NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[Nero Cain]

is town motivated and correct town play.

A PL Lynch list that long, for players with filter and content that size, is according to you

"correct town play"

Would pl

Axle
T S O
Thor
The Fonz
beastcharizard

not even in my nightmares is that correct town play

that you then want to PL Thor because '

you are unsure of him

' and he is a '

fluff monkey

'...

Spoiler: What is a fluff monkey (more AxleLogic?)

BTW do you even know what a fluff monkey is? It is not monkey fluff:
This and not this is a fluff monkey. And FYI: as an AxleGreaser I say being a FluffMonkey is an honourable existence, if all men could say as much it would be better world.

I do have a serious question here. Do you even know what the term policy lynch means? The wiki definition is "Most commonly, it describes the lynch of a player who is not found to be particularly scummy, but because the player's bad play will hurt the town later on." but IMO I'm including players that are a little bit scummy and are hard to read 'cause their play is bad. In EVERY game, no one is going to get all the lynches they want all the time, these are essentially my compromise lynches.

[Nero Cain]

I thought you were scummy for claiming that Boons contradicted himself, when he didn't. Your reaction was to start questioning me and treating me like a scum read, which is the definition of a OMGUS attack. Yes, I know that OMGUS does come from town but it also comes from scum and I think its hard to tell the difference between the two. IF you called someone scum and they attack you back, would you think they are scum or town?

Yes and no. As it depends on intent. I have developed strong town reads on people because they attacked me. (If they are town they have to try and work out my alignment somehow)
I have developed strong scum reads on people because they neither attacked me, nor worked out my alignment, but somehow just knew.
As for your point I frequently check out people who are scum reading me, one advantage of doing it at that time is they have no excuse to run away and not talk to me.

k. Explain what you think my intent was.

[Nero Cain]

There is this Marvellous thing that we fluff monkeys invented, its called words. When you add then to posts, they convey meaning. try it.

my bad. I thought it was fairly obvious that my bolding a question and then reposting it when I never got a response was me expecting an answer to said question. I just keep forgetting that the education system is real bad these days.

[Nero Cain]

My schooling was so long ago now I dont suffer from this bad modern schooling thing of which you speak.

could have fooled me.

[Nero Cain]

no, I'm lynching Thor 'cause I'm compromising on someone who I think has done some scummy things.

My reads are better than Thor's though.

[Nero Cain]

The tem "fluff monkey" is a term that I (and others, but isn't a common term I think) use to describe a play with a large post count. Here is an example. Is posting alot scummy? meh, its nullish. I think there's scum motivation in it and I know that I've lynched both Saki scum and Mastin scum for artificially inflating thier vote count.

I'm playing the way I am for a reason

. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the main subject of Day 2.

This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the main points of discussion.

No on D1 one your claim was about your role being "the main subject of D2"

Boons 2581 was saying that...see....mods know what they are doing. When a mod makes a game with hoods they EXPECT hood talk and thats what he was saying. So this looks really misreppy.

^^^
that was the basis of my scumread on you.

Because frankly its making you look scummy, as making baseless insults that put people down and denigrate their opinions is a scummy way to argue a point.

here is your OMGUS attack on me.

Earlier, you were arguing that MY attack on you was scummy.

So I asked

IF you called someone scum and they attack you back, would you think they are scum or town?

You told me that it depends on intent.

I asked you to explain my intent.

You then

LIED

and claimed that you never attacked me.

I read that you habitually wanting to Pl lots of people, as per your reads list.

I have not pushed a single policy lynch. I have voted you, Tobylobby/Fonz, and Flubber. Those were all scumreads at the time of my vote. And all three were explained why I was voting. We are three days till deadline and its time to compromise. So I shouldn't vote someone that I'm suspicious of, why? So tell me wich pl did I push, if I did not push a pl then why are you claiming that I did?

and look Nero has been on and off the Thor lynch with never a statement that he considers Thor scummy.

ok.

So, I haven't really commented on the Thor/PV situation yet. TBH I skimmed over most of it. Ummmm...I got kind of a NY164 vibe. In that game I had argued that the size of the game/current site meta made it unlikely to be singleball. One of Nacho or CTD (both scum btw) had asked me to show them "proof".

So yeah, Thor asking for proof from PV made me a lil' weary

.

Why? Do I need to convince you you're town?

no, I read fine but I want to see if you have a legit town read or if you are just appeasing me

, but also didn't you have me as a somewhat scummy read? If so, what did I do to change that?

I'm asking you a very simple question Thor. I see no reason why you are acting out.

Thor v. Nero Cain looks weird. I'm not sure I'm following what Thor was doing where he told Nero that he was buddying him, and I'm not sure why Nero took what Thor said as reason to vote him. (Yes, I realize that buddying is a scum tactic. I don't think it follows that claiming to be buddying someone is also a scum tactic.)

Well, I don't really see a reason that Thor would not elaborate on why I'm townish. Explain the town motivation there?


dislike tier's asking boon to claim.
dislike gamr for similar reason. His "If it is multiball all you had to do was wait one day and you could of keeped it hidden from scum." is p silly. Scum already know if its mb or not.
still dislike the toby slot. Her claim that I was being "iffy" on my Csaro read and was scummy for that while being iffy herself is highly hypocritical. I also dislike fon'z "catchup" post being a bandwagon hop onto PV.
hephaestus, dave and muffin are my other scum reads.

maaayyyybbbeeee Thor. I'm pretty unsure on him.

maaayyybbbe scripten

this is a scum list, and golly Thor is on it.

Who would have thought my vanity vote would spark some actual looking into Thor?

TBF, I think Thor is just extremely argumentative. My vote on him was more me being goofy than anything but I guess

him not explaining his town read on me is rather silly.

This is bad.

agree. No reason to not give other reads to help the town.

If slap fight meant to you what it means to me I thought you should want to as well.

It doesn't. I'm calling it a slap fight just 'cause they are bitching back and forth.

Of the two I think Thor is the scummier

, but I also think its a bunch of noise. What is your current read on Thor?

Slandaar
Scripten
The Fonz
TierShif
Garmr
Muffin
IZ

maybe Axle

maybe Thor

^
is p much where I want to go today.

Another scum list, with Thor on it.

These posts are claiming that I am suspicious of Thor which is consistent with me having him on my pl list. You are claiming to have ISOed me and that you did not find any of these posts. I find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. Why are you once again lying?

His D1 case on PereV was all sorts of horrible (but you only pointed that out on D2, didnt say so on D1, and never described what and how it was horrible)

We've already been over this so all I'll say is you are pushing schematics instead of an actual contradiction.

[Nero Cain]

AND NOW Thor is getting all pissed 'cause I tried to move the game along by getting his claim out of the way.

Thor, who was your second biggest scumread on d1?

[Nero Cain]

gonna pull an Axle here...

I have not pushed a single policy lynch.

pants on fire

Yours is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.

AXLE and TSO were defined most recently by you before that as policy lynches.

lets just pretend that was pushing a pl. Its singular.

In post 4426, AxleGreaser wrote:
I read that you

habitually

wanting to Pl lots of people, as per your reads list.

look who contradicted themselves!

[Nero Cain]

I stated when I looked

bullshit. You lied. You lied about that, you lied about never attacking me. And another thing, if you think I'm so scummy TODAY for never calling Thor scummy. Why did you ignore that on d1? That is not fluid and makes absolutly no sense from town.

vote:Axle

[Nero Cain]

Axle is scum. I am 100% on this and the next 5 players that vote him get a free invention.

[Nero Cain]

So, you wanna tell me

why you lied about never attacking me?
why you lied about me never suspecting Thor.
and why you never pushed me on d1 despite claiming that I'm doing the same thing today.

also why would town do any of these?

[Nero Cain]

You asked about how to read situation when the person being question responds in what may be characterised as an OMGUS manner.
That does not match the above situation where you describe period when you initially questioned me.

This is you claiming that you never OMGUS attacked me.

You said, I was never suspicious of Thor, I proved you wrong. You can use some timeframe crap or whatever to backtract but the fact is that you lied.


but whatever.

I am really interested in the following: you are claiming that I was scummy today 'cause I have never suspected Thor. On d1 my vote was sitting on Thor. If you are claiming that I never suspected Thor why did you not push me for that yesterday? Or are you saying that I wasn't scummy yesterday 'cause I suspected Thor, if so, why was it unreasonable and scummy to still suspect Thor?

[Nero Cain]

As just shown I specified the time frame in which I looked at your posts.

keep backtracking.

I did claim that if people wanted early scumminess they should ask fonz what he saw

Why do you want him to help make a case for you?

Today you are calling the day 1 PereV Wagon all kinds of horrible whereas yesterday it was merely a wagon that did not sway you 3383

just 'cause it was different language doesn't mean they are different. You keep on making pushes based on language.

I did not claim you are doing the same thing today.

You are arguing today that I had never suspected Thor. If you are claiming that I never suspected him then it makes very little sense for you to not have pushed me for that on d1. If you are claiming that I was suspecting Thor why is it unreasonable for me to still be suspicious of him? Neiter makes much sense.

[Nero Cain]

You said, I was never suspicious of Thor, I proved you wrong.

Nope I didnt say that

, you didnt prove that as most especially you

never showed that I had said it.

Well lets show it!

really I found no evidence of that in your filter.

and here is my summary of you doing nothing but wanting to PL thor

As you did not call him scummy, that is an indication you do not find him scummy.

and that's just 3 quotes!

Your attemtp even creatively edited out the text that Post then reposted in big green letters specifying the time frame in which i had looked.

Time frame is bunk. No one with a town pm thats not trying to play scummy to bolster their scum meta is going to go "oh hey, a new day, time for new suspects!"

Then posted reads list that did not list thor as scummy but only as PL
Then posted a number of times saying you would PL thor and didnt mention scumminess at all.

Yep, there are a bunch of other slots that are super scummy so me still being suspicious of Thor and not caring if he lived or died means what?
If you were still suspicious of a slot but it was no longer one of your main concerns and you'd be willing to compromise on it, what would you call it?

[Nero Cain]

So I stopped possibly playing against my wincon by meh voting

I see you are claiming that your wincon is to lynch town.

[Nero Cain]

Fonz/Nero/Thor y/y?

ahahahaha!

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: nero

Good wagon.

Whats so good about it?

Freaking seriously...there's no possible way Nero's town.

Why should I think a guy is town if he's lying about my actions to push me?

