NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #1773 (isolation #0) » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:48 am

Post by Slandaar »

I'm here, done some reading will do some more later, will be caught up by the end of the weekend.
In post 182, Csareo wrote:
In post 176, T S O wrote:I somehow end up in a large pissing fest with -someone- in every goddamn Large I participate in d1 and it makes it really fucking unfun.

That is not my intention. I'm trying to be respectful and understanding while asking you questions.
It isn't me who's blowing things out of proportion.
I am curious, on why you think we're in some sort of fight?

This is completely correct. If it happens every game then it is obviously because of
you
and it definitely was here.

also;
In post 1764, T S O wrote:
In post 1724, Nero Cain wrote:
says the guys that just mislynched 5 town

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58247-4 correct scum reads

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 46542-even as scum i had 3 correct reads

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58466-3 correct scum reads, had a 4th but got distracted


hey remember fe awakening where you were so shit we had to policy vig you as town! lol
hey remember completely ridiculous where you were so shit you got ran up d1? lol
hey remember the majority of your games where you were awful? lol

I'm embarrassed for the both of you. Just stop.

I will post actual contents when I am up-to date.
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Post Post #1775 (isolation #1) » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:11 am

Post by Slandaar »

Do you think your question is productive Axle?
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Post Post #1785 (isolation #2) » Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:01 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1776, AxleGreaser wrote:claiming previous high accuracy is a kind of appeal to the authority of past success.

This doesn't really apply to the context even if it were true. He was responding to NC suggesting he is bad by saying he isn't. Who cares if he did or didn't try to appear better than he is? people exaggerate all the time in life it's no different.
In post 1777, T S O wrote:I'm actually really embarrassed for you.

lol.
In post 1779, T S O wrote:Slandaar you should probably look at recent stuff.

If you want to waste your time and kill motivation by reading 70+ pages, go ahead, but it's really better if you just post content soon.

I appreciate your concern, however, I like to read everything so I will do that.

:]
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Post Post #1787 (isolation #3) » Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:38 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1786, goodmorning wrote:
Town TSO
is far more likely to throw himself at a brick wall like that.

This is pure meta.
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Post Post #1789 (isolation #4) » Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:48 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 54, goodmorning wrote:Why would Scum try to lynch a claimed PR?

Also, GM, I have an answer your very good question you asked earlier in the game.

Because they are scum and lynching a town PR is beneficial to their win condition.

Now, I know this answer may be a lot to take in but try very hard to understand this difficult concept then let me know what you think about my answer.
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Post Post #1819 (isolation #5) » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:30 am

Post by Slandaar »

Boon you need to make your cop breadcrumbs less obvious in future. Scum are just going to kill you n1 now making your power worthless.
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Post Post #1821 (isolation #6) » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:34 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1802, goodmorning wrote:
Town
anyone
is more likely to fall into that trap. That TSO is especially isn't really the point.

I see.
In post 1802, goodmorning wrote:
It's terribly transparent, trying to lynch a PR. Your answer is too simple - it doesn't take consequences into account.

PR's get lynched all the time by town and scum alike. The 'consequences' are what? they may get lynched for it? but it's no different to any other town wagon/lynch they try to push.
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Post Post #1854 (isolation #7) » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:13 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1836, goodmorning wrote:Today is Day 1. If you don't get why that makes a difference then perhaps you should try to figure it out.

So, if scum claims PR D1 they are immune to being lynched bar a cc for D1? What about D2? well I think they have not had long enough as scum can risk one night right? D3? so much suspicion on them that scum wouldn't kill...

Where is this magical line that you actually think PR claims can be lynched? What happens when they claim they are RB'ed or some such?

:]

I know you didn't mention scum claiming PR but it's all the same argument, if you don't think scum try to lynch town PR's then either you think that anyone who tries to lynch a town PR is town (clearly wrong) OR you think no-one tries to lynch them so by extension you cannot lynch scum claiming PR either (bar cc) because obviously you can get it wrong...

You actually think I am going to believe you think scum and by extension NO-ONE would try to lynch PR claims on D1? You are mistaken.
In post 1836, goodmorning wrote:
I'm sorry you replaced into a Scum slot, but sidetracking me with theory discussions is not helpful.

Yes, yes, 'you replaced into a scum slot'. Very original. I assume I will see a well written case by you when I am fully caught up?
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Post Post #1857 (isolation #8) » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:33 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 583, Thor665 wrote:
Adding in the other SK ones changes it to a 6/13 ratio.

I don't think you should be adding the SK ones here Thorsie.

Even if we agree (we don't) the term multiball includes games with SK's in them it is very nitpicky and we know Peregrines reply before even reading it;
In post 597, PeregrineV wrote:Except Multiball means 2 scumteams

Amazing, right?
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Post Post #1882 (isolation #9) » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:25 am

Post by Slandaar »

TSO can you actually post in one place why you think/thought Aneninen is scum please?
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Post Post #1917 (isolation #10) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:12 am

Post by Slandaar »

I think Thor and PV are both town.

Lets lynch someone else.

VOTE: GoodMorning

GM is good as scum so she hasn't made any huge mistakes or slips and this makes it hard to make an argument against her but her tone doesn't feel right and she never seems to have much point to what she says. :]

But seriously; The way she acted during Csareo's time was incredibly scummy. She asked him multitudes of questions and argued lots of what he said because
it was easy
. It looks good when you argue with someone like Csareo because you will always win and thus come out looking good but at the same time she wasn't pushing the wagon or really doing anything with the questions she asked or points she disputed. You can see this later where she never again questions anyone to such an extent, take Thor she never questions him.

Now here is a more physical point;
In post 34, goodmorning wrote:
Does Town need to know whether a claimed Reviver can self-Revive? No.
Does Scum? Yes.
Does that make my dislike of your question clearer?

In post 54, goodmorning wrote:
You can be curious, but when you're rolefishing that's bad.

In post 62, goodmorning wrote:
Sorry, rolefishing isn't scummy now?

She implies scummy. While never voting him.

GM thinks rolefishing is scummy, now think about this response;
In post 1802, goodmorning wrote:It's terribly transparent,
trying to lynch a PR.
trying to rolefish.
Your answer is too simple
- it doesn't take consequences into account.

GM is scum. She is thinking on different levels when it suits her.

The End.
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Post Post #1925 (isolation #11) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:30 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1920, goodmorning wrote:
I wasn't questioning him to win an argument. I was questioning him to clarify his stance on TSO. I wasn't questioning him to build a case on him. I was questioning him to attempt to read him.

If you find this valuable, asking people lots of questions to help attain a read, why have you not done this with anyone else?
In post 1920, goodmorning wrote:
You're kidding me. The rolefishing set is aimed at a single newb newb newb player (who actually tried to rolefish). The second set is thinking of a hypothetical reasonably experienced set of Scum (who are apparently not taking the "lynch Boonskiies" action).
Of course I'm thinking on different levels - one of them is labelled "Inexperience Challenged."

So, what you actually asked a newbie was: Why would a hypothetical reasonably experienced set of scum try to lynch PR's?

How is a newbie supposed to know what reasonably experienced scum do or don't do?

I don't think that is what you were asking.
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Post Post #1926 (isolation #12) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:32 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1923, Thor665 wrote:@Garmr - have you ever played with scum Pere?

Hi Thorsie

I have

:cool:
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Post Post #1932 (isolation #13) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:50 am

Post by Slandaar »

PV is just less colourful as scum, just is, he has less of a presence, it's meta but it's the only way I can read PV because I used to for several games always think hes scum so I just ignore his reasoning mostly because I never agree with him.

He posted meta showing why he believes what he believes it completely backed him up, you can't make that up, he obviously believes that you(royal you) shouldn't be assuming it's multiball in this sized game and his experience backs this argument up. It's not a good argument but meh, I don't really find his arguments good ever so whatever that is pretty moot.

Why didn't he accuse others? don't know, don't really care. Maybe because he thinks you specifically shouldn't think it's multiball.
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Post Post #1934 (isolation #14) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:58 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1928, davesaz wrote:Wait, what newbie was GM asking a question of?

Csareo is the person in question.
In post 1928, davesaz wrote:
I honestly had no problem with either question. And I would have classified GM's 2nd line of questioning differently than you did. But what's your definition of a newbie?

Why does this matter?
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Post Post #1936 (isolation #15) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:02 am

Post by Slandaar »

Someone who is new to the game.
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Post Post #1940 (isolation #16) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:06 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1937, davesaz wrote:How about something more specific than that. # games? # months? Behavior?

Don't know really. It's not a set thing and somewhat depends on how quick a learner they are/how applied they are to the games. Lets just say 2 games because that is what the site suggests.
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Post Post #1965 (isolation #17) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:42 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
Slandaar – What kind of catch-up was that?

I read nearly 2000 posts in 2 days what did you expect me to do? write a bunch of walls aswell? do you want players who are caught up and know whats going on or ones who write a wall take 5 hours to read 10 pages and never catch up?

I told you who needs to be lynched today; GM.
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
Quoting a #180-ish post then jumping to #1700 so as to comment on the TSO-Nero interaction?

Yes? I read the recent couple pages while reading the rest? What is the issue with that?
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
As if there had been nothing more interesting. Pretty of nulls next. is an evasion plus a speculation (which feels to include "inside information" – that's just an intuition, though).

That isn't my post.
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
The , vote for GoodMorning is terrible, as for its reasoning. Everyone: check that out, also the #s of the posts!!!

Whats terrible about it?
In post 1961, Aneninen wrote:
(By the way, did he want to derail the PeregrineV wagon in ? We should remember that later!)

Yep I want to derail PV wagon.

It's good to know you are scum though. I call someone town so I am buddies with them? lol.
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Post Post #1968 (isolation #18) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:58 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1943, Thor665 wrote:
You find him colorful in this game? Becase the only color he showed, in my opinion, was when I forced him to engage me. Other than that he has very much struck me as a sit back and do nothing player.

He has been colourful for Peregrine, yes.
In post 1943, Thor665 wrote:
You're falling into his trap here.
It doesn't matter whether or not he believes games are or are not likely to be multiball.
The question is - would he find it *scummy* that I thought it was likely. (or, more specifically, a safe presumption)
Why did he think *that* was scummy.

It doesn't matter whether or not he thought it was or wasn't likely, it mattered that he called it scummy to think otherwise.

I find it believable that if you have a certain experience with games going a certain way you would think others with similar experience levels would think similarly, thus you not doing so when he thinks you would think similar to him appears scummy to him.

He did push it too much but I buy he believes it.
In post 1943, Thor665 wrote:
Okay.
Why should he think this? (also, I think you should care - why don't you? We're talking about a read on pere here, I would think that aspect would matter, yeah?)

I explained it above better. I just don't really care about why he didn't attribute it to someone else, I mean if he says he skimmed and paid attention to Thor I would go OK sure so it really doesn't matter.
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Post Post #1970 (isolation #19) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:15 am

Post by Slandaar »

Yeah see if you understood my reasoning on GM you would realize half the terrible reasoning is hers...

