NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #3575 (ISO) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:29 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 3541, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3518, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3383, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3373, Nero Cain wrote:I'd pl this slot. His case on PV yesterday was all sorts of horrible.


@Nero

This looks rather a lot like you are claiming scum. Are you claiming scum?

You say today on D2, "His(Thors) case on PV yesterday was all sorts of horrible."

Please show me where on D1 you pointed out that all sorts of horrible?

I dont remember you doing that, and i just I looked and i didnt see you do that.

If it was all sorts of horrible, where were you ?

Well, since we are ignoring the fact that I didn't vote PV which should tell you that I didn't like the PV case....

here I state that Thors PV case doesn't sway me.


Ok now you claim it was all kinds of "horrible"

yesterday you described it as merely
In post 1295, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1268, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1258, Nero Cain wrote:your case on PV is that:
he has bad reads
you feel he lied to you
and he thought you were scummy for bringing up MB?

My case is more eloquent, but, yes, you have functionally simplified it down - though I think the third and the first point are the same point - as the only read I cited as bad enough to be scummy is the read involving multiball, and I have no other scumtell associated with the multiball point other than inability to defend his belief in it being scummy. I also would note the lie is one I said he directed at town in general, not me in particular, though I will agree I was amongst those he lied to.

ok well...
TBH that case doesn't sway me but ok
, lets say that I'm wrong and PV is scum. Who are the non PV scum in this game?


Your claim today about that case in no way matches the views you expressed yesterday.
You are making stuff up to suit your needs.

If it was all sorts of horrible, where were you ?

WOAH! I did NOT see that coming. :igmeou:

You are once again using semantics to push a "contradiction". I didn't vote PV, I told Thor straight up that his case didn't sway me. So I didn't use the word "horrible" yesterday, it is functionally the same thing. This is now the second time that you've tried to push something like this. At least its bad town play but to steal a phrase from IZ "there's scum motivation in that."
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #3576 (ISO) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:46 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3575, Nero Cain wrote:WOAH! I did NOT see that coming. :igmeou:

You are once again using semantics to push a "contradiction". I didn't vote PV, I told Thor straight up that his case didn't sway me. So I didn't use the word "horrible" yesterday, it is functionally the same thing. This is now the second time that you've tried to push something like this. At least its bad town play but to steal a phrase from IZ "there's scum motivation in that."



I dont interpret it that way, and you didnt use it that way.

Claiming Thors case yesterday was all sorts of horrible was i thought clearly you claiming it was so "all kinds of horrible" that you now read Thor as scummy or it.
Indeed that is exactly what you said:
In post 3373, Nero Cain wrote:I'd pl this slot. His case on PV yesterday was all sorts of horrible.


So no I am not playing semantic games with the word horrible.

Today you claim Thors case yesterday was so XXXXXX, that you would PL him for it.

yesterday you merely said it didn't sway you.

That is a clear change in position, and a significant reinterpretation of the facts.

It is especially not functionally the same thing at all.
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Post Post #3577 (ISO) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:53 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

ok, show me the post where I town read Thor.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #3578 (ISO) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:54 pm

Post by beastcharizard »

Life took over. Can someone give me a quick update on the Thor case?
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Post Post #3579 (ISO) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:00 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 3576, AxleGreaser wrote:yesterday you merely said it didn't sway you.

I was also voting him :roll:
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #3580 (ISO) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:29 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3577, Nero Cain wrote:ok, show me the post where I town read Thor.


I never said that you town read Thor, so why should I show you such a thing. (now who is playing word games to shift ground)

What I said was that you today claiming
Thors case on pereV was so horrible that today you would PL him for it

In post 3373, Nero Cain wrote:I'd pl this slot. His case on PV yesterday was all sorts of horrible.


that is not consistent with you merely describing it as a case that did not sway you yesterday.

Yes you were voting him.
Please show where you said it was becuase the case was so much all kinds of horrible that he was even approaching PL lynchable.

In I already asked you to show me such post, and what you showed me was some weak post saying... you found Thors case did not sway you.

Your position has changed greatly. yet in you deny that change and accuse me of being scummy for even asking you about it.

You are being rather defensive. Why?
I want to know when your read changed and why. You claim it hasn't.
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Post Post #3581 (ISO) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:32 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3579, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3576, AxleGreaser wrote:yesterday you merely said it didn't sway you.

I was also voting him :roll:


and when I asked at you didnt think that important enough to mention. :roll:

I too had to decide between voting PereV and Thor that i voted PereV in the end in no way implies his play was anywhere near scummy enough to be a PL.
It was a least bad lynch vote, and my words and reasons reflected that.

Your D1 words at no point reflect that you now claim Thors case was so bad that it is now PL material. Why not?
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Post Post #3582 (ISO) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:34 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3581, AxleGreaser wrote:and when I asked at you didnt think that(voting Thor) important enough to mention.

in your reply at
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Post Post #3583 (ISO) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:52 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3578, beastcharizard wrote:Life took over. Can someone give me a quick update on the Thor case?


