The Mass Effect thread

[Iecerint]

They're not rumors; it was confirmed back in April. They've just leaked that it's coming with the next multiplayer DLC in late July.

Whether the "fix" will actually fix the endings is yet to be seen.

[Iecerint]

Evidence for laziness/rush-job on Bioware's part

1. Originally, an Illusive Man boss battle filled out the ending on the Citadel, but it was removed because it was too "video-gamey," and they didn't want the Illusive Man to be cheapened into a physical threat. (Sounds like a deficit of creativity IMO.) This addresses the "no boss battle" concern.

2. Mass Effect 3 had already been delayed once (in November 2011), so any subsequent delay requests would be less likely to be granted. This establishes that "things were rushed" is sufficient to explain away lots of problems.

3. At very low levels of EMS, the Destroy option is the only available option. This is evidence against IT, because it doesn't make much sense that the Reapers would allow Shepard to destroy them as the "easiest" option to unlock.

Evidence for IT

1. A preponderance of the evidence is consistent with IT. IMO the hardest to explain away are the "dream trees" behind Shepard in the Marauder Shields sequence and the increase in the number of oily figures during the dream sequences (cf. Rachni Queen's comment in ME1).

2. EDI and Shepard can survive the Destroy ending, suggesting that Starchild did not truthfully represent what was up. Can be explained-away as a rushjob oversight for EDI, but not the Shepard scene.

3. The themes of the series are consistent with Control and Synthesis (e.g., via the Illusive Man and Saren, respectively) being pro-Reaper choices. Can be explained-away using Shepard's Designated Hero status and space magic, but this is bad writing.

[Iecerint]

Could be; I'm ignorant of that.

My point is just that, given that they felt rushed and needed more time (i.e., the lazy/rushed premise), it might have been hard to secure needed time from the higher-ups.

[Iecerint]

People have been speculating that it might be larger and better than we are expecting because the development time has been so large (e.g., comparable to that of LotSB for ME2, which was excellent).

[Iecerint]

You're referring to From Ashes/Javik?

Given all the conversations he has with the rest of the crew, I think they were already integrating him into the game before it was "finished," whatever their claims.

[Iecerint]

I have to correct an error I made earlier -- apparently, contrary to what anti-IT people have told me in the past, Destroy is ONLY the low-EMS option if the Collector Base was destroyed. If the Collector Base was preserved, then Control is the low-EMS option. I think this creates logical problems of its own, but it's no longer the anti-IT red flag it would otherwise be.

Kasumi shows up in one cutscene in place of Legion if she's around.

Regardless, it took time to make. Can you really see anyone saying "OK, we have to make a secret ending that's totally awesome and will blow people's minds, but first, let's make a new squadmate and mission to go along with him."?

They claimed From Ashes was made in between the actual game going on disc and it being sold. I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is, why the hell were they working on that and not Indoctrination Theory?

I'm pretty sure it is false. For example, Javik's content did not have special treatment in the leaked November 2011 script. (EDIT: I acknowledge has's point, though, which shows that this alone isn't 100%.)

Dragon Age 2 also had an "integrated" Day 1 DLC squadmate who came free with the collector's edition (Sebastian). Bioware admitted that they had "always" intended to have a DLC squadmate. The fallout was unpleasant (albeit dwarfed by other complaints about Dragon Age 2), which is probably why they changed their explanation for Javik. At least some of Javik's files are on-disc, too.

I agree that this has gone bad for Bioware, but in terms of what that has to do with IT, it might be a case of hindsight being 20/20. I doubt they predicted fan backlash of the sort that birthed the Retake movement.

[Iecerint]

I might add...

We know for a fact that DA2 was designed to have a "DAO:Awakening"-style Act 4 added to complete the narrative; that's why it seems to end so abruptly. So it's not even unprecedented for Bioware to pull a move like this.

(No, I don't think EC will be on the level of Awakening.)

[Iecerint]

It looks like Bioware has past used an IT-like plot device in one of the Neverwinter Nights expansions (which I have not played). Apparently, the villains brainwash the hero into believing that the world has been saved. If the player accepts this version of events, the credits roll and the game ends. The player can reveal the illusion by having high Wisdom or by doing some kind of conversation choice thing. This leads to a "hidden" final boss fight.