Oh Dear.
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Post Post #1974 (isolation #20) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:35 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1971, Thor665 wrote:But it didn't in that way.
He said it was scummy if there were two scum teams. But if there was one scum team it would not be scummy.

They are not mutually exclusive. It still applies he expects you to think a certain way and because you didn't thinks you are scum who assumes multi-ball with inside knowledge but this doesn't apply when it isn't multi-ball...

I mean is it good reasoning? no, but do you think Peregrine with his experience makes this argument unless he believes it?
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Post Post #1976 (isolation #21) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:41 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1972, Muffin wrote:Can you explain this a little more please? The struck-through text confuses me.

The point I was making there is she was calling rolefishing scummy but saying scum wouldn't try to lynch claimed PR's because it's too obvious but rolefishing is also very obvious. So saying one is scummy and one isn't is terrible as they are essentially the same argument.
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Post Post #1979 (isolation #22) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:44 am

Post by Slandaar »

Here:
In post 1969, Aneninen wrote:GM is good as scum so she hasn't made any huge mistakes or slips and this makes it hard to make an argument against her but her tone doesn't feel right

Aneninen has just highlighted my impression of GM.

This is scum. He clearly has not paid attention to GM at all yet is calling her town.(they are buddies)
GM is scum.
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Post Post #1980 (isolation #23) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:45 am

Post by Slandaar »

I mean this is stonewall stuff.

Lets move. Lynch GM.
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Post Post #1982 (isolation #24) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:53 am

Post by Slandaar »

Eh maybe it isn't a buddy tell.

It's an Aneninen is definitely scum tell. That defence of GM requires better knowledge of her posts than he has. He had no clue why GM was voting Thor, none, if you did you know what I was doing there.
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Post Post #2033 (isolation #25) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:51 pm

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1991, Thor665 wrote:
The thing is that he didn't want to. He tossed it out - I zeroed in on it, and he tried to re-phrase the situation.
So, no,
I don't think he'd do it unless he believed it
- I also don't think he believes it and didn't want to get into it and regrets tossing it in as a way to fluff up a fake read.

Show me where/what he 're-phrased' it to.

Bolded: then why are you using this as some sort of case?

Read what you have just said Thor.
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Post Post #2034 (isolation #26) » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:58 pm

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1997, goodmorning wrote:The situation has to be right. Also the reasons addressed above.

Yeah we know the situation: Newbie with weak logic you can look good arguing against.

I picked up on this recently. I call it the 'I'm a scumbag trying to look good' tell. I don't think there was any point to what you were arguing with him, you pointed out lots of things you disagreed with asked a bunch of questions he replaced and then you call him town.

Doesn't make a lot of sense does it? Also; Did you ever explain that townread?
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Post Post #2036 (isolation #27) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:18 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2008, goodmorning wrote:
To come in on a tunnel

I should rename myself to Tunneller5000.

Not sure why this matters though.
In post 2008, goodmorning wrote:
to ask only theory questions

I had a very clear point to my questioning so what does it matter if it was or wasn't?
In post 2008, goodmorning wrote:
to misrep people to a ridiculous extent,

I haven't misrepped anyone at least not deliberately. I suppose you will be showing this in due course though?
In post 2008, goodmorning wrote:
to join a discussion that was better off dead and buried

There are/were 2 main wagons when I joined this game.

PV and Thor.

The arguments against both related to the multiball discussion, what exactly did you expect me to do? ignore the whole discussion? I assume that is what dead and buried is implying? Why would I do that when the discussion relates to the two main wagons in the game?
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Post Post #2037 (isolation #28) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:31 am

Post by Slandaar »

Alright I have to work now so I am not posting for another 5 hours or so.
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Post Post #2090 (isolation #29) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:43 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2039, Thor665 wrote:
As I have specifically said to you - he re-prhased away from the scumtell and into the debate of whether the game is or is not likely to be multiball which has nothing to do with my scumminess existing or not.

Because that is the case - he has said something he doesn't appear to believe and doesn't appear able to back up - yet IS STICKING TO HIS GUNS ON IT.

AND AS I HAVE SAID TO YOU...

I feel you don't understand my point Thor. The conversation diverted when he used the meta to back his argument up, do you disagree? are we talking about a different point? I feel that meta was required and believe you requested it if the argument then gets off track because of it then that happens it is not indicative of scum. Please can you provide quotes of what you are talking about if you think I am wrong as it is hard to know exactly what you are talking about.
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Post Post #2123 (isolation #30) » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:31 pm

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2119, The Fonz wrote:#1819: I see no reason for town to make this post. Boonskiies was claiming non-specific PR. EVEN IF as town, you thought some nuance of it made clear he was cop, what would be the benefit?

I was explaining to Boon that as the cop you shouldn't be so obvious to ensure that other power roles, who are unsure of whether Boon was playing his role well and thought they may do similar, would know not to play like Boon.

:]

Fonzie do you actually think I would post that without an actual reason even as scum? (Hint: that wasn't the real reason)

Some of the other stuff you wrote is also equally terrible.

1
2
3

Interestingly the most recent one I didn't ever read the thread and was lynched due to my predecessor so I probably ensured I had the time to read the thread here due to that. Heh.
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Post Post #2124 (isolation #31) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:07 am

Post by Slandaar »

I wasn't going to reply to this but eh...
In post 2119, The Fonz wrote:1789 isn't entirely fair to goodmorning. What GM's saying, I think, is that a push on a claimed PR is unlikely to work and likely to make you look scummy.

What is the difference between scum trying to lynch a claimed PR and trying to lynch another unclaimed townie?

Neither is more or less scummy. The difference between them is the reasoning for trying to lynch - this is what defines if the person is scummy or not. Therefore if scum think they can lynch a claimed PR with the reasoning they have, then why wouldn't they?
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Post Post #2125 (isolation #32) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:51 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2016, Aneninen wrote:
there are other possibilities besides Thor and PereV

Yeah, there are/were - everyone in the game who I thought was scum including GM so?
In post 2016, Aneninen wrote:
(2) that part about "Goodmorning is scum because she doesn't make mistakes as scum" must have been a joke, but a real life experience from me is that players tend to make joke out of real things just to attenuate their "annoying" thoughts

Don't know what this actually means. Annoying thoughts? I said it that way because it showed how lacklustre GM's reasoning has been this entire game as I can literally post what she has said about her.
In post 2016, Aneninen wrote:
I still can't see why a player who has never played with Csareo before is scummier because of their interaction with him than another one who has played with Csareo. (And this argument against TSO from me was called weak... yet another double standard)

The way in which they interacted it's not plain because they interacted with Csareo

TSO had a point although went over the top. GM didn't have a point to it.
In post 2016, Aneninen wrote:
– I was FoS-ed in another game for using the phrase "derail a wagon" and I was town

So, you know that town can use the term derail a wagon then and yet are accusing me of using it?

:cool:
In post 2016, Aneninen wrote:
– I must add this: in Slandaar gave his own words into my mouth

I said that you highlighted those words as terrible which you did. There is no attempt to suggest you said those words.
In post 2016, Aneninen wrote:
– and the most important part, which, I must admit, an intuition-read, was his nervous reaction to my scumlist. Some calls things like that "reaction tests". But, I've already learnt it: if someone else performs a reaction test, noone bats an eye. If I do the same...

You were not performing a reaction test. You called me scum with some make believe reasons so I called you scum to which you made a terrible case and hung yourself.
In post 2016, Aneninen wrote:
My posts are misinterpreted, misrepresented or ignored, and used by many for playing the "Regardless Of Card" at me and many are talking AT me instead of talking TO me. It still works in this way: some players ARE interested in focusing on me and make out arguments out of anything to call me scum.

I don't think they have been misinterpreted, misrepresented or ignored.
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Post Post #2126 (isolation #33) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:54 am

Post by Slandaar »

Here Ane I will enlighten you to your plight;
In post 927, goodmorning wrote:
On Thor is mostly a tone-based read as I think I've made clear. I don't expect anyone to believe/follow me and I'm fine with that (to all others who asked).

She then justifys than her read is tone;
In post 945, goodmorning wrote:Were you expecting Thor to fuck up bad? Because I'm not. You may have noticed he's good at this game. He's not going to make any pushes he doesn't think he can justify, he's not going to overstretch his hand, and with this being a Large there's plenty of room to hide in.

So, I assume you think this is terrible reasoning and it is GM's only reasoning for voting Thor for the past 1000 posts.

Please can you explain why you think she is town?

I mean it's obvious you haven't been reading this so how you have a town read on her is going to be... well it's make believe isn't it?
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Post Post #2139 (isolation #34) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:48 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2127, goodmorning wrote:Why would I come into a fresh discussion with an agenda?

Is this a serious question?

Lets talk hypothetically; If you are scum do you think you would have an agenda while entering a fresh discussion?
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Post Post #2156 (isolation #35) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:02 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2144, goodmorning wrote:I begin to see the problem here. One of us is wrong about my alignment. Hmmmmm.

I asked a hypothetical question about what you would do if you were scum to which you reply with this?

What?
In post 2144, goodmorning wrote:
The only agenda I have, as either alignment, is to figure things out.
I don't come into questioning intending anything else.

And what are you trying to figure out as scum?
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Post Post #2157 (isolation #36) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:08 am

Post by Slandaar »

I see PR hunting is what you are saying.

You don't think a scum agenda is to look active? or to look town? just to try and find PR's and find which townies look scummy (which I don't exactly know what this means)
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Post Post #2180 (isolation #37) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:53 pm

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2158, goodmorning wrote:Townies that look scummy are townies that Scum can make eat a lynch. I thought that would be obvious.

It doesn't really matter, I mean the point of my post was the questions not that I wasn't entirely sure what you meant but obviously you focused on the excess not the actual point.

In post 2164, Aneninen wrote:The thing you pointed out in your next post made me think about Goodmorning. I'll check that later.

It made you think? about what? how you should have been reading GM's posts?
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Post Post #2181 (isolation #38) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:54 pm

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2171, Scripten wrote:Everyone else is hinging on various levels of null for me.

Am I?
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Post Post #2182 (isolation #39) » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:57 pm

Post by Slandaar »

Also I don't have time to get quotes but basically GM said to someone Tier I think to reread Thors posts when Tier said he thought Thor was town. This is off because all GM has is 'tone' so what was Tier supposed to be rereading for?

I may try explain this better later. With quotes it's clearer.
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Post Post #2188 (isolation #40) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:54 am

Post by Slandaar »

Looked at my meta yet Fonzie Fonzie?

:]

---

I have opinions on multiple things GM. Perhaps instead of suggesting I don't just because I haven't posted everything I think (as is always the case with me) you should have asked about whatever subject it is you think is so important which I should definitely have posted about. That sounds a little too much like something a townie would do though eh?

