NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #4432 (isolation #600) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:28 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4431, TierShift wrote:
In post 4325, The Fonz wrote:
In post 4313, TierShift wrote:Fonz what is your nero read?


Weak town read. See the above. I suspected him early D1, but he does get more purposeful, even if I didn't like the direction he took. I see no glaring contradictions or anything.

Because he's purposeful, he's town? And he doesn't contradict, so he's town?

That's not really trying to look at his alignment, is it?


How about you vote for Nero?

I can appreciate that Beast really is currently policy lynchable, (for failure to play and turning up opportunistically once?)

but I think Nero is significantly better than a policy lynch.
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Post Post #4433 (isolation #601) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:32 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4430, Nero Cain wrote:no, I'm lynching Thor 'cause I'm compromising on someone who I think has done some scummy things.

[....]


really I found no evidence of that in your filter.
I especially did not find that it appeared to be your intent.

In post 4401, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4392, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4390, Nero Cain wrote:
vote:Thor

Finally remembered that you still
found me scummy
, eh?


Sorry I missed it
@Thor

When did he say that?


I only saw
In post 4356, Nero Cain wrote:Me being willing to PL Thor 'cause I'm unsure on him

unsure

In post 4214, Nero Cain wrote:I mostly wanted you to claim

want you to claim


In post 4318, Nero Cain wrote:Just 'cause I'm not a fluff monkey like TSO, Thor or Axle

Thinks Thor is a
fluff monkey
... (is that inherently scummy, and are these people different when town... appears not to matter/be considered) (hence assume this is PL not alignment related)

In post 4121, Nero Cain wrote:Would
pl

Thor


A way that is not too absurd to be considered that Nero can be curently trying and work out Thors alignment.
Spoiler: This spoiler contains Axle_Logic <open at own risk>
Ok so nero made this post.
In post 4318, Nero Cain wrote:This is my first game with Flubber. Him being easily mislynchable doesn't mean he's town here. I also don't think that Thor is an easy mislynch.

Nero does not think Thor is an easy mislynch.
If we assume that: Nero is town and not scum making a truthful heartfelt comment about how hard it has been to try and mislynch Thor...
and we assume that Nero is trying to PL thor for the policy reasons that Thor is a fluff monkey, and nero is unsure of him (null read)

If Nero succeeds in PLing Thor for those lame arsed policy reasons and Thor is not an easy mislynch then the fact that he succeeds must mean Thor is not being mislynched (because that isn't easy) and is thus actually scum!!!!
Thus Thor will think Thor is scum if and only if he PL's him for being an (unsure horrible fluff monkey) !!!!

Reading the above back I need to say two things. In trying desperately to find any semblance of Nero actually saying thor is scum I have lost contact with reality.
I am not currently drunk but I think I ought be, and if I get drunk I will stop posting as Thor PL's drunk posters. (I might even tend to scum read them and vote them, and that could be embarrassing as I also tend to scum read and vote self voters too.)
It is however a good thing I dont scum read and vote fluff monkeys or Id be in deep fluff monkey shit.

If you(reader) have saner way, that you think Nero is actually
scum reading
thor please tell me because I am already waist deep in fluff monkey shit.
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Post Post #4437 (isolation #602) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:10 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:I have not pushed a single policy lynch.

pants on fire


In post 4393, Nero Cain wrote:Yours is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.

AXLE and TSO were defined most recently by you before that as policy lynches.

In post 4121, Nero Cain wrote:Would pl
Axle
T S O
Thor
The Fonz
beastcharizard

I thought that so astonishing i verified you meant it. and yep they are all PL's

and here is my summary of you doing nothing but wanting to PL thor
In post 4401, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4392, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4390, Nero Cain wrote:
vote:Thor

Finally remembered that you still
found me scummy
, eh?


Sorry I missed it
@Thor

When did he say that?


I only saw
In post 4356, Nero Cain wrote:
Me being willing to PL Thor
'cause I'm unsure on him

unsure

In post 4214, Nero Cain wrote:I mostly wanted you to claim

want you to claim


In post 4318, Nero Cain wrote:Just 'cause I'm not a fluff monkey like TSO, Thor or Axle

Thinks Thor is a
fluff monkey
... (is that inherently scummy, and are these people different when town... appears not to matter/be considered) (hence assume this is PL not alignment related)

In post 4121, Nero Cain wrote:Would
pl

Thor


[..piece elided..]
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Post Post #4438 (isolation #603) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:15 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:These posts are claiming that I am suspicious of Thor which is consistent with me having him on my pl list. You are claiming to have ISOed me and that you did not find any of these posts. I find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. Why are you once again lying?



I stated when I looked

In post 4412, AxleGreaser wrote:His
reads list explicitly did not include you as scummy
, just (PLable)

since then
to him you have been ,



As you did not call him scummy, that is an indication you do not find him scummy.

As ever since that list every time you have mentioned lynching Thor you did not talk about reasons for him being scummy exposes your actual intent.
Policy lynch Thor with no concern over whether he was scummy or not.
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Post Post #4442 (isolation #604) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:25 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4439, Nero Cain wrote:gonna pull an Axle here...

In post 4437, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:I have not pushed a single policy lynch.

pants on fire


In post 4393, Nero Cain wrote:Yours is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.

AXLE and TSO were defined most recently by you before that as policy lynches.

lets just pretend that was pushing a pl. Its singular.

In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:In post 4426, AxleGreaser wrote:
I read that you
habitually
wanting to Pl lots of people, as per your reads list.

look who contradicted themselves!

nope, simply saying I did contradict myself doesn't actually show anything you know.

So you support Thor a policy lynch, unless hint hint one of your two other policy lynches (Axle TSO) pop up (what you really want wink wink)

or if but only if the Josh B wagon grows.... (hey you scum read that one, but didnt vote it when the wagon was a contender but then died for lack of support.

would you push the guy you say you actual have scum read on (Josh B) over people you say you merely have as policy lynches.... nope.

You apparently didn't prune enough out as you supporting multiple policy lynches is all here in what you quoted.
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Post Post #4443 (isolation #605) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:27 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4441, Nero Cain wrote:Axle is scum. I am 100% on this and the next 5 players that vote him get a free invention.


be still my beating heart.
I am all a flutter.
Nearly tempted to self vote, so I can have an invention to go with the Brooklyn bridge that I am expecting in the post any day now.
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Post Post #4445 (isolation #606) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:39 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4440, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4438, AxleGreaser wrote:
I stated when I looked

In post 4412, AxleGreaser wrote:His
reads list explicitly did not include you as scummy
, just (PLable)

since then
to him you have been ,



bullshit. You lied. You lied about that, you lied about never attacking me. And another thing, if you think I'm so scummy TODAY for never calling Thor scummy. Why did you ignore that on d1? That is not fluid and makes absolutly no sense from town.

vote:Axle


dear post quote snipper ...the post you quoted contained the evidence that I stated the time range in which I looked.
I have modified how much of my post you quoted to show where Iput the evidence for the thing you claim is a lie. I dont actually know if you lied when you snipped that out and pretended it wasnt there. It seems like an incredibly dumb thing to do as either alignment.Other people will have to form their own judgement if they care. Personally i am much more persuaded about your alignment from your singular lack of interest in Thors alignment in recent times. Also your large focus on policy lynches.

I made that time frame explicit because although I realised that in looking between your last reads list (when thor was only PL (not in the scum) list and now) was the only relevant time to look for statements that he was scum and that was why you were voting him,
I thought I had better have it explicitly stated so I did.

You have yet to specify just when you think I Axle
"lied about never attacking me"
. If you show it to me and actually discuss it it may be you are wrong and I never said that or you misunderstood.
Simply shouting he is scum 100% isn't really and argument. I do know it sometimes works, hopefully not today.
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Post Post #4448 (isolation #607) » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:54 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4444, Nero Cain wrote:So, you wanna tell me

why you lied about never attacking me?


Well nope I cant if I dont know what you mean. When and where do you claim I lied about never attacking you?


why you lied about me never suspecting Thor.

I didn't. As just shown I specified the time frame in which I looked at your posts.


and why you never pushed me on d1 despite claiming that I'm doing the same thing today.

Why never push you D1 I was busy doing more important to me things. (sorting out TSO and then garmr reads)
I did not claim you are doing the same thing today.

I did claim that if people wanted early scumminess they should ask fonz what he saw.

Indeed I claimed you did different things on the two days. Today you are calling the day 1 PereV Wagon all kinds of horrible whereas yesterday it was merely a wagon that did not sway you

also why would town do any of these?

I did the things I did do because I was hunting scum.
I did not do the things I did not do, but you have claimed I did (eg not specify when), because I didn't do them.
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Post Post #4452 (isolation #608) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:08 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4447, Nero Cain wrote:You said, I was never suspicious of Thor, I proved you wrong.


Nope I didnt say that, you didnt prove that as most especially you never showed that I had said it.

Your attemtp even creatively edited out the text that Post then reposted in big green letters specifying the time frame in which i had looked.

Also as stated it is not all that important to you intent that sometime a long time ago you indicated suspicion of thor
Then posted reads list that did not list thor as scummy but only as PL
Then posted a number of times saying you would PL thor and didnt mention scumminess at all.

That is what shows intent. Which is why that is what I examined.
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Post Post #4455 (isolation #609) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:31 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4450, Slandaar wrote:I need to go back a few pages but seriously what are you two doing?

Can we please stop messing about.

GM/Garmr/Dave/Boon.

Everyone just pick one and vote then be happy because you have made a good vote. If by tomorrow you are on the smallest wagon of the 4 then you move to one of the other 3. Next day to one of the 2. Then a lynch will be achieved by deadline and the lynch will be a good one.

Thank you all for your co-operation in these testing times.


Errr you first?

Well thats a plan but my list was GM/GarmrDave/Nero

and you ran away (even though you already had picked one from your list and voted another.
Garmr wagon actually lost momentum, of the going backwards variety (Shiro didn't come back either)

So I jumped to Dave... becuase meh
but the Nero wagon started to roll Boonskiies, TSO, ....
and Nero said
In post 4306, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4304, T S O wrote:
vote: nero cain

stop playing against your wincon.


and I took that as message from God. So I stopped possibly playing against my wincon by meh voting, and I sheeped
Boonsikiies && TSO
by naked voting Nero !!!!!!!!!!
I held out for a whole 51 minutes before I posted reasons. (I am in a 144 step program for compulsive reason posters)(My sponsor tells me I am at step -1 :( )
and then shit happened.

At least some of it looks alignment indicative to me.

So yes i am ready to stop messing about and have been for a long time.

I am voting a guy I think is clearly very scummy. It sis not wagin that failed to gain traction for days on end there is areal chance people will vote for it.

I don't like your Boon wagon. Not voting it anytime soon.

Now what?
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Post Post #4458 (isolation #610) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:50 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4454, Nero Cain wrote:

Nope I didnt say that
, you didnt prove that as most especially you
never showed that I had said it.

Well lets show it!

In post 4433, AxleGreaser wrote:really I found no evidence of that in your filter.


In post 4437, AxleGreaser wrote:and here is my summary of you doing nothing but wanting to PL thor


In post 4438, AxleGreaser wrote:As you did not call him scummy, that is an indication you do not find him scummy.


and that's just 3 quotes!
[/quote]

Dear town please go look at those three quotes especially go look at the last one (that one explictly states in the words he cut out the time fame I was talking about.)
As a deliberate misrep this is about as blatant as it gets.
Indeed that is the post where I am explaining to Nero that I had in fact specified when I looked.

The first two are me quoting the same post where I did the analysis. That post has in the thread shortly after it the post where i define where I looked and just recently i explained why that is the logical and alignment indicative place to look

Spoiler: The three quotes
In post 4438, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:These posts are claiming that I am suspicious of Thor which is consistent with me having him on my pl list. You are claiming to have ISOed me and that you did not find any of these posts. I find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. Why are you once again lying?



I stated when I looked

In post 4412, AxleGreaser wrote:His
reads list explicitly did not include you as scummy
, just (PLable)

since then
to him you have been ,



As you did not call him scummy, that is an indication you do not find him scummy.

As ever since that list every time you have mentioned lynching Thor you did not talk about reasons for him being scummy exposes your actual intent.
Policy lynch Thor with no concern over whether he was scummy or not.


and both quote
and as i have pointed out copious times I stated where that post had looked through the thread from (the alignment indicative place)
I looked from Nero last reads list right up to that point in the thread.
I got all the reasons Nero had wanted to lynch thor since he had rated Thor as a policy and not a scummy lynch.
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Post Post #4459 (isolation #611) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:52 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4456, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4455, AxleGreaser wrote:So I stopped possibly playing against my wincon by meh voting

I see you are claiming that your wincon is to lynch town.



meh voting was not going to make stuff happen.

So no you are again just making shit up.
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Post Post #4461 (isolation #612) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:54 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4451, Slandaar wrote:I am a very good captain and will save the day.


In post 4457, Slandaar wrote:You got him Nero! High five!

Lets lynch Boon.


Sweet dreams (to me) steer the boat well captain.
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Post Post #4462 (isolation #613) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:59 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4460, Slandaar wrote:
In post 4455, AxleGreaser wrote:Errr you first?

Well thats a plan but my list was GM/GarmrDave/Nero

I am following the plan. I am voting Boon, his name is listed, I shall move votes if I have to tomorrow.


Ok I am following the plan too but I have marginally different list, mine has one guy not on your list just like yours has one not on mine.
And in the meantime do we talk about I chosen scummiest most likely to get lynched person?
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Post Post #4464 (isolation #614) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:10 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

Sorry that should have been obvious
VOTE: Davesaz
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Post Post #4466 (isolation #615) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:22 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4465, Shiro wrote:I dont get it nobody thinks beast is a bad lynch. Most see him at worst as average So why not ? Nobody agrees af anything othrr than beast isnt such a bsd choice. So why not ?

@Thor If beast wagon does go anywhere I am voting Dave. Why beast first ? Cause that how I feel. Both lean scum for me

@Slandar-sempai would u consider beast ?

P.Edit

I see kk slander if none. I am giving beast wagon a day before leaving it though.


He is not a good lynch.
You don't have a why, you really ought be trying for a good lynch yeah?

Accepting an effectively random chance of scum is a town losing strategy in most setups I know best from other sites.
Pretty sure town has to do significantly better than random to win.
People wont have alignment indicative reasons for voting beast.
Its bad from where I stand.
Bottom line:
If I wind up compromise voting beast today somehow, the odds of me playing a game again soon go down, that is not mafia.
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Post Post #4514 (isolation #616) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:32 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@JoshB please clarify. (question is at the end of the spoiler.)
Spoiler: currently only curiosity and accountability
In post 4505, Josh_B wrote:I don't have fully developed context of everyone's position in the game yet. I am starting to get a better understanding of how the thor/GM situation started. And after Thor's recent post I'm starting to think that Thor's position is more OMGUS on her part.

Axle's position seems more organic. If I'm going to point fingers at the GM wagon (that has interest and not votes) It seems like Axle is more the proprietor of GM scum than Thor. I think you would know that though, and point the finger that way instead.


I am confused about what the above means in terms of alignment.

Are you suggesting that, when you point fingers at the Gm wagon you are pointing fingers at who is scum on it? hence you are pointing at me?

I am confused because, my best guess is that (If I was an outsider looking at this instead of a participant)
I too would think my play more organic and the read on GM to thus be genuine and based on reading the thread. So when Gm flips scum, Axle wasnt bussing. And if on the less likely than random chance GM flips town, Axle was mistaken.
(but hey I have read my PM so...I am biased... a lot.)

So your observations match mine (tick) but I cant really tell for sure what your conclusion is.

I get the sense, but you don't appear to have said, that you are evaluating the GM wagon for finger pointing purposes, under the assumption GM is town.

@Josh B

Please clarify what pointing fingers means, and whether or not it is under the assumption ... if GM flips town/scum (or is independent of that).
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Post Post #4515 (isolation #617) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:57 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4479, Thor665 wrote:For the record, because no one else was apparently willing to read (skim) it and offer a thought.

For the record, I have done so far and will continue to read everything and its context several times. So thats +2
If nothing else:
yeah but now TSO and Boonskiies have something to work with if they are town and really want their wagon lynched. :)
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Post Post #4518 (isolation #618) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:17 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Josh B
Spoiler: further clarification
In post 4505, Josh_B wrote:I can't vote everyone calling for a GM wagon at once, but dave, slandaar, scripten, and Axel are more interesting to me in that situation than Thor is right now.


If I read that correctly,
Ok this sounds like, you are saying you are suspicious of people who have indicated a scum read on GM but are not voting it... and that includes me...

I find that interesting in my case due to the large obvious facts.
So I pushed TSO D1
On D2 I have been interested in Garmr/Josh Good Morning Dave and more recently Nero (maybe in that time order IIRC)
and you have a problem with me (and my alignment)(more interesting) because I am not voting one of them? (I am not a quadruple voter)

Is that what you are saying?
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Post Post #4536 (isolation #619) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:00 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4524, Josh_B wrote:
In post 4514, AxleGreaser wrote:@Josh B
Please clarify what pointing fingers means, and whether or not it is under the assumption ... if GM flips town/scum (or is independent of that).


pointing fingers=FOS. I am scum hunting off the Invisible GM wagon. I just came out of a GM scum game, and even though I got hosed by town reading her in that game, I can already see huge differences in her playstyle from that one to this and I'm giving it a solid town read.
I'm including the fact that the wagon itself is made up largely of indirect claims and very little direct votes, which is also indicative of town slot.



Ah Ok, well in that case here let me help, by volunteering information.
Spoiler: info for Josh
yeah I scum read the slot. But my vote being elsewhere is because I believe them more likely to flip scum.
was a vote with a question
The reason was "The above + Tone(927) + ..."
which means the question is reason 1 (and like ingredients on packets a majorest one)
Tone is reference to the emptiness of the GM scum read on Thor. (It had a bad tone to me :) )
and unspecified things
AKA answer the damn question
Truthfully rated anon answering GM as a better lynch than PereV (who has flipped town))

I have done things such as wonder about other peoples opinions of GM and how they got them. (but that is primarily alignment indicative of the other people...)

Started this push here which centers around "explain why on D2 it has details and on D1, you didnt have any "
after a while GM posted this over exaggerated bullshit

In this post I demonstrated a distinct lack of substantive reads (pretty clear on) on exactly the people GM had claimed to have them
then i got distracted by your slot fora while
went back to demonstrating GM is saying one thing about providing reasons then doing another.

In post 3485, AxleGreaser wrote:
That puts lie to this claim
In post 3400, goodmorning wrote:Besides which I made clear that if anyone had any questions about anyone then all they had to do was ask and they should receive.

Dave asked what he received was your
annoyance
and no real answer.

It goes on for a bit, but I dont think i got much further than making it abundantly clear GM is not posting reasons for reads and is unwilling to do so. (as per dave's interaction)


In post 3782, goodmorning wrote:Sort of had a vague thought - wonder how many read Axle posts still?

GM has explicitly adopted a stance of treating my posts with ignore
In post 3953, goodmorning wrote:This is why I'm not talking to Axle anymore.

Presumably he knows my alignment or has no more need to find out, and does not care enough to let me work out his by being cooperative.


Also the indirect claims, from me are due to having better people to flip first. GMs reliance on "Oh I re read and changed my mind", and vague reads based on "a dash tone and a bit of meta there" are easily confusable with bad/IDGAF approach to the game. So GM for me is not in a lynch this first category. However GM still needs discussing as major(maybe only consistent) force behind a bad wagon.
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Post Post #4537 (isolation #620) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:20 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4532, Flubbernugget wrote:I don't understand the issue with having a gut read on tone.


not sure what specific issue you are talking about...
Thor recently said Gm had gut read instead of a tone one.
GM retorted he hadnt had a gut read ...

Also oopsie (in recent post I mentioned stuff that actually was read on TSO.
Not however substantively different to
In post 927, goodmorning wrote:On Thor is mostly a tone-based read as I think I've made clear. I don't expect anyone to believe/follow me and I'm fine with that (to all others who asked).



and my problem with that tone based read... is that seemed like rpetty thin read to park GM to park himself D1 while letting the PereV wagon on a towny run to completion.
For person with a scum rad on the primary driver, it didn't feel like towny way to play.

However, on D1 perhaps it possible there is not single posts Gm can point to and say specific things.
D2 cures that difficulty as on D2 once the PereV lynch has gone through, now GM has specific things to say about D1 and mentions specific posts.
It feels all rather too convenient.

But to me not as scummy, hence likely to flip scum, as the people I have been voting today.
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Post Post #4548 (isolation #621) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:51 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4547, davesaz wrote:And when i flip town it will tell you nothing.


I dont know what it will tell us when you flip scum. But it wont be tied to an overly simplistic VCA.
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Post Post #4552 (isolation #622) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:26 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4545, Josh_B wrote:you should be voting Dave with me. These...


In post 4464, AxleGreaser wrote:Sorry that should have been obvious
VOTE: Davesaz


???
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Post Post #4553 (isolation #623) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:51 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4512, Aegor wrote:[1]AxleGreaser:


@Mod
The name voting me is nero?


@captain, errm the ship seems to be running into ice berg Nero anyway?

[
2
3]Nero Cain: Boonskiies, T S O, TierShift

If I went back to voting the slot, and it is in my list of eminently lynchable slots, it would be equal lead wagon?
are you sure its not, in your list?
Spoiler: You could consider these recent compelling arguments
In post 4520, T S O wrote:is anyone actually townreading nero after that jump on axle

like fucking really

In post 4539, Boonskiies wrote:
In post 4520, T S O wrote:is anyone actually townreading nero after that jump on axle

like fucking really



Freaking seriously...there's no possible way Nero's town.
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Post Post #4557 (isolation #624) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:36 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In the discussion below you had asked me "would you think they are scum or town?"
and it was a question about how you scum read or don't someone
OMGUSSing
you when you question them.
There is a
questioner
and a
responder
we are talking about how and what criteria you use to assess the
responder
who is
OMGUSSing

Spoiler: What we had discussed
In post 4426, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4421, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4418, AxleGreaser wrote:

I thought you were scummy for claiming that Boons contradicted himself, when he didn't. Your reaction was to start questioning me and treating me like a scum read, which is the definition of a OMGUS attack. Yes, I know that OMGUS does come from town but it also comes from scum and I think its hard to tell the difference between the two. IF you called someone scum and they attack you back, would you think they are scum or town?

Yes and no. As it depends on intent. I have developed strong town reads on people because they attacked me. (If they are town they have to try and work out my alignment somehow)
I have developed strong scum reads on people because they neither attacked me, nor worked out my alignment, but somehow just knew.
As for your point I frequently check out people who are scum reading me, one advantage of doing it at that time is they have no excuse to run away and not talk to me.

k. Explain what you think my intent was.


When?

You asked about how to read situation when the person being question responds in what may be characterised as an OMGUS manner.
That does not match the above situation where you describe period when you initially questioned me.



You asked, a vague question about a not exactly specified event.
I point out the situations dont match.

And they do not match, the previous discussion had been about how to scum read an
OMOGUSSing responder
, but you now appear to be asking that I thus give you a read on a
Questioner


It has taken me a while to sort this out as you post a big fat wall and made no mark or distinction where this points ends.
With my snipping of your post I aim to make what you meant clearer.
If you claim it is not what you meant you will have to explain.

Spoiler: Here is where you made it clearER.
In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:
[.........stuff.......]
^^^
that was the basis of my scumread on you.

In post 2593, AxleGreaser wrote:Because frankly its making you look scummy, as making baseless insults that put people down and denigrate their opinions is a scummy way to argue a point.

here is your OMGUS attack on me.

