intrigued me.

So that seems like it is is a no, you said things you dont quite fully believe to be true.
If I had not seen where your 'test'

(if your town trap if youre scum)

was going at 1848
and played into it at 1849
I might well have reacted 'badly' (in your eyes) to that aspect. (bad test is bad)

hint: when you are testing me make sure you say what you think.

I now to some degree, see you as having more faith in TSO alignment than can be justified.

It leaked either as its a towny with a faith that based on stuff I dont know, (you know things about his meta I dont)
or its scum leaking...
or your were so excited about (focussed on) your test, you forgot you also dont know other peoples alignments and got creative.

mainly meh.

Tso has been in more of my games than any other player. If it wasn't for that jump onto the pere wagon I wouldn't of put him to null. But talking about leaks aren't you scum reading tso this gives off the impression you think his town?

[Garmr]

Tso has been in more of my games than any other player. If it wasn't for that jump onto the pere wagon I wouldn't of put him to null. But talking about leaks aren't you scum reading tso this gives off the impression you think his town?

Nope:
you can be scum with him and be sure of his alignment,
and hence it not be a 'question' for you. (hence there would be no cognitive dissonance,

when you

stopped

wondering about his alignment

and said overly simply

TSO is TSO

, because you know as his scum buddy for sure what he is.

you can be town with him scum and be surer of his alignment than I see as reasonable (and be right), than I can see based on stuff I don't have.
you can be town with him scum and be surer of his alignment than I see as reasonable (and be fooled), than I can see based on stuff I dont have.

Basically the situation your describing in short is

Me-town and tso-town
me-scum and tso scum
me-town and tso scum
me-scum and tso scum

This is the basic not adding in possible factors like sk and mutiple scum team ect and pretty much the players that aren't new know this concept already.
Your real point is you think/claim I have some sort of extra knowledge which I don't unless you include the fact I actually played with tso so me having a grasp what he may be while you have zero experience with him.

Basically i noticed your pushes on me have pretty much been weak and implied

continuing from 2001

@Axle
Both

probably nobody else going to like it (find it indicative)
and I am not sure how much I will tomorrow (after I sleep on it)

before you even post your case you wrote other people won't find it indicative. That means you have no confidence in that push.

Also the situations you explained could also be put into play with you and tso since your certain his scum.

Tso has been in more of my games than any other player

and have you seen his this reluctant to post case before?
where when?

Asking the same old shit over and over again in new ways axle i looked and it might be because your new but man some of the stuff you say just gives me a head ache.

but to answer your question again the paul walker one mini 1510 is a good example but to be honest I thought I played more games with tso but after going through my history We haven't completed as many as I thought. fire and ice a game I don't like bringing up had tso as town and he didn't make one case.

Tso has never made a case playing with me just small pushes at best.

Hey @TSO!
Look I stopped tunnelling you! (I seemingly have either had an epiphany or a lobotomy )

VOTE: PeregrineV L-6 (now the lead wagon again)

but its going to take me about 2 days to get my reasons for that vote together....

Ane wagon is growing fast shit I must push the counter wagon harder. Come up with reasons latter because I can't think of a reason to push a counter wagon on ane.
Look tso vote pere now please not tunneling you anymore if thor can do it I can do it to.
^Axles mind

[Garmr]

^Axles mind

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

baseless innuendo is fun. so is selective quoting.
The rest of that post talked about what it would take for me to vote the Anenien wagon.
(I suppose as that didn't suit your thesis, you just delete it yeah?)

---

as for mini 1510, and his meta
I agree, in my observation, he does not tend to post walls and cases and stuff, especially not without prompting .

What I asked for earlier were posts that showed scumminess in Aneninen not just bad.
in mini 1510 TSO said this

"If you gave reasoning for doing ...well, anything, you might be of some value as Town. As it stands, nah."

In a later post http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5425755
" look at how cheeky Majiffy and Marquis are being in pushing lynches with no reasoning."

I am not sure how you think that meta is like this game and town read it.
So no you showing me, that you do see he is playing to his meta
as a finished discussion even now.

That's my thoughts in a nut shell and I what I think you were doing. Also Tso was hypocritical in that game and didn't give any cases himself he sheeped his mason buddy. How does those 2 posts change anything?

[Garmr]

PV: NO! You still haven't answered the question of why you assumed insider knowledge rather than error.

"Most games this big have multiscum. So it's safe to assume it, therefore we can't rule out two players both being scum even if their interactions appear unlikely from teammates."

Give me literally ANY possible Thor thought process that makes even close to as much sense as the above and is compatible with your allegations.

I have feeling that knife cuts both ways.
Thor didn't seriously entertain the idea that PereV, might just believe that multiball was not likely and hence assuming it was a TMI thing. At least enough to have towny poke to see what happens.

Indeed why then neither of them called the other out for that.
I almost get the impression they are both scum, or they are both town and there is something about how they play mafia I don't get.

I am kinda leaning towards the latter, and want to lynch TSO, because I have no cognitive dissonance there that guy is not playing on the same team as me. .

What happened to they are both town do you think they are both scum now? Both have pretty much done nothing that would change there reads they are acting consistent.

But your interested in lynching Pere now what changed or do you think there both scum?

[Garmr]

Look at all the people who just sheeped Thor or left him the hell alone. That's why Scum-me would not. Sheeping Thor would be the easy route, unimpeachable. I've said I get lost in Larges...

But people see sheep as scum. Mafia101

Except they really don't. I say again, look at the Thor sheeping. How many of Thor's sheep are being scumread for sheeping? (Hint: none)[/quote]
To be fair I scum read people sheeping thor on the pere wagon If that's what you mean by thors wagon and thors town reading everyone of them and I felt he could only explain one adequately.

