NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[Nero Cain]

i might start to care about this game later

Care about it now.

[davesaz]

@mod, I voted Thor in the post immediately before the VC, which was about an hour before.

Fixed

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: LOL

Axle I'm not voting garmr because I want to wait for a better catch up and because a vote for Thor is a vote for lollipops and rainbows and if you don't like lollipops and rainbows you're a communist.

but I like lollipops and rainbows and in this game I am a communalist (as I play for the town team) is that a problem?

(no money changes hands,quid pro quo is the only economy, and only town in this local game counts my allies)

(also warning chance of typos goes up for next 24hrs due to the computer setup I am stuck on)

so I will put Flubber down as definite maybe...

I'll be back

for you later
<

Bloody hipster voters

>

Would it help if pointed out how hard Thor has seemed to be trying to disassemble the Garmr wagon?

(What if I sold you my grandma?)

<nope thats one step too far>

[davesaz]

Look at that shotgun vote. We have to move 4 votes to make Thor happen, or 6 to make Josh happen.
For me to vote Josh, someone other than Axle needs to convince me the slot is scummy, without using the "Garmr contradiction" case as evidence.

Thor has basically been begging to be put at L-1 so he can feel justified in full claiming. I don't get the mentality on this site that says it's scummy to claim earlier than L-1, but whatever. Though there is a double standard on that, few people seem to think that Boon's claim is terribly scummy. Though that is possibly just due to how silly the claim is.

The two votes on Flubber should be in play. One of those players could certainly try to make a case there. I've seen some town in Flubber's posting, but it is certainly not stellar. Nero and Fonz, are your votes on Flubber mainly just to protest the top wagons?

TSO's vote may not be available to us, depending on whether he's really still here or not.

Tier, whatever you're looking at me for, pay more attention to the overall picture and less on minutae. I'm far from perfect, but I'm doing mostly stuff that would be crazy for scum to do.

Boon, Shiro, Josh, beastcharizard: The single votes, or non-votes, are wasted where they are.

@ALL: What are we going to do if Thor claims something we can't/shouldn't lynch?

[Shiro]

For me to vote Josh, someone other than Axle needs to convince me the slot is scummy, without using the "Garmr contradiction" case as evidence.

Here my two posts about him.
3630
3624

Are they helping ?

[The Fonz]

A problem I have with that wagon is that have you as PE#2, though. Not sure enough you're scum that it isn't worth a go mind.

Axle == parsing error.
PE#2 is Process of Elimination 2 or what? or Piece of Excrement number 2 or ... ?

Also... try talking to me?

What you wanna know?

Probe me on the case see if i am genuine?

Huh?

Public Enemy No2. As in my second strongest scum read. I still feel your claim that you felt TSO unviable rings false. But meh. Like I said, when I have time for a proper post (sometime between 6-12 hrs from now - I just finished a 12hr nightshift).

@Thor - GM is a town read. I'd prefer Josh. Beast has literally no votes. I'm not sure why I should compromise onto a

less

viable wagon. Give me 3 votes, and we'll talk.

@Dave: No. Flubber is my top scum read. It is utterly inconsistent to believe Thor is scum AND I'm buddying him. It's not a protest, though I won't vote Thor even to prevent a NL.

[Izariael]

Pretty much what I'm seeing is that there are exactly zero persons in this game with enough consensus to lynch... which isn't cool. There's gonna have to be a change somewhere, because that vote count is dismal.

[Shiro]

Well I am willing to lynch

Slandar<>Gamr slot>beast>>>Thor(Will if have to)

In that order

I think everyone should list who they are willing to lynch and see if we can find common ground

[Izariael]

I was thinking along the same lines, because if a compromise wasn't necessary there would have been a lynch by now I think. I've determined the following:

Most preferred

Thor
Scripten
Slandaar
beastcharizard
Boonskiies
Fonz

Less preferred

Not feeling inclined to vote anyone else at this time.

[Boonskiies]

Catching up. Sorry, been busy past few days.

[AxleGreaser]

@Axl I would agree but I am still Slandar top scum read, How does that fit in the way you presented his thoughts ?

But he is currently voting Garmr.

last statement I found showing strength of read was

I don't think Shiro is town.

after that he looks like he discusses with you the basis of his original concern about your alignment.

You appear to be very sensitive about the fact that anyone expresses actual suspicion of you and wants to talk to you about it.
you actually ought perhaps be more concerned about people that dont.


In 4018 I went to some length to talk about you case and say whats wrong with it.
This latest question appears to be related to only the point where i was saying he stopped.
And yes he is not pushing that point now. He will still be suspicious of you and he probably will come back to you and question you more about other things you do.
What else would expect from town?

as my post also states problems I have with the rest of your case, and you didn´t rebut those.
Surely how scummy you view Slaandar has been reduced.

are you saying he is still you biggest and best scum read?