Earlier, you were arguing that MY attack on you was scummy.

So I asked

IF you called someone scum and they attack you back, would you think they are scum or town?


You told me that it depends on intent.

I asked you to explain my intent.

You then
LIED
and claimed that you never attacked me.

[... more stuff that TBMK is on a different topic ...]



Also, I probably do disagree that when responding to you attacking me that I "
OMGUSed
" you.
When I use that word, I use it when the response is based on the Logic OMG you are so bad to suspect *****ME***** that you must be scum.
The wiki has these words "voting for someone primarily because they voted for you" and the primarily because is for me important.
I am pretty sure, I just don't OMGUS. I look for intent. I know people can make mistakes and think I am scum. I push back to either find out if its genuine, town attack, or to make it easier for the thread to see that it is not genuine.
Here is me testing the genuineness of you. Deal with it.

I do find people scummy when they attack me, scummily, thats not quite OMGUS as I use it. (or as I see the spirit of the wikis use of it)
I do also find people very towny when they attack me, but do it as town for town reasons.

I don't as it would be stupid beyond belief claim that at the time you are describing I didn't find your actions/style a bit scum motivated.
It was IIRC a terribly strong feeling/read at that time, if as it appears it is part of an enduring trend then that is another matter.
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Post Post #4558 (isolation #625) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:39 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

EBWOP
fsck
In post 4557, AxleGreaser wrote:It was IIRC
not
a terribly strong feeling/read at that time, if as it appears it is part of an enduring trend then that is another matter.
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Post Post #4559 (isolation #626) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:54 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4555, Nero Cain wrote:If you won't listen to me, listen to him
<Thor>
.


I do find it intriguing that you want to policy Lynch Thor for being ...
(actually i am not sure what specific reason you have, but usually to be PL'd even vaguely like you are suggesting the guy has to be useless.)

yet here you are asking me to listen to the guy playing so badly, that you want to PL him...

Also as you did some long time ago before you put him on your PL list, have a scummish read on him of some sort.

Why would you trust what he says, and his opinion, and then also expect me too?

I dont really care what Thor says,
its a demonstrable fact that you were not referring to Thor as scummy in the period since when you listed him as a PL lynch not as most likely to flip scum lynch.
That is not you trying to lynch scum.

This post does have you using language that refers to Thors as a viable wagon, indicating there is compromise involved.
BUT <<<
(and thats the big BUT)

The other wagons you hypothesise about being able to run... TSO Axle and JoshB
Two out of three of those are also on your PL list. That is not you resorting to those as a compromise that is you actively pushing them ahead of your actual scum reads.
And Josh B...<who is on your scum list> you had chance to vote him but would not compromise off your smaller going nowhere wagon onto the larger one....
In post 4393, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4391, Thor665 wrote:i was pushing people to advance the wagon enough so I could get the claim out of the way - forcing both wagon accontability *and* a claim.

So...you wanted to get the claim out of the way and so did I but I am some how scummy for wanting the same thing you did?

Yours is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.
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Post Post #4560 (isolation #627) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:57 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4554, beastcharizard wrote:So no one hammered Thor? I am confused.


The following is not a hammer vote it is a fake claim to be a double voter...

In post 4176, reinoe wrote:
@MOD:

ACTIVATE MY DOUBLE VOTE

VOTE: thor
Let's not wait for his fake-claim.


So no thor is not hammered you need to play. At least enough that the people voting you can feel good about doing something useful instead of demanding that you play.

Pls?
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Post Post #4563 (isolation #628) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:02 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4556, Nero Cain wrote:You should help me lynch Axle or Tier.


Apart from vote you recently is there something specific Tier has done that moved him up to one of your top two, most likely to flip scum?

There would seem to be lot of work required to get Tier lynched, I don't recall a recent wagon/vote on him.
That looks little more like posturing than an actual intent to get Tier lynched because you think he is scum
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Post Post #4570 (isolation #629) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:25 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4565, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4557, AxleGreaser wrote:You asked, a vague question about a not exactly specified event.

no. Its not vauge, its what happened.


Th bit i cur out is not the vague question.

This was the vague question
Spoiler: The vague question
In post 4426, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4421, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4418, AxleGreaser wrote:

I thought you were scummy for claiming that Boons contradicted himself, when he didn't. Your reaction was to start questioning me and treating me like a scum read, which is the definition of a OMGUS attack. Yes, I know that OMGUS does come from town but it also comes from scum and I think its hard to tell the difference between the two. IF you called someone scum and they attack you back, would you think they are scum or town?

Yes and no. As it depends on intent. I have developed strong town reads on people because they attacked me. (If they are town they have to try and work out my alignment somehow)
I have developed strong scum reads on people because they neither attacked me, nor worked out my alignment, but somehow just knew.
As for your point I frequently check out people who are scum reading me, one advantage of doing it at that time is they have no excuse to run away and not talk to me.

k. Explain what you think my intent was.


When?
[.........]


and it is vague because it did specify when you wanted me to comment on your intent.
It was vague becuase it appeared to be asking me about a time when you had been the
questioner
and i had been the
responder
and we had just been talking about how i would evaluate the scumminess of a responder.
I pointed out that discrepancy and you jump to "he LIED"

Now it is true that town make that kind of mistake (jump to wrong conclusions) all the time, scum tend to do it more as they are not looking for the truth of whetehr or not i am scummy but are looking to see if they can plausibly jump to "he LIED"
You jumping to that conclusion that is not supported by the facts looks a bit scummy to me.

Your earlier consistent pushes on players who you found PL material without them being your most likely to flip scum candidates, That speaks to me of an intent to find lynch today, not find scum.



You started calling me scummy for attacking you, that is EXACTLY what an OMGUS attack is. What exactly did you find scummy other than just being angry that I attacked you?

As i have never (IIRC) before actually said I dont really believe any piush i made on you was OMGUS.
and as we have still not sorted out your false claims about me lying.

changing the subject is not appropriate.

I mean after all you are 100% convinced I am scum based on
In post 4444, Nero Cain wrote:So, you wanna tell me

why you lied about never attacking me?
why you lied about me never suspecting Thor.

and why you never pushed me on d1 despite claiming that I'm doing the same thing today.

also why would town do any of these?


and I have shown the two crossed out ones to be literally false. And the authority you appealed to Thor, noticed you snipping post to make it look like i said things that were clearly not the intent of the post you snipped them from.

If your 100% case has substance you need to back those points up.

As for the third point. At no time did i claim everything you did yesterday is the same as everything you did today.
The differences that exist will be one of reasons, I responded differently. Another will be prioritisation of my time.
I already posted at least as many words and posts as is reasonable. (most people appear to think too many)
There will also, (as I recall it,) have been no time/space to get to you yesterday.
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Post Post #4572 (isolation #630) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:50 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4571, Nero Cain wrote:Are you a Yates alt? This is like his play to a T. He'd whine about things and when proven wrong he'd keep arguing and ask me to quote and requote him...


given that I just showed you were wrong and you have just unvoted your 100% scum read...

I think you might be slightly more than gilding the lilly here...

and nope I am not the alt of any one. I played newbie from scratch /in ... ergo.

Spoiler: Ahh I see. it is slander

link to who yates was
Yates and all alts have been permabanned for secretly joining the same game with two accounts and lying repeatedly to site staff about his behavior.
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Post Post #4576 (isolation #631) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:40 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4566, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4559, AxleGreaser wrote:Also as you did some long time ago before you put him on your PL list, have a scummish read on him of some sort.

If you are now claiming that I DID scumread Thor, why do you think it was unreasonable of me to still minorly suspect him and be willing to lynch him?


I claim and always have, that between when you listed Thor as not in your scum read list and was in your PL list.
That while pursuing thor

I only saw (<<<<<<<<< NOTE THIS even if there were others I missed them)
In post 4356, Nero Cain wrote:Me being willing to PL Thor 'cause I'm unsure on him

unsure

In post 4214, Nero Cain wrote:I mostly wanted you to claim

want you to claim


In post 4318, Nero Cain wrote:Just 'cause I'm not a fluff monkey like TSO, Thor or Axle

Thinks Thor is a
fluff monkey
... (is that inherently scummy, and are these people different when town... appears not to matter/be considered) (hence assume this is PL not alignment related)

In post 4121, Nero Cain wrote:Would
pl

Thor


That is lots and lots of focus on lynching people who are not your scum reads.
There is no mention of we need to compromise, and that you are lynching anyone less than your preferred lynch.
I find a singular lack of you pursuing people you regarded as scum in that period.

Here is you for instacen definign what wagons you are interested in
In post 4393, Nero Cain wrote:
[....]
Yours
<thor>
is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.


3 out of for of them are in your PL list.
*hint hint* implies one of those is what you really want.
But surely youd want wagons on your scum reads to pop up? Surely if they are scum reads, because they are scummy, a wagon might pop up?

That is a singular and a large lack of interest in pursuing a lynch on people you actually previously claimed to find scummy.
The only one that you previously found scummy, is aJosh B wagon... and are you pushing it?
Nope
You will only push it if it grows..

That ^^^^^^^^ is a ridiculously scummy set of play.


When we were arguing last night it was early morning here, I MAY have unintentionally misrepped you BUT I think that whole time frame think is junk.

I would also like you to explain why (IYO) it was silly of me to feel like scumIZ was whiteknighting you and then think you were town/not scum with Iz?


Your words suggest you were default reading me as town. Whiteknighting
derp town
.
Not protecting a scummy player, justifying derp play, but
derp town
.

If you are scum that is you slipping that you know I am town.
Spoiler: My original question and neros actual post
In post 4157, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4151, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4149, Izariael wrote:
In post 4146, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4141, Boonskiies wrote:I plan to get to Lylo on this, because everything I said makes sense.


Scum have to get past lylo to win.
Why if you are town are you planning that town will ever be at lylo
?
It may all make sense to you. Maybe not to everyone else though.

Boon play the game not just your purposeful VI meta.


I really like the thought process of this post. Axle may be noisy in thread, but gems like this give me the impression that he isn't scum.

whiteknight the derp town more.

(as no one was wking boon there)

How do you know the derp is town?

If the Derp is known to you to be town (and you are town), why cant that just be a read by another towny?

As you seem quite convinced the derp is town, whats the white knighting protecting from?
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Post Post #4577 (isolation #632) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:52 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4574, Nero Cain wrote:

In post 2593, AxleGreaser wrote:Because frankly its making you look scummy, as making baseless insults that put people down and denigrate their opinions is a scummy way to argue a point.

^
that is you attacking me.


actually no, that was me slapping you with your own wet fish.

Here is your wet fish
In post 2586, Nero Cain wrote::facepalm:

can't tell if Axle is scum or dumb.


It is a wet fish as you dont even quite specify what you mean is scum or dumb. (baseless)
and this is just a fact

Because frankly its making you look scummy, as making baseless insults that put people down and denigrate their opinions is a scummy way to argue a point.

the fact that, that fact above and your previous quoted behaviour make you look badtm is not my fault nor problem.

If you don't want to look bad for chucking around insults that have no link to facts then don't do it.

FYI: The intent of that statement was not purely to hunt scum or advance my wincon, but to point out what you were doing. I thought you ought stop, no matter what your alignment was.
How you stopped or responded might well then be alignment indicative.

Sig chnage: Now you might get what this one means. "When you look into a still calm pool, it is not the pool that looks back.": Axle
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Post Post #4579 (isolation #633) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:59 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4575, Nero Cain wrote:you are also simultaneously calling me scummy for not pushing Thor

You'd have to show what you interpret as me doing that. (you know give me link back up your claim with facts....)

but also saying that I'm scummy for pushing policy lynches over my scum reads. This seems dammed if I do, dammed if I don't.


Yes pushing policy lynches at this time over scum reads is to me rather inherently scummy.
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Post Post #4580 (isolation #634) » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:11 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4578, Nero Cain wrote:Would you stop pretending like I didn't say this.

In post 2587, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2585, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:
I'm playing the way I am for a reason
. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the main subject of Day 2.

In post 2581, Boonskiies wrote:This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the main points of discussion.


No on D1 one your claim was about your role being "the main subject of D2"

Boons 2581 was saying that...see....mods know what they are doing. When a mod makes a game with hoods they EXPECT hood talk and thats what he was saying. So this looks really misreppy.


I am not I just have not been bothered going back and refreshing my mind what happened.

I pushed boon because his D1 claims about what would happen on D2 did not line up with D2.
I wanted him to stop being Pl material (on purpose because he cant be bothered playing because he is town....)
He needed some actual threat in order to start, and yeah the threat was and is real,
I am still prepared to PL him if he just wont play.
Thor has points, why not, but that only buys so much grace. He has to play as town.

That ^^^^^ is more open than I was at the time, because the pressure on Boon had to be real. and it still is because the old bit above is truth.

but we can go back and discuss it if you like BUT

First you need to clarify this.

Recently you 100% scum read me. Lately you swapped to Tier. Time is running out.

@Nero a question you need to answer first

Do You claim it is worth while going back and rehashing, the time when i pushed boon, and you pushed me?

(I don't at this time strongly scum read for that at all. Most of the scum read I have came more from your recent stuff.
Any scum read I had back then merely put you my list of leading candidates to check out.
Nothing you have described so far is why I found your push back (on me when i pushed boon) wrong and potentially scummy.)

Be aware that if you claim that it is worth while then it cant be me gumming up the thread with junk that has nothing to do with todays lynch.

Choose. Choose well where and how you hunt scum,
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Post Post #4585 (isolation #635) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:14 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4583, Nero Cain wrote:Also the Josh wagon only had one vote, even if I moved my vote to Josh my wagon would still be bigger than his so I was ok with lynch bad town/maybe scum Thor so you guys wouldn't lynch 100% confirmed town?


You appear to either
just be wrong
or not be talking about the time at which I asked you to vote the significantly larger wagon on on one of your scum reads but you would not compromise.
Here are the facts contrary to your claim above.
Previous post count
In post 4048, Aegor wrote:
[5]Thor665: goodmorning, Izariael, reinoe, Flubbernugget, davesaz
[3]Josh_B: Scripten, AxleGreaser, Slandaar
[2]Flubbernugget: Nero Cain, The Fonz

Relevant votes.
In post 4109, Shiro wrote:
UNVOTE

VOTE:JOSH

The only other wagon that can go anywhere


That makes 4 votes on Josh at that time. (Scripten, AxleGreaser, Slandaar, Shiro)
You were two on Flubber.
Here is you not voting Josh to make Josh equal lead wagon... on 5 votes.
In post 4133, Nero Cain wrote:

In post 4127, AxleGreaser wrote:If so,as you are LAZY and are not pushing your flub lynch....
Why are you not taking the LAZY easier option of voting JoshB/Garmr slot?

Well I've posted about why I'm suspicious about Flubber. What else should I do? Why are you not sheeping me on Flub?
I thought Garmr was fairly scummy yes, but now that you asked this the wagon is 2 of my scum reads and a pl. So that makes me a lil wary. But just for shit and giggles, explain to me what moving my vote would accomplish?

If you had moved and made it five on Josh, and that is getting close to serious, as it would then have been equal lead wagon.
If that had happened then you might never have needed to make this post
In post 4214, Nero Cain wrote:I mostly wanted you
<thor>
to claim.


So no at that time I did not observe you willing to compromise to get lynch today. So your later claims that you are so willing to lynch into your PL list as a form of compromsie when not that long before you were not willing to compromise onto a larger wagon on different scum read is troubling.
I do understand the logic that if your scum reads are voting something then it is harder to do, and counts against it.
However right now your scum reads wanted to lynch Josh earlier and were pushing it at time when it really might have gone to completion (if people like you joined it) it was a contender. To my way of thinking that should still be troubling to you.
Yet now somehow this is not problem, Now. When Josh does not to me actually look like he will get lynched, now you vote him?

That ^^^^^ does not feel like town to me.

Also
Case on dave is not all in one place.
I guess I have a Thor style case on dave its all my comments in the thread. A lot of it is tone or ridiculously complex.
So lets call it a mixture of Tone, sheeping Thors points, and maybe second guessing myself with JoshB play(which pushes dave into the lead for me.).

But hey if you now believe Garmr is the best lynch based on what Garmr and JoshB did, and it no longer concerns you that your scum reads were trying to get him lynched earlier.
Then primarily I am sad you didn't swap earlier and then perhaps Thor would not have had to full claim.
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Post Post #4586 (isolation #636) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:30 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4583, Nero Cain wrote:So why is it ok for you to pl a player that you are suspicious of but I can't?

because it is PLing a player that just wont play.
(Hey see Thors earlier PL posts he can do it too. He wants to PL drunk posters, and I wont try and tell him its anti town, feel free to try.)

Boons adherence to VI is of legendary proportions
It is a choice, he makes

and the PL is an ultimatum that if he does at least try to play for the team he claims to be on, he will get lynched.

You have no policy for the people you say you want PL, you just have a list. A long list.

You also were hawking around to try and lynch them not as last resorts, not unless they changed in specific achievable ways,
but as 3 of the four proposed options
In post 4393, Nero Cain wrote:Yours is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.


That betrays an internal desire and intent to get the PL candidates lynched seemingly ahead of your actual scum reads.
You are not putting up your scum read sand saying hey lets lynch these guys,...

You are promoting what you claim to be your compromise fall back lynches. (ahead of your scum reads...! nah)

BS.

Personally I am a little surprised you didn't just get speed lynched.
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Post Post #4593 (isolation #637) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:38 am

Post by AxleGreaser »




do you actually have reason for lynching Thor?

I've just been reading your posts and i see

he didn't clearly scum read you D1 therefore he is scum. (I thiink thats the argument?)

Errm I know I am town and I didn't make much of my secondary reads public either....
I am pretty sure I hardly disclosed much about how I felt about your posting until I voted you near the end.
Indeed I had one of my weird reads, in which you became both townier and scummier both at the same time.
An some may say but you cant do that....Oh yes I can. That happens when I get to a point that when I resolve certain things are unknown the only thing you wont be is null.
Its a lot like a null read but not the same as i have most of the (scum/town)story, just missing a few bits.

There is still a chance for me that you are town and are right and Thor is scum
but you need something resembling a reason to persuade me
In post 945, goodmorning wrote:Were you expecting Thor to fuck up bad? Because I'm not. You may have noticed he's good at this game. He's not going to make any pushes he doesn't think he can justify, he's not going to overstretch his hand, and with this being a Large there's plenty of room to hide in.

Appeal to fear, && paranoia arguments like this don't wash with me. (it also smells wrong)

and yeah I don't expect Thor to fuck up. Reading Thor is hard. And that is why every time in a post game chat when Thor says you are bad for misreading him and mislynching him he is quite possibly just full of it. Thors hard to read a high error rate is expected.
However you want me to lynch Thor first when you failed to even attempt to try to find one of his easier to find buddies first? yeah right.

and yeah I don't expect Thor to fuck up, but you confidently tilted your hat at him from part way through D1. That smelt TMI fishy from the start.

So do you have any reasons to go with YOUR ALL CAPS SHOUTING FOR DRAMATIC EFFECT?
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Post Post #4599 (isolation #638) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:53 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

response to neros
You do realise there is not currently a serious proposal to lynch you today.
You could instead be trying to get your best plausible scum read lynched.

Spoiler: not about todays lynch candidates
In post 4595, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4585, AxleGreaser wrote:To my way of thinking that should still be troubling to you.
Yet now somehow this is not problem, Now. When Josh does not to me actually look like he will get lynched, now you vote him?

So....you are saying that I am scummy 'cause I didn't vote Josh with my scum reads and that I'm also scummy for ignoring that now.

yes you have new
schtick
(falsely)
claiming I am scum reading you for both doing and not doing something

and no that is not what I am saying.
# I am saying that if you legitimately wanted your scum read(Josh) lynched you could have voted for him when it mattered. (when he was at 4 votes) (read the top part)
# I was also saying your claim he wouldn't have had more votes than the wagon you were voting at the time was fiction. (read the top part)
# I am saying that you are doing so now when he is not near being lead candidate but the problems from before still exists indicates they were possibly not the serious problem for you that you claimed at that time. (problems == 2 of your scum reads have tried to lynch that guy) (read the bottom part after me quoting you just wanting thor to claim)
In other words I am analysing your intent and I fail to find that you have been trying to get your scum reads lynched in that time period.
<<< What I am saying


[.....]
In post 4586, AxleGreaser wrote:You have no policy for the people you say you want PL, you just have a list. A long list.

I think if you were actually reading instead of skimming/posting random things just to which to call me scum you'd find this untrue.

Well as I have previously repeatedly posted evidence that you have along PL list, (it appears to be you that is not reading)(and i certainly cant be skimming as I keep quoting the posts...?)(WAT ?) also
# Focus and intent is: Pushing PLs over your scum reads. that you propose 3 out of 4 people you want to list as PL candidates. You saying it
# this post was me listing all the variations I could find on what your PL thor policy is actually based on
# so no I am pretty sure you have conclusive evidence I am reading your posts quoting them and showing that what I claim to be true is.



The following is Nero town story (according to Nero)
[.....]
Calls Thor scum on d1.
downgrades Thor but is still suspicious of him.
votes scumread Flubber.
doesn't get any traction on Flubber so I move my vote to a viable lynch (Thor)

Sorry but that makes perfect sense. And you fussing about it doesn't. *shrugz* I still think you are being upset over the fact that I attacked you.

And yes Id expect any scum can tell a story where they are plausible town. All you have to do is ignore all the points I mention above. They do not fit in your story.
(downgrades thor to PL) (does not mention how or why he is scummy between then and stating intent to hammer because you want a claim.)
(does not vote a scum read when that would have made it lead wagon. does compromise on thor to get a claim. does propose 3 out of 4 proposed wagons that ought form wink wink on Pl candidates.)
(blah blah...)
So yes when we leave out all the scummy stuff and look at just the stuff you want us too you can indeed look like a lazy towny as you claim to be.

[....]


As per my earlier post
You appear to be choosing badly.
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Post Post #4601 (isolation #639) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:14 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4581, Slandaar wrote:
The only valid votes now are:
Dave
Josh
Boon


I am going to say in 12 hours will be the final 2 wagons. The smallest wagon of the three currently Josh will be invalid after that point.


To avoid you having a conflict of interest and as the mod just posted a vote count.
Spoiler: VC
In post 4598, Aegor wrote:
Votecount 2.16


[5]
davesaz:
Thor665, Josh_B, AxleGreaser, The Fonz, Shiro
[4]
Thor665:
goodmorning, reinoe, Flubbernugget, davesaz
[3]
Nero Cain:
Boonskiies, T S O, TierShift
[2]
Josh_B:
Scripten, Nero Cain
[1]
beastcharizard:
Izariael
[1]
Boonskiies:
Slandaar

[1]
Not Voting:
beastcharizard

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline:
(expired on 2014-11-19 18:27:52)

Mod Notes

None.


Slaandar your vote/wagon are the weakest link. You have to (by your rules) move?

I do feel obliged to point out
[5]
davesaz:
Thor665, Josh_B, AxleGreaser, The Fonz, Shiro
[2]
Josh_B:
Scripten, Nero Cain
[1] Slandaar
at best only makes 8.
however impressive effort you have
pushed
lead the way to a 5 vote lead wagon, on someone who is likely to flip scum.

As opposed to paranoia based/tone/(mumble mumble)/policy/(revenge for PereV?) lynch.
Well done so far.

So you folks in the spectator vanity wagon seats really ought stop playing it (scummily)safe and pony up an actual choice who you want lynched.