[Garmr]

The only agenda I have, as either alignment, is to figure things out.

Why would you have an agenda to figure things out as scum?

Knowledge is power the more you know about the game the more options become available you figure out what best action to take in the night phase, who to press ect scum 101.

[Garmr]

back just spent the weekend partying on a speed boat full of alcohol will catch up.

[Garmr]

axle this is the last time I'm going to talk about that initial conversation with anne

fuck It here it goes. What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him. Annenin comes in and trys to dismantle my case because he doesn't agree (Town motive)/wants to discredit(scum motive what I think) he fails to do so as my points still actually stand. I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.

Plus I have Labeled other reasons why I think annenien is scummy especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.

That's the short of it.

[Garmr]

Pff and like pere wagon is any good becuase of a empty sheep vote he posted when he first started which half your fucking wagon has done and your bull shit multiscum theory shit which if you take a step back is pathetic and shit. Funny how thor townreads everyone on the pere wagon.

[Garmr]

cry

[Garmr]

@Garmr

Whine

Seriously?

If you don't think I have a point - do something about it to prove me wrong.

or prove your wagon right?

I think my wagon is right I have brought up my views on it in my last response to you or did you miss it?

[Garmr]

Lets take TSO who not only wont push the wagon he wants lynched he wont even answer frickin questions about it (Now Garmr is following suit?)

No fuck off I have explained my reasoning you just fucking ignored it this is why everyone in this game has a hands off approach when it comes to you because they don't want to deal with you because your a headache for all the wrong reasons I mean you missed some obvious hints

Fully 80% of posts by AxleGreaser are just straight-up illegible. Please be town, and get NKed so I don't have to wade through them any more.

If it makes anyone feel better,

I stopped reading Anen's and Axle's posts a long time ago. Skim over them

but if I'm not mentioned nothing sticks.

Axle's posts are really hard to read. Like.... super hard to understand. I don't think this is a scumtell, but it's definitely an annoying trait for any alignment.

You could easily find more examples but you get the point. This is probably coming out a lot worse than I meant it to but I been dealing with a couple of fuck wits who are emotional,messy and irresponsible drunks who vomit everywhere,get into arguments and sit around doing nothing while the responsible ones do fucking housework because the shack is our friends parents place and should be treat with respect.

[Garmr]

I can't tell whether

I am stubborn can't admit when I am wrong and believe my way is the only way and look down on everyone else except those who sheep me even if they provide no reason at all

,

Even the people complaining about it are posting 90% *about my wagon*
Which is the *opposite* of what you should be doing if you ant to oppose a wagon in any functional way.

fixed

[Garmr]

Just going to say would much rather a axle or davey vote over an But doubt those are happening today.

[Garmr]

Just going to say would much rather a axle or davey vote over

ane.

But doubt those are happening today.

[Garmr]

Yeh I know. I just like to state my thoughts just in case I get night killed.

[Garmr]

So Axle and Dave are your top scumreads?
Have a sentence sized case to attach to each?

Yep and no Axle yeh dave nah
I believe axle knows what his doing he ran the tso argument and the argument with me by repeating the same stuff over and over yet He couldn't give a read on annienen and ignored request to give a read on him when he was the one attacking the annienen wagon.

His jump on pere wasn't one I liked (we argued this) But because his new to the site it lessened the impact, But I get the feeling his played mafia before this because he seems quite good at it. This might just be my weird filter but I find it frustrating to get a solid read on him.

[Garmr]

second paragraph is dave

[Garmr]

If Dave isn't a top scumread why are you mentioning him at this point in a post designed just to let us know what you think in case you die?
Who is your other top scum read?

Because I am pretty open with all my thoughts.


and muffin.

[Garmr]

UNVOTE: ane


VOTE: pere

Because I don't want a no lynch

[Garmr]

L-1.

One more.

Maybe all we needed was for me to bitch and moan once even though Thor's been doing it all day.

I don't care for the moaning and bitching I just don't want a no lynch.

[Garmr]

-takes a sip of my coffee see's axle debating both boon and nero's convo, opens up my deck pulls out a gun shoots myself-

I would discuss what happened in my neighborhood qt but I don't have one.

Serious note
@people in ane's hood
I got some questions for people in boons neighborhood Did annienen read of boon change in the qt?
Do you think iz is scum?
Is that everything of importance?

@Axle

I'm willing to answer questions as long as they don't get caught up in one subject and we get stuck debating the same thing for the whole day so take them as final and if you have any criticism about it just note it and move TO ANOTHER POST.

Spoiler:

axle this is the last time I'm going to talk about that initial conversation with anne

fuck It here it goes. What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him. Annenin comes in and trys to dismantle my case because he doesn't agree (Town motive)/wants to discredit(scum motive what I think) he fails to do so as my points still actually stand. I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.

Plus I have Labeled other reasons why I think annenien is scummy especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.

That's the short of it.

Lets do this one bit at a time

Garmr: "What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him."

here is way you described it earlier

Garmr: "It's the fact you tried to discredit my points. Which you weren't able to then you just brushed it off passively by saying oh well we don't agree. It really cut any progress on boonskies short as he hasn't provided much content."

So if he failed to discredit your points how did it cut any progress on Boonskies?

While that may be bad play (and personally I do try not to cut across other peoples lines of enquiry.
have you examined how Aneninen plays to see if it was something thats just bound to happen, with how he plays?
He comments on sooooo many things in a post by post way, that if he sees something and has a point of view he posts it.
So Aneninen's natural play is just likely to do that and in 3/4 of the games you play with him he will be town and your likely to scum read him for that....
Seems to me like your tell on him is not very reliable. (You will find him to be scum in 100% of his games)

Well he flipped town so I guess you were right about this bit but I never played a game with him before and this was different than his newbie game(can chalk that up to trying to improve but did the reverse?)