What are these 'things' I should have posted about which I have not?
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Post Post #2191 (isolation #41) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:55 am

Post by Slandaar »

Fonz serious question.

If scum claims a PR on D1 can
you
lynch them based on what you are saying?

Let's say they claim Miller what then? when do you lynch them? It can be anything else other than cop really (cop is only role which you can just see if they die N1) Choose a Back-up role etc even a Doctor claim is quite unverifiable especially if scum have an RB.
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Post Post #2277 (isolation #42) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:50 pm

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2262, Egg wrote:And you are voting him. So you actually ARE assuming two scum teams now?

I mean that does make sense; Calling Thor scum for saying it's multiball insinuating Thor has inside knowledge. For this to hold you will start to assume multiball.
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Post Post #2279 (isolation #43) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:51 am

Post by Slandaar »

To be honest assume was the wrong word; it will be considered more possible than what he would normally think which might cloud things.

I will have to look into what you said later I have thought about it but basically I need to look at the whole conversation thread.

But PV isn't an SK - the argument on Thor doesn't make sense from an SK because SK will assume one scumteam thus Thor's multiball comment doesn't look like a slip at all and there is no reason to fake scumreads as an SK.
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Post Post #2281 (isolation #44) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:14 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2242, The Fonz wrote:Obviously not, as you haven't supplied it like I asked.

I did a few posts back.
In post 2242, The Fonz wrote:
I'm in the 'Don't lynch claimed PRs D1, unless there's a CC or hilariously bad fakeclaim' camp. These things work themselves out. See Simpsons Mafia as an example of why that's the case. The miller thing is basically a theory distraction, but essentially: I used to believe in lynching all claimed millers, but so many people believed millers should claim day one, and scum didn't fake miller as much as they should, so I stopped doing that. I specifically believe this specific claim to look more like the premature derp of a poor player than any kind of gambit.

So, the answer is no unless there is a cc or terrible fake claim. I don't think you can rely on things sorting themselves out. I lynch PR claims D1 quite often it works out well for me.

Not that it really matters, the point is that obviously town and scum alike often lynch claimed PR's D1 this means a generic statement of scum wouldn't try to lynch claimed PR's is obviously wrong and I believe GM knows this.
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Post Post #2284 (isolation #45) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:16 am

Post by Slandaar »

GM while you did your little dance earlier you never managed to answer this and I would like you to:
In post 2157, Slandaar wrote:You don't think a scum agenda is to look active? or to look town?
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Post Post #2285 (isolation #46) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:32 am

Post by Slandaar »

I think PV felt is was possible Thor 'slipped' and considered it a strong possibility that if the game is multiball Thor is scum. You don't really need to make a big deal about it as you can wait a day or two when you know if it is or isn't leaving it in a reads list is no problem.

Then Thor goes after him for it, PV produces meta showing in his experience generally this sized game isn't multiball, Thor misreps PV by saying he should include SK's in the numbers and then from there PV is obviously going to suspect Thor - I also strongly disagree it was obvious Thor was using the term multi-ball to include SK's (backs up the above)

So, yes I think PV thought Thor is scum when he was voting him/was scumhunting him.

The argument about MB I need to look at a bit but basically I thought he was mostly arguing what he assumed the setup would be based on his experience because that was really what the argument was about. As said I need to look at your conversation thread as that does look different.
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Post Post #2293 (isolation #47) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:04 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2287, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2285, Slandaar wrote:Thor misreps PV by saying he should include SK's in the numbers

:neutral:
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

What word?

Misrep? I think that is the first time I used it.

PV clearly was using multiball to mean games with 2 scumteams therefore suggesting he should include SK's is a misrepresentation of what he is saying.
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Post Post #2301 (isolation #48) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:55 am

Post by Slandaar »

You said multiball blah blah. He thought you used the term multiball to mean 2 scumteams. His argument obviously was not talking about games with SK. How would you as scum know there is an SK? it's impossible. He clearly was not making that argument.

It was absolutely required that multiball in the entire discussion means 2 scumteams.

YOU did not tell him you meant SK+scum instead asking him to provide meta

Only then did you bring up the SK+scum meaning multiball when his meta showed that actually 2 scum teams is not that likely I think it was 2/7 doesn't matter though the number.

You are misrepresenting his argument by saying SK games should be applied because clearly that was not his argument.

It doesn't matter if he misinterpreted your meaning. The difference is I find it very hard to believe you thought he was talking about games with SK the entire time thus you didn't misinterpret you misrepresented.
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Post Post #2302 (isolation #49) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:57 am

Post by Slandaar »

Also I liked that film but don't feel like watching it right now :]
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Post Post #2303 (isolation #50) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:58 am

Post by Slandaar »

And in case you are wondering yes I think you would do that as town because you cannot concede an argument ever.
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Post Post #2304 (isolation #51) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:06 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2290, Egg wrote:Slandaar, not the point. Pere has been saying all along that he thinks there is one team and a SK unless I'm remembering wrong. Why did you feel the need to answer for him?

Well that isn't what he has been saying.

I answered for him because he clearly was having problems defending himself so I am now his guardian angel. What of it?
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Post Post #2307 (isolation #52) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:21 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2197, Aneninen wrote:You can say that too. I say: I might have skimmed over certain things in GM's posts.

You skimmed over the part where she explained her main scumread?

That seems quite an important part of her posting to skip.
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Post Post #2308 (isolation #53) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:22 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2306, davesaz wrote:I don't think you can call it misrepresenting when person B is correcting person A's interpretation of B's own statement. B said something, A used an incorrect meaning of B's words, B corrected A. Not a misrep.

It didn't happen like this.

He didn't correct him he said 'WELL INCLUDE THESE SK GAMES TOO SEE YOU'RE WRONG!!!'
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Post Post #2312 (isolation #54) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:32 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 583, Thor665 wrote:Adjusted that for how it was used in the discussion.
Adding in the other SK ones changes it to a 6/13 ratio.
Meaning, roughly, 50%

This is not a correction, this is Thor saying PV is wrong it's 50% when clearly in the discussion PV was not meaning SK+scum games. At this point Thor should have realized (he should have before but this is the absolute latest) that PV meant only games with 2 scumteams.

This means when Thor says 'adjusted for how it was used in the discussion' he is misrepresenting PV because clearly that was not how PV was using the term multiball in the discussion.

It does not matter what Thor's original meaning was.
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Post Post #2313 (isolation #55) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:36 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2192, Scripten wrote:
In post 2181, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2171, Scripten wrote:Everyone else is hinging on various levels of null for me.

Am I?


Yup.

I got the impression you had a variation of town read on me earlier. It doesn't feel right.
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Post Post #2314 (isolation #56) » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:38 am

Post by Slandaar »

Alright just going to respond to this one line might do rest of post tomorrow
In post 2164, Aneninen wrote:Still, it was misleading in my opinion.

What is your point?

Do you think I was actually suggesting you said those words?
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Post Post #2402 (isolation #57) » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:12 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2286, goodmorning wrote:Maybe for some people, but for me looking active doesn't matter and looking Town just comes along with figuring out the game; if you figure it out and make valid observations, people are going to townread you, even if the Scum you catch are Town.

I think you try to give the impression you are scumhunting to look town - looking town is absolutely an agenda for scum.

I mean the fact is you are perfectly describing your play regarding Csareo. Trying to figure out if he is a PR or a mislynch when the heat was on him - arguing every tiny little thing for no real reason and then deciding he was town later after he was replaced and the heat had gone.

Coincidence?

Why did you need that last huge wall you posted when you had him as town?
Why didn't you ever vote Csareo?
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Post Post #2403 (isolation #58) » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:15 am

Post by Slandaar »

Axle...

TSO is town.
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Post Post #2405 (isolation #59) » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:37 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2318, Thor665 wrote:
I agree that his argument makes no particular sense in any way?

It makes sense with his interpretation of multiball.
In post 2318, Thor665 wrote:
Yes, and then he acted like 'it happening about 33% of the time equates to Thor is wrong equates to Pere's tell is valid.'
Which it doesn't.
Even if we don't count SKs.

Mmm I think this was more a defensive thing saying his initial argument was using only 2 scumteams thus his argument was valid.
In post 2318, Thor665 wrote:
Since my initial commentary was in response to someone using a tell that was based on the idea that 'this is valid unless there are scum that are not part of my scum team' then, actually, it wasn't the first time I brought it up though I will agree it was the first time I openly explained it.

Well the point is that it only matters when PV thought you were including SK's and I feel what we have agreed on is a fair point for him to do so.
In post 2318, Thor665 wrote:
After the explanation Pere chose to debate *that* with me as opposed to reassessing the validity of his tell or explaining how it still worked even with my usage of the word.

Lets refresh our memories.
In post 583, Thor665 wrote:
Adjusted that for how it was used in the discussion.
Adding in the other SK ones changes it to a 6/13 ratio.
Meaning, roughly, 50%

So...yeah, I think that is a safe assumption to have in your head Day 1.

In post 597, PeregrineV wrote:Except Multiball means 2 scumteams, as per the definition: "Serial Killers and other one-person groups do not count; the term is specific to scum groups of multiple players."
So, your attempt to use SKs to discredit me is pretty blatant.

At this point I see no issue with PV saying this - it reinforces his interpretation of multiball. He also accuses you of trying to discredit which to be honest is fair at this point because you should have said you were including SK's much earlier as it was obvious PV wasn't so it appears like you are just saying this out of the blue.

Use quotes please in future.
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Post Post #2406 (isolation #60) » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:41 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2318, Thor665 wrote:I am actually saying that I meant that SK should be included.
I actually never said whether his point was valid or not - I said his point didn't matter.

His point does matter because it is your argument against him - the point doesn't make sense. Which it does when you use PV's interpretation of multiball and his meta.

???
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Post Post #2418 (isolation #61) » Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:00 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2407, Thor665 wrote:
Except it wasn't.

It was.

Now, the issue is we don't know if we are talking about the same thing because you are not using quotes.
In post 2407, Thor665 wrote:
He showed I was right 33% of the time even using the criteria he thought I ment as opposed to what I thought I meant.
Why is it not a safe assumption to consider something that happens 33% of the time?
This is even if we wish to accept he, and you, think I'm lying about the SK thing.

Well it's not 33% it was like 29% which sounds much worse even when the difference is small.

I mean if you have that experience then you are not going to assume something happens when it only happens 29% of the time. It's obviously not a safe assumption. Are you smoking something Thor? Do you think it's a safe assumption that something which happens 29% of the time will happen?

I didn't say you are lying.
In post 2407, Thor665 wrote:
Also - you don't address what he does *after* I clarify the SK point - whether or not you think I presented it at the right time to him is immaterial, the very words I'm using and the way I said them clearly showcase that *YES* that was what I was thinking, yet he doesn't adjust or shift, or recodify, or reconsider, or anything.

