NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #2028 (isolation #200) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:37 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2026, T S O wrote:case is up in next 2 days.



Please remember that your case supposedly existed (in your mind) a long long time ago,
and when it now hits the thread it really ought find the
plenty
of scummy things he did way back when you claimed he did them...
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Post Post #2029 (isolation #201) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:38 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2027, T S O wrote:Tier, what are your feelings on Axle?


he probably doesnt want my babies.

exactly how VLA are you?
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Post Post #2032 (isolation #202) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:30 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2014, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1843, AxleGreaser wrote:That however does not stop him, refusing point blank to talk people. That rather large glaring internal inconsistency. Townies tend not to do things they despise, especially when those things are inherently scummy and anti town.

Lynch TSO Today


I've had these feelings before when playing with TSO. Yet, he somehow ends up the scum NK night1 or 2. I have yet to figure it out, but you might try pushing it once there is actual evidence or in a few game days to see if he ups his contribution.


So tell me about these feelings you have had about him before

and what your feelings are about him this game.

(yeah I know it sounds like couch, tell me about your childhood thing, but no really tell me)
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Post Post #2035 (isolation #203) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:17 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1991, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1974, Slandaar wrote:I mean is it good reasoning? no, but do you think Peregrine with his experience makes this argument unless he believes it?

The thing is that he didn't want to. He tossed it out - I zeroed in on it, and he tried to re-phrase the situation.
So, no, I don't think he'd do it unless he believed it - I also don't think he believes it and didn't want to get into it and regrets tossing it in as a way to fluff up a fake read.


Hi
In C++ there are strict rules about operator precedence, English as a language sucks. I don't parse yours. (yeah PKB: blush.)
(after the '-' it looks little like you kept adding bits on the end with conjunctions until it felt how you wanted it to. Guess how I learned to recognise that problem. :( )

Is the following true?
Thor don't think PereV(he'd) do it unless (PereV)he believed "it" -

As its a fact he did "it" you seemingly must think he believes the value of the tell he used (whether he is town or scum?)

I suspect its not, what you are trying to be saying.

Is there a concept missing?
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Post Post #2069 (isolation #204) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:48 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2047, goodmorning wrote:There's a reason that we call transparency of thought process pro-Town.



really do tell
/sarcasm not @you well maybe but not.
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Post Post #2071 (isolation #205) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:51 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2051, T S O wrote:Axle, does it ever get boring when someone
keeps
ignoring you and you keep posting stuff to them anyway?

Because to me it looks like a handy way to look busy.



you mean like everytime I ignore you not putting up, being not transparent and not protown?
and you just go on doing it?
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Post Post #2072 (isolation #206) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:55 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2071, AxleGreaser wrote:posting stuff to them anyway?


also did you even check what fraction of my recent posts are
to you
, or did you just decide to make this shit up too?
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Post Post #2073 (isolation #207) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:07 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2058, Thor665 wrote:He said it in reference to the Neighborhood QTs - not a Scum QT.


also dont forget the possibility of Axle just fucking up.

Its foggy as hell, but when () I was (probably)'reminded' there was no day talk in neighbourhoods, I believe there was already at least implied info in the thread earlier there was no day Talk.
Id seen it and forgotten it. (I think PereV, mentioned whod posted when and
why
in his hood, and I think it was earlier)

perhaps that is a town tell that I was really trying to think about stuff.
Lack of the other knowledge not >so much< (but maybe if you really wanna believe it)
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Post Post #2082 (isolation #208) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:21 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

VOTE: PeregrineV
UNVOTE: PeregrineV
..
VOTE: TSO
VOTE: TSO

/sarcasm
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Post Post #2086 (isolation #209) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:29 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2083, T S O wrote:no-one gives a fuck if you vote me


You really dont read well.

no one gives fuck that you voted Pere for 8 seconds
until someone pointed out it was yuk.
and.... (tick tick whir)
Then you remembered Oh yeah I am supposed to be thinking Aneninen is scum for actual reasons....;

Well actually some might, but not much of a fuck.
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Post Post #2088 (isolation #210) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:33 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2085, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2084, TierShift wrote:Why are you so certain in your townread on me gm?

We've just come out of that game in which you were Scum. It's rooted in that.


and you've never seen anyone roll scum twice in row, and think, <hmmm I had better play this one very differently?>

or

<gee I played crap in the last one I did this this and this wrong...>

now thats transparency, I know exactly what your thinking and why GM.
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Post Post #2097 (isolation #211) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:39 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@GARMR

In post 1908, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1856, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1851, Garmr wrote:Because Tso is being Tso.


also I am a little intrigued.

When Aneninen said that is just Bonnskies being Boonskies he was referring to a thing that happened.

Your statement seems to be more open ended. (aka:
Do you think the whole TSO filter is TSO being TSO?
)

Is that an unequivocal town read by you on TSO as, TSO is being TSO
?
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Post Post #2107 (isolation #212) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:05 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2106, Garmr wrote:
In post 2097, AxleGreaser wrote:
@GARMR

In post 1908, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1856, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1851, Garmr wrote:Because Tso is being Tso.


also I am a little intrigued.

When Aneninen said that is just Bonnskies being Boonskies he was referring to a thing that happened.

Your statement seems to be more open ended. (aka:
Do you think the whole TSO filter is TSO being TSO?
)

Is that an unequivocal town read by you on TSO as, TSO is being TSO
?

It was meant to be used in way to see if you follow your opinion or if you were just a hypocrite. You seemed fine in annenin saying boon is boon with out saying an example yet you wanted me to use a example for tso. I was testing you to see if you would follow through with your logic. You tried a to find a way to justify why anneienn example was ok and why mine wasn't which seemed off to me.

So in short i was testing you


I did/do know what you were 'doing', its what you were forgetting/ignoring that intrigued me.

So that seems like it is is a no, you said things you dont quite fully believe to be true.
If I had not seen where your 'test'
(if your town trap if youre scum)
was going at
and played into it at
I might well have reacted 'badly' (in your eyes) to that aspect. (bad test is bad)

hint: when you are testing me make sure you say what you think.

I now to some degree, see you as having more faith in TSO alignment than can be justified.

It leaked either as its a towny with a faith that based on stuff I dont know, (you know things about his meta I dont)
or its scum leaking...
or your were so excited about (focussed on) your test, you forgot you also dont know other peoples alignments and got creative.

mainly meh.
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Post Post #2108 (isolation #213) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:25 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2105, Thor665 wrote:Oh, maybe Fonz was scumhunting people by not interacting with them?
I hear that's a thing.


OH shit, you mean TSO is scum hunting me!
I think I am bad at this game. (no need to agree, well take that as a given thing)

(expired on 2014-10-23 05:28:00)
I can only imagine his next dastardly move will be to not post case! or indeed especially not any of the plenty of reasons at all
In post 2026, T S O wrote:
Vote: Aneninen


case is up in next 2 days.
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Post Post #2111 (isolation #214) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:26 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2109, Garmr wrote:Tso has been in more of my games than any other player. If it wasn't for that jump onto the pere wagon I wouldn't of put him to null. But talking about leaks aren't you scum reading tso this gives off the impression you think his town?


Nope:
you can be scum with him and be sure of his alignment,
and hence it not be a 'question' for you. (hence there would be no cognitive dissonance,
when you
stopped
wondering about his alignment
and said overly simply
TSO is TSO
, because you know as his scum buddy for sure what he is.

you can be town with him scum and be surer of his alignment than I see as reasonable (and be right), than I can see based on stuff I don't have.
you can be town with him scum and be surer of his alignment than I see as reasonable (and be fooled), than I can see based on stuff I dont have.
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Post Post #2112 (isolation #215) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:01 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2109, Garmr wrote:Tso has been in more of my games than any other player


and have you seen his this reluctant to post case before?
where when?
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Post Post #2113 (isolation #216) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:16 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2110, Aegor wrote:
Votecount 1.17


[5]
Aneninen:
WBOCampfire1104, Muffin, TierShift, Garmr, T S O
[5]
PeregrineV:
Egg, Thor665, Scripten, The Fonz, Boonskiies
[4]
Thor665:
goodmorning, Nero Cain, flubbernugget, Izariael
[1]
Egg:
davesaz
[1]
goodmorning:
Slandaar
[1]
Scripten:
PeregrineV
[1]
Slandaar:
Aneninen
[1]
T S O:
AxleGreaser
[1]
WBOCampire1104:
Grayfoxxxx


[1]
Not Voting:
hephaestus

With 21 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline:
suspended

Mod Notes

Still looking for a replacement for WBOCampfire1104.


Hey
@TSO
!
Look I stopped tunnelling you! (I seemingly have either had an epiphany or a lobotomy <drool>)

VOTE: PeregrineV L-6 (now the lead wagon again)

but its going to take me about 2 days to get my reasons for that vote together....

We need to consolidate on one wagon or the other, and I dont like the Thor one.
However the one of the biggest problems I have with voting your wagon on Aneninen, is that I cant see for myself the scummy stuff he did nearer the beginning of the game.
You saw plenty of it!

Please show me the scummy stuff Aneninen did earlier.
I have no need to have explained. Nor
Its specifically the earlier stuff i need to see as scummy

I also need to see why you in particular saw it as scummy, not why anybody else does.
I need an understanding of the conflict and how reasonable or not his responses were.
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Post Post #2116 (isolation #217) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:10 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2115, Garmr wrote:Also the situations you explained could also be put into play with you and tso since your certain his scum.


actually i am not certain.
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Post Post #2117 (isolation #218) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:40 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2115, Garmr wrote:^Axles mind


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

baseless innuendo is fun. so is selective quoting.
The rest of that post talked about what it would take for me to vote the Anenien wagon.
(I suppose as that didn't suit your thesis, you just delete it yeah?)


as for mini 1510, and his meta
I agree, in my observation, he does not tend to post walls and cases and stuff, especially not without prompting .

What I asked for earlier were posts that showed scumminess in Aneninen not just bad.
in mini 1510 TSO said this

In post 2115, T S O wrote:
"If you gave reasoning for doing ...well, anything, you might be of some value as Town. As it stands, nah."


In a later post http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5425755
" look at how cheeky Majiffy and Marquis are being in pushing lynches with no reasoning."

I am not sure how you think that meta is like this game and town read it.
So no you showing me, that you do see he is playing to his meta
as a finished discussion even now.
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Post Post #2118 (isolation #219) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:43 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

EBWOP
In post 2117, AxleGreaser wrote:So the discussion where you show me,
that you do see (in this game) that he is playing to his meta (from previous games)
is not finished even now.
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Post Post #2159 (isolation #220) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:05 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2122, Garmr wrote:
In post 1582, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1460, The Fonz wrote:PV: NO! You still haven't answered the question of why you assumed insider knowledge rather than error.

"Most games this big have multiscum. So it's safe to assume it, therefore we can't rule out two players both being scum even if their interactions appear unlikely from teammates."

Give me literally ANY possible Thor thought process that makes even close to as much sense as the above and is compatible with your allegations.


I have feeling that knife cuts both ways.
Thor didn't seriously entertain the idea that PereV, might just believe that multiball was not likely and hence assuming it was a TMI thing. At least enough to have towny poke to see what happens.

Indeed why then neither of them called the other out for that.
I almost get the impression they are both scum, or they are both town and there is something about how they play mafia I don't get.

I am kinda leaning towards the latter, and want to lynch TSO, because I have no cognitive dissonance there that guy is not playing on the same team as me. .

What happened to they are both town do you think they are both scum now? Both have pretty much done nothing that would change there reads they are acting consistent.

But your interested in lynching Pere now what changed or do you think there both scum?


I am
kinda
leaning towards the latter, and
want to lynch TSO,
because I have no cognitive dissonance there that guy is not playing on the same team as me.

have you been reading the same thread as me?
apparently TSO is (effectively) modconfirmed unlynchable... (not even wagonable...to get some info and make him play the damn game)

so then I would... (sit in a corner and cry... )

Which bit does make sense.

and yeah I have problems with a Thor vs PereV wagon, I have insufficient faith in Thors towniness to place any weight on his feel read of is PereV trying, treading water, or ...

I have even larger problems with TSOs approach to seemingly specifically not trying to lynch Aneninen, by stating actual reasons in the thread.

as stated it will take me some time to put my reasons in the thread. about 2 days. I am sure that is fine with you.
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Post Post #2160 (isolation #221) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:07 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2159, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2122, Garmr wrote:
In post 1582, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1460, The Fonz wrote:PV: NO! You still haven't answered the question of why you assumed insider knowledge rather than error.

"Most games this big have multiscum. So it's safe to assume it, therefore we can't rule out two players both being scum even if their interactions appear unlikely from teammates."

Give me literally ANY possible Thor thought process that makes even close to as much sense as the above and is compatible with your allegations.


I have feeling that knife cuts both ways.
Thor didn't seriously entertain the idea that PereV, might just believe that multiball was not likely and hence assuming it was a TMI thing. At least enough to have towny poke to see what happens.

Indeed why then neither of them called the other out for that.
I almost get the impression they are both scum, or they are both town and there is something about how they play mafia I don't get.

I am
kinda
leaning towards the latter, and
want to lynch TSO,
because I have no cognitive dissonance there that guy is not playing on the same team as me. .

What happened to they are both town do you think they are both scum now? Both have pretty much done nothing that would change there reads they are acting consistent.

But your interested in lynching Pere now what changed or do you think there both scum?


Axle Said Previously:I am
kinda
leaning towards the latter, and
want to lynch TSO,
because I have no cognitive dissonance there that guy is not playing on the same team as me.

have you been reading the same thread as me?
apparently TSO is (effectively) modconfirmed unlynchable... (not even wagonable...to get some info and make him play the damn game)

so then you think I would/should... (sit in a corner and cry... )

Which bit does not make sense.

and yeah I have problems with a Thor vs PereV wagon, I have insufficient faith in Thors towniness to place any weight on his feel read of is PereV trying, treading water, or ...

I have even larger problems with TSOs approach to seemingly specifically not trying to lynch Aneninen, by stating actual reasons in the thread.

as stated it will take me some time to put my reasons in the thread. about 2 days. I am sure that is fine with you.
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Post Post #2161 (isolation #222) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:10 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

brain is fried for some reason (not enough coffee?, no thor I am not drunk dont PL me) ^^^^^^ was an EBWOP
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Post Post #2162 (isolation #223) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:31 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2125, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2016, Aneninen wrote:
– I was FoS-ed in another game for using the phrase "derail a wagon" and I was town

So, you know that town can use the term derail a wagon then and yet are accusing me of using it?



In post 1969, Aneninen wrote:

In post 1965, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
(By the way, did he want to derail the PeregrineV wagon in ? We should remember that later!)

Yep I want to derail PV wagon.

Derail? Isn't that word used for a scum-action? To derail a wagon of a scumbuddy?

VOTE: Slandaar


Hi. I was going to say something to "Slandaar" but i realised it was better to ask you a question.

The thoughts
"you had previously, said derail wagon as town and been called scum for it"
"Slandaar has just said he wants to derail a wagon"
were both in your head at the same time

how and why did you find him scummy for it?
1961 & 1969 could both for me do with longer explanations, as I have multiple ideas about what you may have been thinking.
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Post Post #2165 (isolation #224) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:00 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2154, Aegor wrote:
hephaestus is being replaced. GrayFoxxxx, Nero Cain have been prodded.


Shiro replaces WBOCampfire1104 effective immediately.


@Mod

The Deadline status is?
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Post Post #2175 (isolation #225) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:37 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2164, Aneninen wrote:Hmmm... and has that claim changed your reads on Pere?



did you read what he claimed when? (follow the link?)
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Post Post #2176 (isolation #226) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:45 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 646, Garmr wrote:
In post 562, Boonskiies wrote:Don't push me to claim, please.



In post 572, Boonskiies wrote:I'm almost positive it's multiball. My role basically implies it.

Kinda annoyed that someone would passively role claim day 1 with only one vote on them. If it is multiball all you had to do was wait one day and you could of keeped it hidden from scum. Unless your just saying that to get some town cred but that will sort itself out in time.

UNVOTE: boon

VOTE: Aneninen


@Garmr
this is your original vote of Aneninen.

Could you clarify just what you saw before that that this vote was based on.

There is some old discussion, and i could trawl the thread but I dont want to be putting words in your mouth.

There is wagon on Aneninen, I am on record as saying on
principle
I'd prefer not to lynch Thor or PereV today.
I am claiming that if
you have a good case on Aneninen (esp based on things early in the thread
aka
: back when you voted.)
I will vote it too...

do you?

Spoiler: clarity
As you know (or should) because I said so
In post 2113, AxleGreaser wrote:[...]However the one of the
biggest problems I have with voting your wagon on Aneninen
, is that I cant see for myself the scummy stuff he did nearer the beginning of the game.
You saw plenty of it!

Please show me the scummy stuff Aneninen did earlier. [...]

I am developing a strong suspicion TSO wont be posting his reason anytime soon.
earlier I said:
In post 1432, AxleGreaser wrote:I will discuss Aneninen with you, if I achieve clarity on TSOs claimed reasons.

I have failed to reach that endpoint, instead I have demostrable proof he wont do as he says he will.

So now, I would like to know what you found scummy about those earlier posts.
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Post Post #2178 (isolation #227) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:30 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@GARMR
Addendum: reading that back it seems unfair (me asking you do the work). But when i looked it wasnt hard anyway.
Your interactions with him seem centred around

If that is the case what about that made him scum for you?
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Post Post #2179 (isolation #228) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:34 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

centred around
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Post Post #2187 (isolation #229) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:07 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2184, The Fonz wrote:I know I keep trying to read the TSO/Anen/Axle back and forth, but just get a headache very quickly and stop being able to follow it.


perhaps as its(Aneninen) now one of the three leading wagons, its important enough? (recently tied for first)
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Post Post #2189 (isolation #230) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:18 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:4. Boonskiies- Probably scum



can you explain what came before here that made you think "probably scum"
to be clear I interpet that statement at that time to mean More likely than every body labelled less strongly, (its an early D1 read),
but I am interested in where it came from?
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Post Post #2253 (isolation #231) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:49 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Aneninen

Spoiler: fluff? (4 others)
In post 2197, Aneninen wrote:
In post 2175, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2164, Aneninen wrote:Hmmm... and has that claim changed your reads on Pere?

did you read what he claimed when? (follow the link?)

Yes. Though I asked Thor, what's your opinion about that claim?



This claim
In post 1366, PeregrineV wrote:And I did claim, but since reading is sometimes happenstance,
Town Neighbor is a neighborhood with Egg (votes today-24, 40) and Thor (votes today- 23, 64, 132, 376)
Neighborhood opened and closed over weekend, so I have no posts. Thor has 10, Egg has 11.

is a claim to be in a neighbour hood.
It is not a
role claim
(ala boonskies soft claim)

Significance

If you subscribe to the theory that the host gave town 3(IIRC 3 hoods) free modconfirmed cop list checks... as part of the game balance.
Then approximately 1 in 4 of each neighborhood is scum. Thats seriously powerful.

Given that it would also be powerful if we were given a neighborhood, where if we kept it secret it could be an all town circle, that could plan stuff.

Then Id suggest my best guess is there is some chance of either. As such we as players are forced to play the damn game instead of second guess the mod and play against his setup skills.
In post 1109, Thor665 wrote:As I recall, I flat out told you in the QT that I considered neighbor to be amongst the most useless of town roles in existence.

Thor rarely lies, blatantly except in jest. or as /sarcasm but without the tag. So Id assume he really near enough believes "neighbor to be amongst the most useless of town roles in existence." and although technically it is the existence of the hood not the role itself that creates a quasi list check (in the all hoods are 1/4 scum BS scenario) (even if it was, then that hood is 1/3 not 1/4 scum)(However the power would come from knowing that if we find a scum the rest are town...)

So, for me its not highly meaningful at all for todays lynch. (unless someone with site meta setup knowledge, contradicts me and says blah blah)

As such I wonder at the intent of your questioning?


Spoiler: more
In post 2164, Aneninen wrote:
In post 2039, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2020, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2002, Thor665 wrote:With not even a single claim or L-1 on the table.

Claimed in

Good, so we don't need hammer intent.


Clearly the 2039 by Pere is BS, that claim is not the kind of claim that is required at L-1
So is Thors 2020

You didnt and dont 'seem' to be joking.... Huh?
Hmmm... and has that claim changed your reads on Pere?

but quite
possibly
useful to me if Aneninen responds in spoiler.
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Post Post #2259 (isolation #232) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:41 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2207, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2059, Scripten wrote:This sounds like a town read. I suppose that makes sense. Do you think his pushes (discounting TSO) are worthwhile?


Does he have a non-TSO push? He seems to really like TSO for scum.


You appear to not understand my play.

Quite some time ago.
The Aeneninen wagon looked off.

perhaps they (the voters) don't know Aneninen, (or that will be a convenient excuse if, they are scum and, they need one)?
post link in thread. make it
>>>>obvious<<<<


Ask the guy with practically zero actual content on why the person he is voting is scum....
(get trolled or told to fuck off by arrogant scum/town)
bang face on wall for very very long time.