Garmr: "Annenin comes in and trys to dismantle my case because he doesn't agree (Town motive)/wants to discredit(scum motive what I think) he fails to do so as my points still actually stand."

Well he may or may not have tried to dismantle your case.
At the moment I am trying to find out if your case is genuine but wrong, genuine and right and I ought vote it, or scum motivated.
On the other hand as he does know Boonskies play, he may have just been being helpful. I was being helpful but more discreet when i asked you if you had seen a previous Aneninen game.

So somehow the fact that he in your opinion failed to convince

you

that

your

case was wrong makes him scum?
I tell you that is damn high bar to set. You failed to convince me my points against TSO were wrong, does that make you scum?

Not at all but at least but this still a different case from me since he was slightly scum reading boon as well.(didn't figure that out to latter) He flipped town sure so I was wrong but you could at least see things from my view

In fact his(Anens) points were a largely valid. (but unusually expressed.) (See 423 for matching numbers below)

1

Anen said:

Boonskies is Boonskies:

That is to me clearly a claim that Boonskies is playing in way that is compatible with his(Boons) own town meta. Now you can dispute that, but you never have disputed that.
At the time you appeared to even dispute the concept that Boonskies playing according to his town meta would negate your point at all. 423

"how is that even a defence boon skies is boon skies."

Do note. Clarifying yourself as Boonskies did about his RVS post is a self consciousness tell. Thor is right, to be a better townie Boonskies should stop doing that. If many players did that, I would go hmmm. However for Boonskies nowhere near so much.
Also in that very specific example I can understand how Boonskies could be worried his second vote might be mistaken as serious. (some people appeared to have exited RVS)

I get that now I got to warn you through I'm kinda stubborn. (I have reduced my stubbornness a bit so it's not at toxic levels like before the ban. Before I would do things that would go against my win condition because I was stubborn. Announcing my role to piss people off when I didn't need to just to prove a point, Self hammering as town to prove a point and tunneling people while pretty much ignoring everyone else. Will admit i sometimes still tunnel but I at least listen a little).

2

You claimed Booon doing jack all was scummy(implicitly scummier than other people). That he has done the same stuff as lot of other people does mean that information does not make him scummier than them (baring refinements from meta) Eg If Thor had done as little as Boon... that would be very weird.

Point 3

is very weird.
You claim his intention is to dismantle and discredit your case yet you claim you thought he strengthened one point. HUH!
That is much more consistent with his own description that he was only questioning your reasons as being bad (inconsistent with the facts) not actually purposefully commenting on Boonskies alignment.

However if you go little deeper than Aneninen did. It is sad but tue that Boonskies often really does not comment on much, and him continuing to play VI and be proud of it is not particularly alignment indicative.
There is very good reason Thor considered boonskies(IIRC) and some other players fine Vig shots. it is because they are habitually information free zones.

This is more like a statement than a question. I will agree on this because annien flipped town and I kinda do agree with thor on that boon would of been a ok vig shot at the time.

Garmr: I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.

So you believe he made 418, then you challenged him at 419 on points he didnt think he would be questioned about
and then he made up and wrote 420 in 5 mins flat?
and made points that I have just argued that I find valid?
Sounds to me like he did in fact have those arguments at the top of his head and just typed them when he saw and read your post.

Garmr: to be questioned on 418 becuase he just

labeled me as scum

because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game,

Holy over sensitive souls....
He said in 418

Garmr, 360: This was just WTF. What Tha Fukk.

Garmr, 415 – that vote, uhhh. If you have told that you had voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it. But, what kind of reasoning was that?

Which asked a question so I sure hope he was expecting a response...
and

Garmr is FoS-Scum.

Ok

FoS

Garmr
For being overly sensitive about people scum reading him even a tiny bit. Scum are survival oriented and more likely to overreact to suspicion.
So did I do it right?

Garmr: especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.

Re victim posts. Do they actually seem out of character? Remember me referring you to a prior game?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5963842
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5963940
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5964725

Also that is the weirdest chainsaw / wk I ever saw, 418 lists reasons he claims are believable for your read....
Aneninen:

voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it.

Worlds best white knighter.

[/quote]

Yeh I am bit sensitive sometimes and that's a trigger I know exists but can't help through i try to minimize it. On the boat is a example where notscience says something and I tunnel the shit out of him and try to force a 1v1. (We were both town) I will also admit I have a bit of survival instinct in my town games as well as my scum because to be honest I want to be that guy who nails the final scum with his vote. I also enjoy my scum games more than my town games so I sometimes incorporate some of my scum game into my town. It works for me as most people don't even see my scum game as the usual way to play it but I wouldn't recommend it to others.

Also I can say at the time yesterday I would of held down my belief to the last second but now ane flipped well all i can is I was wrong.

I'm going to take a step back and look at this game with different set of lenses.

[Garmr]

Spoiler: fluff

-takes a sip of my coffee see's axle debating both boon and nero's convo, opens up my deck pulls out a gun shoots myself-

Only one problem.. if they are scum you gotta work it out. If they ar town you gotta work it out, there is not enough mislynches to go around.

I would discuss what happened in my neighborhood qt but I don't have one.

I talked to myself.

@Axle

I'm willing to answer questions as long as they don't get caught up in one subject and we get stuck debating the same thing for the whole day so take them as final and if you have any criticism about it just note it and move TO ANOTHER POST.

axle this is the last time I'm going to talk about that initial conversation with anne

fuck It here it goes. What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him. Annenin comes in and trys to dismantle my case because he doesn't agree (Town motive)/wants to discredit(scum motive what I think) he fails to do so as my points still actually stand. I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.