[Nero Cain]

Well Thor, you are effectively doing what you did to me in InuYasha. Getting you to claim and move the gamestate forward was the correct play. Not really sure what you think is "scummy" unless you think I'm faking pro-town play which is just lol. Perhaps instead of calling everyone elses play bad you should look at your own.

[Nero Cain]

[1]AxleGreaser:

@Mod

The name voting me is nero?

---

@captain, errm the ship seems to be running into ice berg Nero anyway?

[

2

3]Nero Cain: Boonskiies, T S O, TierShift

If I went back to voting the slot, and it is in my list of eminently lynchable slots, it would be equal lead wagon?
are you sure its not, in your list?

Spoiler: You could consider these recent compelling arguments

is anyone actually townreading nero after that jump on axle

like fucking really

is anyone actually townreading nero after that jump on axle

like fucking really

Freaking seriously...there's no possible way Nero's town.

If you won't listen to me, listen to him.

For the record, because no one else was apparently willing to read (skim) it and offer a thought.

I found the Axle/Nero thing obnoxious.

That said, though I find Nero's logic derpy (still)

I do have to agree with him that Axle was parsing it weirdly when he was making claims about what Nero did or didn't say vis-a-vi suspecting me and the PL derp talk.

That is not a defense of Nero's bad reads towards my slot -

but he does have the more valid push in that matter, and in my opinion is basically winning the argument

.
Axle was correct though in that Nero chose some creative copy paste to try to prove the point...but ignores that in some of them Nero didn't do that.

[Nero Cain]

So no one hammered Thor? I am confused.

nope.

You should help me lynch Axle or Tier.

[Nero Cain]

You asked, a vague question about a not exactly specified event.

no. Its not vauge, its what happened.

I'm playing the way I am for a reason

. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the main subject of Day 2.

This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the main points of discussion.

No on D1 one your claim was about your role being "the main subject of D2"

Boons 2581 was saying that...see....mods know what they are doing. When a mod makes a game with hoods they EXPECT hood talk and thats what he was saying. So this looks really misreppy.

^^^
that was the basis of my scumread on you.

Because frankly its making you look scummy, as making baseless insults that put people down and denigrate their opinions is a scummy way to argue a point.

here is your OMGUS attack on me.

Earlier, you were arguing that MY attack on you was scummy.

So I asked

IF you called someone scum and they attack you back, would you think they are scum or town?

You told me that it depends on intent.

I asked you to explain my intent.

You then

LIED

and claimed that you never attacked me.

You started calling me scummy for attacking you, that is EXACTLY what an OMGUS attack is. What exactly did you find scummy other than just being angry that I attacked you?

but I don't really know what you are expecting here 'cause like I don't think Boons contradicted himself the way you were claiming. I delt like that was scummy 'cause you were using a bullshit reason to push him.

[Nero Cain]

I do find it intriguing that you want to policy Lynch Thor for being ...

I am pretty much with Thor here in that there's alot of really bad play and its hard to tell the bad from the good.

like I don't want to kill shiro or boon yet. I guess GM, Rein and Dave can go there as well.

^^^^
is basically my town core/not folks I want to lynch yet and thus I don't care that much if anyone else gets lynched (well besides myself). Its functionally the same thing as Thor being willing to lynch anyone. If you believe that its scummy of me that I don't care if my lesser scum reads get lynched, why then are you ignoring Thor for the same reason?

Also as you did some long time ago before you put him on your PL list, have a scummish read on him of some sort.

If you are now claiming that I DID scumread Thor, why do you think it was unreasonable of me to still minorly suspect him and be willing to lynch him?

When we were arguing last night it was early morning here, I MAY have unintentionally misrepped you BUT I think that whole time frame think is junk.

I would also like you to explain why (IYO) it was silly of me to feel like scumIZ was whiteknighting you and then think you were town/not scum with Iz?

[Nero Cain]

Can someone give me the TL:DR case on Dave?

[Nero Cain]

Apart from vote you recently is there something specific Tier has done that moved him up to one of your top two, most likely to flip scum?

Well for one, he's sheeping a bandwagon where NONE of the reasons make any sense and refusing to give any himself--unless you consider some really vague "I didn't like those first 30 posts.".

But its not I haven't previously suspected him.

First of all he was trying to get Boons to full claim on d1.

I also felt like this was scummy.

1.Why is it so weird to want opinions on a scumread?

2.Anyway your associative act falls apart now that muffin flipped town.

1. I'm not a scumread.
2. Yes it does but it doesn't stop me from thinking that he's scum.

Why should I think Flubber is town?

I actually really hated this. I still felt like it was super strange that Flubber was asking Muffin his opinion on me. Apparently his reason was 'cause he was interested in why we had different reads on Boons but I don't see how asking Muffin his opinion on makes any sense in the context of why.

but thats just the stuff in my ISO. I might ISO later, idk.

vote:Tier

TOWN TO ME!

[Nero Cain]

Are you a Yates alt? This is like his play to a T. He'd whine about things and when proven wrong he'd keep arguing and ask me to quote and requote him...

[Nero Cain]

Going to respond to 4566?

[Nero Cain]

You jumping to that conclusion that is not supported by the facts looks a bit scummy to me.

scumhunting isn't about "facts". I felt like you were misrepresenting Boons. Do you think there's possible scum motivation in misrepresenting? If so then why was it scummy of me to see your misrep and assume you are scum?

Your earlier consistent pushes on players who you found PL material without them being your most likely to flip scum candidates, That speaks to me of an intent to find lynch today, not find scum.

Who were my two early votes today? You and Flubber. Why are you pretending like that didn't happen?

So, you wanna tell me

why you lied about never attacking me?

why you lied about me never suspecting Thor.

and why you never pushed me on d1 despite claiming that I'm doing the same thing today.

also why would town do any of these?

and I have shown the two crossed out ones to be literally false. And the authority you appealed to Thor, noticed you snipping post to make it look like i said things that were clearly not the intent of the post you snipped them from.

If your 100% case has substance you need to back those points up.

As for the third point. At no time did i claim everything you did yesterday is the same as everything you did today.
The differences that exist will be one of reasons, I responded differently. Another will be prioritisation of my time.
I already posted at least as many words and posts as is reasonable. (most people appear to think too many)
There will also, (as I recall it,) have been no time/space to get to you yesterday.

Because frankly its making you look scummy, as making baseless insults that put people down and denigrate their opinions is a scummy way to argue a point.

^
that is you attacking me.

You jumping to that conclusion that is not supported by the facts looks a bit scummy to me.

^
that is confirming you were attacking me.

As for the third point. At no time did i claim everything you did yesterday is the same as everything you did today.

I was pushing Thor on d1 right? We agree with. ok...if I was pushing Thor on d1 why do you believe I should have stopped? Now yes, I did downgrade him 'cause I feel a ton of slots are scummier than him. IMO, I feel like its dishonest for you to say that I wasn't pushing Thor and was voting him d1. Why you didn't find that scummy is beyond me.

BUT THE TIME FRAME!

I admit that I missed that and I'm not quite sure when you first said that but it feels like a crutch. We are agreeing that I was pushing Thor on d1, why would I stop being suspicious of him? Town doesn't do that and your implied suggestion that town starts anew each day is all kinds of crazyness.

[Nero Cain]

you are also simultaneously calling me scummy for not pushing Thor but also saying that I'm scummy for pushing policy lynches over my scum reads. This seems dammed if I do, dammed if I don't.

[Nero Cain]

Would you stop pretending like I didn't say this.

I'm playing the way I am for a reason

. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the main subject of Day 2.

This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the main points of discussion.

No on D1 one your claim was about your role being "the main subject of D2"

Boons 2581 was saying that...see....mods know what they are doing. When a mod makes a game with hoods they EXPECT hood talk and thats what he was saying. So this looks really misreppy.

[Nero Cain]

Also as you did some long time ago before you put him on your PL list, have a scummish read on him of some sort.

If you are now claiming that I DID scumread Thor, why do you think it was unreasonable of me to still minorly suspect him and be willing to lynch him?

I claim and always have, that between when you listed Thor as not in your scum read list and was in your PL list.
That while pursuing thor

I only saw (<<<<<<<<< NOTE THIS even if there were others I missed them)

Me being willing to PL Thor 'cause I'm unsure on him

unsure

I mostly wanted you to claim

want you to claim

Just 'cause I'm not a fluff monkey like TSO, Thor or Axle

Thinks Thor is a

fluff monkey

... (is that inherently scummy, and are these people different when town... appears not to matter/be considered) (hence assume this is PL not alignment related)

Would

pl

Thor

That is lots and lots of focus on lynching people who are not your scum reads.
There is no mention of we need to compromise, and that you are lynching anyone less than your preferred lynch.

I find a singular lack of you pursuing people you regarded as scum in that period.

This whole time my vote was on Flubber, so how exactly was I pushing a pl if my vote is on a scumread?

Here is you for instacen definign what wagons you are interested in

[....]
Yours

<thor>

is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.

3 out of for of them are in your PL list.
*hint hint* implies one of those is what you really want.
But surely youd want wagons on your scum reads to pop up? Surely if they are scum reads, because they are scummy, a wagon might pop up?

That is a singular and a large lack of interest in pursuing a lynch on people you actually previously claimed to find scummy.
The only one that you previously found scummy, is aJosh B wagon... and are you pushing it?
Nope
You will only push it if it grows..

That ^^^^^^^^ is a ridiculously scummy set of play.

TBF, you and TSO were annoying the shit out of me. I also didn't feel like you or him were ever going to be helpful so yeah, I can be pretty vengful. Also the Josh wagon only had one vote, even if I moved my vote to Josh my wagon would still be bigger than his so I was ok with lynch bad town/maybe scum Thor so you guys wouldn't lynch 100% confirmed town? But also I didn't hammer Thor right away 'cause I was still posting and reading stuffs + I felt the other players should have a chance to react to his claim.

When we were arguing last night it was early morning here, I MAY have unintentionally misrepped you BUT I think that whole time frame think is junk.

I would also like you to explain why (IYO) it was silly of me to feel like scumIZ was whiteknighting you and then think you were town/not scum with Iz?

Your words suggest you were default reading me as town. Whiteknighting

derp town

.
Not protecting a scummy player, justifying derp play, but

derp town

.

ummmmm....I don't think you are saying what you think you are saying. I think Iz is scum. I think she's backing up a derpy statement and buddying you. Buddying is essentially whiteknighting, just letting you know so you don't yell and scream that I "contradicted" myself. I may or may not quote links from other games where I use the same/similar logic. And also its fairly common.

you are also simultaneously calling me scummy for not pushing Thor

You'd have to show what you interpret as me doing that. (you know give me link back up your claim with facts....)