Start looking -_- at every player in the game, because they let that fly....
bang face on wall for very very long time.

decide fuck it, he is clearly not actually playing on my team.
(choice: throw a tanty stamp feet and go silly, play what is left of the game, even if others dont want to)

return to investigating whether the Aneninen wagon is based on stuff I dont see, or whether there is scum in that there early wagon.

Does any of that make Anenenine town/scum?
Nope none of that was Anenenin doing scummy looking stuff, (indeed its me failing to see where people showed that (back then) which is the original problem)

On that wagon it is equally (near enough) plausible for me that scum will fake push a scum buddy with no real desire to get them lynched (not bussing just parking) as place to park your vote.
(esp if you have vote park meta...)
or they will fake push a towny, with no urgency to get them flipped either. This would be especially true if the other wagons were TvT. (or Tv(scum who is dead in the water and written off)

Spoiler: a rule that _will_ be irrelevant
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Trust_Tell
The player insists that they only do this behavior as a certain alignment, and never as any other alignment.
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Post Post #2260 (isolation #233) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:57 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2215, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2189, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:4. Boonskiies- Probably scum



can you explain what came before here that made you think "probably scum"
to be clear I interpet that statement at that time to mean More likely than every body labelled less strongly, (its an early D1 read),
but I am interested in where it came from?


He had 11 posts. 1 had content (). He also voted and unvoted 2 people, one of which he revotes.



The votes were RVS, &
You previously liked (pretty sure I have said I even liked you liking that post)

Is Boon normally more contentful and thus you think for instance the stress of being scum is making him less so in this game?

not feeling where the read came from yet.
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Post Post #2261 (isolation #234) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:24 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2233, T S O wrote:Peregrine's jump on Anen is awful.

However, I still want Anen dead.

What do?


Can I upsize that?

does that come with reasons?
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Post Post #2263 (isolation #235) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:42 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2243, T S O wrote:
In post 2241, davesaz wrote:Hey, wait, it wasn't that bad after all. But I derped by jumping to conclusions anyway. lol

TSO -- you
still
owe that case. I'm seriously considering sheeping onto your wagon for this reason.


I KNOW MY MOTIVATION IS SHOT TO SHIT TO DO IT BUT NOT DOING IT GIVES AXLE A REASON TO CALL ME SCUM


you are soooooooooooo kind. XXX. (but no babies)


returning to the actual game we are all meant to be playing.

What I need is rreason to vote your wagon.... remember the guy you want lynched because he is scum (yeah that one i need a reason if i am going to vote him)

PereV can vote your wagon as he looks likely to be lynched and if he is town he knows voting Anenine is 100% better than voting himself.

I need a reason.
In particular the reason i need to see is that Aennine has been scum all day.....
My towny theory for Anenines later game play is he was tilted by you + (others) scummily tunneling for crap all.

Thus to vote your wagon I need your reasons.... (from earlier)

Remember, play to win?
and you actually want your scum read lynched right?


Perhaps Garmr can give me some reasons Aenenien was scum earlier, when he first voted him ?
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Post Post #2267 (isolation #236) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:02 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

Spoiler: @beast /noise
In post 2256, beastcharizard wrote:What is everyone's read on my slot?

predecessor ISO and vote count says...
In post 2258, beastcharizard wrote:He did nothing. And that is the truth.


So everyone is likely to have the read he did nothing...

FYI: I dont remember anybody pushing a lets lynch the/a lurker meme...

A really early D1 kind of read would be, town if I squint really hard... (and am compelled to flip a coin.)
So starting at 25% chance of scum, ,...your predecessor was at 24.?

At some time in the future I will probably give more weight to how you dealt with catching up than the prior read.

Play?

why do you care, even a tiny bit?
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Post Post #2270 (isolation #237) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:30 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2268, Muffin wrote:
In post 2259, AxleGreaser wrote:decide fuck it,
he
is clearly not actually playing on my team.

The bolded "he"... is that referring to Aneninen or TSO? I have trouble following your trains of thought.

Also, is Aneninenenineneninen town or scum in your opinion?


While I think its clear, I can well understand the confusion, I often have to pedit my posts (before posting) to clarify stuff like that.

Spoiler: annotated version
In post 2259, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2207, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2059, Scripten wrote:This sounds like a town read. I suppose that makes sense. Do you think his pushes (discounting TSO) are worthwhile?


Does he have a non-TSO push? He seems to really like TSO for scum.


You appear to not understand my play.

Quite some time ago.
The Aeneninen wagon looked off.

perhaps they (the voters) don't know Aneninen, (or that will be a convenient excuse if, they are scum and, they need one)?
post link in thread. make it
>>>>obvious<<<<


Ask the guy(TSO) with practically zero actual content on why the person he(TSO) is voting is scum(TSO reads Anen as scum)....
(get trolled(by TSO) or told to fuck off by arrogant scum/town)
bang face on wall for very very long time.

Start looking -_- at every player in the game, because they let that fly.... (rest of town allowed TSO to play that way)
bang face on wall for very very long time.

decide fuck it, he(TSO) is clearly not actually playing on my team. ( This harks back to lots of my filter, hence I thought it was clear. most importantly my 'case' ) )
(choice: throw a tanty stamp feet and go silly, play what is left of the game, even if others dont want to)

return to investigating whether the Aneninen wagon is based on stuff I dont see, or whether there is scum in that there early wagon.

Does any of that make Anenenine town/scum?
Nope none of that was Anenenin doing scummy looking stuff, (indeed its me failing to see where people showed that (back then) which is the original problem)

On that wagon it is equally (near enough) plausible for me that scum will fake push a scum buddy with no real desire to get them lynched (not bussing just parking) as place to park your vote.
(esp if you have vote park meta...)
or they will fake push a towny, with no urgency to get them flipped either. This would be especially true if the other wagons were TvT. (or Tv(scum who is dead in the water and written off)




yes in my opinion Anenine is town or scum.(sorry, read on)

A reason to vote Pere today is I now think i have more to gain and find out by making sure that the people that want to lynch Aneneinen have to state their reasons... eventually.

I have real problems with how people were voting Aneneinen earlier.
Those problems were consistent with Aneninen being a scum buddy, not really being bussed, just being look busied on.

They were also consistent with players parking on weak player, and thinking they didnt need a real reason then being surprised when I seriously pressed for one.
(here is TSO feeling Thor out on Aneninen , before TSO votes him)

They were also initially consistent with p,layers that dont know Aneninen.

As for a direct read on Aneninen, that is hard, which is one reason the earlier cases were not even plausible as real.

he has never played scum game on this forum, standard expectations would be low for what he might do this game. (this IMO is important)

many of his posts while easy for TSO to denigrate, do fit my understanding of his previous meta.
he did much later go off the rails once or twice.

he went silly (from my POV) at . In that post he is thinking? but what is? (but if he was town i read that as relief...) If hes scum its just WTF.
at he flipped,
(towny reason: presumably as he became aware i didnt totally town read him, him thinking its about as friends allies and betrayl, hence being personally upset i hadnt actually taken his '
side
', and was just scum hunting those voting him, could well have been a shock) (he apparently has not yet learned to trust others distrust of him)
(scum reason: he didnt like his perception of the pressure i was applying elsewhere.)

The reads as him being tilted. (Tony reason: yep i can understand towny Aneninen being tilted by now. Scum reason: Im not sure scum Aenenin can fake being titled and dont know why he was tilted at Slaandar.)

Aneninen: I am pretty sure I lean town on him.
(The recent stuff is worrying and its not good, but understandable.)
However I am sure I will get more out of an ongoing discussion of Aneninen tomorrow that more and more multiball crap.

Lots of thats in relatively Axle short hand as people dont want HUUUUGE walls. Especially given the time of game day. If some bit intrigues you ask questions, there will be longer version in English.

If other people would actually post their fucking reasoning that might of course change...
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Post Post #2271 (isolation #238) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:35 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2269, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 2267, AxleGreaser wrote:
Spoiler: @beast /noise
In post 2256, beastcharizard wrote:What is everyone's read on my slot?

predecessor ISO and vote count says...
In post 2258, beastcharizard wrote:He did nothing. And that is the truth.


So everyone is likely to have the read he did nothing...

FYI: I dont remember anybody pushing a lets lynch the/a lurker meme...

A really early D1 kind of read would be, town if I squint really hard... (and am compelled to flip a coin.)
So starting at 25% chance of scum, ,...your predecessor was at 24.?

At some time in the future I will probably give more weight to how you dealt with catching up than the prior read.

Play?

why do you care, even a tiny bit?


It was just a question to gauge how lazy I can be.


bugger.
but if you are lazy it will probably bite you later.
Only playing when you have to, looks bad to me, but you are along long way behind in rading.

Prioritise well.
Good decisions about that look towny.

Also all these wagons if they are actually stalled may cause a bail out vote lurker compromise lynch...
(ooo did i sound scary enough?)
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Post Post #2275 (isolation #239) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:02 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2272, Muffin wrote:thank you


Well you have degree in town planning, and that a process I respect and understand.
So of course i needed to answer your question, when it didn't cut across anything I was doing at the time
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Post Post #2278 (isolation #240) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:39 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2277, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2262, Egg wrote:And you are voting him. So you actually ARE assuming two scum teams now?

I mean that does make sense; Calling Thor scum for saying it's multiball insinuating Thor has inside knowledge. For this to hold you will start to assume multiball.



At the time I asked this question PereV was voting Thor...
In post 1647, AxleGreaser wrote:
@PereV

What is your current belief in how likely this game is to be multiball?
Why?


by the time he answered completely why
he had changed his vote to Scripten

The original Thor vote was for me too early to be a towny like survival vote, as the latest vote on Aneninen is (seems)

as such i kinda figured, that if the Thor read was real (and believed), then an explanation of the likelyhood of MB would draw on the evidence that Thor supposedly slipped.
and that at some points PereV was this sure
that if game MB then 100% thor slipped and is scum

(Which ought also translate a bit as if Thor is scum he slipped and it is MB.)

In post 1557, PeregrineV wrote:6. No mistake. I still believe that if there are 2 scumteams, Thor is likely scum (this was the initial thought- now that has gone up to 100% chance).


needed to post this before I lost probably my best original reasons for being on this wagon.

If PereV flips anti town, my bet is SK.
(while the wagon isnt going anywhere, I dont really sense buddies, or full on counter wagons, but can imagine I see indistinct scum scurrying away from what think may be a townie lynch.)
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Post Post #2283 (isolation #241) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:16 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2279, Slandaar wrote:To be honest assume was the wrong word; it will be considered more possible than what he would normally think which might cloud things.

I will have to look into what you said later I have thought about it but basically I need to look at the whole conversation thread.

But PV isn't an SK - the argument on Thor doesn't make sense from an SK because SK will assume one scumteam thus Thor's multiball comment doesn't look like a slip at all and there is no reason to fake scumreads as an SK.


The conversation definitely needs looking at, I had hoped when I went fishing for a clearer tell, what i got is what I got.

AFAIK, the problem with PereV over that is this.

During the time when PereV was voting, Thor
do you believe he was legitimately scum hunting him or was he already that early in the day voting him more because it was a survival thing.

Is the lack of any reference to how it might be MB, because Thor slipped it, indicative that PereV really didnt seriously consider Thor scum?
A reasonable explanation is PereV was just being nice to me and giving me a backgrounder in site Meta in general.
The question is what is how plausible.

re probability of SK.
SK has to do anything everyone else who is not trying to get lynched does.
In the case of PereV or Thor being scum they will still have to impersonate their towny game or get lynched as scum... yeah?

Not making too many waves, would be a thing. But PereV failing to tackle Thors alignment as serious question would have raised my suspicions.
So yes PereV had to at some time to some extent prod and poke at Thor for scumminess.

The scumminess of comes for me in two bits.
Where did the boonskies read come from?
Also why did the push on Thor get lost in a list post.
That not where i would make it if i wanted to find out about it. That looks like place to make it forget it, and then be able to say later look I was suspicious of Thor...

Spoiler: another not serious exchange
In post 385, PeregrineV wrote:I know it's only page2, but I so liked it!

In post 36, Thor665 wrote:I now support Csaro's lynch also.

Scripten's drunk post is also a policy lynch.

People should vote one or the other, my RVS stage is over.

I found Csaro's post refreshingly direct. What about them makes you want to lynch him?

Since when have drunk posts been a policy lynch?

In post 393, PeregrineV wrote:
2. Since always, for me.

I'll keep an eye out for that, since I see quite a few of them.

Not sure how to interpret that, but PereV did not seem to keep an eye out for drunk posts...
and not sure what he could do or say if he had.
Here is Thor not noticing or commenting on a drunk post....
In post 1431, Thor665 wrote:The urge to crack further jokes here is strong.
Because you got the names wrong again.

Whatevs.

I never really got the feel the PereV Thor interaction got more for real than that. At least one of them did not seem to have their heart in it.
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Post Post #2288 (isolation #242) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:56 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2285, Slandaar wrote:I think PV felt is was possible Thor 'slipped' and considered it a strong possibility that if the game is multiball Thor is scum. You don't really need to make a big deal about it as you can wait a day or two when you know if it is or isn't leaving it in a reads list is no problem.

Then Thor goes after him for it, PV produces meta showing in his experience generally this sized game isn't multiball, Thor misreps PV by saying he should include SK's in the numbers and then from there PV is obviously going to suspect Thor - I also strongly disagree it was obvious Thor was using the term multi-ball to include SK's (backs up the above)

So, yes I think PV thought Thor is scum when he was voting him/was scumhunting him.

The argument about MB I need to look at a bit but basically I thought he was mostly arguing what he assumed the setup would be based on his experience because that was really what the argument was about. As said I need to look at your conversation thread as that does look different.



Thats fine but I dont see the vote of Thor, for rather long time, so it seems like it needs to have something else.
My read of his ISO after that point does not read like person convinced that who they are voting is scum.
The argument continues to be about why PereV is not scum and Thors case is wrong... not about why Thor is scum for the case...
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Post Post #2334 (isolation #243) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:17 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2290, Egg wrote:Axle, once again, I can't read spoiler tags from my phone. Please stop using them.


it a cost benefit
trade off
thing.
I will try,
are you saying you only post from your phone?


Spoilers fold up daunting piles of fluff and make it easier for others to see whats going on.
(personally my expression would be clearer if i had two levels of nested spoilers!!)
(I think nested(hyperlinked), English is linear, yuk, hence I speak gak not Engrish)

From you point of view from you phone, when you are on your phone you cant.
needs of the many vs the few. (I am trying to see how much it hurts or whether you can see them at some time.)
posting only large raw text and quote walls will mean others effectively wont see them either (glaze over effect)

spoiler about drunk posts referred to this exchange the discussion
yet at there is a drunk post
there is Thor ignoring it.
Where is PereV watching out for it?
yeah the original stuff was always BS... why was it BS?

as I said:
"I never really got the feel the PereV Thor interaction got more for real than that. At least one of them did not seem to have their heart in it."
specifically I didn't feel PereV was trying to lynch Thor as probable scum while PereV was voting Thor.

Note having no capacity to read spoiler at any time means you cant read significant parts of these posts either
pretty sure day night actions rules might be important at some time.
your problem seems larger than my posts, but I will try. (links out side spoilers that contain quotes may help) (inline spoilered quotes are clearer for others and links workable by you?)
personally I use two wide screen monitors to play mafia... (and an 8 screen virtual desktop is available if I get spr srs) YMMV.

as that is all gamme irrelvant crap, normally Id put it in a spoiler so only the relevant person could read it.
Sorry for wasting everyone elses time.
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Post Post #2339 (isolation #244) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:56 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2333, The Fonz wrote:TSO makes a couple of factually false representations of Anen's play..


Indeed and you know TSOs factually false representations of Anen's play are from a towny how?

I am happy to believe TSO gets his jollies like that, but it doesnt actually fit with my recollection of his play in the past.
In post 293, Cho wrote:Believe me, T S O can fake annoying anger. It's what helps him win scumgames.


do you know he cant do that?

In post 2333, The Fonz wrote:Basically it feels like their antipathy has snowballed into this perpetual motion of mutual loathing and incomprehension.

really I saw it as a little less even handed.... Except I have links to actual posts.




is TSO agreeing that is what his case is (aka I cant have misrepresented it he agrees) (TSOs case consists of

here is Anenine NO antipathy, no fake anger, just being as towny as Aneninen is.

Here is TSO stoking that antiptahy
In post 426, T S O wrote:What would you grade your reading ability, out of 10? Right now it's a 3 and going down constantly.



While Aneneines original point is not a particularly good one, Aneninens point that TSO is claiming people who have played as little with him as Aneninen has is valid. TSO is really happy to play the you dont know shit about my meta card when he wants to, but also wants to to claim Aneninen who has no way to know shit about his meta (and is so unreliable that TSO disagrees with everything he says...) will back him up....

Personally i am not feeling that TSO was ever sincere.

Eventually recently it does devolve into mess, but back then there was one person backing his truck up and taking a dump on another player seemingly for the purpose of getting into a shit fight.

The story of TSO:
Hmmm.
TSO vs Csaero

<RAGE RAGE RAGE>
<put downs {+others} to fuel the RAGE>
<TSO: damn that guy got mod killed.>

OMGUS CHO vs "she can be town"

TSO vs Aneneinen <TSO: OMGUS Aneninen, fake more anger>
In post 481, T S O wrote:Do I have to respond to Aneninen's posts of bad?

<Axle thinks: Well you do but only if you actually think he is scum and actually want him lynched...
<TSO: weeee home free>

Axle... asks some questions... <TSO: Damn... 4th time lucky?> <TSO: nvm: OMGUS Axle, must fake yet more anger. RAGE RAGE RAGE.>

The end.
No one lived happily ever after.
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Post Post #2342 (isolation #245) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:09 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2326, Aneninen wrote:– because I have two better ideas. I'll tell it later. Because I strongly think whatever sort of case I posted, it would be called bullshyt because of the author of the post. So, I'm waiting and reading.

http://www.21st-century-christianity.co ... p-11-5.jpg

Hi when people call not bullshit, bullshit, for bullshit reasons, I find scum?
Why you not/stop playing on my team? :?
Its a game people lie. (mumble, prevaricate, dissemble, creatively omit, and RAGE RAGE RAGE.. => yawn?)

The
better ideas
? distill them so they are smaller then post them.

I have ideas that I sometimes dont post, because their time is not yet ripe, thats different.
The worst thing that can happen to a towny is be shut down. Survival is an inherently scum mindset.
Playing well with others is a town one. So a balance between not screaming at the thread hey I solved the game, and not being shut down is the key.

Excuses dont play well as either alignment.
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Post Post #2344 (isolation #246) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:17 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2341, T S O wrote:I'd love you to tell me where we've previously played together.

you really do seem to have this game arse up

Here is you claiming you had played with him and that he could comment on your meta?
In post 381, T S O wrote:I don't lurk as scum.
Aneninen
, Cho, Egg, Thor and Pere have all
seen my scumgame when it's working decently.
You can ask them.
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Post Post #2345 (isolation #247) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:19 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2343, goodmorning wrote:Maybe the Anen wagon should move to Axle?


so does that come with reasons, or is it a feeling post?
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Post Post #2351 (isolation #248) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:44 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2348, T S O wrote:
In post 2339, AxleGreaser wrote:
I am happy to believe TSO gets his jollies like that, but it doesnt actually fit with my recollection of his play in the past.


Before you tell me I'm not following the game, get fucking literate. Thanks.


do you have a wagon you are trying to get lynched?
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Post Post #2360 (isolation #249) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:53 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2353, T S O wrote:it's axle


Oh cool.

So do you have any posts you think you can show have scum intent or motivation?
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Post Post #2367 (isolation #250) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:11 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2358, davesaz wrote:Can someone give me a summary of the scumread on Anen? The density is so high that I hadn't noticed that a wagon formed there, till the VC.

Which vote count? The wind chnaged directions on that wagon back

And I'm quite surprised to note that Axle is posting so much to/about TSO, but voting PereV.


consolidation is the reason, I cant realistically get TSO lynched today.
Also the veritable stonewall of TSO, despite claiming if anyone else wanted his reasons he'd give them he hasn't.
and if that isn't a slam dunk D1 lynch.. I am probably playing the wrong game.

re: the surprise (to you) wagon size
The scum read comes in two parts (muffin (since got off) and tier ) both voted about the same time.
Tier due to
Tiers posting on Aneninem TSO does go back some distance though so ISO that.