[Iecerint]

It looks like Bioware has past used an IT-like plot device in one of the Neverwinter Nights expansions (which I have not played). Apparently, the villains brainwash the hero into believing that the world has been saved. If the player accepts this version of events, the credits roll and the game ends. The player can reveal the illusion by having high Wisdom or by doing some kind of conversation choice thing. This leads to a "hidden" final boss fight.

[Iecerint]

HARBINGERRRRRR

That was probably on disc though, right?

Yeah, but it was also like 10 years ago, before the days of DLC, when expansions were all big, lovely things like, well, Dawnstar.

I REALLY want to hear Harbinger play his

This hurts you

files.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Mass-E ... 41436.html

I'm inclined to believe the ending was intentional and that the plan was to make everyone pay for the "real" ending, and the only reason they didn't follow through was because the reaction to the ending was so negative they needed to do something to not make everyone hate the company forever.

DA2's "Act 4" wasn't supposed to be free, either, but that doesn't mean it wasn't always (originally) planned.

Last night I had a nightmare that the entire EC DLC consisted of Shepard inexplicitly appearing in the Engineering Bay talking to Engineer Donnelly, who patched the plotholes in infodump style ("We have turian food stored in the shuttle bay").

[Iecerint]

Anka is saying that the game as-is is incomplete given IT (regardless of whether the writing makes no sense without it).

I'd like the Control/Synthesis endings to exist largely as-is, maybe with a slideshow to show what happens to everyone, with IT expansion (beyond the breath scene) for the Destroy ending.

[Iecerint]

Yeah, I don't give two shits whether it makes more sense or not. If the IT turns out to be true in the Extended Cut, then Bioware fails and needs to get its shit together before I ever buy another game from them again.

I do not understand why IT being true is uniquely the case where Bioware fails and needs to get its shit together.

[Iecerint]

Best theory I've heard is EA wanted the 'true ending' to be paid DLC, but this has backfired too far for that to be acceptable.

[Iecerint]

Does anyone here play MP? I just got the platinum today, so I need different excuses for continuing to grind out weapons and such.

[Iecerint]

I have the PS3 version.

[Iecerint]

Yeah. I played ME1 on my little brother's 360 a long time ago, but I've always had a PS3...

I think I just lose Kirrahe, Shirala, and Verner.

[Iecerint]

I think someone said on twitter that the EC won't clarify IT one way or the other. It will be "left up to the player."

I will be upset if it isn't at least implied to have been the case for players who choose Destroy.

[Iecerint]

I wonder if Engineer Donnelly will say "We have lots of dextro-amino food stored" after all.

[Iecerint]

I wouldn't describe the original ME3 ending as "artsy-fartsy" at all, except in the context of the "artistic integrity" mini-meme.

[Iecerint]

ONE DAY MORE.

[Iecerint]

I think that Death Of The Author is A-OK.

[Iecerint]

Exposure to Reaper technology is a necessary (and possibly sufficient?) precondition for indoctrination.

GUYS IT IS OUT NOW. Or in the next few hours.

[Iecerint]

also object rho is reaper tech so that's out the question

you could even go back to ME2 with the reaper iff

you were inside the fucking reaper

Yes, all of these things are the basis of IT.

[Iecerint]

I was born in London.

[Iecerint]

I watched the new thing and the Destroy ending on Youtube.

Spoiler:

The former is a significant annoyance, but at least we get to see Starchild speak in Reaper-voice. The scene at the end at least provides a modicum of closure.

Still no explanation of how Garrus and Tali will survive.

[Iecerint]

What's the new ending? Refusal results in the reapers nomming everyone?

Spoiler:

Yes. It shows the information hologram Liara made in the next cycle saying that they were unable to defeat the Reapers, and it tries to encourage those seeing it "not to make the same mistakes we did."

[Iecerint]

If I'd gotten the new ending originally, I probably would've been happy with it. However, since I've had months and months to get excited about IT and such, I'm mildly disappointed. The new ending apparently retcons some IT evidence (e.g., Hackett saying no one made it to the beam).

I still think Control and especially Synthesis are out of left-field with the rest of the writing, though.

I also think the new ending is kind of petty, though I'm glad it exists.

[Iecerint]

I think someone said that it might be implied that

Spoiler:

the SUBSEQUENT cycle sees Liara's beacon and defeats the Reapers.

I didn't see that scene on the youtube video, though.