I think he didn't believe you which is where you assumed PV thought you were lying in the above quote (and you thought I was), remember?
In post 2407, Thor665 wrote:
And, regardless of that fact, it still fails to make his stance anything better than 'I disagree with Thor's opinion'.
Except he calls it a scumtell.
Why?

Thor who do you think knows better about whether or not your SK's are multiball was clearly displayed in thread? You or I?

I would like a response because there is only one correct answer. It did come over that way.

His stance is now 'Thor just included SK's into an argument about 2 scum team games to try and discredit me' and it does come over badly because you should have made the issue clear much earlier in the discussion as it was obvious what PV meant. Thus PV's later stances make sense.
In post 2407, Thor665 wrote:
Also, you earlier claimed I had not corrected him.
Now apparently you agree I corrected him but not in a timely manner.
:neutral:
What the fug?

I was talking from your POV the second time not that I actually said that - You should have realized PV wasn't talking about SK games much earlier (than apparently you did) thus should have brought it up prior to this because the way you did bring SK's into the picture felt very out of the blue.

In post 2407, Thor665 wrote:
No, seriously, you're all like 'Pere's thing makes sense (though I'm not saying sense for what or what that actually says about Pere's alignment) but you're kvetching that though Pere couldn't figure out I meant SKs quickly enough, that I needed to figure out he didn't mea them...and should have said so sooner...even though I did say so...what are you even saying here? I don't get your point at all. I did correct him, let's even say I'm dense and corrected him later than Ishould have. Fine.
So what?
Seriously, so what - what does that show about my alignment? What does it show about Pere's? How does it make his argument pro-town or his scumtell sensible?

The so what is you are saying this was scummy from PV I am saying it isn't because of how things happened.

That is the point.
In post 2407, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2406, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2318, Thor665 wrote:I am actually saying that I meant that SK should be included.
I actually never said whether his point was valid or not - I said his point didn't matter.

His point does matter because it is your argument against him
- the point doesn't make sense. Which it does when you use PV's interpretation of multiball and his meta.

???

What do you think my point against him is?

At the point we are talking about that his multiball argument is terrible basically.
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Post Post #2438 (isolation #62) » Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:57 pm

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2408, goodmorning wrote:If you mean 239, I was still walking through his questioning, pruning out the weak points. I didn't read him as Town before I finished questioning him.

That's the one.

Let's get this straight then. You didn't have a townread before finishing questioning but he never answered/responded to your huge wall post... where exactly did this townread come from then?
In post 2408, goodmorning wrote:Because I never thought he was Scum. He was a nullread with a weird case on TSO whom I questioned for thought process and found it present.

Yes well you never said it explicictly but...
In post 62, goodmorning wrote:Sorry, rolefishing isn't scummy now?

This does have implications...

Have a good morning :]
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Post Post #2439 (isolation #63) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:32 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2419, Thor665 wrote:Well...what the hell dude?
1. That's not what I was saying.
2. Even if you thought it was - the question is why Pere thought it was *scummy* that I was saying that.
3. What the hell is this pedant spiral you want us in?

PV's experience is this happens 29% of the time. He sees you who has also played a lot and he thinks you should think similar to him that multiball (two scumteams) is not too likely (29%).

So, when he sees your multiball post, he thinks you wouldn't assume this if you were town thus it seems suspicious to him and in his reads list he posts this.

There you go. This is what his meta should have told you and even if you don't like the argument you can understand it.

So, at this point where he has posted the meta, we can now agree nothing is scummy. It's a bad argument that is it.
In post 2419, Thor665 wrote:So?
You did say his case made sense - and I said it doesn't.

So? you misinterpreted my meaning and I was correcting you.

The 'case' does make sense read above.
In post 2419, Thor665 wrote:You seem, like him, to be focused on whether he is statistically correct which though I disagreed that he was had NOTHING to do with my scum case on him

Of course it matters your argument is his argument doesn't make any sense but when the % is lower it makes more and more sense. It's like if someone just randomly assumes SK in a mini normal that is suspicious due to the % chance there is an SK they shouldn't be assuming it.

The rest of the post:
I know how it came across because I read it all with an independent view. You do not have this benefit, you can only think about how you intended it to come across and how you think it would have.

The SK introduction did not come over well at all - it was very out of the blue.
In post 557, Thor665 wrote:Please provide me a link to all the 21+ player games you have been in recently that were not multiball.
I presume it's a majority?

He responds showing this is the case and you throw in SK's to 'explain' you meant SK's in multiball too but obviously PV didn't.

You know if you had just said 'I meant SK's in multiball' and seen what he said things would have gone better. Instead you made it sound like that was obvious so he responds with the wiki link and accuses of discrediting because of how you responded being terrible.
In post 2419, Thor665 wrote:I clarified everything

Where do you think you clarified everything - what exact point are you talking about?
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Post Post #2459 (isolation #64) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:09 am

Post by Slandaar »

Perhaps there should be a larger wagon at this point in an ideal world Thor but that is in large part your fault for pushing the PV wagon this much when it just is plain bad.
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Post Post #2535 (isolation #65) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:44 am

Post by Slandaar »

Last second grab for street cred for when PV flips scum
(also - no lynch was never even remotely likely)

VOTE: PV
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Post Post #2540 (isolation #66) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:15 am

Post by Slandaar »

I was just joking with my vote obviously. I knew PV was dead.
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Post Post #2547 (isolation #67) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:24 am

Post by Slandaar »

I tried PV :(
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Post Post #2568 (isolation #68) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:41 pm

Post by Slandaar »

Hrm.

I need to think about things.
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Post Post #2571 (isolation #69) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:48 pm

Post by Slandaar »

Boon if there is no scum in Thor's hood why is there one in yours?

Just ignore the hoods.
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Post Post #2574 (isolation #70) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:57 pm

Post by Slandaar »

You should assume the hoods are random. Anything else is just bad.
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Post Post #2591 (isolation #71) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:40 pm

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2580, Nero Cain wrote:fuck no. Even if Aegor were all like
"HEY I HAVE A GREAT IDEA, I'M GOING TO MAKE A GAME WITH THREE HOODS BUT ASSIGN SCUM RANDOMLY" the chances of all scum being outside of the hoods is very very small. + there's some really scummy/suspicious players in the hoods anyways.

I don't understand what this has to do with what I said.

So, if we are not assuming random what are we assuming? how many scum should I be assuming in each of the hoods Nero? 1 in each?
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Post Post #2707 (isolation #72) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:12 am

Post by Slandaar »

VOTE: Shiro
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Post Post #2718 (isolation #73) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:13 am

Post by Slandaar »


I think you mean:
:]

Together we shall create a giant wagon in no time Thorsie!

In post 2708, TierShift wrote:That vote is slightly disturbing; please explain it further.

Shiro is scum.

In post 2712, T S O wrote:slanderrrrrrrrr are you scum?

No.

TSOOOOOOOOOOOOO are you scum?

I really find a lot of the discussion in the thread completely pointless and terrible. Lets just have a nice sheep Slandaar day (With some credit upon successful scum lynch going to Thor for forcing me to look at Shiro)
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Post Post #2721 (isolation #74) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:26 am

Post by Slandaar »

Everyone gets mad at me and I die horribly probably but meh I am confident.
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Post Post #2777 (isolation #75) » Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:53 pm

Post by Slandaar »

Move along people, nothing to see here, it's not a scumslip.

Goodmorning, I hear you are the instigator of this accusation, please, step into my office for a minute :]
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Post Post #2778 (isolation #76) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:02 am

Post by Slandaar »

I didn't even realize Shiro is WBO yesterday when I voted. Too perfect. I hated WBO's entrance what there was of one; it read completely fake.

Join the revolution and lynch scum today - vote Shiro.
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Post Post #2780 (isolation #77) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:04 am

Post by Slandaar »

Shiro what do you think about IZ's 'slip'?
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Post Post #2793 (isolation #78) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:20 am

Post by Slandaar »

Axle is town.
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Post Post #2797 (isolation #79) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:42 am

Post by Slandaar »

I can indeed give a reason. What is Shiro's stance on IZ 'slip'? Is it or isn't it? :cool:

I will post a proper case later.
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Post Post #2798 (isolation #80) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:44 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2796, davesaz wrote:This statement is missing a "because" clause. I don't like that for town statements any better than I do for votes.

Because he has a town PM.

You are right the because is very important.
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Post Post #2801 (isolation #81) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:56 am

Post by Slandaar »

There isn't a point explaining it Dave. He thinks as I think in a few places it makes him town.
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Post Post #2805 (isolation #82) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:58 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2800, goodmorning wrote:Maybe we can lynch Slandaar today. He clearly isn't interested in actually being helpful.

You would like that eh? :]

Are you telling me town wouldn't ever assume 1 scum in each hood?
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Post Post #2810 (isolation #83) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:04 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2808, goodmorning wrote:Izariael had already demonstrated that he wasn't.

He was for the second statement.

So, we have him saying to not assume scum in the hoods and then assuming it. I can see town doing that especially with the large sized hoods because even though you shouldn't it is easy to assume there is. What is the issue? He did something he said you shouldn't do? no-one ever does that eh? People will say you shouldn't smoke and still smoke themselves.
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Post Post #2815 (isolation #84) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:07 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2813, goodmorning wrote:Which is why I said it looked like a scumslip and, rather than assume it was (the jury is still out), decided to have a conversation about it. I'm getting a little annoyed that you seem to see only what you want to see in my posting.

I don't know exactly what you said because I did not see it.

From what I can tell you accused him of it which actually is fine, I don't care, I can absolutely see why you or anyone might think it was. I have since contributed to the conversation which you say you wanted and ended it by showing it is not a scum-slip of any kind.

Now, this, 'which is why I said it looked like' implies you knew what I said already.

Did you?
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Post Post #2816 (isolation #85) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:17 am

Post by Slandaar »

OK lets try something new. Each day I will give you a reason to vote Shiro. One per day. Although I kind of already posted one today I won't count that.

Day 1: He has no scumreads. He has no real direction in his posting this is particularly noticeable today. 2807 is his best post by far and it is worded very weak without a vote or anything.

Nice, quick and simple. Newbie scum finding it hard to accuse people of scum.
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Post Post #2820 (isolation #86) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:47 am

Post by Slandaar »

I never understood the reaching out nonsense.

The image is fantastic though :]
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Post Post #2830 (isolation #87) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:17 am

Post by Slandaar »

Day 2:
In post 2462, Shiro wrote:Thor can I ask you something ? I think I understand your reason behind Pere wagoon but why wouldnt scum pere back off when he had the chance ? I mean he had a few chances biggest being the one where it was pointed that there was a misundersating with what multball meant. Why wouldn't he step away and spare himself all this trouble ? He was clearly losing the argument anyway.

