Long term health of mafiascum

[xRECKONERx]

I think it probably has to do with an age dynamic.

I think most of the MS users are late-teen to late-twenties. We're looking at the fact that we have a new generation that handles things differently.

Teenagers I meet now have no clue what a forum is... they use reddit, maybe, but they use Tumblr, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. MS wasn't born in the time of social media dominance that we now experience. Forums seem outdated.

I can trace this to other things, too. Forums were huge when I was in high school. Now, I go and visit some of my old forums, and it's not just MS that's down in the dumps, it's all of them.

We're probably just seeing a shift in communications mediums. AIM died out a long time ago and MS users still use it... now, FB Messenger is dominant. That's not to say we can't adapt. The sitechat idea was a great one and projects like that will continue to do well.

I don't think the popularity of tabletop gaming correlates to what we do. I have plenty of RL friends I've gotten into mafia but they have no desire to use the forums.

[xRECKONERx]

I think we also might be able to become more appealing if we had a better automation system. I know automated signups/game tracking have been talked about for a long time, but no other site has that. Every site has forums where people can play mafia games and we're not the only place to play and learn anymore. But if we had the automated signups, game tracking, etc I think it'd make us stand out. No other site is going to bother with implementing that type of system when they're not specifically mafia focused.

[xRECKONERx]

I also agree with the Web 1.0 sentiment.

Check out this phpBB theme. It feels more current, especially the background and bottom navbar area. Having to access the UCP through a series of informal/text-based interfaces feels bad. Or even check out this one, with responsive HTML5 design. Browsing MS from a mobile device (phone/tablet) is currently an exercise in "how to feel like it's 2006 again".

The site essentially runs itself right now, but for example, having a site presence on Twitter is a really cool idea. I wish it was used more but posting news/announcements/community engagement there is a really awesome idea. And we have a Facebook group, but that's not really doing a whole lot, and FB killed the group message thing. People only use sitechat to chat... why not play mafia games in there? Why aren't people doing it?

What about an app? What if there was a Mafia Scum mobile app that allowed users to play a live game of mafia. Nuwen and I were working on mafia.app for awhile but then she got busy, but if we had something like that, site-branded, where people could play on their phones or tablets (or even a Facebook plugin?) it would certainly increase our appeal.

All of these projects will take tons of coding and time, though, and for a site with no revenue that is purely volunteer-based, I don't think it's feasible. That's the issue. We don't want to monetize the site, and we shouldn't. But I personally think selling stuff like the t-shirts, mafia cards, even beanies or sweatshirts or TIGER ATTACK plushies, who fucking knows... that kind of stuff could be sold, and the "profits" could be used to pay someone for their efforts to get some of these larger projects done (IE, signup automation).

[xRECKONERx]

Reck, do you have suggestions on what else to broadcast on the twitter account? All the skittles have access, but I tend to make most of the posts since I'm the most active twitter-person among the mod team.

I mean, it's just a constant monitoring/updating of stuff. I personally wish the Radioscum project hadn't died, or that we had a site podcast, or something, because that'd give us more to talk about. I'd say the Twitter account should mostly be used to interact with the community. Reply to Tweets, retweet stuff, get some exposure. Then make site announcements/changes public on there. "Hey, our Newbie Queue needs some mods to sign up, please help if you can!" or "Welcome our newest listmod!", that kind of stuff is great.

Reck the sites you link to sure seem to have a lot of wasted real estate on the sides. Is that to be mobile-friendly? Because on a computer, that's just a whole lot of blank space which could be used for more content. Is that what passes for "good" these days?

I mean, have you seen the design of the most popular sites on the web?

Facebook is basically made of blank space on the sides. Youtube, too.

I think it's moving towards a fluid, consistent design across all platforms. My YouTube homepage now looks almost identical to my YouTube app on my Android phone which looks almost identical to my YouTube app on my tablet.

Think about this: more internet traffic comes from mobile than desktop now. It's not a matter of thinking about what looks good on the desktop anymore. Design is more heavily influenced from providing a great mobile experience, then translating that aesthetic/dynamic over to the desktop experience as well as possible.

[xRECKONERx]

And, like I said... when more traffic is coming from those avenues, of course we won't keep up. Trying to use the site right now on a mobile platform is an exercise in futility.

[xRECKONERx]

Maybe I'm just old skool, but I can't be the only person who hates the web 2.0 bling crap, right?

I think Sepia is the best default scheme here if you want to change that. I agree that the logo and banner does need modernization, though

And yet here we are about to launch into Web 3.0!

[xRECKONERx]

It's not optimized for mobile. You can zoom in and click and scroll, but try using our site versus a site designed to be use don a mobile and it's night and day.

[xRECKONERx]

Well, I'm not suggesting the desktop site should be the mobile site just on a desktop. There are universal design principles that provide a seamless experience across any platform.

[xRECKONERx]

Nor do I think they're the right look, but they look better/use some principles this site should use.

[xRECKONERx]

EpicMafia is automated to run quick chat based games. I'm talking automation that tracks games you're in, let's the mod designate what factions won, tracks statistics, provides a summary of what alignments or roles you draw most often, success rates as various alignments or roles, etc

and I'm sorry if the style conversation bores you, but we are a website and this discussion is about how to become more appealing to users.

[xRECKONERx]

I think the automation process has a lot to put towards the whole, "Ooooh! Shiny!" factor that gets people to stick around.

[xRECKONERx]

yeah, I actually posted an idea for a MS stream channel awhile back but it didn't get much momentum.