[Iecerint]

I like the Old Lady ending MUCH better than the Old Man ending.

[Iecerint]

I think Omega is supposed to be the next DLC. There was originally some kind of "Vigilante" companion who joined you during it, but we'll have to see....

Leviathan looks neat. Maybe you can fight Harby while trying to protect it.

[Iecerint]

Lufia 2 was so fun!

[Iecerint]

I cried when my Renegade Shepard shot Mordin.

[Iecerint]

I've never heard someone tear up so much about a fucking video game. It'll be okay Umbrage. Life will continue on.

VP Baltar I am surprised at you.

[Iecerint]

VIDEO GAMES ARE SRS BZNZ.

[Iecerint]

I hope they release a re-developed version of ME1 someday. It seems like the work necessary to shoehorn it into the new engines would be relatively low, and it would avoid the licensing problems (as I understand it) that keep it from being released on PS3.

[Iecerint]

The reworking would just be because they can't port ME1 without changing the engine due to their contract with Microsoft.

[Iecerint]

Semi-off-topic: Does anyone know what's up with the Enhanced Edition of Baldur's Gate? It's supposed to come out, like, now, but there's been no news since May.

[Iecerint]

I do not understand why you think that.

Do you have the same attitude toward reactions to TV/movies/books?

[Iecerint]

BSG had such an awful ending. It had a pretty bad season 3 and 4, really.

[Iecerint]

The only thing I liked about seasons 3 and 4 were when the TOTALLY AWESOME Billy replacement lady threw Callie out of an airlock.

Then, in typical BSG season 3/4 fashion, we were supposed to judge her harshly for her heroic act.

[Iecerint]

The writers have said that they "were going for an Inception ending."

^^~

[Iecerint]

ME2 was fantastic.

[Iecerint]

I think ME2 had the best cast. It's really impressive to me that so many characters got such compelling development.

People complain about its role in the ME trilogy metaplot (i.e., that it doesn't really advance it), but I think that's an ill-conceived complaint.

[Iecerint]

KOTOR2 was by Obsidian IIRC.

[Iecerint]

I like that EDI gets that monologue.

[Iecerint]

I thought the concept seemed neat.

[Iecerint]

Is it an actual Reaper doing the indoctrination at the mining colony in ME1? I only played that once, and long long ago on my little brother's XBox360.

I think (hope?) that Bioware will be sensitive to the ending situation.

[Iecerint]

I don't understand. I don't think anyone is doing that?

[Iecerint]

IGN says that Leviathan will create an "additional rift" in the ending (???).

[Iecerint]

Renegade Interrupts don't affect your ability to choose paragon options. The mechanic is like this

Points Obtained / Total Points Possible (of whichever type) = X%

For each choice, X% has to be above n% for the choice to be available.

This is why players who do all the side-quests can usually make both Paragon and Renegade choices for all but the most strenuous cases (i.e., Samara/Morinth, Jack/Miranda, Tali/Legion).

I'd recommend re-playing at least the ending. Having Tali and Legion both alive opens up more options in ME3, not to mention that Tali is playable in ME3. To save Tali, send Mordin to escort back the colonists and take Tali and maybe Jack to the last battle.

Also, if Wrex is alive, keep Maelon's research, but destroy it if he's dead. Though this does prevent you from getting a really sad scene in ME3.

[Iecerint]

oic

[Iecerint]

Stop using Thane, get Grunt instead. He can soak up way more damage, particularly if Miranda's in the party, and on insanity concussion shot > pull/throw (forget which Thane has) for crowd control. Zaeed is an alright substitute if you want a sniper instead.

Thane is broken if you have the Incisor.

[Iecerint]

I did a Sentinel insanity run on ME2 and an Infiltrator insanity run in ME3.

ME2 Hard Bits

Final Battle (i.e., seeker swarms scenario)
(Horizon's not too bad if you have ALL the possible upgrades purchased)

ME3 Hard Bits

lolReaperBattle, until I looked up how to not die in one hit on Youtube
Final battle. 6 Brutes/4 Banshees or whatever is brutal.

[Iecerint]

Oh. And Marauder Shields, obviously. But he's been patched out.

I found a cute glitch on Youtube where you can sneak around his rock and shoot him in the back.

[Iecerint]

WHERE'S MY FISH? FUCKING ALLIANCE ASSHOLES STOLE MY FISH!