(note this post was mainly written some hours ago, visitors+dinner. SO I am not sure if it is now out of place.)

[Shiro]

You made some fair points which is why my list went from slandar >Gamr to Slandar<>Gamr for a lynch

Although Gm said she doesnt even remember getting pushed by him

His case on me being weak isnt the main problem. The fact I was his certain scum person with such weak reasoning and the fact he never truly tried to push me is. Even his way was weak since it allowed people to forget previous points. He wanted to look as if he is pushing while making sure none would follow.

It is because he was trying to buddy thor. It is because like with pere he defended without actually presenting an alternative
It is because it look like he want to be able to say told u so when thor flipped. Exactly like he did with pere when he anounced how he tried to save him.

[Shiro]

The oppisite is acceptable like you said.

Finding the vote scummy cause no reason >Invedtigate > Trying to pass blame (Scummy reason)

He said he found the trying to pass responsibility scummy and after that he said he found the vote being without reason scummy. How does that make sense ?

Thinks the way the vote is made pases respobsibility > Investigates > The vote is empty with no reason ???

He forgot he said something else some time ago and when I asked he rehashed Thor reason to be appease to him.

[Flubbernugget]

Axle I'm not voting garmr because I want to wait for a better catch up and because a vote for Thor is a vote for lollipops and rainbows and if you don't like lollipops and rainbows you're a communist.

That must be why you insist on Stalin the game.

Don't start Putin filler in this thread.

And happy scumday bro.

[Flubbernugget]

@Fonz I'm not sure yet whether or not you trying to build a case on me over a snarky comment I've made (that I've made no actual push on btw) is a result of your ego or your alignment.

[Slandaar]

Shiro are you saying the reason you voted PV is because you had passed responsibility to Thor?

[Slandaar]

Pere is fairly familiar with Thor, probably the most so of the players in this game. That means his existence was a potential threat. The longer he was left alive, the likelier he'd be to come up with a correct read, one that would be listened to.

I have quite a bit of experience with Thor. Are you listening to me GM?

[Slandaar]

I have played with PV like 10 times maybe more. No-one listened to me about that. My meta read was absolute. That is the most nonsense I have read in a long time.

[Slandaar]

@Slandaar - would you support a GM or Beast wagon and will you move your vote? If not, could you explain by specifically stating th ename, what player you expect to get to join the Garmr wagon due to your efforts of convincing them to move their vote?

We all know that we vote GM and it will get 4 votes like the Garmr wagon and stall. Beast will go but it's very compromiseish and chance of him being scum isn't great so I prefer not to today if he is still as useless tomorrow then yes.

Shiro will be convinced to join the Garmr wagon (I don't really have names)

When I get home I shall take the leadership role as this town obviously needs me to actually beat them into submission. I have not really been in the game the last few days due to stuff.

[AxleGreaser]

Public Enemy No2. As in my second strongest scum read. I still feel your claim that you felt TSO unviable rings false. But meh. Like I said, when I have time for a proper post (sometime between 6-12 hrs from now - I just finished a 12hr nightshift).

well if you feel that for gawds sake do something about it.

There are a bunch of reasons for that play if you really want to know.

Spoiler: Things you dont know which mean you cant have an accurate guess on how reasonable that one choice is

You dont know how sure I was TSO is scum d1. TSO is my D1 the alternative wagon was PereV vs Thor or Anen. All I have to be for certain is more sure TSO will flip scum (than the others),
and or be comparably likely to flip scum

and

is unlikely to start playing observably towny D2. TSO fullfiiled that second criteria in spades. He had already indicated strong desire not to be cooperative in his play style.
You can have some sense from your reading of things I actually said. I was trying to get the scummiest guy lynched... so don´t read too much.
But as no one, and I pretty much mean no one else was willing to even apply pressure(vote) on him D1, where is my magical faith that they will then on D2 consider lynching him with no more actual information come from.

Not only that but if anyone had changed on D2 and suddenly become sure TSO was scum when they wouldnt budge D1, that would be scummy as fuck, and Id want to lynch anyone else that voted for TSO D2 without new evidence. So trying to get new vote on TSO without new info is actually I think self defeating.
(note for future games meta readers (and this games readers) this D1 was special with how little anyone pushed anything, so them flipping onto TSO D2 would be awful.)