As i think you are aware.
Garmr and TSO go back much further to nearer the start of the game.
I pointed to TSOs in thread claimed reasons. (he also backed off some reasons)
Garmrs are more diverse

The end

Oh and shiros is a failed unvote see
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Post Post #2368 (isolation #251) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:11 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2364, TierShift wrote:CAN THE AXLE TSO SHITSTORM STOP

k
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Post Post #2375 (isolation #252) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:16 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2365, T S O wrote:lots of these don't make sense.

thats not a case

it fails this test
In post 1048, AxleGreaser wrote:I will expect you to show me the stuff that you saw back then that is so bad(disgreed with) (not just that it is unarguably bad) but that you conclude for it to be that bad Aneninen must be or is quite likely to be scum, because as town he would not be that bad.


at best you have argued Aneninen is not a good player.
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Post Post #2382 (isolation #253) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:12 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2377, T S O wrote:
In post 1048, AxleGreaser wrote:I will expect you to show me the stuff that you saw back then that is so bad(disgreed with) (not just that it is unarguably bad) but that you conclude for it to be that bad Aneninen must be or is quite likely to be scum, because as town he would not be that bad.


can you show me one piece of evidence from my ISO which fits this. or anyone's. doesn't even have to be this game. as long as it's not a scum qt slip or some shit.


In this
you made zero steps in that direction. I dont think you are that bad at town.

You showed and made no mention of scum intent.
You did not show he was under pressure and flailing. or ...
you did not show anything alignment indicative and say "it was alignment indicative for reason X".

For you Anenine is bad == lynch him

whereas with Csaero you knew that Csaero being bad did not make him scum

That is you being worse than I can reasonably imagine you being as town.

How did you do that as scum? (after all getting scum PM doesnt IME make you stupid.)
You made a mistake, you misjudged whether or not anyone would call you to account for not a having real reason for voting Aneninen.
and now when you look at his filter while it has things from back then that you can call bad, it does not have things you can legitimately call scummy.

You also hypocritically misrep Aneninen right there " him thinking he can read Thor perfectly with 1-1 sampling,"
No. while he does give Thor a fairly solid town read, the words he actually used tell a story different to the one you make up.
Aneninen said: "Thor is town. His posts are good, they are about scumhunting. (Also, I've seen town-Thor and scum-Thor –
though
only 1–1 games – and This is Town-thor. He's another player I'd sheep if needed ^_^)"
he used the 1-1 as specific qualification of his accuracy, "
though
only 1–1 games"
at no point there does he say he can read Thor perfectly, that is a bit you made up.
His Thor read is also rather obviously based on what Aneninen regards as good posts in this game. Here is him linking one, in the very same post you claim is
scummy
.
(pedit: actually you dont, you only say it is "don't make sense.")
In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Thor, – goodpost.



Its hypocritical as you claimed Aneninen could comment on your meta () of not lurking based on less than 1 game para 3....
Then later challenged us(unamed) to find where you had played with him?
Its almost like you are not reading and thinking about the posts of the guy you scum read.

You are starting with the answer you want "Aneninen is
scum
does not make sense" then retro fitting facts.
That is not how townies play,
Youre scum.
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Post Post #2383 (isolation #254) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:30 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2368, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2364, TierShift wrote:CAN THE AXLE TSO SHITSTORM STOP

k


if you dont like shouting for effect.

this is odd.
In post 2378, TierShift wrote:YOUR ISO WILL COME TOMORROW


also I suppose its just personal thing, but i really dont like promises, I like Yoda
There is no try(promise), there is only do or not do.

Yoda, (like skip) is never scum
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Post Post #2384 (isolation #255) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:33 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

also just to be clear, I interpreted the call for the SHITSTORM to end to be an appeal for less outrageous display of mock anger..
(and the fact that it (the call for an end) was in capitals to be parody)
hence 2378 is odd.
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Post Post #2386 (isolation #256) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:38 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

also
@Garmr
you have been gone for a while and have catching up to do.
dont miss &

@thread
unless as per and things change, I am kinda (AFAIK) committed to a PereV lynch today.
given the time and the apparent lack of enthusiasm for it I intend not to be voting TSO again today.

I would however of course hammer it (based on my recent post), unless of course he somehow suddenly became town.
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Post Post #2425 (isolation #257) » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:21 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@thread procedural fluff with Egg.

In post 2411, Egg wrote:Just the all black ones are impossible to read without copying and pasting and risking losing my own post.

yeah I can get with the program *1
Black spoilers suck.

Spoiler: gee I like actual words x n
becuase you said, I believe, your problem was with >spoilers< not black ones. (with no link and my recent posts had named spoilers...)
named spoilers break up posts in a way i sometimes dont like (changes meaning a bit(adds artificial paragraph breaking up a thought) ) as spoilers with names also add white space. They are not just an aside.

However i have frequently resisted black spoilers as ... they're ugly and I dont like forcing mouse over to read. (with phones, it would be gak I see that)
I will make a strong attempt to include any black spoiler as labelled plain text at the bottom of the post. (aka, as per a footnote)


*1 Black spoilers suck

/PSA
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Post Post #2426 (isolation #258) » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:26 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2420, Shiro wrote:
I guess best wagon is Anen. His posts seem off and coming right out of a game that he was town(even if I was maf) his post don't have the same town vibe they had there.

So link to one... a specific post you claim is "off" "doesnt have the same town vibe"

I don't really know how to explain this tbh. Has GM noted anything similar to that ? If I recall Tier has and he was in the same game I speak of.

If you quote somethign and discuss it. You will either realise you are right and convince others or wrong.

Either way, would look townier than what you just did.
Doing so (being specific about which post) is risky if you are scum of course...
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Post Post #2435 (isolation #259) » Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:03 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2434, Shiro wrote:
Axl wrote: If you quote somethign and discuss it. You will either realise you are right and convince others or wrong.

I would link to the game itself but he said himself his isn't playing in the same way. I guess understable since that was a newbie game and this is a 21 people thingy




The suggestion was you quote the posts from this game that give you those impressions

You said
In post 2420, Shiro wrote: [...] Anen. His
posts
seem off
[...]


but so far i have no idea which posts you are talking about. (makes it hard for me to ask you questions or form a judgement whether you are making stuff up(scum) or trying to work stuff out (town)
please quote which
posts
and indicate in what way they
seem off
.
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Post Post #2440 (isolation #260) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:32 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

Still not seeing the links to posts in this game.
In post 2436, Shiro wrote:Hmmm first of the pigeon jokes felt off I had hard time believing that the person that made a complicated impssible to see crypto message acted that way.


You say : "I had hard time believing that the person that made a complicated impssible to see crypto message acted that way"
1/
. does that lead you to the conclusion he is more likely to be scum? why/how?

pigeon posts go back to here. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5962781 at least and
In post 429, Thor665 wrote:
In post 427, Muffin wrote:The pigeon thing is getting really old, really fast.

You should have tried living through it's creation - I think I was over it by the third reference. When it showed up this game... :cry:

(The post above is a reference by Thor to a previous completed game where Aneninen posted the pigeon posts for the first time. )
so I think its in his meta, so reading it as weird (scummish) would mean(require) looking at in previous in game contexts and see if he's using it the same or faking.
IIRC, how he used them in the past, it(the pigeon poop posts) does not feel weird or off to me. (that they exist at all is unusual... yes)

He had many posts that made little sense but screamed screamed town. I don't really see that here either

His approach to being top counterwagon want as defensive.

2/
What would have been towny?


I get the feeling he is more laid back here but that might be cause of his TSO interaction which would have made most people go fuck it.

3/
Is that alignment indicative to you? Which way?


Tier has a point though half a newbie game isn't sufficient meta to cross check.

That is on top of my head. Will read his and Pere ISOs when I get home to try and make a better conclusion .


IME, Its way easier to think OMG that guy looks soooooo town, when you know.

4/
Would you expect him not to be defensive after posts like this?
In post 426, T S O wrote:What would you grade your reading ability, out of 10? Right now it's a 3 and going down constantly.

In post 481, T S O wrote:Do I have to respond to Aneninen's posts of bad?


So again
I am asking that when you read Aenninen's filter in this game and you find posts that make you think he might be scum,

5/
post specifically which Aneninen post those are.
then post why they make him scum.

(Note pretty much the same questions, for anyone else if you change your mind about who is scum)
(I like reasons that refer to stuff in the game. Townies are mant to read the game then form conclusions, scum can and often have to just make stuff up.)

Do note:
I and hopefully everyone else can see, your join date, and read your last completed game.
This is not me grilling you. I have tried pretty hard to make fair questions you can answer. (Some more challenging i hope than others)
(I have not yet read your previous games)
I also see
Shiro: "That is
on top of my head
. Will read his and Pere ISOs
when I get home
to try and make a better conclusion .
and understand the limitations of being in a less than ideal position to evaluate a big game.

Also if you have, in your view and judgement more productive things to do than answer these do that, then deal with this stuff tomorrow (game day).
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Post Post #2442 (isolation #261) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:06 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2438, Slandaar wrote:Let's get this straight then. You didn't have a townread before finishing questioning but he never answered/responded to your huge wall post... where exactly did this townread come from then?

Hmmm that is a bum note in GMs filter.

Spoiler: wall + the non reply
This reply does not inspire towny confidence as reply to
In post 251, Csareo wrote:@Goodmorning- I'll get to your questions later, once I have more available time


this wall of accusatory questions
In post 239, goodmorning wrote:
[...#muffin stuff..]
In post 232, Csareo wrote:Does that help you understand why I might be trying to get off the TSO wagon?

So basically you're concerned that it's making you look bad?
Hmmmmmmmmmm.

explaining Nero snipped and that

So you're scumreading him because he makes jokes? I don't think he's directing anyone anywhere in particular.

- Humor and Misdirection

I really don't see TSO either being humourous or attempting to direct conversation.

- Meta Change

How many games have you played with TSO? Because as far as I can tell I've played in 6 at least with him, not counting any games where either of us was in hydra.
I know a fair amount about his meta and the way it's developed, particularly this new slightly less fucks given style (which I like a bit better than the somewhat abrasive TSO of yesteryear).
I'm not sure whether you do.

- The interaction where he showers me in compliments until you guy's don't

I don't think that happened; or, if it had, that it would be alignment-indicative.

- RVS voting me while also giving me a compliment

1) not sure that was meant as a compliment
2) that's kind of what happens when you RV. The number of times I've randomly voted someone with a "HIIIII" or an alarmingly cheery smiley is far greater than the number of times I've yelled something like "SCUM OMG" or "DEATH TO THE WEST" or something.

- Keeping RVS vote on me after calling me town about a dozen times after

This did happen, but why do you find it scummy?

- Refusing to answer ^

Refusing to answer anything is never a scumtell.

- How others joined my wagon when it became obvious TSO slipped on my meta

How is others joining your wagon indicative of TSO-Scum?

- He actually keeps up with the VI gambit unnecessarily for several posts

I don't think that was a gambit and I don't think he found it unnecessary.

- Thor Votes TSO and says he'll vig me (this needs more looking into)

But what does that have to do with TSO being Scum??

- Refusing to answer my questions and being anti-town

Being anti-Town is also not a scumtell.

P-EDIT: Please show me where I've said you're Scum. I'll wait.

You said you had a read on me of some sort. I'd like to see it explained, yeah?


Id like to know where that town read came from.... a lot... today

VOTE: Goodmorning
The above + Tone() + ...
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Post Post #2443 (isolation #262) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:25 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2419, Thor665 wrote:I'm not even wall quoting the rest, I think this is the curx.


here is some more crux.

@Thor Lets assume that as I have poor logic I have reached the conclusion that you have lost and will continue to lose the argument with Slaandar.
Now while that may not be true (from your POV) it is my vote, and so its only my logic that really matters.

Ok so thats done.

Why else should I be lynching PereV today,
If I squint, and I did (when I consolidated on what appeared to be the least worst wagon), I can find 'scummy' stuff in PereVs filter, but I have poor logic,
(I also reckon I found at least one thing i dont like in yours.. However past experience (reading games you played) tells me I can find things I don't like in your filter when you are town.
and note just like PereV they dont have to right/valid things, indeed as you flip town, they alone are demonstrably not reliably alignment indicative.)
Wat do.

Well I want to see how well
In post 848, Thor665 wrote:He is not only doing a slow start (which I might buy as town him) but is pairing it with sloppy reads and not really looking over the thread

What sloppy reads are there?
Particularly ones that are not all mixed up in your interpretation of MB, and what ought or ought not be scum indicative.
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Post Post #2444 (isolation #263) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:30 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

EBWOP

Well I want to see how well
In post 848, Thor665 wrote:He is not only doing a slow start (which I might buy as town him) but is pairing it with sloppy reads and not really looking over the thread

line up with thoughts in my head, but ones I am no longer comfortable lynching (besides GMs tone is off on that town read)

What sloppy reads are there that PereV made?
Particularly ones that are not all mixed up in your interpretation of MB, and what ought or ought not be scum indicative when said about MB.
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Post Post #2451 (isolation #264) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:10 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2448, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2350, Aegor wrote:
Day 1 deadline:
(expired on 2014-10-27 20:25:38)

I mean, look at this.

I think Pere is currently still L-5 (I haven't re-checked)
He is the biggest wagon with the next being L-7.

We basically have 24 hours.

All of you suck.


yep +1

10/10 of us would suck again.
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Post Post #2454 (isolation #265) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:43 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2447, Thor665 wrote:Also I don't care, really - since I'm about the only player who tried during Day 1...shock of shocks

(taking about to mean actually no one...)
nope i tried too but I have poor logic,
so while there was only do or not do,
I apparently not did. (My wagon got to L-10 )

So how about we stop the wallow and respond to my fairly reasonable question.

If I dont buy the Perev is scum because he called you scum for him thinking you had potentially TMI,
why else is he in your opinion scum exactly?

Indeed it was me getting bored, and thinking I am being lazy that made me do ************something************.
Also I thought unvoting would get your attention...

Also Slaandar was winning, he needed something for it, as you will never give an inch.

In post 2450, Thor665 wrote:

Ooooh, actually Axle was *on* the Pere wagon - it's now one more vote away from lynch.


Apparently Slandaar "winning" the argument with me equates to Pere not even being scummy anymore -

Well as Slaandar winning would mean a central plank of your case fell down ... then maybe yes?
Unless as I asked, there are other parts to it, that have details...

or does your entire case depend on knowing that PereV really didn't think that was TMI tell.
because if it does, the GoodMorning or my TSO case looks better to me.




On the topic of having a whinge.
Well lets see, your wagon is not at majority and thats everyone elses fault?

What is everyone elses fault is failing to push a wagon of their own...
Lets take TSO who not only wont push the wagon he wants lynched he wont even answer frickin questions about it (Now Garmr is following suit?)

he(TSO) wont answer the questions from someone he(TSO) scum reads... because they(Axle) might misrepresent him (thereby looking making TSO scum read look scummier)
and for this he gets widespread reasonless townreads and nary a vote.

So yep actively avoiding doing anything at all is super totally endorsed by this town...

Is it plausible this game has 4-5 3rd party survivor roles?
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Post Post #2455 (isolation #266) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:45 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Garmr
In post 2453, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2452, Garmr wrote:Whine

Seriously?

If you don't think I have a point - do something about it to prove me wrong.


or prove your wagon right?
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Post Post #2457 (isolation #267) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:58 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2453, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2452, Garmr wrote:Whine

Seriously?

If you don't think I have a point - do something about it to prove me wrong.


Well flipping PereV could prove you wrong.

Talking about your wagon only having townies on it.

Thor if you really town read your wagon as only having townies on it.

How come?

(note I personally 9.9 times out of 10) hate "this wagon went too easy it must be on town", or "this wagon met resistance it must be scum"
I find wagons usually acquire some scum even if they are on scum.

Is a plausible explanation that they all dont really want to be associated with a town PereV lynch?
or they all set their course at somewhere else before they realised it might be driven through.

Do you actually town read GoodMorning's vanity push on you?
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Post Post #2460 (isolation #268) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:16 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2458, Garmr wrote:
In post 2455, AxleGreaser wrote:@Garmr
In post 2453, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2452, Garmr wrote:Whine

Seriously?

If you don't think I have a point - do something about it to prove me wrong.


or prove your wagon right?


I think my wagon is right I have brought up my views on it in my last response to you or did you miss it?


Nope but you, decided to follow in TSO footsteps.
You claimed
In post 2441, Garmr wrote:axle this is the last time I'm going to talk about that initial conversation with anne


So I am being very careful about how and when i respond to that as you have already paved the way to posting
la la la I cant hear you...

because yes i have serious problems with your read.
I not only don't want to vote it, I am also considering how scummy I think it makes you.

but as i only get one shot.. before you stop posting responsively and all of town endorses that as how to play mafia...

but yeah lets examine your 'case'.
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Post Post #2481 (isolation #269) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:53 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2441, Garmr wrote:axle this is the last time I'm going to talk about that initial conversation with anne

fuck It here it goes. What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him. Annenin comes in and trys to dismantle my case because he doesn't agree (Town motive)/wants to discredit(scum motive what I think) he fails to do so as my points still actually stand. I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.

Plus I have Labeled other reasons why I think annenien is scummy especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.

That's the short of it.


Lets do this one bit at a time
Garmr: "What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him."
here is way you described it earlier
Garmr: "It's the fact you tried to discredit my points. Which you weren't able to then you just brushed it off passively by saying oh well we don't agree. It really cut any progress on boonskies short as he hasn't provided much content."

So if he failed to discredit your points how did it cut any progress on Boonskies?

While that may be bad play (and personally I do try not to cut across other peoples lines of enquiry.
have you examined how Aneninen plays to see if it was something thats just bound to happen, with how he plays?
He comments on sooooo many things in a post by post way, that if he sees something and has a point of view he posts it.
So Aneninen's natural play is just likely to do that and in 3/4 of the games you play with him he will be town and your likely to scum read him for that....
Seems to me like your tell on him is not very reliable. (You will find him to be scum in 100% of his games)

Garmr: "Annenin comes in and trys to dismantle my case because he doesn't agree (Town motive)/wants to discredit(scum motive what I think) he fails to do so as my points still actually stand."

Well he may or may not have tried to dismantle your case.
At the moment I am trying to find out if your case is genuine but wrong, genuine and right and I ought vote it, or scum motivated.
On the other hand as he does know Boonskies play, he may have just been being helpful. I was being helpful but more discreet when i asked you if you had seen a previous Aneninen game.

So somehow the fact that he in your opinion failed to convince
you
that
your
case was wrong makes him scum?
I tell you that is damn high bar to set. You failed to convince me my points against TSO were wrong, does that make you scum?

In fact his(Anens) points were a largely valid. (but unusually expressed.) (See for matching numbers below)
1
Anen said:
Boonskies is Boonskies:
That is to me clearly a claim that Boonskies is playing in way that is compatible with his(Boons) own town meta. Now you can dispute that, but you never have disputed that.
At the time you appeared to even dispute the concept that Boonskies playing according to his town meta would negate your point at all.
"how is that even a defence boon skies is boon skies."

Do note. Clarifying yourself as Boonskies did about his RVS post is a self consciousness tell. Thor is right, to be a better townie Boonskies should stop doing that. If many players did that, I would go hmmm. However for Boonskies nowhere near so much.
Also in that very specific example I can understand how Boonskies could be worried his second vote might be mistaken as serious. (some people appeared to have exited RVS)

2
You claimed Booon doing jack all was scummy(implicitly scummier than other people). That he has done the same stuff as lot of other people does mean that information does not make him scummier than them (baring refinements from meta) Eg If Thor had done as little as Boon... that would be very weird.

Point 3
is very weird.
You claim his intention is to dismantle and discredit your case yet you claim you thought he strengthened one point. HUH!
That is much more consistent with his own description that he was only questioning your reasons as being bad (inconsistent with the facts) not actually purposefully commenting on Boonskies alignment.

However if you go little deeper than Aneninen did. It is sad but tue that Boonskies often really does not comment on much, and him continuing to play VI and be proud of it is not particularly alignment indicative.
There is very good reason Thor considered boonskies(IIRC) and some other players fine Vig shots. it is because they are habitually information free zones.

Garmr: I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.


So you believe he made , then you challenged him at on points he didnt think he would be questioned about
and then he made up and wrote in 5 mins flat?
and made points that I have just argued that I find valid?
Sounds to me like he did in fact have those arguments at the top of his head and just typed them when he saw and read your post.

Garmr: to be questioned on 418 becuase he just
labeled me as scum
because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game,

Holy over sensitive souls....
He said in 418
In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Garmr, 360: This was just WTF. What Tha Fukk.


In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Garmr, 415 – that vote, uhhh. If you have told that you had voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it. But, what kind of reasoning was that?

Which asked a question so I sure hope he was expecting a response...
and
In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Garmr is FoS-Scum.


Ok
FoS
Garmr
For being overly sensitive about people scum reading him even a tiny bit. Scum are survival oriented and more likely to overreact to suspicion.
So did I do it right?
Garmr: especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.

Re victim posts. Do they actually seem out of character? Remember me referring you to a prior game?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5963842
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5963940
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5964725

Also that is the weirdest chainsaw / wk I ever saw, 418 lists reasons he claims are believable for your read....
Aneninen:
voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it.
Worlds best white knighter.
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Post Post #2482 (isolation #270) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:59 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2478, Garmr wrote:But I get the feeling his played mafia

see wiki 6 games on another site.
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Post Post #2483 (isolation #271) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:08 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2478, Garmr wrote:he was the one attacking the annienen wagon.


You are aware it(Aneninen) is an easy mislynch wagon?