You can get them back if you invited Kelly to your cabin in ME2 and she survived.

[Iecerint]

Kelly Chambers, the yeoman from ME2.

[Iecerint]

The Brit isn't annoying! She has lesbian adventures with FemShep.

The Brit probably has more depth than Kelly, but Kelly also has lesbian adventures with FemShep.

[Iecerint]

I think all Kelly gets is one extra scene or two beyond her original dialogue loop. If you keep talking to her after missions, she'll eventually offer to feed your fish for you, and then Shepard can invite her to his/her cabin for implied fun times. You can also call her up to "play" post-game if you didn't romance anyone else and got the fun times with her (i.e., a second ME2 romance will overwrite the Kelly romance).

She carries over to ME3, too, apparently -- she gives you a hug if you tell her you forgive her and to change her name.

[Iecerint]

And there's no self-destruct program in Eva that deletes all the data although it's already been shown that happens in ME. And EDI now wants to go out in combat and alter her programming, even though no part of her programming would be designed to do either of those things, because this is CERBERUS and they're not STUPID, they wanted to do that to SHEPARD, why wouldn't they put that control chip in EDI?

They did put one in her. Joker has magical skills and freed her.

Sentinels suck in ME3, but they're EXCELLENT in ME2.

[Iecerint]

Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova -> Charge -> Nova ->

[Iecerint]

Nova is AOE from your position that causes damage proportional to your shields and drains your shields. It doesn't require a timer other than shields being non-zero.

Charge moves you to the position of an enemy and restores your shields a little.

So long as you keep your timer down, you can basically charge->nova with impunity. The problem is when a team-mate kills the enemy you were going to Charge onto, because any delay in your charge->nova tree leaves you very vulnerable.

Glass cannon fun.

[Iecerint]

Nova has some invincibility frames, and it does AoE damage. You can also pretend to be Captain Falcon when you are doing it if you want to.

[Iecerint]

Charge -> Shotgun is just fine if you Charge'd a solitary guy, though, since the Nova would kill the solitary guy and leave you shield-less, which is risky.

[Iecerint]

Actually, if CoD is any indication, grinding in a shooter can be pretty popular. I agree with the server situation. It's an embarrassment. I think the classes are pretty well balanced with some salient exceptions (e.g., Salarian Infiltrator). I played before the Earth expansion, though, so maybe those new classes are unbalanced.

[Iecerint]

Umbrage, it's recommended that you try saving up from PSPs, if you're not doing so already. This will increase the odds that you pick up fancy things rather than getting lots of mediocre stuff that'll never be used in the long run.

[Iecerint]

No, I get more XP bonuses for the classes I've unlocked everything for.

You can always promote.

[Iecerint]

Leviathan comes out tomorrow. :X

[Iecerint]

I think TIM was trying to pin their deaths on Shepard.

[Iecerint]

No idea, but I think I remember Udina telling VS something along those lines around then.

I think that event was poorly-handled, too. Udina's random indoctrination/corruption was the worst part of it, IMO. Fits with your "renegades suck; idealists win" critique of the series.

[Iecerint]

Some of the stuff Hepler's written has been good. I think people give her a hard time because she's fat and Anders-with-a-demon has a different characterization.

[Iecerint]

I think From Ashes is worth it, but it's better to do it early in the game. I've heard that Leviathan is recommended if you don't already know the ending because it contextualizes Starchild a bit, but people are ambivalent otherwise.

I'm really excited for Umbrage's outrage at DA2.

[Iecerint]

Bummer. Your outrage will be muted.

I'm excited for the Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition release.

[Iecerint]

Kelly's at the docks/refugee annex/whatever. She dies unless you tell her to change her name. I didn't even know it was possible to miss Liara's next cycle video.

[Iecerint]

I liked the two RC games that I played.

[Iecerint]

The Child was made by the Leviathans, though. He no longer has the same mystique.

[Iecerint]

I think Umbrage is right as far as the Leviathan DLC went. People complained that Starchild came out of nowhere. With the Leviathan DLC, this is no longer the case. I think the Leviathans were written to provide context for him.

[Iecerint]

Well, he becomes a Chekhov's Gun instead of a Deus Ex Machina. I've never played the DLC, so I can't vouch for how well they pulled it off.

[Iecerint]

He's the mechanism by which the conflict is resolved.