He thinks he understands the case but feels Peregrine would do 'insert random action' if he were scum which, he didn't, thus he asks Thor about this. It completely reads like scum who wants to take as little responsibility as possible. He isn't arguing the case or agreeing with it just making some mundane point and his final conclusion was unclear - he voted PV. (Which somewhat relates to the Day 1 point (lack of accusation) and also what will be the Day 3 point so stay tuned!).

Related somewhat I really like this method of posting cases :]
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Post Post #2836 (isolation #88) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:03 am

Post by Slandaar »

Don't be sad Axle you only need to wait 24 hours for my next point against Shiro.
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Post Post #2837 (isolation #89) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:20 am

Post by Slandaar »

If you want a serious response: TSO is town because I liked a couple of his points on Anen even if they were shot down they are town arguments. Town arguments are quite wild and unique a lot of the time. Scum tend to use safe arguments.

Lets take GM her argument on Thor is tone. (I would use Shiro but ha you have to wait) You can't accuse her for her argument it's so safe. And that is her only argument. Then take this scumslip look how safe she is. She is trying to say she wanted input on it as she was unsure. Town just accuse of a scumslip, kind of what Boon is doing with his posting. GM has taken the safe 'I better not push this without everyone's approval' stance.
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Post Post #2843 (isolation #90) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:18 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 1065, T S O wrote:
In post 42, Aneninen wrote:Hi,

I haven't fokking read anything and won't do so right now because I'll go to work soon. However, I like the fact that there are 21 players here. Obviously, I won't self-vote so I can roll a d20 for a RVS vote.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Oh. Reasoning for the vote. We want to adopt a kitty and my sweetheart is talking about one who was posted on Facebook yesterday. If we had that kitty right now, he would vote on you. We must respect the kitty's will.


He rolled a dice for his RVS vote, before then giving reasoning for the vote.

Why do fucking both of them?

It is quite risky to use the RVS post as you know people are going to go 'That's an RVS post scum!!!'. I know the context of the post too and this still applies.
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Post Post #2846 (isolation #91) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:39 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2842, AxleGreaser wrote:hey that point on Shiro has traction. Problem. Context. Newer players in scary (large game, lots of posts, late entry) will tend to play safe even as town.
but that is certainly now a rock I will look under.
Also I guess this tell means you cant read Majiffy or Varsoon for shit with it yeah?
Thus
Are you sure it works on TSO?

I have not made my Day 3 point on Shiro yet... Patience :]

Never misread Majiffy in 4 games I think it is. Varsoon eh I don't remember him much I was scum the game I played with him and read him correctly. You have to apply the right things to the right people... I tend to find the use an RVS post late in the game is town near enough universally though because scum will later drop it as it was an RVS post while town hang onto it.
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Post Post #2847 (isolation #92) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:41 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2841, davesaz wrote:Why? Or more to the point, how does it help town?

Well normally towns complain about huge walls so now I am providing an alternate method. You get an argument and slowly over the Day more appear and it starts to beat into you Shiro is scum. It's similar to marketing :]
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Post Post #2848 (isolation #93) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:42 am

Post by Slandaar »

I suppose that doesn't answer the question: It helps town because you lynch scum.
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Post Post #2849 (isolation #94) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:51 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2844, AxleGreaser wrote:
Pop quiz.

Town or scum?
In post 279, Cho wrote:Because TierShift wants to. Because I want to. I thought I made that clear.


I don't think it means anything. He is clearly putting on an act there for one reason or another.
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Post Post #2862 (isolation #95) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:27 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2850, AxleGreaser wrote:yeah but TSO didnt just rely on RVS by choice.

Yes, but I like the argument and he included it.
In post 2851, AxleGreaser wrote:and as per my last post I think TSO has been putting on an act.

I think TSO always acts. But ignoring that; I don't think the act he is using makes him scum.

I may go through the rest of 2850 at some point but it is just going to get a bit pointless. I really like the inclusion of the RVS argument it's very town.
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Post Post #2863 (isolation #96) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:06 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2852, goodmorning wrote:I'm not interested in anyone else's opinion on what may or may not have been a slip. I am interested in clarifying Izariael's possible slip with Izariael only.

I will respond properly to this post at some point.

I find this line very very sly.
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Post Post #2894 (isolation #97) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:09 pm

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2892, goodmorning wrote:I found the line about you not having seen what I said very sly, considering you didn't see what Izariael said either.

How would I see it in your hood qt?
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Post Post #2931 (isolation #98) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:13 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2919, goodmorning wrote:Do you remember the context in which you said that line? If not, there's no point to this.

Yes I do. I didn't see what you said in the hood qt where you initially brought it up thus I can't know exactly what you said and went off what Boon said. Not that it matters as I said.

Do you have a point to this?
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Post Post #2935 (isolation #99) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:22 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2852, goodmorning wrote:I'm not interested in anyone else's opinion on what may or may not have been a slip. I am interested in clarifying Izariael's possible slip with Izariael only.

IZ's stance is he did exactly what you accused him of he thinks it is bad to assume scum in the hoods but did in said instance. He made this obvious days ago. I assume you are saying it is a slip?

Why are you not interested in anyone else's opinion on the subject? Did you not find my input useful into your decision making?
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Post Post #2936 (isolation #100) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:22 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2934, Shiro wrote:@Slander where is the third point ?I was ill with my tv tuned but I think I missed it :/

The day is young.
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Post Post #2942 (isolation #101) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:03 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2852, goodmorning wrote:To me that reads like a newb in over his head as either alignment. What makes you read it as Scum specifically?

He showed reluctance to vote PV while also showing a willingness to do so. It's very scum 'I don't want responsibility for voting town'
In post 2852, goodmorning wrote:
You were not this aggravating to play with last time we encountered each other.

I have no idea how you can remember my play from a game so long ago.

I annoy people all the time as town. Whether I annoyed you specifically in that game, I don't know, not sure what it has to do with anything though?
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Post Post #2943 (isolation #102) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:06 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2867, T S O wrote:I don't know if me "always acting" is a good thing or a bad thing.

It's just a thing.
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Post Post #2944 (isolation #103) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:11 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2886, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2862, Slandaar wrote:I think TSO always acts. But ignoring that; I don't think the act he is using makes him scum.


The act is why, his reads were based as they were and your tell less relevant than it sometimes is.
The act was to slam at perceived weaker players, never state actually why they were scummy, (as opposed to bad (ergo weaker players)) and never look back.
Lots of bravado
In post 1113, T S O wrote:hardball


No substance. (especially none that can be refuted as it fails to reference specific examples.)

Safe.

TSO does put on fake bravado as town. He also does the old 'I ain't posting no reasons lol!'.

It's bad, yes, but he does. I have literally chased him down for this exact thing in a previous game.
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Post Post #2945 (isolation #104) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:17 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2907, Boonskiies wrote:Town two shot bulletproof neighbor.

:]

I thought you were VT but that makes sense also.
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Post Post #2946 (isolation #105) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:18 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2919, goodmorning wrote:HOW MUCH MORE ATTENTION-GRABBING DO I HAVE TO MAKE THIS: IS ANYONE AT ALL TOWNREADING THOR RIGHT NOW? FUCKING EXPLAIN IT.

Yes I think he is.

Tone.

:cool:
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Post Post #2947 (isolation #106) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:21 am

Post by Slandaar »

OK last post for a while... Boon is town, he is actually trying to scumhunt with some quite wild theories which have some interesting levels of thought behind them even if the scumhunting is sub-par.
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Post Post #2949 (isolation #107) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:51 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2948, goodmorning wrote:You felt fine judging that Izariael's statement was not a scumslip without seeing it. When I took issue with you, you used "I didn't see your post" as an excuse. These things are mildly contradictory.

OK let's just recap

I say you accused him of the slip.
You say: No I didn't you are misrepping me I wanted a discussion!!!
I say: Well maybe but I didn't see what you said in your hood qt so whatever it's chinese whispers.

Call it an excuse if you like but it's obviously true as I can't see your qt.

Your point then is this mildly contradicts me saying IZ didn't slip when the 'slip' had been explained very nicely in the thread? was it not explained correctly? (you probably should have said something) :]
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Post Post #2952 (isolation #108) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:12 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2948, goodmorning wrote:Look, I am now scumreading him based on him posting nothing but easy posts yesterday. Care to comment, or shall I ignore you the rest of the Day?

I am not really good at explaining townreads. I mean I basically read people based on their ability level and then apply concepts to them I think apply. With Thor I feel his push on PV is believable from him but while I obviously had PV as town yesterday I initially did like Thor's case. The issue arose as I brought up when PV showed his meta, this should have shut down the whole debate really. It didn't but then Thor as I have said previously won't concede an argument, he has to win it, so hence he introduced SK's in a bad way. PV then was convinced Thor was scum and so off they went into the sunset.

Point being Thor's original argument was good and I liked it, I also feel he would have dropped the argument with the meta's appearance if he were scum but this is based on my feeling of his meta.
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Post Post #2964 (isolation #109) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:41 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2956, T S O wrote:
Which game was this again? I don't remember it. It wasn't Flavor Caper, and when I played as Catastrophe with you, we were derphammered p2.

This one
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Post Post #2986 (isolation #110) » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:47 pm

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2971, Shiro wrote:
@Slander the day ends for me in half an hour where is point 3 D:

Thanks for reminding me!

Day 3:
In post 2781, Shiro wrote:
In post 2780, Slandaar wrote:Shiro what do you think about IZ's 'slip'?


Well it did seem terrible at the time but Boon does blow it out of proportion.

It could be a slip that he knows every hood has scum thus being scum but I cannot really make logic of the kills if that is the case.

If it was a slip that mean each hood has scum. Thor is last in his hood. If it is indeed a slip killing egg was the worst move scum could make.

Same for anen since that is what brought all the attention cause of the plan thus incriminating the two man hood badly. (presuming oher mafia team,sk or vig killed egg)

It just doesnt make sense with the people that died n1.

Then again it might have been a slip and they werent fast enought to change kills since all that happened few hour before night deadline.

Town near enough always know the conclusion of their post before they write it thus generally you get much more to the point answers (which is why waffling is scummy) so, town will say 'I think it is X' and they might add because... while here we have an explanation with no definitive conclusion. It's written out like he is trying to work out his own thoughts which he shouldn't need to do as he should have an opinion on it already whether he thinks it's a slip or not even if the opinion is 'I am unsure need to think more'. Think about in life, people who waffle generally will go 'well I dunno maybe it's that but ehh I can see this' the conclusion is 'I dunno'
(needs more time)

Besides that though he seems to focus on the night kills as the counter point, this seems weird to me, if he thinks Thor is town so it can't be a slip yes that is kind of valid but it's a very weird way to look at it he is not looking at the actual point ie IZ assumed something he said not to and tackling this. I find this to read very much like in the know scum because of the way he has not focused on the actual slip itself. Also Thorscum can kill Anen while there doesn't have to be a 2 man hood which debunks the whole kill stuff anyways which is quite an oversight when you are thinking about things in this way.
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Post Post #3090 (isolation #111) » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:32 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2987, Shiro wrote:My point was that Scum Iz would be in a horrible place with both kills. Anen cause it attacts attention to him(like it did) Egg cause it makes Thor look horrible. if we assume it was a slip and Thor and Iz are scum buddies both kills attract attention to mafia

Wasn't scum IZ in a horrible place anyways? Who would scum IZ kill theoretically to not be in a horrible place?

