Long term health of mafiascum

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Post Post #350 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:48 am

Post by Shadowmod »

In post 323, chamber wrote:I think for new players our queue system can be quite confusing and misleading as to how active we are. You can see very old signup threads on the first page, and often there wont be any because no large themes are in signups. It makes the signup process and activity level more visible if we give each game its own signup thread.

Why not just make one big button that is among the first things that you can see or click when entering the site, which says sometzhng along the lines of "want to get started right away? - Here are the game" redirects you to a cummulative thread that always shows a complete list of games currently in signups, each with a link to the appropriate queue/signup thread.
Another thing, where some automation would go a long way, of course.
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Post Post #351 (ISO) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:51 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

I might be a little late to the survey party, but has anybody thought about giving some icebreaker questions in the newbie introduction thread to gain data? Or are we trying to be a lot more quantitative (rate your experience 1 to 5, etc, etc.)?
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Post Post #352 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:36 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

In post 172, saulres wrote:
In post 170, chamber wrote:Based on what I see in those numbers, our user retention rate looks like it's gone up not down. The primary problem in need of fixing is that new users has MASSIVELY dropped off.


That's different then. That's not us doing anything wrong, that's people not finding us.

I just opened a private browser and Googled "Mafia Game". We don't show up on the first three pages at all. "Mafia Roles" we're the first listing. "Mafia Online" we're number seven, with epicmafia as number one.

Bing: "Mafia Game", not in the first three pages. "Mafia Roles", third on the list. "Mafia Online", towards the bottom of page 3.

Google again: "Werewolf Game", not in first three pages. "Werewolf Roles", not until page 3.

Search engines aren't finding us well enough I think.
I feel like this got lost in the discussion. Stickiness is hard if new users aren't even HITTING the site. So who does SEO??

FWIW, I am fine with my old logos being archived immediately if the new one is ready to go (there was always some technical reason we didn't have the final graphic, IIRC).
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Post Post #353 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:04 am

Post by chamber »

In post 352, Mr. Flay wrote:
In post 172, saulres wrote:
In post 170, chamber wrote:Based on what I see in those numbers, our user retention rate looks like it's gone up not down. The primary problem in need of fixing is that new users has MASSIVELY dropped off.


That's different then. That's not us doing anything wrong, that's people not finding us.

I just opened a private browser and Googled "Mafia Game". We don't show up on the first three pages at all. "Mafia Roles" we're the first listing. "Mafia Online" we're number seven, with epicmafia as number one.

Bing: "Mafia Game", not in the first three pages. "Mafia Roles", third on the list. "Mafia Online", towards the bottom of page 3.

Google again: "Werewolf Game", not in first three pages. "Werewolf Roles", not until page 3.

Search engines aren't finding us well enough I think.
I feel like this got lost in the discussion. Stickiness is hard if new users aren't even HITTING the site. So who does SEO??

FWIW, I am fine with my old logos being archived immediately if the new one is ready to go (there was always some technical reason we didn't have the final graphic, IIRC).


I think the one we are using on mafblack is the wrong size and didn't resize perfectly, with that said I think it looks a lot better that what we currently use.
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Post Post #354 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:23 am

Post by Anatole Kuragin »

In post 351, Flubbernugget wrote:I might be a little late to the survey party, but has anybody thought about giving some icebreaker questions in the newbie introduction thread to gain data? Or are we trying to be a lot more quantitative (rate your experience 1 to 5, etc, etc.)?


I don't think that's a bad idea - I think engaging new users better would increase retention rates after the first post (presumably they found their way to the introduction thread for a reason) - but the original point of the data we're looking at is there are less people making an account and posting once.

This has probably already been said a hundred times but I think it just boils down to:

a) evangelism
b) presentation
c) SEO

If we performed better in those three areas, active membership would be increasing. Forums may be less popular than 10 years ago, but that doesn't mean a healthy forum can't be growing at a decent rate. There are more people online than ever and more people interested in playing games online than ever.

