NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

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Post Post #1975  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:39 pm

In post 1971, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1968, Slandaar wrote:I find it believable that if you have a certain experience with games going a certain way you would think others with similar experience levels would think similarly, thus you not doing so when he thinks you would think similar to him appears scummy to him.

But it didn't in that way.
He said it was scummy if there were two scum teams. But if there was one scum team it would not be scummy.


Considering a time back near the start of the argument.

Um yep, thats the way the claimed evidence worked....

A reason a player might think/know its multiball is if that players scum PM implied it. (aka it said: You are Blue Mafia)
A player might slip that knowledge (forget why they know that) and be more sure it is multi-ball than they should be.

If it turns out not to be multiball(2 scum?), then it is not possible that the player had TMI and slipped.

If its not TMI, then the situation, PereV initially felt unlikely

(A player with no inside info would think and say "safe to assume"(overly statistically confident) MB.)
actually happened.

evidence it is not multiball(red/blue scum teams) proves you did not TMI slip.

(although you could be SK, as an SK would know there is also a scum team, but PereV did not i believe count hat in his and the wikis notion of multiball.)

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Post Post #1976  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:41 pm

In post 1972, Muffin wrote:Can you explain this a little more please? The struck-through text confuses me.

The point I was making there is she was calling rolefishing scummy but saying scum wouldn't try to lynch claimed PR's because it's too obvious but rolefishing is also very obvious. So saying one is scummy and one isn't is terrible as they are essentially the same argument.

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Post Post #1977  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:42 pm

In post 1969, Aneninen wrote:
In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:The , vote for GoodMorning is terrible, as for its reasoning. Everyone: check that out, also the #s of the posts!!!

Whats terrible about it?


I've highlighted them, see below. (As far as I know he didn't have a game with Csareo before. TSO had. Why don't you scumread him too?)
Also, the quotes you'd made proved nothing.

In post 1917, Slandaar wrote:I think Thor and PV are both town.
Lets lynch someone else.
Vote: GoodMorning
GM is good as scum so she hasn't made any huge mistakes or slips and this makes it hard to make an argument against her but her tone doesn't feel right and she never seems to have much point to what she says. :]
But seriously; The way she acted during Csareo's time was incredibly scummy. She asked him multitudes of questions and argued lots of what he said because it was easy. It looks good when you argue with someone like Csareo because you will always win and thus come out looking good but at the same time she wasn't pushing the wagon or really doing anything with the questions she asked or points she disputed. You can see this later where she never again questions anyone to such an extent, take Thor she never questions him.


You need to explain why the parts you underlined are scummy, or you will never get anyone to join this wagon you want to start.

Also,

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:(By the way, did he want to derail the PeregrineV wagon in ? We should remember that later!)

Yep I want to derail PV wagon.

Derail? Isn't that word used for a scum-action? To derail a wagon of a scumbuddy?

Words have fluid meanings that differ from person to person. You will not ever catch scum in this manner outside of the newbie queue.

FWIW I find your case on Slandaar to be very lacking.
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Post Post #1978  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:43 pm

In post 1976, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1972, Muffin wrote:Can you explain this a little more please? The struck-through text confuses me.

The point I was making there is she was calling rolefishing scummy but saying scum wouldn't try to lynch claimed PR's because it's too obvious but rolefishing is also very obvious. So saying one is scummy and one isn't is terrible as they are essentially the same argument.

ok
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Post Post #1979  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:44 pm

Here:
In post 1969, Aneninen wrote:GM is good as scum so she hasn't made any huge mistakes or slips and this makes it hard to make an argument against her but her tone doesn't feel right

Aneninen has just highlighted my impression of GM.

This is scum. He clearly has not paid attention to GM at all yet is calling her town.(they are buddies)
GM is scum.

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Post Post #1980  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:45 pm

I mean this is stonewall stuff.

Lets move. Lynch GM.

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Post Post #1981  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:47 pm

let me read gm's iso real quick
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Post Post #1982  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:53 pm

Eh maybe it isn't a buddy tell.

It's an Aneninen is definitely scum tell. That defence of GM requires better knowledge of her posts than he has. He had no clue why GM was voting Thor, none, if you did you know what I was doing there.

