NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

reinoe
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Post Post #5050  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:06 pm

Ewwww...

In post 5043, Thor665 wrote:That said - I think Slandaar looks pretty townish and is approaching the situation fairly.

Obviously you and I disagree here. Slandaar has been chainsaw defending Beast's claim and even inferring arguments that beast made that beast has never actually made.

In post 5043, Thor665 wrote:Your secondary in time claim would be silly to take at face value - the only way it even makes sense is if there is a rolecop in Beast's faction, and, frankly, a lynch of you could work for me just to help learn that.

Yay for beast's fake claim then. While I don't deny that I'm in the unenviable situation of being on the receiving end of a literal "fake guilty" (because Beast refuses to even elaborate on how his cop result works), given the amount questionable behavior surrounding his claim I think it's crap that there are indeed a number of people taking his claim at face value. Like I said, if town mislynches me today then it'll be a case study on what types of behavior town will tolerate when there's a claim. Can I get a link to the time AP faked a guilty on you? Because I'm kinda surprised that given the amount of diceyness surrounding Beast's claim and the fact that you've been on the receiving end of a fake guilty, you're willing to accept this.

On a second note, I hate "information lynches" even more than quicklynches and compromise lynches. I've never seen "information lynch" give information that shouldn't readily be available. For example...we need to know if there's a rolecop. I just said there has to be one. Now of course you can assume I'm lying but you can more justifiably assume that it's the truth because holy crap Beast's play has been legit scummy.

In post 5043, Thor665 wrote:You being town gives us confirmed BP town in Boonderp though - which is at least amusing as scum lose that easy as pie mislynch.

Boons is not an easy pie lynch, which was a contributing factor to why I investigated him. If he's scum, his play gets townread.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

Selkie

goodmorning
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Post Post #5051  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:21 pm

In post 5043, Thor665 wrote:You being town gives us confirmed BP town in Boonderp though - which is at least amusing as scum lose that easy as pie mislynch.

...nooooo, it would be confirmed not-Mafia Boon who could still be SK or WW or whatever.

@Axle: Have you asked me those questions yet?
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
Calling On Dragons coming eventually!

Get to know a very pleasant AM.

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Post Post #5052  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:47 pm

In post 5051, goodmorning wrote:...nooooo, it would be confirmed not-Mafia Boon who could still be SK or WW or whatever.

BP WW? :igmeou: Tell me more about how you think that makes sense.

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Post Post #5053  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:02 pm

In post 5051, goodmorning wrote:
In post 5043, Thor665 wrote:You being town gives us confirmed BP town in Boonderp though - which is at least amusing as scum lose that easy as pie mislynch.

...nooooo, it would be confirmed not-Mafia Boon who could still be SK or WW or whatever.

@Axle: Have you asked me those questions yet?



as it turned out, I have changed my mind about where I want to go today, and I have I had other things to do.
Its also kinda more interesting watching you interact as you have been.

have you stopped, pretending for effect, to be not reading my posts?

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Post Post #5054  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:33 pm

In post 5049, Thor665 wrote:You basically used a lot of words to say very little there.


Indeed I did, especially if you consider all the words in and

but I specifically said one or two lines of thinking that you had seemingly shut down thinking about.

this possibility:
Which is:
beast is WW scum who thought Reinoe is a mafia, and the mafia team was trying to lynch him. Beast counter strikes by claiming cop to get a mafia lynched to restore some balance at 2Mv2W. If it pans out then the two anti town factions are again evens. The alternative of ww!beast getting lynched at it being 3M vs 1WW is bad enough that it seems like a good plan.
Even if mafia actually believe the claim that beast is an even night cop, he is only an even night cop...

and this one:
If when beast flip scum, reinoe may be a town cop and beasts faction had role cop(hence the not coincidental matching claims), or Beast thought Reinoe was mafia!scum. Beast may or may not have been right.

Look more words,
you can go on considering your version of events which limits it to which claim is legit town, and merely poor play.

and i will go on also considering the other "painful" options.

Right now I consider Beast more likely to flip scum, specifically WW. At 3v1 I expect the 1 WW to shoot at Mafia as they are the WWs biggest threat.
(if maf get to effectively control the lynch and their shot the one WW is basically doomed)
As that one WW can still shoot one maf a night, mafia need to finish of the WW team.

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Post Post #5055  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:39 pm

I actually addressed one, and the other is such a long specific longshot it more comfortably falls within another scenario that I also already discussed - and you bringing up both of those considerations has nothing to do with my presented conclusions as neither actually changes the logic I'm using to consider the proper lynch today.