Well so far my recent posting has found GM and Nero to be bad or scum for their reasoning on the case.
(that is yet to totally solidify)

I have, not found an viable/plausible actual case yet.

There were things I disagreed with about Thors push on Shiro, (but I didn't notice anyone raise my objections)
The objections I saw were lame ducks(not alignment indicative of Shiro). (counting references etcetera)
AND

I thought giving Shiro a bit of push was a fine idea. I even thought it was fine idea to push it with a touch of BS as that gives Shiro the maximum chance to defend, that is if Shiro really knew why Shiro voted PereV for towny reasons.

I am still not sure of my read on Shiro, so some interaction under pressure was a
good thing
tm

The end.

You could just vote for one of the actually scummy guys, instead.
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Post Post #3584 (ISO) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:53 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3578, beastcharizard wrote:Life took over. Can someone give me a quick update on the Thor case?


Also if you say what you know so far that would make it easier.
Also it is a chance for you to look townier if you are.
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Post Post #3585 (ISO) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:38 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3579, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3576, AxleGreaser wrote:yesterday you merely said it didn't sway you.

I was also voting him :roll:

and what exactly did your vote ion himD1 signify
In post 1202, Nero Cain wrote:TBF, I think Thor is just extremely argumentative.
My vote on him was more me being goofy than anything
but I guess him not explaining his town read on me is rather silly.


So let me get this straight....
you are goofy and vote people who are making D1 cases so horribly bad that on D2 they are PL material

:roll: :roll:

Scummy ground shifting Bullshit
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Post Post #3586 (ISO) » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:33 pm

Post by Shiro »

In post 3578, beastcharizard wrote:Life took over. Can someone give me a quick update on the Thor case?


My suggestion ? Look at the garmr case and vote him.

The case on thor isn't that good.
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Post Post #3587 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:45 am

Post by Slandaar »

I fell behind a bit in terms of responding to stuff but I have read everything. Getting bogged down.

Let's lynch Garmr and move on guys. I don't even care about the read thing on Thor. He was being very survivalistic in terms of OMGUS, which is completely fine from town, no problems I omgus a lot and am very successful in catching scum doing so. The point is though that when you are town with this mentality you absolutely are not happy to be a wagon. This means when Garmr said he is OK with being the wagon he was being completely fake and trying to look town as an act. (This is completely Axle's point)
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Post Post #3588 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:00 am

Post by Slandaar »

Izariael you have not shown me which of the votes on PV were scummier than Shiro's. I do want to see them and I assume you want me to explain why I think they are not as scummy?
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Post Post #3589 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:13 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 3365, reinoe wrote:
In post 3364, Slandaar wrote:Reinoe: that was regarding the IZ slip not the case on Thor.

So you think GM is softpushing Iza?

Not really.

What happened in a summary (wanted to do quotes but eh you can check this is factual enough)

Boon: then there is the IZ slip but will let GM explain
IZ explains slip
Sland: That is no slip. GM I hear you are the instigator of this accusation?
GM: What? I did not accuse him of anything I wanted a discussion!
Sland: Well OK I didn't see exactly what you said I didn't see the QT.

Then I made the argument you quoted which is GM basically wanting to discuss instead of accuse which is very very safe, I find townies just accuse people and let them explain not 'look I find this suspicious what do you guys think' (corrected by GM later to 'I find this suspicious lets have a talk IZ')

I like the argument and this is the answer to your question... but continuing because I wanted to show this next bit anyways;

GM: Huh? I only wanted to talk to IZ not everyone else I don't want your opinion!!
Sland: I find this very sly GM. (Surely if you want a discussion you welcome all input not just the accused's)
GM: I want to discuss with IZ only!!!
GM: I find you saying you didn't see what I said in the QT sly!
Sland: Well I didn't see what is in your QT.
GM: This is mildly contradictory giving your opinion on the slip which you didn't see while also saying you didn't see my accusation.
Sland: Uh, well the slip was well written out in the thread, the 'accusation or whatever' I never saw I don't see the issue.
Sland: Did you not find my input useful? I mean IZ already has admitted to doing what you accused him of so what is there to discuss?
GM: I WONT TALK ABOUT THIS NOW.

Something like that anyways, might be slightly out of order but that is the gist. GM is scum.
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Post Post #3590 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:19 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2948, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2935, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2852, goodmorning wrote:I'm not interested in anyone else's opinion on what may or may not have been a slip. I am interested in clarifying Izariael's possible slip with Izariael only.

IZ's stance is he did exactly what you accused him of he thinks it is bad to assume scum in the hoods but did in said instance. He made this obvious days ago. I assume you are saying it is a slip?

I'm not saying anything about it at present.

See, Why is she not interested in my opinion on the subject? I felt my input was very very good. It doesn't make any sense. Have they been discussing the slip? no, Iz admitted to doing what GM said and nothing has happened since.
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Post Post #3591 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:20 am

Post by Slandaar »

Which is very flimsy because either my input influenced her in which case she is interested in other's opinions OR she should be accusing Iz of a slip because he admitted to doing what she thinks is a slip and he failed to explain it away.