The egg kill makes Thor look bad only when people assume there is scum in each of the hoods which no-one should be doing.
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Post Post #3148 (isolation #112) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:21 am

Post by Slandaar »

Hey guys it's still Thursday right?!
In post 1737, WBOCampfire1104 wrote:It's been 8 months since I've played a game. Wow.

I'm gonna go back and investigate.

Peace.

Reads completely fake. It literally makes me laugh reading it and he wasn't trying to be funny.
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Post Post #3150 (isolation #113) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:37 am

Post by Slandaar »

It reads badly. Another way of saying this is Tone which is a popular argument in this game.
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Post Post #3152 (isolation #114) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:47 am

Post by Slandaar »

Don't worry Shiro I have a great point to write up today all about you! That was just a quickie because it was for yesterday and wanted to use it at some point anyways.

I haven't actually read the last couple of pages so eh. I don't know what Thor's 'case' is - vote placement and gut? pretty bland but whatever it doesn't really matter.
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Post Post #3153 (isolation #115) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:58 am

Post by Slandaar »

Thor I hear you are currently looking for a guardian angel. I would like to apply for the position but unfortunately my credentials are quite bad, I was previously Peregrines Guardian Angel and he died horribly but I have learnt from this and grown as a guardian angel. I am sure I can do better this time. I expect the other applicants are going to have better credentials but I really think I would be the perfect person for it. Let me know either way.
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Post Post #3154 (isolation #116) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:02 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3149, Garmr wrote:Which makes me think you thought it was scummy. Can you explain how it's scummy?

It's not really scummy.

I am saying this AXLE because this relates to TSO's RVS argument on Anen which is very similar. Just because it isn't scummy per se doesn't mean it isn't suspicious.
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Post Post #3155 (isolation #117) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:06 am

Post by Slandaar »

I mean the suspicion comes from the idea that scum can have a nervous/awkward entrance to the game hence both my argument there and TSO's being very similar in nature. Is it more likely from scum? yes I think so, is there any scum motivation? no.
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Post Post #3157 (isolation #118) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:15 am

Post by Slandaar »

Yes.
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Post Post #3158 (isolation #119) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:17 am

Post by Slandaar »

I have read everything.
(just in case you are wondering due to my earlier post)
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Post Post #3160 (isolation #120) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:43 am

Post by Slandaar »

So, uh, did I get the job?

:good:
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Post Post #3164 (isolation #121) » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:35 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3161, Thor665 wrote:The job offer is one you created - it is one that only you can choose to fill or to not fill. I'm not part of that conversation.

I see I am already the staff recruiter?! I can appoint the Guardian Angel myself?! I shall take the position then Thorsie!

I got this now Thorsie no problems!
In post 3162, Garmr wrote:I don't get why you feel the need to ask thor slandaar you either do or you don't that's a pretty weird thing to do.

If you want a serious answer: fun.
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Post Post #3284 (isolation #122) » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:08 am

Post by Slandaar »

Thor

I got this.
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Post Post #3285 (isolation #123) » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:15 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2420, Shiro wrote:
Pere is honestly the same but less regard. He is only off when talking with Thor but most people that argued with thor ended up seeming off after it is that a thing ? I did notice he has a knack for winning argument. The fact that most people on pere wagoon have little reason of their own and just follow thor is off by itself . Especially earlier. Liek using Thor abbility to push well to further a lynch. He pretyt much hold his own when talking to others about the case.

I guess best wagon is Anen. His posts seem off and coming right out of a game that he was town(even if I was maf) his post don't have the same town vibe they had there. I don't really know how to explain this tbh. Has GM noted anything similar to that ? If I recall Tier has and he was in the same game I speak of.

Mentions Pere and Ane equallyish.
In post 2436, Shiro wrote:Hmmm first of the pigeon jokes felt off I had hard time believing that the person that made a complicated impssible to see crypto message acted that way.

He had many posts that made little sense but screamed screamed town. I don't really see that here either

His approach to being top counterwagon want as defensive.

I get the feeling he is more laid back here but that might be cause of his TSO interaction which would have made most people go fuck it.

Tier has a point though half a newbie game isn't sufficient meta to cross check.

That is on top of my head. Will read his and Pere ISOs when I get home to try and make a better conclusion .

Talks about Anen mostly brief mention of PV
In post 2462, Shiro wrote:Thor can I ask you something ? I think I understand your reason behind Pere wagoon but why wouldnt scum pere back off when he had the chance ? I mean he had a few chances biggest being the one where it was pointed that there was a misundersating with what multball meant. Why wouldn't he step away and spare himself all this trouble ? He was clearly losing the argument anyway.

Asks about PV
In post 2488, Shiro wrote:Ok after reading Anen ISO a few times I don't see him as scummy as I initialy though maybe TSO constant "He is scum" rubbed on me as I was reading through everything in one go.

Axl

1. Well when pressured and your response is pooping it did make me raise an eyebrow but then again he was pressured with pretty much nothing. Soo..

2. Well for one when in L-1 he stopped caring about not getting lynched and tried to show what should be looked at if he is lynched.

3. No which is why I said it is probably because of TSO action.

4. Yes actually. I mean why respond defensivly to empty stuff ?

5. Well as I mentioned a bit above after re reading it like 2 times I am left with a better impression. *Sigh*

Also not sure if that what you asked but:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=58764
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=58767


Eh I dunno I am not going ot vote for Thor wagoon cause it makes absolutly no sense, and now after the re reads I feel relucant to vote for Anen. He does seem like a nicely placed mislynch. God damn it...Dx

@Dave if that makes any diifference back in the game she was IC with me everyone did say that her day 1 play is evassive and vague as town. Litteraly everyone that knew her said so. It drove a person mad xD

Lots of thoughts about Anen
In post 2513, Shiro wrote:
VOTE:PERE


I thought Anen was best but eh now I dont want it and Thor is still a really horrible wagon imo so yea

Votes PV

So, we can see way more discussion about Ane than PV.
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Post Post #3286 (isolation #124) » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:20 am

Post by Slandaar »

I think that actually explains why I dislike 2462 so much. Anen get's all these thoughts about him and PV gets a 'Thor wouldn't PV do x as scum??'
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Post Post #3288 (isolation #125) » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:25 am

Post by Slandaar »

PV was the leading wagon, whom you voted while managing to take no responsibility with your vote with the progression you took.
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Post Post #3291 (isolation #126) » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:47 am

Post by Slandaar »

If you have two wagons you would expect someone who is town to look at them both equally. The issue is Shiro has focused on the smaller wagon more than the larger wagon and when he was townreading both voted the larger wagon with no real reason other than 'the other wagon is town'.
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Post Post #3300 (isolation #127) » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3290, AxleGreaser wrote:does that mean you just showed something Thor said was right?

I explained what he is saying.
In post 3290, AxleGreaser wrote:Was it alignment indicative?

How?

Not really, How muffin and GM tackled it is pretty terrible but it's mostly just showing them what Thor is saying and then we can see how they react to it.
In post 3292, AxleGreaser wrote:
I asked Shiro questions about Anen. Shiro replied.

I see your point.

I still think what he has done is gone and passed responsibility of his vote to Thor by asking the 'Wouldn't PV do X' and then not responding to Thor's answer just later voting PV.

Sorry my internet is dying at the moment... don't expect the quickest responses.
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Post Post #3301 (isolation #128) » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:31 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3293, Izariael wrote:
Why is Shiro's vote any scummier than the others? I think there were several votes on there that were far scummier than a replacement player voting into a deadline lynch.

If you show me which votes you find scummy I will explain.

I would be interested to see that regardless.

In post 3294, Izariael wrote:Should she have instead separated herself from the major wagons and voted for someone else entirely in a manner that would have no impact on the final result beyond pushing us closer to no-lynch?

No, I am not saying this. It's how he did it. If he had said 'Well I think they are both town so don't care which is lynched PV is larger wagon vote:PV' that would be fine but he didn't.
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Post Post #3305 (isolation #129) » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:45 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3167, davesaz wrote:This pings me a bit. Sure, a little fun can be good, but this would also make a nice intro to actually defending Thor under the guise of a make-believe angel role.

The objective of playing a game is really to have fun. I mean win is also there and ideally do both but if it's not fun what are you playing for?
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Post Post #3306 (isolation #130) » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:48 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3302, AxleGreaser wrote:Yeas and as per 3297 that is a point not a case to lynch on D2.

It isn't the case it's a point like you say...
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Post Post #3309 (isolation #131) » Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:06 am

Post by Slandaar »

I do have some suspicion of Garmr mostly for the way he has been nibbling at me recently after I basically rejected his reaching out thing but I much prefer Shiro. I need to check his vote reasons at some point though which is a big part of your case so eh. Will do that today/tomorrow you can hold me to it.
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Post Post #3351 (isolation #132) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:52 am

Post by Slandaar »

Hello IZ????
In post 3301, Slandaar wrote:
In post 3293, Izariael wrote:
Why is Shiro's vote any scummier than the others? I think there were several votes on there that were far scummier than a replacement player voting into a deadline lynch.

If you show me which votes you find scummy I will explain.

I would be interested to see that regardless.
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Post Post #3356 (isolation #133) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:21 am

Post by Slandaar »

I am very sure Thor is town. I feel like he tried so hard yesterday and fell flat with the PV flip so came into today with a more relaxed attitude and voted Shiro which was fine. He then says something about Shiro not doing anything for ages which was wrong, sure, but whatever I don't see why Thortown is more likely to check this than Thorscum as both would want to get things right for different reasons. Then we have the quantity argument which looked fine to me, Axle has shown me the way, but no-one else seems to actually understand it or the reason it is actually wrong.

Town
Axle
Boon
Thor
TSO
Reinoe
NC
Tier
--
BC
Fonz
Garmr
IZ
Flubber
Script
Dave
GM
Shiro
Scum

Axle; I looked through things, I don't really see much in your case. If you want me to explain specific point(s) which you think are particularly good let me know I can't be bothered going through the whole thing though.
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Post Post #3357 (isolation #134) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:25 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2660, Shiro wrote:I guess you could connect Anen death to Iz but it is a thin line that had more cons that pros

Does someone actually think this isn't scum?
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Post Post #3359 (isolation #135) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:57 am

Post by Slandaar »

Hey Flubber. You could vote that townie over there but I don't think you should.
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Post Post #3364 (isolation #136) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:05 am

Post by Slandaar »

Reinoe: that was regarding the IZ slip not the case on Thor.
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Post Post #3416 (isolation #137) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:10 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3391, AxleGreaser wrote:Garmr: has before this point in the game claimed I am 85% likely to flip scum (2788)
swapped his vote onto and even stronger scum read 2941
So according to Garmr, he has found two scum and is > 85% confident both will flip scum (claims Boon > Axle == 85% scum)

The number is arbitrary it is just there to be representative of him being quite confident in each being scum.

