NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

AxleGreaser
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Post Post #1400  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:39 pm

In post 1229, T S O wrote:
In post 223, Aneninen wrote:Aaaaand fck the shyt, I had been nearly finished with my catchup when I misclicked and it's gone.
Fortunately, there are not too many things to post about.
Csareo is being Csareo right on Page2. And he goes on like that which is a null and basicly, most of the posts are related to him. In the game I linked he did the very same.
That post-pair from Nero, calling Csareo not-town and town in his next post is a WTF.
Also, need we care about those Day1/2 stuffid claims?

Unfortunately, I have no real reads yet. Mostly because of Csareo, who has been drawing away the focus of the game.
However,
@Those who're scumreading them: what's the case against TSO? What's the case against Toby? These things might be based upon real content but I'm simply too tired to distill the very little real content out of the Csareo–respond-to-Csareo–Csareo–another-respond–Csareo... rondo.

In post 241, Aneninen wrote:
In post 231, TobyLoby wrote:Anen: I mean, I'm reading what you're saying as you having seen Csareo play similarly before and he was town, but you're also calling his play here a null.


Having thought about this question (I woke up about an hour ago) I must admit, my null-read is based upon the assumption that a scum!Csareo wouldn't have a very different gameplay. (I didn't find any games which he was surely scum in.) However, in Mini#1601 (before replaced into his slot on Day1) he had done more vote and read-flipping than here. We must remember this, though this may be a sing of a kind of improvement of his gameplay.

@Thor. I re-checked TOS. He should know Csareo's gameplay well – yet he's putting too much effort into his conversation with him. Also, TSO had voted for "Caesar" and our mod posted that his vote wouldn't be counted. TSO hasn't correct his vote since then (nor did another vote), as far as I can see. These things are disturbing.

In post 250, Aneninen wrote:TSO knows how terrible Csareo is on Day1 and he also knows that he was town in that game. I simply don't understand why TSO's maintaining a long interaction with Csareo – he must have known that by getting involved in that would increase the "noise" in the thread. It's definitely anti-town and – in my opinion – scummy too.
There's something else which is merely an intuition. What if both of them are scum(s) and their Day1 is purely intentional?


Tier, do you think this is a natural progression of reads?


Hi, please explain what you find unnatural about it in a way that shows him to be scum. (or even more likely than random)

Aneninen does indeed proceed and play in way that would not be natural if you did it. That does not make him scum.

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Post Post #1401  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:40 pm

ooops, soory. Please explain that unless this is again a post about stuff that it would be fuckin stupid to think was scum indicative.

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Post Post #1402  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:43 pm

@Script - it wasn't relevant anymore, and I mainly only voted Cho to give some pressure, but he disappeared. My day 1 reads in large games are blah.
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Post Post #1403  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:55 pm

In post 1393, Scripten wrote:

In post 1376, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1250, Scripten wrote:AxelGreaser: Do you find TSO backing off on his wagon to be alignment-indicative. If so, which way do you see it moving?


That is the weirdest shit I have ever seen in a Mafia game. It feels wrong.
(I am probably not going to be able to say why or what.)

I have read it several times since I got back. That is not helping.

I see it moving towards sleep, I need some of that.

@Anyone who happens to know (save me finding it)
What neighbourhood is TSO in?


...Are you serious? I'm asking you to tell me if you found anything alignment-indicative in a current event. That is not a weird question and there is absolutely no excuse not to answer it.


Also now that i am more awake.
No I do not provide neatly packaged simplistic statements about the people I am trying determine the alignment of. (At the moment that is TSO)

and the answer said exactly what was happening. I was tired. I did read it several times.
I did find something quite weird was going on, it was probably weird in the sense of fferlyt trajectory
in that I wonder about changes in direction of events that seemed to have no cause, hence my question about neighbourhoods.

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Post Post #1404  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:02 pm

In post 1393, Scripten wrote:Also, answer the other part of my post. I'm NOT liking your play so far.


Given that I only just stopped voting you the feeling would be mutual.

Scripten: "Also, hypothetical question. Let's say you had to start a wagon on a player who's not got any votes on them currently. Who would you choose and why?"

Well I did just start voting someone, who had no votes it was TSO. So if you are looking for me to provide original certifiably obviously non sheep input into the game that is it.
You could always read the thread carefully and see if I was me tooing in the other discussions or adding original input.

