NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[The Fonz]

Iz/Slandaar is making me feel better about both of them.

iza is town. he is. thor, look elsewhere.

Is this read for the wall/effort=town or anything else?
Because earlier he did a cop out on the case and now he's champion of the case, and I can't read the shift as easily as you apparently do.

Thor, can you explain this? I don't need a wall, and Iz has been giving me some gut scumvibes, but when I look in detail I can't pin down anything specific.

Again more than one person can see the reason for the switch. The reason was there you just dont find it reasonable.

So again you either think the reason was BS thus the vote was weak with no reason and scummy
Or
The vote was made in a way to pass responsibility thus scummy. That in itself is a reason

Both cant mutualy exist

This isn't any kind of contradiction unless you're interpreting 'reason' incredibly narrowly. The claim is that you made a move with no apparent protown reason for it, therefore he's inferring you had a scum reason that you didn't admit to for obvious reasons.

Maybe Fonz is buddying Thor because he borrowed Thor's goalposts.

DIESCUMDIE

I mean, seriously. I can spot an attempt to scapegoat when I see one.

Also, this line of reasoning would IMPLY THOR IS TOWN, wouldn't it? So why are you still voting Thor?

Oh, right.

People, vote Flubber.

The real question is why the fonz is defending all of Thor's derp.

OH HAI disguised OMGUS.

It's because the case on Thor looks exactly like cases on me when I'm town.

I didn't realize I was voting for you.

The post is an OMGUS attack. Attacking someone in an OMGUS way doesn't necessarily require a vote. Surely, surely, you're not this stupid.

Similarly, when GM claims Thor isn't scumhunting because tunnel, I wonder if she knows what scumhunting is. There is no value in 'commenting on other players' if you're confident you have scum in your dights.

Possibly, just possibly, YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY PLAYER IN THE GAME. OTHER PEOPLE NEED TO READ YOU. WHEN YOU CAN POST LITTLE ENOUGH ON 99% OF PLAYERS, YOU CAN HAVE WHATEVER OPINION IS CONVENIENT. THERE IS NOT ONLY ONE SCUM IN A GAME THIS SIZE.

Yeah, this is bullshit. YOUR PRIORITY AS TOWN IS TO GET YOUR STRONGEST SCUMREAD LYNCHED. JESUS. "Posting so people can get a read on you" = Posting to look town, rather than to forward protown goals.

Thor, will you consider wagoning Flubber?

There's very little to like there. Goodmorning just sucks. She's unlikely to be scum.

[Thor665]

Iz/Slandaar is making me feel better about both of them.

iza is town. he is. thor, look elsewhere.

Is this read for the wall/effort=town or anything else?
Because earlier he did a cop out on the case and now he's champion of the case, and I can't read the shift as easily as you apparently do.

Thor, can you explain this? I don't need a wall, and Iz has been giving me some gut scumvibes, but when I look in detail I can't pin down anything specific.

I'm not sure what there is to explain - I'm asking Tier a question there and describing two things that Iz did and asking for Tier's conclusions.

Thor, will you consider wagoning Flubber?

There's very little to like there. Goodmorning just sucks. She's unlikely to be scum.

Eh, if you can get that wagon bigger I'll move. But honestly I'm not feeling it. I'd probably rather lynch a lirksack like you or TSO than Flubber, frankly.

[Aegor]

A replacement for Garmr has been found; I will finalize once I get out of my piano lesson.


Consider the following rule in effect:

Any game-relevant speculation about mod motivation for any action taken by the mod is completely unacceptable and will result in a force-replace or modkill, since none of my decisions are influenced by alignment or any other game-specific criterion under any circumstances, which fact you all now know. Any suggestion that they are is not only false, but a direct attack on my integrity.

This is not meant to be draconian, but to limit the discussion in-thread to the actual game and not out-of-game considerations. In other words, it is meant to uphold the purpose of the mod, which is to facilitate but not influence the game. I take this very seriously.

[Shiro]

Has blaze slot been anything but null from predesscesors ?

[davesaz]

Who?

[Shiro]

Sorry meant beast

[Thor665]

I scumread Haep - but I seem to recall getting some blowback on that point, so I'm thinking some people town read him.
Why, wanna make a sudden rush wagon there?

[Izariael]

I'm not entirely opposed to this idea. My only hesitation to it is that I sincerely doubt a beastcharizard lynch would reveal anything about the bigger picture. We would just have his flip and not much else to go off. Seems minimally-informative given the chronic lurkiness of the slot...

