NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

Flubbernugget
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Post Post #1550  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:21 am

In post 1548, Thor665 wrote:Well, a couple of those are actually quite explicit and not vague at all.
And I don't see the point you're trying to make regardless.

6. If he made a mistake he had plenty of time to at least discuss why he believed in that mistake. Instead he got dodgy - was that also a mistake on his part?

5. Which do you think is the more likely response from a town Pere who thinks he's right? How about from a scum Pere that doesn't?


If he is more focused on winning the argument what makes you think he would admit a mistake?

And either way I see you two arguing about it regardless of alignment, although the argument is more beneficial as scum.

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Post Post #1551  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:22 am

In post 1539, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1537, Flubbernugget wrote:So you have no reads or attempts to make other reads, and are perfectly fine with that?


didnt say that


Functionally, yes you did, actually.

Flubber, I don't get why you dropped this when it got a little heated. If he has no reads, he's using this tunnel on me to escape literally doing anything else. You really shouldn't be okay with that. Don't let him intimidate you.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #1552  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:27 am

My question was poorly asked. Right now, he does have reads, but I don't see any scum reads. I've brought that up.

What do you mean by him "functionally" saying he has no other reads?

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Post Post #1553  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:30 am

He says he has reads - functionally (in practice) he doesn't.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #1554  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:15 pm

In post 1520, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 1508, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1503, T S O wrote:Pere, who do you want dead today?


At this point, it will probably be me.

My vote on Scripten triggered too much for a simple vote. I'd want to lynch him.

Thor arguing like this I can see from town Thor, but the topic/reason/trigger was also insignificant. I'd lynch him. (But part of me wants to wait until multiball gets confirmed :P )

Egg for vote-parking. Unless someone can point out town-Egg doing this, classic scumtell.

Lurkers.


I'm ISO'ing your wagon right now and Muffin is probably vote parking worse than Egg yet was never mentioned.

128
303
397

He voted 3x more people than Egg.

But since you brought it up, ISOed me and CTRL+F "Muffin", what did you find?
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Post Post #1555  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:28 pm

In post 1542, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1541, Flubbernugget wrote:@thor: your case is sound and valid as far as I can tell but it's beating the rotting remains of a dead horse and cousing apathy. If you don't see any other scumtells in him (or opportunities to dig for additional scumtells) what about this particular instance do you think could in be causing something worth going on about for this long?

Ummm;

1. Because it is not causing apathy - there was apathy before I started this case and failure to create any wagons prior to it as well.
2. It cured apathy by giving us an actual wagon.
3. If I catch scum being scummy - I point that out. Whether or not you like the case does nothing to adjust that it is a valid and self-contained case.
4. I have pointed out other issues with Pere, that doesn't change what the biggest issue is.
5. Also, in case you missed it, he is playing super evasive since I started in on this - and I have been after him 100% when he does pop through, so complaining that I'm not digging is not being aware of the gamestate and annoying to me.
6. You have failed to suggest why my case isn't good enough even while now admitting it is sound and valid... :neutral: .
7. I think it's worth going after because it's a very good case and Pere is acting sketchy as regards it.


1. Your "case" is saying anything I post is scummy. You don't back it up, and apparently don't have to. Go you.
2. And complete lack of counterwagon. This indicates caught scum to you.
3. Not really. Everyone else is town. If you have any scumreads besides me, I've yet to see them. If you've found any associative tells with scum-me, I've yet to see them. You are carefully not calling anyone saying "Pere might not be scum" scummy either.
4. You linked back to your own post, basically convoluted saying that the fact I question you makes me scummy. Go you.
5. I've been pretty frank and forward, all without using Smurf language. You've been tunneling and changing your story and been pretty evasive about pretty much a single sentence I posted.
6. Your "case" is complete and utter garbage, and the fact you voted me for voting Scripten should not be lost after my flip.
7. I had a better case in Ikuraga (viewtopic.php?p=6092463#p6092463) but I recognized it's flaws (viewtopic.php?p=6096029#p6096029) because I was town. Yours has been scummed up and while not direct OMGUS, definitely reeks of it.
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Post Post #1556  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:31 pm

In post 1543, Thor665 wrote:Ooooh, and I almost forgot;

8. Your case is based around the idea "we need a counter to Pere wagon, and Thor should have had a wagon put upon him...for reasons!"

Did you fail to note what page my Pere wagon started on?
Did you fail to note that there was literally no other wagon before or since?
Yet you think the Pere wagon caused apathy even though your case could apply to anyone who started a wagon...yet there is no one else it applies to besides me?
Yeah.


8. It's at least as good if not better than yours, and if you get enough of a wagon and vigged and are town, we'll laugh in the dead thread while they lynch Egg.

