NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #3350 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:36 am

Post by Boonskiies »

In post 3341, Izariael wrote:I'm still not sure that I buy Boon's claim. I really think we're dealing with multiball/SK setup, which makes bulletproof scum more probable, imo. I don't trust the claim but it does make sense with a lot of his behavior.



I'm mislynch bait, and there to cause confusion for mafia.
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Post Post #3351 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:52 am

Post by Slandaar »

Hello IZ????
In post 3301, Slandaar wrote:
In post 3293, Izariael wrote:
Why is Shiro's vote any scummier than the others? I think there were several votes on there that were far scummier than a replacement player voting into a deadline lynch.

If you show me which votes you find scummy I will explain.

I would be interested to see that regardless.
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Post Post #3352 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:53 am

Post by Boonskiies »

In post 3346, Izariael wrote:
In post 3343, Shiro wrote:@Iz whose vote do u think is the most suspicious ?



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Post Post #3353 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:54 am

Post by Boonskiies »

That post was an accident. Disregard.
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Post Post #3354 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:55 am

Post by goodmorning »

In post 3234, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3230, goodmorning wrote:@Thor: If you weren't talking about the number of times they were discussed and you weren't talking about the quality of Shiro's discussion of them then what the hell were you talking about?

Okay, look, it is OBVIOUS that I was talking about the amount of the relative conversation about each person. i literally said as much.
That said, what Muffin did was to count the number of times a given name showed up. That doesn't take into account pronouns, and it *certainly* doesn't take into account the amount of time spent talking about either one.
Then he acted like ti did.

So now pronouns also count or? Does that mean you'd be cool with counting names+pronouns and calling that the answer?

WHAT DO YOU THINK I MEANT?
And more importantly, do you think Muffin's approach remotely resembles sanity in asking me about it?

Looking at those posts, there doesn't seem to be a significant amount more on either player. So I have no idea what you meant, and Muffin questioning you makes quite a bit of sense.
Tier said it a lot better than me in . And Izariael on p134.

In post 3230, goodmorning wrote: And why are you so reluctant to tell us who you mixed Shiro up with? These are the problems Muffin has with you and I don't see why it is so apparently difficult for you to understand that.

I'm reluctant because;

1. I don't know off the top of my head and would need to do research.
2. I see no value in even having that info.

That's really it.
If someone could explain the value to me to justify the work I'd probably kvetch but would provide the answer. But...I really don't even get the issue.

You found things this player was doing to be worthy of votes. If I scumread someone and find that it's someone else's posts I'm scumreading then I damned sure am going to figure out who it is.
The value of that info for everyone else is that it helps us confirm whether you are or are not full of shit.
And Shiro said similar in .

@Axle
: You're telling me you read Thor as Town because he says you can't read him?
I literally have lost all of my can.

In post 3267, Garmr wrote:also everyone you voted except me and gm were easy vote tso(through town easy),scriptian,pere,boonskies

Also the fact you said boon was a easy vote and that was the wagon you were just on -shakes head-

I'm going to point out that given the number of times Thor's called me a liar at this point, it wouldn't necessarily be hard to run me up either.

In post 3278, Izariael wrote:
In post 3277, TierShift wrote:And when your basis is wrong, why do you keep insisting other people are to blame?

Because Thor wins his arguments/debates by cramming his opinions down other people's throats, regardless of their validity, until the opposition loses motivation to continue the discussion.

I call this the Bill O'Reilly, especially if it involves interrupting people and shouting them down.

Protip: If two people are debating a point and only one is shouting, the shouting one is either losing or insanely frustrated. Either way they're probably overmatched, but the words they're saying will tell you which is the actual situation.

In post 3295, TierShift wrote:Slandaar's focus on proving thor's factual basis right is so wrong

ilu tier

In post 3305, Slandaar wrote:The objective of playing a game is really to have fun. I mean win is also there and ideally do both but if it's not fun what are you playing for?

And underneath all the disagreements, Slandaar and myself finally find some common ground.

Thor wrote:Also, if you note, everything he said about Pere was "not scum" and then he voted him. I wonder why Thor would ever take that as uncool.

