NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

reinoe
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Post Post #4425  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:14 am

page top for great justice
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

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Post Post #4426  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:20 am

In post 4421, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4418, AxleGreaser wrote:
I thought you were scummy for claiming that Boons contradicted himself, when he didn't. Your reaction was to start questioning me and treating me like a scum read, which is the definition of a OMGUS attack. Yes, I know that OMGUS does come from town but it also comes from scum and I think its hard to tell the difference between the two. IF you called someone scum and they attack you back, would you think they are scum or town?

Yes and no. As it depends on intent. I have developed strong town reads on people because they attacked me. (If they are town they have to try and work out my alignment somehow)
I have developed strong scum reads on people because they neither attacked me, nor worked out my alignment, but somehow just knew.
As for your point I frequently check out people who are scum reading me, one advantage of doing it at that time is they have no excuse to run away and not talk to me.

k. Explain what you think my intent was.


When?

You asked about how to read situation when the person being question responds in what may be characterised as an OMGUS manner.
That does not match the above situation where you describe period when you initially questioned me.

Remember that words thing, you need more of them. (go on feel the fluff monkey rise up within you)

Also fair warming, (and an obvious one)
I cant discern your intent in every single interaction. Sometimes I get a clear read sometimes I dont.

Things I read as scummy motivated.
I read that you habitually wanting to Pl lots of people, as per your reads list.
That you have not said you think Thor is scum, but actively want to Pl him for an ustated policy that appears to be related to

His D1 case on PereV was all sorts of horrible (but you only pointed that out on D2, didnt say so on D1, and never described what and how it was horrible)
basically all the stuff in strikes me as very bad play and much more likely to come from scum Nero than town Nero.

Your intent is to play on getting "Thor lynched for emotional payback reasons" instead of "Thor is scum because reasons".
The vagueness of the policy your lynching him (non existence as a specified thing) allows/facilitates people to go yeah lets get thor without really thinking about why.
How is it plausible people can just vote thor because? (unspecified bullshit reasons?)
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... arently.29
This wiki link is there because yeah that happens.

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Post Post #4427  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:21 am

In post 4425, reinoe wrote:page top for great justice



vote Nero now for great justice.

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Post Post #4428  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:45 am

Spoiler: serious my arse question
In post 4420, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4415, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4411, Nero Cain wrote:is town motivated and correct town play.

A PL Lynch list that long, for players with filter and content that size, is according to you "correct town play"
In post 4121, Nero Cain wrote:Would pl
Axle
T S O
Thor
The Fonz
beastcharizard

not even in my nightmares is that correct town play

that you then want to PL Thor because 'you are unsure of him' and he is a 'fluff monkey'...


I do have a serious question here. Do you even know what the term policy lynch means? The wiki definition is "Most commonly, it describes the lynch of a player who is not found to be particularly scummy, but because the player's bad play will hurt the town later on." but IMO I'm including players that are a little bit scummy and are hard to read 'cause their play is bad. In EVERY game, no one is going to get all the lynches they want all the time, these are essentially my compromise lynches.


Yes.

Wow what a useful penetrating question.

However I have things I want to say.


http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _All_Liars is a policy lynch
viewtopic.php?p=6253470#p6253470 is a drunk policy lynch
viewtopic.php?p=6274021#p6274021 is a post about policy lynches in general and how they are not such a dirty thing
viewtopic.php?p=5907654#p5907654 Here is axle posting a hammer derp hammer policy lynch policy (it was game specific but I also have the policy it may be retroactively invoked in any game I play)(probably with the same safeguards (balance of power).)
So yeah I know of many specific instances of legitimate policy town motivated policy lynch stances.

is a scummy non specific mealy mouthed PL list that, can only have the intent of being able to jump on and off convenient lynches without the need to post reasoning for why they are scum or town at all.

and look Nero has been on and off the Thor lynch with never a statement that he considers Thor scummy.

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Post Post #4429  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:02 am

So Nero u are lynching Thor not for being scum but for hurting town...

Please enlighten as to how you have been more productive and helpful than Thor.

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Post Post #4430  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:06 am

no, I'm lynching Thor 'cause I'm compromising on someone who I think has done some scummy things.