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Post Post #5056  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:13 pm

In post 5055, Thor665 wrote:I actually addressed one, and the other is such a long specific longshot it more comfortably falls within another scenario that I also already discussed - and you bringing up both of those considerations has nothing to do with my presented conclusions as neither actually changes the logic I'm using to consider the proper lynch today.



as you lack sufficient words to even define which one you considered and which one you didnt...

Where did you deal with

beast is WW who thought reinoe was mafias trying to lynch him. Hence his play is a plausible not kamikaze driven response.

I see you indicating to reinoe no plausible motive for a 1v1

This for instance specifically assumes 1 is scum as the only option...
it only draws off one scum kill (regardless of whether there will be four or two between here and there) and by the time it sorts it - we could have already had a scum lynch even if picking wrong first, which would be more valuable.


responds to role cop version of events, where the need to react to mafia trying to lynch a WW makes it less imperative. Why would ateam in MB sacrifice member to remove a threat to both?

There was this
In post 5043, Thor665 wrote:Also, I'm really starting to doubt a suicide play run on you - because that is also required to have you be town (and, heck, the whole rolecop/suicide play applies equally if you're scum, really, so it's a very thin defense you're sitting on)

but no that doesnt quite cover it,

as the play is not suicide to flip a mafia as WW, and does not depend on there being a role cop
if beast is a WW who he thought maf were trying to lynch Beast. Flipping mafia reinoe would even it up at 2v2, and beats would think that meant mafia had to shoot beast. In that case maf and WW are in a 2v2 shoot out again. Indeed best case scenario was mafia believe beats is a neutered (N4) cop and simply don't shoot him as they are looking for the WW's to get ahead again.

So no dismissing it as a suicide play is just wrong.

reinoe
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Post Post #5057  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:34 pm

In post 4937, beastcharizard wrote:
@reinoe: I didn't have to look to know he did nothing. He literally was in my game for a long time and did nothing so it was a safe bet to know he did nothing. but I did go and look. --->I looked to see if I was a claimed role and to see if I could find any crumbs.<---

@guy who said my promise was antitown:

I need to get people to understand I am.......lying

Oh hey, look at what I found while getting drunk. Between admitting that he's not a power role, losing track of whether or not he was paying attention or pretending not to pay attention, and all the scum slips, I'm really not sure what more town could possibly want. Beast has done everything to look scummy except literally claim scum.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

Selkie

reinoe
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Post Post #5058  (ISO)  » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:43 pm

Can someone explain why an Even-Night Cop needs to check to see if their predecessor claimed any roles? I know I'm getting kinda drunk and will have to check out soon for the night but like wow, Beast has had a whole lotta scumslips.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

Selkie

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Post Post #5059  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:43 am

In post 4955, Thor665 wrote:@Slandaar - I'm reading that and I don't think it's as clever as you seem to think it is - he would have done the investigation prior to knowing about the three kills - so how is that any sort of catch?

Yes, OK, I see.

It still requires him to think there is a high probability the game is singlescum/vig which seems ... unlikely to say the least.
In post 4956, Thor665 wrote:If Reinoe flips scum would you help me lulz lynch GM immediately thereafter?

Yes.
In post 5007, goodmorning wrote:he's been 20000% useless this game and therefore pretty utterly unbelievable.

What has him doing nothing till today got to do with the believability of his claim?
In post 5052, Thor665 wrote:BP WW?

Uh... why not?
In post 5050, reinoe wrote:Slandaar has been chainsaw defending Beast's claim and even inferring arguments that beast made that beast has never actually made.

Some people call it chainsawing some people call it helping the cop lynch their guilty result.

:]
(technically it wouldn't be a chainsaw anyways)

He made said argument he just didn't explain it aswell as I did.

Slandaar
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Post Post #5060  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:48 am

Beast is town because his play makes sense it's a bit derpish but it does make sense. He came into today made a bunch of arguments on Reinoe, didn't work, so he claimed.

His claim makes sense, the story makes sense, the whole 'Oh he's a rolecop!' is terrible. Reinoe clearly claimed the same as Beast to try to get that angle it's obvious because he didn't immediately accuse him of being/having a rolecop to instill in others this idea. When you think you think of something you believe it more.

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Post Post #5061  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:51 am

In post 4841, reinoe wrote:Beast is a rolecop guys.

Reinoe GETS FOUR VOTES before saying this.

Get it? Reread. Seriously.

reinoe
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Post Post #5062  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:28 am

In post 5061, Slandaar wrote:
In post 4841, reinoe wrote:Beast is a rolecop guys.

Reinoe GETS FOUR VOTES before saying this.

Get it? Reread. Seriously.

BEAST GETS FOUR Votes before claiming!

Get it? Reread. Seriously.

