Long term health of mafiascum

[zoraster]

i don't even mean that. It just sounds... weird. and like.. i'm not sure people who just play party werewolf or whatever know what a "Scum" is, do they?

[chamber]

I do agree that werewolf seeming to have taken off as the common vernacular has hurt us.

[mith]

chamber poked me about this thread. I'll update the index page when I get home; anything else urgent?

I am open to any redesign ideas, including a complete rebranding. I don't know how much progress can realistically get made on that until I'm back from my honeymoon though.

[chamber]

I returned the index page to what it was prior to the march notice. The content could likely use further updating of some sort though.

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah, Werewolf is the dominant term for this game now.
"So you want to play Mafia?"
"What...?"
"Errr, ever heard of werewolf?"
"Oh! Yeah!"

Not to mention the popularity of mafia-themed video games and apps and the like make it increasingly hard to get search traffic over those things. Someone would have to be very specific with their search results.

[Majiffy]

Not to mention the popularity of mafia-themed video games and apps and the like make it increasingly hard to get search traffic over those things. Someone would have to be very specific with their search results.

So true. When I say I'm playing mafia they usually assume it's one of

those

games.

[Phoenicks]

Why isn't there interest in offering a separate queue for shorter games? Until you offer something like that, marketing, design, and SEO will only make a marginal difference.

It's quite hard to tell how it would actually fair. How would you propose it be set up though?

Loose hosting requirements. Host one game at a time. 24- or 48-hour phases minimum, 5-6 day phases maximum enforced. Sign-up for individual games, like the Theme Park.* Contact individual mods for replacements.

A fast queue only needs to function like queues on other sites. They don't expect games to have huge time requirements, which undercuts almost every reason for host quality control. The main point of the system would be to avoid the fast queue affecting other parts of the site. This means specifying exactly what kinds of games belong in there (mainly the kids of games other sites would run). Other queues could keep their strict modding requirements and enforced waiting, which would keep a barrier up from players who won't play long games from playing long games.

No one here wants to make mafiascum like every other forum. We don't need to. Add a new section that scratches the same itch other websites do, while keeping our normal structure perfectly in tact.

*(Most sites I've played on run on some version of this, even if it means hosts post in a queue that has no limit on number of games in signups. This means hosts host when they're ready, and enthusiasm doesn't drain away in a line. It also reduces the expectations that require strong rules in other queues.)

We aren't going to institute queues just to see what happens. I'm loathe to just add more queues as I think our player and mod population barely fills the number we have, so I'd rather see a new queue replace an old one than just keep adding queues.

I understand the point that in order to attract people who like short deadlines it we would need to provide a consistent stream of short deadline games, but there also needs to be demand from our current players.

Zoroaster, maybe this is unfair: I get the feeling you don't want to make any changes, and won't hear any arguments in favor of them.

Almost every other mafia forum has fast games. Multiple players in this thread have expressed interest in fast games. We are having a marathon this weekend. Why do you think there isn't any demand for fast games?

If you want to run a really short game, I highly encourage you to do so. The Large Theme queue is the perfect place for a very short deadline game as it would allow you to play large mostly balanced games with fewer killing roles.

This isn't about balance or number of killing roles. I'm not sure what your point is.

I'm not allowed to host a Large Theme. Many players aren't. I've hosted about a dozen games offsite, half with 20+ players. This rightly doesn't count, but does make your requirements the more insulting:

"A moderator must demonstrate that they have moderated two games on mafiascum.net in the Mini-Normal, Open, Mini-Theme, or Large Normal Queues. Alternatively, the second game of experience may be fulfilled by successfully moderating three (3) Micro games, at least one of which must have been designed by the moderator."

A Mini-Theme and Large Normal, however, both require hosting a Mini-Normal first. The Mini-Normal queue is 12 mods long. How long will I wait in that list? 12 days? 12 weeks? Why, after I've waited to host a Mini-Normal for 2 months, spent another 2 in execution, waited a month in a different queue to get experience, and waited a month for my record to be vetted, my game approved, my sign-ups to be finished, and my game to start, would I run a short phases experiment? What guarantee do I have that the list mod won't require longer phases, as he is allowed to do? ("listmod may impose additional restrictions")

This is not a system amenable to fast games.