[Thor665]

That's bull-hooey - you'd also have his wagon to analyze and who joined or didn't.

[TierShift]

@Tiershift - Dave wagon is dead unless he fails to produce some meta on his liar wail - how about voting GM for a time with me. Or at least moving to help a wagon doing *anything at all*.

Sry, bit disconnected atm.

V/la from tomorrow till sunday

[Izariael]

Does anyone have thoughts on beastcharizard/hephaestus slot? Is it alignment-indicative for either player to be so lurky?

May as well ask again since I don't recall being answered previously. I scumread the excessive lurkiness of the slot, but recall seeing a comment that hephaestus was expected to lurk as it is typical of his play that has given me pause. Will attempt to find it after work if no one cares to step forward w/the statement.

[Izariael]

Comment in question came on Day 1, FTR

[Izariael]

That's bull-hooey - you'd also have his wagon to analyze and who joined or didn't.

I don't think voting a Hephaestus wagon would be as alignment-indicative as voting a more active player's wagon, and would therefore not be as informative. You are welcome to disagree, but my stance on this is not likely to change.

[Thor665]

@Tiershift - Dave wagon is dead unless he fails to produce some meta on his liar wail - how about voting GM for a time with me. Or at least moving to help a wagon doing *anything at all*.

Sry, bit disconnected atm.

V/la from tomorrow till sunday

That's bull-hooey - you'd also have his wagon to analyze and who joined or didn't.

I don't think voting a Hephaestus wagon would be as alignment-indicative as voting a more active player's wagon, and would therefore not be as informative. You are welcome to disagree, but my stance on this is not likely to change.

You have perfectly described why lurking is a scum strategy.

[Izariael]

...Hence why I'm scumreading the slot?

[Thor665]

...and why you apparently oppose the idea of lynching it.

[Izariael]

Gotta go to work, but I will get back to this later

[Shiro]

I scumread Haep - but I seem to recall getting some blowback on that point, so I'm thinking some people town read him.
Why, wanna make a sudden rush wagon there?

I tend to dislike excessive lurking and I wanted to see where people stand about the slot.

[davesaz]

Heph lurked in recently completed Open 570 and was mafia.
One game does not a pattern make, but I had been thinking along those lines and as Thor pointed out my vote is not currently in use.
This is as good a use as any, while I take deeper looks to see which of the other wagons may be more deserving.

VOTE: beastcharizard

[Aegor]

Josh_B replaces Garmr, effective immediately.

[beastcharizard]

Hephaestus litterally just dissappeared. I had to replace him in my modded game as well. I wouldn't call that lurking.

I am just being a lazy shit. Also, I forget this is a thing sometimes too.

Now kindly unvote me.

[AxleGreaser]

Second, if you're going to attempt to call my reads un-natural because of a perceived block, at least use the final vote count rather than using one that you think illustrates your point best.

Iz the final vote count block is the final vote count block.
However, Slaadars vote count block is at least ALSO important because for your scum reads to all be valid,
then you have to believe that your scum reads clumped up in group like

IZ's View of the game:

Votecount 1.16

[7]

PeregrineV:

Egg

,

Thor665, Scripten

, davesaz,

The Fonz, Boonskiies,

T S O

[4]

Aneninen:

WBOCampfire1104, Muffin, TierShift, Garmr
[4]

Thor665:

goodmorning, Nero Cain, flubbernugget, Izariael
[1]

goodmorning:

Slandaar
[1]

Scripten:

PeregrineV
[1]

Slandaar:

Aneninen
[1]

T S O:

AxleGreaser
[1]

WBOCampire1104:

Grayfoxxxx


[1]

Not Voting:

hephaestus

Red = Scum. Blue also applies to all Red's.
Blue = suspicious vote on PV.

It's just not very believable.

and even though it is not the final one, your reads indicate you are counting that as credible.

@Iz
please explain how credible you find it that your scum reads all clumped like that at any time during the day.

[AxleGreaser]

Catching-up.

Garmr, 360: This was just WTF. What Tha Fukk.

Garmr, 415 – that vote, uhhh. If you have told that you had voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it. But, what kind of reasoning was that?


some reads.

Garmr is

FoS

-Scum.

Having trimmed down Aneninen's 418 to a manageable size, I see that there

is

a Garmr scum read there. Doesn't this contradict Axle's statement that Garmr thought Anen was scum reading him but really wasn't?

