NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

beastcharizard
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Post Post #5000  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:53 am

There is no way to prove the guilty/not guilty vs mafia/not-mafia result debate without a flip though. That is what I am saying.

And yes my plans did change.

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Post Post #5001  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:54 am

In post 4983, Thor665 wrote:On the presumption that you are town - it was only not a complete failure because you drew a PR and pegged your shot right - and even then you were still obligated to claim to even get traction on your wagon because you had no ability to drive a wagon without said claim.

And this even ignores other ways you could have played it - but, meh, I think you could have done a lot better sans 'yay lurkage!' as an intentional plan, yes.


Forgot to address this. I only played this way BECAUSE I am a PR. I was trying to preserve my life as long as possible to be able to use my ability.

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Post Post #5002  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:56 am

beastcharizard wrote:And yes my plans did change.

Can you change your plans again to answer these questions?
In post 4986, reinoe wrote:
In post 4952, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 4942, reinoe wrote:Also why is Beast actively lurking and selectively choosing not to answer some questions and then choosing to answer others?


Which ones have a missed?

In post 4788, Izariael wrote:
In post 4782, beastcharizard wrote:Reinoe is just scum. Call it gut or whatever you want they just give me no town vibes what so ever.

Thor is leaning town because of how Reinoe treats them. I don't see them being partners together.

goodmorning is interaction with Reinoe. At least one of the people in Reinoe's big question post around when they first came in has to be scum. We have eliminated Thor by interaction and goodmorning fits the bill greatly.


So you've scumread reinoe from gutfeels, then felt comfortable listing Thor and goodmorning as leaning town and scum respectively because of their interactions with said scumread? There's nothing at all from either of them that you felt was alignment-indicative? They've both been far more active than reinoe, seeing as reinoe was a slot replacement. What about Day 1 stuff from gm/Thor?



In post 4862, reinoe wrote:So beast, if you have such a huge problem with asking "who is town"...

1) why did you do it?

2) why didn't you interrogate me about it?
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

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Post Post #5003  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:00 am

@thread (probably not part of todays action just me sorting stuff out)

In post 4985, Josh_B wrote:OK nothing new has really happened. I still believe beast charizard's claim over reinoe's. because...

In post 4945, reinoe wrote:I did nvestigate boon. I got a not-mafia result. Cuz you know his claim was dicey and that's what a good cop would do.


doesn't make total sense when there's a werewolf faction.


As you know I scum read your predecessors actions. You're not him perhaps you can look town to me?

explain how it didn't at that time make sense to you?
(I don't care if you have changed your mind. I want to know what you thought when you made that post.)

It wont I expect be highly alignment indicative, but hey we seem to be lynching someone else today for sure, so every little bit helps?

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Post Post #5004  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:01 am

In post 4986, reinoe wrote:
In post 4952, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 4942, reinoe wrote:Also why is Beast actively lurking and selectively choosing not to answer some questions and then choosing to answer others?


Which ones have a missed?

In post 4788, Izariael wrote:
In post 4782, beastcharizard wrote:Reinoe is just scum. Call it gut or whatever you want they just give me no town vibes what so ever.

Thor is leaning town because of how Reinoe treats them. I don't see them being partners together.

goodmorning is interaction with Reinoe. At least one of the people in Reinoe's big question post around when they first came in has to be scum. We have eliminated Thor by interaction and goodmorning fits the bill greatly.


So you've scumread reinoe from gutfeels, then felt comfortable listing Thor and goodmorning as leaning town and scum respectively because of their interactions with said scumread? There's nothing at all from either of them that you felt was alignment-indicative? They've both been far more active than reinoe, seeing as reinoe was a slot replacement. What about Day 1 stuff from gm/Thor?


This post was before I claimed I believe so after outing I have a guilty on you, all my associative things make sense. Activity means nothing to me if you can't already tell. What about Day 1 stuff? I feel I have a better chance of reading someone off the interaction with the known scum than I do individually.


In post 4862, reinoe wrote:So beast, if you have such a huge problem with asking "who is town"...

1) why did you do it?

2) why didn't you interrogate me about it?


I have already explained how what I did was different than what you did and so have others. Second I didn't interrogate you since I was going to be investigating you. I knew I would have my answer at night. I also needed you to think I was some incompotent fool so you wouldn't kill me and keep me around as a PL or Mislynch bait.

In post 4901, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4899, T S O wrote:I'm conflicted about this, even though I normally just go with the first claim and really want to do so here as well.


There are things to be conflicted about.
Beast not answering my questions is one.
That looks shifty to me.

