NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #3675 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:23 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3671, reinoe wrote:
In post 3669, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3661, reinoe wrote:4) Axxle claims that Thor never called the case scummy which is a lie at worst and an oversight at best.


--->Nope i never claimed that,<---
I said your statement was about the present tense.

That is certainly not never.

In post 3637, Izariael wrote:
In post 3626, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3601, reinoe wrote:5. Conftown means that the case can't possibly be as scummy as you're trying to portray it as.


@reinoe
First
Please show me where Thor portrayed it as scummy.
--->(He didnt)<---

Axle, did you miss this?
In post 3202, Thor665 wrote:
--->It is scummy,<---
stupid, and annoying.
In post 3203, Thor665 wrote:
Vote: muffin

Thor is very clearly indicating that he found it scummy.


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Hey look what happens when you dont prune out the parts of the thoughts I said, and selectively quote me
point 5 was a present tense statement about now
I responded to that.

Please stop doing that.
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Post Post #3676 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:35 pm

Post by davesaz »

@GM: is adding original ideas to someone else's point. was also adding. I have no control over others seeing things and responding to them before I've even had a chance to read them.
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Post Post #3677 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:52 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@dave Thre has been some loud noise, don't forget +
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Post Post #3678 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:53 pm

Post by davesaz »

The unmodified and untrimmed post, as evidence.

In post 3626, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3601, reinoe wrote:5. Conftown means that the case can't possibly be as scummy as you're trying to portray it as.


@reinoe
First
Please show me where Thor portrayed it as scummy. (He didnt)

Second:
Here is an argument of Muffiins. (The flipped conf town player)

I claim the argument and the point it makes is crap. (not scummy, it cant be, he flipped town)

Please show how Muffins argument is in anyway good....

Note you didnt actually say it has to be good just not scummy. Merely being Not scummy is irrelevant to working out if the case holds water, so I am assuming you actually meant to say more than that.


The statement in question, with emphasis:
"First Please show me where Thor portrayed
it
as scummy.
(He didnt)
"

It
refers to Muffin's case. You specifically said that Thor did not portray Muffin's case as scummy. Nothing here about
when
. Your post
as written
should be interpreted as "At no time did Thor portray the case as scummy." Reinoe proved that Thor did think Muffin's case was scummy, before flip. That proof is
not
a misrep of you. At most, it is a misinterpretation of your statement, if you really meant that Thor didn't call Muffin's case scummy
after the flip
. But that interpretation is nonsense, because even the stupidest newbscum on the planet wouldn't say someone's case was scummy after they flipped town.

Maybe this is just passionate defense of your honor, but it puts you back on my radar. Especially considering you're reacting to it while not under any kind of duress.
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Post Post #3679 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:55 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 3677, AxleGreaser wrote:@dave Thre has been some loud noise, don't forget +


I replied to that.
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Post Post #3680 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:57 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3674, goodmorning wrote:(Example: this happened to Muffin when he pointed out that Thor's version of events was incorrect as Shiro's scumread on Anen was decreasing; Thor responded by moving the posts to the amount of discussion rather than the content of said discussion.)

Quote me calling out the content and not the amount - even Muffin understood from the get go that I was talking amount --> he then claimed I "moved the goalposts to quantity"

So at least one of you is a total derp who got it backwards because you claim opposite things.

In post 3674, goodmorning wrote:@Thor: Did I say the situation was the same? No. Stop putting words in my mouth.

So...you brought up something that was different to show how I am in this game, and I was scum in the different game...?

@Reinoe - there is nothing there that disproves the point I made. He felt that the conversation showed a logical progression about Anen - I claimed that it was weird that he voted Pere without discussion considering how much he had said about Anen. Where is the missed angle there?
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Post Post #3681 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:59 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3680, Thor665 wrote:he then claimed I "moved the goalposts to quantity"

He claimed I moved to "quality"

So Muffin claimed I had meant quantity and moved to quality.
You claim I started at quality and moved to quantity.

I am pretty sure one of you is insane.
Sort it out and get back to me.
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Post Post #3682 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:08 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3674, goodmorning wrote:You know that thing that people find super scummy? That "hint at a wagon but don't actually push it" thing?


In which case this play of yours yesterday is ... according to you... super scummy.

In post 893, goodmorning wrote:trading vanity for vanity
Vote: Thor

maybe i'm crazy

In post 927, goodmorning wrote:On Thor is mostly a tone-based read as I think I've made clear. I don't expect anyone to believe/follow me and I'm fine with that (to all others who asked).

as this second post seems to be rowing it backwards.
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Post Post #3683 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:18 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3678, davesaz wrote:The unmodified and untrimmed post, as evidence.

