NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[Boonskiies]

Yeaaaaah...

The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool. (A la As You Like It)

[TierShift]

I'm giving these tips so people reading will at least be interested and I really don't mind being a wagon.

Why the heck is this disclaimer in your post? It looks forced as shit.

[TierShift]

Look, thor.
You made the statement about there being many more anen mentions than pere mentions. Muffin tried to show there weren't. You just said he was doing it wrong and you said he was twisting your words. You also suggested there were more anen posts than muffin showed due to pronouns.

Instead, you could just show that there were more anen mentions than pere mentions.

But now I did a shiro ISO and found that there is about 1 post more on anen (than on pere), in which she calls him scum. In the following post already, she says she was probably wrong. Your previous suggestion that there were more posts because of pronouns is simply wrong.

I don't understand why you're just telling other people that they're wrong when they're trying to understand your arguments, instead of explaining/correcting them? And when your basis is wrong, why do you keep insisting other people are to blame?

[Izariael]

And when your basis is wrong, why do you keep insisting other people are to blame?

Because Thor wins his arguments/debates by cramming his opinions down other people's throats, regardless of their validity, until the opposition loses motivation to continue the discussion.

Then he scumreads them by saying that they were not pushing their arguments at all or that they must have been arguing something they didn't believe if they would drop it so readily.

[AxleGreaser]

Instead, you could just show that there were more anen mentions than pere mentions.

and if true Thors actually wrong about something... when was the last time you saw him back down?

and if hes wrong would it make him scum.
and if hes just reluctant would it make him scum.

and basically please explain why you are scum reading him. (he has claimed he can fool me all of the time)

(please note I dont actually know who is right out of Thor and Muffin's tiff, and I am not sure I care..)

either that or you could vote for the forced as shit scummy guy? (he says he wont mind)

[AxleGreaser]

Because Thor wins his arguments/debates by cramming his opinions down other people's throats, regardless of their validity, until the opposition loses motivation to continue the discussion.

Then he scumreads them by saying that they were not pushing their arguments at all or that they must have been arguing something they didn't believe if they would drop it so readily.

and does he do that as both town and scum? (because I am sure he does it as town.)

(although he does not always call them scummy, especially if they are not)

[Izariael]

(although he does not always call them scummy, especially if they are not)

Ah yes, you're right. I forgot that he could also call them terrible town or bad town.

[TierShift]

I've never played with thor before. But you're saying his town MO is discrediting people who are right?

[Shiro]

Okay, look, it is OBVIOUS that I was talking about the amount of the relative conversation about each person. i literally said as much.

Soo you are saying the fact that I had more relative conversations about Anen(specificaly with Axl) that made me view him in a better light thus conclude that Pere is the better wagon at the time scummy.....

How?

[Slandaar]

Thor

I got this.

[Slandaar]

Pere is honestly the same but less regard. He is only off when talking with Thor but most people that argued with thor ended up seeming off after it is that a thing ? I did notice he has a knack for winning argument. The fact that most people on pere wagoon have little reason of their own and just follow thor is off by itself . Especially earlier. Liek using Thor abbility to push well to further a lynch. He pretyt much hold his own when talking to others about the case.

I guess best wagon is Anen. His posts seem off and coming right out of a game that he was town(even if I was maf) his post don't have the same town vibe they had there. I don't really know how to explain this tbh. Has GM noted anything similar to that ? If I recall Tier has and he was in the same game I speak of.

Mentions Pere and Ane equallyish.

Hmmm first of the pigeon jokes felt off I had hard time believing that the person that made a complicated impssible to see crypto message acted that way.

He had many posts that made little sense but screamed screamed town. I don't really see that here either

His approach to being top counterwagon want as defensive.

I get the feeling he is more laid back here but that might be cause of his TSO interaction which would have made most people go fuck it.

Tier has a point though half a newbie game isn't sufficient meta to cross check.

That is on top of my head. Will read his and Pere ISOs when I get home to try and make a better conclusion .

Talks about Anen mostly brief mention of PV

Thor can I ask you something ? I think I understand your reason behind Pere wagoon but why wouldnt scum pere back off when he had the chance ? I mean he had a few chances biggest being the one where it was pointed that there was a misundersating with what multball meant. Why wouldn't he step away and spare himself all this trouble ? He was clearly losing the argument anyway.

Asks about PV

Ok after reading Anen ISO a few times I don't see him as scummy as I initialy though maybe TSO constant "He is scum" rubbed on me as I was reading through everything in one go.

Axl

1. Well when pressured and your response is pooping it did make me raise an eyebrow but then again he was pressured with pretty much nothing. Soo..

2. Well for one when in L-1 he stopped caring about not getting lynched and tried to show what should be looked at if he is lynched.

3. No which is why I said it is probably because of TSO action.

4. Yes actually. I mean why respond defensivly to empty stuff ?

5. Well as I mentioned a bit above after re reading it like 2 times I am left with a better impression. *Sigh*

Also not sure if that what you asked but:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=58764
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=58767


Eh I dunno I am not going ot vote for Thor wagoon cause it makes absolutly no sense, and now after the re reads I feel relucant to vote for Anen. He does seem like a nicely placed mislynch. God damn it...Dx

@Dave if that makes any diifference back in the game she was IC with me everyone did say that her day 1 play is evassive and vague as town. Litteraly everyone that knew her said so. It drove a person mad xD

Lots of thoughts about Anen

VOTE:PERE

I thought Anen was best but eh now I dont want it and Thor is still a really horrible wagon imo so yea

Votes PV

So, we can see way more discussion about Ane than PV.