OH FFS! You know damn well you were just pushing me for not pushing him.

and look Nero has been on and off the Thor lynch with never a statement that he considers Thor scummy.

but also saying that I'm scummy for pushing policy lynches over my scum reads.

Yes pushing policy lynches at this time over scum reads is to me rather inherently scummy.

good thing I've never done that.

I am still prepared to PL him if he just wont play

So why is it ok for you to pl a player that you are suspicious of but I can't?

no, I don't really see a need to really rehash the boon stuff. We can discuss Boons if you wish though.

Where is your Dave case?

[Nero Cain]

The only valid votes now are:
Dave
Josh
Boon

vote:Josh

[Nero Cain]

To my way of thinking that should still be troubling to you.
Yet now somehow this is not problem, Now. When Josh does not to me actually look like he will get lynched, now you vote him?

So....you are saying that I am scummy 'cause I didn't vote Josh with my scum reads and that I'm also scummy for ignoring that now.

because it is PLing a player that just wont play.

So? You should NEVER do that (as town) its one thing if you are being suspicious of him for not playing but to just lynch him for not playing is a horrible reason.

You have no policy for the people you say you want PL, you just have a list. A long list.

I think if you were actually reading instead of skimming/posting random things just to which to call me scum you'd find this untrue.

If the Dave lynch goes through and he flips town that will now be two mislynches you've been on. Why should we believe you are town?

Calls Thor scum on d1.
downgrades Thor but is still suspicious of him.
votes scumread Flubber.
doesn't get any traction on Flubber so I move my vote to a viable lynch (Thor)

Sorry but that makes perfect sense. And you fussing about it doesn't. *shrugz* I still think you are being upset over the fact that I attacked you.

There is still a chance for me that you are town and are right and Thor is scum

^^^^^
this very much looks like him setting up for a potential Thor lynch.

What do you think I am doing that is 'bad play' specifically?

misreading me for 1!!! We had 3 days to deadline. Getting you to claim and move the game along was the correct play. If you want to OMGUS attack me like you did in Inyusa then fine but you are wrong and should stop doing that.

[Nero Cain]

Nero, did you believe Thor's claim?

I neither believe nor disbelieve his claim. (its null and wifom.) I know that JK is a common scum rb claim. So what specifically makes you disbelieve his claim?

So Thor. You are arguing that rolefishing is scummy. Why ignore Tier wanting Boon to full claim on d1 and all the players that jumped off of you as soon as you claimed?

You do realise there is not currently a serious proposal to lynch you today.

but I'm fairly certain there was.

You could instead be trying to get your best plausible scum read lynched.

With less than a day? That's not going to happen. And weren't you just fussing at me that it was scummy of me for voting Flubber and not consolidating. Now you are telling me that I'm scummy for consolidating but not voting my biggest scum read.

Nothing you are saying makes ANY sense. If you really want me to respond and debunk your bad arguments then I will.

may I suggest that if you had rowed the garmr/Josh B wagon harder when it was at 4 and I was voting it...
we would not be here?

I see that you are giving Scripten a freepass on what you just called me on.

Why did you not vote Beast?
What is your case on GM?

[Nero Cain]

I most certainly don't believe his claim

ok, I never said you did?

Is it worth running up someone else who may be a PR?

no but its not like I ran anyone else up.

7)Basically it looks like you didn't hammer thor because you wanted to "look townie" even though you had multiple completely justified reason to do so. I admit I definitely wanted thor hammered and lynched because I think he's scum. The question is why DIDN'T you want thor hammered?

In hindsight, I should have just hammered Thor. But I think the right think to do was to not hammer right away and give the rest of the players a chance to talk.

But don't you think your anger is displaced? I mean, there were a ton of players that unvoted thor?

srs, your vote blows.

[Nero Cain]

2. I do not see what players hopping off of my wagon due to a claim has to do with rolefishing.

anyone else that gets wagoned and is looking at the lynch is being forced to claim. Its the same the Ren is arguing but he's accusing me of running others up when I didn't.

[Nero Cain]

naw. Nothing new happened like at all, Ren. Its also ignoring the fact that Boon and a bunch of others unvoted Thor. So even if I wanted to hammer Thor it was physically impossible.

2. I do not see what players hopping off of my wagon due to a claim has to do with rolefishing.

anyone else that gets wagoned and is looking at the lynch is being forced to claim. Its the same the Ren is arguing but he's accusing me of running others up when I didn't.

misrep.

ok?

Is it worth running up someone else who may be a PR?

What exactly does this mean then?

it was a really gakked up progression and makes no sense.

and I agree I saw gakked up stuff.

naw.

I'm ok with a Thor lynch, he says that he won't claim till intent to hammer, I claim intent to hammer, I wait to hammer 'cause like lol no reason to hammer him yet. I don't see how that not makes sense. The only thing that has ANY merit (but its still wrong) is that I'm scum faking pro-town play.

[Nero Cain]

vote:Dave

Yea, I'm going to vote an unconfirmed over 100% town any day of the week.

I'll likely be asleep when deadline hits so let me get out a color chart so you derps can sheep me to victory incase I get mislynched.

[Nero Cain]

I know or think I know what he's saying but is still fucking stupid.

[Nero Cain]

21 players. 5-6 scum max.

1.

Slandaar

2.

AxleGreaser

4.

Boonskiies

5.

Shiro

6.

reinoe

7.

davesaz

9.

Josh_B

10.

goodmorning

11.

flubbernugget

12. beastcharizard?????
13.

Izariael

17.

Scripten

18.

T S O

19.

Thor665

20.

TierShift

21.

The Fonz

Though it would prob be a good idea to flip Boon at some point.

[Nero Cain]

ok well nm, he's just backtracking now.

Good job Axle, you found an actual contradiction this time.

[Nero Cain]

So it would have been pro-town of me to hammer right after he claimed?

[Nero Cain]

So it would have been pro-town of me to hammer right after he claimed?

based on this...

1)You scum read thor
2)you think thor is PL worthy
3)you think JK is a common scum RB claim.

4)You don't hammer thor? WTF is this?

It would have been consistent with your internal logic.

I see. You agree that it isn't pro-town play to lynch right away but I should have done it just I'm "consistent". Wich is still ignoring all those players that unvoted...

[Nero Cain]

I never said it isn't pro town to lynch right away. Where did that impression come from? I don't see why you didn't hammer unless you wanted to "look town".

As for other people unvoting...I have to admit I haven't analyzed their motivations as heavily as yours. Is there someone who shouldn't have unvoted that I need to take a look at?

Well you keep saying that I'm trying to look town. So what was I doing to "look town"? I am assuming that you are talking about my not lynching Thor right away, if so then you are saying that it is a pro-town thing to do. If not then what?

Why are you assuming that I'm trying to "look town" as opposed to ya know, actually being town and doing stuff that town should do?

Why haven't you analyzed the motives of the players that unvoted? You do know that Thor would have been lynched if they didn't unvote so you are barking up the wrong tree.

[Nero Cain]

axle, what do you think of tiershift?

[Nero Cain]

Reinoe might not be scum but ^ prob is.

We have 3 hours till dl. I'm still not scum and those on my wagon/not voting need to grow up and lynch Dave. If there was more time I'd much rather vote a slot that isn't playing over someone that is just a lurk sack.

[Nero Cain]

vote:IZ

[Nero Cain]

I don't think it's a horrible vot

before I explain I'd really like you to explain why this isn't a bad vote.

[Nero Cain]

I don't think it's a horrible vot

before I explain I'd really like you to explain why this isn't a bad vote.

[Nero Cain]

oh nm

[Nero Cain]

I guess reinoe scum makes sense 'cause he wasn't playing super anti-town like last game and he has a cop guilty on him.

vote:renoe

[Nero Cain]

Oh, and also dave was obvtown so everyone really really needs to stop being in thor's cult of personality or joindate awe or hero worship or whatever the fuck it is.

this seems like a strange thing to say about your scumread.

If

the host generates the scum and the hoods randomly then, the number of people you have seen flipped in the hood has absolutely no impact on whether the next one is scum too.

people do actually alignment indicative things like claim roles

how are claiming roles "alignment indicative"?

Did Scripten discuss anyone a lot or refuse to discuss anyone in the game?

I don't think so...

says he has a moderate scum read on Axle
thinks there are two scum on the PV wagon and was starting to read muffin as scum
I ask him about Iz, Fonz and Garmr. His response is that IZ hasn't done a whole lot but he's not scum reading Iz. Says that Fonz is fluffy but not scum motivated. Has a scumread on Garmr.
thats p much all.

[Nero Cain]

You'll all be happy to know that I got a not-mafia result on boonskies. Because that's how cops in multi-ball get results. Not in the forM of "guilty" "not guilty".

I really do not think this is true.

I'll look around later to see if this is true but I think its more about a mods personal choice in language.

Three kills in one night and Beast is pretending we don't all know it's multiball +vig.

3 kill=//=mutliball. Other than Boons claiming to know its MB....what makes you think its multiball? Or are you counting sk+ww as multiball?

@Boons-can you explain how your role confirms MB?

Well, the reason I voted Iz is 'cause I'm pretty sure there is scum in that hood. I remember not liking that Beast wagon at all yesterday and hating everyone on it. In my hood last night I had said that I wanted to kill Tier, IZ, and Scripton. Would scum have shot Tier to discredit/discourage me?

But maybe I'm wrong and scum are GM+Shiro.

[Nero Cain]

Yes, you pushed me because you thought me claiming BP wouldn't draw a NK, but I was already under the impression that I had drawn a NK, making it so I am a HUGE problem for scum now. As they can't just kill me off, and they're going to want to lynch me to get rid of me. Keep watch for who's trying to get rid of me.

so ok. I'm pretty much in agreement that if you are town (or even sk or another team) then you represent a threat and scum NEED to try to lynch you. Now I did argue that if we aren't hitting scum in the next few days we should prob get rid of you before LYLO but I also agrued that we shouldn't lynch you right off the bat. Now you voted me for that (since I really don't believe all that other bullshit you were saying.) and have since then be pushing me. So, if you believe that scum are the ones trying to lynch you can you explain why you are pushing the guy thats arguing to not lynch you right away while ignoring all those were trying to wagon you yesterday and today?

[Nero Cain]

My scum read on you is fading. I had major tunnel vision. Congrats.

well, I don't care now answer my question.

RE VI talk: I also feel like everyone is a VI besides me, Thor and the recently departed Egg.

Your hood is you, Iz, GM, shiro and who?