If this was how you'd pushed it then it wouldn't have been a problem.
I like that you only just now have come up with this point since only Slandaar believes your relative mentions case.
Oh, and now it's down to number of words?
I have a cat.
I possess an odoriferous, chubby, bi-polar calico of the feline sort.
Certainly the latter is more descriptive, but description =/= explanation. And anyway if that was what you meant originally then why not have said it? You made an unsupported statement and, rather than respond honestly to those who ask, have been incredibly evasive.

I really haven't gotten that many people who have said they townread Thor:

Slandaar, who made a reasonable point but with whom I disagree
Fonz, whose reasons I decimated approximately a lot and who should post more
Axle, whose reasons I really really don't understand.

Does anyone other than those 3 townread Thor?
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Post Post #3355 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:19 am

Post by TierShift »

getrekt slandaar thor scumteam
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Post Post #3356 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:21 am

Post by Slandaar »

I am very sure Thor is town. I feel like he tried so hard yesterday and fell flat with the PV flip so came into today with a more relaxed attitude and voted Shiro which was fine. He then says something about Shiro not doing anything for ages which was wrong, sure, but whatever I don't see why Thortown is more likely to check this than Thorscum as both would want to get things right for different reasons. Then we have the quantity argument which looked fine to me, Axle has shown me the way, but no-one else seems to actually understand it or the reason it is actually wrong.

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Scum

Axle; I looked through things, I don't really see much in your case. If you want me to explain specific point(s) which you think are particularly good let me know I can't be bothered going through the whole thing though.
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Post Post #3357 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:25 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2660, Shiro wrote:I guess you could connect Anen death to Iz but it is a thin line that had more cons that pros

Does someone actually think this isn't scum?
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Post Post #3358 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:36 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

What about it is scummy exactly?
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Post Post #3359 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:57 am

Post by Slandaar »

Hey Flubber. You could vote that townie over there but I don't think you should.
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Post Post #3360 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:14 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

VOTE: thor
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Post Post #3361 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:14 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

Like that?
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Post Post #3362 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:20 am

Post by reinoe »

In post 2837, Slandaar wrote:If you want a serious response: TSO is town because I liked a couple of his points on Anen even if they were shot down they are town arguments. Town arguments are quite wild and unique a lot of the time. Scum tend to use safe arguments.

Lets take GM her argument on Thor is tone. (I would use Shiro but ha you have to wait) You can't accuse her for her argument it's so safe. And that is her only argument. Then take this scumslip look how safe she is. She is trying to say she wanted input on it as she was unsure. Town just accuse of a scumslip, kind of what Boon is doing with his posting.
GM has taken the safe 'I better not push this without everyone's approval' stance.

Slandaar, the stuff in big bold red text doesn't make sense to me...As exemplified by GM's voting patterns, I don't see here trying to wait for anyone's approval before making a case and voting. "Tone" may not be something you agree with but if it's something that she's faking, couldn't she fake that kind of accusation on literally anyone? But furthermore why would she use it as an excuse to be the first person on a wagon when you say she wants everyone's approval? That doesn't make sense? Wanting everyone's approval and trying to start a wagon are opposite things.

In post 951, Aegor wrote:
Votecount 1.8


:right: [7]
PeregrineV:
Egg, Thor665, Muffin, Aneninen, Scripten, davesaz, Tiershift

[1]--->
Thor:
goodmorning <---


It's just that the vote counts don't correspond with your statement about GM that I can see. I wholeheartedly admit that I may have missed some things but can you show me the post or posts where it appears that Goodmorning is waiting for consensus? It looks more like she sees something and has been pushing it for two days, and wants other players to see that thing.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

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Post Post #3363 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:52 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3345, Izariael wrote:
In post 3344, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3340, Izariael wrote:Would any other vote from her have still been scummy? Because it seems like this attention on her vote is solely because it was on the lynch wagon. And I think it's the wrong vote to be focusing on, frankly.

No, a number of other votes would not have been as scummy.

Oh? Such as?

Well, how about saying 'I think this person is scum and voting them' as a wild and wooly idea.

In post 3354, goodmorning wrote:So now pronouns also count or? Does that mean you'd be cool with counting names+pronouns and calling that the answer?

:neutral:
What are you even arguing with me here about?

In post 3354, goodmorning wrote:Looking at those posts, there doesn't seem to be a significant amount more on either player.

Agreed - if you just look at the posts and don't read them, which is why I expressed issue with Muffin's method.
I did a version showing the actual conversation - and breaking it down Shiro talked about Anen roughly three times more than Pere, and had (apparently) no different read on him, so unvoted him and voted Pere.