She is doing neither.
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Post Post #3592 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:09 am

Post by goodmorning »

In post 3578, beastcharizard wrote:Life took over. Can someone give me a quick update on the Thor case?

See the main points in .

In post 3590, Slandaar wrote:See, Why is she not interested in my opinion on the subject? I felt my input was very very good. It doesn't make any sense. Have they been discussing the slip? no, Iz admitted to doing what GM said and nothing has happened since.

You weren't there. You didn't see it. It's between us two and we have discussed it to a conclusion. I literally could not care less what you think about the situation, given the above. Except there's one possibility for me caring less, and that would be if I scumread you too, which - oh wait. I DO.

Stop trying to distract from the Thor lynch.

In post 3591, Slandaar wrote:she should be accusing Iz of a slip because he admitted to doing what she thinks is a slip and he failed to explain it away.

I don't know what's going on in YOUR version of the thread, but 1. did he really fail? and 2. you think if someone is good at explaining things away that excuses scumslips from them or something?
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Post Post #3593 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:22 am

Post by Slandaar »

Do you, GM, think Iz slipped or not? (yes or no answer only please) Then: Why do you think this?
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Post Post #3594 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:27 am

Post by goodmorning »

In post 3593, Slandaar wrote:Do you, GM, think Iz slipped or not? (yes or no answer only please) Then: Why do you think this?

It's a little more complicated than a yes or no answer, so I'm afraid I thusly cannot answer.
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Post Post #3595 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:29 am

Post by Slandaar »

What is complicating this decision?
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Post Post #3596 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:31 am

Post by Slandaar »

You think Thor is scum so it's not that 'Thor would have to be scum and I think he's town'. Where is the complicated issue here? either you think it is or you think it isn't.
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Post Post #3597 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:37 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3572, Flubbernugget wrote:
in the context of which you brought them up

What is the context?
Can you give a rough example of how you'd like this question answered?
Because currently all I'm getting as the question is 'why are you offering reads?' to which my reply is "because that's how the game is played...what are you smoking?".

In post 3574, AxleGreaser wrote: and BTW nope GM never did dig out the
In post 1648, goodmorning wrote:but I'll go back through tomorrow and pull some quotes for him while I'm doing the Fonz thing for Thor.

:lol:
GM should definitely get angry at me next time I call her useless then.

In post 3592, goodmorning wrote:Stop trying to distract from the Thor lynch.

Wow, the Thor *lynch*? Wooosh, GM, aren't we going with wishful thinking.
In case you didn't notice, the Thor *wagon* (much less the lynch) is dead in the water now. People are starting to notice the reasoning is slim to none (or slim to dumb - hot'cha!) and others are starting to establish that they want to hear and understand the case before voting it, so the wave of derp and scum voters is already over.

If you want the wagon (or lynch :lol: ) to keep going...well, now is the time to pick it up on your shoulders and run with it for a while.
Can you do that with this wagon?
I'm here - and I'm relatively embracing of the evidence against me, I've certainly admitted to some of it (albeit while questioning how it's even scummy in the first place) so you've got a reasonable base to work from. All you have to do is explain how what I did is scummy and talk to some people to convince them you're right.
I actually do not believe you're capable of this, so doing it would be mud in my eye - so you have extra incentive ;)

But - hint: just sitting back and going 'oh the Thor lynch!' that isn't going to carry the ball any further than it is right now (because, functionally, you're leaving Iz to do it - you think Iz can out debate me?). So it's really just a question of how much you want this lynch to happen.
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Post Post #3598 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:38 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3594, goodmorning wrote:
In post 3593, Slandaar wrote:Do you, GM, think Iz slipped or not? (yes or no answer only please) Then: Why do you think this?

It's a little more complicated than a yes or no answer, so I'm afraid I thusly cannot answer.

Why not just add in a few words of explanation if your answer is 'depends'?

C'mon, Thor is scum for stalling, right? :lol:
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Post Post #3599 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:06 am

Post by reinoe »

In post 3597, Thor665 wrote:
Wow, the Thor *lynch*? Wooosh, GM, aren't we going with wishful thinking.
In case you didn't notice, the Thor *wagon* (much less the lynch) is dead in the water now. People are starting to notice the reasoning is slim to none (or slim to dumb - hot'cha!) and others are starting to establish that they want to hear and understand the case before voting it, so the wave of derp and scum voters is already over.

Why are you boasting that the wagon on you has stalled? The wagon formed on you totally legitimately. Furthermore there's something like 8 days left in this DP. Totally legit reason for a wagon to stall is because people want to observe interactions and ensure that the day doesn't end unnecessarily quickly. Also if you flip scum, the reason why the wagon could be stalling would be because one or more of your buddies is running interference. Your "this wagon has stalled" excuse is poor.

Also to re-emphasize the point...Muffin is conftown and was highlighting many of the things other players have pointed out and mentioned.

Town/=right...
...however...
Town=genuine/honest/sincere

You've repeatedly tried to denounce or discredit the people voting you but the case on you is solid.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

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