Whats the problem is TSO your buddy?

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Post Post #1405  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:06 pm

In post 1403, AxleGreaser wrote:Also now that i am more awake.
No I do not provide neatly packaged simplistic statements about the people I am trying determine the alignment of. (At the moment that is TSO)

and the answer said exactly what was happening. I was tired. I did read it several times.
I did find something quite weird was going on, it was probably weird in the sense of fferlyt trajectory
in that I wonder about changes in direction of events that seemed to have no cause, hence my question about neighbourhoods.


Oh, holy crap, I misread your post really badly. Apologies, I thought you were directly referring to my question when you said "it" was weird and wrong, rather than TSO's post. That was totally my bad there, and I take back what I said about your play. (I don't respond well when I think my questions are being blown off.)

Also, to answer your question, TSO is in a neighborhood with myself, Davesaz, and Nero Cain

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Post Post #1406  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:13 pm

In post 1404, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1393, Scripten wrote:Also, answer the other part of my post. I'm NOT liking your play so far.


Given that I only just stopped voting you the feeling would be mutual.

Scripten: "Also, hypothetical question. Let's say you had to start a wagon on a player who's not got any votes on them currently. Who would you choose and why?"

Well I did just start voting someone, who had no votes it was TSO. So if you are looking for me to provide original certifiably obviously non sheep input into the game that is it.
You could always read the thread carefully and see if I was me tooing in the other discussions or adding original input.

Whats the problem is TSO your buddy?


I have a townread on him, if that counts. I don't agree entirely on all of his wagons, but I think he'd be a mislynch. That's why I asked you to pick out someone scummy from the players who haven't got wagons yet. I wanted to pick your brain on the players that might be skating by.

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Post Post #1407  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:19 pm

Scripten: (I don't respond well when I think my questions are being blown off.)

Really, how unusual of you.
Spoiler: spoiler
BTW thats now possibly for me the funniest 12 words in the thread.) and my words out side the spoiler are sarcasm, because yeah i know the feeling, but it is not only not respond well, but find it to be scum indicative, when people try to get out of being responsive when cornered.


Ta. for the neighbourhood thing, I had at some point searched and found that, and that does not seem like the kind of neighbourhood that could explain what seems to be a change in direction of TSO.
Time will tell.

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Post Post #1408  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:41 pm

In post 1403, AxleGreaser wrote:I did find something quite weird was going on, it was probably weird in the sense of fferlyt trajectory


There's a little problem with this theory. If it's multi scum like people keep bringing up. Then wouldn't scum be actually trying to scum hunt to so they don't have to fake it?

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Post Post #1409  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:24 pm

In post 1407, AxleGreaser wrote:Scripten: (I don't respond well when I think my questions are being blown off.)

Really, how unusual of you.
Spoiler: spoiler
BTW thats now possibly for me the funniest 12 words in the thread.) and my words out side the spoiler are sarcasm, because yeah i know the feeling, but it is not only not respond well, but find it to be scum indicative, when people try to get out of being responsive when cornered.


Ta. for the neighbourhood thing, I had at some point searched and found that, and that does not seem like the kind of neighbourhood that could explain what seems to be a change in direction of TSO.
Time will tell.


The problem I'm finding with evasiveness is that how often scum can successfully hide in it, since it's so common for townies to play that way. It -should- be- a scumtell, to the extent that scum shouldn't be able to do it and get away with it, but it's not and that makes me frustrated. When I read your post for the first time, it seemed like you were calling my question "weird" and thus refusing to answer, so I responded aggressively to attempt to get a real answer out of you. Of course, since my reading comprehension failed so hard, I've got egg on my face right now.

That said, why would you expect a hood to change a player's direction, as you say?

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Post Post #1410  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:33 pm

In post 1408, Garmr wrote:
In post 1403, AxleGreaser wrote:I did find something quite weird was going on, it was probably weird in the sense of fferlyt trajectory


There's a little problem with this theory. If it's multi scum like people keep bringing up. Then wouldn't scum be actually trying to scum hunt to so they don't have to fake it?



Sorry but no, its not actually a theory, it is an, I dont understand.

