NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #5227 (isolation #600) » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:30 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 2, Aegor wrote:nor are your role PMs misleading in any way

@Beast - :wink:

Let's watch the mod wriggle at Nero's question though.
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Post Post #5255 (isolation #601) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:27 am

Post by Thor665 »

Beast's new claim is so bad he's kind of selling me.

Unvote: Beast
Vote: Reinoe


That removes Beast from the unannounced L-1 that Iz put him at.
This also places Reinoe at L-1.

If Reinoe is scum I would like to suggest a Vig could plant a bullet in Iz's face as an idea.
Of course, there are enough lurksacks you can barely shoot wrong.
Of course there are enough lurksacks you'd better start being amazing to convince me you're not an SK if you ever do claim Vig.
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Post Post #5256 (isolation #602) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:29 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5175, Aegor wrote:Flubbernugget is V/LA indefinitely

As another easy hint to said Vig.
I mean, seriously.
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Post Post #5262 (isolation #603) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:04 am

Post by Thor665 »

@Reinoe - you can get that link if you want to go track it down, one of AP's hydras even has it as a sig link.

I honestly don't care enough to do the leg work for you.
I do not find the two situations similar - if that's your angle.

@GM - why does Reinoe not claiming to have a result on Beast matter at all?
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Post Post #5265 (isolation #604) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:05 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5263, goodmorning wrote:Lynching beast tells us more than lynching reinoe does. Lynching beast tells us about both beast and reinoe. Lynching reinoe only tells us about reinoe.

Lynching Reinoe also tells us about both of them - their claims are incompatible and either a Mafia or Cop flip from Reinoe proves Beast is lying. A Wolf flip from Reinoe also tells us about Beast, albeit in a less assured way - though that flip would tend to ensure that wolves would be gunning for him so, in a way, it's a settlement of the Beast question regardless, and even so it would tell us something about how Aegor decided to handle role info - which would inform everyone with similarly worded roles more info as well.

Are you advocating a Beast lynch just based on the info differential?
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Post Post #5267 (isolation #605) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:06 am

Post by Thor665 »

Actually, I guess a Mafia flip wouldn't prove Beast as lying...though it would mark Beast for death from any Mafia faction worth a damn.
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Post Post #5269 (isolation #606) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:21 am

Post by Thor665 »

Does Reinoe's claim make 'sense' to you?
Can you outline why Beast's, specifically, lacks sense?
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Post Post #5275 (isolation #607) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:20 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5271, reinoe wrote:Why do you think someone with an illness in the family and going on v/la in all their games should be vigged?

Actually I think they should replace out - but that is neither here nor there - he was a non-entity prior to the v/la.

In post 5273, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5255, Thor665 wrote:Beast's new claim is so bad he's kind of selling me.

Are you saying that you don't think scum would change their claim like that?

Yes.
Just as paranoia is a town tell, I find sturdy stubborness to be a scum tell.

In post 5273, Nero Cain wrote:Iz is good but I'd also be fine with bullets for GM.

Yes.
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Post Post #5279 (isolation #608) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:11 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5277, goodmorning wrote:I wish DGB were here to slap some sense into you.

If DGB where here I would never have joined the game. It got too personal for my taste last time we played together.
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Post Post #5355 (isolation #609) » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:47 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5342, Izariael wrote:There's no way gm was tunneling that hard unless something was up with him. No way in hell.

GM was tunneling on me Day 1.
I claimed a jail on GM Day 2.

So what info do you think GM had exactly?

I'm also sorta v/la till Saturday, so this post functionally works as a prod dodge - but I'll manage some proactive thoughts then.

Also;

I am confirmed not Werewolf at this stage - discuss.
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Post Post #5406 (isolation #610) » Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:22 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I mildly lean Boon as Mafia right now.

Vote: Josh_B


What's up with you again?
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Post Post #5411 (isolation #611) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:20 am

Post by Thor665 »

I am amazingly neutral on the whole Axle v. Nero thing - and that sucker feels like it has been going on for days.

Could both of you push your second top scumspect for a while and see if it's more exciting?
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Post Post #5416 (isolation #612) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:12 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5412, AxleGreaser wrote:I suppose I could push you if I really wanted exciting, but Id prefer to push, vote and lynch my best most likely to flip scum suspect.

I'd prefer you to push anything that will actually get reactions instead of boring wall #87 with Nero that nobody is reading and nobody cares about.
If your goal is to blend in and you are scum - this is good play.
Otherwise it sucks.

In post 5412, AxleGreaser wrote:As i recall,
You havent liked (voted) my push on Josh B, how come today?