I don't think you'd need a separate queue, either. I don't immediately see what would be wrong with just running a few Newbie Games straight away with this format; the best way might to be to offer sign-ups for two Newbie Games at the same time, one with 7:1 and one with the traditional 14:1, and let newbies choose which one they preferred

The mods have decided (fairly, I think) that Newbie games will only prepare players for the games we already offer. This is good: however, because we are not training players for short games, we (supposedly) don't have players who want short games, so we don't have short games, so we don't train players for short games...

This is self-fulfilling.

The other thing to consider is that mods of very quick games have to be VERY on point. Updating a vote count once a day probably is insufficient.

Why? I've seen plenty of games work with 0-2 votecounts a day. Players get by.

Weren't we already talking about automating votecounts? This sounds like you being difficult.

Genuine question, and I guess this is aimed at maybe fferyllt who has the experience from both, but is playing 1-week days significantly different to playing 2-week days?

Yes: there's not enough time for anyone to miss a few days, lurk, etc. Players have to generally be on-point all week. But with week-long phases, there's an expectation that "we have time, we don't need to rush".

I think it's worth pointing out that PLAYERS are in control of the timing too. If players want to end a day every 36 hours they can.

This is an unreasonable standard. If I wanted to prove that not all games need cops, should I refuse to inspect at night?

[reinoe]

I just typed up "online mafia".

Epic mafia was the first result (ewwww) and mafiascum was the fourth.

Typing "mafia online" and we were fifth after the wiki article on mafia.

edit: trying the same thing with "werewolf" was a disaster. Even if people know it as werewolf, they'll get better results with "mafia".

[zoraster]

Zoroaster, maybe this is unfair: I get the feeling you don't want to make any changes, and won't hear any arguments in favor of them.

not in the least. I'm pretty receptive to changes, but I'm not receptive to "let's just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" because we also have to consider maintaining our present state as well as grow future ms members. Any change needs to be pretty well thought through.

[Marquis]

Welcome to MafiaScum
mafiascum.net/
Online community that is forum based and centered around the "Mafia" game. Includes facts and wiki.

should add "Werewolf" where the search engines will show it

[esuriospiritus]

Just wanted to note that I like the updates to mafblack. It looks nice and isn't too hard on my eyes.

[Majiffy]

edit: trying the same thing with "werewolf" was a disaster. Even if people know it as werewolf, they'll get better results with "mafia".

Probably because "mafia" has been the name of the game since its inception, and "werewolf" has only recently taken up steam with things like One Night Werewolf. Ergo all the online communities have been calling themselves and the game mafia for quite a while.

[Phoenicks]

Zoroaster, maybe this is unfair: I get the feeling you don't want to make any changes, and won't hear any arguments in favor of them.

not in the least. I'm pretty receptive to changes, but I'm not receptive to "let's just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" because we also have to consider maintaining our present state as well as grow future ms members. Any change needs to be pretty well thought through.

What do you think of my queue proposal? Please tell me what about it needs more thought. (That's not angry rhetoric, I mean it earnestly.)

edit: trying the same thing with "werewolf" was a disaster. Even if people know it as werewolf, they'll get better results with "mafia".

Probably because "mafia" has been the name of the game since its inception, and "werewolf" has only recently taken up steam with things like One Night Werewolf. Ergo all the online communities have been calling themselves and the game mafia for quite a while.

With a name like "mafiascum" this is inevitable, but is there some way of fixing this besides editing some search engine mechanics? Bulbapedia, I remember, encouraged memes like this to spread to advertise itself:

Spoiler:

Some mafia setups or nightactions could be represented in flowchart, and I've never seen diagrams for the mechanics that befit a wiki. Surely this is mostly a waste of time, but aren't diagrams and graphs something we could provide?

[HorseDetective]

Just as a heads up, I'm more than willing to work on an updated theme based on mafblack for this forum. I've been knocking a few ideas around in photoshop and can post a few.

[zoraster]

What do you think of my queue proposal? Please tell me what about it needs more thought. (That's not angry rhetoric, I mean it earnestly.)

which proposal? there have probably been a dozen or so ideas in this thread.