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Post Post #1983  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:08 pm

So why aren't you voting Aneninen? I'd get on that wagon. I'm not comfortable calling goodmorning scum at this point, though.

I think your argument is logical but predicated on internal consistencies that may or may not exist. Townies do scummy/irrational shit all the time.
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Post Post #1984  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:10 pm

remembering that I still want your babies. (and my perspective is little skewed by RL)

In post 1976, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1972, Muffin wrote:Can you explain this a little more please? The struck-through text confuses me.

The point I was making there is she was calling rolefishing scummy but saying scum wouldn't try to lynch claimed PR's because it's too obvious but rolefishing is also very obvious. So saying one is scummy and one isn't is terrible as they are essentially the same argument.

Yep. I don't like it when player with the ability, does not use it (selectively). Players do have off games so I need to be careful with that.
However that looks like two different levels in quite close proximity. (I need to check for purpose, aka I didn't yet)

In post 1979, Slandaar wrote:Here:
In post 1969, Aneninen wrote:GM is good as scum so she hasn't made any huge mistakes or slips and this makes it hard to make an argument against her but her tone doesn't feel right

Aneninen has just highlighted my impression of GM.

This is scum. He clearly has not paid attention to GM at all yet is calling her town.(they are buddies)
GM is scum.


That post didn't fee like the usual Aneninen to me. When I read him in the past. He occasionally does go weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
(So it doesnt toally sway me)

In post 1980, Slandaar wrote:I mean this is stonewall stuff.

Lets move. Lynch GM.


but as for stonewalling, yeah this game feels like a single ball game to me, too much stonewalling.

So how is getting that case from TSO going?
Has he decided you are tunnelling him too?

Someone chainsawing/wking, my read doesn't make my read stronger.

PEdit:
In post 1982, Slandaar wrote:Eh maybe it isn't a buddy tell.

It's an Aneninen is definitely scum tell. That defence of GM requires better knowledge of her posts than he has. He had no clue why GM was voting Thor, none, if you did you know what I was doing there.


ahh, you got there first.

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Post Post #1985  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:16 pm

Here's something interesting though:

GM doesn't comment on Aneninen townreading me
In post 863, Aneninen wrote:...

Muffin – Not too much content but it seems that he's doing real scumhunting. Lean town.

But does have a problem with davesaz townreading me
In post 945, goodmorning wrote:...
In post 936, davesaz wrote:FWIW, going through reviews of various players. I reviewed some posts of Muffin. I would call this town with some pretty good confidence.

...really?

That's incredibly weak. Muffin has been asking easy questions and flying low, and you want to call that Town?
...

In that same post she really seems to be treating Aneninen with the kid gloves.
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Post Post #1986  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:19 pm

oh shit:
In post 945, goodmorning wrote:
In post 928, Thor665 wrote:If it's a reaction on me - I was planning to ignore you other than to occasionally point out how your vote is useless and that you don't appear to be scumhunting in any functional way at all.

GOLLY GEE MISTER

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU FIGURED ME OUT

I don't have any real need to question anyone at the moment. Reads are forming based on reading, it's all quite fun.

In post 935, Muffin wrote:
In post 927, goodmorning wrote:On Thor is mostly a tone-based read as I think I've made clear.

Is that the best you can come up with?

Were you expecting Thor to fuck up bad? Because I'm not. You may have noticed he's good at this game. He's not going to make any pushes he doesn't think he can justify, he's not going to overstretch his hand, and with this being a Large there's plenty of room to hide in.

I figure if I keep on about it then by the time we hit D9 he'll get lynched. Of course, if he gets NK'd then great, I can move on.

In post 936, davesaz wrote:FWIW, going through reviews of various players. I reviewed some posts of Muffin. I would call this town with some pretty good confidence.

...really?

That's incredibly weak. Muffin has been asking easy questions and flying low, and you want to call that Town?

In post 938, Aneninen wrote:@Goodmorning. What exactly do you want to "reach" with that vote? If you don't provide a case against Thor, I doubt anyone might follow your vote. I also doubt that Thor will be "scared" of your vote.