Honestly I just forgot what is up with that slot - was there a reason I was clearing it earlier?
I can't describe anything he's done that stuck out really.
Is he the BP claim? Is that why I was ignoring him - maybe that's it.
If it is I think the slot is town, but screw him, he hasn't posted for 13 days, he should show up and say stuff and stop coasting, maybe I'll rage lynch him, or at least get the mod to replace him.

@Mod - prod Josh_B please? Quite frankly I would rathe request a force replace at this juncture - this is gakky and silly that he has gone nearly two weeks with nothing regardless that there was a night phase in there.
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Post Post #5418 (isolation #613) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:01 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I thought maybe Josh did. Okay, that reminds me why I haven't run a train on you.
Why didn't I run a train on Josh yet?
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Post Post #5419 (isolation #614) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:08 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Okay, it was because of Garmr. I did kind of like Garmr.

My request to the mod very much holds though - this is BullSmurf as far as activity from that slot. The only people less active than him are dead ones.

@Boon - I want to lynch maybe Iz or Flubber. Discuss.
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Post Post #5421 (isolation #615) » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:08 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Who are your top town and scum pools right now? Like a handful you don't wish to lynch and a handful you do?
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Post Post #5448 (isolation #616) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:04 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5426, Flubbernugget wrote:I ask everyone again why they are town reading thor.

Well, I'm provably not one scum team and am otherwise being aggressively pro-town.

What's the scum case on me? Is there one? I can't remember you making one. I'm going to decide there isn't one and use this as an example of why you are scum.
Whassup?

@Mod - V/la - 12/15-12/19


Sorry about this. My work is on hiatus for the holidays though, so I'm around for the next few weeks quite comfortably.
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Post Post #5498 (isolation #617) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:23 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5454, Flubbernugget wrote:So you can't back your read up.

VOTE: boons

Says the guy who is dodging explaining why he was voting me...what the hell is this?

In post 5481, Slandaar wrote:The two most active players currently are both town and trying to lynch each other... ughh.

This has become a mild pet-peeve scumtell for me.
Do me a favor and show me a link to you, as town, typing out frustration sound effects please.

Like an 'ughh' or a 'argggh' or something very similar.

I am dead serious right now.
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Post Post #5500 (isolation #618) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:14 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5499, Nero Cain wrote:TBF, he did. He was sheeping/shadowing IZ's "reasoning" that GM had night action information that you were scum. Not that that's anymore townie than not explaining but ya know, lets be factually correct here.

I asked him to explain how that worked - he dodged doing that.

Po-tay-to po-tah-to.
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Post Post #5502 (isolation #619) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:37 am

Post by Thor665 »

Why are you so fired on Iz? Between Iz/Flub. I have bad vibes from both but with multi-ball it's really awkward to try to read those sorts of interactions to spot a town/scum dichotemy that I would expect in asingle-ball. What's twigging you to Iz specifically?

In a magical world I'd like them both dead, but with multi-ball I don't feel as confident championing a lynch 'just to see' at this stage.
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Post Post #5508 (isolation #620) » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:29 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5504, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 5500, Thor665 wrote:
In post 5499, Nero Cain wrote:TBF, he did. He was sheeping/shadowing IZ's "reasoning" that GM had night action information that you were scum. Not that that's anymore townie than not explaining but ya know, lets be factually correct here.

I asked him to explain how that worked - he dodged doing that.

Po-tay-to po-tah-to.


When a pr has an awkward read on someone it's usually a crumb or soft guilty. I've already said this and I don't understand why I even had to say it the first time.

If GM had been a cop or if GM had not random tunnel derped me *Day 1* then I would understand your logic.
I do not understand your logic.
You have still failed to explain it here.
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Post Post #5512 (isolation #621) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:07 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5510, Shiro wrote:Also I cannot see Iz can someone explain please?

For me it's all wagon placement.
Do you actually town read him or are you just null?
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Post Post #5514 (isolation #622) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:52 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5513, Flubbernugget wrote:Had you have been cleared she would have dropped.

I will agree with that, but 'lack of clear' is VASTLY different than 'confirmation of suspicion'.
Also, she's a tracker, she could never clear me.

In post 5513, Flubbernugget wrote:You're also convinently ignoring the fact that Muffin verbally ripped you a new Smurfhole and then flipped town.

I wasn't ignoring this, I was just unaware it was part of your case.
So you're saying Muffin's case on me held water? What did you like about his case on me?

In post 5513, Flubbernugget wrote:Also you tried arguing with him using the same semantic bullSmurf you mislynched Pere with.

