NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

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Post Post #1450  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:49 pm

@Axle- - I took your post as saying the question was weird. but I've seen lots of weird questions, so you deciding to scumhunt Scripten based on on his question was not big deal.
You referring to the topic of his question in your answer makes sense if you read your post that way.
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Post Post #1451  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:01 pm

In post 1449, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1381, The Fonz wrote:
In post 1380, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1366, PeregrineV wrote:I could continue to argue with you, but I've seen this before. Plus, you've managed to evolve your case/vote from 376 to 477 to whatever this is supposed to be. But, like the Scripten vote, overreaction to speculation is just not a town thing.

At least now you understand my case enough to vote me over it, I suppose this is progress.
.


I feel the opposite. If PV thought you were scummy enough to vote, he should have done that a long time ago.


I actually answered this many times. If 2 scumteams, then Thor is scum.

But, his amazing inability to understand the words that are coming out of my mouth (fingers) is just too convenient for Thor to be town.


Sorry about the quote cascade - phone post.

That's not an answer to that accusation at all. Thor's behaviour hasn't changed over the last fifteen or so pages. If it's scummy now, it was scummy on page 25 or whatever.

Also, why have you never once in this argument considered what to me was the obvious reading of Thor's post - that he was sincerely mistaken about how common multiball is?

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Post Post #1452  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:07 pm

I think Scripten is town.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #1453  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:09 pm

In post 1400, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1229, T S O wrote:
In post 223, Aneninen wrote:Aaaaand fck the shyt, I had been nearly finished with my catchup when I misclicked and it's gone.
Fortunately, there are not too many things to post about.
Csareo is being Csareo right on Page2. And he goes on like that which is a null and basicly, most of the posts are related to him. In the game I linked he did the very same.
That post-pair from Nero, calling Csareo not-town and town in his next post is a WTF.
Also, need we care about those Day1/2 stuffid claims?

Unfortunately, I have no real reads yet. Mostly because of Csareo, who has been drawing away the focus of the game.
However,
@Those who're scumreading them: what's the case against TSO? What's the case against Toby? These things might be based upon real content but I'm simply too tired to distill the very little real content out of the Csareo–respond-to-Csareo–Csareo–another-respond–Csareo... rondo.

In post 241, Aneninen wrote:
In post 231, TobyLoby wrote:Anen: I mean, I'm reading what you're saying as you having seen Csareo play similarly before and he was town, but you're also calling his play here a null.


Having thought about this question (I woke up about an hour ago) I must admit, my null-read is based upon the assumption that a scum!Csareo wouldn't have a very different gameplay. (I didn't find any games which he was surely scum in.) However, in Mini#1601 (before replaced into his slot on Day1) he had done more vote and read-flipping than here. We must remember this, though this may be a sing of a kind of improvement of his gameplay.

@Thor. I re-checked TOS. He should know Csareo's gameplay well – yet he's putting too much effort into his conversation with him. Also, TSO had voted for "Caesar" and our mod posted that his vote wouldn't be counted. TSO hasn't correct his vote since then (nor did another vote), as far as I can see. These things are disturbing.

In post 250, Aneninen wrote:TSO knows how terrible Csareo is on Day1 and he also knows that he was town in that game. I simply don't understand why TSO's maintaining a long interaction with Csareo – he must have known that by getting involved in that would increase the "noise" in the thread. It's definitely anti-town and – in my opinion – scummy too.
There's something else which is merely an intuition. What if both of them are scum(s) and their Day1 is purely intentional?


Tier, do you think this is a natural progression of reads?


Hi, please explain what you find unnatural about it in a way that shows him to be scum. (or even more likely than random)

Aneninen does indeed proceed and play in way that would not be natural if you did it. That does not make him scum.


"I have no reads, can I have opinions?"
"TSO should know better than to talk with Csareo - is he scum?"
"TSO could be scum - maybe they're BOTH scum!"

It doesn't add up. And don't justify it as "he just plays weird." Doesn't wash.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #1454  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:36 pm

In post 1452, T S O wrote:I think Scripten is town.

Me too :(

UNVOTE:

Still not sure where I stand on pere vs thor.

I only have a few places where I don't want to be voting but am not sure where I DO want to be voting.