My reads are better than Thor's though. :)
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Post Post #4431  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:19 am

In post 4325, The Fonz wrote:
In post 4313, TierShift wrote:Fonz what is your nero read?


Weak town read. See the above. I suspected him early D1, but he does get more purposeful, even if I didn't like the direction he took. I see no glaring contradictions or anything.

Because he's purposeful, he's town? And he doesn't contradict, so he's town?

That's not really trying to look at his alignment, is it?

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Post Post #4432  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:28 am

In post 4431, TierShift wrote:
In post 4325, The Fonz wrote:
In post 4313, TierShift wrote:Fonz what is your nero read?


Weak town read. See the above. I suspected him early D1, but he does get more purposeful, even if I didn't like the direction he took. I see no glaring contradictions or anything.

Because he's purposeful, he's town? And he doesn't contradict, so he's town?

That's not really trying to look at his alignment, is it?


How about you vote for Nero?

I can appreciate that Beast really is currently policy lynchable, (for failure to play and turning up opportunistically once?)

but I think Nero is significantly better than a policy lynch.

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Post Post #4433  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:32 am

In post 4430, Nero Cain wrote:no, I'm lynching Thor 'cause I'm compromising on someone who I think has done some scummy things.

[....]


really I found no evidence of that in your filter.
I especially did not find that it appeared to be your intent.

In post 4401, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4392, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4390, Nero Cain wrote:vote:Thor

Finally remembered that you still found me scummy, eh?


Sorry I missed it
@Thor
When did he say that?


I only saw
In post 4356, Nero Cain wrote:Me being willing to PL Thor 'cause I'm unsure on him

unsure
In post 4214, Nero Cain wrote:I mostly wanted you to claim

want you to claim

In post 4318, Nero Cain wrote:Just 'cause I'm not a fluff monkey like TSO, Thor or Axle

Thinks Thor is a fluff monkey... (is that inherently scummy, and are these people different when town... appears not to matter/be considered) (hence assume this is PL not alignment related)

In post 4121, Nero Cain wrote:Would pl
Thor


A way that is not too absurd to be considered that Nero can be curently trying and work out Thors alignment.
Spoiler: This spoiler contains Axle_Logic <open at own risk>
Ok so nero made this post.
In post 4318, Nero Cain wrote:This is my first game with Flubber. Him being easily mislynchable doesn't mean he's town here. I also don't think that Thor is an easy mislynch.

Nero does not think Thor is an easy mislynch.
If we assume that: Nero is town and not scum making a truthful heartfelt comment about how hard it has been to try and mislynch Thor...
and we assume that Nero is trying to PL thor for the policy reasons that Thor is a fluff monkey, and nero is unsure of him (null read)

If Nero succeeds in PLing Thor for those lame arsed policy reasons and Thor is not an easy mislynch then the fact that he succeeds must mean Thor is not being mislynched (because that isn't easy) and is thus actually scum!!!!
Thus Thor will think Thor is scum if and only if he PL's him for being an (unsure horrible fluff monkey) !!!!

Reading the above back I need to say two things. In trying desperately to find any semblance of Nero actually saying thor is scum I have lost contact with reality.
I am not currently drunk but I think I ought be, and if I get drunk I will stop posting as Thor PL's drunk posters. (I might even tend to scum read them and vote them, and that could be embarrassing as I also tend to scum read and vote self voters too.)
It is however a good thing I dont scum read and vote fluff monkeys or Id be in deep fluff monkey shit.

If you(reader) have saner way, that you think Nero is actually scum reading thor please tell me because I am already waist deep in fluff monkey shit.

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Post Post #4434  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:49 am

The tem "fluff monkey" is a term that I (and others, but isn't a common term I think) use to describe a play with a large post count. Here is an example. Is posting alot scummy? meh, its nullish. I think there's scum motivation in it and I know that I've lynched both Saki scum and Mastin scum for artificially inflating thier vote count.

In post 2587, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2585, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:I'm playing the way I am for a reason. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the main subject of Day 2.

In post 2581, Boonskiies wrote:This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the main points of discussion.


No on D1 one your claim was about your role being "the main subject of D2"

Boons 2581 was saying that...see....mods know what they are doing. When a mod makes a game with hoods they EXPECT hood talk and thats what he was saying. So this looks really misreppy.