I don't know what you mean with the first question. To the latter stuff:
In post 927, goodmorning wrote:On Thor is mostly a tone-based read as I think I've made clear. I don't expect anyone to believe/follow me and I'm fine with that (to all others who asked).

If I was trying to scare Thor, I would have wasted a couple days constructing a massive case full of bullshit and yelled it at people until they believed me. It turns out that if you repeat yourself often enough, no matter how many times you get discredited, SOME PEOPLE WILL STILL BELIEVE YOU.
I find that incredible, but it's true. It's happened to me enough times.

I find that Garmr has affirmed himself out of the uncomfortable list.

Barring vig, why would a scum player get vigged? Is this gm slipping that she knows thor is town?

That phrase really pinged for me.

oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god indecision
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Post Post #1987  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:30 pm

In post 1960, Garmr wrote:
In post 1955, T S O wrote:Fucking fine.

Vote: PeregrineV

If that'll get you off my fucking back, great.


How to shatter a town read by tso.

Garmr is town, probs.
In post 1969, Aneninen wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:Slandaar – What kind of catch-up was that?

I read nearly 2000 posts in 2 days what did you expect me to do? write a bunch of walls aswell? do you want players who are caught up and know whats going on or ones who write a wall take 5 hours to read 10 pages and never catch up?

"It wanted to be looked like a catchup but it failed the" kind of.

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:I told you who needs to be lynched today; GM.

That's a brilliant idea. In another game, perhaps.

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:Quoting a #180-ish post then jumping to #1700 so as to comment on the TSO-Nero interaction?

Yes? I read the recent couple pages while reading the rest? What is the issue with that?

You could have asked questions. You did not.

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:As if there had been nothing more interesting. Pretty of nulls next. is an evasion plus a speculation (which feels to include "inside information" – that's just an intuition, though).

That isn't my post.

I meant . (Are you here, TSO? Here's something for you! It's impossible to type 60 instead of 54 by mistake so that must have been a scumslip. If you divide 1860 by 1854 you get 1,00367187909 if you miscalculate it and those numbes show the players who are planned to be Nightkilled, in alphabetical order.)

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:The , vote for GoodMorning is terrible, as for its reasoning. Everyone: check that out, also the #s of the posts!!!

Whats terrible about it?


I've highlighted them, see below. (As far as I know he didn't have a game with Csareo before. TSO had. Why don't you scumread him too?)
Also, the quotes you'd made proved nothing.

In post 1917, Slandaar wrote:I think Thor and PV are both town.
Lets lynch someone else.
Vote: GoodMorning
GM is good as scum so she hasn't made any huge mistakes or slips and this makes it hard to make an argument against her but her tone doesn't feel right and she never seems to have much point to what she says. :]
But seriously; The way she acted during Csareo's time was incredibly scummy. She asked him multitudes of questions and argued lots of what he said because it was easy. It looks good when you argue with someone like Csareo because you will always win and thus come out looking good but at the same time she wasn't pushing the wagon or really doing anything with the questions she asked or points she disputed. You can see this later where she never again questions anyone to such an extent, take Thor she never questions him.



In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:(By the way, did he want to derail the PeregrineV wagon in ? We should remember that later!)

Yep I want to derail PV wagon.

Derail? Isn't that word used for a scum-action? To derail a wagon of a scumbuddy?

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:It's good to know you are scum though.


[spoiler=]Image
POOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!


You are nervous. Very nervous. Scummy-nervous.

VOTE: Slandaar[/spoiler]

This is definitely below the level I'd expect town-aneninen to sink. I might want to lynch this.

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Post Post #1988  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:36 pm

fuck it

not ready to lynch goodmorning yet, but have been getting less and less confident pere will flip scum

UNVOTE:
VOTE: aneninen
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Post Post #1989  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:43 pm

VOTE: aneninen

I can get on with removing this piece of noisy nonsense spammer.
Who might flip scum.

And since he started quoting instead of italicising, I can actually read his posts! They make me want to lynch!

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Post Post #1990  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:09 pm

Nero alt here. On vla till I feel better

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Post Post #1991  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:53 pm

In post 1974, Slandaar wrote:I mean is it good reasoning? no, but do you think Peregrine with his experience makes this argument unless he believes it?

