Long term health of mafiascum

[Nero Cain]

I think the reason that deadlines are so long is 'cause well...not everyone has lots of time sometimes. Though I agree with you a bit on shorter deadlines and shorter deadlines might keep new players around.

[chamber]

In my personal and doubtlessly unpopular opinion I don't think a game day should be longer then 1 week, maximum.

It's ok for you to hold that opinion. I was just in a game with 8 day Days, and I felt I couldn't do anything in so little time. Making the game signup and creation system more flexible so that it can handle a wider variety of games is key to solving your issue I think. I'm the only one that's actually proposed any sort of change though, do you have any ideas?

From what I understand, the reason moderators here run longer games is because games have always been long here. I'm not sure changing how the queue system works would change what people think the base length of a game should be, rather then Mafiascum Official (tm) guidelines changing. Right now Newbies have to be run with two week deadlines, so the first experience in theory people have with this site is a month to two month long game. (with exceptions obviously for more likely to quickhammer..)

I am simply suggesting mods run shorter deadline games more often as a community. The good side of this is it seems deadlines do keep getting shorter here over time?

It would be highly undesirable for mods to just start running 48h deadline games without making it VERY clear that it was a function of their game. As I said before, the queue structure forces an amount of homogeneity and deadline times fit into that.

[ZZZX]

Chat mafia is easier to get to for new users.

I personally started in another chat mafia which ended up with me here after a long time . so fixing that is a good idea

[Hoopla]

I think I'd find MBF's flash uninspiring and immature if I was a new person trying to learn mafia -- get something better. I think the wiki has too much noise and clutter. I think the site in general still has the problem of too many chefs in the kitchen -- get the smartest/most engaged users to run things and let them make decisions rather than talking about everything forever.

I think a queue overhaul wouldn't be a bad idea either, but that sort of goes hand-in-hand with automation.

[wgeurts]

Hoopla, suggestions for the wiki to make it less cluttered?

[quadz08]

Does anyone have the knowledge / experience to make a new mafia basics video?

[Psyche]

what's missing from the current one?

[GuyInFreezer]

I HIGHLY doubt that site design as anything to do with this site going down hill but more advertising seems like a good idea.

^

IMO problem is the quality of games declining severely, but there's not much that can be done to fix that, mafia isn't a game where you can roll out a patch to fix meta.

The only way to fix meta is to break it.

[zoraster]

what exactly does it mean for a game to be high quality, katsuki?

[quadz08]

what's missing from the current one?

It's just very old at this point. It's a flash video from at least 5 years ago, probably more.

[GuyInFreezer]

Also I think if we're incorporating a proper chat mafia to this site, we'll have to decide if the chat mafia is gonna be a minor feature or treat it equally as a forum mafia in terms of importance.

[GuyInFreezer]

Because whether if chat mafia is major or not it's gonna split the playerbase. There will be people who only visits ms for chat mafia and previous forum mafia player converting to chat mafia only player.

[saulres]

I find it fascinating that some people say chat mafia is the way to go, while others are saying things like "I like long deadlines". Those two are completely at odds, aren't they?

Seems to me that in order to grow, the site needs to be able to cater to both types of players: Ones who want quick fixes NOW and ones who want time to analyze.

[zoraster]

I kind of disagree. I think there's a danger in going full bore on both in that it doesn't focus on MS's core competency and risks dividing the attention of the current userbase leading to reduced activity in both. I'm also not sure what we offer as a chat mafia place that other places don't have. We have no built in functionality, after all.

To what extent do we need or want to become a very different site? We're obviously not doing this to make money, so presumably we're here because we want to play mafia a certain way. I think that "certain way" has a huge and broad range of ways to play, but chat and forum mafia are fundamentally different animals.

[saulres]

Well I wasn't thinking specifically of chat mafia as a solution to the "shorter games" issue so much as a mindset desiring them.

[xRECKONERx]

I always thought it was weird people weren't playing audio mafia on the radio show though.

We did mafia a couple of times, at least twice. It just doesn't work that well. Everyone talking makes it hard to know what's happening, and even if people talk one at a time, you end up with voices not being distinct enough.

[xRECKONERx]

I think I'd find MBF's flash uninspiring and immature if I was a new person trying to learn mafia -- get something better. I think the wiki has too much noise and clutter. I think the site in general still has the problem of too many chefs in the kitchen -- get the smartest/most engaged users to run things and let them make decisions rather than talking about everything forever.

I think a queue overhaul wouldn't be a bad idea either, but that sort of goes hand-in-hand with automation.