Regarding calling your case bad instead of fabricated etc it literally means nothing. I really don't see anything in that at all; I have said my scumread's arguments/cases are bad in the past well I probably use the word terrible mostly but it's the same thing.

The wagon thing is actually really good.

:]

I didn't really 'get' what you were saying prior. Kinda read it and went ugh nothing wrong with saying that and moved on. Maybe the focus on it made me pay the extra attention... Bite sized chunks work wonders.

You have my axe good sir.

VOTE: Garmr

I will respond to all this GM stuff later...
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Post Post #3422 (isolation #138) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:06 am

Post by Slandaar »

I don't think Shiro is town.
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Post Post #3465 (isolation #139) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:26 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3462, TierShift wrote:You seem to have dropped your thor 'guardian angel' act. Why is that?

?
In post 3356, Slandaar wrote:I am very sure Thor is town. I feel like he tried so hard yesterday and fell flat with the PV flip so came into today with a more relaxed attitude and voted Shiro which was fine. He then says something about Shiro not doing anything for ages which was wrong, sure, but whatever I don't see why Thortown is more likely to check this than Thorscum as both would want to get things right for different reasons. Then we have the quantity argument which looked fine to me, Axle has shown me the way, but no-one else seems to actually understand it or the reason it is actually wrong.
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Post Post #3472 (isolation #140) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:45 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3468, davesaz wrote:@Slandaar: At the end of the 2nd quote, which "it" is actually wrong?

It's the way the mentions were brought up which is why it's wrong. It's not the number of them because Shiro clearly did talk more about Anen than PV as I demonstrated.
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Post Post #3587 (isolation #141) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:45 am

Post by Slandaar »

I fell behind a bit in terms of responding to stuff but I have read everything. Getting bogged down.

Let's lynch Garmr and move on guys. I don't even care about the read thing on Thor. He was being very survivalistic in terms of OMGUS, which is completely fine from town, no problems I omgus a lot and am very successful in catching scum doing so. The point is though that when you are town with this mentality you absolutely are not happy to be a wagon. This means when Garmr said he is OK with being the wagon he was being completely fake and trying to look town as an act. (This is completely Axle's point)
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Post Post #3588 (isolation #142) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:00 am

Post by Slandaar »

Izariael you have not shown me which of the votes on PV were scummier than Shiro's. I do want to see them and I assume you want me to explain why I think they are not as scummy?
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Post Post #3589 (isolation #143) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:13 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3365, reinoe wrote:
In post 3364, Slandaar wrote:Reinoe: that was regarding the IZ slip not the case on Thor.

So you think GM is softpushing Iza?

Not really.

What happened in a summary (wanted to do quotes but eh you can check this is factual enough)

Boon: then there is the IZ slip but will let GM explain
IZ explains slip
Sland: That is no slip. GM I hear you are the instigator of this accusation?
GM: What? I did not accuse him of anything I wanted a discussion!
Sland: Well OK I didn't see exactly what you said I didn't see the QT.

Then I made the argument you quoted which is GM basically wanting to discuss instead of accuse which is very very safe, I find townies just accuse people and let them explain not 'look I find this suspicious what do you guys think' (corrected by GM later to 'I find this suspicious lets have a talk IZ')

I like the argument and this is the answer to your question... but continuing because I wanted to show this next bit anyways;

GM: Huh? I only wanted to talk to IZ not everyone else I don't want your opinion!!
Sland: I find this very sly GM. (Surely if you want a discussion you welcome all input not just the accused's)
GM: I want to discuss with IZ only!!!
GM: I find you saying you didn't see what I said in the QT sly!
Sland: Well I didn't see what is in your QT.
GM: This is mildly contradictory giving your opinion on the slip which you didn't see while also saying you didn't see my accusation.
Sland: Uh, well the slip was well written out in the thread, the 'accusation or whatever' I never saw I don't see the issue.
Sland: Did you not find my input useful? I mean IZ already has admitted to doing what you accused him of so what is there to discuss?
GM: I WONT TALK ABOUT THIS NOW.

Something like that anyways, might be slightly out of order but that is the gist. GM is scum.
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Post Post #3590 (isolation #144) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:19 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2948, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2935, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2852, goodmorning wrote:I'm not interested in anyone else's opinion on what may or may not have been a slip. I am interested in clarifying Izariael's possible slip with Izariael only.

IZ's stance is he did exactly what you accused him of he thinks it is bad to assume scum in the hoods but did in said instance. He made this obvious days ago. I assume you are saying it is a slip?

I'm not saying anything about it at present.

See, Why is she not interested in my opinion on the subject? I felt my input was very very good. It doesn't make any sense. Have they been discussing the slip? no, Iz admitted to doing what GM said and nothing has happened since.
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Post Post #3591 (isolation #145) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:20 am

Post by Slandaar »

Which is very flimsy because either my input influenced her in which case she is interested in other's opinions OR she should be accusing Iz of a slip because he admitted to doing what she thinks is a slip and he failed to explain it away.

She is doing neither.
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Post Post #3593 (isolation #146) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:22 am

Post by Slandaar »

Do you, GM, think Iz slipped or not? (yes or no answer only please) Then: Why do you think this?
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Post Post #3595 (isolation #147) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:29 am

Post by Slandaar »

What is complicating this decision?
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Post Post #3596 (isolation #148) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:31 am

Post by Slandaar »

You think Thor is scum so it's not that 'Thor would have to be scum and I think he's town'. Where is the complicated issue here? either you think it is or you think it isn't.
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Post Post #3705 (isolation #149) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:14 am

Post by Slandaar »

That is quite possibly the longest post I have ever seen.
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Post Post #3708 (isolation #150) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:46 am

Post by Slandaar »

Iz; both town and scum would not want to get the argument on Shiro wrong so there is nothing in it. The quantity argument is bad as clearly name mentions has nothing to do with how much someone talks about someone else and what Thor said does stand up to this. I literally showed this.

I see you managed to spend all this time posting a lovely huge wall instead of showing these scummier votes than Shiros though.
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Post Post #3713 (isolation #151) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:13 am

Post by Slandaar »

The incredibly short version: You never made it clear why you voted PV over Anen.
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Post Post #3716 (isolation #152) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:31 am

Post by Slandaar »

So, ALL of your scumreads are because you didn't like their votes on PV?

:]
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Post Post #3717 (isolation #153) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:33 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3715, Izariael wrote:She made it perfectly clear why she voted PV over Anen.

What was this reason then?
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Post Post #3720 (isolation #154) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:44 am

Post by Slandaar »

I worded that badly I knew it wasn't the sole reason, still, all your scumreads voted PV. It's quite an easy way to play - accuse those who voted the mislynch.

Thor's vote being scummy is because? I shall look into the others votes later.
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Post Post #3722 (isolation #155) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:47 am

Post by Slandaar »

2488 is not a reason to vote Anen over PV when he had PV as town too. Why did he vote Anen over PV?
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Post Post #3723 (isolation #156) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:47 am

Post by Slandaar »

Uh wrong way round you know what I mean.
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Post Post #3727 (isolation #157) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:18 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3725, Shiro wrote:Oh and I am saying this because a while ago u said the reason was how I worded it. And how it was made in a way to pass the responsibility to others. Something u did in a much bigger deegre by abstaining to vote.

I guess the reason changed though.

No, I just tried a different way of explaining it because clearly the other way was not understood. I would have voted Anen obviously if I needed to and as is evidenced I was around at deadline to vote if required.

Everything you have said you have said today not yesterday when the vote happened.

This is how things actually happened:

Shiro PV is town
Hrm Thor Why do you think PV wouldn't do this as scum?
I Iso'ed Anen a bunch now he is town.
Vote PV.

Why PV over Anen? no reason. No reason at all. It all goes back to passing the responsibility to Thor.
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Post Post #3729 (isolation #158) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:36 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3728, Shiro wrote:If I votes pere with no reason how can the reason be to pass responsibility to Thor ?

Passing responsibility is the actual reason - you threw the responsibility toward Thor and then voted PV. It isn't the reason you provided for voting PV as you didn't provide one.

They are not mutually exclusive.
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Post Post #3730 (isolation #159) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:38 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3728, Shiro wrote:Also I did say how and more than one person said they can see the progression. Muffin who is now confirmed town included.

I can see the progression too on your Anen read. I don't see how this matters though. The progression on your PV read was?
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Post Post #3731 (isolation #160) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:39 am

Post by Slandaar »

PV is town don't like the wagon -> Thor why would PV do X as scum? Thor replies -> Shiro votes PV.
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Post Post #3732 (isolation #161) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:41 am

Post by Slandaar »

Shiro votes PV not because of Thor's reply but because Anen is town. Doesn't make any sense.
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Post Post #3736 (isolation #162) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:55 am

Post by Slandaar »

The PV progression explanation did a good job of showing the issue.

Here lets do the progression side by side.

Anen -> Scum -> ISOed a bunch: town ------------------------------->
------------------------------------------------------------------------------>Anen is town so I will Vote PV
PV -> Town -> Thor why would PV do X as scum? -> Thor Replies ->

Was there a point to asking Thor the question? what is Shiro's response to Thor's reply? (there isn't one - responsibility is passed to Thor) This progression is wrong. I mean we are assuming PV is still town based on this lack of response and no mention of it so why Anen over PV? Anen being town is not a reason.
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Post Post #3815 (isolation #163) » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:54 pm

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3738, Thor665 wrote:I actually find that perfectly acceptable and normal Day 2 play. You don't?

I find it very coincidental and I do not like coincidences. He stated they are not the only reasons for having them as his scumreads while also saying they made the worst votes. Not one other person who didn't make a bad vote on Shiro (his POV) is there or in fact anyone who made a bad vote on Shiro (again his POV) is nowhere but his scumreads.
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Post Post #3816 (isolation #164) » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:03 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3742, davesaz wrote:The usual reason that town vote a wagon is needing to avoid a no-lynch. Because the situations where no-lynch helps town are slim to none. Town often vote a less scummy player in order to avoid a no-lynch. For this reason, I do not use "strength of read" as the determining factor in interpreting someone else's vote, especially early game.

Oh I see, thank you very much for your well written explanation :]
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Post Post #3817 (isolation #165) » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:04 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3744, davesaz wrote:Pedit: It is not unusual for town to avoid saying at the time that they are only voting to avoid a no-lynch. Precisely because the scum can latch onto that kind of statement to press a bogus case for a mislynch.