Which is also the same semantic stuff I used to correctly choose between Reinoe and Beast.
Giving me a, what, 50% accuracy with it? Which is actually above random chance, making it, apparently, a good technique.
And also ignores that Pere was playing so bad that he flat out admitted this and self-voted, so even if I was 'wrong' it wasn't like I was making stuff up, even by Pere's own admission.
This seems like just an empty attack tacked onto your post.

I'd mostly like to hear further thoughts on the GM and Muffin points - I feel like we're getting somewhere now.
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Post Post #5515 (isolation #623) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:54 am

Post by Thor665 »

Actually did Pere self vote? I forget - I know he endorsed his own lynch though, which is almost as terrible.
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Post Post #5520 (isolation #624) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:12 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5516, Shiro wrote:If say she got a move from you at n2, it would be quite inciminating

I would agree - but nothing present in thread supports that hypothesis, so...do you think we should debate something that has no evidence supporting it happened?

I found your answer regarding Iz unclear - what is your current read on him?

In post 5518, AxleGreaser wrote:Other than frustration (not playing) do you have reasons for voting Josh_B.
(I had/have reasons but theye didnt seem to fly last time i ran with them...)
whats up?

You have stated my reasons pretty functionally.
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Post Post #5525 (isolation #625) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:30 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5521, Flubbernugget wrote:What do you think gm's motivation was behind her tunnel on you?

Bad play - I said that in thread a number of times.
Even her own explanation started and ended at 'gut'.
She even sat there during a phase when we had at least 1 confirmed scum between two players, called them both scum, and kept voting me - she was playing terribly.

In post 5521, Flubbernugget wrote:I like that muffin wouldn't play lawyer with you and called you out on it.

So...basically you like that he was argumentative without backing up his case and that translates to it being a good case simply because he was town aligned?
GM was also town aligned - was her case on me good also post awareness of that fact?
This is flim-flam.

In post 5521, Flubbernugget wrote:And will you stop with these Smurfing numbers because you had a 1/2 chance of lynching scum between that cc so whatever tactics you want to say you're using to scumhunt don't hold water with that lynch.

Some confirmed town players were unable to manage what I did, and you're acting like they had cases worth listening to - so I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.
I'm still not sure, honestly.

In post 5523, Shiro wrote:
In post 5520, Thor665 wrote:I would agree - but nothing present in thread supports that hypothesis, so...do you think we should debate something that has no evidence supporting it happened?


Do you see me debating that it is worth lynching you ? Do you see my vote being place on you screaming "guys lynch thor"? I believe the answer it is pretty self explanatory.

You're the one who brought it up, not me.
Why bring it up if you had no belief in it and no desire to push it?
Serious question.
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Post Post #5533 (isolation #626) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:49 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5526, Shiro wrote:Cause you said there was no way for her to ever clear you.

Kinda didn't want to just leave it to that so I added the fact that she could have however found incriminating stuff after day 2 thus coninuing pushing you. It not something I want to push but a consideration since she parked her vote on you even though lynching you was impossible. So I expressed so.

:neutral:

So because I said there was no way for her to clear me, you decided to point out that there was a way she could have found me suspicious even though you had no desire to argue that this situation had occurred in any way at all.

I fail to follow the logic here still.

In post 5527, Flubbernugget wrote:The whole argument with Muffin was for you to not use wordplay as a case.

How was that his case at all?

In post 5528, AxleGreaser wrote:
@Thor
. Feel free to instead argue that your push on Shiro and the reasons for it were actually good
and
alignment indicative.

Why would I want to do that?
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Post Post #5535 (isolation #627) » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:13 pm

Post by Thor665 »

If I wished to argue that I never would have unvoted Shiro.
I unvoted Shiro.
Stop wasting my time.
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Post Post #5551 (isolation #628) » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:52 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5548, Pine wrote:Salutations

I'll do some catch up, will not be reading the whole thread

What do I need to know

I'd say look at the first post for the flips and then iso the proven scum and then move forward from there. Everthing else you can pick up via specific questions.
So what are your reads after doing that?
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Post Post #5553 (isolation #629) » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:01 pm

Post by Thor665 »

That is L-3 on Pine.
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Post Post #5555 (isolation #630) » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:37 am

Post by Thor665 »

Oh...okay.