That makes it very good place to look for scum, trying to get an easy mislynch, or pretend they mistook bad for scum.
It is also place legitimate townies may fuck up and mistake bad for scum.
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Post Post #2484 (isolation #272) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:13 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2482, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2478, Garmr wrote:But I get the feeling his played mafia

see wiki 6 games on another site.

ignore this that Garmr comment was about Dave
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Post Post #2485 (isolation #273) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:25 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2464, Thor665 wrote:I didn't town read them for voting Pere,


and I am pretty sure I did not say you did for that reason.

My view was the scum had been afraid to get on it.
Which is why I looked elsewhere.
Thats one of the reasons I suspect that if PereV flips anti town it would be SK.
The scum don't know it is not a mislynch, so they were more happy than usual to be the reluctant consolidators.
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Post Post #2489 (isolation #274) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:49 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2488, Shiro wrote:Eh I dunno I am not going ot vote for Thor wagoon cause it makes absolutly no sense, and now after the re reads I feel relucant to vote for Anen. He does seem like a nicely placed mislynch. God damn it...Dx


Welcome to my problem.
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Post Post #2490 (isolation #275) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:04 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2488, Shiro wrote:1. Well when pressured and your response is pooping it did make me raise an eyebrow but then again he was pressured with pretty much nothing. Soo..


If you link to what your talking about i can respond.
(Do you mean pooping (monkey dung post),
or popping(when I popped any pressure there was on Aneninen) which makes more sense with the rest of your sentence. )

Assuming Pop, or just because a summary time line is also important for a big picture idea.

Where did I pop it?
I believe I was quite careful not to harm any actual
legitimate towny push on Aneninen to determine his alignment or get him lynched if he was scum.

Tiem line

On Friday
I tickled it(Aneninen Wagon) at to be sure those on the wagon did know his meta....

I then tried to find out about Thor and PereV for a bit....
as that was bound to be important eventually

I poked Aneninen on Mon (just to look for myself)

On Tues (Fri Sat Sun Mon Tues... 4 days after the wagon first looked off, and I had watched where it went)

I asked TSO about his reasons...

Wed: I poke TSO more specifically to get actual reasons

Then the blah blah blah stone walling starts.
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Post Post #2492 (isolation #276) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:09 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2486, davesaz wrote:
I find AxleGreaser's focus to be scummy. All that posting in a direction, but IIRC he's been voting someone else the whole time.


Voting someone else who, while talking about what?

Its true when I moved my Vote to PereV my biggest scum read was not PereV, i continued to talk about PereV.

My vote is currently on Good Morning because of the reasons in the post where its made.

Please clarify.

Also which part of my focus was not looking for scum?
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Post Post #2493 (isolation #277) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:11 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2491, TierShift wrote:1 day 6 hours to deadline can the pere vote piling begin pls



That PereV wagon already has my sword(as compared with its current alternatives) ,
aka: unless whatever I am voting takes off and gets there first.

Thor claims wagons go by pushing them I am and have.

So yeah people really ought at the very least state their intentions about the major wagons, even if they claim they are actively pushing other things for now.
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Post Post #2494 (isolation #278) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:12 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2493, AxleGreaser wrote:aka: unless whatever I am voting at the time takes off and gets there first.
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Post Post #2497 (isolation #279) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:26 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2496, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2485, AxleGreaser wrote:My view was the scum had been afraid to get on it.
Which is why I looked elsewhere.
Thats one of the reasons I suspect that if PereV flips anti town it would be SK.
The scum don't know it is not a mislynch, so they were more happy than usual to be the reluctant consolidators.

Meh, by that stated logic scum only like to vote scumbuddies.


Nope, that is not the conclusion of that logic.

My statement was not a general one about all lynches of people who scum know might be town. (its only might as scum dont know who is SK if anyone)

It was a statement about that particular lynch, which includes both who it was being run on and the grounds on which it was being run.
How often does Thor run a lynch and it fails this hard....?
Either town is stupid this game, or the lynch wagon and case is not as good as it often is.

My view was the wagon and the arguments for it did not look very convincing, I thought scum would think so too.
Ergo they would stay off it
more
than usual.

Your representation of my logic is false.
This probably why you have previously erroneously concluded my logic is bad.
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Post Post #2500 (isolation #280) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:44 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2498, Shiro wrote:@Axl I meant anen not you xD


Shiro (modified)
1. Well when pressured and your(Anen) response is pooping(pigeons) it did make me raise an eyebrow but then again he was pressured with pretty much nothing. Soo..

yes thats what I interpreted the poop posts to mean.

Anen claimed he had been pressured over rubbish
While TSO and many other more mainstream would say
In post 421, T S O wrote:That's trash.

Aneninen expresses himself more uniquely. (<<a Lols youtbe link/ "PFJ splitters") and is thus more likely to get stoned.
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Post Post #2501 (isolation #281) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:48 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2499, TierShift wrote:nope shiro that is just in newbies where she is IC.
I don't think she's been particularly evasive or vague here. The opposite, actually.

You can just be lucky I had a townread on your predecessor, shiro...


So you are clear on why GM is voting Thor?
Well yeah, I suppose tone/feelings/...

and you expect we will have clear answer to Slaandars question?
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Post Post #2519 (isolation #282) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:17 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2518, TierShift wrote:What's the VC at?


getting there.

VOTE: PereV
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Post Post #2523 (isolation #283) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:11 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2522, Egg wrote:Which is exactly what I was bitching and moaning about...


quite possibly prematurely
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Post Post #2533 (isolation #284) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:06 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2509, Egg wrote:Pretty sure we are going to no lynch.

^^^ what Id seen just before that
In post 2528, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2523, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2522, Egg wrote:Which is exactly what I was bitching and moaning about...


quite possibly
prematurely

:neutral:
:neutral: :neutral: :neutral: :neutral: :neutral:


sigh.

make more sense with that before it? nvm.

I am in a my heart bleeds for
first world problems
frame of mind.

My mind also kinda erased 2520 in hope that it was not the beginnings of a fake hammer gambit.
That would have really cheered me up.
Fortunately it was just a miscount.

Also FYI: This never ending day/game has had me listening to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW9-FOLG-iA
on loop

so :neutral: back at you for not just letting the day die quietly, in peace
RIP D1.
Its dead Jim, or will be soonish.
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Post Post #2576 (isolation #285) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:05 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

The earlier details of your hard/soft claim
In post 1253, Boonskiies wrote:There's a reason I soft claimed and not full claimed. I never usually can stay active during large games early phase, so I believed if I hinted at my role a little, it would cause some discussion and allow myself to not seem like I'm not putting anything forward. It has created discussion, and therefore I feel as it was a success. Day 2 I should be much more useful.

In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:I'm playing the way I am for a reason. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely
the main subject of Day 2
.


Day 2 details of your claim
In post 2563, Boonskiies wrote:Anenien was very prominent in our neighborhood last night, along with Iz.
I claimed that I have a protective role in the thread
, and also asked who people thought would be worth protecting.
I did not claim any role, nor will I be doing so toDay
. The way I said it made it seem like I had a limited use, which Iz pointed out in the thread also. I feel Iz thought he could get some town cred by not killing me after I claimed that I was a protective role, since he most likely thought I was just some noob not knowing what to do, and since he thought I slipped that I had a limited power role, he'd be fine not killing me. I expect there to be at least one scum in my neighborhood, since we are the biggest neighborhood, and Anen is now dead. Goodmorning, Shiro, and Iz have at least one scum there, and I'm banking on it being Iz.


Yesterdays days claims and todays, Dont line up.

Explain why you think that was going to be
"main subject of Day 2"


As Iz pointed it out in the thread.... (hence everyone knew)
Your argument that Iz wanted town cred for not killing you... ALSO means everyone who read that also gets town cred for not killing you...
If there is town cred for not killing you, then it is some evidence that there are no scum in your hood as no matter who the scum is they saw what Iz pointed out..
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Post Post #2577 (isolation #286) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:07 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2575, Boonskiies wrote:and due to the outcomes of the night, there hasto be scum in my neighborhood.


No there does not.

(It may be true there is very likely scum in the hood, but not because of some theory you just put forward.)

Especially not one that makes Iz scum because of information everyone in the hood had.
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Post Post #2583 (isolation #287) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:21 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2578, Boonskiies wrote:Yes, but anyone else would have known my role may be limited. Things during the night changed how I'm going to react to it. There isn't town cred for not killing me. There is for Iz. It's a mixture of everything that was said. I'm following Aneninen's lead throughout the talk of night 1, mixed in with my own reads. It's not just the not kill me thing. God damn, read the posts.


as everyone read what Iz had to say, then everyone else has the knowledge is has.

did god damn read the posts. (except I cant read the ones in the hood. So either explain the 'mixture of everything' or expect everyone not in the hood to ignore your claim.

I believe this claim
In post 464, Boonskiies wrote:It's true. I be cray cray.
I'mmmmmmmm BOOOOOOONSKIIIIIIIEEEESSS. I'm a village idiot. Plain and simple. I talk of hypothetics, semantics
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Post Post #2584 (isolation #288) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:23 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2579, Boonskiies wrote:Iz just makes the most sense as of right now.


and you have provided no actual reason why.
I am not skimming. Youre not saying.
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Post Post #2585 (isolation #289) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:26 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:
I'm playing the way I am for a reason
. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the main subject of Day 2.

In post 2581, Boonskiies wrote:This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the main points of discussion.


No on D1 one your claim was about your role being "the main subject of D2"
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Post Post #2588 (isolation #290) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:31 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2580, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2574, Slandaar wrote:You should assume the hoods are random. Anything else is just bad.

fuck no. Even if Aegor were all like "HEY I HAVE A GREAT IDEA, I'M GOING TO MAKE A GAME WITH THREE HOODS BUT ASSIGN SCUM RANDOMLY" the chances of all scum being outside of the hoods is very very small. + there's some really scummy/suspicious players in the hoods anyways.


fuck yeah.

Its true that if the hoods were assigned randomly then there is still very good chances there are at least some hood in 5P hood.

The chances there were some scum in a3P hood were even pretty good.
However, its mathematical fact that if the hoods were assigned randomly, then now that two townies are flipped in Thors hood then the chances of Thor being scum are exactly what they were before.

There are indeed scummy people in Hoods.

but the observation of who is in hood has zero relevance for scum hunting, unless you claim or assume non random assignment.

Sorry. Not debatable, just facts.

So yes the chances of scum all being outside the hoods is indeed small, and if there are scummy people in the hoods, make a case and lynch them for their scumminess.
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Post Post #2589 (isolation #291) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:32 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2586, Nero Cain wrote::facepalm:

can't tell if Axle is scum or dumb.



fine dunmbarse show me its me who is dumb?
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Post Post #2592 (isolation #292) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:48 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2563, Boonskiies wrote:
The way I said it made it seem like I had a limited use, which Iz pointed out in the thread also.

and having pointed it out anyone who is scum in your hood also has the same knowledge as Iz.
I feel Iz thought he could get some town cred by not killing me after I claimed that I was a protective role, since he most likely thought I was just some noob not knowing what to do, and since he thought I slipped that I had a limited power role, he'd be fine not killing me.

And again as Is pointed that out in the thread, everyone in your thread has that knowledge.
I expect there to be at least one scum in my neighborhood, since we are the biggest neighborhood, and Anen is now dead. Goodmorning, Shiro, and Iz have at least one scum there, and I'm banking on it being Iz.

Cool you thinks it is Iz. (as shown above your reasons above are not reasons for thinking it is in particular Iz, as every person in the hood, has the same propoerty, they all read what Iz said.


In post 2572, Boonskiies wrote:Aneninen also mentioned some kind of plan to build a wagon on Iz, and he died. Someone in my neighborhood is scum.

yes, and as you knoted with Thor scum can kill people for a variety of reasons.
They can kill Egg to setup Thor, Thor can Kill egg to make it look like he was setup...

They can Kill Aenninen because ooo aaah they afraid how much town sheeps Aneninens wagons... (no wait)
They can kill Aeninen so that townies can jump to the conclusion Iz did because he was scared.

Its called WIFOM for a reason.

So do you have any reasons, that we all can see to think Iz is scum?

In post 2579, Boonskiies wrote:Stop fucking skimming.

So I didn't fucking skim and now I have rebutted the significance of your points.
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Post Post #2593 (isolation #293) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:51 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2589, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2586, Nero Cain wrote::facepalm:

can't tell if Axle is scum or dumb.



fine dunmbarse show me its me who is dumb?

In post 2590, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2588, AxleGreaser wrote:There are indeed scummy people in Hoods.

Who in the hoods are scummy and why?


Good morning is scummy for the reasons stated yesterday when I voted him.


Now start justifying the "facepalm dumb claim you just made."

Because frankly its making you look scummy, as making baseless insults that put people down and denigrate their opinions is a scummy way to argue a point.
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Post Post #2596 (isolation #294) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:58 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2587, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2585, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:
I'm playing the way I am for a reason
. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the main subject of Day 2.

In post 2581, Boonskiies wrote:This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the main points of discussion.


No on D1 one your claim was about your role being "the main subject of D2"

Boons 2581 was saying that...see....mods know what they are doing. When a mod makes a game with hoods they EXPECT hood talk and thats what he was saying. So this looks really misreppy.



You may want to claim its misreppy.

BUT I asked this question

In post 2576, AxleGreaser wrote:The earlier details of your hard/soft claim
Spoiler: other bits
In post 1253, Boonskiies wrote:There's a reason I soft claimed and not full claimed. I never usually can stay active during large games early phase, so I believed if I hinted at my role a little, it would cause some discussion and allow myself to not seem like I'm not putting anything forward. It has created discussion, and therefore I feel as it was a success. Day 2 I should be much more useful.

In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:I'm playing the way I am for a reason. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely
the main subject of Day 2
.


Day 2 details of your claim
In post 2563, Boonskiies wrote:Anenien was very prominent in our neighborhood last night, along with Iz.
I claimed that I have a protective role in the thread
, and also asked who people thought would be worth protecting.
I did not claim any role, nor will I be doing so toDay
. The way I said it made it seem like I had a limited use, which Iz pointed out in the thread also. I feel Iz thought he could get some town cred by not killing me after I claimed that I was a protective role, since he most likely thought I was just some noob not knowing what to do, and since he thought I slipped that I had a limited power role, he'd be fine not killing me. I expect there to be at least one scum in my neighborhood, since we are the biggest neighborhood, and Anen is now dead. Goodmorning, Shiro, and Iz have at least one scum there, and I'm banking on it being Iz.

Yesterdays days claims and todays, Dont line up.

Explain why you think that was going to be
"main subject of Day 2"

Spoiler: other bits
As Iz pointed it out in the thread.... (hence everyone knew)
Your argument that Iz wanted town cred for not killing you... ALSO means everyone who read that also gets town cred for not killing you...
If there is town cred for not killing you, then it is some evidence that there are no scum in your hood as no matter who the scum is they saw what Iz pointed out..




He made this POST
In post 2581, Boonskiies wrote:This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the [color=#FF000]main points of discussion.[/color]


I interpret that as reply to me.

Where is the misrep?
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Post Post #2597 (isolation #295) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:59 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2594, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2593, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2589, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2586, Nero Cain wrote::facepalm:

can't tell if Axle is scum or dumb.



fine dunmbarse show me its me who is dumb?

In post 2590, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2588, AxleGreaser wrote:There are indeed scummy people in Hoods.

Who in the hoods are scummy and why?



Now start justifying the "facepalm dumb claim you just made."

Because frankly its making you look scummy, as making baseless insults that put people down and denigrate their opinions is a scummy way to argue a point.

Delayed OMGUS in 3...2...


You dodging the question
the question started already.
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Post Post #2598 (isolation #296) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:05 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2595, Nero Cain wrote:but he's also ignoring the fuck out of that post.


who are you addressing here?

are you claiming I ignored this post and its the justification of dumb or scum?

who are you talking to?
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Post Post #2599 (isolation #297) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:09 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2596, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2587, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2585, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:
I'm playing the way I am for a reason
. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the main subject of Day 2.

In post 2581, Boonskiies wrote:This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the main points of discussion.


No on D1 one your claim was about your role being "the main subject of D2"

Boons 2581 was saying that...see....mods know what they are doing. When a mod makes a game with hoods they EXPECT hood talk and thats what he was saying. So this looks really misreppy.



You may want to claim its misreppy.

BUT I asked this question

In post 2576, AxleGreaser wrote:The earlier details of your hard/soft claim
Spoiler: other bits
In post 1253, Boonskiies wrote:There's a reason I soft claimed and not full claimed. I never usually can stay active during large games early phase, so I believed if I hinted at my role a little, it would cause some discussion and allow myself to not seem like I'm not putting anything forward. It has created discussion, and therefore I feel as it was a success. Day 2 I should be much more useful.

In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:I'm playing the way I am for a reason. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely
the main subject of Day 2
.


Day 2 details of your claim
In post 2563, Boonskiies wrote:Anenien was very prominent in our neighborhood last night, along with Iz.
I claimed that I have a protective role in the thread
, and also asked who people thought would be worth protecting.
I did not claim any role, nor will I be doing so toDay
. The way I said it made it seem like I had a limited use, which Iz pointed out in the thread also. I feel Iz thought he could get some town cred by not killing me after I claimed that I was a protective role, since he most likely thought I was just some noob not knowing what to do, and since he thought I slipped that I had a limited power role, he'd be fine not killing me. I expect there to be at least one scum in my neighborhood, since we are the biggest neighborhood, and Anen is now dead. Goodmorning, Shiro, and Iz have at least one scum there, and I'm banking on it being Iz.

Yesterdays days claims and todays, Dont line up.

Explain why you think that was going to be
"main subject of Day 2"

Spoiler: other bits
As Iz pointed it out in the thread.... (hence everyone knew)
Your argument that Iz wanted town cred for not killing you... ALSO means everyone who read that also gets town cred for not killing you...
If there is town cred for not killing you, then it is some evidence that there are no scum in your hood as no matter who the scum is they saw what Iz pointed out..




He made this POST
In post 2581, Boonskiies wrote:This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the [color=#FF000]main points of discussion.[/color]


I interpret that as reply to me.

Where is the misrep?


@Boonskies
if that is not a reply to my post

stop fucking skimming and answer my post.
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Post Post #2600 (isolation #298) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:13 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2594, Nero Cain wrote:Delayed OMGUS in 3...2...


huh?

You think I am going to OMGUS you for some weak kneed, limp wristed push like this?

In post 2587, Nero Cain wrote:maybe Axle
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Post Post #2601 (isolation #299) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:17 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

PC note: The reference to limp wristed(meaning 2) is a descriptive reference to the lack of force with which it is made.
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Post Post #2603 (isolation #300) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:49 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2602, Boonskiies wrote:You realize good morning is in my neighborhood, right?


as I regard neighborhoods as not alignment indicative it wasnt important.

but yes, I realize that.

Is there something in my posts that makes you think I dont?


You are still not clarifying if you have or have not responded to
Is there problem with explaining how your D1 statements line up with your day 2, refinements on your soft claim?
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Post Post #2604 (isolation #301) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:10 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2602, Boonskiies wrote:You realize good morning is in my neighborhood, right?


also please start actually reading what I write..
Spoiler: What I wrote
Trimmed quote
In post 2593, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2590, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2588, AxleGreaser wrote:There are indeed scummy people
in Hoods
.

Who
in the hoods
are scummy and why?


Good morning
is scummy for the reasons stated yesterday when I voted him.


are you trying to work stuff out at all?
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Post Post #2605 (isolation #302) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:41 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2590, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2588, AxleGreaser wrote:There are indeed scummy people in Hoods.

Who in the hoods are scummy and why?


Also
In post 714, Scripten wrote:My neighborhood is davesaz, Nero Cain, and TSO. I believe this may have already come out, but I'd like it in my ISO for people to see.


Scum read TSO
Same reasons as yesterday for TSO.

What kind of question is
that?
(apart from a distraction)

@Nero Cain

Were you unaware that I had found TSO quite scummy yesterday and posted multiple times on why?

So yeah do note when I said there were scummy people in the hoods, I didnt have current list, of which people I found scummy were in hoods,....
(I did only remember at least some were)
because

being in hood has nothing to do with whether or not I view them as scummy.

but you a person who is interested in hoods,
have paid enough attention to me to decide <
nope you understand my positions and find them scummy enough to lynch today...
>

but also
Don't know, my stated scum reads recent and major, are in hoods?

or what exactly is the purpose of your question?
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Post Post #2606 (isolation #303) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:47 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@GARMR
Its new day but

respond to .

I spoent long time yesterday getting to the point where I was sure you both understood Aneninens meta,
and understood "Boonskies is Boonskies: is a claim about Boonskies meta

and still stood by the kind of reasoning you put in

so Id like to discuss my criticism of your position that I put in as i find some of your reasoning not to make sense as coming from a towny.
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Post Post #2632 (isolation #304) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:46 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2607, Boonskiies wrote:I'm not answering it because you'll just come up with an ignorant response, so I decide that I'm better off just ignoring you so I don't get frustrated.