[Iecerint]

I hope they're not too OP. No one will use them if they're too OP.

[Iecerint]

People thought Reapers were OP back when I played MP.

[Iecerint]

Does Harbinger ever show up?

[Iecerint]

I was an Engineer at first, so I just did like pet -> overloadoverloadoverloadoverloadoverload.

Then I switched to Vanguard, and everything was easy except for maybe Banshees.

[Iecerint]

I liked killing everything to hog points.

If you charge carefully, you can do Banshees without getting grab-killed. Or you used to be able to. But I would screw up maybe every third Banshee.

[Iecerint]

That is from the ancient days of March. Gosh.

[Iecerint]

Poor Ashley.

[Iecerint]

Marksman is her claim-to-fame.

[Iecerint]

I played through with her once to unlock Marksman and whatever her other ability was.

[Iecerint]

Overlord was kinda iffy IMO.

[Iecerint]

I like renefem a lot. But I also like parafem better than paradude, so it's hard to say how to split it.

Renefem > Parafem > Renedude > Paradude.

The female VA is better. You get used to it, though.

[Iecerint]

I guess the saving grace of renedude is that you can have gay seks and red eyes at the same time.

[Iecerint]

Yeah, you're right. Renefem is still superior.

Do you even get a sexy scene with the Kelly romance, though? I dunno if it counts if you don't get a montage of Shepard having gay sex with whomever with her pants on.

[Iecerint]

I think earthborns get paragon penalties, though, so that approach might be bad for power-gaming.

[Iecerint]

eh. that's really only a problem in ME1, and it's easily overcome. Of course you might not want your saintly Shepard to have run with gangs in the past, but it's not a major issue. Even if you're going for 100% morality, it's easy enough if you're careful.

Yeah. It's noticeable in ME2 if you don't load a ME file, though (as I always did, since I was playing on the PS3).

[Iecerint]

Mordin can only survive if

both Wrex and Eve are dead

.

[Iecerint]

I think a fanservice DLC is a nice way to end the trilogy.

[Iecerint]

Oh, I would NEVER pay $15 for it. Fuck that.

[Iecerint]

My boyfriend is playing the original Mass Effect and he keeps dying over and over. He's a biotic. How can he break the game so that I won't have to listen to him bitch anymore?

[Iecerint]

It looks like he was dying because he hadn't figured out using medigel or something.

[Iecerint]

He always plays mage or mage-esque, so he's a biotic. But I've heard that biotics are also kinda broken in ME1.

[Iecerint]

Idk, I think I got it from her after the scene where she was drunk.

[Iecerint]

I guess it doesn't matter anyway but still.

Wish there was like a super ending where Shepard actually lives but whatever.

...You're aware that there IS such an ending, right?

[Iecerint]

I think it's a dumb ending absent IT, but it's still there, SO.

[Iecerint]

I think Adept was on the weak side in ME2/3 after being OP in ME1? I know for sure that they were weak in ME2 because of how armor and such interacted with your abilities.

I did ME3 Insanity as Infiltrator and only had to try a handful of segments over a few times -- the worst being the very last hold-out and, of course, Marauder Shields RIP.

[Iecerint]

I still need to do a "Mordin lives" playthrough. I've never seen his goodbye hologram on Earth.

[Iecerint]

Ah, I've never played the ME3 DLC.

[Iecerint]

You get a hologram of any living party member. Mordin

can only survive Tuchanka if Wrex and Eve are dead

.

[Iecerint]

But Mordin is awesome.

Surely you can get the best ending without MP if you use the DLC?

[Iecerint]

My favorite playthrough of Suikoden II was a "minimal recruitment" playthrough. It made some of the story battles a bit challenging. ^_^

[Iecerint]

I thought about trying that once, but it seems like you have to farm Yuna's aeon's a lot. Seems tedious.

No-XP FF8 and FF9 playthroughs were super fun, though. In FF9 it doubles as a "number maximizer" playthrough because at endgame you can collect all the "+stat on level up" items and becomes gods.

[Iecerint]

You could do it on the PS3. The PS4 version isn't out until later this year, anyway.

I did a little bit of a No Sphere Grid game, but I died like 5 times on the boss fight with just Tidus and Wakka underwater somewhat early on and decided it wasn't worth it.

Don't you have to kill like 9999 enemies with each Aeon or something?