[Nero Cain]

Like I really don't wanna read any of this.

^

someone explain to me why I should doubt Beasts cop claim.

[Nero Cain]

At this point, multiball is super confirmed

no its not.

Werewolf/SK does NOT get a guilty for a cop.

p sure that this isn't true.

[Nero Cain]

So what do you actually think.

I think your reason for doubting the cop claim is bullshit. Yes, it makes some sense mafiawise to fakeclaim a guilty to get an important role lynched but I really don't see that as a reason to not believe he's a cop.

no its not.

Don't be a tool. We have three NK's with a player claiming to be a faction cop (or least getting faction-type results) against mafia and a werewolf flip. What's it going to take to super confirm multiball in your mind?

And how do you know that the other kill isn't from an sk? TBF, I haven't been paying much attention but I don't think anyone claimed a faction cop. Can you quote this for me?

[Nero Cain]

I guess to be fair, in a game with both a WW faction and a mafia faction a cop would be a "faction" cop and get guilties on only mafia but A.) its a leap in logic to assume that we have a mafia faction and B.) Ren did

NOT

claim to be a faction cop.

So to me it looks like Ren is lying here and we should lynch the fuck out of the Beast wagon when Ren flips scum.

[Nero Cain]

Ren, why did you think Boon was scum?

[Nero Cain]

no.

[Nero Cain]

I believe beast is WW, who is faking a claim on a guy he believes is mafia.

So if you think that they are both scum why do you care which scum gets lynched?

[Nero Cain]

Err that would be becuase you seem to claim to not understand what I said.

I understand perfectly.

First and foremost, to me if I knew the game was single ball, Id find it far easier to accept or at least decide that
scum making play that is at best a one for one trade is a bad idea.

However we flipped a WW, and there were reasonble odds on MB before that, and there is a lot of kills and one possible cross kill.
I dont know its MB but the odds on it being so have gone up a bit.
Also earlier today both Beast and Reinoe were both making claims that it was in fact MB, best is kinda retracting that by implication later in the day (which for me makes his claim dodgier, but reopens the possibility of SB)

Anyway, if beast is member of one faction and he believes (but can still be right or wrong) that Reinoe is a member of the other faction. then it is a makes some sense play to claim a cop check on reinoe.
Claiming some relatively inoffensive role such as even night town cop. may even mean that if Reinoe is scum and best flips reinoe, then town and reinoes scum team may actually believe the claim (hey look you are) and the scum team not shoot him. After all why bother until night 4 at least.

As there is perfectly good reason for scum beast to make the play, deciding whether it is scum beast fake claiming or town beast an actual confused (not faction cop)cop

^^
all that is essentially says that you doubt the cop claim 'cause he could do that as scum.

Get WHAT important role lynched?

Well he's a claimed cop and even if you no longer believe that he's a cop and he's some flavor of mafia then he'd still have a fairly important role.

Reinoe claimed to get mafia not mafia results.
Earlier Beats claimed to be a cop that got guilty or not guilty (which he at the time) claime meant his guilty check on reinoe indicated mafia
Its only kind of later he changed that.

they also claimed the same role. If we were to ASSUME that there is a mafia faction it would make sense to have multiple cops but we haven't even got a mafia flip yet and all we have to go on is Rens word. But like I said, having multiple factions and multiple cops makes sense so my two conclusions are that either someone is lying and there's another cop out there or this is single ball and Ren is caught scum who is trying to pretend like he's a faction cop in an unconfirmed multiball.

Ren did NOT claim to be a faction cop.

please explain what kind of cop this is him claiming to be then?

I did nvestigate boon.

I got a not-mafia result

. Cuz you know his claim was dicey and that's what a good cop would do.

pretty sure he claimed even night cop....

[Nero Cain]

Why is it a leap in logic to have a mafia faction when I got results of "mafia/not mafia"?

'cause I don't know if its true or not.

[Nero Cain]

I just love how everyone is ignoring the possibility of a sk to prove some point. Its prob one 4 man team and a sk.

IF

Ren was a faction cop there'd be another faction cop. Though I am NOT in favor of any other potential cop claim.

I hate all of the following:

Shiro saying that Beast backtracked and claimed GS.
Ren and Shiro ignoring the possibility of that 2nd kill from an sk.
Boon and Axle now saying that they are both scum.

f you knew I claimed Even-Night Cop why does it matter to you that I did not claim faction cop, which is not even a normal role?

So you are claiming to be a faction cop when you believe that a faction cop is a non normal mechanic?

I still don't buy Rens cop claim but part of me is almost like let them both live and lynch someone else scummy today like Axle or Shiro.

[Nero Cain]

If you are claiming that you get guilty an all anti-town then that makes it sound like we one team scum group and one sk and not MB as Ren is claiming.

[Nero Cain]

@Nero So you do not find Beast ambigius way weird ?

Also I did say He did't retract his claim and said he is gs BUT He did let it be implied that it might be possible when he said that he is going to ask the mod for clarification about his role cause he is not sure what he is finding people guilty of.

You are an experienced person right ? Tell me wouldn't a pm be specific about what your role does ?

Also I trust Rei over Beast. Rei claims to have a not mafia on Boon. We have a ww flip. Shocking I think we have mafia and ww instead of sk. Why would that be

no not really.

Yes a WW has flipped so we know there's a WW faction. We have a second unaccounted kill. That kill either came from a mafia or an sk. please explain how you you can tell the difference between a mafia kill and an sk kill. 'Cause to me that seems impossible and this whole "we obviously have a mafia team and not an sk" looks more like an agenda than anything based in sound reasoning.

[Nero Cain]

Mod-In the hypothetical situation were there is only a werewolf faction and no mafia faction-would a cop get a guilty on a werewolf?

[Nero Cain]

I do not think he was. Like scum is a catchall for anything that is anti-town. I and several players use that. A werewolf faction is STILL a mafia faction 'cause its a scum faction. I could see Beast being non specific and calling you mafia.

But ok, you guys lynch Beast and he flips town, who is scum and why?

[Nero Cain]

So why aren't you voting Beast while clearly calling him scum?

[Nero Cain]

if I voted Beast would you hammer, yes or no?

[Nero Cain]

that's not really what I was asking but maybe its not as important as I first thought it was.

[Nero Cain]

Axle, who is scum if Beast flips town?

[Nero Cain]

ok yeah. Ren is obv but there'd still be like 2-4 more scum. Any reason you are afraid to name names?

[Nero Cain]

Beast's new claim is so bad he's kind of selling me.

Are you saying that you don't think scum would change their claim like that?

Iz is good but I'd also be fine with bullets for GM.

[Nero Cain]

Ren, what do you think of GM *clearly* calling Beast scum and not hammering thus artificially prolonging the game?

[Nero Cain]

Axle is once again pushing a really dumb angle. If he's a town cop or if he's a a scum cop the chances of that not dying is p slim. Like that's just very basic mafia theory. Now scum sometimes will keep a pr alive so all the dumb townies are all like "why isn't that dead. it must be scum!" but the chances of that getting shot are p high.

[Nero Cain]

If the game is MB then a town cop is threat to both factions

which

wastes the shot they could be eliminating the other faction with by shooting the cop

?

bolded #1 if this is MB and Beast is a cop he is only a threat to the mafia faction. How is he a threat to the WWs?
bolded @2 you are arguing that this is MB and that Beast could be scum. You are also arguing that scum would shoot at each other. You are now arguing that a shot on him would be a waste. This is very much a disconnect.

So the chnaces if the game is SB are pretty high of getting shot eventually. My point was however, it is not a suicide play by beast.

I think the chances of scum shooting a threat in mb are just the same as in singleball. I think that in MB a scum team would NOT wabt to kill all of the other team 'cause like...then we'd be focused on just that team.

[Nero Cain]

You do realize how paranoid that makes me? But I'm getting more used to it.

[Nero Cain]

Ren, what do you think of GM *clearly* calling Beast scum and not hammering thus artificially prolonging the game?

The same thing I think after thor spent all that time interrogating Beast, calling his claim shit but saying he would vote me but didn't until beast's awful claim became even worse. The same thing I think about you calling thor scum all the live long day and even advocating his policy lynch but not hammering. It's weird and aggravating but that's all it is, weird and aggravating. Plus she did this in the first game I played on mafia scum when we were in lylo only she did it for nearly 12 days instead of what...24 hrs?

I called for a day extension which also artificially prolonged the game.

So I was "scummy" for this but somehow Thor and GM aren't. I see selective scumhunting.

I also think there's a HUGE difference in what I did and what GM is doing.

[Nero Cain]

Were you pissed at the players that unvoted Thor?

[Nero Cain]

Seems like a case of displaced anger.

[Nero Cain]

and finally I really would prefer to lynch another WW over a maf today

why?

[Nero Cain]

So in my hood last night both me and TSO agreed that Axxle needs death. I am not sure if this means TSO is scum or if this is a sign of the apocalypse but I'm slightly leaning the later.

Though it was a lil' odd that he was arguing that me being in the hood made me scum despite arguing the former yesterday but *shrugz*

vote:Axxle

[Nero Cain]

nope

[Nero Cain]

@Nero want to try voting for someone who is even in the game? (Axxle )
and then doing it because you think they are scum for reasons instead of the apocalypse?

or you could just wipe my vote off like the scumbag you are.

So ok, Ren was fake claiming town cop. What he was saying was that he detected mafia only. You believed this claim. You also then claim that cop is a threat to both factions. You can't believe Rens claim AND believe Beasts.

[Nero Cain]

We kind of talked about the opposite in my neighborhood. I don't think Axxle is scum at all.

Ok. Why don'y you guys think he's scum? Who said what?

You do know the scum have already flipped in my hood right?

[Nero Cain]

I think the nk's also point to boons being a sk.

2 scum teams and an sk seems rather unlikely to me.

[Nero Cain]

that's 3 possible nightkills a night. Even though this is a large its not THAT large.

[Nero Cain]

Well we've had 3 nks last night so

you mean night 2? I don't think one extra kill on one night proves the existence of an sk.

[Nero Cain]

Is it non normal to have an x shot sk or something

Modifiers which are explicitly Normal include:
Even/Odd Night, Non-Consecutive Night,

X-Shot

, Bulletproof, Neighbor, Compulsive, Macho, Weak, Backup (with or without primary role present)

[Nero Cain]

I'll have more on Monday but just quickly

An argument doesn't always mean a back and forth bitch fest. I also find it in very poor cognitive function that Axle would think I'd lie about what happened in our hood we all TSO would had to do is "yea we never argued like he said" Just to watch Axle squirm I'd love to hear what he thinks was my goal there.