PS. much as I loved the concept of an NC wagon lead by Boon and TSO, that means you too. Vote for a viable wagon. You guys have done and are doing squat to drive that lynch, it would be more honest if you simply unvoted and showed you were openly doing nothing to get anyone lynched, but were merely waiting out the day.
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Post Post #4602 (isolation #640) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:15 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

oops nija'd
Scripten jumped ship captain
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Post Post #4603 (isolation #641) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:17 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

LOL (I love the plans of mice and men)
actually now you are screwed as two wagons are tied.
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Post Post #4604 (isolation #642) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:19 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4603, AxleGreaser wrote:LOL (I love the plans of mice and men)
actually now you are screwed as two wagons are tied.

may I suggest using the plurality voting rules?
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Post Post #4605 (isolation #643) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:21 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4600, Scripten wrote:Ugh, I hate this. I'm not scumreading Dave or Thor enough to want to see them hang. If we can't hang the Garmr/Josh_B slot, can we lynch beastcharizard? It's done nothing but evasive, active-lurky BS. That's more likely scum than any of the three leading wagons, IMO.

UNVOTE: Josh_B
VOTE: beastcharizard


may I suggest that if you had rowed the garmr/Josh B wagon harder when it was at 4 and I was voting it...
we would not be here?
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Post Post #4606 (isolation #644) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:25 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4387, Scripten wrote:Alright, so here's what happened in the thread:


So earlier TSO indicated he had told the hood he would post a case today.

Is that the case?
I dont see that in your summary?
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Post Post #4610 (isolation #645) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:06 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4608, Scripten wrote:
In post 4605, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4600, Scripten wrote:Ugh, I hate this. I'm not scumreading Dave or Thor enough to want to see them hang. If we can't hang the Garmr/Josh_B slot, can we lynch beastcharizard? It's done nothing but evasive, active-lurky BS. That's more likely scum than any of the three leading wagons, IMO.

UNVOTE: Josh_B
VOTE: beastcharizard


may I suggest that if you had rowed the garmr/Josh B wagon harder when it was at 4 and I was voting it...
we would not be here?


Well there was something that happened midway through the case being pushed. You know, when Garmr replaced out? Pushing an empty slot is pretty uncool, and I don't feel comfortable doing it.

yeah that is a point of view. And I don't like it either, as its rude to the guy(human) coming in. But we are not exactly frothing at the mouth with viable wagons and counter wagons this game. So in some ways is the rep outs problem?
I really wouldnt want it to favorable to the rep out slots wincon to rep out, is another thing I weigh.
but Ok. That is POV. (As maxwell smart would say: sorrry bout that)


In post 4606, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4387, Scripten wrote:Alright, so here's what happened in the thread:


So earlier TSO indicated he had told the hood he would post a case today.

Is that the case?
I dont see that in your summary?


The summary was in context of my discussion with Nero Cain. I don't think I transcribed everything that happened in the quicktopic.


and so in that case I am asking (to dot i's and cross t's) if he actually did say he would post case on Anen in the quick topic?
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Post Post #4611 (isolation #646) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:38 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4610, AxleGreaser wrote:yeah that is a point of view. And I don't like it either, as its rude to the guy(human) coming in. But we are not exactly frothing at the mouth with viable wagons and counter wagons this game. So in some ways is the rep outs problem?
I really wouldnt want it to favorable to the rep out slots wincon to rep out, is another thing I weigh.
but Ok. That is POV. (As maxwell smart would say: sorrry bout that)


FYI: that (being fair to the human who filled the slot I pushed while it was vacant) is the reason for
Hi and crack of light
A fair shot at getting up to speed fast.
Me giving the new guy the info he needs if he is (in the less likely to me case) town and really chasing something.

Spoiler: will (in event of untimely death)
SO @thread don't tomorrow, mistake, or be conned into thinking that was a large change of read. (if Im dead)


and yeah now I look is you pushing when Josh has replaced in. my bad. oops again.
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Post Post #4624 (isolation #647) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:45 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

Right now you are interpreting those events as scummy
In post 4617, reinoe wrote:7)Basically it looks like you didn't hammer thor
because you wanted to "look townie"
even though you had multiple completely justified reason to do so. I admit I definitely wanted thor hammered and lynched because I think he's scum. The question is why DIDN'T you want thor hammered?


Not very long ago you said
In post 4377, reinoe wrote:If Nero was serious about "lulz policy lynch thor" then he could have...

1)declared thor's claim fake and hammered.
2)FAKE cc'ed
3)pretended he wasn't paying attention to the VC and derphammered

Like sometimes townies do things that don't fucking make sense. Boons in every game. Some of the stuff coming from Dave and Flubber. The difference is trying to determine if there's scum motivation or town motivation.
The stuff coming from Nero feels townie.
Compare that to all the discrediting coming from thor earlier this DP. That shit was not town.


I would be be a lot happier if it was easier or even possible to make those two posts line up and agree with one another.
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Post Post #4625 (isolation #648) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:54 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4623, Thor665 wrote:it was a really gakked up progression and makes no sense.


and I agree I saw gakked up stuff.
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Post Post #4626 (isolation #649) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:14 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4625, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4623, Thor665 wrote:it was a really gakked up progression and makes no sense.

and I agree I saw gakked up stuff.


I have realised this unclear, this ^^^ was me agreeing with Thors post to the extent that I saw gakked up stuff in Neros read progression.

It is unclear because I also just posted about what looks like some some quite gakked up stuff from Reinoe.

(I think I need to don my peril sensitive sun glasses and go read some other games... and try to assess the std depth of gak. <sigh>)
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Post Post #4630 (isolation #650) » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:37 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4629, Shiro wrote:Oh btw another coincidence he talked to say he will contribute when he reached 3 votes and I was trying to convince people to vote him and when wagon went nowhere and tier left it he pops to say "oh by tommorow I meant next day phase cause I thought Thor was hammered"

That is suspicious .


Um yes it is. But isn't like kinda really early D1 kinda sized suspicious?

I'd like to think we are further into the game and have people we really ought flip who are likely to be scum,
and get alignment indicative stuff due to their interactions with others.
(Where would we be even if Beast flipped scum?)
(one fewer inactive scum with no thread presence, down one or two townies... and still with the same hard choice to make)<and that is best case about 25% scenario>

Id prefer to lose while trying, than piking out like that.

I will settle for lynching waste of space slot over nothing. Waste of space slots drive me too distraction as I signed up to play the game.
egads I want to be a vig... one day.

I know this town has been sitting on its hands and not playing, voting and making wagons of significant size. But starting in on lurker lynching D2 having lynched a non waste of space slot D1 seems a bit arse up and I wouldn't have even endorsed it D1 unless we had absolutely no viable consensus. PereV was a loss, but at least stuff happened.

Lynching beast is the first step IMO to town losing, unless you luck out and he is scum. (even then its not great)
That however gives beast way too much rope and scope.
Err beast continuing to do nothing, will be alignment indicative at some time. If you are town have any hope of saving the day come late game, you really need to get your act into gear.

but no I don't favour effectively a lurker lynch today.
I consider it an anti town plan. The only question whether its genuine townies anti town idea or a scum one wanting to eek out one more easy lynch.

In Shiro's case i currently lean towards this
push
for alurker lynch as the easy choice as non alignment indicative.

Shiro please think about what you get pout of the lynch and not just what is the easiest least confronting way to get out of the day.
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Post Post #4633 (isolation #651) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:50 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4632, Shiro wrote:Iz why ? How was his push on Thor then vote on GM and the back to Thor cause test town like ?
^Gm same question cause u said u aren't voting him.

Axl I get what u are saying
but we are going there
anyway cause people here cant agree.



Going where?

We only need half +1 on one wagon.

since last VC.
reinoe voted nero
Dave and Nero ought come back and survival vote or just get killed for not.

[7]davesaz: Thor665, Josh_B, AxleGreaser, The Fonz, Shiro, Slandaar, Nero Cain
[6]Nero Cain: Boonskiies, T S O, TierShift, reinoe, Izariael, davesaz,

[1] Not Voting: beastcharizard

Then that leaves these three who could theoretically tie it all up.
GM
Flubber
Scripten

They could possibly tie it up at 8v8
Then we stare at one another with 8v8, and someone blinks

or we all turn in lilly livered wimps and mad rush onto Beast.

Or town loses tragically (but deservedly) because the townies in the game refused to be decisive.

Largely the people not yet voting cant do a VI and get way with it.
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Post Post #4636 (isolation #652) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:02 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Thread just clearing up loose ends, nothing to see, until tomorrow. Ok. Lynch someone scummy Ok? pretty pls?

In post 4634, reinoe wrote:
Spoiler: stuff i said
In post 4624, AxleGreaser wrote:Right now you are interpreting those events as scummy
In post 4617, reinoe wrote:7)Basically it looks like you didn't hammer thor
because you wanted to "look townie"
even though you had multiple completely justified reason to do so. I admit I definitely wanted thor hammered and lynched because I think he's scum. The question is why DIDN'T you want thor hammered?


Not very long ago you said
In post 4377, reinoe wrote:If Nero was serious about "lulz policy lynch thor" then he could have...

1)declared thor's claim fake and hammered.
2)FAKE cc'ed
3)pretended he wasn't paying attention to the VC and derphammered

Like sometimes townies do things that don't fucking make sense. Boons in every game. Some of the stuff coming from Dave and Flubber. The difference is trying to determine if there's scum motivation or town motivation.
The stuff coming from Nero feels townie.
Compare that to all the discrediting coming from thor earlier this DP. That shit was not town.


I would be be a lot happier if it was easier or even possible to make those two posts line up and agree with one another.


Wow, it's almost as if a shift in the game state caused a shift in opinion. Remarkable huh? Strange how something like that happened. It's like Nero Cain did something that did not have a townie feel to it at all and I made a 7 point post explaining it...


Yeah that would explain it.

Please walk me through what changed about the game state that reversed your earlier interpretation of the situation
I especially don't see anything that I remember happened after the first interpretation that is in any one of your 7 points.
I cant see how the things that happened after then inverted, your interpretation and yet not be part of the 7 points.
Its possible I am missing something, as I found the seeming discrepancy looking at your iso not rereading the entire thread.

In post 4617, reinoe wrote:
In post 4616, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4596, reinoe wrote:Nero, did you believe Thor's claim?

I neither believe nor disbelieve his claim. (its null and wifom.) I know that JK is a common scum rb claim. So what specifically makes you disbelieve his claim?

I most certainly don't believe his claim. As you've already mentioned JK is a common scum RB claim. Here's where all of a sudden I'm finding you dicey...

1)You scum read thor
2)you think thor is PL worthy
3)you think JK is a common scum RB claim.

4)You don't hammer thor? WTF is this?


5)If thor is telling the truth then he's now nothing more than a named townie. Is it worth running up someone else who may be a PR?

6)thor would have been a HUGE information lynch. Look at how divisive everything around him is/was. From the way the wagon formed to how he was defended. Huge amounts of information that we could have looked over. There were counter-wagons and everything.

7)Basically it looks like you didn't hammer thor because you wanted to "look townie" even though you had multiple completely justified reason to do so. I admit I definitely wanted thor hammered and lynched because I think he's scum. The question is why DIDN'T you want thor hammered?
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Post Post #4637 (isolation #653) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:03 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4635, TierShift wrote:Gogogo nero nero nero votes!

10 hours? Maybe 8?


Go go votes? +1
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Post Post #4641 (isolation #654) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:17 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4639, TierShift wrote:y not nero?


Well at this moment there is my question above and that would currently be an impediment to me.
There may be an explanation, Reinoe claims there is, I cant see it, time will tell, but we dont have much so town!Reinoe ought get on with it.
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Post Post #4642 (isolation #655) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:18 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4640, Slandaar wrote:He's town?


I also have an itchy feeling you are right.
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Post Post #4645 (isolation #656) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:32 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Flubber
@Scripten
@GM
@beast


@anyone else voting for Nero.


If reinoe has not clarified it before you get here

You really ought have look at open the spoiler to see reinoes change (reversal) of position that he has since said is due to changed "game state"

It may by the time you get here all be a storm in tea cup as Reinoe may have explained what I cant see.

But have a look Ok?

No I am not trying to speed wagon Reinoe, but it makes the nero lynch look quite unsafe to me.
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Post Post #4647 (isolation #657) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:35 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4646, Nero Cain wrote:I know or think I know what he's saying but is still fucking stupid.


You think you know what reinoe is saying?
Wanna guess and share?
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Post Post #4648 (isolation #658) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:37 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4647, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4646, Nero Cain wrote:I know or think I know what he's saying but is still fucking stupid.


You think you know what reinoe is saying?
Wanna guess and share?


actually sorry DONT please.
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Post Post #4650 (isolation #659) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:43 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Tier and ONLY at tier.


I am flying blind from memory here and sorry if I am wrong. (If so i got you mixed up with some other stellar player... ok?)
I believe:
You have town read on Thor, and its because of him, hunting scum even when under the pump(L-small), he was going down hunting scum...? yeah

Whats this
In post 4646, Nero Cain wrote:I know or think I know what he's saying but is still fucking stupid.


chopped liver?

unvote nero, while you think.
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Post Post #4652 (isolation #660) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:47 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4649, Izariael wrote:though my read on the situation would certainly change if I felt that were the case.


Just clarifying?
You town read GM so strongly that people trying to lynch him read as scum?
is that what that bit means?

or was it specific to Dave?
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Post Post #4655 (isolation #661) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:56 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

You have not answered the question and explained what chnaged about the game state, and how that effected your interpretation of events but somehow was not
(as far as i cant tell contained in the 7 points)

Please explain that.
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Post Post #4658 (isolation #662) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:57 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4636, AxleGreaser wrote:Please walk me through what changed about the game state that reversed your earlier interpretation of the situation
I especially don't see anything that I remember happened after the first interpretation that is in any one of your 7 points.
I cant see how the things that happened after then inverted, your interpretation and yet not be part of the 7 points.
Its possible I am missing something, as I found the seeming discrepancy looking at your iso not rereading the entire thread.


You have not done this.
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Post Post #4664 (isolation #663) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:06 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Iz
Spoiler: ta I remember that event now
In post 4657, Izariael wrote:
In post 4652, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4649, Izariael wrote:though my read on the situation would certainly change if I felt that were the case.


Just clarifying?
You town read GM so strongly that people trying to lynch him read as scum?
is that what that bit means?

or was it specific to Dave?

It was specific to dave and his actions in this exchange. I deemed the gm vote as an attempt to gauge a reaction from Thor, and not as a legitimate vote for gm in the interest of lynching her. My interpretation of that vote has a big impact on how I view the situation.

I did consider the possibility that it was a legit gm vote, and drew what conclusion that would lead me to, but found that his statements indicated the alternative :up:


You did?
Well I had number of theories, but I had to guess what someone else would call a light bulb moment, and narrow down what he may have thought that way.
and no I dont believe I found that part alignment indicative either way. (as for me there are quite plausible town and scum stories) for that.
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Post Post #4670 (isolation #664) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:16 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4659, reinoe wrote:
In post 4655, AxleGreaser wrote:You have not answered the question and explained what chnaged about the game state, and how that effected your interpretation of events but somehow was not
(as far as i cant tell contained in the 7 points)

Please explain that.

A player claimed a PR. This isn't hard to understand. Are you really always this bad?

"My interpretation of events" is that Nero Cain's behavior towards thor at L-1 did not have a town motivation. It's not confusing unless you're awful.


No a player did not claim a power role AFTER you first interpretation and before your second interpretation of the same events. (the ones I quoted in )

This happened before both events
In post 4198, Thor665 wrote:Claim: 1-shot JKer

That was not new information that changed your mind about your Nero read.

Why did your read change? What about the game state changed? and why is that not part of your 7 points?

Now I also want to know why you don't know what changed your mind as you have made an attempt at explaining what event changed the game state between your two reads and failed to explain.
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Post Post #4674 (isolation #665) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:24 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Nero read this carefully please.

In post 4665, Nero Cain wrote:I see. You agree that it isn't pro-town play to lynch right away but I should have done it just I'm "consistent". Wich is still ignoring all those players that unvoted...


He changed his read, for no apparent(visible stated so far) reason.

A scum reason is
earlier he town read you so as to drive the Thor Lynch. (why he would wk as scum trying to lynch thor)(you were an ally)
Now a dave lynch is inconvenient, so now he wants to scum read you. So he does. Simple. (now you are expendable)

A town reason is?
he has yet to provide a towny way that game state changed, (after his first read)
and his interpretation of those earlier events changed by that change
but somehow that change was also not part of his 7 points.

+ .......... (not saying)
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Post Post #4677 (isolation #666) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:29 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4659, reinoe wrote:Are you really always this bad?

Earlier you said to me.... I didnt bite you.

In post 4673, reinoe wrote:blegh maybe I was just pissed that Nero didn't hammer.


So ok maybe you were just pissed. (its a possibility to consider, but there is also the scum story that fits)

Now explain how you became more pissed, as time went on.

Your first read was just after he didn't hammer. (and you read him town)

later you are somehow more pissed?

How come you are more pissed later?

Like I said originally walk me through how you got there.
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Post Post #4678 (isolation #667) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:30 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4676, Nero Cain wrote:axle, what do you think of tiershift?


I am busy
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Post Post #4679 (isolation #668) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:31 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

Also unless you have a plan stop poking Reinoe for now please.
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Post Post #4680 (isolation #669) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:32 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4672, reinoe wrote:UNVOTE:


So you are at no lynching?
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Post Post #4682 (isolation #670) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:43 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4681, reinoe wrote:
In post 4677, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4659, reinoe wrote:Are you really always this bad?

Earlier you said to me.... I didnt bite you.

In post 4673, reinoe wrote:blegh maybe I was just pissed that Nero didn't hammer.


So ok maybe you were just pissed. (its a possibility to consider, but there is also the scum story that fits)

Now explain how you became more pissed, as time went on.

Your first read was just after he didn't hammer. (and you read him town)

later you are somehow more pissed?

How come you are more pissed later?

Like I said originally walk me through how you got there.

How come I'm more pissed later? The Thor lynch is slipped away. Thor lynch was still a better lynch than this scrambling around bullshit.


Ok tell me where you had read up to in the thread, when you decided the Thor lynch had slipped away and you went back and decided nero was scum.
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Post Post #4684 (isolation #671) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:59 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4679, AxleGreaser wrote:Also unless you have a plan stop poking Reinoe for now please.


@Nero
ta for waiting (it didn't turn out as well as I hoped) if you want to talk to Reinoe go ahead.

He has however now (if he is town) realised his read was fueled by "blegh maybe I was just pissed" and unvoted you.

and BTW Axle claims
Nero quick hammering in the small window he could have (and reinoe is pissed he didnt) would have been bad towny play.
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Post Post #4685 (isolation #672) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:24 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@reinoe
Spoiler: here is reply you made earlier
In post 4634, reinoe wrote:
In post 4624, AxleGreaser wrote:Right now you are interpreting those events as scummy
In post 4617, reinoe wrote:7)Basically it looks like you didn't hammer thor
because you wanted to "look townie"
even though you had multiple completely justified reason to do so. I admit I definitely wanted thor hammered and lynched because I think he's scum. The question is why DIDN'T you want thor hammered?


Not very long ago you said
In post 4377, reinoe wrote:If Nero was serious about "lulz policy lynch thor" then he could have...

1)declared thor's claim fake and hammered.
2)FAKE cc'ed
3)pretended he wasn't paying attention to the VC and derphammered

Like sometimes townies do things that don't fucking make sense. Boons in every game. Some of the stuff coming from Dave and Flubber. The difference is trying to determine if there's scum motivation or town motivation.
The stuff coming from Nero feels townie.
Compare that to all the discrediting coming from thor earlier this DP. That shit was not town.


I would be be a lot happier if it was easier or even possible to make those two posts line up and agree with one another.

Wow, it's almost as if a shift in the game state caused a shift in opinion. Remarkable huh? Strange how something like that happened. It's like Nero Cain did something that did not have a townie feel to it at all and I made a 7 point post explaining it...


The problem I was pointing out was that you interpreted the same events quite differently.

You now claim you interpreted them differently as you were pissed later as the thor lynch slipped away.

When I showed you you had interpreted them differently you claimed a shift in the game state did it.
What game state change were you claiming did that? In You say it is the claim.

I cant see how town can make that mistake.
The mistake you claim to have made is
Your interpeation of the events surrounding the Thors claim, were different later, than earlier becuase in between the two times game state had changed because Thor claimed..
WAT Your earlier interpretation of the events around the claim cant have happened before the claim.

The implausibility/plausibility of you making that kind of derp, weighs on whether I believe the scum case or the town one below.

earlier i said something like this

A scum reason is
earlier Reinoe town read Nero so as to drive the Thor Lynch. (the scum motivation of that post is to wk, a player who has thor scum read, and chuck in some digs at thor)
(why he would wk as scum trying to lynch thor)(you were an ally)
Now a dave lynch is inconvenient, so now he wants to scum read you. So he does. Simple. (now you are expendable) (this would be true if Dave is more valuable than a townie with convenient read)
(Also be aware in this story yes scum would be more pissed when the thor wagon collapsed, so the pissed reason would be easy well to fake as its real?) (rats)


A town reason is?
Well there is in fact no towny reason

Yep there was third possibility (bad emotive play)

@Thread

Sorry that is as good as it got. You read Reinoe based on which is more believable. (or make up your own)
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Post Post #4687 (isolation #673) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:26 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Slaandar
Reinoe is now all yours. (I may need to get sleep soon.)
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Post Post #4688 (isolation #674) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:27 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4686, TierShift wrote:
In post 4650, AxleGreaser wrote:
@Tier and ONLY at tier.


I am flying blind from memory here and sorry if I am wrong. (If so i got you mixed up with some other stellar player... ok?)
I believe:
You have town read on Thor, and its because of him, hunting scum even when under the pump(L-small), he was going down hunting scum...? yeah

Whats this
In post 4646, Nero Cain wrote:I know or think I know what he's saying but is still fucking stupid.


chopped liver?

unvote nero, while you think.

I don't get this



maybe its bad i was pressed for time.

Did you tiwn read Thor earlier for scum hunting all the way to L-1 or am I mixing that up with someone else?
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Post Post #4689 (isolation #675) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:37 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4686, TierShift wrote:
In post 4650, AxleGreaser wrote:
@Tier and ONLY at tier.


I am flying blind from memory here and sorry if I am wrong. (If so i got you mixed up with some other stellar player... ok?)
I believe:
You have town read on Thor, and its because of him, hunting scum even when under the pump(L-small), he was going down hunting scum...? yeah

Whats this
In post 4646, Nero Cain wrote:I know or think I know what he's saying but is still fucking stupid.


chopped liver?

unvote nero, while you think.

I don't get this


I have had time to dig, in post you town read Thor, for continuing to be towny while being lead wagon (town reading the only legit alternative etc)

I want you to read the recent stuff with Nero, reinoe, and Axle,

and tell me your read on Nero during the exchange.
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Post Post #4690 (isolation #676) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:55 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4683, Slandaar wrote:
In post 4669, reinoe wrote:Sure if we agree on who's scum. That's not happening right now though.

Yes, this is the problem, no-one can agree on anything. Instead I am asking you to vote with me today. Lynching NC is just going to end badly.


@Slaandar
I assume you have seen reinoe is currently not voting anyone? (unvotes)

... nah (That is not on you list of valid options)
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Post Post #4693 (isolation #677) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:24 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4692, TierShift wrote:
In post 4689, AxleGreaser wrote:and tell me your read on Nero during the exchange.

what exchange?