Plus I have Labeled other reasons why I think annenien is scummy especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.

That's the short of it.

Lets do this one bit at a time

Garmr: "What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him."

here is way you described it earlier

Garmr: "It's the fact you tried to discredit my points. Which you weren't able to then you just brushed it off passively by saying oh well we don't agree. It really cut any progress on boonskies short as he hasn't provided much content."

So if he failed to discredit your points how did it cut any progress on Boonskies?

@Garmr

You missed a question

If your points were still valid and sound how did the pressure just go away and you not pursue Boonskies?

Spoiler: what pressure on boonskies?

I also have to say the pressure you applied, in 415 is not exactly something to write home about, seeing as you just recently said

I Still feel a bit uncomfortable with you because you had to say it but I guess it answers my question.

I'm going to be honest I'm lost now and don't know what to think.

I have difficulty believing you went from that (A really thin new read on Boonskies), to thinking Oh wow my pressure on Boon was so strong, Aneninen must have come in and chainsawed him...
Which then later transformed (after the soft claim) into Aneninen WK'd him
To also claim that based on just one little part of Aneninen's walls of comments, strikes me as rather self absorbed. Which is also a thing scum do.

While that may be bad play (and personally I do try not to cut across other peoples lines of enquiry.
have you examined how Aneninen plays to see if it was something thats just bound to happen, with how he plays?
He comments on sooooo many things in a post by post way, that if he sees something and has a point of view he posts it.
So Aneninen's natural play is just likely to do that and in 3/4 of the games you play with him he will be town and your likely to scum read him for that....
Seems to me like your tell on him is not very reliable. (You will find him to be scum in 100% of his games)

Well he flipped town so I guess you were right about this bit but I

never played a game with him

before and this was different than his newbie game(can chalk that up to trying to improve but did the reverse?)

yeah I had the guessed, after I saw the Aneninen flip, that you might approach the day this way.
You do indeed now(or always did if you are scum), know your push was wrong.
the flip however relieves none of my concerns that you were pushing a read in way, for reasons, I found inconsistent with you being town.
and although you

never played a game with him

that was the exact reason I referred you to an appropriate game to get a feel for him.

Spoiler: BTW @Aneneinen

I regard your play here as improvement, this environment (large normals are hard) I could reasonably have expected much worse as town.

So far... Uncontested points.

Spoiler: Garmr not considering timing

Garmr: I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.

So you believe he made 418, then you challenged him at 419 on points he didnt think he would be questioned about
and then he made up and wrote 420 in 5 mins flat?
and made points that I have just argued that I find valid?
Sounds to me like he did in fact have those arguments at the top of his head and just typed them when he saw and read your post.

Failing to consider timing is not inherently scummy, but having scum reads inconsistent with the facts, kinda is, as scum dont really have to try and work stuff out they just make it up and have tendency to stop when it looks right enough (but is still little inconsistent).

Garmr being

over sensitive about being labelled scum

Spoiler:

Garmr: to be questioned on 418 becuase he just

labeled me as scum

because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game,

Holy over sensitive souls....
He said in 418

Garmr, 360: This was just WTF. What Tha Fukk.

Garmr, 415 – that vote, uhhh. If you have told that you had voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it. But, what kind of reasoning was that?

Which asked a question so I sure hope he was expecting a response...
and

Garmr is FoS-Scum.

Ok

FoS

Garmr
For being overly sensitive about people scum reading him even a tiny bit. Scum are survival oriented and more likely to overreact to suspicion.
So did I do it right?

Garmr: especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.

Re victim posts. Do they actually seem out of character? Remember me referring you to a prior game?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5963842
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5963940
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5964725

Also that is the weirdest chainsaw / wk I ever saw, 418 lists reasons he claims are believable for your read....
Aneninen:

voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it.

Worlds best white knighter.

I'm going to take a step back and look at this game with different set of lenses.

if you are town that would be a very good idea.
I think its probably a good one if your scum as well,

PS I may or may not have deleted important bits out of my original post this edit got unwieldy at some points.

Spoiler: meta discussion

(discussion about discussion)
Finally I know you want to move on.. as you now know Aneninens alignment.
I don't know yours yet.
I am not sure how you know mine.
So no I wont be talking about what you choose.
I think your day 1 reads on Aneninen, claimed interrupted push on Boonskies were hinky and scummy, I want to understand them.
Do feel free to pursue other things on D2, if enough of them look towny, I might find I need to press other people more.

Depends it's situational if someone out the blue calls me scum with little to no reasoning I get a little annoyed and Notice how I didn't jump onto ane straight away and waited till after the conersation. I was trying to work him out. I'm more likely to react when pushed if someone is to buddy buddy or when someone scum reads me for shit reasons (or no reason). I work best if there's interaction between me and the person. Also if i can see the thought process and they are wrong but it's obvious they are town and they are trying I list them as town simple. Also If I'm admitting meta to you and showing meta where it actually happens then don't ignore it that is so fucking annoying since It's something I would do in about

nearly every game I ever had.

Also wtf is with that

Misrep

My vote came off boon when I started reading him as town why do I need to apply pressure on a town read?

Also making shit up is lame you have to actually find things you would consider scummy as town then that way if your questioned on it you don't get caught out that's like scum 101. I'm proud of my record as scum (%100 win rate) not so proud of my town win rate (like 25%) so that's why i want to improve the latter. I know what to do if I actually care about being scum read and can cruise by with little to none actual work but when I care about hunting scum I put my mind out there.

Also I don't know your alignment where the fuck are you getting that from but my guess from yesterday still hasn't changed scum.