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Post Post #1455  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:37 pm

In post 1444, Aneninen wrote:
In post 1440, Garmr wrote:I believe boons soft roleclaim as I don't see why scum would do it. I will agree through his done pretty much nothing all game.

Yes, he may be a town-PR, but he may be a scum too who wants to get a "free card" for a while. I still don't understand why he softclaimed at all. (Especally since it's in contract with his post. I mean with the lack of his posts.)

@Scripten. I've checked it. Your gameplay here is very far from the one you were scum in. It's not a very strong alignment tell though. That game was a Newbie and this one is a Large Normal with 21 players and the total amount of finished games is quite low.


So, what you think he's doing if he's scum, is making a claim which will probably come out on d2/d3 and get him lynched or heavily pressured?
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #1456  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:49 pm

In post 1451, The Fonz wrote:
In post 1449, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1381, The Fonz wrote:
In post 1380, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1366, PeregrineV wrote:I could continue to argue with you, but I've seen this before. Plus, you've managed to evolve your case/vote from 376 to 477 to whatever this is supposed to be. But, like the Scripten vote, overreaction to speculation is just not a town thing.

At least now you understand my case enough to vote me over it, I suppose this is progress.
.


I feel the opposite. If PV thought you were scummy enough to vote, he should have done that a long time ago.


I actually answered this many times. If 2 scumteams, then Thor is scum.

But, his amazing inability to understand the words that are coming out of my mouth (fingers) is just too convenient for Thor to be town.


Sorry about the quote cascade - phone post.

That's not an answer to that accusation at all. Thor's behaviour hasn't changed over the last fifteen or so pages. If it's scummy now, it was scummy on page 25 or whatever.

Also, why have you never once in this argument considered what to me was the obvious reading of Thor's post - that he was sincerely mistaken about how common multiball is?


Then IF it turns out to be 2 SCUMTEAMS, then he is more than capable of explaining it then, assuming he is 1)alive, 2)not obvtown, 3)anyone cares what I posted.

Thor's behavior when I posted 501 was way less scummy than his inability to understand anything I say at post 1449. Hell, you seem to get it.
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Post Post #1457  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:52 pm

In post 1445, AxleGreaser wrote:is that answering your question, because the question is like asking, "whats looking for tells got to do with the game right now".

No, I was asking especially about the concept of Fferyllt Trajectory, not the thing you put between ""-s ^_^

In post 1446, Scripten wrote:Meta is useful, but people's playstyles change based on context and, if they are aware of their meta, they can analyze what works and what doesn't to improve their game.

Yes, I know that I'm overrating meta-information like previous games, recent activity etc. I shouldn't care about those pieces of information less. Especially since my meta looks as if I were a schizophrenic idiot right now. Or a Malkavian, lol. ^_^

In post 1455, T S O wrote:So, what you think he's doing if he's scum, is making a claim which will probably come out on d2/d3 and get him lynched or heavily pressured?

That was about Boonskiies, I think.
Well, it would depend on the role itself. Eg. claiming an FBI Agent would be absolutely unconfirmable (so, good for scum), but full-claiming it would be very bad. Same goes for eg. a 1-shot Werewolf Cop (or Red Mafia Cop, or whatever the name is). However, I can see no point of a softclaim in those cases (if the PR is real) but I can see the benefits of a scum fakeclaiming those.
Caveat: there are many other possibilities besides those two.
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Post Post #1458  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:54 pm

Yeah, but if he is deliberately pushing this, you'd assume he's decently powered.

Hence, why would he do that to himself as scum?
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #1459  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:01 pm

In I posted the following about the topic: "(7) Boonskiies's softclaim. I don't know what to think. It might have come from a newb-town (I don't think it was a good idea) or a scum who wanted to get a free pass." – My thoughts haven't changed since then. (If you were to ask whether I'd lynch him Today, my answer would be no.)
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Post Post #1460  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:23 pm

PV: NO! You still haven't answered the question of why you assumed insider knowledge rather than error.

"Most games this big have multiscum. So it's safe to assume it, therefore we can't rule out two players both being scum even if their interactions appear unlikely from teammates."

Give me literally ANY possible Thor thought process that makes even close to as much sense as the above and is compatible with your allegations.