Axle can also scream as much as he wants about me not understanding Beasts role but that doesn't make it so.

Flubber is also scum.

[Nero Cain]

I feel Flubber's paranoia towards me without pushing me is scummy.

This was my exact same reasoning for calling Flub scum earlier but to add to it There IS a min-bandwagon (ok its one vote) so him not joining that because?

My initial reaction is that if we don't lynch Axle today we should lynch that.

I guess Josh B could be scum, like I've played with him a few times and town him seems far more active and engaged.

[Nero Cain]

He thinks you may be scum

to be blunt, I'm playing with 9 crummy players and picking out which 4 are scum seems like a crapshot. When I get more time I can prob narrow things down but I do have a question: you seem to think contradictions are so scummy. Why then are you not jumping on TSO?

[Nero Cain]

I feel Flubber's paranoia towards me without pushing me is scummy.

This was my exact same reasoning for calling Flub scum earlier but to add to it There IS a min-bandwagon (ok its one vote) so him not joining that because?

follow up: I also very much dislike his shadowing of IZ. I don't think that GM had any result on Thor. They aren't on the same team but its very likely that both are scum.

[Nero Cain]

So why are't you joining the Boons wagon?

[Nero Cain]

Btw what's your town read on thor consist of?

he doesn't have a gun.

[Nero Cain]

Boons's "case" on me is ridiculously bad and looks a ton more like OMGUS than him actually thinking I'm scum and if he legit thinks I'm scum with those "reasons" then holy shit I was right to blacklist him.

I just get derpy when I have a lack of reads.

I also have a huge issue with this but ongoing games. I'm debating weather or not I should yell at him in the end game (if he's town.)

Both his claim and Ren "clearing" him are WIFOM. After SNF I'll do some rereading and let ya'll know who is scum so you can sheep me to victory but my inital thoughts are

mafia: Axle, Flubber

werewolf: Iz, Shiro

[Nero Cain]

UNVOTE:

Why did your vote not move to Boons?

[Nero Cain]

He thinks you may be scum

to be blunt, I'm playing with 9 crummy players and picking out which 4 are scum seems like a crapshot. When I get more time I can prob narrow things down but I do have a question: you seem to think contradictions are so scummy. Why then are you not jumping on TSO?

I can lynch TSO, I have problem though in that I really want anyone ELSE that wants to vote TSO to pony up good reason they would not even pressure vote him D1 to make him play but now want him lynched. So if you want to vote TSO today but not D1.

So if you want to vote TSO,
Please start explaining why you have changed your mind.

You still have not answered my questions.... and that not a contradiction thats dodging

And I have a problem with anyone that's unable to read. I don't have a strong scum read or town read on TSO. If you think my 5341 was me claiming to have a scumread on (nor does it have anything to do with voting you over the apocalypse) him then either you are dumb or scum--take your pick. I'll admit that I'm a tad bit suspicious of him but I'm pretty suspicious of everyone that's not dead flipped town. I feel like I walked into an epic mafia game. I'll show you my reasons if you show me yours. I also think its absurd that you feel that I should have vote TSO on d1.

I'll get to your question eventually but don't you think its rather hypocritical to blast me for not answering you but you don't answer mine?

[Nero Cain]

ok lets do this.

(11)

Please show where i believed his claim. (note you will find me consider the what ifs on it being true.)

I have no intention of going to look through your iso but I'm positive that you did say that. But I don't need to quote that 'CAUSE YOU WERE VOTING HIM ALL DAY LONG. If you believed his claim (as you now say) why would you be voting a TOWN COP? Even if you only believed the cop part of his claim we still run into issues. First of all, by suggesting the are both scum you are giving yourself a TON of leway 'cause it distances yourself from Ren mafia flip and gives yourself an opening to lynch Beast. Its also slightly backtracking 'cause you OBVIOUSLY did not think he was a town cop but by saying you believed the cop part you can

sorta

claim that you believed his claim--like you are doing now.

While I know the wiki isn't a bible and it may very well be in need of an update it DOES state that a cop in MB is a faction cop. This is also the exact thing Ren claimed. If you thought he was a cop in MB-he'd only get guilty's on mafia. Its strange to me that you BELIEVED Ren's claim over Beasts yet you are failing to understand this.

Beasts claim and Rens claim were not co-existent. It was obvious that one of them were lying. I chose to believe Beast over Ren for both meta reasons and I also didn't think this was MB.

[Nero Cain]

My theory coming into today was that scum KNEW it was multiball and I know that atleast you and Shiro were fairly confident that this was mutiball...I guess thinking about it a little TSO mocking me over not thinking this was multiball could be him knowing that it was multiball.

let compare notes on him-what are your reasons?

[Nero Cain]

only if you lynch yourself the next day.

[Nero Cain]

The thing is bro is that you are now saying that you didn't believe Ren's claim. Well why? You believed it was MB...Ren was claiming a cop role that was more consistent with what a cop in MB is according to the wiki. I think its VERY likely that you are Rens buddy and you knew you was fakeclaiming. I wouldn't be surprised if you legit think I am a WW but you are mafia and I'm town. Also there is absolutly no town motivation in wanting to kill Beast (whom you suspected as WW) over mafia. No town gives a shit which faction flips.

[Nero Cain]

I hate Nero's random u-turn on me with the guy who he's scumreading but, meh, it's this game.

eh, its not really any different than you suspecting suddenly.

[Nero Cain]

Just based on votes alone.

Scripten was voting for Cho, Thor and Josh B and Ren's slot has voted for TSO, Cho, and Thor. Yes I realize that scum can vote for each other but at the same time it makes me think they are less likely to vote someone on thier team.

This makes me think thor is town. And Shiro (but holy fuck he's saying some super scummy shit.)

WW-Slandaar,AxleGreaser,Boonskiies,flubbernugget,Izariael,T S O
Mafia-Slandaar,AxleGreaser,Boonskiies,flubbernugget,Izariael

I'm tempted to not want a TSO lynch since I think he's 50% less likely to be scum wich gives us a pool of Slan, Axle, Boon, Flub and IZ. Am a little less sure on Slan and Boon so right now I'm thinking we should deff lynch in Axle, Iz, Flubber.

[Nero Cain]

^
Josh SHOULD be in the potential mafia group but he gets the same treatment as TSO today and prob Mafia Axle was voting him. TSO should also be in the potential mafia group.

[Nero Cain]

(4) and yeah good guess I do legit think you are a WW. and that is how you knew to WK so hard for beast even though you paying so little attention you had forgotten how he claimed his role worke

You can yell till your throat is dry but is still doesn't make any sense.

[Nero Cain]

oh FFS

Josh SHOULD be in the potential mafia group but he gets the same treatment as TSO today and prob Mafia Axle was voting him.

TSO should also be in the potential mafia group.

Who do you think are the other three scum and why, Axle?

[Nero Cain]

Who do you think are the other three scum and why, Axle?

[Nero Cain]

Who do you think are the other three scum and why, Axle?

[Nero Cain]

backup your claims about the one you are voting

I think you are doing a perfectly fine job of explaining why you are scum.

[Nero Cain]

Who do you think are the other three scum and why, Axle?

[Nero Cain]

Scum;
Boon
Iz
Flubber
Josh

Maybe Shiro as an outside chance but lynching any of the first 4 today is going to be a good lynch.

Why do you think Axle is town? I think he's pretty likely to be mafia b/c he knew that Ren was fakeclaiming while trying to get Beast lynched when logic said only one could be telling the truth and he distanced his way from Rens scum flip by suggesting that BOTH of them are scum. He's selectively scumhunting and trying to lych wolves over mafia. He's being tentative as fuck by not answering my question of who else he thinks is scum.

But all of me you and Thor agree on IZ so I'd be down for that. I KIND of think Boons is town and part of me thinks I shouldn't say why until we mass claim..or do we want to mass claim today instead of tomorrow?

vote:IZ

to me Thor and Slandaar

[Nero Cain]

I am not liking talking to Nero, because I'm scum and I need allies to help win. If I start calling folks scum then I alienate potential allies. Why would I do that as scum?

He'd also be responsible for his reads and he doesn't want to be held responsible for anything.

Also notice the hypocrisy here:

Yells and screams that my not answering him is scummy.

Agreed with me previously that limited scumhunting is scummy.

And yet he's doing both. Why would he, as town, do these things? He wouldn't and therefore knows that he is scum.

I first asked yesterday about who is scum if Beast flips town. His response was that Ren is scum, which is both extremely obvious and slightly dodging my question.

yeah if i am wrong about beast, I expect significant amounts of my current reads to change

And yet he's not showing his work. Why would he do this as town?

No if this game is MB, and beast is WW, and he claims a red check on guy he thinks is mafia. Then when the mafia flips he looks by standard play (in SB) to be conf town. If he gets away with that and no one notices then after a maf!Reinoe lynch, then town will likely think he(beast) is town. Maf will (may) also think he(beast) is a real town cop who wont have another check until night 4. In that situation Maf who will be shooting for WW somewhat (at 2v2) may purposefully shoot around Beast because they assume he is cop and not the real threat that WW are.

I'm assuming that this is his "reasoning" for wanting to kill Beast over Ren but I think that's a bunch of bullshit.

He also said:

I think town wincon is best aided by lynching beast the WW first

which is really vague. But I assume that if I ask why he'll point me to 5381.

[Nero Cain]

Who do you think are the other three scum and why, Axle?

[Nero Cain]

Who do you think are the other three scum and why, Axle?

[Nero Cain]

So you can't back your read up.

VOTE: boons

Says the guy who is dodging explaining why he was voting me...what the hell is this?

TBF, he did. He was sheeping/shadowing IZ's "reasoning" that GM had night action information that you were scum. Not that that's anymore townie than not explaining but ya know, lets be factually correct here.

[Nero Cain]

fair nuff

[Nero Cain]

Well they are prob both scum so we'll be killing both. My IZ read is just mostly gut and POE though. If you rather kill Flubber today then fine. Any of Axle, IZ, Flub are my preferred lynches.

[Nero Cain]

I mean I know there is a chance the vigilante is even night or some shit but how high is the chance that someone shot boon n1 and n3 so they can kill him tommorow?

I think the chances that scum waste three shots on a player are fairly slim.

Talk to me about Iz. What were you townreading her form what made you doubt your town read?

[Nero Cain]

So flub and Iz are both double voters and two of Thor, Shiro and Slan are voteless.