[Klingoncelt]

Try recruiting older players, if the kiddies aren't interested. Wake brought a few of us over from another site, I'm likely the oldest player here (I've got grandkids.) We love the game.

Those of you with card game versions, take the cards to Xmas dinner at the relatives', get some of the cool aunts & uncles to play a short game. If you're on a non-related messageboard, ask the mod if you can have a little game forum (that's what Wake did.) Once they learn how to play decently enough, send them here.

[esuriospiritus]

I would quit and purge all my posts if anyone in my family but my sister found me here. :X

I have tried recruiting people at board game meets and stuff ... none of them were really interested enough though.

[BROseidon]

Yeah my family is never seeing the shit I post in the non-mafia boards.

[Majiffy]

Some mafia setups or nightactions could be represented in flowchart, and I've never seen diagrams for the mechanics that befit a wiki. Surely this is mostly a waste of time, but aren't diagrams and graphs something we could provide?

Natural Action Resolution, surely.

Yeah my family is never seeing the shit I post in the non-mafia boards.

Something something nut milk

[Cabd]

Something mafiascum could do that would be pretty sweet is to make little "mafia theory flashcards" of sorts with basic tips and tricks for play as each role, as well as a card explaining NAR and stuff, then have them printable for free on our website. Have the ms logo and URL on them, take them to board game clubs etc, as well as anywhere that plays offline mafia.

[BROseidon]

Something mafiascum could do that would be pretty sweet is to make little "mafia theory flashcards" of sorts with basic tips and tricks for play as each role, as well as a card explaining NAR and stuff, then have them printable for free on our website. Have the ms logo and URL on them, take them to board game clubs etc, as well as anywhere that plays offline mafia.

I would be willing to write those.

I also don't trust anyone else not to fuck it up.

[chamber]

Something mafiascum could do that would be pretty sweet is to make little "mafia theory flashcards" of sorts with basic tips and tricks for play as each role, as well as a card explaining NAR and stuff, then have them printable for free on our website. Have the ms logo and URL on them, take them to board game clubs etc, as well as anywhere that plays offline mafia.

I would be willing to write those.

I also don't trust anyone else not to fuck it up.

Try making some example ones.

[Klingoncelt]

I would quit and purge all my posts if anyone in my family but my sister found me here. :X

I have tried recruiting people at board game meets and stuff ... none of them were really interested enough though.

Yeah my family is never seeing the shit I post in the non-mafia boards.

Co-workers then? Farcebook friends?

[Majiffy]

Whats a face book

[Phoenicks]

What do you think of my queue proposal? Please tell me what about it needs more thought. (That's not angry rhetoric, I mean it earnestly.)

which proposal? there have probably been a dozen or so ideas in this thread.

Spoiler:

Loose hosting requirements. Host one game at a time. 24- or 48-hour phases minimum, 5-6 day phases maximum enforced. Sign-up for individual games, like the Theme Park.* Contact individual mods for replacements.

A fast queue only needs to function like queues on other sites. They don't expect games to have huge time requirements, which undercuts almost every reason for host quality control. The main point of the system would be to avoid the fast queue affecting other parts of the site. This means specifying exactly what kinds of games belong in there (mainly the kids of games other sites would run). Other queues could keep their strict modding requirements and enforced waiting, which would keep a barrier up from players who won't play long games from playing long games.

No one here wants to make mafiascum like every other forum. We don't need to. Add a new section that scratches the same itch other websites do, while keeping our normal structure perfectly in tact.

*(Most sites I've played on run on some version of this, even if it means hosts post in a queue that has no limit on number of games in signups. This means hosts host when they're ready, and enthusiasm doesn't drain away in a line. It also reduces the expectations that require strong rules in other queues.)

Something mafiascum could do that would be pretty sweet is to make little "mafia theory flashcards" of sorts with basic tips and tricks for play as each role, as well as a card explaining NAR and stuff, then have them printable for free on our website. Have the ms logo and URL on them, take them to board game clubs etc, as well as anywhere that plays offline mafia.

This could be a great idea.