Oh noes I have duel of wits with Boonskies
VOTE: boonskies
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Post Post #2643 (isolation #305) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:08 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

Spoiler: fluff
In post 2613, Garmr wrote:-takes a sip of my coffee see's axle debating both boon and nero's convo, opens up my deck pulls out a gun shoots myself-

Only one problem.. if they are scum you gotta work it out. If they ar town you gotta work it out, there is not enough mislynches to go around.


I would discuss what happened in my neighborhood qt but I don't have one.

I talked to myself.



@Axle

I'm willing to answer questions as long as they don't get caught up in one subject and we get stuck debating the same thing for the whole day so take them as final and if you have any criticism about it just note it and move TO ANOTHER POST.
In post 2481, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2441, Garmr wrote:axle this is the last time I'm going to talk about that initial conversation with anne

fuck It here it goes. What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him. Annenin comes in and trys to dismantle my case because he doesn't agree (Town motive)/wants to discredit(scum motive what I think) he fails to do so as my points still actually stand. I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.

Plus I have Labeled other reasons why I think annenien is scummy especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.

That's the short of it.


Lets do this one bit at a time
Garmr: "What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him."
here is way you described it earlier
Garmr: "It's the fact you tried to discredit my points. Which you weren't able to then you just brushed it off passively by saying oh well we don't agree. It really cut any progress on boonskies short as he hasn't provided much content."

So if he failed to discredit your points how did it cut any progress on Boonskies?



@Garmr

You missed a question

If your points were still valid and sound how did the pressure just go away and you not pursue Boonskies?
Spoiler: what pressure on boonskies?
I also have to say the pressure you applied, in is not exactly something to write home about, seeing as you just recently said
In post 183, Garmr wrote:I Still feel a bit uncomfortable with you because you had to say it but I guess it answers my question.

In post 346, Garmr wrote:I'm going to be honest I'm lost now and don't know what to think.


I have difficulty believing you went from that (A really thin new read on Boonskies), to thinking Oh wow my pressure on Boon was so strong, Aneninen must have come in and chainsawed him...
Which then later transformed (after the soft claim) into Aneninen WK'd him
To also claim that based on just one little part of Aneninen's walls of comments, strikes me as rather self absorbed. Which is also a thing scum do.


garmr wrote:
Axle wrote:
While that may be bad play (and personally I do try not to cut across other peoples lines of enquiry.
have you examined how Aneninen plays to see if it was something thats just bound to happen, with how he plays?
He comments on sooooo many things in a post by post way, that if he sees something and has a point of view he posts it.
So Aneninen's natural play is just likely to do that and in 3/4 of the games you play with him he will be town and your likely to scum read him for that....
Seems to me like your tell on him is not very reliable. (You will find him to be scum in 100% of his games)


Well he flipped town so I guess you were right about this bit but I
never played a game with him
before and this was different than his newbie game(can chalk that up to trying to improve but did the reverse?)

yeah I had the guessed, after I saw the Aneninen flip, that you might approach the day this way.
You do indeed now(or always did if you are scum), know your push was wrong.
the flip however relieves none of my concerns that you were pushing a read in way, for reasons, I found inconsistent with you being town.
and although you
never played a game with him
that was the exact reason I referred you to an appropriate game to get a feel for him.
Spoiler: BTW @Aneneinen
I regard your play here as improvement, this environment (large normals are hard) I could reasonably have expected much worse as town.


So far... Uncontested points.
Spoiler: Garmr not considering timing
In post 2481, AxleGreaser wrote:
Garmr: I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.


So you believe he made , then you challenged him at on points he didnt think he would be questioned about
and then he made up and wrote in 5 mins flat?
and made points that I have just argued that I find valid?
Sounds to me like he did in fact have those arguments at the top of his head and just typed them when he saw and read your post.

Failing to consider timing is not inherently scummy, but having scum reads inconsistent with the facts, kinda is, as scum dont really have to try and work stuff out they just make it up and have tendency to stop when it looks right enough (but is still little inconsistent).

Garmr being
over sensitive about being labelled scum

Spoiler:
In post 2481, AxleGreaser wrote:
Garmr: to be questioned on 418 becuase he just
labeled me as scum
because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game,

Holy over sensitive souls....
He said in 418
In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Garmr, 360: This was just WTF. What Tha Fukk.


In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Garmr, 415 – that vote, uhhh. If you have told that you had voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it. But, what kind of reasoning was that?

Which asked a question so I sure hope he was expecting a response...
and
In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Garmr is FoS-Scum.


Ok
FoS
Garmr
For being overly sensitive about people scum reading him even a tiny bit. Scum are survival oriented and more likely to overreact to suspicion.
So did I do it right?
Garmr: especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.

Re victim posts. Do they actually seem out of character? Remember me referring you to a prior game?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5963842
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5963940
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5964725

Also that is the weirdest chainsaw / wk I ever saw, 418 lists reasons he claims are believable for your read....
Aneninen:
voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it.
Worlds best white knighter.



Garmr wrote:
I'm going to take a step back and look at this game with different set of lenses.

if you are town that would be a very good idea.
I think its probably a good one if your scum as well,

PS I may or may not have deleted important bits out of my original post this edit got unwieldy at some points.

Spoiler: meta discussion
(discussion about discussion)
Finally I know you want to move on.. as you now know Aneninens alignment.
I don't know yours yet.
I am not sure how you know mine.
So no I wont be talking about what you choose.
I think your day 1 reads on Aneninen, claimed interrupted push on Boonskies were hinky and scummy, I want to understand them.
Do feel free to pursue other things on D2, if enough of them look towny, I might find I need to press other people more.
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Post Post #2650 (isolation #306) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:26 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2647, Garmr wrote:Also wtf is with that Misrep My vote came off boon when I started reading him as town why do I need to apply pressure on a town read?

I did not say that

you claimed, that
In post 2441, Garmr wrote:What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him.


You claimed you wanted to go on pressuring Boonskies but Aneninen stopped you

You claimed he stopped your pressure by failing to refute your points.

The misrep is yours, of me
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Post Post #2651 (isolation #307) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:33 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2647, Garmr wrote:@Axle you should vote me lets make this a 1v1 you and me.

I don't have big enough ego or flair for the dramatic, to assume that if I Vote and you vote me that the rest of the thread will pay any attention to it.
Also the day is long I have yet to decide who i think most likely to flip scum.

You appear to not care so much.
In post 2647, Garmr wrote:so that's why i want to improve the latter.

Improving would start by trying to make the day about lynching scum, and not going for a 1v1.
I am not sure you are this bad, and care so little about whether you really are scum reading scum, but it is still possible.
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Post Post #2652 (isolation #308) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:56 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2634, Boonskiies wrote:Axle's voting me even though I've made it pretty obvious that I'm a PR. Interesting. I'll hop on a wagon that starts on Axle if no one sees Iz as scum. @Flubb - Thank you. You also just got finished with my last scum game, and will be able to tell if I'm scum or not pretty easily probably.



You are aware the question I was asking was to verify that you are infact playing consistently with what you claimed D1.

If you aere not playing consistently with that, and refuse point blank to talk about whether you are or not.

Then from my perspective you are not a power role.
If that matches other peoples perspective they will vote you too.

Sooner or later VI or not, you will get the message you cant just do any shit you like just because you claim (fake or real)
oooh ahh i am an unspecified kind of power role.
That is not a you dont have to play anymore card.

Explain that your play is consistent with your day one claim and I will unvote you?

You wan to to lynch me because
In post 2607, Boonskiies wrote:I'm not answering it because you'll just come up with an ignorant response, so I decide that I'm better off just ignoring you so I don't get frustrated.


you dont want to be frustrated.
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Post Post #2653 (isolation #309) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:59 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2639, Izariael wrote:Personally, I have my doubts that you are what you say you are, but for today I'm fine with not pushing for proof.



I am pushing for what he said already to make sense, and be explained, not proof. (aint no such thing BTW)
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Post Post #2654 (isolation #310) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:15 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2642, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 2634, Boonskiies wrote:Axle's voting me even though I've made it pretty obvious that I'm a PR. Interesting. I'll hop on a wagon that starts on Axle if no one sees Iz as scum. @Flubb - Thank you. You also just got finished with my last scum game, and will be able to tell if I'm scum or not pretty easily probably.


Yeah this claim is a carbon copy of your tracker fakeclaim.


You mean this one where after N days of being fake claimed tracker...
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p6346649

he flipped mafia encryptor.
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Post Post #2656 (isolation #311) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:27 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2655, TierShift wrote:I'm yet to form an opinion on boon's push on iz and his reaction to it. It all reads a bit vague to me. Is there any reason the plan boon was talking about cannot be fully disclosed?
In post 2632, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2607, Boonskiies wrote:I'm not answering it because you'll just come up with an ignorant response, so I decide that I'm better off just ignoring you so I don't get frustrated.


Oh noes I have duel of wits with Boonskies
VOTE: boonskies

Oh god, you are the fucking worst. You vote everyone who disagrees with you and afterwards you are the most bullheaded person ever. If this is a characteristic of your town game, stop sucking.

I've always seen being bullheaded as a town characteristic until recently a scum player used that to completely catch me off-guard. (GM knows!) It's an easy way to not contribute and I'll meta now.


I dont vote for him for disagreeing with me.

Its for not being prepared to play the game and answer the damn question.

Do you know if his claim is real or faked?
I dont
So I want him to clarify what the hell he meant D1.
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Post Post #2720 (isolation #312) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:25 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2696, Thor665 wrote:Shiro is scum due to gut and wagon
placement
.


are you saying due to when he voted?

If so are you saying hes scum because he replaced in, then read, then voted? WAT?
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Post Post #2730 (isolation #313) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:14 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2681, T S O wrote:It still hasn't really sunk in for me that Aneninen flipped town.

I have no idea where to go from here.


one place you could go is...
yesterday you claimed you had legitimate reasons for voting Aneninen...
you promised to give them to the thread. you even claimed you were doing it.
you didnt.
Now that scum conveniently killed him for you....

I imagine you now have no intention of ever providing the reasons you repeatedly claimed that you had and were getting together.
What a convenient shame.

In post 2680, T S O wrote:Axle can you please stop fucking posting because my access is shitty quality atm and your insistence to quote fucking every post on the page lengthens my scrolling severely.



says the man with the most posts in the thread
they are vacuous because you dont refer to what you are talking about (links nor quotes)
nor do you provide reasons as you claimed you would for your plenty of scummy things the now flipped towny did.

However me stop posting
Sure thing

prod dodge.
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Post Post #2733 (isolation #314) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:25 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2697, Scripten wrote:
In post 2696, Thor665 wrote:
The only way that becomes an issue is if everyone else treats it as a 1 v 1. Otherwise it is simply two players cross voting - aka, two wagons.


Intent is important. Doesn't the intent to spawn a 1v1 make you cringe?



It does/did me, because to "really" want a 1v1 as bad town you have to already be 100% sure the other guy is scum...
(I know he is 100% wrong but you dont) So ignoring that
However from your point of view read back and find where his 100% conviction comes from? does it even make sense?

Look at , try and talk yourself into believing that at that time Garmr was on the verge of being 100% sure I was scum,
that he is nearly so sure that he wants to commit to a 1v1 (where at least his if no one elses) attention can tunnel down on his one sure scum read?

yeah bullshit.
Garmr's 1v1 is a convenient pile of an excuse. It smells of scum expedience. It is playing into his own self aware meta.
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Post Post #2751 (isolation #315) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:30 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2742, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2716, Scripten wrote:It's a problem if posts get lost in the noise and conversation is stopped because of it.

That is either a problem of people not reading or people not making clear points - neither are caused by intent to 1v1.

In post 2720, AxleGreaser wrote:If so are you saying hes scum because he replaced in, then read, then voted? WAT?

Why do you think this is what I said?


We post from different time zones. (often long turn around times on convos) If post as if we are having a real time convo it wont get anywhere ever, before deadline. I need to speed it up by jumping two steps
My post said, and you didnt answer

In post 2720, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2696, Thor665 wrote:Shiro is scum due to gut and wagon
placement
.


are you saying due to when he voted?

If so are you saying hes scum because he replaced in, then read, then voted? WAT?


The first question is an open ended question as what you said does not make clear sense to me. It is not a statement where i can say "Thor said this" (well i can quote the words but their meaning is vague.)
and you have not even then taken the opportunity to clarify your thoughts on what about "placement" you find scummy.
I don't know whether you find vote order placement to be scummy, or timing, or which wagon... (as there was by the time Shiro signed not an actual real choice.)

I am not questioning the gut part, as some stuff seems hinky, but newer/noobier players always feel hinky to me(so I discount that feel of mine)
so having faciltated an entry that is not marred by shock and awe approach to scum reading, I am now still looking.

This however is a bullshit question.
In post 2742, Thor665 wrote:Why do you think this is what I said?

I think its what you said because I read your words, and quoted your words
and asked two questions, trying to find out just what it is, that you were claiming was scummy
You answered neither...

gee ta.
you really are facilitating me getting a better read on you so well, I can hardly contain myself.

@Thread.
If the game is (1,2,3,4,5,6) I am in the one person hood. If anyone else is in a one person hood then its not that.
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Post Post #2754 (isolation #316) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:08 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2752, Boonskiies wrote:Good morning thinks you scum slipped also. Your speculation wasn't genuine.


and goodmornings opinion is important to you because since post becuase you now read Gm as town for what reason?
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Post Post #2756 (isolation #317) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:14 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2753, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2751, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2742, Thor665 wrote:Why do you think this is what I said?

I think its what you said because I read your words, and quoted your words
and asked two questions, trying to find out just what it is, that you were claiming was scummy
You answered neither...

gee ta.
you really are facilitating me getting a better read on you so well, I can hardly contain myself.

That's not valid because you acted confused and/or outraged by the conclusion you drew. You don't type WAT? at the end of a simple interrogative for clarification. You type it when you find the previous stance questionable.

So, a simple question or two to you;

1. Did you find my stance objectionable?
2. Why did you choose to use 'WAT?' in your response to me?
3. Walk me through your understanding of what I said - because you appear to make a couple of odd leaps and I don't follow them at all.

You seem to understand the idea of trying to understand others. That is great - but don't ding me for "not answering" your oddly worded question because I'm clearly trying to understand it and you. You don't get to complain about that.

To answer your question - I see no reason to deduce that placement has to do with timing. I did not mean it as such and am intrigued that you translated it as such and wish to explore that idea.


Bollocks i type WAT where I type WAT.

I cant find an interpetation of your post that makes sense, hence WAT.
You said
In post 2696, Thor665 wrote:Shiro is scum due to gut and wagon
placement
.


I can see gut, I found no interpretation of
placement
that makes sense.
So no I
Cant
walk you through it, because it didn't and does not make sense. and so far you refuse to provide any explanation that does make sense of what you said.

I fully expect there is one as there usually is, and usually I can see it, but no I cant see it. WAT.
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Post Post #2757 (isolation #318) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:16 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2753, Thor665 wrote:Did you find my stance objectionable?

answer my question and tell what your stance actually is and then i will see if I have an opinion or just meh?
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Post Post #2759 (isolation #319) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:07 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2758, Thor665 wrote:Nah, you bore me.


You make me laugh. Often with you, this time at you.
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Post Post #2761 (isolation #320) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:05 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2696, Thor665 wrote:Shiro is scum due to gut and wagon
placement
.


In post 2753, Thor665 wrote:To answer your question - I see no reason to deduce that
placement
has to do with timing.
I did not mean it as such

So its not timing...

So... as Shiro has only voted for
your PeregrineV wagon
late in the day when there was not much other choice...

and its not the reasons but the "placement"

I am still at WAT?
and have even less idea what your words mean.
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Post Post #2782 (isolation #321) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:00 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2775, Garmr wrote:@axle
I'm curious as to why you didn't vote me when you obviously are pushing the scum read on me and you left your vote on boon. I essentially did what I did to a greater extent and I'm not considered a VI I expected you to shift your vote to me but you keeped it on boon. And after that you actually pushed against me yet didn't bother shifting your vote why?


One good reason was to see what you would do.

This post of yours conveys to me a sense that you are not currently certain 100% I am scum.

When you offered to go 1v1 were you certain that I was scum.
If so Why?
and when did that certain read form based on which posts?
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Post Post #2783 (isolation #322) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:06 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2775, Garmr wrote:he your tying to push a role out of him while trying not to look like it that's fucking scummy man.


No I am trying to make him clarify how in any sense his already public D1 claim about his role, was true.
He clearly is blowing off one vote, and why the hell not,

If other people agree he ought clear that up a bit they will apply pressure too.
If not, what is the actual harm of me registering my distrust of his claim like this?

Meantime, I interact with other people. Well any that can be bothered.

If people want to lynch me for that fine.
With the number of people who wont even fucking play the game, there is not a whole lot of use i am to town.
It really kinda fucking pointless.
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Post Post #2784 (isolation #323) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:08 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2775, Garmr wrote:This shows me your interested in finding out boons role rather than his alignment.


Nope I thought his claim looked fishy on D1 now it looks worse.
His already public statements about his role seemed too promise some kind of confirmation or more info would be forthcoming today.
Its not
he lied.

I voted.
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Post Post #2785 (isolation #324) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:11 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2775, Garmr wrote:Also what happened to your read on tso you were so sure his scum but you haven't pushed him in the slightest today you just mention you still think his scummy?


Yep but whats the point in voting a one man vanity wagon all day. various people are convinced hes town.
No reasons just categorical statements.

There aint no way to play with that so I wont.

You and some others vote him and see if I will hammer it....
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Post Post #2786 (isolation #325) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:12 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2781, Shiro wrote:Well it did seem terrible at the time but Boon does blow it out of proportion.


mmmm funny about that.
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Post Post #2822 (isolation #326) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:03 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2787, The Fonz wrote:Question of why Axle dropped TSO suspicion a good one.



How many times would you like me to point out in a row that I think TSO is scum? (for the same old reasons?)
(If he does new particularly scummy things I will be sure to let you know...
is mainly gibberish if you were not in his hood.
but
In post 2736, T S O wrote:Actually, Axle, the hood asked me to do it, and I posted today that I was going to.

seems like it retrospectively clarifies
In post 2557, T S O wrote:I'll get down what you wanted.

"I will get down to what you wanted" apparently means "do it"
When he does it I will find out whether that actually means finally at last several weeks later say why he found the wagon he was
fake pushing
was scummy....
or whether he will again simply try to prove Aneninen was bad... again...

Got a sensible suggestion how I sensibly (considering all aspects of game theory...(hint)) argue with this
In post 2403, Slandaar wrote:Axle...

TSO is town.


given this now standardised response

In post 2758, Thor665 wrote:Nah, you bore me.


I will at some point today vote for who i think is scummiest and most plausible to be lynched. Maybe at the same time maybe (like yesterday) not.
is mainly gibberish (unless you were in his hood.

So yeah you can basically expect large parts of the player base to bore me, as it simply doesn't want to play.
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Post Post #2823 (isolation #327) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:14 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2788, Garmr wrote:My read of you formed day 1 when I noticed your behavior change you stayed out of the direct line for a bit. But then pounced on tso

I found scum? I should ....

and then you changed. You went from semi passive that mediated things to extremely aggressive constantly attacking even in situations you didn't need to. A lot of your stuff was filler dressed up as content and you would repeat the same thing over and over instead of finding something new.

Given you are the guy who claimed.
1 Anenine failed to refute your points.
2 Failing to refute your points, interrupted you pushing boonskies (which you had stopped and only maybe slightly just started again...)
3 When examined his points about your reason were actually valid.
4 You stuck to those points anyway, even after i carefully made sure you understood what "Boonskies is Boonskies" means

You will forgive for doubting the veracity of
attacking even in situations you didn't need to.

You are not able to or be in position to judge didnt need to. You especially are not in psoiton to do that as you have not done the towny thign and tried to find out why I did the stuff you view as bad.
You have decided its bad and scummy and wagons are go 85%....

Thats how scum play they find someone they can paint as scummy then do so.
They have no need to check if they are right.

Its true (I think but have not checked) I repeated some stuff perhaps when i didnt need to, i was operating under real world duress.

Got any actual, reasons for thinking I am scum...

other than OMGUS, stemming from when you first found out I actually suspected all the people crappy (made up looking) reasons for voting Aneninen

but had started with TSO because he failed to have any actual reasons, then refused to provide any, then wasted large swathes of my D1... stalling... and still is?
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Post Post #2824 (isolation #328) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:17 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2790, davesaz wrote:I don't like how Axle is spending most of his time putting up walls at/about Garmr but not voting him. Same thing happened yesterday and clogging up the thread is a scum tactic.

VOTE: AxleGreaser


why?
because you are unable to read my reasons unless my vote is there too?

I voted TSO all of yesterday it was pointless.

Do you have any actual objections to my posts about Garmr?
Are they not relevant to his alignment?

Your vote bores me.
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Post Post #2825 (isolation #329) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:38 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2796, davesaz wrote:
In post 2792, Flubbernugget wrote:Dave is that your only scum read?


No, but I can only vote one. I don't trust Boon's claim but am not ready to take action on that yet. TSO's missing case on Anen was pretty scummy and he would have a motive to kill Anen to get out of having to provide a case.