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Post Post #1461  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:01 pm

Will post in the morning~

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Post Post #1462  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:01 pm

Will post in the morning~

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Post Post #1463  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:08 pm

Alright all, I'm catching up tonight. Mad internet issues that prevented me from posting :T They've been fixed, so I will be catching up on reading tonight and posting when possible tonight/tomorrow. I'm currently back at page... 40-ish?
I have the comprehensive ability of a vegetable.

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Post Post #1464  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:15 pm

Annnndddd... things got busy. If you scan posts on me, yes I have variable game focus. No comment beyond that. Still need to follow up on Flubber's take on Thor to see if it has any legs.

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Post Post #1465  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:27 pm

In post 1458, T S O wrote:Yeah, but if he is deliberately pushing this, you'd assume he's decently powered.

Hence, why would he do that to himself as scum?


Why would he claim so early as town?

the answer is boonskies is boonskies
however you seem keen to try and interpret his play by looking for reasons why you or someone else might do X (in this case claim)

What is special about boonskies?
Well for start
Spoiler: Thor on boonskies earlier
In post 937, Thor665 wrote:
In post 933, Boonskiies wrote:Are you suggesting that I'm policy lynch that you think I'm a fine lynch? I wasn't (still not completely) caught up with the thread so my posts couldn't have had actual content. There is absolutely no reason to lynch me other than a policy lynch at this point, so I'd like you to expand on your thought of why you feel I'd be a fine lynch please.

I find people consider policy lynch such a dirty little word...yet many of these same people defend themselves as unlynchable because they're not really providing content.

Hint - that makes it scummy. You're playing in a way to make yourself hard to lynch while also not providing help to town. That is scum play.
If it helps you disprove and dismiss my case you can call it 'policy'.
It is my policy to lynch scum.


If people purposefully play in such a way that I cant tell if they are town or scum, I lynch them or try too.

TLDR: IMO the claim thing is the claim thing, scum will either shoot it or they wont.

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Post Post #1466  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:07 pm

TLDR:
Your summary and analysis of that is abysmal.
You have not represented what Aneninen was saying,
and failed to point out why him saying those things makes him scum.

Please describe what about those posts leads you to conclude Aneninen is scum.

Showing that the above is true.

In post 1453, T S O wrote:
Spoiler: Aneninens posts that are being discussed
In post 1400, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1229, T S O wrote:
In post 223, Aneninen wrote:Aaaaand fck the shyt, I had been nearly finished with my catchup when I misclicked and it's gone.
Fortunately, there are not too many things to post about.
Csareo is being Csareo right on Page2. And he goes on like that which is a null and basicly, most of the posts are related to him. In the game I linked he did the very same.
That post-pair from Nero, calling Csareo not-town and town in his next post is a WTF.
Also, need we care about those Day1/2 stuffid claims?

Unfortunately, I have no real reads yet. Mostly because of Csareo, who has been drawing away the focus of the game.
However,
@Those who're scumreading them: what's the case against TSO? What's the case against Toby? These things might be based upon real content but I'm simply too tired to distill the very little real content out of the Csareo–respond-to-Csareo–Csareo–another-respond–Csareo... rondo.

In post 241, Aneninen wrote:
In post 231, TobyLoby wrote:Anen: I mean, I'm reading what you're saying as you having seen Csareo play similarly before and he was town, but you're also calling his play here a null.


Having thought about this question (I woke up about an hour ago) I must admit, my null-read is based upon the assumption that a scum!Csareo wouldn't have a very different gameplay. (I didn't find any games which he was surely scum in.) However, in Mini#1601 (before replaced into his slot on Day1) he had done more vote and read-flipping than here. We must remember this, though this may be a sing of a kind of improvement of his gameplay.

@Thor. I re-checked TOS. He should know Csareo's gameplay well – yet he's putting too much effort into his conversation with him. Also, TSO had voted for "Caesar" and our mod posted that his vote wouldn't be counted. TSO hasn't correct his vote since then (nor did another vote), as far as I can see. These things are disturbing.