That is 18.5 hours remaining for the day.
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Post Post #5557 (isolation #631) » Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:22 am

Post by Thor665 »

What are your thoughts thus far?
Have you looked at the flipped scum yet?
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Post Post #5559 (isolation #632) » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:16 am

Post by Thor665 »

I look forward to that, and considering how eerily total silent the rest of the game went I suppose everyone else is as well.
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Post Post #5561 (isolation #633) » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:30 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Unofficial VC

[2]
Izariael:
Nero Cain, Slandaar
[3]
Pine:
Thor665, Shiro, AxleGreaser
[1]
Nero Cain:
Boonskiies,
[1]
Boonskiies:
Flubbernugget
[1]
Thor665:
Izariael


[2]
Not Voting:
Pine, T S O

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 4 deadline:
(expired on 2014-12-28 05:24:51)

I do find the lack of activity bothersome, albeit colored somewhat by Christmas.

@Mod - by-the-by, can we get a 1-3 day extension for Christmas? At the very least I am expecting basically everyone to declare (or not, but behaving as if) they are v/la for Eve and Christmas Day so that's functionally dead time to the game, y'know?


Flubb's current vote is very useless - I can't even describe his Boon push right now.
Boon's vote, with Axel's move, has become useless. He needs to start selling or move.
I actually am rather okay with Nero and Slandaar's current vote, but will admit that I favor a Flubb lynch over an Iz lynch.
Is TSO even in this game?
Pine needs to catch up and offer some thoughts.
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Post Post #5562 (isolation #634) » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:36 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Random observation - Iz and Script don't look like buddies to me.
Discuss.
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Post Post #5571 (isolation #635) » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:42 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5564, Slandaar wrote: TSO must be due replacement, Iz must be due something too, Pineage needs to post something of worth.

What is your current read on those three slots?

In post 5565, Shiro wrote:I do not remember any significant interaction between them to point anywhere. Why do you think so ?

Have you ISOed Script and looked at his interactions with Iz?

In post 5566, Nero Cain wrote:I mean how can you guys actually think Axle is not mafia after his rubbish of a "reason" for not wanting to lynch Ren?

There was a period of time I was against lynching Reinoe also - being wrong is part of being town. What about the reason specifically says scum intent to you? Also, does this mean you're clearing him of being Wolf/Mafia whichever Reinoe wasn't?
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Post Post #5575 (isolation #636) » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:44 pm

Post by Thor665 »

@Boon - how do you feel about my two expressed thoughts as regards Iz;

1. That I don't see him as scum with Scripten.
2. That I would prefer a Flubber lynch today of the pair.
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Post Post #5578 (isolation #637) » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:19 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5577, Nero Cain wrote:You mean other than the fact that he's blatantly trying to lynch one faction over the other? And his reason for doing so is quite silly. He's worried that Beast will be seen as town and not shot at night. That looks like a scum whine to me. I think the only argument you could make is that he wouldn't do something so obviously scummy. Is that what you think? What do you think is the town motivation here?

I wasn't aware that he was blatantly trying to lynch one faction over the other - which faction is he focused on?
I don't follow the Beast complaint.
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Post Post #5591 (isolation #638) » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:09 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5581, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5578, Thor665 wrote:I wasn't aware that he was blatantly trying to lynch one faction over the other - which faction is he focused on?

He wants to lynch wolves.

So you agree with me, then, that he is fairly clearly not a Werewolf - so you really wish to lynch someone who is 50% cleared at this stage?

In post 5589, Slandaar wrote:
In post 5571, Thor665 wrote:What is your current read on those three slots?

Do you really need me to answer this?

Yes.

Also, your opinion on my Iz = not Wolf thing would be nice as well. Your connection to the game is starting to feel very tenuous. I do not like it.
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Post Post #5593 (isolation #639) » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:49 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5592, Flubbernugget wrote:Recent complete games show garmr as playing to his town meta here.

Expand on this please?
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Post Post #5595 (isolation #640) » Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:23 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5594, AxleGreaser wrote:Exactly how does someone so sure they caught so many scum.. and not just making stuff up. Decide to replace out?

:neutral:
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Post Post #5598 (isolation #641) » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:48 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5596, Slandaar wrote:
In post 5591, Thor665 wrote:Yes.

T/S/S in that order.

I assume you have obtained something useful from this?

Oh dear gawd, I'm sorry - is asking you to express your reads troublesome? Very shocking, so sorry - didn't realize that was a faux pas in the game of mafia...which is...y'know, based on reads. Crazy talk, just me, sorry.

Why do you scum read Pine?

In post 5596, Slandaar wrote:My connection to the game doesn't really exist currently as I don't have the time. I have tried to keep somewhat active though. Dislike it, but what has it got to do with anything?