^^^
that was the basis of my scumread on you.

In post 2593, AxleGreaser wrote:Because frankly its making you look scummy, as making baseless insults that put people down and denigrate their opinions is a scummy way to argue a point.

here is your OMGUS attack on me.

Earlier, you were arguing that MY attack on you was scummy.

So I asked

IF you called someone scum and they attack you back, would you think they are scum or town?


You told me that it depends on intent.

I asked you to explain my intent.

You then LIED and claimed that you never attacked me.

In post 4426, AxleGreaser wrote:I read that you habitually wanting to Pl lots of people, as per your reads list.

I have not pushed a single policy lynch. I have voted you, Tobylobby/Fonz, and Flubber. Those were all scumreads at the time of my vote. And all three were explained why I was voting. We are three days till deadline and its time to compromise. So I shouldn't vote someone that I'm suspicious of, why? So tell me wich pl did I push, if I did not push a pl then why are you claiming that I did?

In post 4428, AxleGreaser wrote:and look Nero has been on and off the Thor lynch with never a statement that he considers Thor scummy.

ok.

In post 850, Nero Cain wrote:So, I haven't really commented on the Thor/PV situation yet. TBH I skimmed over most of it. Ummmm...I got kind of a NY164 vibe. In that game I had argued that the size of the game/current site meta made it unlikely to be singleball. One of Nacho or CTD (both scum btw) had asked me to show them "proof". So yeah, Thor asking for proof from PV made me a lil' weary.


In post 1056, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1054, Thor665 wrote:Why? Do I need to convince you you're town?

no, I read fine but I want to see if you have a legit town read or if you are just appeasing me, but also didn't you have me as a somewhat scummy read? If so, what did I do to change that?


In post 1063, Nero Cain wrote:I'm asking you a very simple question Thor. I see no reason why you are acting out.


In post 1179, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1105, Scripten wrote:Thor v. Nero Cain looks weird. I'm not sure I'm following what Thor was doing where he told Nero that he was buddying him, and I'm not sure why Nero took what Thor said as reason to vote him. (Yes, I realize that buddying is a scum tactic. I don't think it follows that claiming to be buddying someone is also a scum tactic.)

Well, I don't really see a reason that Thor would not elaborate on why I'm townish. Explain the town motivation there?


dislike tier's asking boon to claim.
dislike gamr for similar reason. His "If it is multiball all you had to do was wait one day and you could of keeped it hidden from scum." is p silly. Scum already know if its mb or not.
still dislike the toby slot. Her claim that I was being "iffy" on my Csaro read and was scummy for that while being iffy herself is highly hypocritical. I also dislike fon'z "catchup" post being a bandwagon hop onto PV.
hephaestus, dave and muffin are my other scum reads.
maaayyyybbbeeee Thor. I'm pretty unsure on him.
maaayyybbbe scripten

this is a scum list, and golly Thor is on it.

In post 1202, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1200, goodmorning wrote:Who would have thought my vanity vote would spark some actual looking into Thor?

TBF, I think Thor is just extremely argumentative. My vote on him was more me being goofy than anything but I guess him not explaining his town read on me is rather silly.


In post 1355, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1317, goodmorning wrote:This is bad.

agree. No reason to not give other reads to help the town.


In post 1734, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1731, AxleGreaser wrote:If slap fight meant to you what it means to me I thought you should want to as well.

It doesn't. I'm calling it a slap fight just 'cause they are bitching back and forth. Of the two I think Thor is the scummier, but I also think its a bunch of noise. What is your current read on Thor?


In post 2587, Nero Cain wrote:Slandaar
Scripten
The Fonz
TierShif
Garmr
Muffin
IZ

maybe Axle
maybe Thor
^
is p much where I want to go today.

Another scum list, with Thor on it.

These posts are claiming that I am suspicious of Thor which is consistent with me having him on my pl list. You are claiming to have ISOed me and that you did not find any of these posts. I find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. Why are you once again lying?