Are you trying for summiest, player I have(had?) a town read on award?

Your argument is...
1
You also agree with me
that Boonskies claim is iffy, and yes there is one vote on Boonskies, I agree you being ready to put a second is a different question...
2
You also agree with me
that TSOs missing case on Anenine sucks balls, (rant about TSO [...elided..], even I am bored by how scummy he is. )
3
You agree with my
unstated (explicitly) suspicions about the NK. (pretty sure i can find the implicit statements)


In post 2793, Slandaar wrote:Axle is town.

This statement is missing a "because" clause. I don't like that for town statements any better than I do for votes.


but as you claim to only want to or be able to do one thing at a time...

you claim I really must vote one person and push one person...

Nah (at this time) I don't want to have long discussion with Boon, if hes town PR, I dont want to compromise him,
(well given how carelessly he just soft claimed on D1, compromising him seems not as important as usual, any second now he might just full claim for VI, cray cray, related shits and giggles. )

However my one stated question, that his D1 claim (about what would happen D2) does not line up with his D2 play stands unanswered. At this time, I like my vote there, it feels just right.

Also personally
Boonskies has recently demonstrated he can play, solo winning as scum at 3 man lylo with fake claim he held from d1....
If he is on my team, and wants to live after I die, he had better consider my vote on him as a reason to actually play some more, because I will flip town.
He also better consider the possibilities that he got manipulated in that neighborhood.
He from my perspective relies rather a lot on people he professes not to be certain of the alignment of.
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Post Post #2826 (isolation #330) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:18 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2787, The Fonz wrote:
Question of why Axle dropped TSO suspicion
a good one.


actually here is good question.

@Fonz

For
that
to be good question, there would have to be actual examples of TSO doing scummy shit that I should have commented on but didn't...

Do you have any... like even one.

and if you do? then you didn't post about them because... ?

Hey Fonz. You dont seem like the kind of player that just flings shit.
That (unless you saw TSO do new scummy stuff I could have commented on and didnt and you also chose not to...) feels like shit flinging.

How come?
Show me its a good question.
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Post Post #2827 (isolation #331) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:44 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2690, T S O wrote:
In post 2687, TierShift wrote:'But as scum you don't catch scum, eh?' To finish that sentence?

Actually as scum I'd probably somehow be more competent at catching scum than as town.

That would be a real trick.
In post 322, T S O wrote:But I don't actually bus as scum in general - I've done it once so far, excluding deadline busses, as far as I remember. It's kinda a point of pride for me.


You now claim to have meta where you don't bus (as point of pride) but are better at catching scum as scum that town.

Pinocchio how long is your nose?

Wanna show me some links of you catching scum as scum without bussing?
and you being better at that as scum than as town?
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Post Post #2828 (isolation #332) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:57 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

EBWOP to

The second part of the quote doesn't really belong in the post at all.
Axle: "but as you claim to only want to or be able to do one thing at a time..."
refers to
Dave: "No, but I can only vote one. "
in the first quote

Axle: "you claim I really must vote one person and push one person..."
is the basis of your vote post.

"Clogging up the thread" with things and topics you find game/alignment relevant is also... seriously peculiar position to hold.

Clarify your position, it make no sense at all.
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Post Post #2832 (isolation #333) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:10 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

I am going to return to yesterday for just sec. Its probably not important but its point I couldn't be bothered arguing yesterday, as time could quite well win the argument for me and it did.

In response to this
In post 2454, AxleGreaser wrote:On the topic of having a whinge.
Well lets see, your wagon is not at majority and thats everyone elses fault?

What is everyone elses fault is failing to push a wagon of their own...


Thor clipped out the middle sentence and replied.
In post 2464, Thor665 wrote:
Yes, it is.
Though apparently Slandaar thinks that's my fault...somehow.


Hi Thor.
It turns out everyone else (who is town) was right to not just vote your wagon. (so they were not at fault)
and as I said, what they were wrong for doing was not pushing or voting better wagon on scum.
Well people did other shit wrong too, but that was a biggy.
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Post Post #2833 (isolation #334) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:13 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2831, Flubbernugget wrote:Considering 2826, this may be the scummiest townslip I have ever seen, and I really don't know what to think of that.


So please explain how this is a scummy townslip?
I am pretty sure i can beat it back into, nope its just Axle being hyper rational again.
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Post Post #2834 (isolation #335) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:22 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

Also what do you think of TSOs total BS (self contradictory) about his own meta
He apparently simultaneously both does and does not catch his scum buddies as scum.
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Post Post #2835 (isolation #336) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:47 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

:(
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Post Post #2838 (isolation #337) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:25 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

Spoiler: probable fluff
In post 2836, Slandaar wrote:Don't be sad Axle you only need to wait 24 hours for my next point against Shiro.


be still my beating heart.

If only everybody who voted people was at least as diligent as you...
then we could actually play mafia kinda, instead of playing hide the
sausage
reason for voting your scum read. (et al)

Although I admit I was little scared you had meant you would post one reason per game day... (not RL day)
Sorry for doubting, my expectations were set that low by my previous experience at trying to extract reasons/explantions from players which has left me jaded.
(well that and other external things)

Anyway so far no joy on Shiro,
I didn't like your first reason enough to join your wagon. It was for me a bit better than Thors, so hey you beat him again!

I do look forward however to arguing I did not town slip. (scummily or otherwise) that looks like fun.
(slip claims almost always bore me. Killing them is a civic duty.)
(actually I probably did town slip, as I am town, but the information required to confirm it (what I did when) is not available in thread)
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Post Post #2839 (isolation #338) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:52 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2837, Slandaar wrote:If you want a serious response:


probably about 11/10 times that would be correct.
however could easily settle for 9.

Ta. Ill go see if i can see TSO is town or whether he still seems like demon spawn to me.

Just thinking it through, (from memory)(and some reading)
and while I perhaps like that as general rule, (town make wild arguments, scum make safe ones)
TSO only provided points in the end, when it was clear I was pushing hard. I think he had clear signs he ought come up with more than tone fluff as he had already claimed.

Spoiler: preexisting TSO general vague but extravagant claims
In post 383, T S O wrote:I really don't agree with anything Aneninen is saying right now.


In post 481, T S O wrote:Do I have to respond to Aneninen's posts of bad?


I am pretty sure it would not be hard to guess that Aneneinen as town or scum would simply fail to respond effectively to such an attack. providing he doesnt push the wagon too hard TSO is now in nice safe place.
he has already verified that Thor wont be terribly upset if Anen gets mislynched... (or viged)

I am not really seeing what you say is there.

In post 1074, T S O wrote:Don't get me wrong, though, he's done plenty of scummy shit.


I am pretty sure that TSO ragging on(berating) Csareo and then Aneninen both looked safe.
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Post Post #2842 (isolation #339) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:01 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2837, Slandaar wrote:If you want a serious response: TSO is town because I liked a couple of his points on Anen even if they were shot down they are town arguments. Town arguments are quite wild and unique a lot of the time. Scum tend to use safe arguments.

[...] (I would use Shiro but ha you have to wait) You can't accuse her for her argument it's so safe. And that is her only argument. Then take this scumslip look how safe she is. She is trying to say she wanted input on it as she was unsure.



Spoiler: Only open after 24hrs..?
hey that point on Shiro has traction. Problem. Context. Newer players in scary (large game, lots of posts, late entry) will tend to play safe even as town.
but that is certainly now a rock I will look under.
Also I guess this tell means you cant read Majiffy or Varsoon for shit with it yeah?
Thus
Are you sure it works on TSO?
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Post Post #2844 (isolation #340) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:19 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2837, Slandaar wrote:Town arguments are quite wild and unique a lot of the time.


This one looks looks like a pretty wild and wooly justification for a vote.
Pop quiz.

Town or scum?
In post 279, Cho wrote:Because TierShift wants to. Because I want to. I thought I made that clear.


Spoiler: why I dont like horoscopes
I tried an experiment where i had someone read out the daily horoscopes and I had to guess which one matched my day.
They failed utterly to do better than random, and usually several "matched" quite well.
Humans are really good at imagining pattern matches.
Its a thing.
So are double blind tests.
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Post Post #2845 (isolation #341) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:23 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2843, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1065, T S O wrote:
In post 42, Aneninen wrote:Hi,

I haven't fokking read anything and won't do so right now because I'll go to work soon. However, I like the fact that there are 21 players here. Obviously, I won't self-vote so I can roll a d20 for a RVS vote.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Oh. Reasoning for the vote. We want to adopt a kitty and my sweetheart is talking about one who was posted on Facebook yesterday. If we had that kitty right now, he would vote on you. We must respect the kitty's will.


He rolled a dice for his RVS vote, before then giving reasoning for the vote.

Why do fucking both of them?

It is quite risky to use the RVS post as you know people are going to go 'That's an RVS post scum!!!'. I know the context of the post too and this still applies.


I will think about that one. (yeah i know the context too. and that is strangely what might actually make your argument.)
It will probably take
at least
24hrs...
Like for real.
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Post Post #2850 (isolation #342) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:56 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2846, Slandaar wrote:
Never misread Majiffy in 4 games I think it is. Varsoon eh I don't remember him much I was scum the game I played with him and read him correctly. You have to apply the right things to the right people... I tend to find the use an RVS post late in the game is town near enough universally though because scum will later drop it as it was an RVS post while town hang onto it.


yeah but TSO didnt just rely on RVS by choice.

As town or scum TSO has been posting with consistent air of superiority and hence having no need to be bothered with making actual replies to the likes of
Csaero, Aneninen then me.
(The safe part of his early strategy was he just treated his scum reads with ignore as being beneath contempt, and not worthy of response.)

When he made post , he just threw a big pile of crap at me and expected I would not be able to do anything with it,
as he also rather safely

Chose not to provide any reasoning that the posts were scummy. Hence nothing to refute.

It was me that initially chose RVS as the ground to discuss as he had claimed it was part of the answer to my query for scummy posts.

In I specifically challenged TSO

I believe that he would think that as scum he can make up a plausible sounding case on anyone about anything.
Well, one good enough to fool me.

he did try.

Now , is interesting. In it he is perhaps(?) admitting he is lynching Anenine for having ridiculous posts?
I never really understood what he could man by "hardest to back up"?

hardest for me to back up?
or hardest for him?

back up what?

'What the fuck I was doing' was showing that TSO was not voting Aneninen because he thought Aneninen was scum
he was voting him because TSO thought Aneninen would be easy meat and that Thor was Ok with it.
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Post Post #2851 (isolation #343) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:58 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2849, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2844, AxleGreaser wrote:
Pop quiz.

Town or scum?
In post 279, Cho wrote:Because TierShift wants to. Because I want to. I thought I made that clear.


I don't think it means anything. He is clearly putting on an act there for one reason or another.


and as per my last post I think TSO has been putting on an act.
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Post Post #2882 (isolation #344) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:54 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2854, T S O wrote:That comment was incredibly obviously about scum-TSO in multiball, given he would have a Cop clear on at least 2 people as his scumbuddies.


nice try
and that would make you no more competent at catching scum, on the other team as they now form a smaller fraction of the remaining players.
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Post Post #2886 (isolation #345) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:59 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2862, Slandaar wrote:I think TSO always acts. But ignoring that; I don't think the act he is using makes him scum.


The act is why, his reads were based as they were and your tell less relevant than it sometimes is.
The act was to slam at perceived weaker players, never state actually why they were scummy, (as opposed to bad (ergo weaker players)) and never look back.
Lots of bravado
In post 1113, T S O wrote:hardball


No substance. (especially none that can be refuted as it fails to reference specific examples.)

Safe.
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Post Post #2891 (isolation #346) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:31 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2872, Flubbernugget wrote:implies he's never really played as scum before.

i did not imply that
i have but offsite. see wiki.
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Post Post #2895 (isolation #347) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:23 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2876, Izariael wrote:VOTE: Boonskiies
His last four posts and Flubber's fakeclaim meta () are the tipping points for me. :igmeou:

The other three are... (also :( )
but
In post 2858, Boonskiies wrote:Alright then, let's vote Thor.
VOTE: Thor
Thor is the
slot where I'm most curious about
right now. Egg/Pere were town, and Egg was killed for a reason. A Thor lynch will tell us why.

vs
In post 2619, Boonskiies wrote:
Thor's town
. And it's multiball...


A towny player cant just be making unequivocal statements, and then later going "I am most curious about", lets lynch thor for information that then wont mean anything as the whole neighbour hood will be dead.

looks like ritual suicide...?

It is not a town way to play...of that I am sure.

but its sooooooo bad. To call it scum I have to say he's trying for too bad(boonskie) to be scum?


@Boonskie

Yo Boonskie. You may have claimed you didnt need to answer my earlier questions
Spoiler: outstanding questions
Question 1

In I pointed out: You exhibited implicit trust of what Gm says
In post 2752, Boonskiies wrote:Good morning thinks you scum slipped also.

yet had just recently FoS'd GM in
Explain why you cite the opinion of people you FoS, as if they are authority
TLDR:
(You appealed to authority of person you FoS)

Question 2

Also asks you about your D1 claim about main subject of D2, and yet on D2 the details all change?

For me at minimum, you have renegged on the details of your D1 claim hinting,

your original soft claim hinty stuff is now of the form
"Boonskie claims he has a power role" other than that it is 100% open ended...
it may be investigative, protecive, killing or survival role, hell it could be masons, or scum
(things it cant be are limited to 3 shot self reviver... I hope)

but but you claimed its protective overnight... and yesterday you claimed your play to be the major topic of D2.
So that inconsistency could do with explaining too.
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Post Post #2898 (isolation #348) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:29 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2888, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2884, TierShift wrote:So uh, you townread boon?

I do - I have said so a few times and have not
changed my opinion
.


Well to be precise... (only changed in one direction and begrudgingly) and yes not recently

Earlier
Spoiler: Thor Said: It's obviously scummy though, so work with that
In post 136, Thor665 wrote:
In post 135, TobyLoby wrote:I don't think Boons anything is obvious.

It's obviously scummy though, so work with that.

and even though he had claimed
Spoiler: Thor Said: Boonskies was a fine lynch. && I'm indifferent on the claim && policy
In post 932, Thor665 wrote:I kind of feel I already said Boonskies was a fine lynch.
If I haven't, I'll say it now.
Considering the state of the Pere wagon though I'll simply note a bullet to his face would not leave me sad.

In post 871, Thor665 wrote:I'm indifferent on the claim - I leave it to Boon to make his wn value call. [...]

In post 937, Thor665 wrote:
In post 933, Boonskiies wrote:Are you suggesting that I'm policy lynch that you think I'm a fine lynch? I wasn't (still not completely) caught up with the thread so my posts couldn't have had actual content. There is absolutely no reason to lynch me other than a policy lynch at this point, so I'd like you to expand on your thought of why you feel I'd be a fine lynch please.

I find people consider policy lynch such a dirty little word...yet many of these same people defend themselves as unlynchable because they're not really providing content.

Hint - that makes it scummy. You're playing in a way to make yourself hard to lynch while also not providing help to town. That is scum play.
If it helps you disprove and dismiss my case you can call it 'policy'.
It is my policy to lynch scum.


later however (You claim your position has
changed! begrudgingly
)
Spoiler: Thor Said: begrudingly shifting to town due to Dave,
In post 1022, Thor665 wrote:
Boonskiies - lurksack, begrudingly shifting to town due to Dave, but still a useless slot.


In post 1026, Thor665 wrote:
2. Dave's point about theory scum Boon motivations. I agree with it.

In post 1291, Thor665 wrote:
Boon - poor play, but don't want to lynch or see dead at this point and concider it worse play for scum (ergo - leaning town to some degree)

In post 2075, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2070, Scripten wrote:Fine, question extends to the rest of you lot, then. Boon fakeclaim more likely to be town- or scum-motivated?

If it's fake? Scum.
Don't want to bother lynching him now anyway.
Carry on.


Scanning daves earlier posts for the letters boon yields
none of those seem to be the reason. (did I miss one)

@Thor
please indicate which post by dave made you town read Boon?




Spoiler: me shooting down my own paper tiger
In order to try and go faster, but NOT attribute things to you or dave I cant find.
I will make up problem i had with thinking Boons claim was fake D1.

The claim goes nowhere as a scum plan.
On subsequent days when he doesn't deliver or play consistently with his claims he will get lynched.
Thus as plan it seems dumb.
but its boon so whats the problem?

Also Boon, just successfully claimed D1 and rode it all the way home for the win.
I see no problem with Boon believing fake claiming D1 as scum is a good plan.
(especially if he does it different, superficially changes surrounding meta.)
I especially see no problem with it as he wanted all his focus on the other game he was at the time maybe riding home to an epic victory?
Fake claiming in this game, gave him an easy D1.
From his point of view if he becomes his teams sacrificial goat for later day Bussing action, then he could well have been fine with that.


So if dave or ??? (
whatever changed begrudgingly your read
) had better argument boon was town (due to "concider it worse play for scum") which post?
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Post Post #2908 (isolation #349) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:56 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2899, Boonskiies wrote:Well, I was basically just trying to see goodmorning's reaction from the vote. I've felt that it's hard to get into for me.
A Thor lynch for me would be informational for me.
People say he's scummy. They're paying more attention than I am. I'll believe you. I didn't really read like any of day 1. I just want a lynch to happen.


In post 2619, Boonskiies wrote:
Thor's town
. And it's multiball...


You idiot.
Apology. Your play is idiotic.

You are a fine PL. FFS.

UNVOTE: Boonskies

@Thread.
Please note I have no idea whether i actually mean the unvote. (consider that as null)
Yeah like really.
Id prefer to try and scum/town read the output of http://qrng.anu.edu.au/
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Post Post #2915 (isolation #350) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:53 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2909, Thor665 wrote:if scum give a reason you're not voting him

I am busy doing something else. :) (reading an ISO looking for post that appears not to exist...)

If my read is he is on the scummy side of the player list, the reason I wouldn't be voting him at this time would be
I had better things to do with my vote.
I expect time will make me surer
hes not at the head of the list

or one of the many other reasons i usually dont vote people at this time.

HTH HAND.
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Post Post #2920 (isolation #351) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:19 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2916, Boonskiies wrote:I thought my two shot BP
made sense
for it to be bulletproof. Why else would it be there? There's probably a SK in this game instead of a second scum faction.

In post 572, Boonskiies wrote:I'm
almost positive
it's multiball. My role basically implies it.


rubbish
you change your story so fast my head spins.
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Post Post #2924 (isolation #352) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:40 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2909, Thor665 wrote:Go to his iso, use Ctrl+F for 'Boon' find a post where he's talking about Boon and his claim and how he doesn't see it as a valid scum move.

Ok.
Looking prior to your post where you referred to it. ()
Spoiler: here is every post where Dave talks about Boon
In post 929, davesaz wrote:@Boonskiies: your Cho read is getting stale. What do you think now? Have you even considered questioning anyone or doing other scum hunting?

In post 648, davesaz wrote:
In post 646, Garmr wrote:
In post 562, Boonskiies wrote:Don't push me to claim, please.



In post 572, Boonskiies wrote:I'm almost positive it's multiball. My role basically implies it.

Kinda annoyed that someone would passively role claim day 1 with only one vote on them. If it is multiball all you had to do was wait one day and you could of keeped it hidden from scum. Unless your just saying that to get some town cred but that will sort itself out in time.

UNVOTE: boon

VOTE: Aneninen


Read . I don't think that anyone should claim as a result of this whole multiball thing. Though seeing this interaction it makes me want to consider going after everyone who mentioned it before the big conversation started to see if this whole mess is one big fishing expedition.

Spoiler: Every post where dave replies to someone who talked about Boon, but dave doesnt
In post 504, davesaz wrote:
In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 491, TobyLoby wrote:
@Pere
, What are your thoughts now that you've read the thread?

Varied and probably not very exciting, but here goes.