In post 4903, Shiro wrote:Best is avoiding answering anything really.(still hasnt explained how scripten vote on cho make me scum) (or post the post for that matter axl did)
Beast since you apparenly were faking being behind why did u vote dave? why was reinoe a scum read at the time in order to make him worth investigating over other people ?

The above doesn't directly involve you ignoring questions but I would like to point out it's been very noticable by the players who have been trying to engage with you.


I thought dave had a chance of being scum so I voted him. I have totally explained my reinoe scum read already. It doesn't change that much from end of day to when I claim.

I hope my replies are obvious in that quote.

Anything else I have missed?

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Post Post #5005  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:05 am

In post 4999, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 4997, AxleGreaser wrote:If that is the case why were you in this post earlier fishing for someone else to say there is a mafia faction in the game?


I am under the assumption cops only find mafia.

Thats funny (peculiar scummy)

earlier you thought this made reinoe scum
In post 4867, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 4826, reinoe wrote:You'll all be happy to know that I got a not-mafia result on boonskies. Because that's how cops in multi-ball get results. Not in the forM of "guilty" "not guilty".


This post can literally only come from scum. Multiball can't be confirmed until a flip of mafia is seen. They know they are mafia so they know it is multiball.


and yet you were fishing for someone else to suggest there was mafia in the game? due to you being a cop?

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Post Post #5006  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:38 am

I also pretty much knew it was multiball when i found out my role pm, and then there were 4+ neighborhoods and probably also a mason duo.
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Post Post #5007  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:07 am

In post 4914, Slandaar wrote:
In post 4911, goodmorning wrote:That would be even better play.

Yeah, because it is working so well.

He seems to have succeeded so far, got reinoe pushed up quite quickly even though he's been 20000% useless this game and therefore pretty utterly unbelievable.

Given that he's been a likely compromise lynch for a while (and likely would remain so) and this strategy both
1. brings him down with the possibility of someone (not his team) getting lynched first and
2. brings him down in a loud distracting way that doesn't out any of his teammates

I'd say it's excellent play.

@reinoe: Amished isn't even a good tell.

In post 4943, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4842, goodmorning wrote:Eminently possible, given Thor's role.

So what I'm doing is a bus then, yeah?

reinoe could be yours, you could be doing a bus, beast could be truthing (super incredible unlikely), probably other things I can't think of.

In post 4957, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4839, goodmorning wrote:I don't believe you either, though if either of you is one it's definitely not beast.

I think this should be expanded on.
Wow us GM.

I've said both of these sentences before:
beast has been utterly useless.
reinoe has made more good points this game than I have.

In post 4960, Thor665 wrote:Please describe why, as scum, he would claim a false result on you at a point where he didn't even really look to be in that much risk of being lynched and at a point in the game where any non-Werewolf faction (which, by definition you claim to know exists) would have just been given a leg up on the wolves, or, if he's a wolf, had just lost a member and was down on the scorecards.

The scum plan literally is 'I'mma screw over my slot to deal with the threat of Reinoe!'
And the only way that works is if he's a two shot role cop or something. I dunno, if they have daytalk maybe he's the chosen sacrifice - but, still - it's a sacrifice play. Why do you think he did it?

GM can try to field that one too from within her cloud of wonders.

Well, you can see my above response to Slandaar for this, but I think he was in much more danger of being today's lynch than you apparently do. Given that this Town is utterly shitty at everything, today would have been another lynch that was just ok, and the most just ok lynch is the lurker who contributed nothing.

@Iz: Well, technically it's possible to have two of a role in any given game (I had 2 Gunsmiths last time I modded a Large) but it's unlikely, and given the exclusive nature of the results they've claimed it's even less likely, and given that beast has done nothing...

ugh this game is why i don't larges
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Post Post #5008  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:17 am

In post 4971, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4970, beastcharizard wrote:If I am lynched for some dumb reason, yall are going to flash lynch Reinoe tomorrow right?

If you flip even night cop - clearly yes.
If not - clearly no.

Why even ask this?


Err becuase he is not.

If he was it would not be a question he would even think about?
if he was a cop he could be smug in knowledge it would happen not be looking to make deals.

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Post Post #5009  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:31 am

In post 4975, Boonskiies wrote:
In post 4963, Izariael wrote:
In post 4959, Boonskiies wrote:In other news, Izariael's 4933 feels like he knows far much more than he should. That is what originally had me scum reading him Night 1 in our neighborhood, and this is the reason why I am lingering scum reading him. I also don't like how he obviously wants to get rid of me, yet doesn't want a push on me. That's probably only seen majorly from my perspective, as I'm the one he's referring to, and the one where he will NOT be able to get rid of me.