The thing is that he didn't want to. He tossed it out - I zeroed in on it, and he tried to re-phrase the situation.
So, no, I don't think he'd do it unless he believed it - I also don't think he believes it and didn't want to get into it and regrets tossing it in as a way to fluff up a fake read.

In post 1986, Muffin wrote:Barring vig, why would a scum player get vigged? Is this gm slipping that she knows thor is town?

That phrase really pinged for me.

oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god indecision

I find GM scummy and I am highly unimpressed by this as a case and think it borders on misrep.
I am sad Tiershift followed it.

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Post Post #1992  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:00 pm

In post 1960, Garmr wrote:
In post 1955, T S O wrote:Fucking fine.

Vote: PeregrineV

If that'll get you off my fucking back, great.


How to shatter a town read by tso.


Shit like this is why I really don't like Thor's wagon.

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Post Post #1993  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:05 pm

In post 1943, Thor665 wrote:What are your reads, currently?

@Flubber - as long as you're bemoaning things, how about you also address this question? Thanks.

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Post Post #1994  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:06 pm

Also, functionally you should say 'Pere's wagon'.

Though I agree the Thor wagon is a joke.

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Post Post #1995  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:07 pm

In post 1986, Muffin wrote:Barring vig, why would a scum player get "nightkilled"? Is this gm slipping that she knows thor is town?
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Post Post #1996  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:07 pm

ebwop
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Post Post #1997  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:08 pm

In post 1921, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1920, goodmorning wrote:Nobody else has made a point that someone hasn't asked them to clarify, besides which I hardly ever question people like that. I love when it happens though, it's great for reading people, getting down into their thought processes and watching them tick.

So you feel good about how everyone else has answered those questions?

Well, primarily the stances that I could be able to question-clarify in this way would be yours on Pere and Anen/Axle on TSO.
I don't want to question you on Pere because I think you'd turn it into an argument, and that would defeat the purpose.
I don't want to question Anen/Axle on TSO because I don't hate myself enough.
It's less me feeling good about people asking and answering and more me having very good reasons not to ask.

In post 1920, goodmorning wrote:
In post 1918, Thor665 wrote:@Goodmorning - as long as we're discussing things, I would like to see you analyze the Thor wagon as it currently exists and express your thoughts on its current movement and what you think about it.

If you're asking me for any kind of VCA... I don't do that. If you're asking me to discuss the stated reasoning for each vote on your wagon and whether that looks kosher then I'll ask you to do the same for the Pere wagon.
Just let me know which it is.

I have already done that for the Pere wagon.
Yes, I'd love to see you do it for mine.

Alright, it's on the list. I'm at home all day tomorrow so...

In post 1925, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1920, goodmorning wrote:I wasn't questioning him to win an argument. I was questioning him to clarify his stance on TSO. I wasn't questioning him to build a case on him. I was questioning him to attempt to read him.

If you find this valuable, asking people lots of questions to help attain a read, why have you not done this with anyone else?

The situation has to be right. Also the reasons addressed above.

In post 1920, goodmorning wrote:You're kidding me. The rolefishing set is aimed at a single newb newb newb player (who actually tried to rolefish). The second set is thinking of a hypothetical reasonably experienced set of Scum (who are apparently not taking the "lynch Boonskiies" action).
Of course I'm thinking on different levels - one of them is labelled "Inexperience Challenged."

So, what you actually asked a newbie was: Why would a hypothetical reasonably experienced set of scum try to lynch PR's?

How is a newbie supposed to know what reasonably experienced scum do or don't do?

I don't think that is what you were asking.

...what.

No, I addressed the concept of rolefishing, an event that actually occurred, with a newbie. I addressed the concept of lynching a claimed PR, an event that was purely hypothetical, with you, who are not a newbie. How in the fuck did you get the interpretation you got out of that???

In post 1928, davesaz wrote:Wait, what newbie was GM asking a question of?

I wasn't. Slandaar is attempting to sow confusion.

@GM, same question, how do you define newbie?

A player who is new.

In post 1937, davesaz wrote:How about something more specific than that. # games? # months? Behavior?

It's pretty hard to be specific, but behaviour, pretty much. Newbishness tends to stick out like a sore thumb.