Players:
1. Aeronaut*- In some twist of irony has fewer posts than me. We'll see what the catchup police have to say about him, I suppose.
2. Alina- replaced? being replaced?
3. Aneninen- early scumvibes. Later, saying and doing the right things, but taking the meticulous post-by-post approach with no analysis of the posts along with the stunningly empty conclusion of Pere is scum (418). This can easily be compared to Thor's with actual reasons (even if wrong).
4. Boonskiies- Probably scum
5. Cho- thought the mafia claim was good discussion starter. However, it never went anywhere after that, nor was it used to start discussion. For that, downgraded from town-rvs to null (I think psychologically that when scum claim scum it helps relieve their conscious about being scum. If others take it as fake/humor, so much the better. In any scumclaim cases, esp. RVS, ) Nothing has improved the null read, including the wagon on him.
6. GrayfoxxxxCsareo- I liked for town at the start. That diminshed somewhat by the TSO tunnel. Grayfoxx is still got some town sheen, and has not degraded it any since taking over. We'll see how it goes.
7. davesaz- Early scumvibes. Improved somewhat, but still hits me when I read some of his posts. There is scumhunting there, but it seems of the cautious type.
8. Egg- Liked his early push on me. His later self-doubt I read somewhat as town, but keeping your vote there after expressing that doubt takes away the town cred. This is one I'm be exploring more of later.
9. Garmr- probably town.
10. goodmorning- Another player I usually start reading with a town bias towards their posts. So when I read them and feel icky, not a good sign. Leaning scum.
11. Goofyd00d- Early scumvibes. Some of the things he says are contradictions in and of themselves. ( and are examples)
12. hephaestus*- skimmed and will catchup later
13. Izariael- Already discussed. early townlean, but high expectations expected.
14. Muffin- Torn here. Outing neighborhood protown, but votes Cho as scum same post. claims I scumposted without a definition of why it's scumposting (very similar to Aneninen).
15. Nero Cain- early townvibes. We'll see if these stay.
16. PeregrineV- So town! My God, so town!
17. Scripten- early scumvibes. Some wording makes me wonder.392- A vote on him for "town cred" can only be town cred if Scripten is scum. Stuff like that keeps me from calling you town.
18. T S O- I think he's town this game. Probably means he's scum. Not my issue, but not voting him right now.
19. Thor665- early townread, but then downhill (slowly) from there, as he votes opposite my opinion. Kind of used to that, so not a full on scumread for that at this point.
The worst Thor post was calling this game multiball ( and ) for pretty much no reason (because it's 21 players?!?). Should there turn out to be 2 scumteams, I'll probably strongly advocate for a Thor lynch. Until then, I'll go back and forth with and about him trying to figure out if he is town that I just don't get or scum trying to trick me. Always fun. :]
20. TierShift- very early scumvibe, went away slowly. I see peeks of town, but not enough. Null for now, looking for more.
21. TobyLoby- Early null. The styling of some of her posts I think is town, but their delivery and followup are not there. It's like a one-way questioning but I don't think I've seen responses to the responses to her questions. Slight null-scum, but waiting for a strong read to pop.

More on this multiball thing- When otherscum have otherscum to hunt for, it's easier for them to look town. If it does turn out to be 2 scumteams, that would explain why most of the active posters aren't looking too scummy- they are also scumhunting. But, not crossing that bridge until we get to it, if ever.


I have a feeling that there will be people you're reading that I would say I don't have enough information on, so still null to me. I don't think it is fair to call that caution though. I believe being honest about nulls is town while making up a read on little or no evidence is scummy. Not extremely scummy, so not enough to use that by itself as a read.

One of your observations about Thor reminds me of something I've seen at another site. I want to closely re-read the thread before commenting on this further, so this part of my post is largely a reminder to myself to come back to it. Can't spend that much time on it at work. [spoiler2=""]Check my profile age if you want to know why the reminder lol[/spoiler2]

Thor the post you claim exists does not exist in this thread.

So no Thor I cant find the post.

Dave does not say what you claim he said in this game thread.


Could you try searching in another thread where you and Dave can both post but I cant see it?
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Post Post #2930 (isolation #353) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:13 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2929, davesaz wrote:I remember seeing something here that says substantially the same thing that Thor said, but don't see anything I said that could have even been construed to mean the same thing. I think it was probably someone else and Thor got the attribution wrong. Whether he got the attribution wrong by mistake or design, I leave to the reader to discern.


I maybe remember thinking (something like whatever it is), but don't remember reading it.
I want to read it to see if different view sheds more light or different aspect or adds to a town/scum read...

I tried for other posters, between when Thor held one point of view and then changed it...
No joy.

yeah lots of discerning
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Post Post #2974 (isolation #354) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:21 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2955, Thor665 wrote:
In post 969, Garmr wrote:I still don't like boon skies. But tbh I don't understand why scum would reveal they have a role that could confirm multiscum because that would make them more likely to be targeted in the night phase. This has me frustrated because I don't know how to interpret it.

@Axle - it was Garmr, not Dave.

I sort of pray for fireworks from this boring exchange but I pretty sure I'm just going to get a wet *pffft* sound instead. Joy.



and if instead of being a hardass and saying no you find it... you had tried youd have realised your error and Id have moved on days ago,.... (and wasted lots less time)
as it is, I see you claiming, reclaiming, and insisting on, one basis for your read then oops no its another.

but as Boon has become topic of serious interest then, clearing up not just for me or for you, where I or others ought stand based on his claim is relevant.
Most of the game is always pffft.
(Also considering the pffft, of your shiro vote for placement, which you feel disinclined to explain to someone who is not yet voting your wagon... not sure I care on how dissapoint you are)

so its one of these?
In post 969, Garmr wrote:
I still don't like boon skies. But tbh I don't understand why scum would reveal they have a role that could confirm multiscum because that would make them more likely to be targeted in the night phase. This has me frustrated because I don't know how to interpret it.

and he wasnt so that makes him town... yeah WIFOM but it always was. Scum might like the lack of certainty, where probably(usually?) mainly only they know.

In post 646, Garmr wrote:
Kinda annoyed that someone would passively role claim day 1 with only one vote on them. If it is multiball all you had to do was wait one day and you could of keeped it hidden from scum. Unless your just saying that to get some town cred but that will sort itself out in time.

and it might still sort itself out in time, but claiming to actually be two shot BP is bad/(convenient).
as scum quite possibly wont want to sort that out

I am
Not seeing it not being a valid scum strategy to claim a role, that wont sort itself out in time.
He appears to be on the require to be lynched list unless his actions independently prove him towny just as if he had not claimed.
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Post Post #2975 (isolation #355) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:41 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

Spoiler: the 2620 old post without much point
In post 2620, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2596, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2587, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2585, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:
I'm playing the way I am for a reason
. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the main subject of Day 2.

In post 2581, Boonskiies wrote:This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the main points of discussion.


No on D1 one your claim was about your role being "the main subject of D2"

Boons 2581 was saying that...see....mods know what they are doing. When a mod makes a game with hoods they EXPECT hood talk and thats what he was saying. So this looks really misreppy.



You may want to claim its misreppy.

BUT I asked this question

In post 2576, AxleGreaser wrote:The earlier details of your hard/soft claim
[spoiler2=other bits] This poiler elided for formatting[/spoiler2]
Yesterdays days claims and todays, Dont line up.

Explain why you think that was going to be
"main subject of Day 2"

[spoiler2=other bits]This too..[/spoiler2]



He made this POST
In post 2581, Boonskiies wrote:This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the [color=#FF000]main points of discussion.[/color]


I interpret that as reply to me.

Where is the misrep?

Well, Boon is a claimed VI. He softclaimed yesterday. He said he'd talk about it today. I think its obvious that his softclaim was going to be and will be for the remainder of the game until he flips (or full claims), a major point of discussion. As I said, he's a claimed Vi (and maybe I'm giving him too much credit here) I don't actually think he's dumb enough to go "hey ya'll are going to talk about me!" and then when you ask him why he thinks that (which was a super dumb questions anways) he talks about the hoods?


In post 2973, Nero Cain wrote:am also bummed that Axle didn't respond to my 2620


Well as I asked: Where is the misrep?
and your reply showed (or claimed to) " I think its obvious that "
then at best you claim that something being obvious to you, (and me thinking differently) is me misrepping someone?

So no I dont and did not take boons claim that on D2 his play would be a major topic of discussion, to just being a refernce to the fact that its claim.
Such an interpretation is foolish.

It is specifc claim about D2. Your explanation of that meaning applies to every day. If boon was merely pointing out he expected his claim to be discussed everyday until he flips then he would not have said specifically D2.
It was clear he had in his soft claim made representations that things would happen on D2. At least one reason I didnt press him D2 on his silly claim was he said, it would become clearer on D2. (so we wait, having waited) When it didn't then some part of his original claim had failed and been shown to be false.

I went looking for an answer to my question. I found something that kinda matched. I asked about it.
He said it wasnt reply. and that his actual unstated intention was to just ignore me.
I got actual clarity he intended to ignore me.
The alternative was to represent he had not answered me and ask why not.
I chose one course. (the one that let me quote what i was talking about...)

Please show a misrep... (or go away) I quoted the damn post in full...
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Post Post #2976 (isolation #356) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:53 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

EBWOP
In post 2975, AxleGreaser wrote:At least one reason I didnt press him D1 on his silly claim was he said, it would become clearer on D2.
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Post Post #2981 (isolation #357) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:36 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2977, Nero Cain wrote:Boon softclaims and says his claim will be a major point of discussion.

NOPE, that is not what he claimed at all. (ooo a misrep by you?)

In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:I'm playing the way I am for a reason. This reason shall be brought out, and
most likely the main subject of Day 2
.

you
left out "main subject" (which is more than major) it is majorest point of discussion (aka equal or greater than who we lynch today ...yeah right)and the day specific nature of his claim
he said Day 2

In post 2977, Nero Cain wrote:This is NOT the contradiction you think it is


hey I didnt say I think that was a contradiction (are you misrepping me again?)

In post 2977, Nero Cain wrote:sitting there and claiming that he contradicted himself when he didn't IS a misrep.


which would be why I never ever claimed that..... those points were a contradiction

I claimed his D1 claim about his play being the major topic of D2 as inconsistent with his play on D2.
I asked him about it.
He didnt (as it turns out answer) but I asked him about something he did say that looked to me, like it might have been a VI's cray cray answer
he said it wasnt and he had no intention of answering

The end. Go away.

I did not do what you claimed.

and no I expect that if you are town, you simply dont understand. (not misrepping) (maybe reaction baiting?)
if you are scum you are not trying to actually misrepresent me, but make noise. Dont know why you would, but if scum that would be it.

So no its not a misrep, and your not misrepping me for real at the moment, or you are doing such bad job of doing it I cant tell.

try reading, quoting what people really said accurately, instead of paraphrasing incorrectly,
instead of chasing your point without thinking.
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Post Post #2982 (isolation #358) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:37 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2979, T S O wrote:It's disturbing how much I like Nero this game.

Thor, will answer tomorrow - literally falling to sleep.

enemy of your enemy eh.
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Post Post #2983 (isolation #359) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:43 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2978, Nero Cain wrote:ok, you saw two nightkills, what does that make YOU think?



There is 2 scum teams with one nk each
or
There is a scum team and an SK.
or
There is a large scum team and chicken shit town Vig who was sure they were right and shot badly... and thus wont claim it. (even though clarity might well make that better than not)
or
There is one large scum team with multple nk. Either by direct formula such as( Number of scum/2 rounded down or up) or N shot scum vig.
or
sorry no more ideas. atm. (not sure whats in normal, nor site meta) (but bear in mind site meta changes when people look at other sites and copy ideas that have worked there)

So being sure would be a trick.
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Post Post #2984 (isolation #360) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:45 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2978, Nero Cain wrote:town 1v1 all the time, bro.


and I cringe, every time some dude reckons, hey if he thinks ****I**** am scum he must be scum
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Post Post #2996 (isolation #361) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:24 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2988, Nero Cain wrote:But ok, you've "won",

ta

and BTW thanks for snipping out the part of my words, which were important to my point where i said major point of discussion
of D2


Note i just returned the favour by badly snipping your words.
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Post Post #3003 (isolation #362) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:51 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2997, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2996, AxleGreaser wrote:which were important to my point where i said major point of discussion of D2

How many games have you played on this site? Someone claims/fakeclaims/softclaims w/e its going to discussion. Its a completely reasonable and expected reaction to assume that THAT (claim w/e) is going to be discussed.


Of course, but he didnt claim just that he claimed the more specific
In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:I'm playing the way I am for a reason. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the
main subject of Day 2
.


which is not what normally happens due to just a fake/real claim. That is not what that post implies at all.
(If he was saying it was just a natural consequence of claim it would not be specific to
D2
.)
That post implied his role had 'Juice', eg an investigative role... or something that would become central to the game. and it would happen
D2
.

It turns out he was self agrandising probably to try and draw a kill. I am betting scum called it as a bluff.

I'm not quite sure if the reason that you are arguing is 'cause you are new and therefore somewhat ignorant to common mafia activities or if you are indeed caught scum that tried to act like Boons was contradicting himself.

Thats a false dichotomy.

And boons D2 play up to that point, does in fact contradict his D1 claims, the role and how he played it, is is not central to D2 in any kind of good way.

@Nero


You are voting me, not just to get my attention but as
In post 2587, Nero Cain wrote:maybe Axle
maybe Thor
^
is p much where I want to go today.


Please state your reasons for voting me other than your claim of misrep.
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Post Post #3004 (isolation #363) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:51 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

Ok so explain why you wer voting me.
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Post Post #3017 (isolation #364) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:13 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3003, AxleGreaser wrote:

< This deleted for clarity part is where I showed a third option> Iam not ignorant of "common mafia activities" and they did not
at that time,
line up with boons D1 claim >


I'm not quite sure if the reason that you are arguing is 'cause you are new and therefore somewhat ignorant to common mafia activities or if you are indeed caught scum that tried to act like Boons was contradicting himself.

Thats a false dichotomy.



In post 3006, Flubbernugget wrote:Axle I can't parse your posts right now but you've gotten me lynched as town before by not knowing the difference between a dichotomy and a false dichotomy.


In post 3009, Flubbernugget wrote:Okay yeah. Don't just say "false dichotomy" and think you're hot shit. Give the other options.


Ok I will try to be clearer.

Also sorry about Nero.
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Post Post #3022 (isolation #365) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:24 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3013, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3003, AxleGreaser wrote:Please state your reasons for voting me other than your claim of misrep

Didn't know I need a long list of reasons to think a player is scummy but still, the fact that Boons said "my claim will be an important disscussion on d2." is absolutely irrelevant. He softclaimed and then expected it to be discussed. Period. End of discussion. There was no contradiction or inconsistency from Boons.


NOPE That is not what he did. Its certainly not the end of the discussion as you just misreped what he actually said. AGAIN.
He soft claimed and he claimed in the thread
In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:I'm playing the way I am for a reason. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the main subject
of Day 2.


This makes specific reference to D2, not that his claim will be discussed in general as you want to interpret it.

His early play on D2 did not live up to that claim.

His later claim that he is a 2 shot BP, that make more sense. How much I have not yet decided.
I believe for me lynching or not lynching Boons will be primarily based on his posts, not his claim.
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Post Post #3023 (isolation #366) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:25 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3018, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3017, AxleGreaser wrote:Also sorry about Nero.

Why are you sorry about me?


you were chewing on his leg.
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Post Post #3024 (isolation #367) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:28 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3013, Nero Cain wrote:Didn't know I need a long list of reasons to think a player is scummy but still,



but if I am your biggest scum read and where you want to go today and i have hundreds of posts and things I have said...
Either all of them are somehow null to you,

or you appear to be basing you biggest scum read (at that time recently it flipped to flub.) of what seems to me almost nothing at all.

I'd like to verify that actually is what you are doing.
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Post Post #3026 (isolation #368) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:51 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3025, Nero Cain wrote:Day 2 comes after day 1, so why should he have not expected for us to discuss his claim/play on d2? What you are arguing is wrong.

Yes so does Day 3 also comes after D1 , but he didnt specifically claim each day after this, he stated it was D2 where his play would be the major point of discussion.
The claim also implied NOT D1.
Here it is again
In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:I'm playing the way I am for a reason. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the
main subject of Day 2
.

That is not just pointing out, hey some time ago I claimed guys and i know youll be talking about me heaps. It is specific claim about himself.


That occurred before ^^^^ the BP claim

He's a claimed BP, could he be scum? Sure. Yea, trying to draw a nk as BP makes some sense. Could he fake that? I guess. He's not someone I want to lynch today though.


Yeah the BP claim makes some sense, and I don't know if i want to lynch it either.
That why I am not voting it at this time.

So again I ask you reasons for voting me, as where you want to go today seem little thin.
Is that all you have as basis?
I looked in your filter, I dont see anything else. Did I miss it.

Or was your whole reason based on that so called misrep and that is the best read you have.
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Post Post #3027 (isolation #369) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:59 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3025, Nero Cain wrote:I found flubs asking for opinions on me(his town read) to be strange. Explain what you think the town motivation is in that?

Err.... No.

Even if I do or dont have a plausible town motivation for that, If I explain it then he can just agree yeah id id for that reason.
If you think its scummy press him about it.
(Stuff being posted by other people that I see no good motivation for at all, is also not unusual for me.)

What is your read on Flub and why?

Later. Not changing topics for the moment, and I really ought be doing something in RL, so it will be a bit later. (perhaps this will do but there is no why)
TLDR: unlikely to vote flub today, unless someone posts "an Oh fuck why didn't I see that case". or something new and scummy happens (from memory)
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Post Post #3029 (isolation #370) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:43 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3028, Thor665 wrote:And yet, despite all that, you actually go nowhere with it.


You seemingly get nowhere with many things you chase down.
yesterday you chased down
scum
town PereV.
yesterday i chased TSO, a lot for not much.
(Still noting he is now standing up his hood, having stood up people who asked in the thread, having stood up me...)
(gee those reasons must be really hard to make up)

Today i did eventually get your reason, for town reading Boonskies from you.

I could instead have assigned a vague weight to the strength I usually give your reads, (allowing for my uncertainty of your alignment)
(bearing in mind you claim you can fool me every time as you want me in 100% of your scum games) (I probably have to doubt every read of yours unless I see it too.)
instead I thought it important enough as Boon is acquiring votes, to find out for myself how accurate and valid I thought your (borrowed from
dave
,garmr ) reasons were.

So no I didnt get nowhere.
I got that I dont particularly like and as reasons to think Boon is town.
Thus i should give less weight to your opinion on that than i usually do.

it small and it should not have taken long to do, but its how I play the game.
It may even be bad, (stats say I am bad), but its how I play the game.
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Post Post #3031 (isolation #371) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:06 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3030, Thor665 wrote:I feel that post also wasted my time.

Why aren't you voting Shiro?


Yes it probably entirely wasted your time.
That might be shame but it was not entirely unexpected that you would not find it informative.

I didn't like Slaandars last reason.

I found , kinda buried it.
When I read I can kinda see the binding idea, that all possible kills were bad. So IZ team cant have made them hence hes not scum?
Scum can always WIFOM and other stuff, so I dont really think the arguments great. BUT
"Town near enough always know the conclusion of their post before they write it thus generally you get much more to the point answers"
I found Shiro did know what Shiro main contention of the post was.
It was a stream of consciousness, kinda post, coulda been more succinct, but Id need to very careful to work out Shiro would not do that as town.

CAVEAT: There exists a I believe a logical error somewhere in the related posting. But no I wont say what it is. (besides i have poor logic so I am bound to be bad and wrong or very probably boring about it)
and the related pool is IIRC large. Hence describing it would just waste lots of time.

TLDR: I have bad feeling at the pit of my stomach I am not voting Shiro for the same reason I was reluctant to vote PereV
So I will see what happens and if Shiro gives me scummy or towny vibes as the day goes on
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Post Post #3035 (isolation #372) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:37 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3032, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3031, AxleGreaser wrote:So I will see what happens and if Shiro gives me scummy or towny vibes as the day goes on

So you have no read on him at all?


please dont do that.
By taking just that part of what I said it looks like you are responding reasonably. You are not.


You asked
In post 3030, Thor665 wrote:Why aren't you voting Shiro?


I gave you reason.
That reason described why not.

The last bit describes what it will take for to reach a point where I will vote Shiro.
Your interpretation of my words in the full context is not reasonable.
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Post Post #3038 (isolation #373) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:21 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3037, davesaz wrote:PSA: "False Dichotomy"


Yup and where I claimed that the previous quote contained statement which implied an either or clause.
It wasnt as strong as it can be, it didnt say so either this or that MUST be true. But it tried hard.
Not sure what you or anyone else thought was obvious, but Flub didnt seem to see it straight away.
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Post Post #3041 (isolation #374) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:45 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3036, Boonskiies wrote:@axle - you fail to mention the most likely part of the quote you keep quoting. And honestly, look how much talk it's brought. It
is
the main point of toDay. And day 1 I had to act like I was a doctor or a vigilante so I could hopefully be shot during the night. I expected that to be good town play tbh...sorry, I'm not too strong a town player all the time. Check my scum game though. I am a strong scum player.

Yeah but when i quote your post I put it all there. No misrep. (the posts below are however trimmed as indicated for brevity.)

Your play was as a fact inconsistent,
you were as a now claimed fact trying to draw a night kill, to do so you represented yourself as dangeorous play maker for D2. based on your role.
D2 rocks around and presumably scum guessed, your role, or assumed you to be derpy enough not to worry about how you would use it. So they left you alone.

But your claim about your own role and how D2 would play out then fails to materialise.

That concerned me
it, the claim, bought you a days grace not a free ride. (it especially didnt buy you the right to lie(see thor read below) about your reads to get lynch to happen)

There exist plausible to me scum power roles that would really want a day, or twos grace (even if they wound up dead, bussed for cred?)
So there was indeed good reason to poke you.

You needed to have your reins pulled in. because..

Ive just been reading your posts again to decide whether or not I think your are scum,
or will remain unsure enough that you will have to be lynched no matter what.

I found several interesting things. All bad but they may actually make you bit awful townier so try not to bite the hand that ... (never mind)

This is shocking play
In post 2899, Boonskiies wrote:[...]
I just want a lynch to happen.