So...?
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Post Post #3364 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:05 am

Post by Slandaar »

Reinoe: that was regarding the IZ slip not the case on Thor.
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Post Post #3365 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:11 am

Post by reinoe »

In post 3364, Slandaar wrote:Reinoe: that was regarding the IZ slip not the case on Thor.

So you think GM is softpushing Iza?
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

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Post Post #3366 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 am

Post by T S O »

Replace out.

I'm really sorry, Aegor, but school + sport means I barely get Mafia time, and this game is just moving too fast for me to keep up with.

I'm very sorry, guys, this is the first time in a while I've done this.

go town
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Post Post #3367 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:14 am

Post by Nero Cain »

FUCK YES!
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #3368 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:18 am

Post by T S O »

oh just shut up you sad cunt
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #3369 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:28 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 3146, TierShift wrote:
In post 3116, Nero Cain wrote:but Muffin is prob scum too. Like that whole asking Muffin for his opinion on me 'cause he wanted to understand why we had different opinions on Boons looked really forced and manufactured.

+

neither of them are following up at all.

What are you talking about here? Can you give me post numbers?

Well, in 2990 Flubber asks for opinions on me. At first I thought this a general call out and just asking everyone for their option of but according to him he was just asking Muffin but its not like that really makes it any better 'cause why would you give a shit about others opinions unless you think a slot is scum or you are doubting your read? But no, he continued to call me town so I really really don't understand why he wants an opinion on me. This aslso came across as slightly OMGUSy 'cause here I am starting to doubt Flubber as town and his next post is asking for opinions on me wich again, I don't understand why he'd want opinions on his town read.

Then in 2998 he claims that his reason for asking an opinion on me is 'cause he was interested in why Muffin and I had different reads on Boons. Well ok....but what does that have to do with anything? Does he secretly think that I'm scummy for not wanting a Boons lynch today? Maybe I missed it but why didn't he ask why Muffin was voting Boons, if Muffin had not already claimed why.

So to me it looked like a throwaway argument meant to look like he was doing something but wasn't actually doing anything. So yeah, I thought this was some forced scumbuddy interaction.

Can you explain to me what you think flubber was trying to accomplish here?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #3370 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:41 pm

Post by goodmorning »

@Nero: hey, what was your Thor read again?
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Post Post #3371 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:45 pm

Post by The Fonz »

I have tomorrow off. I will either get caught up or replace out, because I'm not meeting my own standards for pulling my weight as part of the town this game day.
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Post Post #3372 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:37 pm

Post by Izariael »

In post 3351, Slandaar wrote:Hello IZ????
In post 3301, Slandaar wrote:
In post 3293, Izariael wrote:
Why is Shiro's vote any scummier than the others? I think there were several votes on there that were far scummier than a replacement player voting into a deadline lynch.

If you show me which votes you find scummy I will explain.

I would be interested to see that regardless.


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Post Post #3373 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:42 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 3370, goodmorning wrote:@Nero: hey, what was your Thor read again?

I'd pl this slot. His case on PV yesterday was all sorts of horrible. At one point he said I was playing horrible and the only way town can play horrible is if thier reads are wrong so I asked him to explain why my scumreads were wrong. He didn't do this and I didn't like that. Not really a big fan of lynching Shiro so I disliked his vote. Fonz reasons for town reading Thor are like really bad and if Fonz is scum then that sort of makes me think Thor isn't on his team but my gut just doesn't go "oh oh, no way this is town." *shrugz* I AM agreeing with you that singular scum hunting is scummy/bad town play but like I said, that's going to come from him regardless of alignment me thinks.

What is your read on flubber and why?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #3374 (ISO) » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:49 pm

Post by Izariael »

In post 3357, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2660, Shiro wrote:I guess you could connect Anen death to Iz but it is a thin line that had more cons that pros

Does someone actually think this isn't scum?

Uh... yeah. Me. Boon tried to pull a ridiculous case out his ass to pin guilt on me for Anen's death. Shiro, rather than blindly sheeping, analyzed the events that transpired and said that while it *is* possible in theory, it is likely not the case. I felt it was a far townier approach than Boon's tunnel-vision view of the events. Especially when Boon agreed with me that it was multiball/SK and not a vigi kill last night.
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