First of all, it's a thing called speculation. I don't claim to know 100% what happened. I'm offering what I think to be the most likely occurrence of events. You keep spinning it as though I'm saying "this is absolutely what happened" rather than "this is what I think happened". Stop. Please. It's getting annoying.

Second, I'm not pushing for your lynch. I'm really not interested in pushing you at all at this moment beyond getting your facts straight. I posted a series of roleclaims that have been made, and again, SPECULATED that not all of those claims were truthful or town-aligned. I did not say "none of them are town/true".

In post 4933, Izariael wrote:**Somewhat on-topic**


The bolded means that I don't think ALL FOUR of these claims are town. It does not mean:
-all four of these claims are NOT TOWN
-I am singling out Boon as the liar amongst the four claims. Lynch him.

What part of "it does not mean" didn't you understand?

I fail to see the purpose of this post unless you misunderstood my post.
I have the comprehensive ability of a vegetable.

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Post Post #5010  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:01 am

In post 4895, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 4826, reinoe wrote:You'll all be happy to know that I got a not-mafia result on boonskies. Because that's how cops in multi-ball get results. Not in the forM of "guilty" "not guilty".

I really do not think this is true.

I'll look around later to see if this is true but I think its more about a mods personal choice in language.

In post 4835, reinoe wrote:Three kills in one night and Beast is pretending we don't all know it's multiball +vig.

3 kill=//=mutliball. Other than Boons claiming to know its MB....what makes you think its multiball? Or are you counting sk+ww as multiball?

Werewolf flip+my cop result is not-mafia. Which means that when I do select properly they'll get a result of "mafia" unless this is the trollingest mod.

My cop result+Werewolf flip pretty much confirms multiball. The third kill re-affirms this further.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

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Post Post #5011  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:09 am

In post 4837, Nero Cain wrote:I guess reinoe scum makes sense 'cause he wasn't playing super anti-town like last game and he has a cop guilty on him.

vote:renoe

Nero, I'm a little saddened by this. I confessed that I was trolling in that "completely ridiculous" game because I was roleplaying being "completely ridiculous". I had been wanting to troll a large game for a long time.

People are voting me for without thinking about whether it's right. Thinking about the game should show that Beast's claim does not make sense.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

Selkie

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Post Post #5012  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:01 am

I had a thought over the night which could be wrong:

Would leaving them both alive do anything? It makes scum waste a nightkill on potentially both of them, and only 1 faction can actually shoot the real Cop, which would then get their teammate quicklynched.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #5013  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:01 am

I can't help but feel this is somehow flawed but I don't see how.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #5014  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:06 pm

In post 5005, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4999, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 4997, AxleGreaser wrote:If that is the case why were you in this post earlier fishing for someone else to say there is a mafia faction in the game?


I am under the assumption cops only find mafia.

Thats funny (peculiar scummy)

earlier you thought this made reinoe scum

That is incorrect. Reinoe was getting onto me for asking if people thought there was mafia in the game even though I was a cop that finds mafia. They said that it was confirmed multi-ball now. They said their result was how someone in multiball gets results yet I don't ever remember them saying anything about how the game was multiball until after I claimed. They should have known their result type the whole game thus by their logic telling them it was multiball the whole game. So since they are a "cop" with that type of result they shouldn't have ever questioned multiball. That is using their logic not mine.
In post 4867, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 4826, reinoe wrote:You'll all be happy to know that I got a not-mafia result on boonskies. Because that's how cops in multi-ball get results. Not in the forM of "guilty" "not guilty".


This post can literally only come from scum. Multiball can't be confirmed until a flip of mafia is seen. They know they are mafia so they know it is multiball.


and yet you were fishing for someone else to suggest there was mafia in the game? due to you being a cop?

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Post Post #5015  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:09 pm

In post 5008, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 4971, Thor665 wrote:
In post 4970, beastcharizard wrote:If I am lynched for some dumb reason, yall are going to flash lynch Reinoe tomorrow right?

If you flip even night cop - clearly yes.
If not - clearly no.

Why even ask this?


Err becuase he is not.

If he was it would not be a question he would even think about?
if he was a cop he could be smug in knowledge it would happen not be looking to make deals.


People have said they believed both our claims and neither of our claims. That means people still think we could both be town or scum. I don't need people going: "Reinoe is just dumb town fake claiming, lets keep him alive." or anything of the sort. Hell someone could suggest I didn't even inspect reinoe and the way this is going yall wouldn't even pursue the lynch tomorrow.

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Post Post #5016  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:12 pm

In post 5012, T S O wrote:I had a thought over the night which could be wrong:

Would leaving them both alive do anything? It makes scum waste a nightkill on potentially both of them, and only 1 faction can actually shoot the real Cop, which would then get their teammate quicklynched.