Good times!
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Post Post #1557  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:33 pm

In post 1548, Thor665 wrote:Well, a couple of those are actually quite explicit and not vague at all.
And I don't see the point you're trying to make regardless.

6. If he made a mistake he had plenty of time to at least discuss why he believed in that mistake. Instead he got dodgy - was that also a mistake on his part?

5. Which do you think is the more likely response from a town Pere who thinks he's right? How about from a scum Pere that doesn't?


6. No mistake. I still believe that if there are 2 scumteams, Thor is likely scum (this was the initial thought- now that has gone up to 100% chance).

5. If I think I'm right, I say so. If I'm scum and think I'm right, I say so. If I'm wrong, then I probably say so. :wink:
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Post Post #1558  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:49 pm

In post 1550, Flubbernugget wrote:If he is more focused on winning the argument what makes you think he would admit a mistake?

He's not particularly trying to win the argument. He's dodging the argument. Frankly, if he would get up in my face and be clear I probably would have town read him more.

In post 1550, Flubbernugget wrote:And either way I see you two arguing about it regardless of alignment, although the argument is more beneficial as scum.

Meh - I don't care because that's an empty comment and should justify you voting Pere as much as voting me, so it is meaningless to this discussion and shows a lack of thought in your actions. Am I wrong?

In post 1555, PeregrineV wrote:1. Your "case" is saying anything I post is scummy. You don't back it up, and apparently don't have to. Go you.
2. And complete lack of counterwagon. This indicates caught scum to you.
3. Not really. Everyone else is town. If you have any scumreads besides me, I've yet to see them. If you've found any associative tells with scum-me, I've yet to see them. You are carefully not calling anyone saying "Pere might not be scum" scummy either.
4. You linked back to your own post, basically convoluted saying that the fact I question you makes me scummy. Go you.
5. I've been pretty frank and forward, all without using Smurf language. You've been tunneling and changing your story and been pretty evasive about pretty much a single sentence I posted.
6. Your "case" is complete and utter garbage, and the fact you voted me for voting Scripten should not be lost after my flip.
7. I had a better case in Ikuraga (viewtopic.php?p=6092463#p6092463) but I recognized it's flaws (viewtopic.php?p=6096029#p6096029) because I was town. Yours has been scummed up and while not direct OMGUS, definitely reeks of it.

1. My case isn't that, and it's funny that you think so because other people seem to understand that and FLubber is calling me scummy for *not* doing that, apparently.
2. Functionally, the only counterwagon that exists is the one trying to be formed on me - yes, that indicates scum to me.
3. I do not use associatives Day 1 prior to a flip. You are correct, I am not calling anyone calling you town scum at this point - how shockingly evil of me. :?:
4. This is a shallow and untrue statement with little relation as a response.
5. I have not changed my story - you have claimed I have and I have repeatedly noted that I have not. Why does no one else believe you if this is happening? This is a lie.
6. I voted you for having an empty vote on Scripten - I am willing to live with whatever consequences that brings upon me.
7. ...what? You're calling my vote an OMGUS of you? While also saying that I voted you for voting Scripten? I honestly do not follow this comment.

In post 1557, PeregrineV wrote:5. If I think I'm right, I say so. If I'm scum and think I'm right, I say so. If I'm wrong, then I probably say so. :wink:

That sounds like lynchable evidence to me ;)

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Post Post #1559  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:04 pm

@Pere and thor

I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.

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Post Post #1560  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:06 pm

In post 1559, Garmr wrote:I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.

:facepalm:

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Post Post #1561  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:17 pm

In post 1560, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1559, Garmr wrote:I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.

:facepalm:


No face palm on you your just filling this thread with junk and it's not fucking productive and It's starting to tick me off.

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Post Post #1562  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:21 pm

In post 1558, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1555, PeregrineV wrote:1. Your "case" is saying anything I post is scummy. You don't back it up, and apparently don't have to. Go you.
2. And complete lack of counterwagon. This indicates caught scum to you.
3. Not really. Everyone else is town. If you have any scumreads besides me, I've yet to see them. If you've found any associative tells with scum-me, I've yet to see them. You are carefully not calling anyone saying "Pere might not be scum" scummy either.
4. You linked back to your own post, basically convoluted saying that the fact I question you makes me scummy. Go you.
5. I've been pretty frank and forward, all without using Smurf language. You've been tunneling and changing your story and been pretty evasive about pretty much a single sentence I posted.
6. Your "case" is complete and utter garbage, and the fact you voted me for voting Scripten should not be lost after my flip.
7. I had a better case in Ikuraga (viewtopic.php?p=6092463#p6092463) but I recognized it's flaws (viewtopic.php?p=6096029#p6096029) because I was town. Yours has been scummed up and while not direct OMGUS, definitely reeks of it.