My apologies; I am extremely tired, but I wanted to get a VC up. It should be accurate now; thank you for pointing out the errors.

[Nero Cain]

Random observation - Iz and Script don't look like buddies to me.
Discuss.

You can't use that 'cause Axle is against VCA.

I mean how can you guys actually think Axle is not mafia after his rubbish of a "reason" for not wanting to lynch Ren?

[Nero Cain]

Random observation - Iz and Script don't look like buddies to me.
Discuss.

You can't use that 'cause Axle is

against VCA.

I mean how can you guys actually think Axle is not mafia after his rubbish of a "reason" for not wanting to lynch Ren?

(truck out the baseless junk)

Bullshit. Stop making stuff up. (well actually as I think you are scum go right ahead?)

oh so we are back to the "I never said that unless you quote me" thing. Wich isn't town either.

Then when the mafia flips he looks by standard play (in SB) to be conf town. If he gets away with that and no one notices then after a maf!Reinoe lynch, then town will likely think he(beast) is town. Maf will (may) also think he(beast) is a real town cop who wont have another check until night 4. In that situation Maf who will be shooting for WW somewhat (at 2v2) may purposefully shoot around Beast because they assume he is cop and not the real threat that WW are.

Here you are pushing the idea that we should lynch Beast 'cause if Beast was right on Ren then town would think he's town and scum might think he's town and might not kill him. Yeah this is totes junk bro.

As for your "I WAS PUSHING ON REN SO I'M TOTES NOT SCUM!" I was pushing on Scripten yet you still think I'm WW. Why the diffrence?

[Nero Cain]

There was a period of time I was against lynching Reinoe also - being wrong is part of being town. What about the reason specifically says scum intent to you? Also, does this mean you're clearing him of being Wolf/Mafia whichever Reinoe wasn't?

You mean other than the fact that he's blatantly trying to lynch one faction over the other? And his reason for doing so is quite silly. He's worried that Beast will be seen as town and not shot at night. That looks like a scum whine to me. I think the only argument you could make is that he wouldn't do something so obviously scummy. Is that what you think? What do you think is the town motivation here?

[Nero Cain]

You mean other than the fact that he's blatantly trying to lynch one faction over the other? And his reason for doing so is quite silly.

He's worried that Beast will be seen as town and not shot at night.

bullshit
read the thread.

that was not just the reason... (that was an explanation of why it was a plausible scum play)
hence it was involved, but not just the reason.

you seem to have left out, the primary reason, which was making sure the scum teams had high motivation to shoot at one another. (at 3:1 that would have been so)
are you not reading or incapable, or purposefully mis characterizing what I said.

okay?

not that "lets lynch a werewolf so they have more motivation to shoot at mafia!" makes a ton of sense either...

I also posted this earlier today.

No if this game is MB, and beast is WW, and he claims a red check on guy he thinks is mafia. Then when the mafia flips he looks by standard play (in SB) to be conf town. If he gets away with that and no one notices then after a maf!Reinoe lynch, then town will likely think he(beast) is town. Maf will (may) also think he(beast) is a real town cop who wont have another check until night 4. In that situation Maf who will be shooting for WW somewhat (at 2v2) may purposefully shoot around Beast because they assume he is cop and not the real threat that WW are.

I'm assuming that this is his "reasoning" for wanting to kill Beast over Ren but I think that's a bunch of bullshit.

He also said:

I think town wincon is best aided by lynching beast the WW first

which is really vague. But I assume that if I ask why he'll point me to 5381.

If I'm misrepping your reasoning for wanting to lynch the wolves why did you not take offense then?

Can you show me your post that talks about you wanting to kill Beast so the wolves have more motivation to shoot mafia?

If 5381 is you explaining plausible scum play...why is it so overjustified? I mean we're all going to understand the concept of scum fakeclaiming a guilty to get a role lynched so why did you feel the need to explain it? Honestly, it comes off more like you whining about Beast living past that day. The last line is especially interesting: (according to your theory that Beast was WW amd mafia might think he's a cop) he'd still be a threat to so they wouldn't kill a guy that can investigate 'cause.....

but the bottom line is, regardless of your "justification" you are arguing to lynch one faction over the other and I really don't think that has ANY town motivation.

[Nero Cain]

I wasn't aware that he was blatantly trying to lynch one faction over the other - which faction is he focused on?

He wants to lynch wolves.

[Nero Cain]

you should prob replace IZ

[Nero Cain]

*yawn*

Axle still scum. Is mafia that got caught defending Ren. Axle legit hunting werewolves=//=town.

[Nero Cain]

I wish to point out, you are explicitly claiming to know the reasons I do things are bad/shit/whatever


yet here you explicitly state you dont know where I did in fact explain that.

Me not agreeing with you and thinking that something is not town motivated=//=me knowing you said that. I didn't see that and/or forgot.

Nero is there a reason you keep screaming that axle is town but like the iz wagon more?

Since when do I have a town read on Axle?

So you agree with me, then, that he is fairly clearly not a Werewolf - so you really wish to lynch someone who is 50% cleared at this stage?

Yes and no. I'm fairly confident that he's mafia and I think his "oh well Ren is mafia....but lets lynch Beast" would be perfectly acceptable to way to treat his buddy and we'd still have to lynch him-mafia eventually. If we flip him today then great but I'm fully willing to compromise on IZ or Flubber.

Speaking of Flubber...I'd lynch him over Pine.

The other thing that makes me think Axle mafia is

yeah if i am wrong about beast, I expect significant amounts of my current reads to change.

yet NOTHING has changed for him. He is still scumreading me (but as a wolf) and two lurksacks. And one of those two lurksacks were being voted by mafia so it makes me think TSO is less likely to be mafia. So to me it has an air of not mafia hunting.

Why do you think Axle is not mafia?

[Nero Cain]

You claimed I was against VCA which I said was made up bullshit which is why i crossed it out

It was more mocking you than anything but you DID chide me over using VCA today. If you aren't against VCA why did you feel the need to discredit my use of VCA?

I assume your response will be something along the lines of "Well u said that

based on VCA alone these guys are scum.

You aren't using your reads!"

Well, this also ignores the fact that I was previously scumreading Iz, Flubber and Shiro. (Though VCA kinda makes me doubt Shiro.) I mean you think I'm so scummy for "not reading" your posts yet you aren't reading my posts. I see hypocritical scum!

[Nero Cain]

@SHiro

I think the chances that scum waste three shots on a player are fairly slim.

given the alternative is shoot three guys each with a vote, or take the risk that when leaving boon alive until endgame and wondering if this will happen

We're getting to the point where I believe I'm going to actually start becoming a strong town player in this game.

I actually start to become a pretty strong town player mid-game.

I also find this hilariously bad. I mean I am highly doubtful that scum would go "oh Boon said he's going to become a good player, we better kill that ASAP!" looks like some whiteknighting to me.

best idea is just play mafia and try to read the guys alignment the old fashioned way.

I was recently in a game where scum said something similar to this. I fully expect the "Well he isn't Toog and Toog saying this (or something similar) doesn't make Axle scum!" While that is true I think its scum motivated in that its ignoring other disciplines of finding scum in favor of "reads".

[Nero Cain]

You have studiously, avoided analysisng the actual thread,

What am I avoiding analyzing? How do you think we should be looking for scum?

Can you remind me why you unvoted Beast.

Why did you not vote Ren when you unvoted Beast?

[Nero Cain]

So Beast flips town and that doesn't make you feel any differently about anyone? Totes bullshit

[Nero Cain]

If you aren't against VCA why did you feel the need to discredit my use of VCA?

What am I avoiding analyzing? How do you think we should be looking for scum?

[Nero Cain]

but also saying "As Beast didnt flip scum, then all the pre flip associative stuff I thought I was seeing was not there." Is actually proving my point that nothing changed for you.

Can you remind me why you unvoted Beast.

Why did you not vote Ren when you unvoted Beast?

[Nero Cain]

The stuff I was getting from thinking I had caught beast as WW was re evaluated.

So you started to doubt your scumread on Beast?

I suggest you define what on earth nothing means for you as the above is explicitly stating what did change. and you define something the thing that changed as nothing. WTF.

Well from what I understand you were scumreading all of me, TSO, and Josh B. Then Beast claims a guilty on Ren and Ren CC's and then you started scumreading them both. Beast flips town and this apparently changes nothing for you as your reads are still exactly the same as before. Why do you think Beast flipping town doesn't point to anyone? Or maybe you are...I mean you indicated that you think me buying Beasts claim means I knew he was town and you are scumreading TSO but all this seems "convenient". Like your reads are p static (and STALE!)

Can you remind me why you unvoted Beast.

Why did you not vote Ren when you unvoted Beast?

Well I would just direct you the thread but you already both claimed and demonstrated you dont read it or claim not to remember it...
and in truth, even though it is right there where i unvoted him) you need to read little between the lines

(2)and finally I really would prefer to lynch another WW over a maf today.

(1)however it is time

UNVOTE: Beast

Note I really might vote him again, (1)but I reckon I have as much good info as i can reasonably expect to get. Time to re-evaluate the day from scratch.

(1) yes shock horror on day when the claimed to be town cop

had claimed really early for no particularly good reason

, I had tried to milk the day for other associative tells and make an actual contested wagon out of it.

I think claiming a guilty is a p good reason to claim. Why do you not think so?

(2) and look here is me consistently indicating a desire to lynch the short stacked faction yet again...

ok....but that's like not even a reason to unvote?

I mean maybe I could buy you wanting to do some rereading before the day ended but you clearly state below that you were ok with the day ending. Don't the two conflict?

and so yes this "it is time" gave the green light to any towny standing around with the hands in their pockets giving me space to play,

that the day could end the day

.

Also please start explaining how any of this shit you want to discuss but never even bother looking in my filter for is alignment indicative at all?

I'm an eternal optimist. Like I really don't think you are town and I'm hoping that our arguments will help convince Thor and whomever else doubts you are scum that you are scum.

[Nero Cain]

yeah if i am wrong about

beast, I expect significant amounts of my current reads to change.

WRONG

I expect significant amounts of my current reads to change

NOT A SINGLE READ HAS CHANGED!!!

[Nero Cain]

So you started to doubt your scumread on Beast

?

as that is not what the words say... not sure why you are claiming it is.

I know that you are ESL but that's a question mark which means its a question. You can pay me later for the English lesson.

But to be honest I DID take it as you maybe doubting your scumread on him 'cause I don't see why you'd unvote someone you clearly thought was scum. Your explanation for that is you wanted to do some rereading and milk the day which I can maybe understand but you were clearly ok with the day ending wich I think conflicts with you wanting more time to read. What exactly were you evaluating?