In post 3626, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3601, reinoe wrote:5. Conftown means that
the case
can't possibly be as scummy as you're trying to portray it as.


@reinoe
First
Please show me where Thor portrayed it as scummy. (He didnt)

Second:
Here is an argument of Muffiins. (The flipped conf town player)

I claim the argument and the point it makes is crap. (not scummy, it cant be, he flipped town)

Please show how Muffins argument is in anyway good....

Note you didnt actually say it has to be good just not scummy. Merely being Not scummy is irrelevant to working out if the case holds water, so I am assuming you actually meant to say more than that.


The statement in question, with emphasis:
"First Please show me where Thor portrayed
it
as scummy.
(He didnt)
"

It
refers to Muffin's case. You specifically said that Thor did not portray Muffin's case as scummy. Nothing here about
when
. Your post
as written
should be interpreted as "At no time did Thor portray the case as scummy." Reinoe proved that Thor did think Muffin's case was scummy, before flip. That proof is
not
a misrep of you. At most, it is a misinterpretation of your statement, if you really meant that Thor didn't call Muffin's case scummy
after the flip
. But that interpretation is nonsense, because even the stupidest newbscum on the planet wouldn't say someone's case was scummy after they flipped town.

Maybe this is just passionate defense of your honor, but it puts you back on my radar. Especially considering you're reacting to it while not under any kind of duress.


Yep and as soon as i was asked about it, I explained that my question to Reinoe was about reinoes language which is present tense and thus claims Thior is currently claiming that
Here is the relevant part of that post
In post 3640, AxleGreaser wrote:
[deleted ... quotes of previous posts]
nah more didn't think about them because this statement
In post 3601, reinoe wrote:5. Conftown means that the case can't possibly be as scummy as you're trying to portray it as.

is in the
present tense
and is a claim about now.

Reinoe appears to me to be appealing to the authority of a flipped towny.
Saying the case cant be scum because a flipped towny agreed with with it ...
Hey flipped PereV thought Thor might be scum too, but thats irrelevant as I didnt like his argument either.

Reinoe needs to justify the argument not the people who supported it when they were alive in the game.


As i explained what I had said already, then yes reinoe is misrepping me.
and as it is required for reinoe to cut out the rest of single thought, the bit that comes after the comma, to do so, means it is a misrep from my POV.

and yes reinoe leaning on flipped townie, who had problem with one part of thors play, when all the rest of
the case
is largely made up crap
as i have already shown GMs contribution is.

Then yes reinoes leaning on the flipped towny to justify
the case
was and is bad.
The flipped towny was only ever making points on part of the case.
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Post Post #3684 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:20 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3660, davesaz wrote:
In post 3656, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3654, davesaz wrote:
In post 3651, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3647, davesaz wrote:Is dead on the money. I'm no more convinced that GM is town than Thor. Both are obfuscating, and both act annoyed when people question them about it.


and what is your view on the Garmr wagon?

Don't see the reasons.


err. What do you mean?

not see == says you dont see any reasons for Garmr being scum posted in thread.
not see == you say the ones that are posted dont make sense to you.


Don't agree with.


sorry missed this (oops I am on the radar again?)

Ok so which bits, do you not agree with.
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Post Post #3685 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:23 pm

Post by Boonskiies »

prod dodge
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Post Post #3686 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:27 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 3681, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3680, Thor665 wrote:he then claimed I "moved the goalposts to quantity"

He claimed I moved to "quality"

So Muffin claimed I had meant quantity and moved to quality.
You claim I started at quality and moved to quantity.

I am pretty sure one of you is insane.
Sort it out and get back to me.


You stated a case on Shiro.
Muffin asked what the basis was.
You said it was because Shiro was talking more about Anen but voted PereV.
Muffin showed the quantity was roughly even.
You said that number of mentions was immaterial, it was degree of mention.
Muffin asked you to show, with quotes of Shiro, what you meant.
You refused to do so, and continue to do so.


This is what is scummy. The bolded thing. Someone asks you to prove your point, and
you ask them to prove the counter point
.
You complain about others not carrying their case forward, but you're doing something even worse, not just failing to carry it but refusing to.
Not just creating miscommunication, but actively fostering it and refusing to fix the problem.
You did that with PereV, where the two of you were clearly using different definitions, and given a chance to find common ground holding steadfast to your point. (Which he did too, but you're still here...)

Is that clear enough? Do you get what the case is?
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Post Post #3687 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:34 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3678, davesaz wrote:while not under any kind of duress.

I reacted badly to shouting that loudly, trimming my posts mid sentence to change what they say...

(also didnt like the slidy appeal to authority to support the whole case, when muffin only said some stuff
(and i offered to actually argue about the substance of the case and FlippedTown!muffins contribution.
but that is somehow less important than shouting)

Also,
Id like to get my scum read lynched.