VOTE: Axle

@Axle you should vote me lets make this a 1v1 you and me.

[Garmr]

If you iso Ane he still thought boon was scum is what I was going to say. But after isoing he doesn't want to lynch boon going to be honest I didn't actually notice happening.

Also the slandy vs good morning is something I find interesting as I'm actually mildy town reading gm but I don't know what to make of slandy. I was kinda waiting on him to engage a convo with me because we seem to sync up when we are town together and when one of us is scum we end up hard pushing two separate point of views on a subject and end up clashing with out hard pushing a scum read one each other. But I'm not getting any of those feelings.

[Garmr]

Four pages in less than a day, filled mostly with walls. Lovely. And my two biggest scumreads are voting each other. This quote bugs the hell out of me, though, so I think I know which one I think is not aligned with town.

@Axle you should vote me lets make this a 1v1 you and me.

VOTE: Garmr

It's like he sees how much Axle is prone to clogging up the thread with walls and wants to make it that much harder for us to wade through them. (*Cue incoming misrep claim*)

And can someone sum up what the hell is going on with the Boon/Iz/Anen/GM hood? All I'm getting is that Anen had a plan that a few of you sort of want to go through with, Boon is claiming a PR, and is also misrepping people from the hood. I'm getting a preliminary townread on the way Izar is treating the situation, but it may just be because I don't fully understand it.

I'm quite interested in this post becuase day 1 you weren't scum reading axle.

Aneninen:

I think we have a pretty good wagon on PereV.

Not sure how happy I am with either the wagon on you or Axle, but eh.

I'm town. Thor's probably town. TSO and Davesaz are probably town.

AxleGreaser... might be town?

It's a tough one.

You were town reading axle not to long ago and you haven't even given a read on me and Now ime and axle are your biggest scum read?

That doesn't make much sense.

[Garmr]

Sorry I posted 2171 in the other post by accident. Time travel lol.

[Garmr]

I'm quite interested in this post becuase day 1 you weren't scum reading axle.

-snip-

You were town reading axle not to long ago and you haven't even given a read on me and Now ime and axle are your biggest scum read?

That doesn't make much sense.

It wasn't a town read either. I've been trying to figure out if his walls are a scum tactic for generating noise and making the game that much harder to play for the rest of us or just a playstyle thing. An (admittedly short) bit of meta research coupled with you egging him on made me scumread you harder, since it encouraged him to get into a tunnel-y 1v1 against you. So I voted you.

So you did a short meta on me. Can you point out the games you read and how far you actually read into them?

[Garmr]

Also you said he might be town how is that not a town read? Sounds like a null-town read to me.

[Garmr]

So you did a short meta on me. Can you point out the games you read and how far you actually read into them?

Not on you, but on Axle. What I saw from other town games of his looked consistent with his game here. Meta isn't perfect, but it was enough to figure out which to vote.

Also you said he might be town how is that not a town read? Sounds like a null-town read to me.

I don't equate a null-town read as a town read. I felt that you two are most likely not aligned with one another and that you were the more likely scum.

What made you feel the need to meta axle yet not meta me? Also the way you word this is interested you show quite a bit of certainty in this?

[Garmr]

Also scriptian i was arguing with axle alot day 1 So what about today made you go holy shit now they both look scummy.

[Garmr]

What made you feel the need to meta axle yet not meta me? Also the way you word this is interested you show quite a bit of certainty in this?

You, Axle, and Anen all had that walls of text thing going on all day 1. Anen had a bit of townie genuineness that neither you nor Axle seemed to show. When you pushed Axle to argue with you, I went to see if his town game would line up with the noise he's been putting out in this thread. When it did, I found your post to be calculated.

Also scriptian i was arguing with axle alot day 1 So what about today made you go holy shit now they both look scummy.

Check out the post where I voted you. That you are egging him on for a 1v1 makes all kinds of red flags go off.

What would my scum motivation for wanting a 1v1 be as it draws attention to me and him. Also how did you find them calculated what stroke you as me calculating?

[Garmr]

What would my scum motivation for wanting a 1v1 be as it draws attention to me and him. Also how did you find them calculated what stroke you as me calculating?

Actually, 1v1s just clog up the thread and make it really hard for town to legitimately scumhunt because their conversations are derailed onto the 1v1. I usually find tunneling to be done by town, but it's a legitimate scum tactic as well. It's a distraction, and since you seemed to realize this, I find you attempting to create another day of pointless tunneling to be scummy.

I have 1v1 in my town meta which I think I have brought up before and I usually investigate other things while 1v1ing anyway. Aslong as you don't do a thor and pere and keep it going the whole day. It should be fine. But why do you think I want to draw away from the current conversation. I feel like I'm starting two ongoing ones at once.

[Garmr]

Aslong as you don't do a thor and pere and keep it going the whole day. It should be fine.

So...basically as long as you don't do a 1 v 1?
Because if you initiate and then stop - it's not a 1 v 1. It's a wagon that you are planning not to push.

Nope you push have a break push have a break push have a break. You don't need an unvote.

[Garmr]

I have 1v1 in my town meta which I think I have brought up before and I usually investigate other things while 1v1ing anyway.

I did not see this. Can you quote yourself or link me to it?

Aslong as you don't do a thor and pere and keep it going the whole day. It should be fine. But why do you think I want to draw away from the current conversation. I feel like I'm starting two ongoing ones at once.

I think you wanted to get into an argument with Axle because everyone else's eyes glaze over when these arguments happen. It causes town apathy like what happened on Day 1 because wading through those posts is just ridiculous.

me and gg
me and ns
me and waynkgg

Also I'm not drawing away I'm bringing attention to scum. Plus I kinda like it when everyone's talking about me.