In post 4426, AxleGreaser wrote:His D1 case on PereV was all sorts of horrible (but you only pointed that out on D2, didnt say so on D1, and never described what and how it was horrible)

We've already been over this so all I'll say is you are pushing schematics instead of an actual contradiction.
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Post Post #4435  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:55 am

In post 4365, goodmorning wrote:1-Shot JK is totally a Scum PR for when the Scum investigative finds a Town PR

Why did he use it n1 then?

Or are you saying he is lying about that?

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Post Post #4436  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:02 am

AND NOW Thor is getting all pissed 'cause I tried to move the game along by getting his claim out of the way. :igmeou:

Thor, who was your second biggest scumread on d1?
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Post Post #4437  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:10 am

In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:I have not pushed a single policy lynch.

pants on fire

In post 4393, Nero Cain wrote:Yours is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.

AXLE and TSO were defined most recently by you before that as policy lynches.

In post 4121, Nero Cain wrote:Would pl
Axle
T S O
Thor
The Fonz
beastcharizard

I thought that so astonishing i verified you meant it. and yep they are all PL's

and here is my summary of you doing nothing but wanting to PL thor
In post 4401, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4392, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4390, Nero Cain wrote:vote:Thor

Finally remembered that you still found me scummy, eh?


Sorry I missed it
@Thor
When did he say that?


I only saw
In post 4356, Nero Cain wrote:Me being willing to PL Thor 'cause I'm unsure on him

unsure
In post 4214, Nero Cain wrote:I mostly wanted you to claim

want you to claim

In post 4318, Nero Cain wrote:Just 'cause I'm not a fluff monkey like TSO, Thor or Axle

Thinks Thor is a fluff monkey... (is that inherently scummy, and are these people different when town... appears not to matter/be considered) (hence assume this is PL not alignment related)

In post 4121, Nero Cain wrote:Would pl
Thor


[..piece elided..]

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Post Post #4438  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:15 am

In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:These posts are claiming that I am suspicious of Thor which is consistent with me having him on my pl list. You are claiming to have ISOed me and that you did not find any of these posts. I find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. Why are you once again lying?



I stated when I looked

In post 4412, AxleGreaser wrote:His reads list explicitly did not include you as scummy, just (PLable)

since then to him you have been ,



As you did not call him scummy, that is an indication you do not find him scummy.

As ever since that list every time you have mentioned lynching Thor you did not talk about reasons for him being scummy exposes your actual intent.
Policy lynch Thor with no concern over whether he was scummy or not.

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Post Post #4439  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:16 am

gonna pull an Axle here...

In post 4437, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:I have not pushed a single policy lynch.

pants on fire

In post 4393, Nero Cain wrote:Yours is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.

AXLE and TSO were defined most recently by you before that as policy lynches.

lets just pretend that was pushing a pl. Its singular.

In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:In post 4426, AxleGreaser wrote:
I read that you habitually wanting to Pl lots of people, as per your reads list.

look who contradicted themselves!
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Post Post #4440  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:20 am

In post 4438, AxleGreaser wrote:I stated when I looked

bullshit. You lied. You lied about that, you lied about never attacking me. And another thing, if you think I'm so scummy TODAY for never calling Thor scummy. Why did you ignore that on d1? That is not fluid and makes absolutly no sense from town.

vote:Axle
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Post Post #4441  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:25 am

Axle is scum. I am 100% on this and the next 5 players that vote him get a free invention.
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Post Post #4442  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:25 am

In post 4439, Nero Cain wrote:gonna pull an Axle here...

In post 4437, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:I have not pushed a single policy lynch.

pants on fire

In post 4393, Nero Cain wrote:Yours is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.

AXLE and TSO were defined most recently by you before that as policy lynches.

lets just pretend that was pushing a pl. Its singular.

In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:In post 4426, AxleGreaser wrote:
I read that you habitually wanting to Pl lots of people, as per your reads list.

look who contradicted themselves!

nope, simply saying I did contradict myself doesn't actually show anything you know.

So you support Thor a policy lynch, unless hint hint one of your two other policy lynches (Axle TSO) pop up (what you really want wink wink)

or if but only if the Josh B wagon grows.... (hey you scum read that one, but didnt vote it when the wagon was a contender but then died for lack of support.

would you push the guy you say you actual have scum read on (Josh B) over people you say you merely have as policy lynches.... nope.