No as town you never ever just want a lynch to happen. That never crosses your mind Ok. (well near deadline vs no lynch maybe Ok)

However you claim to be a 2 shot BP townie.
I am presuming you just want to get into D3 and have another chance at getting shot... (because for you the game is all about you)
BTW: if they called your bluff D1 they will (and would have) again,

so no, you effectively lying about reads, when you claim to have power role
"Thors town."
In post 2960, Boonskiies wrote:I don't care enough to explain anything on him.
I was just trying to get people off Thor and onto Iz when I said he was town.

This post may get you lynched two games from now...

However, the nutty thing is, if you are town and solely focussed on getting through this game day so you can have you chance to be the hero in the spotlight and eat a night kill then it kind makes twisted sense.
but hey if people want to tell me that idea ^^^ is nuts.
and they just want to lynch you anyway.. I am not sure i could call them bad for it.
It will be very hard thing to read those posts and think your town.
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Post Post #3044 (isolation #375) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:57 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3039, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3035, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3032, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3031, AxleGreaser wrote:So I will see what happens and if Shiro gives me scummy or towny vibes as the day goes on

So you have no read on him at all?


please dont do that.
By taking just that part of what I said it looks like you are responding reasonably. You are not.

Okay.
So what is your current
read
on Shiro and
why
?

(I usually do
why
then get conclusions(
read
) cos im town) ok?

I really want to offer to trade it for your explanation of what placement means and why it was scummy,
but nah.
that would waste my time.

First thing about reading Shiro (as opposed to the slot which doesnt get much better for me)
is noting that 25 posts make this a lot like a D1 read.
but Shiro does have more to react to so it could be stronger
but Shiro could plausibly get buried by volume (so shock explains what Id usually read as scummy)

Thus at this time On D2 is not a good time to read Shiro, for me.

That said.
Reasons:
Spoiler: Slaandar 2986 again
I don't like Slaandars to turn it into a read Id have to read a significant amount of Shiros other games I am guessing all of them to get feel for how focussed Shiro is when making a point Shiro believes.
Then Id have to guess if the extra complexity of the game gave Shiro pause for thought. "It just doesnt make sense with the people that died n1. " is a firm conclusion tot he post, but is followed by a caveat.
I love caveats when done right, that one was. In reading Shiros other games id try and work out if Shiro is the kind of person that would naturally state the caveat as town, or only as scum leaving room for an exit.
I think I have other caveats on Shiros analysis. That will take long time to do right, so far its not a big enough priority, Id like to delay it until I have enough data here.
(See next post for a grand conspiracy theory twist on this.)

Spoiler: Slaandar 2837 Safe posts + me
I know Slaandar didnt apply it to Shiro. But perhaps the scummiest feel I got was, during my opening exchange with Shiro.
as mentioned I found to be seriously hand wavy and challenged about that
addresses that but still no specific posts except by description "pigeon posts" but "That is on top of my head."
it makes promises (and i hate those) but hey then something actually happened.

Spoiler: 2462 Looks like legitimate townies question, to me.
(Your (but with my slant) is probably at the heart of why I voted him without excessive reluctance, in the end)
(Do note he has called me 100% scum means he didn't back away, and you were asked why he wouldn't. For me it was the disconnect between how much you were scum to him and that he would back away.)

This is the opposite interpretation to Slaandar. Shiros is a finding out post not a concluding one.

Some parts rub me wrong(feels), but instinct(experience) tells me thats me being wrong. I think I can connect the dots on how the read moved off Anen on PereV(by elimination) but I think the 'rub wrong' is that Shiro read seemed to shift with the breeze.
More time and better feel for Shiro in this game may clarify which feeling wins on that post.

TLDR: I dont want to lynch Shiro today.

(and if I want to lynch someone else I ought get a wriggle on eh. Good thing I am not one of the most experienced players in the game, or the whole shebang might be stalled doing nothing much.)

Caveat: Shiro's filter being so short, things can change fast. (new posts, or maybe new posts give new perspective to old ones.) So I dont expect read to change without new reasons, or an argument a lot better than gut..

I could do the predecessors too, but I think my last conclusion when i tried that was bleh yuk. (a touch scummy on cho)(I dont read that kind of play well at all)
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Post Post #3046 (isolation #376) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:31 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3045, TierShift wrote:Right, so why is boon being wagoned now? Can someone explain? For me, his claim checks out.

I don't think I want to lynch shiro either today.


Id be thinking the red bits in light them up like Christmas trees...

You might also want to look at

When I made that post, I couldn't see how multishot BP might imply multiball.
Not sure how, but I thought 2 shot BP meant activated on two nights.
(AKA weaker than the newbie queue one.... which when i looked is named a 1 shot BP...) (yeah derp me)

anyway, why be bullet proof to two shots?
I can see boon thinking it so each team can shoot him once.
(and not think about what happens after one scum shoots him once and he claims 1 shot BP...
then they do it again... nyah nyah. )
I can see boon thinking it so each team can shoot him once.

What I dont know is how plausible a 2 shot BP is on this site.
hmph found one this time (and its multi!!!)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28253

One problem I see is Id have thought a two shot BP role could be really swingy depending on which towny got it.
If an influential strong player scum hunter got it who was rarely scum read (due to weak scum game.)
Even if they only had some of those characteristics... RNG could really change the balance.
Boon getting it makes me laugh, but I dont think site meta is for host to do that kinda thing, ???
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Post Post #3049 (isolation #377) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:46 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3047, Izariael wrote:If he was trying to pull the night 1 kill onto him, then why is he scumreading me for not dying?


Now thats a good question
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Post Post #3054 (isolation #378) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:17 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3053, Garmr wrote:
In post 3050, TierShift wrote:
In post 3046, AxleGreaser wrote:Id be thinking the red bits in 3041 light them up like Christmas trees...

You might also want to look at 2921

Yeah but none of these even remotely make me want to lynch him.

You know it's quite common to give sks or scum bullet proof roles in game with multiple threats and think about it boons being playing to survive he really hasn't done much. He made a promise first day didn't really hunt and second day annienen dies and boon comes out swinging at Iz.
He could just be setting himself up to earn some town cred
and what he thought would be a easy lynch on iz if he killed annienen because I don't see him killing egg who was defending him.

I feel like his a sk because he feels the need to announce the fact his two shot bullet proof to discourage who ever is shooting from shooting him again. If he was mafia,werewolf alien what ever he would have his team mates and would probably feel secure.


Which action earns him town cred?
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Post Post #3055 (isolation #379) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:19 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Anyone
Odd question. If a two shot BP gets shot, does he get notified on this forum?
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Post Post #3058 (isolation #380) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:21 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3053, Garmr wrote:who ever is shooting from shooting him again.


what makes you think anyone is shooting him?
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Post Post #3066 (isolation #381) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:14 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3059, Garmr wrote:
In post 3058, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3053, Garmr wrote:who ever is shooting from shooting him again.


what makes you think anyone is shooting him?

The way his acting about his claim makes me feel like something made him panic.


so with two deaths N1 you think he got shot why?
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Post Post #3067 (isolation #382) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:15 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3066, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3059, Garmr wrote:
In post 3058, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3053, Garmr wrote:who ever is shooting from shooting him again.


what makes you think anyone is shooting him?

The way his acting about his claim makes me feel like something made him panic.


so with two deaths N1 you think he got shot why?


or how?
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Post Post #3084 (isolation #383) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:02 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3070, Thor665 wrote:For a guy complaining that I wasted his time - you seem unable to just assign a basic value to someone.

I wrote reply to your post and tried to squeeze my understanding of mafia into your linear scale.

Then I decided fuck it.

I have posted the reason I dont want to vote your wagon.

You wont even explain to me whether you mean placement as in order (timing)
placement as in which wagon

or something I have not thought of.

I don't have 100% town read on you,

fuck it.
My position on the lynch and reasons is clear.

Its way fucking clearer than yours, or TSOs was on Aneninen

tired of dancing
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Post Post #3085 (isolation #384) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:06 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3083, Thor665 wrote:I'm mixing you up with someone else in my head, clearly.


WAT
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Post Post #3086 (isolation #385) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:19 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3085, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3083, Thor665 wrote:I'm mixing you up with someone else in my head, clearly.


WAT


Ok I am over it
that is really kinda funny.
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Post Post #3092 (isolation #386) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:36 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3090, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2987, Shiro wrote:My point was that Scum Iz would be in a horrible place with both kills. Anen cause it attacts attention to him(like it did) Egg cause it makes Thor look horrible. if we assume it was a slip and Thor and Iz are scum buddies both kills attract attention to mafia

Wasn't scum IZ in a horrible place anyways? Who would scum IZ kill theoretically to not be in a horrible place?

The egg kill makes Thor look bad only when people assume there is scum in each of the hoods which no-one should be doing.


however interestingly a number of people have mentioned the idea, but far fewer join that dot.
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Post Post #3096 (isolation #387) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:52 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3091, Thor665 wrote:@Axle - so you cannot state a read on Shiro then?


Sure I can I just got it mixed up with someone else for a bit.
either that I or I accidentally swapped the words 'cannot' with 'don’t want to (out of spite/pique)'.

Shiro: Lean town.

(but with better than average chance of changing on not much)

However since when you asked
the recent observation of pops up when pressured mentioned but not looking for scum might be interesting.
I have not thought hard about that and its still in play. (this will now be part of that)

There is also feel read on a post I haven't sorted out.
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Post Post #3133 (isolation #388) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:38 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3132, Shiro wrote:@Slandar As the other person who supports my lynch what do you think of Thor's case ?



do you have thoughts about anything other than why people are voting you.

Is anything else of interest?
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Post Post #3134 (isolation #389) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:59 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Boonskiies


maybe you have dodged the lynch bullet maybe not.
A recent vote count in part said

[5]
Boonskiies:
T S O, Izariael, Flubbernugget, Garmr, Muffin
since then Muffin moved off you, but I wouldn't count on that being permanent.
Look scummy in your play from here, and I may vote you again

If you are town, you need to play. If you are scum you need to take the risk you normally dont and play.

is piggy backing off (but hey at least you read something)

If you want to try and achieve the lynch of someone else (other than yourself) read Iz and/or Garmr

and find stuff more useful and specific than
In post 3093, Boonskiies wrote:Also, Gamr is sprouting fluff. We should lynch him. Or Iz.


otherwise its you that may wind up sprouting fluff.(daisies)

yeah yeah, I will be doing something myself, shortly
@Boonskiies
But boon its easier if you go first, later there are less potential for scummy things to find.

Even if you think but I am a VI, just "try"...
Other people can read "try",
(fingers in the ears and singing "La la la, I am a village idiot" not so much)
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Post Post #3137 (isolation #390) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:19 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3135, Shiro wrote:
In post 3133, AxleGreaser wrote:
do you have thoughts about anything other than why people are voting you.
Is anything else of interest?

Boons sudden disappearance after such a burst of activity. Is kinda odd I was expecting him to stick around.

I am stll waiting for him to say what kind of info thor flip will give him since he admitted that he didnt read day 1.
I would have been more concerned about that though if I wasnt leaning town on him

Life happens, which is where I will be for a little bit.

However theres a start.
Why are you leaning town on him?

Also
This will go easier and faster and better if you just volunteer the obvious useful information.
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Post Post #3140 (isolation #391) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:52 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3036, Boonskiies wrote:@axle - you fail to mention the most likely part of the quote you keep quoting. And honestly, look how much talk it's brought. It
is
the main point of toDay.
And day 1 I had to act like I was a doctor or a vigilante so I could hopefully be shot during the night
. I expected that to be good town play tbh...sorry, I'm not too strong a town player all the time. Check my scum game though. I am a strong scum player.

In post 2911, Boonskiies wrote:I'm just not into this game enough to think things through. I got to the point where I wasn't going to get NK'd anyways, so me being bullet proof doesn't mean anything anymore. There was a reason for me trying to pointlessly claim a PR.
I've never been NK'd before though.


In post 3138, Shiro wrote:His claim makes sense

He claim a pr that confirms multiball
^A strech of an assumption but not an impossible one from 2 shot bp

He says his role will be main point of Discussion day 2
^
He was convinced he was going to be NKed. If he was shot as 2 shot BP wouldnt that make him main point of dusscussion.


His I am protective role in our Hood.

^Still lines up. He was convinced that we have scum in our hood cause we are the biggest one. It does seem like the final nail in the coffin to seal the nk on him.

It does take a lot of assuming from his part but his words do connect so
If it was a fake claim it certenly seems to be a pre planned one which as you can see I do not think is the case


Do these posts of his figure in your analysis, if so how?

@Boonskiies.
Go play on a freeway or something.

Shiro is commenting on something other than the case against Shiro.
Guess what you ought do...
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Post Post #3142 (isolation #392) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:13 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3141, Shiro wrote:Yes him saying he never been nked before is off does that mean as a 2 shot bp he wasnt supposed to try ? Assuming it the way he did was a strech which makes me tjink it is why he claimed protective role in our hood in hopes of sealung it.
^About blue point

The purple one lines up he kind of claimed doc in our hood to draw it. Or I am failing to see your point.


purple one hey i am failing to see it too. (im cooking dinner as well)(bwains not al that worky)

It was the difference between you saying he was
convinced
hed draw the night kill and his own knowledge he has never been killed before.

Do you think he was convinced or only hoped to draw the nk.
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Post Post #3185 (isolation #393) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:35 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3155, Slandaar wrote:I mean the suspicion comes from the idea that scum can have a nervous/awkward entrance to the game hence both my argument there and TSO's being very similar in nature. Is it more likely from scum? yes I think so, is there any scum motivation? no.


and Id have been happier if TSO said that.
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Post Post #3186 (isolation #394) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:43 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3185, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3155, Slandaar wrote:I mean the suspicion comes from the idea that scum can have a nervous/awkward entrance to the game hence both my argument there and TSO's being very similar in nature. Is it more likely from scum? yes I think so, is there any scum motivation? no.


and Id have been happier if TSO said that.


That there can exist a justification is not the same as the person having one. I for instance had very viable (to me) way to have meant
"safe assumption" (decisions based on it are safe because they are compatible with it not being true)
but it wasn't thors reason, so points like yours are less valuable, if the person doesn't make them for themselves.

Also that would be fine, but the actual "plenty" of actual scummy stuff (stuff that looked scummy at the time) is still yet to appear, despite...

Also yet to appear are things that I should comment about that are scummy about TSOs day two play.
The why is I looked and didn't find them.

Either he's scum and gone to ground (bravo me, I shut scum down... bugger I didnt lynch him)
or i was w w w w w w wong on a D1 read, I wanted to lynch significantly more than PereV

... its now D2.
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Post Post #3190 (isolation #395) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:21 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3102, The Fonz wrote:and accusing the scumhunter who points that out of 'flinging shit' is itself just flinging shit.

not quite the same as what I did though

The "scum hunter" that actually pointed it out was Garmr, who I was at the time IIRC pressuring, I am not fond of the person i am currently pressuring suggest I talk about something else
I didn't.
What you did was, I (erroneously a bit) thought a me too.

When i commented on you flinging shit. I made a mistake. I read the last part the only bit I quoted, as you fanning someone elses push (but keeping your hands clean)
In much the same way I triggered on the word "real" in this post http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5900070 (my first game here)
(provided as an emotionally disconnected example)

Anyway, now, not making the mistake above, (The full quote was)
In post 2787, The Fonz wrote:Likewise, thought Garmr's rushing into a 1v1 looked town... But self consciously suggesting that scum wouldn't do that makes it look like it could be posturing. Question of why Axle dropped TSO suspicion a good one.

You as part of a comment that you thought it was towny thing (town points) for Garmr, then in general would agree that noticing an incoistsency in play would be good,
as it involves reading and thinking (hence your comment is true as far as it goes)
(I failed to remember that it was Garmr's actual question.)

That Garmrs question to me about TSO, also involved Garmr trying to get the guy(Axle) pushing Garmr at the time to talk about something else, not so much.
at the time i read Garmrs questions as attempt to distract me I ignored it at the time

Do note I am very willing to go back and reiterate my points and vote and push TSO.
All Id need is any sign I could plausibly succeed, when realistically me convincing people who have played with TSO who claim basically, nope meta, that they are wrong is wrong headed.
If i was right and TSO is scum.

I will need to flip other players first.
or find new points.
or ...

Finally
are you actually suggesting I need to chase a seemingly unlynchable wagon to be town?

yes I accept you ought (could) have an direct question for me about it.
And if you asked there is even more discussion that could be had as i explain my thought processes.
If you actually think I am scummy (say 85%) and its worth it you could do that... or Garmr could have.

PS Id also need to be convinced that on D2 TSO was most likely to flip scum, I believe my subsequent investigations
(while not pushing TSO, but looking to see if I can find better read)
found a more likely to flip scum target

hey but i am not voting... yeah. I have reasons for that too.
(I also want to work out Shiros alignment and Boons, they needed space and time, which Boons sadly predictably is failing to use.)

Got any questions you want to directly ask me?
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Post Post #3215 (isolation #396) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:28 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3211, Thor665 wrote:Any timeline on that Goodmorning case yet, TSO?



I thought he was still promising an Aneninen case? (aka the reasons he had yesterday that never materialised)
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Post Post #3229 (isolation #397) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:44 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

Reasons for voting Garmr D2. (abridged version)

As indicated D1
I have been suspicious of the voters on the Anen wagon since and have been trying to work who is scum and who is wrong or bad ever since.

GARMR
is scum because

Safe Play

Voting easy, not likely fight back targets

Boonskiies:
for bad(made up) reasons
Aneninen:
for pointing out the reasons were bad (but providing others that would be Ok)
Thereby (according to garnr) stopping the pressure on Boon? (see below)
Axle ?:
Dont know if I look safe to attack or not? (see OMGUS/self conscious)

then not actually progressing the cases, even when 85% sure they are scum...

OMGUS
(
overly self conscious
)
Aneninen
See: Holy over sensitive souls, end of
Axle
Extra double self conscious

I mention I have similar problem with his read. and ASK if he(Garmr) can explain TSOs read on Anen?
(because I am at the time scum hunting TSO, and trying to understand TSOs reasons. And why none else seems to care he doesnt have any stated as beign related to the thread explictly.))
Garmr replies ignoring the question because its all about him
“I have explained my reasons even through it started with a misunderstanding.”
and suddenly (bang it hit me) decides I am scum (In D2 somewhere he claims it didn't happen like that)

Scummy reasoning as previously described

Perhaps the most telling for me is most recently stated in
I do know that in fact Garmr unvoted Boon when Boon soft claimed D1

but Garmr claims
that Aneninens (chainsaw/wk) of boon that Garmr “he(Anen) stopped my pressure on boon ” “It really cut any progress on boonskies short as he hasn't provided much content."

Scummy Bullshit.
Especially when garmr also charcterises Anens post as making Garmnrs points stronger

I cant see how a town mind can simultaneous think all those things. (points made stronger, and pressure removed == Nope not buying it)

Scum
can however be upset that their nice safe to hide vote on Boon is taken away, so they OMGUS the guy that did it.
That makes sense.

lastly (for now)
Garmr says of
him
(Boon)
In post 3058, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3053, Garmr wrote:who ever is shooting from shooting
him
again.


what makes you think anyone is shooting
him
?


I cant see any reasonable reason a towny would be using the language "shooting him again", and be assuming it had already happened and that Boon knew.
(read the subsequent discussion for yourself)

However if Garmr belongs to a faction that had shot Boon, then that makes lots of sense.
I hate slips, per se, but only to the extent that I would hardly ever lynch someone on the basis of just that
However, such point is one more piece of evidence ina continuing and enduring pattern of scummy play.

That is eminently lynchable, and way more likely to flip scum than any one trick pony based wagon.

VOTE: Garmr
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Post Post #3231 (isolation #398) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:48 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3227, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3225, Boonskiies wrote:@Reinoe - I claimed town 2 shot bulletproof neighbor because that is what my role pm says. I had like five votes on me for reasons. I was obviously trying to draw a NK. I'm not a good town player, let's be honest. I suck while I'm town and make no logic.

Replace out due to failure to know how to play town?


(TBMK: site wide ban on trust tells says no)
Dont type in due to failure of willingness to try as one alignment is alignment neutral.
So is playing the game.
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Post Post #3237 (isolation #399) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:58 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3230, goodmorning wrote:
P-EDIT: @Axle: what is your read on Thor?


Not voting today.
More than leans town.

The person I read as more than leans town, (hence I trust the truthiness of their posts a bit) says
In post 882, Thor665 wrote:Please let you be town in all scum games I ever have on site.

so Thor says I cant read him for shit. (and wont be able to even with lots of practice)

Thus in one of those paradox thingies. I down grade all my town reads on Thor forever, until I have evidence he is wrong.

leans town
.
still definitely not voting today.

Further clarity:
I am pretty sure if the two wagons are you and thor, at L-1, and I have the hammer, you're flipping.
(Didn't like your D1 push being feeling/tone, and IIRC on D2 there are posts citing D1 as evidence ,that you now have more than feelings/tone about... yeah nah.)
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