1. My case isn't that, and it's funny that you think so because other people seem to understand that and FLubber is calling me scummy for *not* doing that, apparently.
2. Functionally, the only counterwagon that exists is the one trying to be formed on me - yes, that indicates scum to me.
3. I do not use associatives Day 1 prior to a flip. You are correct, I am not calling anyone calling you town scum at this point - how shockingly evil of me. :?:
4. This is a shallow and untrue statement with little relation as a response.
5. I have not changed my story - you have claimed I have and I have repeatedly noted that I have not. Why does no one else believe you if this is happening? This is a lie.
6. I voted you for having an empty vote on Scripten - I am willing to live with whatever consequences that brings upon me.
7. ...what? You're calling my vote an OMGUS of you? While also saying that I voted you for voting Scripten? I honestly do not follow this comment.


1. Players can "agree" with you without reading or understanding your "case". You know lazy town does it as well as scum. You've not questioned anyone about their understanding of your "case" except me, and I've said I don't see it. Flubber giving it actual attention means he's probably seeing the same issues with it.

2. Get real, it's not a counterwagon and you know it.

3. Your certainty that I'm scum- is it a "safe assumption", stronger than that, or weaker than that? :cool:

4. I asked you to explain it like I was 6 (),
Spoiler: Your answer
In post 1226, Thor665 wrote:viewtopic.php?p=6270527#p6270527


5. Sure you did.
Spoiler: Post 1366
In post 1366, PeregrineV wrote:I could continue to argue with you, but I've seen this before. Plus, you've managed to evolve your case/vote from to to whatever this is supposed to be. But, like the Scripten vote, overreaction to speculation is just not a town thing.


6. And haven't really explained why in the context of

7. Read #5 Evolving Cases. Then,
Spoiler: Read this
In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:19. Thor665- early townread, but then downhill (slowly) from there, as he votes opposite my opinion. Kind of used to that, so not a full on scumread for that at this point.
The worst Thor post was calling this game multiball ( and ) for pretty much no reason (because it's 21 players?!?). Should there turn out to be 2 scumteams, I'll probably strongly advocate for a Thor lynch. Until then, I'll go back and forth with and about him trying to figure out if he is town that I just don't get or scum trying to trick me. Always fun. :]

In post 1107, Thor665 wrote:It is inherently unscummy because there is no suggested inside knowledge in the comment and also the comment flowed naturally from the conversation I was having at the time suggesting no strange focus on multiball either - ergo, it was a natural comment to make and also showed no inside knowledge.


In post 1557, PeregrineV wrote:5. If I think I'm right, I say so. If I'm scum and think I'm right, I say so. If I'm wrong, then I probably say so. :wink:

That sounds like lynchable evidence to me ;)

:P
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Post Post #1563  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:24 pm

In post 1559, Garmr wrote:@Pere and thor

I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.


Each person focussed on certain aspects of my reads they did not like, and then we talked about it.

I've given my reads, not changed much. Look at my wagon, the reasons people are on it, and any back and forth between me and them (except Thor- which you've indicated you read).

Just so we know you DO understand, what is Thor's "case" on me?
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Post Post #1564  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:43 pm

In post 1563, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1559, Garmr wrote:@Pere and thor

I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.


Each person focussed on certain aspects of my reads they did not like, and then we talked about it.

I've given my reads, not changed much. Look at my wagon, the reasons people are on it, and any back and forth between me and them (except Thor- which you've indicated you read).

Just so we know you DO understand, what is Thor's "case" on me?


In post 374, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 370, Thor665 wrote:I don't think you get to naked vote at this stage of the game - reads and thoughts please.


It's not naked, it's more an acceptance that Izraeil probably knows better than I at this point, and last time I thought they were scum, ignored them, and we lost.

Of course, an actual read will give me a better idea. Is there a reason you think he is particularly town?


It started because you sheeped Izareal right. The fact you pretty much started the game around 1:18 am my time in post 366 and then voted scrip in post 369 (damn she fine :P) just a mere 30 mins latter means you probably just gave the 14 pages a quick read saw some one you thought was towny and sheeped there vote because you were lazy. It's not the best thing to do as town but it's understandable and not a big omg his scum thing.

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Post Post #1565  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:52 pm

In post 1564, Garmr wrote:
In post 1563, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1559, Garmr wrote:@Pere and thor

I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.


Each person focussed on certain aspects of my reads they did not like, and then we talked about it.

I've given my reads, not changed much. Look at my wagon, the reasons people are on it, and any back and forth between me and them (except Thor- which you've indicated you read).