I think a livestream is a really good idea to steer people here
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Post Post #355 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:51 am

Post by HorseDetective »

I think I'm probably one of the posters talked about here in that I have had accounts in the past, now abandoned because I can't remember passwords/emails for them, which participated in one game or half a game and then dropped out. I like the atmosphere here, but I felt the major problem was speed and hierarchy: it takes an immensely long time to enter a game here, it takes a long time for the game to start, a day runs for
two weeks
, which is the longest I've ever known in any mafia community and can become intolerably boring on occasion, and so on. The hierarchy point is the restrictions which are put on creating games. I came here because I played Mafia on other forums, enjoyed it, and looked for a more focused community; but then I find it easier to participate in and create my own Mafia games in the forums I started in! I get that there's a trade-off between Wild Wild West style of everyone being able to do everything and the quality dropping versus a relative guarantee of quality mafia games, but if you are looking for membership, I think the rules have been excessively tightened to the point they are really hurting you. All of this might not actually be the case as of this post; it's my experience from probably about a year ago now, but I was just thinking of rejoining and saw this and thought I'd put in my 2p. Make games shorter and give people more control over the games they actually want to play and more people will stick around.

EDIT: Oh, and I think I first looked at this site in like 2010(?) (Yes, I'm a habitual lurker and lapser) so maybe I didn't think of it as much, but the forums are really ugly. It looks like an amateur operation instead of a site which puts out some really interesting posts about how to play Mafia.

EDIT2: I made a super quick mock=up of a 'modern' MafiaScum, using the NeoGAF forums as a base and then adapting because I think they provide a particularly good example of a well-run community with an attractive website. There is also a white theme, but I used the dark because I'm cool like that:

Image

If you just focus on chamber's post, as I didn't alter the others, I think it seems a lot more clean and accessible. I would have liked to have used Helvetica rather than Arial as the font but I'm laptop only not PC atm and don't have Helvetica currently on my ,laptop.
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Post Post #356 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:38 am

Post by Quilford »

God, I would be all over that.
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Post Post #357 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:52 am

Post by Quilford »

I think we could do a lot worse than using one of these really nice looking, responsive and mobile-ready phpBB templates, just make a few tiny aesthetic changes like colouring etc to suit ms.net, and you have something that looks super super professional and will stop hundreds of people who visit the site each year and then click off, terrified that they've somehow warped back ten years or something.

Also, they appear to cost $16, because we can get a regular license because the users of this site aren't charged anything, which seems like a massive goddamn bargain.
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Post Post #358 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:34 am

Post by Xayzeck »

In post 356, Quilford wrote:God, I would be all over that.
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Post Post #359 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:45 am

Post by chamber »

In post 357, Quilford wrote:I think we could do a lot worse than using one of these really nice looking, responsive and mobile-ready phpBB templates, just make a few tiny aesthetic changes like colouring etc to suit ms.net, and you have something that looks super super professional and will stop hundreds of people who visit the site each year and then click off, terrified that they've somehow warped back ten years or something.

Also, they appear to cost $16, because we can get a regular license because the users of this site aren't charged anything, which seems like a massive goddamn bargain.


You don't think literally all of those look ugly? I agree that the forum should probably be more responsive, but I suspect it would be less work to just update the current theme to be.
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Post Post #360 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:46 am

Post by quadz08 »

That's actually quite nice, conceptually.

Edit: Chamber, literally everyone one of those is several dozen times better than what we have now.
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Post Post #361 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:52 am

Post by Quilford »

1. No, I don't think they look ugly. At worst they look super boring, which is actually a positive, because this is a text-heavy site so the focus should not be on having a really eye catching design. Change some of the colours, put the new ms logo on, and it'll be great IMO.