The trajectory thing is about, the posts before and after point in time not making sense to me as a sequence. Something 'feels' off like 'where did that come from'.
An external daytime communication avenue would explain my feeling, but the people in TSOs neighbourhood don't feel right.

It could also have been I was tired. I will see what happens when I poke around a bit.

Yeah if its multiball, rather lot of common tells go away. Scum can still however be faking it, as survival is stronger instinct in scum as there are fewer of them scum hunting has risks, if you personally start pinging on guys in the other scum team they may NK you as a seemingly dangerous townie. So scum in multiball (I hypothsise) still will play different, but it will be harder to find them but there will be more of them?
Also at least one multiball scum player wants to be the one scum under the radar player the other team cant find.

Not sure you thought deep enough.

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Post Post #1411  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:41 pm

In post 1409, Scripten wrote:That said, why would you expect a hood to change a player's direction, as you say?


discussing things in hood could from my external view, generate jumps and gaps in the flow/trajectory of a player.
any information exchange channel that i am unaware of might do that.

So might sitting down and thinking, whoops why did I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <<< bunch of graphic imagery elided as pointless and tasteless.
So if TSO is the kind of player that can sit down and think oops all by himself, then I suppose no need for another channel.

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Post Post #1412  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:10 pm

In post 1405, Scripten wrote:
In post 1403, AxleGreaser wrote:Also now that i am more awake.
No I do not provide neatly packaged simplistic statements about the people I am trying determine the alignment of. (At the moment that is TSO)

and the answer said exactly what was happening. I was tired. I did read it several times.
I did find something quite weird was going on, it was probably weird in the sense of fferlyt trajectory
in that I wonder about changes in direction of events that seemed to have no cause, hence my question about neighbourhoods.


Oh, holy crap, I misread your post really badly. Apologies, I thought you were directly referring to my question when you said "it" was weird and wrong, rather than TSO's post. That was totally my bad there, and I take back what I said about your play. (I don't respond well when I think my questions are being blown off.)

Also, to answer your question, TSO is in a neighborhood with myself, Davesaz, and Nero Cain


@Anyone, (who is not me or scripten)
This post suggest he mistook an earlier post of mine
and thought the "it" (that i used repeatedly) in that post was me calling his question weird instead, of being an actual reply to the question, and commenting on the recent flow of the thread.
Spoiler:
In post 1403, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1393, Scripten wrote:

In post 1376, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1250, Scripten wrote:AxelGreaser: Do you find TSO backing off on his wagon to be alignment-indicative. If so, which way do you see it moving?


That is the weirdest shit I have ever seen in a Mafia game. It feels wrong.
(I am probably not going to be able to say why or what.)

I have read it several times since I got back. That is not helping.

I see it moving towards sleep, I need some of that.

@Anyone who happens to know (save me finding it)
What neighbourhood is TSO in?


...Are you serious? I'm asking you to tell me if you found anything alignment-indicative in a current event. That is not a weird question and there is absolutely no excuse not to answer it.


Also now that i am more awake.
No I do not provide neatly packaged simplistic statements about the people I am trying determine the alignment of. (At the moment that is TSO)

and the answer said exactly what was happening. I was tired. I did read it several times.
I did find something quite weird was going on, it was probably weird in the sense of fferlyt trajectory
in that I wonder about changes in direction of events that seemed to have no cause, hence my question about neighbourhoods.

The blue text in the above spoiler indicates that is his initial interpretation of my answer.
A thought crosses my mind. Inherent guilt? (why does he assume I might think his question is weird, if hes atowny and the question is legit scum hunting?)
but as I wrote the original I have no idea how easy it is to misinterpret it.

Unless someone else picks this up and runs with it, I have no idea.
However knowing the above is bollocks and he did misunderstand may be helpful to me.

@Scripten you explaining more, probably wont move much for me.

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Post Post #1413  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:04 pm

I find his answer makes absolute and reasonable sense in the context of thinking your reply was directed at the question as opposed to the subject.
I also fail to see why he would fake thinking that as scum.
I also don't think paranoia about his"terrible question" (which was not) would make him freak out - your answer was generically worded enough and grammatically vague that he could easily have taken it the way he claims.

