Long term health of mafiascum

[LlamaFluff]

I don't think surveying people after they finish their game is a bad idea. There are only a small number of people like LF who have objected to the large theme surveys and I think I've gained a fair amount of insight from that plus provided imperfect feedback to the mods in my queue.

My problem is numerical based surveys because those are harder to end with two people who have the exact same thoughts end the game. Like if you had a game that there was not much more mod could have done, but if you looked at your last 20 games or so was on the lower end of overall mod quality, I could see a large range of what types of responses you get. Maybe I give the mod a 7 when approached as "how well was the game run" and a 4 when I approach it as "how well was this game ran compared to what other mods have ran". Do you base it on recent experiences or isolated occurrences?

Yes/No type questions are harder to end up with that happening. A "will you play again" and "why" would be very good questions for newbies because it would actually give us a line or two of what their perspective is in writing instead of a number.

[Casanova]

In the case of newbies who are killed off early in the game, would PM'ing them a short survey after they're killed (rather than waiting until endgame when the ones who won't play another game have already logged out of Mafia Scum for the last time) be prudent?

[zoraster]

it might be best practice, but it'd be a pain in the neck for the listmod to do. Though theoretically you could have each game mod send a link to the survey each time someone dies.

[Casanova]

That would be good.

[chamber]

it might be best practice, but it'd be a pain in the neck for the listmod to do. Though theoretically you could have each game mod send a link to the survey each time someone dies.

I was just going to voice this as an idea, glad to see someone beat me to it.

[N]

My problem is numerical based surveys because those are harder to end with two people who have the exact same thoughts end the game. Like if you had a game that there was not much more mod could have done, but if you looked at your last 20 games or so was on the lower end of overall mod quality, I could see a large range of what types of responses you get. Maybe I give the mod a 7 when approached as "how well was the game run" and a 4 when I approach it as "how well was this game ran compared to what other mods have ran". Do you base it on recent experiences or isolated occurrences?

Who cares? You're scoring someone lower because there are other people that are better that get good scores; this is not a problem.

[chamber]

What do we think of giving all games their own signup threads and increasing their visibility in some way?

[Porochaz]

Probably impossible. I don't think you can do both.

Also more unwieldy and would look more messy and uninviting.

[Shadowmod]

I think some design changes would go a long way. There are many good options that distinguish this forum as one catering to playing games of mafia in it, like the iso function, private topics etc., but most of them are either (relatively) hard to find or badly placed. Why do I have to scroll to the top or bottom of a page to make an iso, check PMs or use most of the other interactive elements? Why do I need to check the OP or iso the mod if I want to view a complete player list or the newest vote count? Why can't I link private topics directly to a game they belong to, so, for example, players who have access to a private topic belonging to a game automatically get a list of links to those private topics if they enter the game thread? Sure, using multiple browser tabs can work a round some of these, but it is still not intuitive.

Seriously, GUIs of all kinds have been using stuff like static menu elements (like task, menu, quicklaunch, side bars etc.) for ever now. Why can't a forum adapt the basic principles to make navigation more convenient and purposeful?

I have no idea, how much coding work a forum redesign would actually be, but it is the one thing that would have a great impact on attractivity without the need to change any of the underlying strucutres, which is probably harder to do because the community would not support those changes.

And I agree that the standard blue theme looks kind of bland, old and unispired. Something more sleek and ellegant would be nice. But not the current black theme, please. It's really not that great in practice, I think, and I hate how it doesn't properly display half of the text colours.

[chamber]

I think some design changes would go a long way. There are many good options that distinguish this forum as one catering to playing games of mafia in it, like the iso function, private topics etc., but most of them are either (relatively) hard to find or badly placed. Why do I have to scroll to the top or bottom of a page to make an iso, check PMs or use most of the other interactive elements? Why do I need to check the OP or iso the mod if I want to view a complete player list or the newest vote count? Why can't I link private topics directly to a game they belong to, so, for example, players who have access to a private topic belonging to a game automatically get a list of links to those private topics if they enter the game thread? Sure, using multiple browser tabs can work a round some of these, but it is still not intuitive.

Seriously, GUIs of all kinds have been using stuff like static menu elements (like task, menu, quicklaunch, side bars etc.) for ever now. Why can't a forum adapt the basic principles to make navigation more convenient and purposeful?

I have no idea, how much coding work a forum redesign would actually be, but it is the one thing that would have a great impact on attractivity without the need to change any of the underlying strucutres, which is probably harder to do because the community would not support those changes.

And I agree that the standard blue theme looks kind of bland, old and unispired. Something more sleek and ellegant would be nice. But not the current black theme, please. It's really not that great in practice, I think, and I hate how it doesn't properly display half of the text colours.

You don't have to scroll to iso. There is literally an iso button on every post a player makes.

[chamber]

and I hate how it doesn't properly display half of the text colours.

A bunch of colours are otherwise illegible. If you think there is a better solution I'm open to hearing it?

[chamber]

And just so it doesn't seem like I'm dismissing everything you said, I'm just still processing the implementation and how much work it would be for several of them.

[saulres]

Though theoretically you could have each game mod send a link to the survey each time someone dies.

Where's House to suggest that this be automated?

[zoraster]

personally I don't think forums look particularly dated, but I do think that the header looks extremely dated. Plenty of people still use forums and forum-like things. Reddit is basically a rearranged forum.

But this:



Looks VERY web 1.0. from the low res graphic to the courier new-esque typeset it's just old.

[chamber]

Let me nuke it and I will .

[zoraster]

do you have a replacement in mind? If so, you certainly have my permission for what little that's worth

[chamber]

I don't need your permission I need mith/flays.

[Faraday]

What do we think of giving all games their own signup threads and increasing their visibility in some way?

Kind of messy, maybe.

It doesn't really work for newbies, right? How many individual sign up threads would there be then? A large/mini normal, 2 mini themes, 1 or 2 large themes some micros. It gives each game their own focus I suppose - which does work for Large Themes, but if you do it everyone it might just be cluttered.

[chamber]

I think threads not in sign up would need to be strictly moved to a different forum. And games seeking replacement could also probably get their own forum?

[zoraster]

I don't really see an advantage to having a bunch of sign up threads. If it were automated you could see how it would work as only active games would have threads and you could color code them by game type or what not and then the game would have a button to press to "enter game" and a button to "list players in game" (basically a game lobby), but with manual entering and with the current forum look it's really just too messy.

[Porochaz]

That also assumes people know what they are looking for when they go into the queue.

[chamber]

I don't know who you are talking to.

[Porochaz]

Was talking to zor there.

Basically Im not seeing the advantages of what you are suggesting, though, chamber.

[chamber]

I think for new players our queue system can be quite confusing and misleading as to how active we are. You can see very old signup threads on the first page, and often there wont be any because no large themes are in signups. It makes the signup process and activity level more visible if we give each game its own signup thread.

[zoraster]

i mean it may be, but I don't think having tons of sign up threads is any less confusing, and it substantially reduces the chance of a newbie finding his or her way into the newbie queue. Something like this might work:



At first it could simply be that those threads act exactly the same (except there would be an area for mods to enter in players signed up that would update the OP and the sign up number and a toggle for the game status) and the join this game button would automatically make a /in post and take you to the end of the thread, the replace into the game would either take you to a PM to the mod or type /replace. The thread could function exactly as before (in that if you click on the thread it takes you to the OP with info etc). It could also serve as the first step toward automatic sign ups. It'd still be curated by the moderator, but it would start the process of moderators entering into the system who is playing in what games.