Here's the deal: all the people coming in here going, "don't change it! I hate Twitter/Facebook/all those confounded modern inventions!" are missing the point of the thread. The point of the thread is, "Hey, continuing on the path we're on is going to result in the site's eventual obsolescence, how do we stop that?" and the bah-humbugs coming in here are proving EXACTLY what we need to change. We're not a refugee camp for people who are scared of technology.

Forums are dead/dying. They're a great form of communication IMO, but they're still a dying medium. Things like automation, updating the site to look less 2002y, integration across other platforms, adoption of social media, etc are all ways to keep the site relevant and adapt to trends. People are conflating "fad" with "trend" -- we're not saying we should all go out and buy Furbys. We're saying, "Hey, this is where web design and communication models are headed or already are, and we're behind the curve". It's not up for debate whether or not social media is a big deal/fad/whatever. Twitter is 8 years old and is still a Top 10 trafficked website. Facebook is over a decade old and is the most trafficked site on the internet. YouTube: 9 years, Top 10. LinkedIn, Reddit, etc are all not "new tech", they've been around a decade or more, and they're not going anywhere. Worrying about these sites and trends and design principles as "fads" is basically saying, "Why invest in redesigning now when we'll just have to do it again in another ten years!?" Because we'll be gone by then.

To be honest, right now, we're a small community. chamber's post is about retaining members. You know how we do that? We adapt. We get rid of outdated policies and stop being so harshly moderated. ListMods are essentially humans volunteering to do a process that by all rights should be completely automated. Outside of that, they don't serve much of a purpose. It's no surprise to me that the closure of Forum 62 and the crackdown on bans/behavior resulted in a slight drop in numbers, too, because people are used to the new truly free internet where you can do and say what you want... obviously, we don't want things to get too ridiculous, but I've seen more heated argument on Facebook between friends who like each other than what's allowed to be said here without a discussion mod stepping in.

We're sitting here, as a community, talking about two different things. The Way Things Are is going to keep us on this low retention, low growth track. The Way Things Could Be would help us grow and appeal to a whole new generation/group of people, but it would involve sacrificing a great deal from The Way Things Are. I don't know which is better.

[Casanova]

I HIGHLY doubt that site design as anything to do with this site going down hill but more advertising seems like a good idea.

Site design is probably not a primary cause of decline, but it's safe to say that it is a factor:

I joined this site because the wiki impressed me, and gave me the impression the folks here were competent. If I had just been Googling for mafia communities and came here... honestly? I would have hit the Back button about three seconds later because the default forum skin looks like... well... it immediately gets sorted in my mind alongside all the free forums people throw together in a day. It doesn't look like a lot of care or effort was expended.

(Which is not to say care or effort wasn't spent, just giving honest feedback on the first impression the default skin gives compared to other sites today)

[xRECKONERx]

We're a game-focused website that doesn't seem to realize it should be game-focused.

We can stay as a forum without modern ideas and get left in the dust in a few years, or we can adapt and really be a headquarters for the best shit about mafia on the internet, regardless of the medium.

[Majiffy]

If we do the social media thing can we pleeeeease include Google+? I feel so left out of things when they require facebook accounts.

[chamber]

Based on what I see in those numbers, our user retention rate looks like it's gone up not down. The primary problem in need of fixing is that new users has MASSIVELY dropped off.

[chamber]

A lot of the suggestions have been technical in nature. The problem there is the amount of man power we have. I can take 1 thing and run with it, I don't have the time or drive to do 10 things. This effort is going to take the whole community to be successful. If there is something you can think of that you can do, share it.

[saulres]

Based on what I see in those numbers, our user retention rate looks like it's gone up not down. The primary problem in need of fixing is that new users has MASSIVELY dropped off.

That's different then. That's not us doing anything wrong, that's people not finding us.

I just opened a private browser and Googled "Mafia Game". We don't show up on the first three pages at all. "Mafia Roles" we're the first listing. "Mafia Online" we're number seven, with epicmafia as number one.

Bing: "Mafia Game", not in the first three pages. "Mafia Roles", third on the list. "Mafia Online", towards the bottom of page 3.

Google again: "Werewolf Game", not in first three pages. "Werewolf Roles", not until page 3.

Search engines aren't finding us well enough I think.

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah our SEO is very bad.

[zoraster]

I did advertising through google adwords a while ago with my own money as a test case, spending about 20 bucks. I think unless and until the site gets somewhat monetized (even lightly) that it's difficult to maintain an advertising presence though.

fwiw I'm all for statistics being automated, even if it was a simple "enter who is mafia, town, and third party and who won" for each game, then having a player's profile show win, loss records for each type. The issue is I'm not sure who's going to code that, and getting universal adoption would require some concerted effort beyond just the coding.