I've been posting from work all week and was getting flashwagoned based on a fake-claim. I had to resort to phone posting in between phone calls. Your push on me is shit.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

Selkie

T S O
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Post Post #5063  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:56 am

goddamn it I don't even care

vote: reinoe

if it's wrong, fine, I don't care, lynch me after Beast. if it's right, I'm great.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #5064  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:04 am

@Slandaar - you seem wholly bought into the Beast claim, and I can see that angle - that said, what are your thoughts on the specifics of his roleclaim around the guilty/not guilty business and my conversations with him thereupon?

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Post Post #5065  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:04 am

In post 5063, T S O wrote:Smurfdamn it I don't even care

Why do you suddenly not care?

T S O
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Post Post #5066  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:09 am

we're going in circles and I also like Beast more than reinoe

it's awful town play but that's been me this game so far. oh well.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso" -Marquis

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Post Post #5067  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:12 am

Why not just play better then?

Thor665
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Post Post #5068  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:12 am

I am not fond of the new meta trend of hanging a hat on bad play and then acting like it's okay because 'ah-ha, I'm self aware!'
That is like the opposite of making it okay.

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Post Post #5069  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:23 am

In post 5058, reinoe wrote:Can someone explain why an Even-Night Cop needs to check to see if their predecessor claimed any roles? I know I'm getting kinda drunk and will have to check out soon for the night but like wow, Beast has had a whole lotta scumslips.


Well I have seen a slot claim 3 different roles by 3 different people in said slot and it was a town slot. I needed to see if my predecessor left any crumbs to make my claim more meaningful. You can't deny crumbs someone made before I was in the game. Well you can but they are harder to dispute. Lastly if they had claimed after being run up i would have adjusted my play because my plan was to lay low and use my PR as to not get shot but as ah outed PR I should actually do something since i was probably going to die at night anyway.

beastcharizard
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Post Post #5070  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:25 am

Also still not message from the mod.

goodmorning
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Post Post #5071  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:37 am

In post 5052, Thor665 wrote:
In post 5051, goodmorning wrote:...nooooo, it would be confirmed not-Mafia Boon who could still be SK or WW or whatever.

BP WW? :igmeou: Tell me more about how you think that makes sense.

Why assume he's telling the truth about being BP?

In post 5053, AxleGreaser wrote:have you stopped, pretending for effect, to be not reading my posts?

It's not impossible.

In post 5059, Slandaar wrote:
In post 5007, goodmorning wrote:he's been 20000% useless this game and therefore pretty utterly unbelievable.

What has him doing nothing till today got to do with the believability of his claim?

While effort is not indicative of alignment, doing nothing at all does not make one likely to be Town.
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
Calling On Dragons coming eventually!

Get to know a very pleasant AM.

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Post Post #5072  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:27 pm

What's the point in all the excess discussion when both are as good as dead?

reinoe
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Post Post #5073  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:58 pm

@thor
In post 5050, reinoe wrote:
In post 5043, Thor665 wrote:That is nothing - you should see AP's fakeclaim he ran on me. it literally made no sense at all and was provably wrong. Town mislynched me anyways because town is dumb and sheeps PRs whenever they get the excuse to shut down their brains and not do that painful "thinking" business.

Like I said, if town mislynches me today then it'll be a case study on what types of behavior town will tolerate when there's a claim. Can I get a link to the time AP faked a guilty on you? Because I'm kinda surprised that given the amount of diceyness surrounding Beast's claim and the fact that you've been on the receiving end of a fake guilty, you're willing to accept this.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

Selkie

reinoe
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Post Post #5074  (ISO)  » Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:17 pm

In post 5069, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 5058, reinoe wrote:Can someone explain why an Even-Night Cop needs to check to see if their predecessor claimed any roles? I know I'm getting kinda drunk and will have to check out soon for the night but like wow, Beast has had a whole lotta scumslips.


Well I have seen a slot claim 3 different roles by 3 different people in said slot and it was a town slot. I needed to see if my predecessor left any crumbs to make my claim more meaningful. You can't deny crumbs someone made before I was in the game. Well you can but they are harder to dispute. Lastly if they had claimed after being run up i would have adjusted my play because my plan was to lay low and use my PR as to not get shot but as ah outed PR I should actually do something since i was probably going to die at night anyway.

But once again this doesn't make sense. You're saying your play is entirely self-conscience and you care almost exclusively about how your claim would come across. Like why the hell does a cop truly care about how their claim comes across? The only time I have trouble convincing people of a claim is when I'm faking. Seriously...

In MINI 1696 (THE GAME REFERENCED EARLIER) I fake claimed nurse. In mini 1600 I fake claimed cop guilty on someone. Those are the only times I've had trouble convincing people of a claim. I even claimed a customized role recently in NY 177, and even though it was a customized role people believed it because I was telling the truth. If your claim matches you play people believe it.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

Selkie

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