[xRECKONERx]

I agree with Muffin

[xRECKONERx]

I always thought it was weird people weren't playing audio mafia on the radio show though.

We did mafia a couple of times, at least twice. It just doesn't work that well. Everyone talking makes it hard to know what's happening, and even if people talk one at a time, you end up with voices not being distinct enough.

[xRECKONERx]

I think I'd find MBF's flash uninspiring and immature if I was a new person trying to learn mafia -- get something better. I think the wiki has too much noise and clutter. I think the site in general still has the problem of too many chefs in the kitchen -- get the smartest/most engaged users to run things and let them make decisions rather than talking about everything forever.

I think a queue overhaul wouldn't be a bad idea either, but that sort of goes hand-in-hand with automation.

Here's the deal: all the people coming in here going, "don't change it! I hate Twitter/Facebook/all those confounded modern inventions!" are missing the point of the thread. The point of the thread is, "Hey, continuing on the path we're on is going to result in the site's eventual obsolescence, how do we stop that?" and the bah-humbugs coming in here are proving EXACTLY what we need to change. We're not a refugee camp for people who are scared of technology.

Forums are dead/dying. They're a great form of communication IMO, but they're still a dying medium. Things like automation, updating the site to look less 2002y, integration across other platforms, adoption of social media, etc are all ways to keep the site relevant and adapt to trends. People are conflating "fad" with "trend" -- we're not saying we should all go out and buy Furbys. We're saying, "Hey, this is where web design and communication models are headed or already are, and we're behind the curve". It's not up for debate whether or not social media is a big deal/fad/whatever. Twitter is 8 years old and is still a Top 10 trafficked website. Facebook is over a decade old and is the most trafficked site on the internet. YouTube: 9 years, Top 10. LinkedIn, Reddit, etc are all not "new tech", they've been around a decade or more, and they're not going anywhere. Worrying about these sites and trends and design principles as "fads" is basically saying, "Why invest in redesigning now when we'll just have to do it again in another ten years!?" Because we'll be gone by then.

To be honest, right now, we're a small community. chamber's post is about retaining members. You know how we do that? We adapt. We get rid of outdated policies and stop being so harshly moderated. ListMods are essentially humans volunteering to do a process that by all rights should be completely automated. Outside of that, they don't serve much of a purpose. It's no surprise to me that the closure of Forum 62 and the crackdown on bans/behavior resulted in a slight drop in numbers, too, because people are used to the new truly free internet where you can do and say what you want... obviously, we don't want things to get too ridiculous, but I've seen more heated argument on Facebook between friends who like each other than what's allowed to be said here without a discussion mod stepping in.

We're sitting here, as a community, talking about two different things. The Way Things Are is going to keep us on this low retention, low growth track. The Way Things Could Be would help us grow and appeal to a whole new generation/group of people, but it would involve sacrificing a great deal from The Way Things Are. I don't know which is better.

[xRECKONERx]

We're a game-focused website that doesn't seem to realize it should be game-focused.

We can stay as a forum without modern ideas and get left in the dust in a few years, or we can adapt and really be a headquarters for the best shit about mafia on the internet, regardless of the medium.

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah our SEO is very bad.

[xRECKONERx]

Signups should be automated, too.

Once signups are automated, it'd be as simple as a moderator just choosing a role from a drop-down menu.

[xRECKONERx]

Then we don't need listmods to do a bunch of work!

Then we can just have people signup and give the moderator of each game approval/rejection powers!

[xRECKONERx]

Private Topics should be subthreads of the game, by the way, instead of their own forum.

[xRECKONERx]

I can do marketing, advertising, social media, etc but that's pretty useless to a site that isn't being monetized.

Plus, it's highly unlikely things like that get entrusted to non-staff.

[xRECKONERx]

But we are always on the first page, right?

no

[xRECKONERx]

Actually, I think a survey for newbie players after they complete a game would be good...

1) What attracted you to mafiascum?

2) Why do you like here?

3) What would you like to see changed?

These questions are just off the top of my head but you get the idea. Obviously if someone site-flakes midgame they won't answer but I have seen people complete one or two games and it looks like they never come back.

please no.

This kind of shit is obnoxious

[xRECKONERx]

Dropping a poll on someone after their first game here is going to result in more people fleeing.

[xRECKONERx]

Yes but Godaddy/Amazon, premium sites where you're paying for service, is a lot different than some random game forum on the internet.

[xRECKONERx]

Uhhh I missed this but damn that mockup on the last page looks amazing

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah, Werewolf is the dominant term for this game now.
"So you want to play Mafia?"
"What...?"
"Errr, ever heard of werewolf?"
"Oh! Yeah!"

Not to mention the popularity of mafia-themed video games and apps and the like make it increasingly hard to get search traffic over those things. Someone would have to be very specific with their search results.

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah. One-Night Ultimate Werewolf is not Werewolf.

[xRECKONERx]

I love BBMolla's suggestions.

[xRECKONERx]

good job kison

[xRECKONERx]

oh boy i sure can't wait to check team mafia tonight

*boy oh boy

ftfy

[xRECKONERx]

It's against the rules to explicitly advertise on MS. Other mafia sites exist. I'm not sure they are really poaching.

Some are

Others are perfectly fine neighbors and coexist peacefully

[xRECKONERx]

again, if the price we have to pay is lower user counts to have a space where bigotry and racism isn't tolerated, that's a fine price tbqh