The recent one be back in sec with links where it starts
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Post Post #4694 (isolation #678) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:33 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4692, TierShift wrote:
In post 4689, AxleGreaser wrote:and tell me your read on Nero during the exchange.

what exchange?



Me reinoe and nero

Starting about here and the next 3 pages. (up to about this post)

Is Nero playing with pro town motivations while real close to death/lynch?

bear in mind at some time he had me as 100% scum candidate and untunelled...

I want your read on whether or not you perceive Nero playing with towny intent in this period.
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Post Post #4699 (isolation #679) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:54 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4697, TierShift wrote:hmm. Nero seems genuinely frustrated but I think that's not alignment-indicative.

I don't see much more in his posts. He's trying to direct town after he dies, which is a mild towntell, but he's not overly doing that.



If he is scum why did he make
What does he think might happen next that will be beneficial to his survival?
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Post Post #4703 (isolation #680) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:21 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4701, TierShift wrote:I still have no clue what 4646 means, axle.


Ok I was hoping youd decide it meant something.

I will tell you what it means to me and see what you think.

What happened:(cliff notes version from my POV)
I have found a contradiction in Reinoes posts.
I am chewing like a bulldog on Reinoe. Reinoe is known to be a little bit... ermm shall I say combustable.

Nero with that post is pursuing truth, trying to find shit out. Putting out a potential fight between me and Reinoe.
Why on earth if Nero is scum and Reinoe is not, would Nero do that?
(I know Iam town so its easier for me)(but I think you can guess either alignment and it still makes no sense)

Reinoe is pointing out he may have derp excuse for Reinoe.... making a shit read on him.

Scum.Nero could very easily fuel that fight, by poking reinoe a bit then standing back and letting me eat the heat,
and if nothing else, even if Nero is scum and subsequenlty flips, leave Axle and Reinoe as blood emotive enemies?
and leave me as a prime mislynch when he flips.

Posting that he has a possible explanation for Reinoe makes no sense.


Spoiler: caveat for future games meta readers
(beware Muffins law for all future repetitions though) AKA its true this time.
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Post Post #4704 (isolation #681) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:39 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

Oh ok perhaps you literally dont know what means

In I pursue Reinoe about a contradiction in why he is voting for Nero. (a thing scum nero should be rather keen about)

In post I am not accepting the first explanation and asking about details... (Scum nero should be licking his lips thinking i may tunnel reinoe into oblivion.)

(worst case scenario is Nero flips and Look seriously bad, and its posthumous mislynch)

says he l knows what Reinoe is saying but its still fucking stupid (not scummy just stupid) (Why would Nero do that as scum?)
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Post Post #4705 (isolation #682) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:42 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Town
Dont lynch Nero today (at least)
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Post Post #4707 (isolation #683) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:53 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4704, AxleGreaser wrote:Oh ok perhaps you literally dont know what means

In I pursue Reinoe about a contradiction in why he is voting for Nero. (a thing scum nero should be rather keen about)

In post I am not accepting the first explanation and asking about details... (Scum nero should be licking his lips thinking i may tunnel reinoe into oblivion.)

(worst case scenario is Nero flips and Look seriously bad, and its posthumous mislynch)

says he l knows what Reinoe is saying but its still fucking stupid (not scummy just stupid) (Why would Nero do that as scum?)


He is claiming storm in tea cup option from
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Post Post #4708 (isolation #684) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:55 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4706, beastcharizard wrote:I would like to request that if there is a vig they don't kill me. I haven't had a chance to do anything yet and I promise I will be awesome tomorrow.

I don't break promises.


are you going to not be awful and work out who you are going to vote today?

I advocate for Dave?

(See the VC for who else advocates what)
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Post Post #4709 (isolation #685) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:00 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4702, goodmorning wrote:So? Looks to me like martyr play. People eat that shit up and it always makes you look super Town if you can pull it off.

So for me he pulled it off, and you agree that makes him look super town to me. (but I have rule that downrgades that to leans town again)

You say it looks like Martyr play and apparently you don't think he pulled it off. Can you explain how you see that in such way as it might convince me or others.
or is it an appeal to your own authority?
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Post Post #4711 (isolation #686) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:21 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

are we l-2 on dave?
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Post Post #4712 (isolation #687) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:38 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@tier
I will ask explicitly
what do you think of ?

Do you agree it is hard to see scum Nero doing that?
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Post Post #4717 (isolation #688) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:20 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4633, AxleGreaser wrote:
[8]davesaz: Thor665, Josh_B, AxleGreaser, The Fonz, Shiro, Slandaar, Nero Cain, beastcharizard



I believe that VC is correct on dave, but you really ought check as I have had way too little sleep
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Post Post #4718 (isolation #689) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:25 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4717, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4633, AxleGreaser wrote:
[8]davesaz: Thor665, Josh_B, AxleGreaser, The Fonz, Shiro, Slandaar, Nero Cain, beastcharizard



I believe that VC is correct on dave, but you really ought check as I have had way too little sleep


[6]Nero Cain: Boonskiies, T S O, TierShift, reinoe, Izariael, davesaz,

Then that leaves these three who could theoretically tie it all up.
GM
Flubber
Scripten

and one these guys needs to hammer.
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Post Post #4719 (isolation #690) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:26 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

Then if I am not alive tomorrow and dave flips scum....

You really really ought look in my filter and who ran interference when
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Post Post #4720 (isolation #691) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:27 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

I mean like where the F is dave?
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Post Post #4721 (isolation #692) » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:32 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

gnight /morning pleasant hoods
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Post Post #4748 (isolation #693) » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:59 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

VOTE: Josh_B
Garmr
Slot
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Post Post #4770 (isolation #694) » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:04 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4769, T S O wrote:
In post 4763, Slandaar wrote:
In post 4757, T S O wrote:Nero is in my 4-man neighbourhood, and Scripten was in it too. Do you think there are 2 scum among 4?

This is terrible honestly.

Theoretically there could be 4 scum in the same hood.


show me where this has ever happened


That is not actually relevant.
If the host generates the scum and the hoods randomly then, the number of people you have seen flipped in the hood has absolutely no impact on whether the next one is scum too.

There could be multifaction in the hood.

It is safest to ignore the number of flipped townies in the hood...

and then [ay attention to whether or not people do actually alignment indicative things like claim roles,

you know play the game, the one you signed up for.
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Post Post #4834 (isolation #695) » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:21 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

UNVOTE: Josh B

Working out who to vote, now, a little later today.
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Post Post #4852 (isolation #696) » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:51 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

Starting back ways... yeah I will catch up with the C and CC (red check) soonish.
In post 4727, Slandaar wrote:You just gotta have faith Axle :]


I do but faith comes in many flavors good faith, bad faith, broken faith.
I don't necessarily have faith we all have the faith, or faith in the same things.
and I am old, and was tired, so that changes stuff.

But yeah I had faith:
that either some towny or scum would hammer it eventually (SNAFU), or
they wouldn't and the game would effectively be over as IDGAF won or
one of the other less likely possibilities would happen.

One thing I may not have faith in... just because (based on that evidence) "there has been both a claim, and red check and a counter claim...."
It is not certain that even one of them is scum(WW,maf,or SK), either is cop, that there was check made ...
AKA they can still both be town... :eek: :facepalm: :cry: :(
Deciding will still take thinking about.
Some people have what I shall describe as "
interesting
" ideas what playing the game of mafia involves.

(
PS sorry if for one of you thats not possible, as you have completed the 12 step program and sworn of silly gambits, or never got hooked on them to begin with.

Indeed sig change for the day: Silly (cookie cutter) gambits. The crack cocaine of playing mafia. : Axle
)
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Post Post #4856 (isolation #697) » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:29 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4830, T S O wrote:well at least 1 of them is scum.

I find it very weird that Beast would, as scum, claim a role which reinoe would flip as. Either it's a massive coincidence or reinoe is lying.

And I don't see anything reinoe has done which means he's gotta be removed.


at least 1 is scum or both bad.

Beast was from my reading under pressure when he claimed, but it was still early in the day..

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Role_Cop

Life and especially MB mafia is full of possibilities, if only you think about them.

My preferred choice will be to lynch the one (if either) that is mafia and make (not town) kill the other.
(throwing hands up and lynching into them until one or more flips not town, is not my plan, and does not seem the towniest plan.)

Finally to complete the set of possibilities.

If beast is WW, and WW consensus last night was that Reinoe was in the mafia team, then if under pressure, WW faking red check on guessed scum Reinoe, would be ... cleverish? (not crack?)
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Post Post #4857 (isolation #698) » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:31 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4755, Boonskiies wrote:I'm pretty sure I was shot night 1.


Why ?

If it is mod confirmed or something Id like to know....

If that is Boonskiies being boonskiies (cray cray) then I'd like to know that I ought ignore it.
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Post Post #4858 (isolation #699) » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:00 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Beast

I know this wasn't @ me, but to set a baseline
In post 4811, beastcharizard wrote:Are you reading what I type?

Well I cant be sure about anyone else, but as I signed up to play the game, you can take that as sign on "
good faith
" that I did in fact sign up to play the game, and thus I am playing the game (not having a fit of pique) and i am reading every one of your posts several times.

Hence I have actual, mafia playing related questions....

You made these two posts (the first with no reasons at all) and yeah now you say that flags your red check in case you flipped later.
In post 4780, beastcharizard wrote:Finally read the game and these are my reads.

Scum:
Reinoe
goodmorning
AxleGreaser
Shiro

Leaning Scum:
Josh_B
[....]


You explain Reinoe thus (Which is consistent) and there dont have to reasons(scum hunting behind a red check)
In post 4782, beastcharizard wrote:Reinoe is just scum. Call it gut or whatever you want they just give me no town vibes what so ever.


However these were you playing mafia (not flagging checks).

This one is about me (please dont worry about OMGUS) I really like (often town read) townies scum reading me then explaining why.
What I don't like is scum, making up crap, then refusing to explain it.
So which do you want to be?
In post 4784, beastcharizard wrote:Axle had a post somewhere that screamed scum to me, I just don't remember which one it was. I will find it in due time.

Which post?
Where?
and how did it scream scum?



I also want you to explain this read/reason.
In post 4782, beastcharizard wrote:Shinobi is based off of the flipped WW. I found them most likely to be partner. It was really the early vote from said flipped WW that made me think that.

Confirm this referred to Shiro? Which vote and why?


There will very likely be more questions. When I get those answers.

Please note This: I wont really care if Reinoe flips scum, and you claimed cop and you claim you have a red check. While that will be some evidence that you are town, it is also true that(a maf flip) will mean the game is then (mod conf) MB, and that will then mean you really ought be in different team (WW,Town and SK?) are then still possible. So yes please don't look at your claimed blue PM and say OMGUS Axle is asking me questions to work out my alignment, that means he must be ...

because the answer you are looking for is, that means he must be ... conscious and playing the damn game.
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Post Post #4860 (isolation #700) » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:25 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Beast

In post 4828, beastcharizard wrote:Wow, how convenient that you just happen to be the same role that i claimed.

GM, I didn't want to put myself by calling reinoe mafia so I tried to get someone else to say mafia was in the game first so I didn't look look like a cop.


also please re write the bold above using more words.
(I guess about 3 times as many or more in at leats 3 sentences.) Ta.

@GM I know you claim not to be reading my posts, but if you (
actually are
<OMG maybe he lied too>) are there are questions I would like to ask you.

carrot? I'd need the answers if you ever want me to vote Thor with you, especially to vote him because you say so.
stick? ...
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Post Post #4866 (isolation #701) » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:20 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4823, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 4813, Shiro wrote:Beast again explain how scriptens ww flips makes me scum
Also
Vote:Beast

Till u do and the reason makes sense.


Their first non-Rvs vote on you looks like bussing to me. I am not trying to lynch you today so you can be a little more calm about it. You can go down in a couple days after reinoe and good morning.


How does it look like bussing?

and really. Your 'best' scum reads from the entire game of posts are looks like bussing?


Dor Threads info:
First
ww!Scripten
non RVS vote was on Shiro/
WBOCampfire
/
Cho
.
In post 362, Scripten wrote:Have a few minor reads.

TSO seems mildly town. Toby and Tiershift feel town. (Tier feels quite town, in fact.)

Nero Cain looks a little suspicious. Cho feels like scum to me.

UNVOTE: Thor665
VOTE: Cho
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Post Post #4869 (isolation #702) » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:56 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4867, beastcharizard wrote:Also, lynch me first. IDGAF. I found scum and I got the town rolling.


egads that is a tempting thought.

especially seeing as you already assessed your own contribution to the game as
In post 4820, beastcharizard wrote:Since I have no credibility I should just claim.


AKA if you are as you claim town then primarily useful as an outed PR scum need to shoot soonish.

@
town!beast
: Please answer
4866 may clarify part of 4858 which you may feel you have answered but I have specific questions about.
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Post Post #4872 (isolation #703) » Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:52 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4870, reinoe wrote:could someone unvote at least before thor gets back from V/LA and quickhammers. G'night.


Considering the numbers of mee tooo voters...
I'd regard someone quick hammering you (now)
as a hard claim that the game is MB and they are on the other team, even if you flip non town...

In post 4777, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 4746, T S O wrote:I'm presuming we have a Vig because unless everyone here has a PR SK + multiball is bullshit. though I've played with it before and won convincingly.


Bro there's no vig if axle is alive.


Flub prolly thinks that would the reason, that no matter who was town vig this game then they would have definitely shot me.

He also apparently has some way to know I am not a town vig....

either that or the Bro's buddy is full of it and mouthing meaningless words instead of you know....
although I suppose I could always have been expected to shoot myself.
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Post Post #4898 (isolation #704) » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:31 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@BEAST


In post 4869, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4867, beastcharizard wrote:Also, lynch me first. IDGAF. I found scum and I got the town rolling.


egads that is a tempting thought.

especially seeing as you already assessed your own contribution to the game as
In post 4820, beastcharizard wrote:Since I have no credibility I should just claim.


AKA if you are as you claim town then primarily useful as an outed PR scum need to shoot soonish.

@
town!beast
:
Please answer

4866 may clarify part of 4858 which you may feel you have answered but I have specific questions about.
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Post Post #4900 (isolation #705) » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:30 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4894, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4770, AxleGreaser wrote:
If
the host generates the scum and the hoods randomly then, the number of people you have seen flipped in the hood has absolutely no impact on whether the next one is scum too.



yes indeed I wrote that
If
. I even wrote it on purpose as that is required prior assumption. (I didn't make it big tho) Do you have point?
Spoiler: Lots of words i didnt say before (but thought)
Do you for instance know that
if
the mods dont do it random, whether mods bias that one way or the other?
(becuase in orderto discuss it without the
if
we need an estimate of that.
I imagine many mods with little formal training in math and stats would if they chose the hood scum layout would pick all scum and all town hoods less often that random would dictate.(footnote 1)
(see balance problems I think I described of having a quasi list check by having fixed ratio scum/town hoods)
Yet other mods tired of having, players play against their setup via setup spec, instead of playing mafia against the other players, might just choose biased the other way(as payback? to make it interesting?).
However: My best bet is the first type are more prevalent than the second. (do you have different bet, guess, factual basis?)

Thus the conditional probability is that in this game (no ifs, just my wild guesses now) there is better than random (but not absolute) chance that the less likely patterns of all town (lots of scum) in larger hoods, are even less likely than chance alone would dictate.
Thus there is
small
marginal increased chance that as each towny flips in large hood that one of the remainder is scum.
(however if we get to the last person in a 5 man hood and still no scum that does not make the last one scum for sure at all...)(not unless you have lots of site meta to prove that, and that this host does not buck site meta.)

Was that your point? (that took more (too many) words so I didn't say that the first time. I assumed every body that knew the math already knew that bit. k.)

or do you have some other point?


In post 4770, AxleGreaser wrote:people do actually alignment indicative things like claim roles

how are claiming roles "alignment indicative"?

The following is my standard position on power roles. (aka what I always think, before after and during games... IIRC it was my view before I ever played my first game.)
I guess that was actually raw cynicism, about players using roles as crutches instead of playing the game. Where they don't really play the game, then when under pressure simply claim (2 shot BP, or even night cop), then make claims like "I got town rolling" (NO the rng assignment did that when it gave you a role...), start claimign they are now confirmed town, and all the other things I have seen people, 1 play badly, 2 claim a role, 3 then look smug, do.

I just went and read the whole post and yeah it does not jive as well with what I write above as I would expect it too, I think that is because it is making a different point.

I expect, my point was that hood membership is even LESS alignment indicative than role claims.

Here is and Example of role claims probably being significantly alignment indicative.

Beast claimed even night cop && Reinoe claimed even night cop

While its possible (
If
both players are bad enough) that both are town... :eek: :o :facepalm: :cry: :(
that hopefully is unlikely.

So their claims are alignment indicative?

(note beast also claimed red check. yes i have seen town cops fake red checks... Ive seen lots of bad stuff (some significant fraction of that on other sites)
but just the claim and CC are alignment indicative due to balance.
)

Is there a scum hunting related point to this question I am missing?

Spoiler: footnotes
1 (its standard well know bias in lay people to assume the number sequence 31 41 51 is not random and has 1's as every even digit, and a counting pattern in the odd. or its counting by tens, or... Mathematicians know of other explanations :lol: some random, some not. When used correctly that sequence is in fact rather good source of pseudo random numbers. (LOL)(no really it is: honest. )
(here are some later ones from the same sequence)
52 98 34 91 87 40 78 66 80 88 18 33 85 10 22 83 34 50 85 04 86 08 25 03 93 02 13 32 19 71 55 18 43 06 35 45 50 07 66
(@Mod and rules lawyers: The above is provably information free (has the same information content as 31 41 51) and is not a code, I swear on my mums apple pie!)
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Post Post #4901 (isolation #706) » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:37 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4899, T S O wrote:I'm conflicted about this, even though I normally just go with the first claim and really want to do so here as well.


There are things to be conflicted about.
Beast not answering my questions is one.
That looks shifty to me.

Liars in RL (and scum in mafia) really like the guy asking the question to put all their cards on the table as it makes making up the excuse(next lie) easier.

Townies are actually playing the game and looking for scum (well they are meant to be doing that as they signed up to play, and playing to wincon is meant to be a thing)
Townies can answer questions about what they were thinking and doing, because they were thinking and doing.
It may depending on the player be wrong, bad, or other things, but they were doing that.
Scum have to make stuff up.
That is risky, they naturally resist, and if they dont they get caught.
Catch 22.
Self awareness of that meta does not matter. (hence axles exception to Muffins law)
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Post Post #4902 (isolation #707) » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:46 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

EBWOP
to recent footnote: mea culpa I fsked up. The first of number sequence is 31 41 5? . oops blush. bad Axle. Dumb Axle. meh.
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Post Post #4906 (isolation #708) » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:14 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4706, beastcharizard wrote:I would like to request that if there is a vig they don't kill me. I haven't had a chance to do anything yet and I promise I will be awesome tomorrow.

I don't break promises.

In post 4905, beastcharizard wrote:Reinoe, I am not active lurking. It is freaking thanksgiving week so I am busier than normal. I will get to stuff when I get to it.


That'll be awesome
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Post Post #4909 (isolation #709) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:03 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4875, goodmorning wrote:
I will say that, expanding/slightly altering your point
If beast is WW, and WW consensus last night was that Reinoe was in the mafia team, then if under pressure, WW faking red check on guessed scum Reinoe, would be ... cleverish? (not crack?)

If
beast is Rolecop
, and got an "Even-Night Cop" result on reinoe, it would be very smart play for him to claim first, especially given that he was/is about to be lynched.
Fake guilty on reinoe would be clever regardless given that reinoe has been fairly townread but this game is full of strange people whose opinions will turn on dimes.


Just to clarify
If
beast's
is a
team has a
Rolecop
, and got an "Even-Night Cop" result on reinoe, it would be very smart play for him to claim first, especially given that he was/is about to be lynched.




Yes my read of the day was that wagon on beast had traction and velocity. Scum might well claim early.

I also don't like the CC, and don't think a non town beast flip, means Reinoe must be town or anything like it.
I plan to in future vote Reinoe or not solely depending on how Reinoe has played/posted.
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Post Post #4910 (isolation #710) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:16 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4906, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4706, beastcharizard wrote:I would like to request that if there is a vig they don't kill me. I haven't had a chance to do anything yet and I promise I will be awesome tomorrow.

I don't break promises.

In post 4905, beastcharizard wrote:Reinoe, I am not active lurking. It is freaking thanksgiving week so I am busier than normal. I will get to stuff when I get to it.


That'll be awesome

...
...
meanwhile

VOTE: beastcharizard

I believe he is not a cop.
I believe he has no red check.
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Post Post #4915 (isolation #711) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:18 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4912, Slandaar wrote:
In post 4901, AxleGreaser wrote:Townies are actually playing the game and looking for scum (well they are meant to be doing that as they signed up to play, and playing to wincon is meant to be a thing)
Townies can answer questions about what they were thinking and doing, because they were thinking and doing.
It may depending on the player be wrong, bad, or other things, but they were doing that.
Scum have to make stuff up.
That is risky, they naturally resist, and if they dont they get caught.
Catch 22.
Self awareness of that meta does not matter. (hence axles exception to Muffins law)

Yeah but this doesn't apply to multiball because scum can hunt scum legitimately. Which is why I don't like multiball as the game is completely different but I digress...


I think I am finding they still do it differently.
Scum can hunt but they don't have to all the time. For town its the only thing to do.
Still waiting for beast ....
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Post Post #4921 (isolation #712) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:46 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4919, Boonskiies wrote:@Axle - I believe I was shot night 1. Day 1, i believe the way I was playing made it 'obvious' I was some kind of PR, and that everyone expected me to be a noob PR. Then in my neighborhood chat that night, I pretty much claimed that I was a protective role of some kind, like a doctor. We had 2 kills night 1, 3 kills night 2. Sure, there's other possibilities, but I do indeed believe I was shot, especially after the WW flip. We probably have mafia/ww/vig in this game.


Ok that is the reasoning that you today (D3) have for thinking you got shot night one, even though you would not have been notified even if you were.

@Boonskiies

What do you make of this? (made on D2 after only two nk's n1)
In post 3053, Garmr wrote:I feel like his a sk because he
<boon>
feels the need to announce the fact his two shot bullet proof
to discourage who ever is shooting from shooting him
<boon>
again.
If he was mafia,werewolf alien what ever he would have his team mates and would probably feel secure.


Which is
Garmr
(Josh) thinking/knowing, before he had seen 3nk on n2, that you had been shot N1.


Yes i had as town wondered if say the Aneninen shot was a misguided vig shot and one of the scum shots went missing (double tap/protect/ ...).
That bolded statement by Garmr is drawing conclusions from it, which indicates level of surety that I don't think a towny could reasonably have.

If a towny had decided they were sure enough in their guess, of more nks they would feel the need to explain, that say nks were required for balance?
Garmr's
(Josh) post reads as if the knowledge is an implicit known sure fact.
However if
scum!Garmr
knows his team shot boon, and forgot that only his team knows that, then its a TMI slip.


(That why my vote on joshB/
garmr
today BTW)
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Post Post #4922 (isolation #713) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:17 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4914, Slandaar wrote:
In post 4911, goodmorning wrote:That would be even better play.

Yeah, because it is working so well.

Do you realize the good play from Beastscum would have been to just... read the thread and start posting? which he has done to some degree. I know, mind blown, that is just insane, good play is to
kamikaze
someone.


yes good play for me in that situation would have been to just play. I am pretty sure i could have got enough done to achieve wait and see status. However did beast think that Beast could just play and get out of the problem?