[Garmr]

Nope you push have a break push have a break push have a break. You don't need an unvote.

I look forward to seeing this.

Wait a second. Since when is initiating a 1v1 the same thing as pushing a wagon? I totally disagree that the two are one and the same, even if they share a few traits.

Are you saying that Garmr is just pushing a wagon when he goads Axle into fifteen straight pages of incoherent back and forthing?

I don't see what difference this is other than saying that you don't like how he is pushing a wagon. I see little value in debating word choice over it.

When I do this will you jump on the wagon with me -gives thor a wink and does a sexy pose.-

[Garmr]

And that would be Iz. She scum slipped. Aneninen didn't want us to bring that up because of some plan or something. But we don't know how plan. Goodmorning pointed out the scum slip, Anen and I agreed with it.

That can only be a scum slip if there is a 4th neighborhood has any in it admitted to it existing yet?

[Garmr]

I don't get how that was a scum slip?

[Garmr]

@Iz
I see why people could think it's a slip now. Sounds more like theory crafting.
@axle
I'm curious as to why you didn't vote me when you obviously are pushing the scum read on me and you left your vote on boon. I essentially did what I did to a greater extent and I'm not considered a VI I expected you to shift your vote to me but you keeped it on boon. And after that you actually pushed against me yet didn't bother shifting your vote why?

yeah bullshit.
Garmr's 1v1 is a convenient pile of an excuse. It smells of scum expedience. It is playing into his own self aware meta.

When you saying and pushing the fact I'm scum why aren't you voting me? Your case on boon isn't very strong the point you pointed out were he was wrong about the knowledge bit(scum slip didn't appear yet),he doesn't want to talk to you because you frustrate him(No one really likes talking to you it's just something we have to do.) and he your tying to push a role out of him while trying not to look like it that's fucking scummy man.

I'm yet to form an opinion on boon's push on iz and his reaction to it. It all reads a bit vague to me. Is there any reason the plan boon was talking about cannot be fully disclosed?

I'm not answering it because you'll just come up with an ignorant response, so I decide that I'm better off just ignoring you so I don't get frustrated.

Oh noes I have duel of wits with Boonskies
VOTE: boonskies

Oh god, you are the fucking worst. You vote everyone who disagrees with you and afterwards you are the most bullheaded person ever. If this is a characteristic of your town game, stop sucking.

I've always seen being bullheaded as a town characteristic until recently a scum player used that to completely catch me off-guard. (GM knows!) It's an easy way to not contribute and I'll meta now.

I dont vote for him for disagreeing with me.

Its for not being prepared to play the game and answer the damn question.

Do you know if his claim is real or faked?
I dont
So I want him to clarify what the hell he meant D1.

This shows me your interested in finding out boons role rather than his alignment.

Situation in nut shell your scum reading me but your votes on boon you haven't given any indication strong to why you think boon is scum. Your prioritizing gaining information over pushing a scum read which isn't in town interests.

Also what happened to your read on tso you were so sure his scum but you haven't pushed him in the slightest today you just mention you still think his scummy?

Your priorities don't add up to town.

[Garmr]

When you saying and pushing the fact I'm scum why aren't you voting me? Your case on boon isn't very strong the point you pointed out were he was wrong about the knowledge bit(scum slip didn't appear yet),he doesn't want to talk to you because you frustrate him(No one really likes talking to you it's just something we have to do.)

and now

you're

tying to push a role out of him while trying not to look like it that's fucking scummy man.

Edited for grammar and better understanding edited parts highlighted bold and italiced.

[Garmr]

@axle
I'm curious as to why you didn't vote me when you obviously are pushing the scum read on me and you left your vote on boon. I essentially did what I did to a greater extent and I'm not considered a VI I expected you to shift your vote to me but you keeped it on boon. And after that you actually pushed against me yet didn't bother shifting your vote why?

One good reason was to see what you would do.

This post of yours conveys to me a sense that you are not currently certain 100% I am scum.

When you offered to go 1v1 were you certain that I was scum.
If so Why?
and when did that certain read form based on which posts?

I'm 85 percent sure you are scum which is why I offered the 1v1. The only time someone can be 100% is if they are a role that gains information and I would say the information out straight away first post. Also I never said i was 100% certain in my initial post.

Also I don't know your alignment where the fuck are you getting that from

but my

guess

from yesterday still hasn't changed scum.

VOTE: Axle

@Axle you should vote me lets make this a 1v1 you and me.

My read of you formed day 1 when I noticed your behavior change you stayed out of the direct line for a bit. But then pounced on tso and then you changed. You went from semi passive that mediated things to extremely aggressive constantly attacking even in situations you didn't need to. A lot of your stuff was filler dressed up as content and you would repeat the same thing over and over instead of finding something new.

I can't remember the exact post but I was thinking you were scummy when but it was close to when I started calling you mediator post:967 was when I started becoming suspicious and poking and testing but you had some similar thoughts on some topics (you still do on some :/ ) to me so It made me uneasy and I didn't know if that was a sign you were town or I was wrong about some things or I was really really right. Post 1589 is when I decided to act on my instincts and felt you had pushed the null limit to long.

@P-EDIT
Axle to prevent clogging put those multiple posts into one big post with spoiler tags.

[Garmr]

I can't remember the exact post when I started thinking you were scummy. But it was close to when I started calling you mediator( post:967)That's when I really started becoming suspicious and poking and testing. But you had some similar thoughts on some topics (you still do on some :/ ) to me so It made me uneasy and I didn't know if that was a sign you were town,I was wrong about some things or I was really really right. Post 1589 is when I decided to act on my instincts and felt you had pushed the null limit to long.