In post 1986, Muffin wrote:Barring vig, why would a scum player get vigged? Is this gm slipping that she knows thor is town?

No, gm is slipping that she's not 100% confident in a mostly tone-based read. WHAT A SHOCK

If it makes anyone feel better, I stopped reading Anen's and Axle's posts a long time ago. Skim over them but if I'm not mentioned nothing sticks.

Can we notice what Slandaar's done so far? He's tunneled me with theory questions and got into the multiball discussion, neither of which is particularly productive. Someone who thinks he's Town: why?
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Post Post #1998  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:13 pm

In post 1963, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1959, Garmr wrote:dave-I misread the whole goodmorning thing as well which was a bigger factor as why I scum read him but you have to admit the way he handled you and pere was a bad jump onto it. After he does a lot of theory talk about if pere is scum that there must be scum in the neighborhoods goes in depth about it. That really isn't solid reasoning.

Again - do you exect more from Davetown? Because if you don't, all you're really managing to say here is 'scumhunting looks weak' well...does Dave scumhunt strongly in your experience?
Look at what he's saying and doing, the people he's talking to and what he's saying. He is coming across as very honest to me right now and your raised issue with him is, basically, sloppy wagon transition...which even i it is a scumtell is more of a poor play tell, and at that point you should be assessing him as a newer player anyway in which case the case becomes weaker unless you know him to be better than this.
Do you?

In post 1959, Garmr wrote:script-was my weaker reads of the three and the only one you agreed slightly intreasting.

Actually no it's not unless you take it somewhere.

In post 1959, Garmr wrote:muffin- I stick to my points on this and that dustop that involves "explain your read,Is that the best,there's a better vote if that's all,link some some shit" yep real riviting stuff from muffin.

Do you not think I showed him having willingness to do original attacks?
If I did - then why is him sheeping me proof of cowardly scum - which is your currently advanced case?

Let simplify this I haven't looked into daves meta I barely do that unless asked to and no I don't know him. Script well I got nothing why it's interesting I just thought it was interesting. I don't see your point on muffin how does sheeping you and throwing post that don't advance the case a town action.
In post 1959, Garmr wrote:3.
From my view point his got caught up with your wall. But the fact his recent post his brought up egg,muffin and scriptian so it's not all about you and I think his done a little. But the way you act around him got him caught up on you not sure if you realize you have that effect sometimes (remember you and slandaar in the game we were a scum team you didn't even mean for that wall to happen.)



You're saying a lot of words here and I'm not really buying it.
Sure, I will agree that Pere (and myself) are prone to wall wars.
That said, *during* the wall wars I was able to still discuss other people and events, Pere was not.
Prior to the wall war I was able to discuss other people and events, and Pere said basically nothing.
After the wall war...well, heck, Pere has basically lurked out and cast an empty vote and you're even mentioning that as though he's somehow discussed Scripten - no, he hasn't. Why do you think he has?

I don't think any of this weakens my point that he appears to not be scumhunting.
Can you clarify why you think I'm wrong here?

In post 1959, Garmr wrote:It became a way to debate your statistic into a surefire thing. I don't understand this transtion.

I don't see how this matters one way or the other, myself.


meh it may be weird filter but that ticks way more than the reason you gave and it's still not enough that i would consider him scum.

In all honesty I can't clarify were your wrong. I was under the impression he did but after going through his iso he really only talked to them about the case between you and him.

I'm going to be honest thor from your latest post I feel like your tying to control me and I don't like that. Unlike tso I'm not so easily bullied into things.

But guess what there's finally a wagon I'm happy that's picking up

UNVOTE: axle
VOTE: aneninen

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Post Post #1999  (ISO)  » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:40 pm

In post 1886, Garmr wrote:@axle oh well the misunderstanding caused me to meta tso which is a positive thing.


If TSO is “so easily bullied into things.”

In post 1998, Garmr wrote:Unlike tso I'm not so easily bullied into things.


What did this post mean and why?

In post 1960, Garmr wrote:
In post 1955, T S O wrote:Fucking fine.

Vote: PeregrineV

If that'll get you off my fucking back, great.


How to shatter a town read by tso.

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