If beast is WW(who are now one behind scum in MB), and he
thinks
reinoe is mafiascum, then fake claiming a red check to get the lynch could be a pretty sweet outcome(if hes right about reinoe).
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Post Post #4934 (isolation #714) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:40 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4927, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 4910, AxleGreaser wrote:

[..deletia..]
...
...
meanwhile

VOTE: beastcharizard

I believe he is not a cop.
I believe he has no red check.


Can you give reasons for this?

Well given there are two reasons in the post, what is the question?

however here are new reasons
In post 4930, beastcharizard wrote:I totally lied about finding that post. At least for now. [...]

Well its a reason for now.

In post 4860, AxleGreaser wrote:
@Beast

In post 4828, beastcharizard wrote:Wow, how convenient that you just happen to be the same role that i claimed.

GM, I didn't want to put myself by calling reinoe mafia so I tried to get someone else to say mafia was in the game first so I didn't look look like a cop.


also please re write the bold above using more words.
(I guess about 3 times as many or more in at leats 3 sentences.) Ta.


@Beast

Do note I am also still waiting, for you to write in clearer way what you were thinking when you wrote the quoted (bolded above) "GM, I didnt..."

I understand real life gets in the way at times, I even understand that you were not going to find something in my filter that was unimportant enough that you forgot where it was and also have failed to even vaguely describe it... hmmm. :|

However not having found the time to even clarify what a single sentence that you recently said meant... that is more troubling. Smells like stalling.
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Post Post #4935 (isolation #715) » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:57 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4933, Izariael wrote:I doubt all of the above claims are town (and certainly one between beast/reinoe is lying, right?) given that we have the following:


given there is also a red check and not bastard and is normal(no sanities?) then one or both is bound to be lying.


Town JOAT (bodyguard/commuter) :right: Tiershift
Vigilante (I'm speculating that it's limited, hence why I don't think Boon was shot on night one. I don't think there was a Vigi shot at all on night 1)


I give some weight to the theory of there only being 2 shots on night one.

However it has a small problem

@Izariael

Do you have reason you think scum would have shot Aneninen? Why?

Also.
I'd be especially interested in why (in your opinion, from your POV), if Garmr TSO and Axle are all town: Why scum would have shot Aneninen?

I have what is known as a bob each way.
scum
!Garmr or
scum
!TSO's team shooting
Aneninen
makes a mess go away a bit, or at least get less critical and topical.
If a
vig
shot
Anen
, then as shown earlier, Garmr has TMI on the probable boon shot.
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Post Post #4994 (isolation #716) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:30 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4990, Thor665 wrote:I'm mildly confused why I'm the first one pushing for this clarification.

because (operating the assumption he is possibly scum and making shit up)
I have been struggling with just how to do it?
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Post Post #4995 (isolation #717) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:32 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4930, beastcharizard wrote:V/LA until Monday the 1st of December

and he claimed this too (but has since seemingly changed his RL plans), so I was kind of in hold mode until his monday, and was thus getting on with my life.
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Post Post #4997 (isolation #718) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:49 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4993, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 4990, Thor665 wrote:@Beast - I will say I'm curious why you haven't engaged on this guilty/not guilty v. mafia/not mafia matrix.

Why doun't you clarify your role for us as specifically as you can?
What was your specific result?
What does your role say/not say as regards your ability to detect Werewolf v. Mafia?

I'm mildly confused why I'm the first one pushing for this clarification.


Everytime someone brings this up I just want to ask the mod to clarify but that would be a dick move because it would force the mod to tell everyone Reinoe is lying.

I can choose one person to investigate and get the results: "Your target is not guilty", "Your target is guilty" or "No Result"

My result was: "Your target is guilty"

It doesn't say anything about detecting mafia or werewolves it just says I choose someone to investigate and get back said results.


If that is the case why were you in this post earlier fishing for someone else to say there is a mafia faction in the game?
In post 4812, beastcharizard wrote:
Also, I am curious if we think this is a WW only game or if mafia is in it too.
That is a legit question after the freaking WW flip. Your whole post was bad.


you explain that here
In post 4867, beastcharizard wrote:
rephrase:
@GM: I only asked about setup spec so that
someone else would introduce the idea of mafia being in the game.
I felt like if I just out and said I thought reinoe was mafia that the mafia would realize I was some sort of investigative role because they only people who would know that mafia is in the game is: 1. Mafia, 2. Power roles who are searching for mafia.


Which is you claiming you knew there were mafia and not just WW in the game (what you were fishing for other people to say in 4812 (above))

So why if you only have red check on Reinoe, (and dont know whther he is WW or mafia==not faction cop) do you need to fish for other people to propose that there is mafia in the game?

and that you knew it because of your power role (because outing that you knew that would have made you look like an investigative role)


@Thread
scum!beast
has an easy explanation,
scum!beast
wants to lynch what he believes to be mafia reinoe.

@Slaandar
Oh yes it might be suicide, the mafia might well then shoot him at night.. but hey mafia were trying to lynch him today. WW are losing the cross kill race they cant afford to lose a second WW to the lynch today.
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Post Post #4998 (isolation #719) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:51 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4996, beastcharizard wrote:This weekend is my birthday as yall will see sunday. I am just staying up super late tonight. I should already be sleeping.

There is no way to push the debate on results until one of us flips.


as I said, your RL life events changed. (I was only explaining why I stopped dead when i was seemingly pursuing this point all along)

and there does appear to be way to push things without flips and red checks and roles,
its called playing mafia.
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Post Post #5003 (isolation #720) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:00 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@thread (probably not part of todays action just me sorting stuff out)

In post 4985, Josh_B wrote:OK nothing new has really happened. I still believe beast charizard's claim over reinoe's. because...

In post 4945, reinoe wrote:I did nvestigate boon.
I got a
not-mafia
result.
Cuz you know his claim was dicey and that's what a good cop would do.


doesn't make total sense when there's a
werewolf
faction.


As you know I scum read your predecessors actions. You're not him perhaps you can look town to me?

explain how it didn't at that time make sense to you?
(I don't care if you have changed your mind. I want to know what you thought when you made that post.)

It wont I expect be highly alignment indicative, but hey we seem to be lynching someone else today for sure, so every little bit helps?
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Post Post #5005 (isolation #721) » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:05 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4999, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 4997, AxleGreaser wrote:If that is the case why were you in this post earlier fishing for someone else to say there is a mafia faction in the game?


I am under the assumption cops only find mafia.

Thats funny (peculiar scummy)

earlier you thought this made reinoe scum
In post 4867, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 4826, reinoe wrote:You'll all be happy to know that I got a not-mafia result on boonskies. Because that's how cops in multi-ball get results. Not in the forM of "guilty" "not guilty".


This post can literally only come from scum. Multiball can't be confirmed until a flip of mafia is seen. They know they are mafia so they know it is multiball.


and yet you were fishing for someone else to suggest there was mafia in the game? due to you being a cop?
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Post Post #5008 (isolation #722) » Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:17 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 4971, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4970, beastcharizard wrote:If I am lynched for some dumb reason, yall are going to flash lynch Reinoe tomorrow right?

If you flip even night cop - clearly yes.
If not - clearly no.

Why even ask this?


Err becuase he is not.

If he was it would not be a question he would even think about?
if he was a cop he could be smug in knowledge it would happen not be looking to make deals.
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Post Post #5044 (isolation #723) » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:36 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5030, Thor665 wrote:I will admit to doubt vis-a-vi running a sacrifice play to tag an even night cop.
I would feel bad for his scumbuddies if that was what he was doing - of course I feel sympathy for anyone aligned with him in this game...though that applies to a number of players.


Why is the only possibility you consider is

it single ball and he is trying to lynch someone he thinks is town? (scum role copped, a town cop and fake premptively CC'd, instead of shooting)

If its multiball and he thinks or knows that reinoe is mafias... getting him lynched is bad how, especially vs the seeming to him possibility that the other faction was gunning to lynch him today?

You appear somewhat limited in the scope of your thinking. I am wondering if its an actual limitation or affectation.
Spoiler: a mans gotta know his limitations
In post 5021, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4994, AxleGreaser wrote:I have been struggling with just how to do it?

Do what I did - ask him a direct question.
It's a secret and magical way of forcing a direct answer.


Really whoda thunk all those hours and practice I spent learning about open and closed questions, were just pshaw, and that direct questions always got what you want.

The problem was, that I wanted commitment without him going back and checking his own posts to make sure all his ducks were in a row.

Remember D1, you said "it was safe assumption...", but the thing was I knew of multiple interpretations of "safe assumption" (game theoretically safe play && statistically safe that its likely enough to be true, that it needs to be allowed for, && statistically more likely than not to be true). Getting you to say enough words to commit to one or the other of those when you didnt even know all three existed and were different and some were true and some were not..
Is yeah tricky.

Heaven and earth Horatio.
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Post Post #5048 (isolation #724) » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:26 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5043, Thor665 wrote:(and, heck, the whole rolecop/suicide play applies equally if you're scum, really, so it's a very thin defense you're sitting on)


scum!beast doesnt (or may not have absolute knowledge of Reinoes alignment)

If Beast believes reinoe is scum(mafia), and that he(believed to be scumreinoe) and reinoes (team mates) were doing push to lynch him, to secure mafia (not WW) as the way most likely non town faction to win... (3M vs 1 WW)
Then beast can make the play.

beast can be wrong.
so yeah we need not to do
In post 5043, Thor665 wrote:Town mislynched me anyways because town is dumb and sheeps PRs whenever they get the
excuse to shut down their brains and not do that painful "thinking" business.


We have to decide for ourselves is Beast scum, fake claiming for one of several scenarios.

and even if he is fake claiming and scum

Does that make Reinoe scum or town or do we still have to do that awful thinking stuff?

Some things mean we can mainly take our thinking hats off....

If beast flips town cop at some point, it is very likely he didn't lie about the check.

If Reinoe flips town cop at some point, it is even more very likely he didn't lie about the check.

most other thing means we still ought mainly decide for ourselves.

In particular a scum mafia Reinoe flip does not mean absolutely Beast is town or a cop.
A scum beast flip, does not mean abolutely Reinoe was actually town cop.

I suggest we lynch scummy people.

I am voting beast as i find his actions and reasoning today scummy, convenient and shallow(façade like) .
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Post Post #5053 (isolation #725) » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:02 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5051, goodmorning wrote:
In post 5043, Thor665 wrote:You being town gives us confirmed BP town in Boonderp though - which is at least amusing as scum lose that easy as pie mislynch.

...nooooo, it would be confirmed not-Mafia Boon who could still be SK or WW or whatever.

@Axle: Have you asked me those questions yet?



as it turned out, I have changed my mind about where I want to go today, and I have I had other things to do.
Its also kinda more interesting watching you interact as you have been.

have you stopped, pretending for effect, to be not reading my posts?
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Post Post #5054 (isolation #726) » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:33 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5049, Thor665 wrote:You basically used a lot of words to say very little there.


Indeed I did, especially if you consider all the words in and

but I specifically said one or two lines of thinking that you had seemingly shut down thinking about.

this possibility:
Which is:
beast is WW scum who thought Reinoe is a mafia, and the mafia team was trying to lynch him. Beast counter strikes by claiming cop to get a mafia lynched to restore some balance at 2Mv2W. If it pans out then the two anti town factions are again evens. The alternative of ww!beast getting lynched at it being 3M vs 1WW is bad enough that it seems like a good plan.
Even if mafia actually believe the claim that beast is an even night cop, he is only an even night cop...

and this one:
If when beast flip scum, reinoe may be a town cop and beasts faction had role cop(hence the not coincidental matching claims), or Beast thought Reinoe was mafia!scum. Beast may or may not have been right.

Look more words,
you can go on considering your version of events which limits it to which claim is legit town, and merely poor play.

and i will go on also considering the other "painful" options.

Right now I consider Beast more likely to flip scum, specifically WW. At 3v1 I expect the 1 WW to shoot at Mafia as they are the WWs biggest threat.
(if maf get to effectively control the lynch and their shot the one WW is basically doomed)
As that one WW can still shoot one maf a night, mafia need to finish of the WW team.
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Post Post #5056 (isolation #727) » Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:13 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5055, Thor665 wrote:I actually addressed one, and the other is such a long specific longshot it more comfortably falls within another scenario that I also already discussed - and you bringing up both of those considerations has nothing to do with my presented conclusions as neither actually changes the logic I'm using to consider the proper lynch today.



as you lack sufficient words to even define which one you considered and which one you didnt...

Where did you deal with

beast is WW who thought reinoe was mafias trying to lynch him. Hence his play is a plausible not kamikaze driven response.

I see you indicating to reinoe no plausible motive for a 1v1

This for instance specifically assumes 1 is scum as the only option...
it only draws off one scum kill (regardless of whether there will be four or two between here and there) and by the time it sorts it - we could have already had a scum lynch even if picking wrong first, which would be more valuable.


responds to role cop version of events, where the need to react to mafia trying to lynch a WW makes it less imperative. Why would ateam in MB sacrifice member to remove a threat to both?

There was this
In post 5043, Thor665 wrote:Also, I'm really starting to doubt a suicide play run on you - because that is also required to have you be town (and, heck, the whole rolecop/suicide play applies equally if you're scum, really, so it's a very thin defense you're sitting on)

but no that doesnt quite cover it,

as the play is not suicide to flip a mafia as WW, and does not depend on there being a role cop
if beast is a WW who he thought maf were trying to lynch Beast. Flipping mafia reinoe would even it up at 2v2, and beats would think that meant mafia had to shoot beast. In that case maf and WW are in a 2v2 shoot out again. Indeed best case scenario was mafia believe beats is a neutered (N4) cop and simply don't shoot him as they are looking for the WW's to get ahead again.

So no dismissing it as a suicide play is just wrong.
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Post Post #5113 (isolation #728) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:59 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5103, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 5085, reinoe wrote:
In post 5081, T S O wrote:because he irrationally thought playing his usual game would get him bulletss

Wouldn't that kind of paranoia come from scum worried about cross-kills?

Sure, if they knew the game was multiball. So there is the flaw in that logic.

strike out mine..
<sigh>
3 players in scum team => MB
5 players in scum team => SB

4 players in scum team... (was SB but with 18 in 166) (was SB in a 20P, but with beefy (encrytor + joat + tracker) in 169) (but was MB 164, but had naff all, and town was beefy.)
so yeah scum has very good idea whether it is MB or not.

I am Town and
I even know that scums knows.
not sure why you say you dont.

next.
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Post Post #5118 (isolation #729) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:53 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5113, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5103, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 5085, reinoe wrote:
In post 5081, T S O wrote:because he irrationally thought playing his usual game would get him bulletss

Wouldn't that kind of paranoia come from scum worried about cross-kills?

Sure, if they knew the game was multiball. So there is the flaw in that logic.

strike out mine..
<sigh>
3 players in scum team => MB
5 players in scum team => SB

4 players in scum team... (was SB but with 18 in 166) (was SB in a 20P, but with beefy (encrytor + joat + tracker) in 169) (but was MB 164, but had naff all, and town was beefy.)
so yeah scum has very good idea whether it is MB or not.

I am Town and
I even know that scums knows.
not sure why you say you dont.

next.


In post 5114, beastcharizard wrote:Actually it depends on the power of the Scum team and if there is a SK.

Not to mention, where does it state that there are only 3 people on a scum team? Just show me where it says that.


yeah well duh
of course it depends on the pwoer of the scum team which they know.

It does not say there are 3 scum anywhere except perhaps in the scums role PMs and no matter what (pretty much the scums role PMs tells them who is in their team hence how many hence a damn good guues at whetehr or not it is MB

and yes you are playing the town slip I dont know how many scum and if its MB to the hilt, <clap clap>

but no it is obvious that any player who is scum will have a very very good idea whether or not the game is MB.
So as stated your 5103 that I crossed out above is BS.

In post 5116, goodmorning wrote:
In post 5114, beastcharizard wrote:Not to mention, where does it state that there are only 3 people on a scum team? Just show me where it says that.

overly defensive response is overly defensive


yes it seems like it to me.
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Post Post #5121 (isolation #730) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:08 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5117, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5101, Flubbernugget wrote:Like I really don't wanna read any of this.

^
someone explain to me why I should doubt Beasts cop claim.


Wow.
Lots of reasons. How many would you like?

First and foremost, to me if I knew the game was single ball, Id find it far easier to accept or at least decide that
scum making play that is at best a one for one trade is a bad idea.

However we flipped a WW, and there were reasonble odds on MB before that, and there is a lot of kills and one possible cross kill.
I dont know its MB but the odds on it being so have gone up a bit.
Also earlier today both Beast and Reinoe were both making claims that it was in fact MB, best is kinda retracting that by implication later in the day (which for me makes his claim dodgier, but reopens the possibility of SB)

Anyway, if beast is member of one faction and he believes (but can still be right or wrong) that Reinoe is a member of the other faction. then it is a makes some sense play to claim a cop check on reinoe.
Claiming some relatively inoffensive role such as even night town cop. may even mean that if Reinoe is scum and best flips reinoe, then town and reinoes scum team may actually believe the claim (hey look you are) and the scum team not shoot him. After all why bother until night 4 at least.

As there is perfectly good reason for scum beast to make the play, deciding whether it is scum beast fake claiming or town beast an actual confused (not faction cop)cop

is matter of playing mafia and making read.

I currently believe beast is a WW who thought reinoe was a mafia. Well I believe it enough to be pushing it and see what happens.

So what do you actually think.

All that ^^^ is in the thread. You did read it?
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Post Post #5129 (isolation #731) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:37 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5126, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5121, AxleGreaser wrote:So what do you actually think.

I think your reason for doubting the cop claim is bullshit. Yes, it makes some sense mafiawise to fakeclaim a guilty to get an
important role lynched
but I really don't see that as a reason to not believe he's a cop.

Err that would be becuase you seem to claim to not understand what I said.

Get WHAT
important role lynched?
(my most likely scenario is WW!beast thinks reinoe is mafia and beast is trying to lynch someone he thought was mafia.)

So while it can make some sense for mafia f\to try hard to get a cop lynched that not what my rad relies on. (although I regard it as possible but significantly less likely)

So if you want to call what i am saying bullshit please actually argue against what I am saying and not some other bullshit.

TBF, I haven't been paying much attention but I don't think anyone claimed a faction cop. Can you quote this for me?

Ahhh

Well that would explain stuff....

Reinoe claimed to get mafia not mafia results.
Earlier Beats claimed to be a cop that got guilty or not guilty (which he at the time) claime meant his guilty check on reinoe indicated mafia
Its only kind of later he changed that.

if you dont even know the progression of events I have no doubt you think my reads are bullshit.

Also FWIW, it even seems fairly likely to me beast was right and Reinoe is not town, probably mafia.
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Post Post #5130 (isolation #732) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:40 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5127, Nero Cain wrote:Ren did NOT claim to be a faction cop.


please explain what kind of cop this is him claiming to be then?

In post 4945, reinoe wrote:I did nvestigate boon.
I got a not-mafia result
. Cuz you know his claim was dicey and that's what a good cop would do.
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Post Post #5131 (isolation #733) » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:43 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5127, Nero Cain wrote:So to me it looks like Ren is lying here and we should lynch the fuck out of the Beast wagon when Ren flips scum.


I hope you mean lynch, beats when Ren flips mafia?

Which is precisely, in agreement with the case I have made...

I believe beast is WW, who is faking a claim on a guy he believes is mafia.
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Post Post #5135 (isolation #734) » Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:01 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5133, Slandaar wrote:
In post 5101, Flubbernugget wrote:Like I really don't wanna read any of this.

Come on Flubsy we need you. Help us to inflate the post count!


wouldnt count on it helping.

I think town wincon is best aided by lynching beast the WW first, then deciding if he faked a guilty on what he thought was town or the other faction

however I think I can nearly convince myself that flipping Reinoe who I believe to be reasonably likely to be mafia would clear some stuff up even if it does leave the teams probably 2v2.

(I think I have assumed in thread the teams in MB would be 3v3 as per history.)

@thread.
does anyone think the day is still going anywhere interesting?
(esp people on the beast wagon, are you actually wedded to getting your guy lynched?)

also there may be fringe benefits.
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Post Post #5158 (isolation #735) » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:47 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5146, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5131, AxleGreaser wrote:I believe beast is WW, who is faking a claim on a guy he believes is mafia.

So if you think that they are both scum why do you care which scum gets lynched?


There is the question of how much i think it.
I think Beast is a WW who beast.thinks it is likely Reinoe is a mafia, and so ran a fake claim (that works <not suicide> because its MB)
No while i think that WW.beast thinks that, and i think I agree with him there is the question of how much I think its true.

(I dont actually yet know, how I read the later parts of todays play, I keep getting mixed messages.)

Reinoes was always the obvious knee jerk dont think about it wagon,and in SB would have just happened. So making sure the lynch got actually thought about and alignment indictaive posts got made, made me trying to lynch beast my play for the day.
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Post Post #5179 (isolation #736) » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:09 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5172, Nero Cain wrote:I just love how everyone is ignoring the possibility of a sk to prove some point. Its prob one 4 man team and a sk.
IF
Ren was a faction cop there'd be another faction cop. Though I am NOT in favor of any other potential cop claim.


I am not either which is why i never mentioned that and why you should not have.

So you say it is probably that. Do you have any reason?
or you just decided to say its probably that. I agree the nks need explaining. I have multiple explanations some are standard on this site
and AFAIK some would have to have to have been borrowed from setup meta from other sites..



I
hate
all of the following:

Shiro saying that Beast backtracked and claimed GS.

While he did not literally claim gunsmith
he did initially claim
In post 4867, beastcharizard wrote:@GM: I only asked about setup spec so that someone else would introduce the idea of mafia being in the game. I felt like if I just out and said I thought reinoe was mafia that the mafia would realize I was some sort of investigative role because they only people who would know that mafia is in the game is: 1. Mafia, 2. Power roles who are searching for mafia.

Which is not very clear but still clear enough claim he is in effect a "faction cop" who knows this is MB and he has a guilty which he knows is on a mafia. (aka he is faction cop, == detects one faction)

Later (but conveniently
after
my theory that MB makes his play perfectly fine by scum WW) he claims to have (
talked to the mod
/
reread his PM
/dunno) and found out he actually get guilty on ANY non town player
In post 4993, beastcharizard wrote:I can choose one person to investigate and get the results: "Your target is not guilty", "Your target is guilty" or "No Result"

My result was: "Your target is guilty"

It doesn't say anything about detecting mafia or werewolves it just says I choose someone to investigate and get back said results.


and yet after that more loosely again says
In post 5016, beastcharizard wrote:Yes it would piss me off. That is what it would do. WE HAVE A GUARANTEED MAFIA LYNCH! Why in your right mind would you want to skip over that?


So yeah i find his play incongruous,backtracking, and all kinds of things (mostly not credible), initially Beast claimed to know there were mafia in the game and has guilty on one, but later claims his role PM says no such thing and only gets guilty or not and then later again says guaranteed "mafia" lynch, not guaranteed not town, or guaranteed scum

Now while a towny being sloppy with words explains that
so does scum WW with TMI, about the fact that there are mafia in the game.


Ren and Shiro ignoring the possibility of that 2nd kill from an sk.
Boon and Axle now saying that they are both scum.


I dont mind you
hating
it... but as it is clearly plausible and in my view likely that both are scum (WW && mafia)

Would you like to explain any reason at all you dont like it. (AKA play the game)


In post 5153, reinoe wrote:f you knew I claimed Even-Night Cop why does it matter to you that I did not claim faction cop, which is not even a normal role?