In post 250, Aneninen wrote:TSO knows how terrible Csareo is on Day1 and he also knows that he was town in that game. I simply don't understand why TSO's maintaining a long interaction with Csareo – he must have known that by getting involved in that would increase the "noise" in the thread. It's definitely anti-town and – in my opinion – scummy too.
There's something else which is merely an intuition. What if both of them are scum(s) and their Day1 is purely intentional?


Tier, do you think this is a natural progression of reads?


Hi, please explain what you find unnatural about it in a way that shows him to be scum. (or even more likely than random)

Aneninen does indeed proceed and play in way that would not be natural if you did it. That does not make him scum.



The following is what TSO Summarises(?) Aneninens posts
Note the total absence of any sentence saying Aneninen is scum because.

In post 1453, T S O wrote:"I have no reads, can I have opinions?"

Aneninen's post is a commentary on current events, it in no way does it only say, "I have no reads." Your claim is false
It does not ask "can i have opinions" (permission?). It does ask for opinions on particular topics, which indicates to me they are the topics he is thinking about.
Your statements bear little correspondence to the text.
Lo and behold in the next post he has thought about the things indicated earlier...

"TSO should know better than to talk with Csareo - is he scum?"

That is an inaccurate oversimplification of what Aneninen said.
State how it is unreasonable for this to be a post that follows the previous one, and how that indicates that scum made them.

"TSO could be scum - maybe they're BOTH scum!"

That is an inaccurate oversimplification of what Aneninen said.
You CAPITALISING "BOTH" is the emphasis you brought to the post. it was not in his original post.
State how it is unreasonable for this to be post that follows the previous one, and how that indicates that scum made them.

It doesn't add up. And don't justify it as "he just plays weird." Doesn't wash.

So what you have utterly failed to do is meet the actual question of
why is he doing that as scum.
How is it more likely that he is more likely to be scum because you saw him make those posts.

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Post Post #1467  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:45 pm

In post 1457, Aneninen wrote:
In post 1445, AxleGreaser wrote:is that answering your question, because the question is like asking, "whats looking for tells got to do with the game right now".

No, I was asking especially about the concept of Fferyllt Trajectory, not the thing you put between ""-s ^_^


and this part
Asle "If you develop a strong enough understanding of a persons train of thought then, when they are scum, they make small private internal decisions about what to do and why.
Externally that then shows up in changes in trajectory.
Transparent town players run smooth and level."

is about "especially about the concept of Fferyllt Trajectory," and how it is relevant to every game?

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Post Post #1468  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:59 pm

@TSO is @TSO BTW.
I know that is quite clear, but ...

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Post Post #1469  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:06 am

@Axle. It seems that you too have realized that TSO is misrepresenting me ().
As for your next post: so, I think I've misunderstood the concept of Fferyllt Trajectory. I thought it is a method or something like that which could be used in certain situations, but it's a general concept. Am I right now?

Hephaestus is a lurk-scum, in my opinion. He promises posts all the time but those posts never arrive.
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Post Post #1470  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:56 am

I literally cannot describe how sick I am of you randomly asking me stuff, me responding even though I know it's a bad idea, you illogically misrepping me, and yelling I'm scum.

I won't describe anything because you lack the abilities required to actually intelligently interpret it.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #1471  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:04 am

Yeah, TSO, that post helped the town a lot. ^_^
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Post Post #1472  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:05 am

Coming from fucking you? What the fuck have you done all game?
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #1473  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:06 am

I don't really like Axle's interpretation of trajectory and I won't really be trusting it for anyone, aside from it being Axle.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #1474  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:20 am

In post 1472, T S O wrote:Coming from fucking you? What the fuck have you done all game?


Besides tunnelling me without providing a real case (...as other players have noticed it as well), what the f-ck have you done all game?

But, you know, what? Until we have new reads, let's finish posting about each other. Both of us are thinking that the other one is scum. You'd never admit, I suppose, that you're wrong. However, I never say that it's 100.00% that I'm right. I'm not afraid of getting lynched because of you; I'll flip town and that will give the town valuable infromation. I'd eagerly lynch you because I think you're scum and I'm not afraid of facing the music if I'm wrong and you flip town. But, right now we're getting nowhere. Therefore, a fight like this doesn't help the town – but helps the scums a lot! I'm not moving my vote until I find someone scummier and I suggest you doing the same.
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