Editied to make it easier to understand It's 12 am here. So spelling and grammar not so good.

[Garmr]

Axle is town.

I'm going to correct you slandaar

Shiro is town
Axle is scum

The only reasoning that have been presented is thors gut (remember pere) and the fact she did a compromise vote like me and many others. Can you give me a actual reason to why Shiro is scum.

[Garmr]

@Slandaar

I miss you buddy but are you town. Your hard to read this game it's like you changed so much I don't even know you .

[Garmr]

[Garmr]

garmr don't make me think you're scum

Any excuse to use that picture

[Garmr]

Town two shot bulletproof neighbor.

How does this point out there's multiscum? I thought you were hinting at something else.

[Garmr]

I thought my two shot BP

made sense

for it to be bulletproof. Why else would it be there? There's probably a SK in this game instead of a second scum faction.

I'm

almost positive

it's multiball. My role basically implies it.

rubbish
you change your story so fast my head spins.

Bah I hate to say this but I agree with axle.

[Garmr]

Seriously not happy with your latest replies. Your overreaction with the iz so called slip, how the hell you got multiball out a bullet proof role and your reasoning for voting thor (A thor lynch will tell you why egg was killed how?) and admitting to not reading day 1 that well.

UNVOTE: Axle
VOTE: Boonskies

[Garmr]

Can we stop with the bulbazak I don't like him much.

[Garmr]

Id be thinking the red bits in 3041 light them up like Christmas trees...

You might also want to look at 2921

Yeah but none of these even remotely make me want to lynch him.

You know it's quite common to give sks or scum bullet proof roles in game with multiple threats and think about it boons being playing to survive he really hasn't done much. He made a promise first day didn't really hunt and second day annienen dies and boon comes out swinging at Iz. He could just be setting himself up to earn some town cred and what he thought would be a easy lynch on iz if he killed annienen because I don't see him killing egg who was defending him.

I feel like his a sk because he feels the need to announce the fact his two shot bullet proof to discourage who ever is shooting from shooting him again. If he was mafia,werewolf alien what ever he would have his team mates and would probably feel secure.

[Garmr]

Id be thinking the red bits in 3041 light them up like Christmas trees...

You might also want to look at 2921

Yeah but none of these even remotely make me want to lynch him.

You know it's quite common to give sks or scum bullet proof roles in game with multiple threats and think about it boons being playing to survive he really hasn't done much. He made a promise first day didn't really hunt and second day annienen dies and boon comes out swinging at Iz.

He could just be setting himself up to earn some town cred

and what he thought would be a easy lynch on iz if he killed annienen because I don't see him killing egg who was defending him.

I feel like his a sk because he feels the need to announce the fact his two shot bullet proof to discourage who ever is shooting from shooting him again. If he was mafia,werewolf alien what ever he would have his team mates and would probably feel secure.

Which action earns him town cred?

By trying to draw a shot to him he could announce he was bullet proof and gain some cred when he gets shot. This usually goes well with town.

[Garmr]

@Anyone
Odd question. If a two shot BP gets shot, does he get notified on this forum?

Depends on the mod I think.

[Garmr]

who ever is shooting from shooting him again.

what makes you think anyone is shooting him?

The way his acting about his claim makes me feel like something made him panic.

[Garmr]

or it could be his claiming it now so he is letting who ever is shooting (mafia,vigs,sk what ever he isn't) not to shoot him and make sure his pretty much safe in the night phases. To be honest I'm just creating a scenarios in my head why he would emphasis the fact his 2 shot.

@pedit
He could be lying about the amount of shot he has?

[Garmr]

Also it's boon to you actually expect grade A scum thinking?

[Garmr]

who ever is shooting from shooting him again.

what makes you think anyone is shooting him?

The way his acting about his claim makes me feel like something made him panic.

so with two deaths N1 you think he got shot why?

or how?

Like I said I was conducting theroy's in my head.

Boons actions just don't look town at all and tiers defense of them makes me start to question if boon is really scum and not a sk and his scum buddies with tier.

[Garmr]

I really really want to lynch scum It's killing me inside that people think boons town. I don't give a flip what you think of me but Why the fuck are you trying to justify boons behavior his scum.

[Garmr]

In post 3043, Shiro wrote:Which brings us back to why do you think it is scummy ?

My answer is that I would have to teach a concept before being able to answer that for you - so I choose not to.

Thor I like to learn new things if you explained a part of the method or just the name I'll go look the rest up myself.

[Garmr]

I claimed my role at not even at L-2, how is that a panic claim? Also, it's not similar to the one I did my tracker fake claim, as I claimed that one day 1, in a game where I was

much

more active than I was here. If I was scum for one of my first times, don't you think I'd be far more interested in this game than I was day 1? Also, it got to the point where I wasn't going to draw a NK anymore , so me claiming does nothing to change that.

Also, Gamr is sprouting fluff. We should lynch him. Or Iz.

VOTE: Gamr

No spouting fluff would be irrelevant to the current game state. What you meant to say is you don't agree with my points and think i'm saying them because you think that's what a scum me would say.

[Garmr]

Just going to say it I been metaing flubbernugget and I think he is town this game. I think I picked up a scum tell for him or two which I don't want to share on here but he hasn't done those this game so there's no real point to saying it. Also the way he treats tso in this game compared to the way he treats tso in his scum game is different even through he has scum read him in this and that.

[Garmr]

Hey guys it's still Thursday right?!

It's been 8 months since I've played a game. Wow.

I'm gonna go back and investigate.

Peace.

Reads completely fake. It literally makes me laugh reading it and he wasn't trying to be funny.

Lol that post alone was the prelude of a flaker. Don't see how it's alignment indicative in any way through. Before you said you didn't like it. Which makes me think you thought it was scummy. Can you explain how it's scummy?