So you are claiming to be a faction cop when you believe that a faction cop is a non normal mechanic? :igmeou:

Faction cops appeared to be considered normal in
game 168

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=37208
from game summary: Game 168: The Mod is Dead, Fire and Ice Edition wrote:penguin_alien replaces JKLM, Town One-Shot
Ice Cop
, died Night 4



I still don't buy Rens cop claim but part of me is almost like let them both live and lynch someone else scummy today like Axle or Shiro.


Oh goody, not only do you dismiss that they can both be scum (WW & mafia) now you want to lynch elsewhere?
Does it come with reasons?
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Post Post #5181 (isolation #737) » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:34 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@thor I often find some direct questions to be bad play as they contain implicit information.
Here is direct question that i think gets at what i want to know indirectly.

On number of occasions (games) i have seen you hold the view that needlessly prolonging the day is waste of time and it just lets stuff get clouded/tired/bored/unfocussed/....

In your opinion, Is time being usefully used at the moment or should the day end.
one of these answers is sufficient.
yes day ought end
or
no stuff is happening.
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Post Post #5182 (isolation #738) » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:36 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5180, beastcharizard wrote:I just can't fathom why all the scum are just giving themselves up for my lynch. I just don't get it. Like the scum are so obvious after I flip or even after Reinoe flips.


So fine please explain which ones are which and why?
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Post Post #5186 (isolation #739) » Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:26 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5183, beastcharizard wrote:I already made a post of whom I know is scum.

Reinoe, Goodmorning and AxleGreaser are all on the same team. Shiro I am pretty sure is WW because of my subpar analysis and the fact that they never really responded to my accusation.

Boonskiis might fit in there somewhere but I like thinking he is just misguided town.

I mean you guys are just lining up like ducks in a row to be flash lynched. While I appreciate it, it kind of makes the game a little less fun. You all are banking on the fact that I am going to flip WW or something not town to save you asses. Well guess what! I am going to flip town so you all are done, toast, finished, finito.


So now you are convinced it is MB?
And you know you know GM who is not voting for you is (on the same team but not WW, as you claim we expect you may flip WW)

also you know we are scum yet Thor who is voting you isnt... (presumably hes just wrong, but you have not clrified why you make the distinctions)

and Shiro is WW due to your sub par analysis? (WTF?)

and even though earlier you claimed this bargaining
In post 4970, beastcharizard wrote:@everyone:
If I am lynched for some dumb reason, yall are going to flash lynch Reinoe tomorrow right?


was related to this more realistic understanding of how towns react
In post 5015, beastcharizard wrote:People have said they believed both our claims and neither of our claims. That means people still think we could both be town or scum. I don't need people going: "Reinoe is just dumb town fake claiming, lets keep him alive." or anything of the sort. Hell someone could suggest I didn't even inspect reinoe and the way this is going yall wouldn't even pursue the lynch tomorrow.


you now claim
Well guess what! I am going to flip town so you all are done, toast, finished, finito.


and yes i expect, if as i guess you are scum WW, your partner may or may not bus you.
and if I am wrong and you are town, then while some of reinoes team mates may vote you others will hide doing nothing or even vote reinoe.

So you explanation of why is really rather absent.
In post 5182, AxleGreaser wrote:So fine please explain which ones are which and why?

and what there is is rather incongruous with your earlier statements that understood townies might actually not believe your claim even after you flipped.

False bravado 101.
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Post Post #5192 (isolation #740) » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:46 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5187, beastcharizard wrote:
You are right, I never once said that Thor was town because of how Reinoe was attacking him. Nope, not me. That was once again that fake beastcharizard that goes around pretending to be me. Damn that guy.

I came into today think I only got guilties on mafia since I was a cop but it was not specified until later that I may have mad a bad assumption with that assumption. And yes I think Shiro is WW based off of that single post. Am I going to persue that right now? Not a chance when I have confirmed scum to lynch first. I will sort out Shiro eventually myself. I may be wrong there, who knows.


Hint if you break up quotes (by manually
inserting

[
quote] stuff you are quoting
[
/quote] .your stuff outside the slit up quote
[
quote]
rest of stuff you are quoting
[
/quote]
and put your reply outside the quote it is easier to deal with, that is if having a discourse is your aim.


Well id be embarrased to admit the reads you've been making too.
In post 4782, beastcharizard wrote:Thor is leaning town because of how Reinoe treats them. I don't see them being partners together.

and thus you claim know that Reinoe is in the only scum team? because you have ruled out Thor being scum on the other team
Spoiler: @thread. / funny ha ha or not
So bearing in mind that I claim beast is probably WW and reinoe is probably (but I think maybe a bit less probably) mafia.

Beasts read on Thor, is that as Beast thinks Thor is not on the same team as Reinoe then Thor must be town.
How could a possibly town Beast know that? (know that Thor is not on a different scum team to Reinoe) ... hint he cant.
How would WW beast know that? he looks at his WW pm and checks to see if Thor is in his team.

really actually funny.

Beast you consider thing outside of who is on your wagon in the case of Thor, yet for the rest of your reads, everyone thinking you are scum WW, is so unbelievable (for as yet unstated reasons) that you claim the rest of the people voting you are all scum?
That is hell of a bizzare basis for a read.

I was scum for one post out of 700+, that you have had no need to find again or verify that your interpretation that you claim screamed scum is in fact valid. Indeed it turned out to be such minor thing that when challenged about it, you wimp out...
In post 4930, beastcharizard wrote:I totally lied about finding that post. At least for now. You have too freaking many posts for me to find it at this time. For now I will move you to null since I don't have said post to have a read off of.


really you give me null gee wizz, you do understand i didn't actually give a rats about your read on me, except in the sense of finding out was it genuine misread or a fake expedient scum one.
Guess what offering to reduce it to null means...
especially when it tramps back up to OMGUS youre all scum proportions, when i scum read you.
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Post Post #5204 (isolation #741) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:34 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5200, Izariael wrote:I haven't voted yet because I've been intent on evaluating which claim is more likely fabricated...


I have multiple scenarios as possible, and the one I am driving as most likely.

It gets trickier than that... because from my POV there exist the possibility the fabricator is town...

Spoiler: unlikely to happen illustrative example
Hypothetical.... (yeah i have to stretch to get enough things mod confirmed but its the scenario that counts, not how likely this is to happen tonight/today)
If say we lynch Beast and he flips WW, and a WW &&a maf gets shot tonight, and still no WW rolecop... but now certainly MB.

does that mean Reinoe is scum as he didnt get role copped by WW? (so the coincidence of the claims is bleh?)

Well nope. It makes it very likely he(ren) fake claimed, but did he do that as town or scum....


Re: Slaandars point.
Spoiler: extends the above spoiler
Axle views:
most likely true thing beast is WW
next most likely true thing Reinoe fake claimed.
next most likely thing Reinoe fake claimed and is not town
next most likely thing Reinoe fake claimed and is town.

I dont regard Reinoes fake claim as automagically synonymous with scum. What should town with fake red check on them do? Even if that is what you claim town ought do, what do you think Reinoe would do?

To lynch Reinoe i need to decide Reinoe is scum not just fake claiming under duress.
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Post Post #5217 (isolation #742) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:14 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5209, Thor665 wrote:
In post 5204, AxleGreaser wrote:I dont regard Reinoes fake claim as automagically synonymous with scum. What should town with fake red check on them do? Even if that is what you claim town ought do, what do you think Reinoe would do?

:neutral:


and what?

Is there some reason you believe a town reinoe (with known to him to fake red check on him wouldn't fake claim something?)

You may think its bad idea, I am not arguing its good, but are you sure he wouldnt do that?
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Post Post #5235 (isolation #743) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:57 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5223, Izariael wrote:
In post 5202, Thor665 wrote:How are you evaluating them?
I see no effort in that regard and would love to see you show your work.


Well, given that it's been a week of holiday festivites and overtime work with Black Friday and Cyber Monday, I've been busier than usual and haven't had much time for posting. I have tried to keep up with reading though.

I'm currently in favour of a beast lynch, though beast's comment of being of use tomorrow does ring as a valid claim. However, I do see rolecop on a non-town team as a distinct possibility and fits in with the sequence of events imo.


you appear in your analysis not to be considering this sequence
In post 4856, AxleGreaser wrote:If beast is WW, and WW
consensus
last night was that Reinoe was in the mafia team, then if under pressure, WW faking red check on guessed scum Reinoe, would be ... cleverish? (not crack?)

So apart from the role cop reason
scum!
Beast might fake the claim, there is also the reason that
scum(WW)!
Beast may think Reinoe is mafia on the other team.

As both people I suspect of having TMI (being in a scum faction) about whther this is multiball or not, both claimed quite strongly that it is multiball today.
Reinoe here
In post 4826, reinoe wrote:You'll all be happy to know that I got a not-mafia result on boonskies. Because that's how cops in multi-ball get results.


and Beast here
In post 4828, beastcharizard wrote:GM, I didn't want to put myself by calling reinoe mafia so I tried to get someone else to say mafia was in the game first so I didn't look look like a cop.

but has since claimed his cop ness, no longer implies he only checks for mafia. (His Pm gives guilty and not)

Id even go so far as to suggest that for me it is highly likely to be MB.

Sig improvement <yadda + Silly (Non Cookie Cutter) gambits: The designer drug of playing Mafia.>
pedit been ninja'd. meh
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Post Post #5239 (isolation #744) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:20 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5227, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2, Aegor wrote:nor are your role PMs misleading in any way

@Beast - :wink:

Let's watch the mod wriggle at Nero's question though.


ninja'd by the mod!
Spoiler: Just in case i decide to mod
I will be able to link to here as my non mod confirming non alignment indicative response. I can be less PC here.

PSA:
Hypothetical ways players can find things out about hypothetically normal games.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... rmal_Roles

Hypothetical ways players can fail to find things out.

Try to play mafia against the mod instead of the players.

Hypothetical ways players can find out things about their own role.

In the event the PM despite pregame review was unclear, (or the player lacks the experience to understand the clearly expressed PM) Pming the mod may get you effectively an expanded PM about your role.
It may even point to which bits of wiki are meaningful.

Lastly fair warning
: playing mafia against the hypothetical Axle!mod would implicitly make you not on his team... and playing against his mod!wincon. Axle thinks Axle would be bad mod as he is inherently a bastard in such situations and he might stand close to the line.
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Post Post #5242 (isolation #745) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:47 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

Spoiler: more PSA
goodmorning wrote:
In post 5225, Nero Cain wrote:I do not think he was. Like scum is a catchall for anything that is anti-town. I and several players use that. A werewolf faction is STILL a mafia faction 'cause its a scum faction. I could see Beast being non specific and calling you mafia.

...what.

a=c
b=c
a=b

is totally correct in math.
But this is
not that kind of math
. This is
set theory math
. (BTW >>>>>everything<<<<< (that works consistently) is MATH)(tying knots in strings is topology... and so forth)

WW ⊂(is an element of the set) { Scum Factions }
Mafia ⊂(is an element of the set) { Scum Factions }
Alien ⊂(is an element of the set) { Scum Factions }
Goo ⊂(is an element of the set) { Scum Factions }

⊂(is an element of)
is not a symmetric operator

Thus it is clear that
WW =/=Mafia
WW=/=Alien
WW=/=Goo

and so forth.

Like, the kitchen is a room, and the bathroom is a room, but the kitchen is not the bathroom and what i am trying to say is
what the fuck
it is year 7(13 yr old) math for heavens sake.

PS for any current actual mathematicians in the room, yeah sorry.
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Post Post #5243 (isolation #746) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:58 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5240, Nero Cain wrote:Axle, who is scum if Beast flips town?


He claimed a red check on Reinoe. (as his awesome days play)
So if Beast flips town (and the game is normal no death millers(who lie about their flips)) then either Reinoe is scum or town probably deserves to lose.

did you have real question?
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Post Post #5244 (isolation #747) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:01 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

err LOL
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Post Post #5246 (isolation #748) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:23 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5240, Nero Cain wrote:Axle, who is scum if Beast flips town?


This did not say name the whole team.

In post 5245, Nero Cain wrote:ok yeah. Ren is obv but there'd still be like 2-4 more scum. Any reason you are afraid to name names?


also you are asking me to speculate about he whole team under an assumption i have not been actively considering.

If I am wrong about beats I need to re-evaluate lots of stuff about how I play the game, and make reads and just how townies will plausibly play as i find his play highly implausible as town. However flip would change that.
The there are the associative tells. I know i am town but who else was pushing for a an unlikely l but you say hypothetical town beast. Which people were actually TMI wking and which were legitimate.

yeah if i am wrong about beast, I expect significant amounts of my current reads to change.

Afraid to name names? FFS.

I been voting and pushing TSO D1, Josh B D2 and voted him again at the start of today. There is some names.
I have had serious suspicions of GM's posting. I have questioned yours, I have ...gak only knows.

TSO and GM have played somewhat differently recently.

I have 700+ frickin posts and you having failed to troll the host want to drag me of down some hypothetical what if beast is town who is scum then path?

BTW something top of the mind of scum teams at this moment is working out which town patsy, to setup for lylo....
so yeah some of my reads and the reasons for them are mine.. and not in the thread yet. Are you claiming I should have said even more stuff....?
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Post Post #5284 (isolation #749) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:25 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5274, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 5272, T S O wrote:prime night cop

how about fucking no, beast

vote: beastcharizard


no idea if I was doing this already but seriously what the fuck


So you are going to lynch me because you don't like my actual role? Tell me how any of what I have done equates to scum me.

Think for a second TSO, I actually tried to crumb some sort of hint to this. Do you think I planned this all along as an elaborate claim change for town credit or is it more likely that what I said is true and that I claimed even night so I could be kept alive and get another result?

Also if I am kept alive scum have to shoot me or run the risk of being copped.


Hi.
Spoiler: crumbs
FYI crumbing works like this. You crumb something that when viewed in hindsight matches what you claim and not a lot else. Normally that is hard as you have to crumb something everybody knows to look for however in your case you claim you were blessed with the unique possibility of crunbing something seriously unbelieveable, hence unexpected, a prime night cop.
There are 7 ways you were lucky with that. In that if you had been delayed because of your prime rib roast dinner. or 3 blind mice could have found your crumbs. And the prime candidates for that would have been .... and FFS there are 17 different ways that is arse up. 5 days a week Id have believed you, but i get weekends off. 19 days to my birthday woot.
and if the first 6 or 7 prime numbers were somewhere in your posts... and the word prime, then it would be holy WTF maybe he at least always planned this.
but math as crumb for prime... come on.
math is the crumb for fibonacci, perfects squares triangular numbers, ... there is no aha moment.
BTW, I do understand and expect all my crumbing will forever suck, even though I know that ^^^^, so I expect wont play and try to rely on them


and nope I dont think you planned this all along, and i dont think you crumbed prime. I think you went back and found it.

I also think you noticed my argument earlier that, as an even night cop, you not getting shot would not even look surprising as you wont get another check until N4 and even then with two teams you are a threat to both, how do they decide which one shoots you and avoids the double tap. Thus you needed a way to not be that, so you changed your claim. What was odd was you changed your claim then claimed that somehow made a difference to who we ought vote, but you never explained how or why you had outed that you claim you had another check tomorrow.

Thus as claiming even cop, does not put a target on your back, you claiming cop with red check on a guy you think is from the other scum team, made total sense as scum.
upping your risk only when close to lynch also makes sense.


Does you claiming cop as town make sense?

yes you went through the motions of trying to get your read lynched. but did it feel like a genuine effort that tried like towny until you gave up in frustration? Nope, it looked half hearted to me.

yes (as scum or town) you thought that Reinoe was on the other scum team yesterday and scum read him yesterday, so no that is not uniquely towny either.

basically from might point of view. That you claimed a red check means we are forced today to 1v1 you and reinoe...
but other than that
I am ignoring it and lynching the scummiest guy first.
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Post Post #5285 (isolation #750) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:32 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5281, beastcharizard wrote:I claimed my real role as a last resort so we at least get a scum lynch today and scum HAVE to shoot me tonight.

If its MB which team would have to shoot you?


If I were scum this would literally be a suicide mission for no damn reason. I know I could have gotten out of being today's lynch as scum.


I dont know that, indeed as you were at L-1 and as you pointed out GM was all up for lynching you, you appeared to be on tic toc time for me.

Also
What the actual fuck.

I know I could have gotten out of being today's lynch as scum.


So as scum you claim you know you could have got out of the lynch and so .... we would have lynched... err Aegor? no wed have lynched Reinoe and you *
know
* you could have done that as scum?

Pray tell.

Why didnt you do that as town?

another scum claim....
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Post Post #5286 (isolation #751) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:35 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5272, T S O wrote:prime night cop

how about fucking no, beast

vote: beastcharizard


no idea if I was doing this already but seriously what the fuck

In post 5276, T S O wrote:Because your crumbing is shit and your claim magically happens to make you more useful than reinoe tonight.

And I have seen scum pull this shit before a la PA in fe. you were there too, fwiw.


how come you appear to be making more sense than anyone else?
you must have stopped beating your wife or something... am I rite.
yeah its rhetorical.
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Post Post #5289 (isolation #752) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:01 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5287, beastcharizard wrote:
Spoiler: quote history
In post 5285, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5281, beastcharizard wrote:I claimed my real role as a last resort so we at least get a scum lynch today and scum HAVE to shoot me tonight.

If its MB which team would have to shoot you?


If I were scum this would literally be a suicide mission for no damn reason. I know I could have gotten out of being today's lynch as scum.


I dont know that, indeed as you were at L-1 and as you pointed out GM was all up for lynching you, you appeared to be on tic toc time for me.

Also
What the actual fuck.

I know I could have gotten out of being today's lynch as scum.


[quote="continued from inside spoiler: Axle Wrote:
So as scum you claim you know you could have got out of the lynch and so .... we would have lynched... err Aegor? no wed have lynched Reinoe and you *
know
* you could have done that as scum?

Pray tell.

Why didnt you do that as town?

another scum claim....


My goal as scum would have been to not be lynched. My goal as town is to get scum lynched hence why I claimed when I did and what I did. You wouldn't have lynched Reinoe without me claiming and you know it.[/quote]

Your post was on the topic of you making your prime night role claim

In post 5281, beastcharizard wrote:What did you want me to do? Keep my real role a secret and get lynched then have the whole game be like: "WHy the hell didn't beast claim his real role? That was stupid. I would have believed him if he said he was a prime night cop." I wasn't going to let that happen. Prime night is an odd role variable so in general it is harder to believe which is why I tried to crumb it. I decided to not truthfully claim my modifier because I thought I would get Reinoe lynched then have another chance to find scum tonight.

I claimed my real role as a last resort so we at least get a scum lynch today and scum HAVE to shoot me tonight.

After we lynch reinoe the
chances of me being alive are slim to none
. There is a much greater gain from a reinoe lynch and a much greater loss from a me lynch. You should see that this is the case.



So, in the above up to there, you are talking about your prime night claim (not the original and the red check)
(and NO,
your even night claim was not suicide mission
, which you made when the threat of your lynch as smaller)

As previously explained you being WW claiming check on mafia Reinoe is
not a suicide mission
, best case is Reinoe is mafia, and the mafia team believe your claim and dont even bother shooting you as they think you are just a nerfed town cop, without even a check until n4. (and even that check is risk to both factions, so why should mafia waste a shot.) (not suicide at all)

Your subsequent prime night cop claim does up the risk for you, as scum.mafia faction is probably very sure you are scum.WW, or at worst a cop with claimed N(3,5,7,11)check. but hey lynching him instead of you is strictly a better option at this point in the day.

Spoiler: hypothetical scum thoughts
(frankly i believe scum even if they know you are town, would still think you were an eve night cop) So your suicideness has not in practice changed for me.



If I were scum this would literally be a
suicide mission
for no damn reason. I know I could have gotten out of being today's lynch as scum.

Also,
you not seeing that I am town is going to fuck you over right now today
.

If I am not dead tomorrow then we can lynch me for all I care. I just want the reinoe lynch today. I probably won't live to tomorrow anyway because I have caught half the scum team already and they need me to be shut up.


ReallY? "
Also, you not seeing that I am town is going to fuck you over right now today.
" I thought you were convinced i was scum and part of that half of the scum team you had caught.
You appear to know i am town...

Your ducks don't line up, you're scum.
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Post Post #5290 (isolation #753) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:03 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5288, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 5285, AxleGreaser wrote:If its MB which team would have to shoot you?


If there are two then it would be both. There might just be one, only flips will tell.


but then there would always be the excuse for you not flipping and getting shot that both teams thought the other would shoot you...
so yeah even with the prime night claim, there will be nothing but WIFOM.
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Post Post #5292 (isolation #754) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:08 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5291, beastcharizard wrote:That was to TSO! You can't just choose that my messages are at you.



what was? If I stuffed up the quotes pls tell me. (I dont do that as any alignment == its lame)
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Post Post #5293 (isolation #755) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:15 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@THREAD

yep mea culpa
I fsked up and mistook beast reply to TSO as being to me. sry.

Although this post does not mention TSO in context it is clear it is too TSO.
In post 5281, beastcharizard wrote:Also, you not seeing that I am town is going to fuck you over right now today.



In post 5289, AxleGreaser wrote:ReallY? "Also, you not seeing that I am town is going to fuck you over right now today." I thought you were convinced i was scum and part of that half of the scum team you had caught.
You appear to know i am town...


Your ducks don't line up, you're scum.


yep the rest of the ducks don't line up but that one is a fsk up by Axle.
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Post Post #5297 (isolation #756) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:38 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5296, Nero Cain wrote:Axle is once again pushing a really dumb angle. If he's a town cop or if he's a a scum cop the chances of that not dying is p slim. Like that's just very basic mafia theory. Now scum sometimes will keep a pr alive so all the dumb townies are all like "why isn't that dead. it must be scum!" but the chances of that getting shot are p high.


rubbish

If the game is MB then a town cop is threat to both factions which wastes the shot they could be eliminating the other faction with by shooting the cop? Especially when he (before last even less believable claim) he wasnt an actual cop until N4. The threat he may cop check one of your team and not the pother is was less than the immediate threat of the other scum team wiping your team out.
Shooting preferentially at the other team instead of the cop is entirely plausible excuse for the even night cop not to die tomorrow.

hence I make the argument the play was not suicide.
Not a dumb angle at all. Beasts defense of himself is the play is suicide, I show its not necessarily so.

When you say "Now scum sometimes will keep a pr alive so all the dumb townies are all like "why isn't that dead. it must be scum!"" you are drawing on your experience from sb ball games, and in those yes its true that scums usually shoot cops automatically. So the chnaces if the game is SB are pretty high of getting shot eventually. My point was however, it is not a suicide play by beast.
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Post Post #5299 (isolation #757) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:50 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5294, beastcharizard wrote:WIFOM is probably true no matter what.

Lets go with the scenario that we lynch Reinoe. Reinoe flips scum so we at least know I am not on Reinoe's team. I made the assumption reinoe was mafia at first, but lets say that reinoe flips WW. What then?

Lets say I get another guilty tonight. I would have already gotten one scum lynched so a second one would have to confirm that I am at least some type of cop. If they aren't the same team then it is impossible for me to be scum.

If this is SB then I will never be in the clear until we win or I am lynched and flip town.


Lots of ifs.

reasons to think it is more likely than random to be MB.
Yes you did say the game was MB originally. You stopped saying it was MB well after I pointed it was not suicide play by you if it was.
Reinoe also claims it is MB.
(there is some chance one of you is town and telling the truth.)