You apparently didn't prune enough out as you supporting multiple policy lynches is all here in what you quoted.

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Post Post #4443  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:27 am

In post 4441, Nero Cain wrote:Axle is scum. I am 100% on this and the next 5 players that vote him get a free invention.


be still my beating heart.
I am all a flutter.
Nearly tempted to self vote, so I can have an invention to go with the Brooklyn bridge that I am expecting in the post any day now.

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Post Post #4444  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:31 am

So, you wanna tell me

why you lied about never attacking me?
why you lied about me never suspecting Thor.
and why you never pushed me on d1 despite claiming that I'm doing the same thing today.

also why would town do any of these?
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Post Post #4445  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:39 am

In post 4440, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4438, AxleGreaser wrote:I stated when I looked

In post 4412, AxleGreaser wrote:His reads list explicitly did not include you as scummy, just (PLable)

since then to him you have been ,



bullshit. You lied. You lied about that, you lied about never attacking me. And another thing, if you think I'm so scummy TODAY for never calling Thor scummy. Why did you ignore that on d1? That is not fluid and makes absolutly no sense from town.

vote:Axle


dear post quote snipper ...the post you quoted contained the evidence that I stated the time range in which I looked.
I have modified how much of my post you quoted to show where Iput the evidence for the thing you claim is a lie. I dont actually know if you lied when you snipped that out and pretended it wasnt there. It seems like an incredibly dumb thing to do as either alignment.Other people will have to form their own judgement if they care. Personally i am much more persuaded about your alignment from your singular lack of interest in Thors alignment in recent times. Also your large focus on policy lynches.

I made that time frame explicit because although I realised that in looking between your last reads list (when thor was only PL (not in the scum) list and now) was the only relevant time to look for statements that he was scum and that was why you were voting him,
I thought I had better have it explicitly stated so I did.

You have yet to specify just when you think I Axle "lied about never attacking me". If you show it to me and actually discuss it it may be you are wrong and I never said that or you misunderstood.
Simply shouting he is scum 100% isn't really and argument. I do know it sometimes works, hopefully not today.

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Post Post #4446  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:46 am

We are just going to let Boon get away skot free? Pressing for a hammer vote when he could only vaguely remember the situation he talked about showing a complete lack of care or interest in the game and then when he gets votes he blows up because now he does care?

OK guys!

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Post Post #4447  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:52 am

In post 4426, AxleGreaser wrote:You asked about how to read situation when the person being question responds in what may be characterised as an OMGUS manner.
That does not match the above situation where you describe period when you initially questioned me.

This is you claiming that you never OMGUS attacked me.

You said, I was never suspicious of Thor, I proved you wrong. You can use some timeframe crap or whatever to backtract but the fact is that you lied.


but whatever.

I am really interested in the following: you are claiming that I was scummy today 'cause I have never suspected Thor. On d1 my vote was sitting on Thor. If you are claiming that I never suspected Thor why did you not push me for that yesterday? Or are you saying that I wasn't scummy yesterday 'cause I suspected Thor, if so, why was it unreasonable and scummy to still suspect Thor?
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Post Post #4448  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:54 am

In post 4444, Nero Cain wrote:So, you wanna tell me

why you lied about never attacking me?


Well nope I cant if I dont know what you mean. When and where do you claim I lied about never attacking you?

why you lied about me never suspecting Thor.

I didn't. As just shown I specified the time frame in which I looked at your posts.

and why you never pushed me on d1 despite claiming that I'm doing the same thing today.

Why never push you D1 I was busy doing more important to me things. (sorting out TSO and then garmr reads)
I did not claim you are doing the same thing today.

I did claim that if people wanted early scumminess they should ask fonz what he saw.

Indeed I claimed you did different things on the two days. Today you are calling the day 1 PereV Wagon all kinds of horrible whereas yesterday it was merely a wagon that did not sway you

also why would town do any of these?

I did the things I did do because I was hunting scum.
I did not do the things I did not do, but you have claimed I did (eg not specify when), because I didn't do them.

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Post Post #4449  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:59 am

@Slandar-sempai I do not think anyone is interested in a Boon lynch today

What do u think of the current situation ?

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