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Post Post #1414  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:15 pm

In post 1413, Thor665 wrote:I find his answer makes absolute and reasonable sense in the context of thinking your reply was directed at the question as opposed to the subject.
I also fail to see why he would fake thinking that as scum.
I also don't think paranoia about his"terrible question" (which was not) would make him freak out - your answer was generically worded enough and grammatically vague that he could easily have taken it the way he claims.


Ta. That result that way, makes me see the process as genuine question with an actual objective, (AKA a towny like process)

Not fake thinking it, actually think it as scum but more likely as scum. hence I wanted some estimate from someone of how reasonable it was to misunderstand what I said that way.
(also not sure what I would or will make out it, but I wondered who would respond.)

Some scum, (me in the first scum games I ever played) jumped at shadows a lot. (As I was inside my head, I know that was an inherent guilt kind of thing.)
but primarily I was wanting the external feedback thinking it would make the exchange look more genuine, as inquisitive town, than I could achieve on my own.

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Post Post #1415  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:19 pm

In post 1411, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1409, Scripten wrote:That said, why would you expect a hood to change a player's direction, as you say?


discussing things in hood could from my external view, generate jumps and gaps in the flow/trajectory of a player.
any information exchange channel that i am unaware of might do that.

So might sitting down and thinking, whoops why did I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <<< bunch of graphic imagery elided as pointless and tasteless.
So if TSO is the kind of player that can sit down and think oops all by himself, then I suppose no need for another channel.


I can help out here. I don't know about the other hoods (though it would make sense for them all to operate the same way), but ours does not have daytalk, so TSO either had another avenue of communication for what you suggest or came to his conclusion independently. I'm pretty sure it's the latter. Do you disagree?

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Post Post #1416  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:21 pm

My neighborhood doesn't contain day talk either.
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Post Post #1417  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:58 pm

In post 1410, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1408, Garmr wrote:
In post 1403, AxleGreaser wrote:I did find something quite weird was going on, it was probably weird in the sense of fferlyt trajectory


There's a little problem with this theory. If it's multi scum like people keep bringing up. Then wouldn't scum be actually trying to scum hunt to so they don't have to fake it?



Sorry but no, its not actually a theory, it is an, I dont understand.

The trajectory thing is about, the posts before and after point in time not making sense to me as a sequence. Something 'feels' off like 'where did that come from'.
An external daytime communication avenue would explain my feeling, but the people in TSOs neighbourhood don't feel right.

It could also have been I was tired. I will see what happens when I poke around a bit.

Yeah if its multiball, rather lot of common tells go away. Scum can still however be faking it, as survival is stronger instinct in scum as there are fewer of them scum hunting has risks, if you personally start pinging on guys in the other scum team they may NK you as a seemingly dangerous townie. So scum in multiball (I hypothsise) still will play different, but it will be harder to find them but there will be more of them?
Also at least one multiball scum player wants to be the one scum under the radar player the other team cant find.

Not sure you thought deep enough.


Oh ok tbh Even after reading I still don't understand in depth how it applies to multiball But I'll take your word on it since fferys like a mentor to me.

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Post Post #1418  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:26 pm

In post 1415, Scripten wrote:
In post 1411, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1409, Scripten wrote:That said, why would you expect a hood to change a player's direction, as you say?


discussing things in hood could from my external view, generate jumps and gaps in the flow/trajectory of a player.
any information exchange channel that i am unaware of might do that.

So might sitting down and thinking, whoops why did I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <<< bunch of graphic imagery elided as pointless and tasteless.
So if TSO is the kind of player that can sit down and think oops all by himself, then I suppose no need for another channel.


I can help out here. I don't know about the other hoods (though it would make sense for them all to operate the same way), but ours does not have daytalk, so TSO either had another avenue of communication for what you suggest or came to his conclusion independently. I'm pretty sure it's the latter. Do you disagree?


yeah I had forgotten about the no day talk thing, I was just reaching for an explanation of the threads weird feel to me.

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Post Post #1419  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:37 pm

In post 1417, Garmr wrote:But I'll take your word on it since fferys like a mentor to me.


Err this makes no sense. I suggest you go back and think that thought again.

I talk about fferlyt trajectory in terms of failing to follow the recent thread, as a natural flow, (also as it wont have been clear so far) while TSO is in the center of that feel.
That has no (known) connection to multiball.