That a WW (instead of mafia) has flipped indicates better than random odds its MB.
That a WW has flipped and you claim the host did not go with the more thematically normal seer, (but cop and guilty) indicates better than random odds its MB. (hosts frequently give town an even break and let at least some member know that it is SB. If this is SB, with WW and a cop that gets guilty, then this host decide to make it impossible and tad misleading for town to decide if it is MB or not. That is Possible, not bastard, but less likely than random.

There are even more if's

What if Beast flips rolecop?

As previously stated I am lynching what I see as the scummiest guy. I also like that I think you are on the short stacked scum faction. I reckon that (at a guessed 3:1) that will make it game theoretically imperative for factions to shoot at one another. Mafia can end a known effective WW.Vig, and WW would need to shoot at Maf, to even it up.
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Post Post #5300 (isolation #758) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:51 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5298, beastcharizard wrote:What do I have to do to get reinoe lynched?


Same thing you had to do before you needlessly claimed before town had good reason too.
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Post Post #5313 (isolation #759) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:45 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5301, beastcharizard wrote:Ok, so what you are saying is you would rather take out the faction that HAS to shoot for the other team rather than the faction with more people?
(1)
How does that make any sense in your scenario?
(3)
You are saying you want to take out someone who is trying to help the town by shooting scum.

(2)
Also, I have a guilty. There isn't anything more convincing for a lynch in my book.


(2)
yes from your point of view there is nothing more convincing and i don't expect you to agree to lynch yourself over your claimed red check.

I however have your claimed red check and two very viable explanations for it.(+ some less so) (one them is you are WW)(one is you are town and an even night cop)

(3)
nope I couldn't possibly be saying that.
(1)
If I thought Beast and Reinoe were exactly equally likely to flip scum, id still lynch the one I thought was from the short stacked (currently prob 3:2) team. I have never played multiball nor read enough mutliball(any?) scum QTs to be sure but I think one team being at 3:1, gives lots of reason for the 1 team to shoot at the 3. because the one team is hooting at them the 3 team also has incentive to end that. From the 3 scum teams point of view yes townies are dangerous as they have votes and are trying to lynch them. The 1 one left in the other team is no effectively a known vig(as he has one nk and is gunning for them)

I prefer that to the situation with 2v2 as I believe it is possible the scum teams may not be quite as likely to shoot at one another in that case.
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Post Post #5316 (isolation #760) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:46 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5313, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5301, beastcharizard wrote:Ok, so what you are saying is you would rather take out the faction that HAS to shoot for the other team rather than the faction with more people?
(1)
How does that make any sense in your scenario?
(3)
You are saying you want to take out someone who is trying to help the town by shooting scum.

(2)
Also, I have a guilty. There isn't anything more convincing for a lynch in my book.


(2)
yes from your point of view there is nothing more convincing and i don't expect you to agree to lynch yourself over your claimed red check.

I however have your claimed red check and two very viable explanations for it.(+ some less so) (one them is you are WW)(one is you are town and an even night cop)

(3)
nope I couldn't possibly be saying that.
(1)
If I thought Beast and Reinoe were exactly equally likely to flip scum, id still lynch the one I thought was from the short stacked (currently prob 3:2) team. I have never played multiball nor read enough mutliball(any?) scum QTs to be sure but I think one team being at 3:1, gives lots of reason for the 1 team to shoot at the 3. because the one team is hooting at them the 3 team also has incentive to end that. From the 3 scum teams point of view yes townies are dangerous as they have votes and are trying to lynch them. The 1 one left in the other team is no effectively a known vig(as he has one nk and is gunning for them)

I prefer that to the situation with 2v2 as I believe it is possible the scum teams may not be quite as likely to shoot at one another in that case.

In post 5314, beastcharizard wrote:And if this isn't multiball?


Well that is possibility that only became apparent when you changed your mind about what your claimed PM meant. Originally and as recently as you were convinced that the game was MB based on your reading of your claimed role. At that time i was making the argument that you are scum and WW, trying to lynch a mafia (and hence MB). Since then, conveniently, you have found out no your Pm does not mean that.
I am inclined to give later claims that you now have re understood your PM zero weight. Further I could in fact somewhat scum read you as town are likely to know what their Pm means and scum making it up are more likely to make mistakes and inconsistencies.

If it is not multiball, then most either you are scum with role cop check on Reinoe, or Reinoe is scum (WW)(as its SB). Note it is also plausible but unlikely suicide play for you just to be scum faking a red check (for no good reason/scum can be bad too) and for Reinoe to be town who is not cop, but new the check was fake and thus (Reinoe being Reinoe) fake claimed something, and the something was to mirror your fake claim.


Also, why is my prime-number cop not part of your explanations? I mean it is my actual role so you should put it in your explanation.

Ok I will add the explanation. Oh lordy. LOL. Just fucking LOL. There does that help? Please for my most recent previous statement about changing to a prime number cop claim.
Exactly why did you change to out that you are prime number cop and have another check tomorrow. In what conceivable way does it actually add to the case against Reinoe. Your conclusion in
In post 5241, beastcharizard wrote:Now can we PLEASE lynch Reinoe

has exactly no
indicated
logical relationship to why on the basis of your claim we could now lynch Reinoe. I can make one, but you didnt, one good reason for you not make tyhe indication explicit is self aware meta is BS, you upping your claim so you are a bigger target to scum(if they even believe you) is like self aware meat no bigger reason to believe your claim.


I am at the point where I would give something up for reinoe to get lynched. The only thing they have really said is that if they are lynched it is going to be a study of what all town takes as a fake claim. The thing is, that Reinoe is doing the opposite and seeing how much bs scum can spew in order to get out of a cop guilty lynch.

I have never heard of someone lynching the cop to find out if they guilty is true rather than lynching the guilty to see if the cop is true. How often do people fake guilties?

Welcome to Axle world.
I imagine you never have heard of it.
I imagine you have only played little multiball.(Ive played none)(However I do know 3 sided games have very different game theory math to two sided ones)
I have seen merely unbelievable claims lynched in SB. (actually we will stop there I dont want to talk about the worst/junk plays(bad claims) I have seen)
Lastly that you have never heard of it is why any defense that Oh beast cant have done that are BS, claimg cop and lynching someone from the other team will have looked like genius... until it unravelled, especially if as beast initially claimed (and i already thought more likely than not) the game is MB.

and finally I really would prefer to lynch another WW over a maf today.

however it is time

UNVOTE: Beast

Note I really might vote him again, but I reckon I have as much good info as i can reasonably expect to get. Time to re-evaluate the day from scratch.
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Post Post #5318 (isolation #761) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:17 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5305, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5297, AxleGreaser wrote:
If the game is MB then a town cop is threat to both factions
which
wastes the shot they could be eliminating the other faction with by shooting the cop
?


(1)
bolded #1 if this is MB and Beast is a cop he is only a threat to the mafia faction. How is he a threat to the WWs?
(2)
bolded @2 you are arguing that this is MB and that Beast could be scum. You are also arguing that scum would shoot at each other. You are now arguing that a shot on him would be a waste. This is very much a disconnect.

In post 5297, AxleGreaser wrote:So the chnaces if the game is SB are pretty high of getting shot eventually. My point was however, it is not a suicide play by beast.

(3)
I think the chances of scum shooting a threat in mb are just the same as in singleball. I think that in MB a scum team would NOT wabt to kill all of the other team 'cause like...then we'd be focused on just that team.


(1)
because I read his posts... did you?
The most recent way he claims his role works is like this.
In post 5215, beastcharizard wrote:He said I got guilties on anti-town entities. Mafia or WW or SK or anything like that was not specified. I do know I get a false guilty on Millers though. Doubt that helps.

and he implicitly agreed with this incorrect poiint
In post 5306, beastcharizard wrote:Nero the Hero is at it again.

WHich tells me Beast is unsure how his role works .... again. Or doesnt care just so long as Nero is championing his cause with BS or not.

(2)
I am unsure if I mentioned it every time, but I did in at least some of my repetitions of my explanation.... Here we go for the umpteenth time.
Question
: Is beast play clearly suicide for scum hence his claim has the normal validity of cop claims with red checks. Such claims get default validity
because
they are suicide plays and scum typically need better than 1for1 trades. (I think that is all the details of the actual question this time)
Answer
: No if this game is MB, and beast is WW, and he claims a red check on guy he thinks is mafia. Then when the mafia flips he looks by standard play (in SB) to be conf town. If he gets away with that and no one notices then after a maf!Reinoe lynch, then town will likely think he(beast) is town. Maf will (may) also think he(beast) is a real town cop who wont have another check until night 4. In that situation Maf who will be shooting for WW somewhat (at 2v2) may purposefully shoot around Beast because they assume he is cop and not the real threat that WW are.
and worst case, if once the maf!Reinoe lynch goes through is Maff shoot Beast and its 2v1 and WW have a shot at hitting maf the same night.
Conclusion
If its MB, as Beast and Reinoe both initially claimed... then it is nothing like suicide play for a scum play to fake a Cop guilty on someone they believe is from the other faction.

No disconnect at all. True it is NOT mafia standard play 101 reasoning, it a bit more advanced than that, but there is no disconnect. If you still think there is, the re-read the above very slowly several times.

(3)
At the end of the game for scum to win they really want to become a voting majority. At 3v1 the short stacked scum team knwo their only chance of victory is to kill all the other team before they simply lynch him, with thread presence or actual majority. The one man WW!scum would have to have rocks in his head not to be shooting at the mafias. As he is shooting at them, he is effectively known to exist (unlimited shot)vig, The mafia team has to have rocks in their heads not to be shooting at him, and merely hoping the WW's shots actually hit Town.
This may even still theoretically apply at this point with 2v2 but I don't know the scum will see what they really ought be doing to maximize their scum teams chances of winning(aka eliminate the rival who has both a gun and a vote).

But hey I agree in MB the scum teams dont want the other one ended too early, as the game gets longer inf the nks go down too soon. However at 3v1 I pretty sure its rocks in the head or shoot at the other guys time.

One exception, but perhaps its me being paranoid, If I am right about WW Maf and MB and stuff.. there may well be scums that want me dead.... a lot. If so LOL me.
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Post Post #5319 (isolation #762) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:18 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5317, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5316, AxleGreaser wrote:and finally I really would prefer to lynch another WW over a maf today

why?


see previous post that was ninja's (it took a while to write it carefully)
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Post Post #5324 (isolation #763) » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:07 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5323, Izariael wrote:So... here's a thought I've been chewing on. What if we lynched
neither beast nor reinoe
? I'm beginning to think that scum benefits more from this lynch pool than town does. There's no way they are aligned together, which means that one or both of them is scum, so leaving them both alive today keeps more possibility of cross-kills tonight, which is really something that town needs right now. I think we've reached a critical point of the game where scum (certainly the wolves after losing a member) are going to need to target each other tonight.

VOTE: Slandaar

Here's my suggestion for an alternative.


what.
You think seeing as we quite possibly found two scum we should kill neither, but lynch Slaandar.. because hes scum and as killing reinoe or beast scum is bad, because crosskills we ought lynch some other guy who only might be scum?

Now I know I am paying attention to cross kill potential, and given a choice, would prefer to lynch the guy I think is WW,
but err

wat?

RVS is way over?
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Post Post #5345 (isolation #764) » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:29 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

@Slaandar you had probably better explain how you think a player for one scum team in a confirmed MB game can think its
wise
/plausible to play as boon did day 1?

@Nero want to try voting for someone who is even in the game? (Axxle )
and then doing it because you think they are scum for reasons instead of the apocalypse?



VOTE: Josh_B reasons
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Post Post #5349 (isolation #765) » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:18 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5348, Flubbernugget wrote:VOTE: thor

Muffin's flip.

GM's pr flip.

What more is it gonna take ffs.


Want to explain what muffins flip has to do with the price of fish in uzbekistan? (or something more relevant if you choose)

As as starting point, so you understand what my point of view will start from.
Muffin did flip town, I have checked my PM and I will flip town whenever I Flip. Thus I weigh my views on things at least as much as muffins, indeed more as I know why I think what I do.
That said.

Muffin argument with Thor was silly. Muffins points were bogus, but note Thors points on Shiro were bogus: and I really don't care! (much yet)
Why not?
Because Shiros cage needed rattling. And rattling it would be a towny thing to do.
(now you might meta thor, and find out he doesn't do grunt work like that..., but thor is no longer just thor, now hes Thor + new improved Mgirl(whatever that is going to mean in practice: perhaps just a higher class of more regular complaining about bad players?).

However if you want to make the argument no one (esp not muffin) ever actually made, and that would be that Thor rattled the cage in scummy way designed to get mislynch rather than find out the alignment of Shiro, then I would definitely like to hear your views.
As encouragement, if you want tot try and actually make that argument, you could observe that i got involved, and in some sense took Shiros side... (that is from memory exactly how far i went I dont recall)

or you can go on posting one liner, headliners, and I will largely ignore them.

PereV and Daves flip were more indicative, at first glance, but even then I willingly voted for Dave and I know I am town. So again details would be nice.
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Post Post #5352 (isolation #766) » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:31 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5350, Izariael wrote:I don't see what was so bogus about Muffin's statement. His whole thing was that Thor was artificially prolonging a debate when the simple solution would have shut down the whole accusation.

Regardless, Muffin aside, what do you think of goodmorning, who was a town tracker, repeatedly taking a tunnel stance that Thor is scum to the extent that she did? You seem quick to brush that aside in favour of your own tunnel.


Well no, I did not brush it aside, but as Flubber and you pointed it out i thought I would let you put bones on it.

GM was driving hard on Thor D1 as well and I am sure there was no check then.
So what is the extra information you think GM will have had that made the D2 tunnel, more fact based than feels.
(aka do more than wave hands and hint, state your case.)

Note i am not arguing a case, I am asking why I don't yet know what yours is.
Town not only has to lynch scum today, but in my estimate in order even have a chance of winning town must lynch scum every day.. and get lucky...

Just based on play, There are plenty of people way scummier any 'case' posted about thor
Spoiler: Nero yesterday
was white knighting so hard he forgot what beasts role even does. Even though Nero had asked the mod about it....
That was bizarre, and for me the jury is still out on what that even means... about nero or his alignment.
In post 5318, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5305, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5297, AxleGreaser wrote:
If the game is MB then a town cop is threat to both factions
which
wastes the shot they could be eliminating the other faction with by shooting the cop
?


(1)
bolded #1 if this is MB and Beast is a cop he is only a threat to the mafia faction. How is he a threat to the WWs?
(2)
bolded @2 you are arguing that this is MB and that Beast could be scum. You are also arguing that scum would shoot at each other. You are now arguing that a shot on him would be a waste. This is very much a disconnect.

In post 5297, AxleGreaser wrote:So the chnaces if the game is SB are pretty high of getting shot eventually. My point was however, it is not a suicide play by beast.

(3)
I think the chances of scum shooting a threat in mb are just the same as in singleball. I think that in MB a scum team would NOT wabt to kill all of the other team 'cause like...then we'd be focused on just that team.


(1)
because I read his posts... did you?
The most recent way he claims his role works is like this.
In post 5215, beastcharizard wrote:He said I got guilties on anti-town entities. Mafia or WW or SK or anything like that was not specified. I do know I get a false guilty on Millers though. Doubt that helps.

and he implicitly agreed with this incorrect poiint
In post 5306, beastcharizard wrote:Nero the Hero is at it again.

WHich tells me Beast is unsure how his role works .... again. Or doesnt care just so long as Nero is championing his cause with BS or not.

[...]
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Post Post #5354 (isolation #767) » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:07 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5350, Izariael wrote:Regardless, Muffin aside,


That I can go with especially from you, as I asked Flub
who mentioned the flip as if the conclusion from it was self evident...

So I am still interested in why flub mentioned that flip.
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Post Post #5357 (isolation #768) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:31 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

and/or wrong adjective
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Post Post #5360 (isolation #769) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:17 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5358, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5345, AxleGreaser wrote:@Nero want to try voting for someone who is even in the game? (Axxle )
and then doing it because you think they are scum for reasons instead of the apocalypse?

or you could just wipe my vote off like the scumbag you are.

So ok, Ren was fake claiming town cop. What he was saying was that he detected mafia only. You believed this claim. You also then claim that cop is a threat to both factions. You can't believe Rens claim AND believe Beasts.


No id just like you to provide anything other than fanciful "ooh we talked about BS in the thread", then you(nero) keep a options open each way
In post 5341, Nero Cain wrote:I am not sure if this means
TSO is scum

then dont actually call me scum
In post 5341, Nero Cain wrote:or if this is a sign of the apocalypse but I'm slightly leaning the later.


but then you voted me...

Tell why shouldn't I wipe that off... as rubbish... as vote so bad ... as a scum claim by you?
so no I was basically polite and nit picked you getting the name wrong.

and now that you have reasons they are unbelievably awful.
In post 5358, Nero Cain wrote:So ok, Ren was fake claiming town cop. What he was saying was that he detected mafia only.
(11)
You believed this claim.
(12)
You also then claim that cop is a threat to both factions.
(13)
You can't believe Rens claim AND believe Beasts.

unequivocal BS crosssed out by me.

(11)
Please show where i believed his claim. (note you will find me consider the what ifs on it being true.)

(13)
Err. yes I agree with you, except I would be more exact and say you cant simultaneously believe both claims and the check. I even said so?
In post 4856, AxleGreaser wrote:at least 1 is scum or both bad.

at least that once. Do you have anything even vaguely resembling a scum read on me in that post?

(12)
It is true i (expect i did) claim that
if
the cop role worked as beast (later) claimed it did and got guilties on both then it is a threat to both. I will also have claimed that getting guilties only on mafia makes a claimed role only athreat to one faction.

YOU

however claimed not to even know how Beast claimed his role works... while defending Beast.
Spoiler: context
In post 5318, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5305, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5297, AxleGreaser wrote:
If the game is MB then a town cop is threat to both factions
which
wastes the shot they could be eliminating the other faction with by shooting the cop
?


(1)
bolded #1
if this is MB and Beast is a cop he is only a threat to the mafia faction. How is he a threat to the WWs?

(2)
bolded @2 you are arguing that this is MB and that Beast could be scum. You are also arguing that scum would shoot at each other. You are now arguing that a shot on him would be a waste. This is very much a disconnect.

In post 5297, AxleGreaser wrote:So the chnaces if the game is SB are pretty high of getting shot eventually. My point was however, it is not a suicide play by beast.

(3)
I think the chances of scum shooting a threat in mb are just the same as in singleball. I think that in MB a scum team would NOT wabt to kill all of the other team 'cause like...then we'd be focused on just that team.


(1)
because I read his posts... did you?

The most recent way he claims his role works is like this.
In post 5215, beastcharizard wrote:He said I got guilties on anti-town entities. Mafia or WW or SK or anything like that was not specified. I do know I get a false guilty on Millers though. Doubt that helps.


You said
In post 5305, Nero Cain wrote:bolded #1 if this is MB and Beast is a cop he is only a threat to the mafia faction. How is he a threat to the WWs?

In post 5318, AxleGreaser wrote:
(1)
because I read his posts... did you?

The most recent way he claims his role works is like this.
In post 5215, beastcharizard wrote:He said I got guilties on anti-town entities. Mafia or WW or SK or anything like that was not specified. I do know I get a false guilty on Millers though. Doubt that helps.


@nero
<<<<<<<<<<<
So please explain how you did not even know how his role worked if you were in any sense even vaguely trying to figure the game out?
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Post Post #5361 (isolation #770) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:42 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

Spoiler: mumble mumble
In post 5356, Slandaar wrote:Wrong team.

quoting that post seems out of context, it is however why I chose to ask this question. (dont try to think why, I expect it wont make sense, but I may want to explain later. if excruciatingly detailed transparency on how I got where i did becomes an issue.)


Anyway (this is going to get complex. This strategy hopefully keeps the thread simpler less filled with gak.)(I am not even certain my reasoning is right, it is complex)


You have your vote on boons.

I have concept I call
perspective
A post (diff game) that is all about it
(basically you need to think about precisely what the other person knew or might have know at the time, ... its obvious but people hardly ever really do it... really... they dont.)
(please read that post about perspective, as this post is perspective on roids)


@Slanndar
Anyway please do the following in your head, this is not question. The question is at the end.

You claim Boon is scum. Fine take that
perspective
and REALLY think about it. (use ALL the knowledge you currently have about what theoretical scum boon will have known on early D1) hint: use setup balance.

Now have a long hard think about, Boons PR claim, and subsequent BP claim.

Consider what the other scum team probably knows (or even more precisely guess what scum boon would think the other team knows)
(I told you this is perspective on roids, consider what scum!boon on D1 thought the other scum team knew....)

Anyway, what would D1 Boons estimate, be on his plan to claim a PR, possibly draw a scum shot, then claim 2 shot BP....

Think about what everybody (relevant) will know.

Nope I said really think about all that stuff please go back and do so... (possibly for a few hours...)

Now answer one question,

Do you still claim Boon is the best lynch for the day?
No reasons just yay or nay.

I get no way in hell.

Then we can talk. (I will be really grumpy if you didnt think about it like I asked first)
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Post Post #5362 (isolation #771) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:47 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5359, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5353, Boonskiies wrote:We kind of talked about the opposite in my neighborhood. I don't think Axxle is scum at all.

Ok. Why don'y you guys think he's scum? Who said what?

You do know the scum have already flipped in my hood right?


no, no, no, first you explain why you think I am scum and not just the apocalypse.

So far you have accused me of being the apocalypse, and of being wrong
well actually you did not even explicitly do that.

You made flat out false assertions about what I believed, then claimed i cant believe both "a AND b" when in fact i had never said I did....
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Post Post #5365 (isolation #772) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:47 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5363, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 5355, Thor665 wrote:
In post 5342, Izariael wrote:There's no way gm was tunneling that hard unless something was up with him. No way in hell.

GM was tunneling on me Day 1.
I claimed a jail on GM Day 2.

So what info do you think GM had exactly?

I'm also sorta v/la till Saturday, so this post functionally works as a prod dodge - but I'll manage some proactive thoughts then.

Also;

I am confirmed not Werewolf at this stage - discuss.

In post 5354, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5350, Izariael wrote:Regardless, Muffin aside,


That I can go with especially from you, as I asked Flub
who mentioned the flip as if the conclusion from it was self evident...

So I am still interested in why flub mentioned that flip.



Muffin had a strong case. His flip shows it was genuine.

GM had a weak case but flipped a pr. In other words, she crumbed a result on Thor.


I know 100% my read of the
case
argument was genuine, I didn't vote Thor at the time based on the
case
argument.
Knowing now that Muffin was town, changes my estimate of muffins skill level, not my read on what happened.
(note at the time i read muffin as probably town and wrong headed. (note 2:wrong headed in criticising thor for wrong things.))

If you (personally of your own skills) want to claim the case is strong then I d like to discuss it with you as I never saw it as strong.
Indeed I mainly saw an argument, then dummy spits, then votes.


I saw Thor chasing Shiro for BS reasons, I saw Muffin then fight the BS reasons with BS, rather than state and actual defense of Shiro, or the actual fault with the Thor BS.
Out of that I got to see whether or not shiro was rattled by the strong winds of Thor pushing one way and Muffin the other... (both with BS... at least one of them town...) (which is AFAIK proof by example that BS doesnt always == scum! so huh?)

If you tell me both were seriously serious that their points were scum or town indicative.. I am going to argue they played badly and should feel bad.
(@thor dear thor please dont bother, if I ever come for you as scum we can dance then without prejudice.)
But hey if there was an actual case by muffin on thor, somewhere in all that argue about how to count dumb non alignment indicative BS please show me.
Very specifically show me Muffin making the case.