Also please start explaining how any of this shit you want to discuss but never even bother looking in my filter for is alignment indicative at all?

I'm an eternal optimist. Like I really don't think you are town and I'm hoping that our arguments will help convince Thor and whomever else doubts you are scum that you are scum.

Ah
so while you are not actually arguing or stating that I am scum or the th9ings you mention are alignment indicative,
you are just eternally optimistic, that just the argument itself will help convince them.
AKA a hail mary?

If you have nothing else then that is playing the game i suppose.

yes, I'm clearly not calling you scum.

I thnk 'm playing the game just fine but also poking holes in your play and watching you selectively respond kinda makes me laugh but yes, it is my hope that all these dumbos start seeing your play as scummy as I do.

[Nero Cain]

<----my face after learning that DGB replaced into a game with hoods after making a big fuss about games with hoods.

[Nero Cain]

KILL ME NOW

vote:dgb

[Nero Cain]

I unvoted Beast so as to indicate to town, unequivocally, I was cool with a Reinoe lynch even though I preferred a Beast one.. for the reasons stated.

yeah I don't think unvoting your preferred lynch makes any sense. Now I could maybe buy the whole "well I wanted time to reread stuff" but then you were pretty clearly okay with ending the day.

Again are you at any point going to explain how any of your question is alignment indicative... or are you just hoping we dont lynch Pine today?

I think my intent is clear....I'm pointing out the your play isn't town motivated. Regardless of your "justification" I don't particularly believe that you wanting to lynch wolves over mafia is town motivated. I don't think you unvoting Beast to "let town know I was cool with a Ren" lynch makes

much

any kind of sense. I'll be blunt here: I think you were afraid to be on the Beast wagon if he flipped. Your reads remaining static after his flip seems odd to me. Both my questions about VCA and "what am I not analyzing?" were to see if you could back that up.

You ARE correct that I'd prefer not Pine today since I think he's atleast 50% town. Iz/DGB or Flub are the way to go. (Since we aparently aren't lynching you.)

What is your opinion on the Pine Lynch?
My previous cases on Pine?

meh and meh

[Nero Cain]

Fluber's thoughts seem honest.

Why did you specifically read Flubber?

[Nero Cain]

jk

[Nero Cain]

nice IIOA

[Nero Cain]

OK so pretty much Boonskies is guaranteed town.

Why?

Question:
Could Thor be a RED ROLEBLOCKER rather than a Jailkeeper?

yes but you really think Ren was faking being mad at Thor not being lynched?

nice IIOA

Attempt to discredit solid analysis before it's finished. Solid scum move

idk, I kinda think posting a list of wagons is IIOA. Yea she gets around to analyzing things but 5654 contains nothing but IIOA but if you think "discrediting solid analysis" is scummy what do you think of Axle discrediting my VCA?

[Nero Cain]

Axle, do you want to go first or do you want me to go first in tomorrows massclaim?

[Nero Cain]

yes 'cause if scum shoot me then any town worth their grain in salt will sheep me. And if I don't die then I'll lead this town to victory.

Now stop avoiding my question.

[Nero Cain]

In fact, I wouldn't mind if you shot me at all Axle.

[Nero Cain]

Its not a bullshit question 'cause a massclaim tomorrow makes sense. I mean we could do it today but I thought it was a better idea to not give scum the rest of the setup today...or maybe it would be better today and to catch the scum offguard. What do you think?

I planned on suggesting that you go first wich I assume you'll be all like "no" so I'm letting you choose wich one of us goes first and then the other goes second.

[Nero Cain]

Asking you your stance on massclaim is rolefishing?

[Nero Cain]

oh nm, you are calling my asking "which one of us goes first" rolefishing and that's like lol

[Nero Cain]

but you are also saying IF like you don't think a massclaim would be useful, why do you think this?

[Nero Cain]

no my stance is [*you*] in this situation are currently role fishing.
and no I have no intention of discussing it or why.

asking you to decide which one of us will end up going first in massclaim isn't fishing...like that doesn't make sense. I mean perhaps someone will be stupid enough to buy into your buzzword hunting but that's all it is--you flinging around a buzzword without any actual ground in reality.

This "I'm not going to talk about massclaim until tomorrow!" reeks of A.) You suggesting that you'll still be alive (which hey you called me on--be me hypocritical huh?) and B.) you needing your buddy to help you. I would ask you what the danger is in discussing massclaim but you'll likely say "I'm not going to talk about that until tomorrow,"

[Nero Cain]

nope its good enough. (what was worrying me stopped a bit)
VOTE: Pine L-2

What was worrying you about the Pine wagon?

[Nero Cain]

[2]Izariael: Slandaar, Boonskiies
[1]DrippingGoofball: Nero Cain

Iz wagon suxs, DGB is much scummier.

[Nero Cain]

Greaser is town leave him alone.

If by town you mean not wolf then I might buy that but what makes him not mafia?

[Nero Cain]

For me, nothing much has changed much since

Scripten was voting for Cho, Thor and Josh B and Ren's slot has voted for TSO, Cho, and Thor. Yes I realize that scum can vote for each other but at the same time it makes me think they are less likely to vote someone on thier team.

This makes me think thor is town. And Shiro (but holy fuck he's saying some super scummy shit.)

WW-Slandaar,AxleGreaser,Boonskiies,flubbernugget,DGB,T S O
Mafia-Slandaar,AxleGreaser,Boonskiies,flubbernugget,DGB, Pine

I don't have ANY town reads and even the few that I think are less likely to be scum are playing so poorly that I actully forgot that I was in a non-newbie game.

Maybe its conf bias but I really do not read Axle as town and specifically as mafia.

This makes me doubt Pine as mafia.

I also don't think TSO is mafia but the idea of two wolves in my hood, while possible seems somewhat unlikely to me.

I kinda doubt Iz/DGB as wolf.

Boons

could

be scum but even if he is then there will still be 3 others so he's not for today me thinks.

WW-flubbernugget, Slandaar,T S O, Boonskiies
Mafia-AxleGreaser,DGB, Boonskiies

^
So those are my guesses at scum with TSO and Boon being less likely but possible.

I don't really care who we lynch out of Axle, Flubber and DGB but everyone is scumreading Flubber and he's scum but unlike Axle I don't have a "preference" on which faction we lynch.

vote:Flubber

[Nero Cain]

thats what I unvoted to reconsider

So...you unvoted someone you thought was scum to consider voting me and then you "worried less"? Even if I was scum, why would me scum make you doubt your scum read on Pine? What made you stop worrying a bit.

[Nero Cain]

TBH though, Pine not participating at all is irksome. He's still not my preferred lynch but wouldn't shed any tears.

[Nero Cain]

Never said I doubted my scum read on Pine

Well I honestly don't see a ( valid) reason to unvote a scumread.

Nero has claimed that thor has no gun.

I'm actually not a GS but I do think Thor is prob not scum. I mean maybe one of Ren/Scrip was bussing him but meh...

[Nero Cain]

That I said Thor didn't have a gun

[Nero Cain]

Though it would be funny, also possibility to draw some scum actions.

[Nero Cain]

This whole situation reminds me of scumMhork rage voting my for not being a vig.

[Nero Cain]

This whole situation reminds me of scumMhork rage voting me for not being a vig in Inuhysa.

[Nero Cain]

ok you win this round. I had forgotten that it was actually Neil and not Mhork that was the one pushing me for "lying about my claim"

[Nero Cain]

So why exactly are you voting me?

[Nero Cain]

[4]Pine: Thor665, Shiro, DrippingGoofball, AxleGreaser
[2]Flubbernugget: Nero Cain, T S O
[2]DrippingGoofball: Slandaar, Boonskiies
[1]Nero Cain: Flubbernugget

[1] Not Voting: Pine

Fixed

FIXED AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

[Nero Cain]

Earlier you claimed

reminded

and

rage voting

This whole situation

reminds

me of scumMhork

rage voting

me for not being a vig in Inuhysa.

ok you win this round. I had forgotten that it was actually Neil and not Mhork that was the one pushing me for "lying about my claim"

Yes pushing you about lying is actually what they both did.
So no I dont see the

reminding

part at all. (you appear to have imagined that part... twice now)
Except i can see you would like us to be aware of your self aware meta that you have done that as town.

So yes given the game state, PLing you today is not really on. The awful nature of it alone is not necessarily scummy (for you)
That you did it this time with an information role then let players act on the disinformation sis new level of WTF?

However the context of you and Neil, is

also

, not people rage voting you.

Spoiler: context from that game

In the game where Nero claims to remember someone (first Mhork then Neil) rage voting him like this game...
What actually happened was.

so if my kill tonight does not go through I'll go shouting TARGET IS NARAKU.

scum have a roleblocker, and there are many kinds of kill-prevention things this game.

...all this may be wrong, though

By no means am I trying to tell you how to go about your role... but I will say, it might have been better if you kept what you received a little to yourself until later on in the day when we were closing in on the lynch.

But now that you've shown your cards, I imagine your best play would be to tell us who you're targeting right when someone gets lynched. That way we have an idea if your kill doesn't go through, and you get targeted for whatever reason and you're not protected, that we might be able to figure out who Naraku is.

With that said:

Nero, what's up? What'd you do last night? What happened?

Curious...

Nero, what's up? What'd you do last night? What happened?

your team blocked me.

Wow just caught scum red handed.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nero Cain

He's not a vig, he didn't get blocked, he doesn't have a shot... he's a liar. A lying scum that now officially needs to die.

So your point is what?

Becacuse your inability to vote axle after all the bitching you've done with him is fucking atrocious and your vote on me is also atrocious.

So I'm the only one with a scumread on Axle. How exactly does it help town by leaving my sole vote on Axle? It doesn't. Why would I not consolidate my vote on someone else that I think is scum? Your attempt to discredit my vote on you is fucking stupid.

And again, if I unvote right after you make a post implying you cleared someone and actually didn't, a town mindset would have wanted an answer.

So you bought into the fact that you thought I was a GS and you unvoted Thor thinking he was clear but I should have asked you? holy fuck man. No way you are town and that dense.

For why I'm voting you. Its mostly POE and gut. I remember hating your song and dance about me and muffin having different reads on Boons and other than that I can't remember anything you've done (which is a red flag in itself!) But to me POE really makes me think TSO, Thor, Shiro and Pine are town. I know I'm town so I'm left with you, Axle, DGB, Slan and Boon. I'm a little less sure on Boon (and reasoning will be given later) and Slan. So lynching from you three makes sense and I can't for the life of me get Axle lynched (even though he's blatant mafia) So you and DGB are my options today.