Pretty sure that is most of what has been prominently in my head lately.

So yeah, like
Abou Ben Adhem
, put me down on your radar for that please.
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Post Post #3688 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:28 pm

Post by Izariael »

In post 3686, davesaz wrote:
In post 3681, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3680, Thor665 wrote:he then claimed I "moved the goalposts to quantity"

He claimed I moved to "quality"

So Muffin claimed I had meant quantity and moved to quality.
You claim I started at quality and moved to quantity.

I am pretty sure one of you is insane.
Sort it out and get back to me.


You stated a case on Shiro.
Muffin asked what the basis was.
You said it was because Shiro was talking more about Anen but voted PereV.
Muffin showed the quantity was roughly even.
You said that number of mentions was immaterial, it was degree of mention.
Muffin asked you to show, with quotes of Shiro, what you meant.
You refused to do so, and continue to do so.


This is what is scummy. The bolded thing. Someone asks you to prove your point, and
you ask them to prove the counter point
.
You complain about others not carrying their case forward, but you're doing something even worse, not just failing to carry it but refusing to.
Not just creating miscommunication, but actively fostering it and refusing to fix the problem.
You did that with PereV, where the two of you were clearly using different definitions, and given a chance to find common ground holding steadfast to your point. (Which he did too, but you're still here...)

Is that clear enough? Do you get what the case is?


Somebody give this man a medal. Any doubts I had of davesaz have just been shattered.
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Post Post #3689 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:32 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 3644, goodmorning wrote:@Tier: stop making me flipflop on you

your treatment of shiro looks sort of town but your thor shifts are random as anything

Why do my shifts on thor make me scummy?
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Post Post #3690 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:36 pm

Post by TierShift »

Well iza dave is just repeating your argument so that should not really get him townpoints.
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Post Post #3691 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:40 pm

Post by Izariael »

In post 3690, TierShift wrote:Well iza dave is just repeating your argument so that should not really get him townpoints.

I guess that's somewhat true. I'm feeling a bit frustrated by the status of Thor lynch so I guess it feel re-affirming to see it said from another perspective.
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Post Post #3692 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:47 pm

Post by TierShift »

Could you give a look at the reasons I posted for townreading thor, mostly ?

Here's a question for you: with no regard to the correctness of your argument, how strong do you think your argument for lynching thor is?

In other words, exactly how alignment-indicative is refusal to back up your statement (while the raw data to do so is present!) and instead discredit?
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Post Post #3693 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:53 pm

Post by Izariael »

I'm sold enough on it that I'm not planning to move my vote anytime soon. I have other scumreads, but Thor is pretty fuckin' scummy.

I'm working on the mother of all posts, so brace yourself. It should be done shortly.
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Post Post #3694 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:00 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 3686, davesaz wrote:Not just creating miscommunication, but actively fostering it and refusing to fix the problem.
You did that with PereV, where the two of you were clearly using different definitions, and given a chance to find common ground holding steadfast to your point. (Which he did too, but you're still here...)

Just what do you think of this, iza?
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Post Post #3695 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:07 pm

Post by Izariael »

In post 3694, TierShift wrote:
In post 3686, davesaz wrote:Not just creating miscommunication, but actively fostering it and refusing to fix the problem.
You did that with PereV, where the two of you were clearly using different definitions, and given a chance to find common ground holding steadfast to your point. (Which he did too, but you're still here...)

Just what do you think of this, iza?


I think it's absolutely spot on. I've been trying to find the post where it was made clear that they were not seeing eye-to-eye on the definitions being used, but it'll have to wait again until I finish up this post I'm working on.

I think that Thor should have re-evaluated his scumread on PeregrineV after that disconnect was made clear, as Peregrine had done.
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Post Post #3696 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:10 pm

Post by TierShift »

Blegh that part is so awful in truth

That link to Pere is bad, because this is a cmpletely different situation.
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Post Post #3697 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:12 pm

Post by TierShift »

Thor, scum on your wagon is probably dave.

Flubber, you've been pushing for dave all this time, haven't you? Can you maybe give me a rundown on why you think he's scum?
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Post Post #3698 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:13 pm

Post by Izariael »

Sure it's a completely different situation to the one with Muffin, but
it was still scummy
. Just because it's day 2 doesn't mean I'm going to ignore what transpired on day 1.
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Post Post #3699 (ISO) » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:17 pm

Post by TierShift »

Right, but Thor's now just being awkward for no reason at all, while yesterday he needed to be so to get pere lynched.

The situations really don't match up. I know scum that bullheadedly push something to get a lynch through and I know scum that are awkward in general, but they do not overlap. You can't really be scum for both.
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