Do note that is not me defending Thor... I can see the potential for things happening today and me hammering Thor.. I dont like what youre saying...
(not saying I will, but so far your posts dont inspire confidence.)
I (and all the townies) need to be trying work out everybodies alignment not just the lynch target, lynching scum today is no where near good enough for town to win from here.


GM had weak arse case on Thor BEFORE GM could possibly have had a check....
please explain more explicitly what you say GM did and when.

(please note I am ok with you presenting a range of options of what GM did, where most of them are Thor is scum. I am not asking you to read GMs mind just be explicit.)
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Post Post #5367 (isolation #773) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:17 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5366, Flubbernugget wrote:You're saying muffin's case was shit and that's about all I can see you saying about it. So what exactly do you want me to refute?

Well you claimed
In post 5363, Flubbernugget wrote:Muffin had a strong case.


I pointed out for me whetehr he flipped town or not was not the issue, I never liked his case.
So you could you know explain why you think its strong instead of just appeal to authority of flipped towny. That would amke me feel comfortable you were standing behind the case as a towny...

This for instance seems awful?
In post 5364, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 5355, Thor665 wrote:
Also;
I am confirmed not Werewolf at this stage - discuss.


So you're mafia with axel. Cool.

So if he is being added to me why were you voting him?


Calling out a gut read from a player as meticulous as Thor isn't making a shit case, and calling him out on the same word play bullshit he stalled D1 with isn't shit either.

What was bullshit, was making your own wordplay bullshit, wanting to count the references some other way or anyway at all.

As I pointed out,
(becuase/when I got sick of the BS)
was that in order to evaluate Shiro you had to examined intent (OMG mafia 101 and neither flipped town!muffin nor Thor were talking about intent)
Why did Shiro make the mentions, was the only alignment relevant thing, not how many what quality whether pronoun or not, that was all crap, and flipped town!Muffin was posting about it tooo.


GM got more aggressive about thor later in the game.

If GM had backed off her read on thor later in the game I would assume she got a result that cleared Thor.


Ok so please explain what plausible result you are supposing Gm got that actually convicted Thor...
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Post Post #5369 (isolation #774) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:12 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5368, Shiro wrote:@Nero U see all this ^
This is why Axl is town.

Also since u wondered kinda everyone in the hood agreed to it so no specific person saying it.

@Axl Perhaps a positive resault at night 2


I can make guesses... what GM may have done when...

but its the people who just drop a flipped PR GM on the table appeal to authority and say sheep the dead guy....
and never explain why or how or the details, those people that say we should sheep GM

to put up (and explain what they claim Gm may reasonably have got) or shut up.
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Post Post #5370 (isolation #775) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:59 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5366, Flubbernugget wrote:GM got more aggressive about thor later in the game.

If GM had backed off her read on thor later in the game I would assume she got a result that cleared Thor.


so explain what results a GM tracker could have got, and when, and how they tie in with what you observed.

I am particularly interested in this theory you have that a GM tracker could ever clear(confirm) someone as town? (in this game)

As near as i can you have not actually thought this through...
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Post Post #5375 (isolation #776) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:47 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5371, Slandaar wrote:Axle in terms of Boon I think you are giving him too much credit for thinking through his actions.

I don't really know what you mean by what the other team knows... if Boon claims PR and then BP what do they know? The BP claim is legit?

There is no way for them to decipher if that is a town, SK or scum claim. IF they had no PR's then yes, there is something in that, but evidently this isn't the case. Take for example the mafia with their Even night RB and compare to 1shot BP? seems fine to me but at the same time it could be a town PR there is no way to know. Obviously its also possible they have both of those PR's and wolves have 2 PR's and again there wouldn't be a way to know if the claim was Town/Scum/SK.


Spoiler: analysis of a hypothetical scum boon D1
known things

We know it is MB. So did the scum teams.
Both the scum teams without much effort or skill will observe they have 3 members and go "
WTF 3 man scum team in a large?
" At that point Boon or any scum will realise it is MB.
If they had had say 5 members, it is true they wouldnt know if there was an SK or not until they saw the kills. But we have flipped WW and maf so we dont need to think about that.
(do you want argue that this MB game can have 2 x 4 man scum teams? and its balanced somehow? See archive for examples of no.) (otherwise 3 man scum team knew it was MB)

In order for boon to play as he did, and fake a PR role D1 he had to be BP whether he is town or scum

If boon is scum and BP and he knows it is MB...
What is the MOST BLINDINGLY OBViOUS thing for him to guess the other team has?

if the other team has a BP, and boon fakes a PR gets shot, but doesnt die... he has effectively just about mod confirmed himself to the second team that he is the first teams BP.
if he is 2shot BP and scum...(nah) the other teams is MOST likely going to know that too.


I am sure you claim that he wouldnt know is MB. I am sure team size will have told him that.

I think you are claiming that asymmetric scum teams seems fine and perhaps they are. But in MB where the scum teams are vs one another and town.
BP is pretty big edge to give one team and not the other.

I think you claiming Boon will think the scum teams might be asymmetric where one has BP and the other does not, is giving him too much credit. AND i think it wont balance with BP on one team.

At the very least I claim that if scum boon was BP the obvious thing to think is the other team has a BP too. or at least for Boon to believe that is likely enough that making a d1 plan based on hoping it is asymmetric seems very unlikely to me.

Boon is town. (unless you can explain this away)
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Post Post #5376 (isolation #777) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:51 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5372, Izariael wrote:Gm spoke of Thor not only in thread but also in neighborhood. I'm quite certain that if there's one result she got, it was on Thor and it was incriminatory.


Beauty so tell what plausible incriminatory result a tracker GM got on Thor?
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Post Post #5377 (isolation #778) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:52 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5376, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5372, Izariael wrote:Gm spoke of Thor not only in thread but also in neighborhood. I'm quite certain that if there's one result she got, it was on Thor and it was incriminatory.


Beauty so tell what plausible incriminatory result a tracker GM got on Thor?



Oh and BTW I mean really make a plausible one up. (I tried and failed), your turn.
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Post Post #5378 (isolation #779) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:58 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5339, Aegor wrote:reinoe, Mafia Even-Night Roleblocker, has been lynched Day 2.


@MOD

This is a normal game... right?
Reinoe was not retrospectively lynched the previous day. k thx.
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Post Post #5379 (isolation #780) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:06 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5372, Izariael wrote:Like... she vote-parked him yesterday for the entirety of Day 3 even after fully stating that she was in favor of a beast lynch. There was opportunity to vote/hammer two separate slots yesterday, but she chose instead to stay parked on a Thor vote.

4739/4818 are posts that show a pretty concrete stance on the matter.



Oh yeah I am convinced, Gm wanted thor lynched. passionately.

In post 4818, goodmorning wrote:
In post 4811, beastcharizard wrote:You don't shut up about Thor

No,
I
don't shut up about Thor. This is because he's Scum who's
outmaneuvered me twice now
and
you're helping him do it again
.


Thor Jk'd GM N1.... (or is scum and very liekly RB'd GM D1) (that team would have an odd night RB?) (So it cant be Reinoes?)
best explanation I have for this
(
outmaneuvered me twice now
)
Someone else probably RB'd GM N2

and GM felt outmaneuvered twice.... and had no result.
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Post Post #5397 (isolation #781) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:23 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5382, Slandaar wrote:(I assume the reason for this is because it prevents what you are saying that scum PR cannot claim without the other team knowing they are scum)


Yeah not many MB games in the list and the symmetric one I was remembering had, fire ice goons, not PR.

Still not liking a scum play that involves deliberately drawing a potential shot from the other team N1 just to strengthen the veracity of a town BP claim.

Speaking of which
In post 3059, Garmr wrote:
In post 3058, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3053, Garmr wrote:who ever is shooting from shooting him again.


what makes you think anyone is shooting him?

The way his acting about his claim makes me feel like something made him panic.


does this make sense to people?

The original statement in seemed to have lot more certainty than someone who had just assumed Boon knew he had been shot n1 and so boon panicked.
Also i dont actually see what could be perceived as boon panic starting at the beginning of D2, also how does garmr reconcile boon panicking over being shot when the D1 play was designed to look like boon was drawing a shot to establish the D2 claim?
I don't get anything that makes sense except garmr knew boon had been shot. AND the only people who know if boon was shot n1 are the people that shot boon.
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Post Post #5398 (isolation #782) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:20 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5360, AxleGreaser wrote:
[... back ground for other questions you ALSO did not answer ... left out for brevity
"(11)Please show where i believed his claim." (you claimed I believed reinoes claim, please show any reason you mistakenly think that at all.)
"Do you have anything even vaguely resembling a scum read on me in that post?" (please explain your scum read on me, and what on earth has to do with it.)
...]

YOU

however claimed not to even know how Beast claimed his role works... while defending Beast.
Spoiler: context
In post 5318, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5305, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5297, AxleGreaser wrote:
If the game is MB then a town cop is threat to both factions
which
wastes the shot they could be eliminating the other faction with by shooting the cop
?


(1)
bolded #1
if this is MB and Beast is a cop he is only a threat to the mafia faction. How is he a threat to the WWs?

(2)
bolded @2 you are arguing that this is MB and that Beast could be scum. You are also arguing that scum would shoot at each other. You are now arguing that a shot on him would be a waste. This is very much a disconnect.

In post 5297, AxleGreaser wrote:So the chnaces if the game is SB are pretty high of getting shot eventually. My point was however, it is not a suicide play by beast.

(3)
I think the chances of scum shooting a threat in mb are just the same as in singleball. I think that in MB a scum team would NOT wabt to kill all of the other team 'cause like...then we'd be focused on just that team.


(1)
because I read his posts... did you?

The most recent way he claims his role works is like this.
In post 5215, beastcharizard wrote:He said I got guilties on anti-town entities. Mafia or WW or SK or anything like that was not specified. I do know I get a false guilty on Millers though. Doubt that helps.


You said
In post 5305, Nero Cain wrote:bolded #1 if this is MB and Beast is a cop he is only a threat to the mafia faction. How is he a threat to the WWs?

In post 5318, AxleGreaser wrote:
(1)
because I read his posts... did you?

The most recent way he claims his role works is like this.
In post 5215, beastcharizard wrote:He said I got guilties on anti-town entities. Mafia or WW or SK or anything like that was not specified. I do know I get a false guilty on Millers though. Doubt that helps.


@nero
<<<<<<<<<<<
So please explain how you did not even know how his role worked if you were in any sense even vaguely trying to figure the game out?


@Nero
you didnt answer the question yesterday ( true the day ended,and it perhaps seemed rhetorical. Today its not.)
but now you have also not answered it when I brought it up again.

So please explain how you did not even know how his role worked if you were in any sense even vaguely trying to figure the game out?
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Post Post #5399 (isolation #783) » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:32 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5396, T S O wrote:Yes, we've got two full scumteams and an x-shot SK! How fair!


@TSO
in the spoiler is post by nero that makes statements about what you said in the hood.
Would you please verify and expand upon them
Spoiler: What nero has said that TSO said
In post 5341, Nero Cain wrote:So in my hood last night both me and TSO agreed that Axxle needs death. I am not sure if this means TSO is scum or if this is a sign of the apocalypse but I'm slightly leaning the later.

Though it was a lil' odd that he was arguing that me being in the hood made me scum despite arguing the former yesterday but *shrugz*

vote:Axxle


I am hoping it wasn't like a mob scene, where you guys just decided who needed death, then got out the pitch forks and torches and chanted kill the pig and you like actually played the game?
What did you discuss.

He thinks you may be scum, for the interaction what were your views on his posting in the hood?
and more stuff like that...
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Post Post #5403 (isolation #784) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:22 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

experiencing technical difficulties... should be Ok in 24hrs or less. I can get to user account (one time in 5) but... also get huh wtf why am I autologged out also happens (4/5)

Ok apparently I can get to post this time...


VOTE: Nero Cain

This vote goes with (emphasizes) my previous question post to Nero
It also comes from rereading his ISO

Nero is very likely to flip scum

Normal service hopefully resumed when I get back to my box/system.

@TSO Id really like your views on what happened in your hood please.
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Post Post #5407 (isolation #785) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:15 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5404, T S O wrote:Nero and me posted like once each, iirc, saying lynches we'd support and wouldn't support. That's about it. You were in it.

That description to does not, so from your POV,

does that match this, as he says you were
arguing a point... but shrugz

In post 5341, Nero Cain wrote:I am not sure if this means TSO is scum or if this is a sign of the apocalypse but I'm slightly leaning the later.

Though it was a lil' odd that he was
arguing that me being in the hood made me scum
despite arguing the former yesterday but *shrugz*


Do you see " am not sure if this means TSO is scum or if this is a sign of the apocalypse" as being related to what yopu say happened

both gave lynches worth reporting

That looks like rhetoric, and keeping options open for voting you.

What do you think of whatever hapened in the hood and Neros posts in the thread is is towny like extension. follow up of that?
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Post Post #5408 (isolation #786) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:04 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

EBWOP (sorry that last post is bit gak, I was pressed for time and stuff.)
In post 5407, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5404, T S O wrote:Nero and me posted like once each, iirc, saying lynches we'd support and wouldn't support. That's about it. You were in it.

That description does not to me match what Nero said happened,

so from your POV,

does that match his post, where he says you were
arguing a point... but shrugz

In post 5341, Nero Cain wrote:I am not sure if this means TSO is scum or if this is a sign of the apocalypse but I'm slightly leaning the later.

Though it was a lil' odd that he was
arguing that me being in the hood made me scum
despite arguing the former yesterday but *shrugz*


Do you see Nero:"am not sure if this means TSO is scum or if this is a sign of the apocalypse"
as being related to what you say happened TSO "both gave lynches we we'd support and wouldn't support"

Nero in thread post looks like rhetoric, and keeping options open for voting you.

Do you think whatever happened in the hood and Neros subsequent posts in the thread is towny like extension/follow up of that?
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Post Post #5412 (isolation #787) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:01 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5411, Thor665 wrote:I am amazingly neutral on the whole Axle v. Nero thing - and that sucker feels like it has been going on for days.

Could both of you push your second top scumspect for a while and see if it's more exciting?


nope.

I suppose I could push you if I really wanted exciting, but Id prefer to push, vote and lynch my best most likely to flip scum suspect.

At this time that is Nero.

As i recall,
You havent liked (voted) my push on Josh B, how come today?
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Post Post #5413 (isolation #788) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:02 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5410, Nero Cain wrote:Axle can also scream as much as he wants about me not understanding Beasts role but that doesn't make it so.



So are you going to answer the post and explain how you made those statements, while doing towny things.
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Post Post #5431 (isolation #789) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:02 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5423, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5399, AxleGreaser wrote:He thinks you may be scum

to be blunt, I'm playing with 9 crummy players and picking out which 4 are scum seems like a crapshot. When I get more time I can prob narrow things down but I do have a question: you seem to think contradictions are so scummy. Why then are you not jumping on TSO?


I can lynch TSO, I have problem though in that I really want anyone ELSE that wants to vote TSO to pony up good reason they would not even pressure vote him D1 to make him play but now want him lynched. So if you want to vote TSO today but not D1.

So if you want to vote TSO,
Please start explaining why you have changed your mind.

You still have not answered my questions.... and that not a contradiction thats dodging
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Post Post #5439 (isolation #790) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:07 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5438, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5431, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5423, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5399, AxleGreaser wrote:He thinks you may be scum

to be blunt, I'm playing with 9 crummy players and picking out which 4 are scum seems like a crapshot. When I get more time I can prob narrow things down but I do have a question: you seem to think contradictions are so scummy. Why then are you not jumping on TSO?


I can lynch TSO, I have problem though in that I really want anyone ELSE that wants to vote TSO to pony up good reason they would not even pressure vote him D1 to make him play but now want him lynched. So if you want to vote TSO today but not D1.

So if you want to vote TSO,
Please start explaining why you have changed your mind.

You still have not answered my questions.... and that not a contradiction thats dodging

And I have a problem with anyone that's unable to read. I don't have a strong scum read or town read on TSO. If you think my 5341 was me claiming to have a scumread on (nor does it have anything to do with voting you over the apocalypse) him then either you are dumb or scum--take your pick. I'll admit that I'm a tad bit suspicious of him but I'm pretty suspicious of everyone that's not dead flipped town. I feel like I walked into an epic mafia game. I'll show you my reasons if you show me yours. I also think its absurd that you feel that I should have vote TSO on d1.

I'll get to your question eventually but don't you think its rather hypocritical to blast me for not answering you but you don't answer mine?


I am perfectly able to read, and you would be really be dumb to believe that I think you actually believe you should vote me because of the apocalypse.

However your opening post today, was all kinds of dodgy.
You didnt call me scum and voted me. You didnt and still havent stated any reasons today.

You claimed a discussion existed that you
scum read
found a little odd
TSO from in hood.
In post 5341, Nero Cain wrote:
Though it was a lil' odd that he(TSO) was arguing that me being in the hood made me scum despite arguing the former yesterday but *shrugz*

and in context it is throwing scum vibes about TSO but not actually saying so...

As was outlined in in the post below your reasons posted for voting are made up and or awful
and you have never addressed and of that
In post 5360, AxleGreaser wrote:

and now that you have reasons they are unbelievably awful.
In post 5358, Nero Cain wrote:So ok, Ren was fake claiming town cop. What he was saying was that he detected mafia only.
(11)
You believed this claim.
(12)
You also then claim that cop is a threat to both factions.
(13)
You can't believe Rens claim AND believe Beasts.

unequivocal BS crosssed out by me.

(11)
Please show where i believed his claim. (note you will find me consider the what ifs on it being true.)

(13)
Err. yes I agree with you, except I would be more exact and say you cant simultaneously believe both claims and the check. I even said so?
In post 4856, AxleGreaser wrote:at least 1 is scum or both bad.

at least that once. Do you have anything even vaguely resembling a scum read on me in that post?

(12)
It is true i (expect i did) claim that
if
the cop role worked as beast (later) claimed it did and got guilties on both then it is a threat to both. I will also have claimed that getting guilties only on mafia makes a claimed role only a threat to one faction.

[... other stuff with no answers or explanations from nero...]


and you still have not explained how you managed to forget how Beasts role worked while trying to figure the game out...
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Post Post #5442 (isolation #791) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:37 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5440, Nero Cain wrote:I have no intention of going to look through your iso but I'm positive that you did say that.


proof by utter BS, and false claims...
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Post Post #5443 (isolation #792) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:46 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5440, Nero Cain wrote:ok lets do this.

(11)
Please show where i believed his claim. (note you will find me consider the what ifs on it being true.)

I have no intention of going to look through your iso but I'm positive that you did say that. But I don't need to quote that 'CAUSE YOU WERE VOTING HIM ALL DAY LONG.


swearing elided. (whoa re you claiming i was voting???)

Ok lets just go back and even check what you said:

In post 5360, AxleGreaser wrote:
and now that you have reasons they are unbelievably awful.
In post 5358, Nero Cain wrote:So ok,
Ren
was fake claiming town cop. What he was saying was that he detected mafia only.
(11)
You believed this claim.
(12)
You also then claim that cop is a threat to both factions.
(13)
You can't believe Rens claim AND believe Beasts.

unequivocal BS crosssed out by me.

(11)
Please show where i believed his claim. (note you will find me consider the what ifs on it being true.)

Ren
made larger by me.

Your post claims, I believed Ren's Claim.
You now claim that can t be true as i was voting "him"(Ren) all day long. Rubbish I was voting beast most of the day (since soon after the claim)

and yes I did believe it very likely beast claim was fake and i was voting him.
I also believed it was very likely Reinoes claim was fake.
My best guess at what a was happening was a WW was trying to lynch a mafia. (I was wrong)

I however am paying enough attention to be able to regularly know what I said and why.
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Post Post #5457 (isolation #793) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:36 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

So town we are lynching Nero today.
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Post Post #5458 (isolation #794) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:38 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5454, Flubbernugget wrote:So you can't back your read up.

VOTE: boons


@flub

you are voting for the wrong guy.
We are lynching Nero today.
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Post Post #5462 (isolation #795) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:40 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5438, Nero Cain wrote:And I have a problem with anyone that's unable to read.

do you make an exception those like you that are simply unwilling?
In post 5440, Nero Cain wrote:I have no intention of going to look through your iso but I'm positive that you did say that.

LOL and ....

In post 5460, Nero Cain wrote:The thing is bro is that you are now saying that you didn't believe Ren's claim. Well why?
(1)
You believed it was MB...Ren was claiming a cop role that was more consistent with what a cop in MB is according to the wiki. I think its VERY likely that you are Rens buddy and you knew you was fakeclaiming. I wouldn't be surprised if you legit(4) think I am a WW but you are mafia and I'm town. Also there is absolutly no town motivation in wanting to kill Beast (whom you suspected as WW)
(2)
over mafia. No town gives a shit which faction flips.
(3)


(1) Guess what... the why is in the filter you have no intention of reading.
(2) Guess what... I explained exactly why all the other town should do just that... and again in my filter.
(3) same as 2

yeah I will probably (later) go find it and post a summary of me doing just that in a spoiler , as the other people who have read my filter already know.

(4) and yeah good guess I do legit think you are a WW. and that is how you knew to WK so hard for beast even though you paying so little attention you had forgotten how he claimed his role worked.
(@thread see )
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Post Post #5469 (isolation #796) » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:51 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5468, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 5458, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5454, Flubbernugget wrote:So you can't back your read up.

VOTE: boons


@flub

you are voting for the wrong guy.
We are lynching Nero today.


So I've tunneled Thor the whole game and it really sucks to be wrong but this is just salting the wound.


not quite sure what tunneling thor has to do with you voting the wrong guy today.
Can I suggest being an equal opportunity tunneler... I tunneled TSO day 1, Garmr Day 2, ... beast Day 3
but I also
secret
tunneled GM, and Thor, but the problem was GM smelled like a PR... (too much quiet self assurance)
(The smell was especially strong when rejecting BOTH cop claims out of hand.)

So far out of those I am none for 2... pretty sure I put no salt in your wounds, there was none left after I did mine.

So I will do you a deal, if I am alive tomorrow and you're not I will posthumously tunnel thor for you?
and you can do likewise for me with TSO and garmr/JoshB
I know that seems unfair, as i want you to tunnel two people, but really youd be pressing it to call permanently VLA Josh and TSO two whole players.

So what do you reckon, we lynch scummy as all get out Nero today, and deal with the rest later in the unfortunate eventuality for whoever survives the night.
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Post Post #5472 (isolation #797) » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:15 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5471, Flubbernugget wrote:Also axle are you reading the game because you missed something important


So I am town, and you claim to be town so if I missed something and you noticed because I didnt do something about it, then you should have... so I kinda cant think what it could be.

I will admit, I currently don't quite care about his game like I usually do.
garmr(replaced out) by VLA josh B.
TSO do nothing not going play or answer questions
Nero doing whatever it is hes doing (but it involves refusing to read the thread or back up his imagined claims)
Thor complains about that kind of thing and is VLA again(yeah life happens, its happening to me)
.... blah blah whinge whine

and at 6 town to a probable 2+2 scum it feels like little bit of dead rubber.

So I started blowing up Kerbals again.
But i have read the thread today at least once. Some of it however appeared to be gibberish and imaginings.
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Post Post #5473 (isolation #798) » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:15 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

Oh and I stopped proof reading what I write so much.
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Post Post #5474 (isolation #799) » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:16 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

So flubber flabbergast mean with what I missed.
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