[Garmr]

I don't get why you feel the need to ask thor slandaar you either do or you don't that's a pretty weird thing to do.

[Garmr]

I don't understand how this works. How could you determine SK/Mafia associations?

Only mafia who know it's not multiball could see boon's 2-shot bulletproof as a SK slip, as I've laid out.

That's interesting because I only thought he would be a sk because of his urge to survive is strong like I see in most third party roles. No were did i mention that it was a sk slip through. I inferred it was a scummy/antitown thing to do if you were talking about the bp. He could of soaked up a shot or two at least if he was town. Which makes think this a scum boon thing

Id be thinking the red bits in 3041 light them up like Christmas trees...

You might also want to look at 2921

Yeah but none of these even remotely make me want to lynch him.

You know it's quite common to give sks or scum bullet proof roles in game with multiple threats and think about it boons being playing to survive he really hasn't done much. He made a promise first day didn't really hunt and second day annienen dies and boon comes out swinging at Iz. He could just be setting himself up to earn some town cred and what he thought would be a easy lynch on iz if he killed annienen because I don't see him killing egg who was defending him.

I feel like his a sk because he feels the need to announce the fact his two shot bullet proof to discourage who ever is shooting from shooting him again. If he was mafia,werewolf alien what ever he would have his team mates and would probably feel secure.

But here's something fun

If he was trying to pull the night 1 kill onto him, then why is he scumreading me for not dying?

It's not rational. But you'll have to explain why irrational=scum because way more often irrational=town.

I'm pretty sure scumboon could come up with a better reason to scumread you.

Think about that last line, please.

so...you're assuming boon truthfully claims his role as SK?

this is what I expect from someone town reading boon

I'm gonna say this: if boon flips SK, garmr is scum.

What is your own read on boon and what do you think of his thor vote?

I don't really have a read on him; I could see him either as a disinterested PR or a Scum coasting on a claim like that.
His Thor vote was not good.

Me like this read

Not someone who's open to the possibility boon is scum.

[Garmr]

I'm sure there's a reason somewhere why I don't have Garmr on my scumread list but it's not really on the forefront of my mind.

On a rather unrelated note, seeing a player of Thor's caliber relying on petty insults to defend himself is somewhat shameful and continues to make me think that he has no genuine defense or explanation to offer.

I on the other hand did not leave my reasons in my other pants pocket 3243 (since then I remembered Reinoe is Reinoe)

However you appear set on the course of neither voting Garmr nor refuting my case.
Your call.. for now.

Maybe because your case is bad and no one takes it seriously, it's not really worth discussing.

[Garmr]

You are voting me. But now your just clogging the thread with heaps and heaps of posts. That's fine to push me but if your not offering any new points do it maybe once a page so you don't clog up the thread. Also people are more likely to listen to you if you don't shove it hard in their face.

[Garmr]

Also you're posts lack fun since your attitude is rotten. Your taking the game way to seriously with out balancing it out slightly with some fun. Look at thor his serious and comes off as a jackass but his the type of jackass yah love also he makes playful stabs between posts and interesting to keep.


I'm giving these tips so people reading will at least be interested and I really don't mind being a wagon.

Also that summary your actually guilty of yourself

the omgus basically everyone you voted isn't actually town reading you aka "me,tso,good mornin,boonskies" the exceptions are your opening vote on scriptian which would be easy to place a vote on and pere which was also easy and you were the one that put him in a position over annenien to be lynched after you said that thor and pere was a tvt for most of the day.

also everyone you voted except me and gm were easy vote tso(through town easy),scriptian,pere,boonskies

Also the fact you said boon was a easy vote and that was the wagon you were just on -shakes head-

[Garmr]

I have to agree flubber is town in this game. His scum game if you look into it is pretty obvious.

[Garmr]

Thors null on my reads list at the moment but I do think that boon is genuinely scum of some kind.

[Garmr]

ost 3392[/url], Garmr"]Thors null on my reads list at the moment

HOW.

Thor has almost FOUR HUNDRED POSTS. HOW DO YOU NOT HAVE A READ FROM THAT.[/quote]
he was a town read before But his push on shiro makes no sense to me and that jump on iz well that was bad. I'm rereading all those four hundread posts

[Garmr]

So you finally seeing that shiro is town slaandar that's good. But If you have a look back didn't you notice something if you look back at thors play on a whole. Thors plays here reminds me of that game where me and him were scum buddies. His vote on shiro was bad(so were your reasoning on shiro) and the iza vote is bad.

VOTE: thor

We can deal with boon or axle tomorrow. Thor needs out first.

[Garmr]

axle gm is town

[Garmr]

I don't think Shiro is town.

None of the cases on shiro really stick or strike me as worse than what other players have been doing. By that logic you should of been scum reading tso's slot and it's quite obvious tso is town.

[Garmr]

@Garmr Axl just pointed a big contradiction. Care to explain why you believe a null read needs out now over people you are certain are scum ?

If you were paying attention to what I was writing you would note that i said i hated thor day 2 play and would look into it more. Well I looked into and think his scum

Thors plays here reminds me of that game where me and him were scum buddies.

This pretty much implies I'm scum reading him I thought it was obvious.

[Garmr]

I have had 7 hours to think about this shiro to think about this shiro and I have had constantly declining opinion of thor since the start of day 2.

[Garmr]

and lets be honest no I pushed axle no one hoped on because no one wants to deal with the obnoxious bastard. I pushed boon no one but everyone buying his Village idiot routine this town fucks me off It is one of the worst player list i have ever played with.

[Garmr]

I pushed boon but everyone buying his Village idiot routine*