Yes it would piss me off. That is what it would do. WE HAVE A GUARANTEED MAFIA LYNCH! Why in your right mind would you want to skip over that?

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Post Post #5017  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:24 pm

Beast is now moved beyond obfuscation and is now flat out lying...again. I voted him because his post 4807 is the direct opposite of everything that's happened in the game at that point.


Also why is Beast accusing me of being mafia? I thought he got results of guilty-not guilty. If those are his results then he would be accusing me of being scum. Beast has just outed himself as a werewolf making a sacrifice play.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

Selkie

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Post Post #5018  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:27 pm

In post 5017, reinoe wrote:Beast is now moved beyond obfuscation and is now flat out lying...again. I voted him because his post 4807 is the direct opposite of everything that's happened in the game at that point.


Also why is Beast accusing me of being mafia? I thought he got results of guilty-not guilty. If those are his results then he would be accusing me of being scum. Beast has just outed himself as a werewolf making a sacrifice play.

Well he could just as easily be mafia making a sacrifice play too.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

Selkie

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Post Post #5019  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:30 pm

GUILTY is the result a cop gets! Cops inspect for MAFIA.

How is that not obvious?

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Post Post #5020  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:43 pm

In post 5019, beastcharizard wrote:GUILTY is the result a cop gets! Cops inspect for MAFIA.

How is that not obvious?

Cops could just as easily get results on SK (but we don't have one) or WW. It depends on the mod. You're obviously faking.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

Selkie

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Post Post #5021  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:08 pm

In post 4991, reinoe wrote:This all screamS gambit to me...

Why pick you though? No offense meant - but of all the available people to choose to 1 v 1 with as a gambit risk - why would you be amongst the top three choices?

In post 4993, beastcharizard wrote:It doesn't say anything about detecting mafia or werewolves it just says I choose someone to investigate and get back said results.

Please go, pull up your role PM, re-read the entire thing, and then clarify that this is correct.
What do you detect for? The role PM should say - I am fine if the result is guilty/not guilty but "guilty of what?" should be in the role PM.
Please get me that info.

In post 4994, AxleGreaser wrote:I have been struggling with just how to do it?

Do what I did - ask him a direct question.
It's a secret and magical way of forcing a direct answer.

In post 5001, beastcharizard wrote:Forgot to address this. I only played this way BECAUSE I am a PR. I was trying to preserve my life as long as possible to be able to use my ability.

Show me all the games you got nightkilled Night 1 by scum for being too functional as town and I'll accept that as a valid move on your part.
Otherwise I do not, and consider it poor play.

In post 5007, goodmorning wrote:I've said both of these sentences before:
beast has been utterly useless.
reinoe has made more good points this game than I have.

That fails to address why you think both of them are lying - especially with you then voting neither if you do believe this.
Walk me through that one.

In post 5012, T S O wrote:I had a thought over the night which could be wrong:

Would leaving them both alive do anything? It makes scum waste a nightkill on potentially both of them, and only 1 faction can actually shoot the real Cop, which would then get their teammate quicklynched.

It's a pretty 'meh' plan in my view, it only draws off one scum kill (regardless of whether there will be four or two between here and there) and by the time it sorts it - we could have already had a scum lynch even if picking wrong first, which would be more valuable.

Why do you think it has any value at all as a plan?

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Post Post #5022  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:12 pm

In post 5021, Thor665 wrote:Show me all the games you got nightkilled Night 1 by scum for being too functional as town and I'll accept that as a valid move on your part.
Otherwise I do not, and consider it poor play.


I have no examples. I went through a slump as town where I just gave minimal effort but I lasted until almost the end of the game. When I noticed I could get far into the game like this I figured it would be good to test it as a PR. This is the first game I had teh chance to do this in. I think it didn't work as effectively since I replaced in rather than started the game. So it is going to be poor play to you. Everyone tries strategies that don't work out.

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Post Post #5023  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:16 pm

In post 5021, Thor665 wrote:Please go, pull up your role PM, re-read the entire thing, and then clarify that this is correct.
What do you detect for? The role PM should say - I am fine if the result is guilty/not guilty but "guilty of what?" should be in the role PM.
Please get me that info.


It doesn't say guilty for what. It just says I can choose someone and get the stated result. I looked at my role PM when I was first asked to clarify.

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Post Post #5024  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:17 pm

In post 5020, reinoe wrote:
In post 5019, beastcharizard wrote:GUILTY is the result a cop gets! Cops inspect for MAFIA.

How is that not obvious?

Cops could just as easily get results on SK (but we don't have one) or WW. It depends on the mod. You're obviously faking.


Show me a game where cops got results on WW. I didn't consider SK so that is a good point I guess.

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