But if everyone knows town are doing this at deadline how could anyone possibly accuse someone of doing it as scummy and get any kind of traction let alone a mislynch off it?
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Post Post #3818 (isolation #166) » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:10 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3779, AxleGreaser wrote:On this occasion however, at least one alternate wagon, Anen, was town

This is a very good point actually.
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Post Post #3819 (isolation #167) » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:18 am

Post by Slandaar »

IZ's View of the game:
In post 2007, Aegor wrote:
Votecount 1.16


[7]
PeregrineV:
Egg
,
Thor665, Scripten
, davesaz,
The Fonz, Boonskiies,
T S O

[4]
Aneninen:
WBOCampfire1104, Muffin, TierShift, Garmr
[4]
Thor665:
goodmorning, Nero Cain, flubbernugget, Izariael
[1]
goodmorning:
Slandaar
[1]
Scripten:
PeregrineV
[1]
Slandaar:
Aneninen
[1]
T S O:
AxleGreaser
[1]
WBOCampire1104:
Grayfoxxxx


[1]
Not Voting:
hephaestus

Red = Scum. Blue also applies to all Red's.
Blue = suspicious vote on PV.

It's just not very believable.
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Post Post #3821 (isolation #168) » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:54 am

Post by Slandaar »

I might be mistaken but I do not remember you defending Peregrine yesterday from what you view as a wagon full of scum.
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Post Post #3822 (isolation #169) » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:55 am

Post by Slandaar »

And I am not implying anything about solving the game. It isn't natural the way your reads have developed into a block like that.
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Post Post #3826 (isolation #170) » Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:35 am

Post by Slandaar »

The characteristic we are talking about is people who voted PV with actual reasons :]
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Post Post #3827 (isolation #171) » Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:36 am

Post by Slandaar »

Which is why we ignore half the votes on the wagon and use a previous VC.
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Post Post #3828 (isolation #172) » Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:38 am

Post by Slandaar »

Why if I were scum would I try to get on a lynch on town which 100% is happening and I have defended them all game?

Clearly that was a joke.
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Post Post #3832 (isolation #173) » Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:54 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3829, Izariael wrote:
In post 3828, Slandaar wrote:Why if I were scum would I try to get on a lynch on town which 100% is happening and I have defended them all game?

Clearly that was a joke.

There is so much WIFOM in that joke that I can't dismiss it as one.

Seems backwards. Either I was joking as town or joking as scum so WIFOM can't dismiss?
In post 3830, Izariael wrote:
In post 3827, Slandaar wrote:Which is why we ignore half the votes on the wagon and use a previous VC.


That is not reflective of how *I* evaluated the votes, and therefore fails to adequately represent my views to do so.

The latter votes have minimal reasoning to none so there is very little assessment to be made on whether they were scummy or not. Basically what looks fake is; your scumreads are the people who voted PV with reasoning before deadline.
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Post Post #3835 (isolation #174) » Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:23 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3833, Izariael wrote:
Or you weren't joking. There lies the WIFOM.

Then respond to the point.
In post 3834, Izariael wrote:
In post 3832, Slandaar wrote:The latter votes have minimal reasoning to none so there is very little assessment to be made on whether they were scummy or not. Basically what looks fake is; your scumreads are the people who voted PV with reasoning before deadline.


And yet you're scumreading Shiro's vote, while saying that her vote is irrelevant to my observations of the Pere wagon. Clearly, the amount of reasoning attached to a vote does not determine whether a vote can be evaluated.

Yes.

In terms on looking at the votes I am saying as scum it is easy to scumread the people who put the most reasoning into their votes on the mislynch and ignore the other people who jumped on later. Shiro's vote complies with the latter. Looking at the people who posted reasoning we get the VC I posted obviously you might be able to argue a name onto it but the point still stands.
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Post Post #3956 (isolation #175) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:54 am

Post by Slandaar »

I have tried hard to push wagons thank you Shiro. Defending the leading wagon's who are town is a big part of moving votes onto the wagon you want.
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Post Post #4065 (isolation #176) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:52 am

Post by Slandaar »

Shiro are you saying the reason you voted PV is because you had passed responsibility to Thor?
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Post Post #4066 (isolation #177) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:02 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 4039, goodmorning wrote:Pere is fairly familiar with Thor, probably the most so of the players in this game. That means his existence was a potential threat. The longer he was left alive, the likelier he'd be to come up with a correct read, one that would be listened to.

:]

I have quite a bit of experience with Thor. Are you listening to me GM?
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Post Post #4067 (isolation #178) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:03 am

Post by Slandaar »

I have played with PV like 10 times maybe more. No-one listened to me about that. My meta read was absolute. That is the most nonsense I have read in a long time.
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Post Post #4068 (isolation #179) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:43 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3959, Thor665 wrote:@Slandaar - would you support a GM or Beast wagon and will you move your vote? If not, could you explain by specifically stating th ename, what player you expect to get to join the Garmr wagon due to your efforts of convincing them to move their vote?

We all know that we vote GM and it will get 4 votes like the Garmr wagon and stall. Beast will go but it's very compromiseish and chance of him being scum isn't great so I prefer not to today if he is still as useless tomorrow then yes.

Shiro will be convinced to join the Garmr wagon :] (I don't really have names)

When I get home I shall take the leadership role as this town obviously needs me to actually beat them into submission. I have not really been in the game the last few days due to stuff.
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Post Post #4091 (isolation #180) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:53 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 4073, Shiro wrote:No I am saying this is the reason you presented

That's right.

It is not the reason you presented though. The reason you presented is Anen is town. They can both co-exist.
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Post Post #4106 (isolation #181) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:34 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 4093, The Fonz wrote:I couldn't remember who had the meta read on PV, but I was BEGGING for whoever it was to explain it. Kind of how I also asked you to provide your own meta, and you didn't. :( (And then said you had).

I did both.
In post 1932, Slandaar wrote:PV is just less colourful as scum, just is, he has less of a presence, it's meta but it's the only way I can read PV because I used to for several games always think hes scum so I just ignore his reasoning mostly because I never agree with him.

That is how you read PV. Not that anyone is going to sheep it. When I said several I did mean several.

I posted this ages ago.
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Post Post #4107 (isolation #182) » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:40 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 4092, Thor665 wrote:@Slandaar - what's your read on Dave?

I mean I made it obvious in my reads list a while back I have him as very likely scum. I had been considering making a case on him because I haven't really brought attention to it but the fact is doing so is going to detract from the magnificent Josh/Garmr wagon.
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Post Post #4197 (isolation #183) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:02 am

Post by Slandaar »

Yeah.

You were.

Reinoe was town.

VOTE: Boon
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Post Post #4203 (isolation #184) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:09 am

Post by Slandaar »

Yes?

That is an important detail Boon.
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Post Post #4206 (isolation #185) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:10 am

Post by Slandaar »

Boon: 'I have seen someone do this before hammer them!' ... said person was town.
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Post Post #4211 (isolation #186) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:14 am

Post by Slandaar »

No.

The one with Bob/Elyse etc and were lynched D1. That is obviously what he is talking about.
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Post Post #4213 (isolation #187) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:16 am

Post by Slandaar »

Maybe I meant yes Reinoe. :]
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Post Post #4220 (isolation #188) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:21 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 4200, Thor665 wrote:Shouldn't that make Reinoe scum, not Boon?
What am I missing here?

No?

How would it make Reinoe scum?

I mean it is debatable if the reaction is the same. But Boon says it is. That is what is important because he is saying to hammer someone for a reaction he saw once from town.

...
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Post Post #4228 (isolation #189) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:36 am

Post by Slandaar »

Boon just got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Don't let him weasel out because he is a 'VI'
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Post Post #4230 (isolation #190) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:41 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 4222, Boonskiies wrote:I only vaguely remembered it anyways

I only vaguely remembered it guys but I decided to push the angle anyways!
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Post Post #4237 (isolation #191) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:46 am

Post by Slandaar »

Boonakins

:]
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Post Post #4239 (isolation #192) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:49 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 4232, Thor665 wrote:
@Slandaar - he's a claimed BP. Please let's just have a cop or a weak doc or a gunsmith or something check him first. I would *love* it if he's an actual BP town player and it's a laugh on scum who need to deal with him. Heck, at that point I'll sit around and rile at him until he becomes useful or replaces out. I'm not going to lynch him on a concept of 'cruddy play' on Day 2 with a PR claim sitting on him in a large.

So, lets say we massclaim later down the road near/at lylo. There is no cop or gunsmith or anything like that. We just decided not to lynch scum for however many days because there might be a cop etc who can investigate him?

Even if he was town. They don't even have to deal with him, they can just leave him and laugh as you waste a cop investigate on him etc.
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Post Post #4253 (isolation #193) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:07 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 4246, Boonskiies wrote:@Shiro - are you not fucking reading either? I thought Reinoe was scum in the game I referenced, and thought Thor was in the same position. Which would make Thor scum. I was wrong about Reinoe being scum there, so I unvoted. HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTANDING THIS?

Alright I will bite Boonsie. If you only vaguely remembered the incident then why didn't you check before pushing for a hammer?

It's not just the mistake it's the lack of thought shown into your read when someone is L-1. It looks like you didn't care and just wanted to push the lynch through. I do find it hard to imagine forgetting Reinoe is town when you yourself performed the gambit too...
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Post Post #4254 (isolation #194) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:08 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 4243, Shiro wrote:Slandar were u suspicious of him from before or just this?

Not before no.
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Post Post #4268 (isolation #195) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:27 am

Post by Slandaar »

Boon I am just going to say something I believe in and you respond how you see fit; People care more when they are their favored alignment.
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Post Post #4281 (isolation #196) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:38 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 4269, Boonskiies wrote:My favored alignment is scum. I have barely put any effort into this game.

Earlier in the day you seemed involved but that wasn't the point I was making. When you were town being wagoned you showed a lot less emotion or care while here... completely different.
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Post Post #4435 (isolation #197) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:55 pm

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In post 4365, goodmorning wrote:1-Shot JK is totally a Scum PR for when the Scum investigative finds a Town PR

Why did he use it n1 then?

Or are you saying he is lying about that?
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Post Post #4446 (isolation #198) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:46 pm

Post by Slandaar »

We are just going to let Boon get away skot free? Pressing for a hammer vote when he could only vaguely remember the situation he talked about showing a complete lack of care or interest in the game and then when he gets votes he blows up because now he does care?

OK guys!
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Post Post #4450 (isolation #199) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:59 pm

Post by Slandaar »

I need to go back a few pages but seriously what are you two doing?

Can we please stop messing about.

GM/Garmr/Dave/Boon.

Everyone just pick one and vote then be happy because you have made a good vote. If by tomorrow you are on the smallest wagon of the 4 then you move to one of the other 3. Next day to one of the 2. Then a lynch will be achieved by deadline and the lynch will be a good one.

Thank you all for your co-operation in these testing times.
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