Nope not at all.
How

big a scum

read is that?
Would you react to it and decide hey no that guy shot gunjning comments about the thread just "labelled me scum"
Most normal proportionate reactions to FoS on this site are more of the form "put your money where your mouth is you mealy mouthed worm...."

So no my case, the one you read forgot and discounted, because i said it, not the facts were wrong, expressly pointed that out. (see 2481 Holy over sensitive soul)

Garmr was being over sensitive about a minor scum read.

@anenien
What's wrong with my reasoning?

Boonskies was the fact he needed to clarify that those were rvs votes.¹ No one really asked him for it and it seems odd as town why you feel the need to say hey this is a rvs vote. He really hasn't done anything to strike me as town either.² Also he dodged the csereo subject and didn't give his thoughts on it which made me feel uncomfortable.³

(1) Boonskiies was just being Boonskiies. I can tell you I've seen that. Even if you haven't come across with him, why is it a scumtell?
(2) So? Hasn't done anything to strike me as town either? This description fits quite a lot of people here.
(3) He has dodged almost every subject so far.

I'm not saying that he's town. He may be scum. But, NOT because of your reasons, Gammrnmhrm.

1.I'm not the only one who thought that was scummy (thor did) and how is that even a defence boon skies is boon skies. Like i said why would town need to clarify themselves.

2.Well if the only thing that strikes me are scum points thenwhy should I think his town?

3.You just made my point even stronger. Dodging subjects is town how?

Is there something abnormal about this interaction? Doesn't look like Garmr has backed down on Boon, and it does look like Anen is trying to get him to back down. Doesn't this contradict Axle's version of this event?

Side note: At this point in time I thought that Anen's mispronouncing of people's names was scummy, and intended to anger them into bad reactions.

Nope Garmr claimed the pressure

was

cut short, you claim Garmr didnt even back down.
Garmr claimed that not backed down (according to you stance) cut his pressure on Boon short

What I found scummy was I didn't like the

he stopped my pressure

on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him.

So as Garmr position was according to you(Dave) not changed you agree Garmr pressure on boon was not cut short by Anen,
and thus that part Garmrs read on Anen was BS?

[Scripten]

Welcome to the game Josh!

Sorry you had to replace into a scum slot. Who're your scumbuddies?

[AxleGreaser]

Next Axle point, Garmr dropped Boon and switched to Anen because Anen made him drop boon.

Nope that is not my point. (its a little like garmrs claim, but Garmr claimed he stopped the pressure NOT the vote)

So, on D1 Garmr voted Anen for

stopping Garmrs pressure on Boon

(amongst the rest of this)

Spoiler: Garmrs reason for voting Anen

fuck It here it goes. What I found scummy was I didn't like the he

stopped my pressure on boon

at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him. Annenin comes in and trys to dismantle my case because he doesn't agree (Town motive)/wants to discredit(scum motive what I think) he fails to do so as my points still actually stand. I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to

label me as scum

for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.

Do you beleieve that Anen did stop Garmrs pressure on Boon, and more importantly how do you think Garmr came to that conclusion when Garmr also claimed

I asked Garmr why he voted Anen. Garmr explained his reasons. I quoted them then i checked out if they were true (or reasonable).

yes. Garmr voting Garmrs second best read when Garmrs top one claims is a thing to do. (That is why that is not part of my case.)
Why was Anen the second best read and is it a reasonable towny position to hold. (is part of my case) (Garmr gave his reasons they were scummy crap)

Garmr claims Anen cut his Boon pressure short, (see purple text in spoilered quote)
Garmr claims Anen did that by failing to dicredit the points against Boon, which means they cannot even in Garmrs mind have cut the pressure short.
Garmr felt his points on Boon stood and were even strengthened by Anens posts...

yet Garmr contradict-orally also claims that failing to discredit the points made the pressure go away. Utter scummy made up BS.

[... much removed as it does not address the actual case ... (see below for why not)]

It doesn't look like

Anen "made" Garmr switch

. But I must say that if I were in Garmr's shoes at this point I might think that Anen "facilitated" the switch by becoming a better target than Boon. A contradiction in Axle's theory? Depends on what Garmr said about it later.

and I dont think Garmr or I suggested at anytime that

Anen "made" Garmr switch.

Garmr claimed Anen took the pressure off Boon, he didnt.

Garmrs own claims about what Anen did make the belief implausible(scum!Garmr made it up), as Garmr claims Anen strengthend the some points on Boon and failed to discredit others,

(I claim it wa not even a fail to discredit, Anen was checking the validity of the points and offering others instead.)

---

PS. When claiming to argue against point please quote me making it. Ok?