2. Like it or not, that's what modern web design looks like. People look at designs like that and they trust them like they trust a gleaming beautiful new skyscraper, because they share design cues with Facebook, Twitter, news sites etc: sites they visit every day. By comparison, ms.net looks like a freaking crack house. I'm not joking.
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Post Post #362 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:57 am

Post by HorseDetective »

I do think you have to be careful insofar as that those themes, while a step up, are quite... generic and might be a turn-off in that they don't initially look distinctive and professional. They would be a good start to modify, though.

I'm also not convinced that forum design is 100% the main problem; the others I mentioned would be bigger issues for me even if forum design is one.
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Post Post #363 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:59 am

Post by chamber »

In post 360, quadz08 wrote:That's actually quite nice, conceptually.

Edit: Chamber, literally everyone one of those is several dozen times better than what we have now.


It's not as easy as 'ok we are using this now', it would be actual work to implement many of these (and anytime a style mentions not needing coding to make changes I want to run).

If I have to do actual work I'd rather end up with something I like rather than something that's better than what we have.
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Post Post #364 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:00 am

Post by chamber »

In post 362, HorseDetective wrote:I'm also not convinced that forum design is 100% the main problem; the others I mentioned would be bigger issues for me even if forum design is one.


People see problems in their area of expertise. Quilford does graphic design so it's the error that looks the worst to him.
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Post Post #365 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:01 am

Post by HorseDetective »

In post 363, chamber wrote:
In post 360, quadz08 wrote:That's actually quite nice, conceptually.

Edit: Chamber, literally everyone one of those is several dozen times better than what we have now.


It's not as easy as 'ok we are using this now', it would be actual work to implement many of these (and anytime a style mentions not needing coding to make changes I want to run).

If I have to do actual work I'd rather end up with something I like rather than something that's better than what we have.


yeah, from my experience in web-site design the last sentence there is 100% true. Trialling mock-ups before change is waaay better than leaping in.
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Post Post #366 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:05 am

Post by Quilford »

re: HorseDetective 362

Yeah, I'm assuming there'd be a fair amount of modification done e.g. doing the mafia-themed buttons etc. Honestly, I don't think anything could be more generic than prosilver, it's literally the default phpBB template.

Some of them certainly don't look as good as others, for example I would definitely not go for Origami, Metro, Coralis or Flato. Charon, Ariki, Marina and Hawiki are all fine if a little boring, but Wide is really quite good imo
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Post Post #367 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:10 am

Post by chamber »

Wide is by far the worst offender imo. Flato looked the most potentially workable.
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Post Post #368 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:11 am

Post by Quilford »

Anyway I should really stop derailing this thread with design complaints, when this is really more about our procedures re: actually playing Mafia. I would really be excited to see ms get a facelift is all. Maybe there should be a separate thread for discussing design in Site Ideas or something.
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Post Post #369 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:11 am

Post by Quilford »

In post 367, chamber wrote:Wide is by far the worst offender imo. Flato looked the most potentially workable.

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Post Post #370 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:12 am

Post by HorseDetective »

Wide initially looked really bad, but it has two formats: Side Menu with Two Side Widgets and Header with Footer Widgets (see: http://themesteam.com/wide/demo/ ). Side Menu is the hideous one, but Header with Footer is actually really quite appealing and mobile friendly. I could do a mock-up using it if you wanted.
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Post Post #371 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:13 am

Post by Quilford »

Yes, I forgot to mention that the side menu version of Wide is definitely not the one to consider.
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Post Post #372 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:24 pm

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 38, quadz08 wrote:Reck, do you have suggestions on what else to broadcast on the twitter account? All the skittles have access, but I tend to make most of the posts since I'm the most active twitter-person among the mod team.


Tweet ads about the large theme games. #WalkingDead #CutthroatKitchen #etc and a small blurb might attract people who look into the site, and may stay to play, then stay some more. Even mini theme games, or just any game in signup.
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Post Post #373 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:49 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

^^yes
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Post Post #374 (ISO) » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:38 pm

Post by borkjerfkin »

#borkgame
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