[Slandaar]

I think that actually explains why I dislike 2462 so much. Anen get's all these thoughts about him and PV gets a 'Thor wouldn't PV do x as scum??'

[Shiro]

I think that actually explains why I dislike 2462 so much. Anen get's all these thoughts about him and PV gets a 'Thor wouldn't PV do x as scum??'

Okay, look, it is OBVIOUS that I was talking about the amount of the relative conversation about each person. i literally said as much.

Soo you are saying the fact that I had more relative conversations about Anen(specificaly with Axl) that made me view him in a better light thus conclude that Pere is the better wagon at the time scummy.....

How?

What I just posted to Thor.

[Slandaar]

PV was the leading wagon, whom you voted while managing to take no responsibility with your vote with the progression you took.

[Izariael]

PV was the leading wagon, whom you voted while managing to take no responsibility with your vote with the progression you took.

I don't follow... Shiro isn't denying that she voted PV? What kind of responsibility

should

she be putting on her vote? How are others taking responsibility for their votes in ways that she is not?

[AxleGreaser]

So, we can see way more discussion about Ane than PV.

I lost track...
does that mean you just showed something Thor said was right? (BTW I probably don't care but curious as I lost track)
(when viewed with certain interpretation of the words)(dunno if that caveat is required or not)

Was it alignment indicative?

How?

Time to Vote Garmr? because he is scummy, and "forced as shit"

[Slandaar]

If you have two wagons you would expect someone who is town to look at them both equally. The issue is Shiro has focused on the smaller wagon more than the larger wagon and when he was townreading both voted the larger wagon with no real reason other than 'the other wagon is town'.

[AxleGreaser]

If you want to make this argument

PV was the leading wagon, whom you voted while managing to take no responsibility with your vote with the progression you took.

this post and the language in it

VOTE:PERE

I thought Anen was best but eh now I dont want it and Thor is still a really horrible wagon imo so yea

Support you.

or they are a newb forced into to making a lynch decision shortly after starting the game on great big mess of an argument.
True Shiro tried to bail out on the easier Anen vote.

So I pushed. Shiro posted lots of words in answer to questions about the first vote.

True today Shiro is failing to be focussed on finding scum and keeps coming back to "why are you voting Shiro..."
@Shiro, doing that is pointless, how will you ever work out who you want to vote, the most important thing you do today?

The argument about numbers of references is utter filler BS.
You not only have to really count how much attention was paid to each but why it happened.

I asked Shiro questions about Anen. Shiro replied.

[Izariael]

Yeaaaaah...

The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool. (A la As You Like It)

Why is Shiro's vote any scummier than the others? I think there were several votes on there that were far scummier than a replacement player voting into a deadline lynch.

[Izariael]

Should she have instead separated herself from the major wagons and voted for someone else entirely in a manner that would have no impact on the final result beyond pushing us closer to no-lynch?

Pedit: why the schnozz did it quote boons in my last post. That was not the intended quote.

[TierShift]

Slandaar's focus on proving thor's factual basis right is so wrong

[AxleGreaser]

If you have two wagons you would expect someone who is town to look at them both equally.

our mind meld (or the one i felt is broken.)
I absolutely do not expect that. i expect them to take as much time as is required to find out about each.
With two wagons and need to lynch... I might actually choose to find out about the easier wagon and see if I could become so sure on it the other became the default lynch.

In 2420 Shiro indicated an initial preference for the Anen
I asked questions 2435
I asked even more questions at 2440
about there having got Shiro talking i let go ...

The issue is Shiro has focused on the smaller wagon more than the larger wagon and when he was townreading both voted the larger wagon with no real reason other than 'the other wagon is town'.

also as they both flipped town...
PoE is thing?

I am not really seeing what is being discussed here.

Is it that Shiro caved to what you perceive as pressure? What seemed popular? (got the least argument?)

[AxleGreaser]

PV was the leading wagon, whom you voted while managing to take no responsibility with your vote with the progression you took.

I don't follow... Shiro isn't denying that she voted PV? What kind of responsibility

should

she be putting on her vote? How are others taking responsibility for their votes in ways that she is not?

This

VOTE:PERE

I thought Anen was best but eh now I dont want it and Thor is still a really horrible wagon imo so yea

sounds "mealy mouthed"

and if Shiro was experienced who knew the lingo... then as town or scum

Shiro would have used PoE in an assertive forthright sentence that sounded just fine.

It is a mole hill...

Its not a case

neither is the argument around it, as near as I can tell.

[AxleGreaser]

Slandaar's focus on proving thor's factual basis right is so wrong

I agree.

I've never played with thor before. But you're saying his town MO is discrediting people who are right?

I also dont like discredit being in this, when it was not said. (as far as i saw)

I am funny like that.

[AxleGreaser]

Slandaar's focus on proving thor's factual basis right is so wrong

so was you arguing about it here?

Look, thor.
You made the statement about there being many more anen mentions than pere mentions. Muffin tried to show there weren't. You just said he was doing it wrong and you said he was twisting your words. You also suggested there were more anen posts than muffin showed due to pronouns.

Instead, you could just show that there were more anen mentions than pere mentions.

But now I did a shiro ISO and found that there is about 1 post more on anen (than on pere), in which she calls him scum. In the following post already, she says she was probably wrong. Your previous suggestion that there were more posts because of pronouns is simply wrong.

I don't understand why you're just telling other people that they're wrong when they're trying to understand your arguments, instead of explaining/correcting them? And when your basis is wrong, why do you keep insisting other people are to blame?