[Nero Cain]

so my best guess as too the scum would be Flubber, Axle, DGB, and one of Slan/Boon but I'm leaning Slan for ~reasons.

[Nero Cain]

where you made bad fake claim

I got scum to waste a night action on me. mission accomplished.

It did not happen naturally in that your were not reminded of similar situation as it was quite different.

no, not really. Neil was rage voting me. Why do you think Flubber is voting me right now?

[Nero Cain]

And again, if I unvote right after you make a post implying you cleared someone and actually didn't, a town mindset would have wanted an answer.

So you bought into the fact that you thought I was a GS and you unvoted Thor thinking he was clear but I should have asked you? holy fuck man. No way you are town and that dense.

It's not being dense. Considering how you "caught" me as scum d2 and are still pushing me from that without having the balls to actually admit it shows you have no right to call anyone dense.

oh look. A reply that makes no sense to what is being talked about. Why would I ask you about why you are unvoting Thor?

For why I'm voting you. Its mostly POE and gut. I remember hating your song and dance about me and muffin having different reads on Boons and other than that I can't remember anything you've done (which is a red flag in itself!) But to me POE really makes me think TSO, Thor, Shiro and Pine are town. I know I'm town so I'm left with you, Axle, DGB, Slan and Boon. I'm a little less sure on Boon (and reasoning will be given later) and Slan. So lynching from you three makes sense and I can't for the life of me get Axle lynched (even though he's blatant mafia) So you and DGB are my options today.

So when did you change from having no town reads to having 4? Oh wait it really doesn't matter because you're making no fucking sense. How do you have town reads from poe that lead to poe scum reads, and somehow manage to fill up the roster with reads that way?

This also in no way explains why you don't have the resources to push the wagon you say you want.

Yep I'm dense here

Yea, I'm not going to reply to whatever bullshit you make up to "respond" to this but I was pushing (read voting) Axle but I'm not convincing anyone. Kinda a bummer but I can lynch other scum.

I still don't have any town reads its just that VCA makes me think some players were less likely to have a yellow or red pm and this is not the first time I've brought this up so why fuss about it now and not back when I first started bringing it up? You are trying to find something which to discredit me and squirm out of your lynch.

[Nero Cain]

It did not happen naturally in that your were not reminded of similar situation as it was quite different.

no, not really. Neil was rage voting me. Why do you think Flubber is voting me right now?

No not really, That is not rage voting.
There is not even any faux rage, from neil.
and thus we have why I quote Neil in this previous post.
There was no rage voting by (

Mork

no you mean) Neil to remind you of this game. That bit is untrue.
I conclude you were not reminded of that game but just wanted to mention it hence made up a similarity where there was none.

[/quote]
Neil was rage voting me. Just 'cause he claim he wasn't doesn't make it so. But I commend you for trying to find something that sticks. If Slan/Boon doesn't kill you tonight then I'm going to lynch your mafia butt.

[Nero Cain]

daykill:TSO

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Flubbernugget

bicw of you to join the scum wagon after the hammer...

[Nero Cain]

*nice

[Nero Cain]

Will Ren get banned for posting while he's dead. PLACE YOUR BETS NOW!

[Nero Cain]

massclaim first. I'll even go first. Town Neighbor

[Nero Cain]

shiro was a shit kill but yeah prob Boon/Pine and one of Slandaar/TSO

[Nero Cain]

perhaps you were useful in your scum pt?

[Nero Cain]

Boonskiies
Pine
T S O
Thor665

I've defended all the players at one point or another and there's scum in here somewhere and I feel bad for it.

[Nero Cain]

So lets take a look at VCA sans Axle mafia biasness.

Scripten was voting for Cho, Thor and Josh B and Ren's slot has voted for TSO, Cho, and Thor. Flubber has voted Thor and Boon.

prob not mafia-Thor, TSO, Boon
prob not wolf-thor, pine


This makes me think that one of Slandaar/Pine is the last mafia. My guess is Pine.

Leaving Slan, TSO, Boon as containing the last two wolves.

[Nero Cain]

I'm also calling bullshit on 12 vanilla claims. I'd say 10 nilla's 'cause 9 nilla and 6prs seems pretty wonky to me. 10 nilla's and 5 pr would give town 1/3rd prs.

I think 1 of Boon/Thor is defo scum 'cause that's 3 claimed town protection roles and nope. I thinking its Boons 'cause we already had a self protector in Tier.

This also means there is 2 scum in Pine/TSO/Slan. Pine s deff mafia and exactly one of Slan/TSO are wolf.

TSO is "scummier" since he's arguing contradictory things and that sudden burst of activity makes me really uneasy but the onlt thing (not counting POE) is Slan told us to "ignore hood speculation" which in hindsight looks extremely scummy since we have a confirmed wold in our hood and Boon is also looking like scum.

[Nero Cain]

You think a scum wouldn't ever vote for their buddy?

they do but sometimes I think its less likely b/c there have been alot of games where a player was conf town based on who was voting them. But there are two problems with this 1.) You've seen me use this same strategy as town so I can't imagine you fussing about it and 2.) I've been doing this for days now, why are you just now fussing about it?

Wow. What are your claims for either Pine and Thor being 'prob not wolf' when everyone in my neighborhood was saying that they are most likely the wolf team.

<----thor face

I don't think your hood caling Pine and Thor wolfscum has any relevance here but nice appeal to authority.

On top of that, why do you feel Pine is mafia over wolf? I have shown exactly why he CAN'T be mafia, and is in fact the last wolf.

He was being voted by a wolf so I think its less likely he's a wolf. I'll look it up sometime but feel free to remind me why Pine isn't a wolf.

[Nero Cain]

I'll look it up sometime but feel free to remind me why Pine isn't

MAFIA

.

I'm also agreeing with him that your case on him is really bad. I mean you are "right" that he's scum but the reason presented is lol.

[Nero Cain]

We are in an ongoing game.

[Nero Cain]

there was no reason for the Pine wagon to go from mafia pine to mafia flubber. It was a counterwagon. Flubber was a different alignment. Pine and Flubber are not the same alignment. Pine is a wolf.

I don't think it was atleast I didn't feel that way, I was just more confident on Flubber. I was also suspicious of Axle and it was clouding my original judgement of the Pine slot.

+ your theory that Pine is wolf and I (since you are calling me mafia) would lead a CW onto my scumbuddy is all kinds of nope.

[Nero Cain]

I assume we are going the "lets lynch a wolf so the mafia crosskills"?

I'm fairly confident that Boons is wolfscum but I am also heavily considering a no lynch. Discuss!

[Nero Cain]

Nero was the reason I was hesitant on Pine yesterDay. I think I'm blocked, but is there a possibility of Nero being a wolf? Because it's never crossed my mind.

So now I push my buddy (scripten) when he had no heat on him? I means its nice they you are "trying" but you are caught bro.

[Nero Cain]

So why would you be asking yourself/the town the question if you aren't considering it?

Why HAVE you not considered me a wolf?

[Nero Cain]

Pine, remind me of your top 3 scum reads and why.

[Nero Cain]

I assume we are going the "lets lynch a wolf so the mafia crosskills"?

I'm fairly confident that Boons is wolfscum but I am also heavily considering a no lynch. Discuss!

No no lynch. If mafia doesn't cross kill correctly, wolves win.

3/2/1

we no lynch

even if both factions kill a townie its a 1/2/1 game. Wich is still a town loss.

If we were to lynch a wolf today then we'd go into night as 3/1/1 but town would still lose unless there is atleast one crosskill.

So either way we rely on crosskills.

So my thinking was that a nl would give town an extra buffer incase we are wrong but then again I don't think I'm wrong on Boons but even Boon's scum flip requires crosskills so niether seems like a better strategy than the other...idk.

[Nero Cain]

Scripten was voting for Cho, Thor and Josh B and Ren's slot has voted for TSO, Cho, and Thor. Flubber has voted Thor and Boon.

so both teams voted him. I cleared Shiro for the same reasoning and that worked out fine.

[Nero Cain]

I'm going to go watch a movie and be back later but just quickly I think exactly one of Boon/Thor is scum and my guess is Boon.

Leaving the other 2 scum in TSO/Pine/Slandaar. Both Pine and TSO are pretty scummy but if TSO were scum he'd be mafia so we aren't going to lynch him.

My preferred lynch list is Boon or no lynch.

[Nero Cain]

For town to win it still relies on getting a crosskill. I've been thinking this for awhile now that Boon is wolf and is against a no lynch 'cause a no lynch helps town more than it does wolves.

[Nero Cain]

vote:Boon

[Nero Cain]

[quote="In .

I'm going to go watch a movie and be back later but just quickly I think exactly one of Boon/Thor is scum and my guess is Boon.

?

You think we have 4 town prs? I think a 1 shot jk would actully make more sense than a 2 shot BP.

if TSO were scum he'd be mafia

??

The way that scripten tried to play mediator between me and TSO makes me think non wolf and the non wolf scum faction is mafia.

My preferred lynch list is Boon or no lynch.
???

Well I think Boon is scum. The way he's pushing to lynch ALMOST anyone and is against a no lynch (which I think actually greatly benefits town) looks like scum that's about to win and a no lynch hurts them.

So why did/do I think no lynch is a good viable option? Town can't win unless we get a crosskill and a nl gives mafia a slightly larger chance of hitting wolf than town. If we lynch town or mafia its a wolf win and town would also have a better chance of getting shit right.

[Nero Cain]

You think we have 4 town prs?

Considering 1 scum team had 2 PRs and, presumably, so does the other one, and multi faction - yeah, 4 PRs hardly seems off to me.
Also, wouldn't that be 5? JOAT, Vig, JKer, BP, Cop.

yes, this is my point that I DON'T think town has only 4 prs.

The way that scripten tried to play mediator between me and TSO makes me think non wolf and the non wolf scum faction is mafia.

I actually do not dislike this logic - what do you think of TSO's stance that he is not Mafia as he expressed a few posts back in reply to you?

I think when I did my VCA I reached the same conclusion. I think he just misread this as me accusing him of being mafia.

[Nero Cain]

vote:Slandaar

join me Boon

[Nero Cain]

Why Slandaar instead of Pine?

Why do you care which wolf gets lynched?

[Nero Cain]

I would like an answer Nero.

the remaining scum are you, pine and Boons. I believe that Boons is your buddy 'cause he's calling you wolf yet is avoiding lynching you at all costs.