You also have no valid estimate, of what I thought might eventuate if I stopped pushing so hard. I did indicate a desire to still see the reads(even with the flip), he indicted he had promised them to his hood.
If he lied and he hadn´t then him lying about what he said to his hood is for them to sort out. If he had promised an didnt deliver to them, that is again for them to sort out.
If I had stuck my big fat nose in that then TSO could again simply have effectively said ¨No I wont do it because axle pisses me off and hes stupid, and so I dont want to.¨ Childish and silly but it worked fine D1. and he has meta for pissing matches.... (but see muffins law about meta)

Also go back and see who I first pointed out Anens previous game history too? It was Garmr.
I was always interested, and always thought his stated reasons were probably scummy, but my D1 plan had been to get TSOs reasons first then move on or at least talk to them both.
TSO stalled for so damn long I never got to also deal with Garmr D1.

So on D2 I did the productive thing and checked if anyone else was scummier.
You seem to be rather heavily implying you´d possibly vote TSO today? If so then you find him scummy, you push it. If he is scum, he cant pretend pre-existing bad blood with you.

Your problem with reading my seeming change in direction as town, is you have an over simplistic expectation of how I play the game and how tunnelled I am on TSO.
One of my std sigs is ÄxleNoTheoryToAbsurdToBeConsideredGreaser. I never get 100% tunnelled. The theory I am in the wrong tunnel is never to absurd.

also as that is one choice youd have to hav an accurate and strong feel for it to reasonably get to PE#2 status.

Thus I have problem with you.

You have claimed I am your PE#2

I have a huge fricken filter and long posts, on lots of stuff.
and the one scummy point you have to mention is a change in direction you have never really asked me about much?
FFS. All my reads have more substance than that.
If your reads are actually that thin do something about it ....
It looks like stalling.

For a start,
take your hands out of your pockets and work out if that one tiny point in my great big filter is anything at all.

Its not. (see above)

[AxleGreaser]

No, I'm arguing there is no possible way Garmr could be scum,

because of the continued discussion of Anen's effect on the Boon push. Based on my opinions about how scum play.

Scum would stop talking about Boon. Period. Scum Garmr would never again mention his push on Boon. Not even to defend against someone attacking him for it. The correct scum play is to say "what are you talking about, I dropped that ages ago when Boon soft claimed". The correct scum play is to say "well, Anen flipped town so there is no point in further discussion about whether that was a chainsaw". No, arguing with you about it shows explicit town motivation. Garmr was using Anen to argue that you, as scum, are beating the dead horse of Anen's influence on Garmr's Boon push.

The Garmr slot might be scum,

but not for the reason you are pushing.

I am not town reading that slot. I might even be scum reading that slot.

For me to vote Josh, someone other than Axle needs to convince me the slot is scummy,

without using the "Garmr contradiction" case as evidence.

Hey dave your position on the Garmr slot lately seems rather a lot inconsistent.
Explain this.

Especially who persuaded you to change your mind so fast?

and why.

[AxleGreaser]

Although Gm said she doesnt even remember getting pushed by him

WAT.

Go read the thread an see if it happened.
Why are you trusting GM
and even if you trust GM as town, why trust the memory go read the thread. (right near the end of the day when I voted GM too.)

[AxleGreaser]

Catching up. Sorry, been busy past few days.

So boon

Good reasons to vote garmr #3 3799 #2 3421 #1 3391

@Boon
When you are catching up read those 3 and either vote Garmr or explain why not. (with details)

[Shiro]

Shiro are you saying the reason you voted PV is because you had passed responsibility to Thor?

No I am saying this is the reason you presented and this is the only thought process I can see. I am not saying I did, I am saying that now that it has been explained I can see how someone could reach that conclusion.

Shiro will be convinced to join the Garmr wagon (I don't really have names)

I need no convincing. I am ready to vote Garmr Slandar-sempai. This is the one thing we agree xD Oh and also the fact your ways made me enjoy myself the most so we also agree that fun > Victory
I made this but forgot to post it :3

[Thor665]

Thor has basically been begging to be put at L-1 so he can feel justified in full claiming. I don't get the mentality on this site that says it's scummy to claim earlier than L-1, but whatever. Though there is a double standard on that, few people seem to think that Boon's claim is terribly scummy. Though that is possibly just due to how silly the claim is.

I don't find claims prior to L-1 to be scummy.
That said - I also see no reason to claim with the case on me being what it is until I get to L-1, and frankly I was just so bored I wanted to provide *something* for people to either vote me or unvote me for.
It managed neither.

@ALL: What are we going to do if Thor claims something we can't/shouldn't lynch?

Since that will probably happen about 4 hours till deadline - I hope what you will do is recognize how bad your play has been

@Thor - GM is a town read. I'd prefer Josh. Beast has literally no votes. I'm not sure why I should compromise onto a

less

viable wagon. Give me 3 votes, and we'll talk.

Heck, get me 1 on Garmr and we'll talk. I'm working GM, not Beast - I thought that was obvious.