Just so we know you DO understand, what is Thor's "case" on me?


In post 374, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 370, Thor665 wrote:I don't think you get to naked vote at this stage of the game - reads and thoughts please.


It's not naked, it's more an acceptance that Izraeil probably knows better than I at this point, and last time I thought they were scum, ignored them, and we lost.

Of course, an actual read will give me a better idea. Is there a reason you think he is particularly town?


It started because you sheeped Izareal right. The fact you pretty much started the game around 1:18 am my time in post 366 and then voted scrip in post 369 (damn she fine :P) just a mere 30 mins latter means you probably just gave the 14 pages a quick read saw some one you thought was towny and sheeped there vote because you were lazy. It's not the best thing to do as town but it's understandable and not a big omg his scum thing.


lol

What about his current reasons?
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Post Post #1566  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:04 pm

In post 1565, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1564, Garmr wrote:
In post 1563, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1559, Garmr wrote:@Pere and thor

I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.


Each person focussed on certain aspects of my reads they did not like, and then we talked about it.

I've given my reads, not changed much. Look at my wagon, the reasons people are on it, and any back and forth between me and them (except Thor- which you've indicated you read).

Just so we know you DO understand, what is Thor's "case" on me?


In post 374, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 370, Thor665 wrote:I don't think you get to naked vote at this stage of the game - reads and thoughts please.


It's not naked, it's more an acceptance that Izraeil probably knows better than I at this point, and last time I thought they were scum, ignored them, and we lost.

Of course, an actual read will give me a better idea. Is there a reason you think he is particularly town?


It started because you sheeped Izareal right. The fact you pretty much started the game around 1:18 am my time in post 366 and then voted scrip in post 369 (damn she fine :P) just a mere 30 mins latter means you probably just gave the 14 pages a quick read saw some one you thought was towny and sheeped there vote because you were lazy. It's not the best thing to do as town but it's understandable and not a big omg his scum thing.


lol

What about his current reasons?


Tbh I stopped reading them after I lost intreast so I lost track of them

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Post Post #1567  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:20 pm

Jesus 30 pages to catch up on. I'll try to find something substantial tonight. Anything in particular I should keep an eye out for when I skim through?

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Post Post #1568  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:32 pm

In post 1554, PeregrineV wrote:128
303
397

He voted 3x more people than Egg.

But since you brought it up, ISOed me and CTRL+F "Muffin", what did you find?


I ISO'd Muffin. His vote isn't sitting for as long as Egg's, but Egg pushed you several times after his vote, and made stronger pushes than Muffin. Both votes are equally "stale" IMO.

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Post Post #1569  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:34 pm

Same here, I'm still catching up from my absence earlier. I suspect I will be chronically behind until Saturday due to the activity of a large...

For what it's worth, as of page 50 I still think the PeregrineV wagon is lame and should be looking for a new target to pressure. Peregrine's behavior is identical to his town play from my previous game with him, to the point where I can pretty much predict what he's gonna say before I even read his posts. Pretty strong town vibes there, so unless something changes in the remaining 13 pages he's a will-not-vote from me.

UNVOTE: Scripten

Will update my vote this weekend once fully caught up and able to contribute on a fuller scale.
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Post Post #1570  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:40 pm

In post 1559, Garmr wrote:@Pere and thor

I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.


How could you be falling asleep with the argument when Thor created a wagon from it!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

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Post Post #1571  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:46 pm

In post 1558, Thor665 wrote:Meh - I don't care because that's an empty comment and should justify you voting Pere as much as voting me, so it is meaningless to this discussion and shows a lack of thought in your actions. Am I wrong?


I had a better chance of changing the gamestate with a vote for you over PV.

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Post Post #1572  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:48 pm

Actually, not really. At all.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #1573  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:01 pm

In post 1568, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 1554, PeregrineV wrote:128
303
397

He voted 3x more people than Egg.

But since you brought it up, ISOed me and CTRL+F "Muffin", what did you find?


I ISO'd Muffin. His vote isn't sitting for as long as Egg's, but Egg pushed you several times after his vote, and made stronger pushes than Muffin. Both votes are equally "stale" IMO.


But Egg has pushed nothing else. And his initial vote was vague.

Muffin hasn't done much more since
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Post Post #1574  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:02 pm

In post 1570, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 1559, Garmr wrote:@Pere and thor

I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.


How could you be falling asleep with the argument when Thor created a wagon from it!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


The wagon is meh a few of my town reads are on it but some of the other players aren't the towniest bunch (scriptian,davesaz and muffin) Fuck tbh I would like to see muffin hang from a rope today or viged if we have one.

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