Once you brought up multiball, in
I did also talk about multiball and say
"Yeah if its multiball, rather lot of common tells go away. Scum can still however be faking it, as survival is stronger instinct in scum as there are fewer of them scum hunting has risks, if you personally start pinging on guys in the other scum team they may NK you as a seemingly dangerous townie. So scum in multiball (I hypothsise) still will play different, but it will be harder to find them but there will be more of them?
Also at least one multiball scum player wants to be the one scum under the radar player the other team cant find."

That bit has no "fferlyt trajectory" in it

and finally even if it did appeal to your authority is bad logic.

This is getting weird again. What kind of weird, I don't know.
As I am not pushing this exchange in any useful direction (I think I am being responsive) I suggest we stop unless you are getting something out of it.

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Post Post #1420  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:53 pm

In post 1419, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1417, Garmr wrote:But I'll take your word on it since fferys like a mentor to me.


Err this makes no sense. I suggest you go back and think that thought again.

I talk about fferlyt trajectory in terms of failing to follow the recent thread, as a natural flow, (also as it wont have been clear so far) while TSO is in the center of that feel.
That has no (known) connection to multiball.

Once you brought up multiball, in
I did also talk about multiball and say
"Yeah if its multiball, rather lot of common tells go away. Scum can still however be faking it, as survival is stronger instinct in scum as there are fewer of them scum hunting has risks, if you personally start pinging on guys in the other scum team they may NK you as a seemingly dangerous townie. So scum in multiball (I hypothsise) still will play different, but it will be harder to find them but there will be more of them?
Also at least one multiball scum player wants to be the one scum under the radar player the other team cant find."

That bit has no "fferlyt trajectory" in it

and finally even if it did appeal to your authority is bad logic.

This is getting weird again. What kind of weird, I don't know.
As I am not pushing this exchange in any useful direction (I think I am being responsive) I suggest we stop unless you are getting something out of it.


Your right it won't further the game state But I am interested in interacting with you, I find it easier to understand someone if I'm interacting with them but I guess that was a awkward attempt to start an interaction because to be honest I don't know what subject to start with and I been trying to think of something for a while. So I'm going to reach out to you for this.

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Post Post #1421  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:06 am

In post 1420, Garmr wrote:Your right it won't further the game state But I am interested in interacting with you, I find it easier to understand someone if I'm interacting with them but I guess that was a awkward attempt to start an interaction because to be honest I don't know what subject to start with and I been trying to think of something for a while. So I'm going to reach out to you for this.


That appeared to run up dead end. (no tendency to generate a reply)

Why are you "But I am interested in interacting with you,"?

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Post Post #1422  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:08 am

In post 1307, Nero Cain wrote:mod, pls change your vc style.

I will alter my style for the time being, although you should consider it a trial period.
Currently partying at the M A S Q U E R A D E -- a Large Normal for 21 revelers.

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Post Post #1423  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:16 am

Votecount 1.11

[7]PeregrineV: Egg, Thor665, Muffin, Scripten, davesaz, The Fonz, Boonskiies
[4]Thor: goodmorning, Nero Cain, flubbernugget, PeregrineV
[3]Aneninen: T S O, Garmr, Cho
[2]Scripten: Izariael, TierShift
[2]T S O: AxleGreaser, Aneninen
[1]Cho: Grayfoxxxx

[2] Not Voting: Aeronaut, hephaestus

With 21 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline: (expired on 2014-10-18 22:12:03)

Mod Notes
Consider the deadline suspended until replacements are found.

Hephaestus has been prodded. Cho and Aeronaut are still being replaced. Izariael has one or two more days given that he told me he was going to be V/LA until last Friday.
Last edited by Aegor on Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1424  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:17 am

In post 1421, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1420, Garmr wrote:Your right it won't further the game state But I am interested in interacting with you, I find it easier to understand someone if I'm interacting with them but I guess that was a awkward attempt to start an interaction because to be honest I don't know what subject to start with and I been trying to think of something for a while. So I'm going to reach out to you for this.


That appeared to run up dead end. (no tendency to generate a reply)

Why are you "But I am interested in interacting with you,"?


Because I'm unsure of what to think of you at the moment and tbh your now one of the people pushing the game and the only one I'm not sure how to read. I feel like if I figure out where to place you I could get some clarity.

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