Well...it has to do with the game - another crazy thought. Why the hell is that remotely unexpected to you? Of *course* I don't like it when someone playing the game is disconnected from it - derp?

In post 5597, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5595, Thor665 wrote:
In post 5594, AxleGreaser wrote:Exactly how does someone so sure they caught so many scum.. and not just making stuff up. Decide to replace out?

:neutral:


no idea what you are neutral about...

You find that to be a valid and fair tell?
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Post Post #5611 (isolation #642) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:19 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5600, AxleGreaser wrote:I found his state of mind to be inconsistent with someone who claims to have just caught 3 scum.

So why are you voting him?

1. So is your argument based on the idea he was scum, was not having fun, and replaced out only for that? Because my perception was it was an availability based replace out, not an interest based replace out - no?

2. Why do I do anything? I will admit I've been selling Flubber quite a bit while voting Pine. Really that's up to you to interpret, because I see no need to explain it beyond admission of the reality in front of you.
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Post Post #5629 (isolation #643) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:05 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5618, Nero Cain wrote::igmeou: <----my face after learning that DGB replaced into a game with hoods after making a big fuss about games with hoods.

Eh, she also replaced into a game with me after we agreed to sort of avoid each other. I'm guessing she didn't pay any attention to anything.

In post 5626, Pine wrote:I've been watching what's going on lately, though. Trying to view this as an outsider, but everyone's so entrenched it's hard to read anything decent.

How is your reading going? I'd like an update on status and any thoughts gained thus far from what you have read. We're about to lynch you out of boredom here - that's kind of sad for us but shocking shameful for you.

In post 5627, Slandaar wrote:Garmr had a contradiction in his mentality where he was acting survivalistic but then decided to act like he isn't.

What was that? I don't recall it at all.
Apologies in advance for asking you something that (maybe?) you already stated.
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Post Post #5631 (isolation #644) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:10 am

Post by Thor665 »

So you knew it was neighborhoods and knew I was in the game and made a choice to replace in regardless to play with a gamestyle you don't like and a player you consider absolutely terrible and anti-town?
Okay.
Why?
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Post Post #5634 (isolation #645) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:20 am

Post by Thor665 »

So what did you pay attention to? Do you already have some reads and/or opinions to offer?
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Post Post #5638 (isolation #646) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:25 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5637, Pine wrote:There's less utility in reading a backlog than you think. By now, people have entrenched opinions. Scum can often be secure in a Townread, Town can often be screwed due to confirmation bias. The replacement's role is to look at things with new eyes, and that isn't helped if I rehash the old disputes and draw similar conclusions

So I'm holding off on going archive diving.

A few thoughts;

1. I'm openly on record as not particularly being all about reading backlog stuff - I agree with you that it is of debatable use.

2. You were the one who said you would read the stuff, so why did you say that if you never intended to?

3. You also asked for people's entrenched opinions on joining...why do that if your goal is to not be trapped in them and instead discover new thoughts?

4. What new thoughts, if any, have you created? Because you appear to be doing spit all.

My vote on Pine may be less academic now and more serious.

@DGB - so my stated comment about what you didn't pay attention to appears to hold quite accurate. Thanks for being bristly about it. What's your read on Pine's recent response and my above commentary about it?

Also, if I could get a read from you on Flubber that would be helpful.
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Post Post #5643 (isolation #647) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:15 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5639, DrippingGoofball wrote:Flubber seems legit.

Why? I, and a number of others, hold the opposite opinion. Can you describe how you got to this read?

I don't think you really need a claim summary at this point - the only one that matters is that Boon claimed BP Day 2.

In post 5641, Pine wrote:Thor, asking people for their opinions lets me know what the established lines are without contaminating my thought process with the backstory that caused them to get there. It also pushes people to commit to a read.

You asked 'what you needed to know' which is a bit different from asking for reads.
I was the only one who even came close to responding to you.
You have not asked for any other reads or thoughts since then.
Are you sure your strategy is what you are describing it as? Because if it is - you may need to work on your execution, yeah?

In post 5641, Pine wrote:At no point have I said I plan to do a full reread.

I agree.
At many points you did indicate you would read old stuff - do you disagree with that and/or have you changed your intentions?

In post 5641, Pine wrote:The only people I'm even going to read in any detail are flipped scum, and I've had about four hours of sleep in the last three days. It's not happening until tomorrow at least

No rush at this point, i've given up on getting quick feedback from you. Now I'm just idly curious if I can get you to L-1 prior to you managing anything proactive.
Maybe I can get Slandaar to vote you...

@Slandaar - any interest in voting Pine, the obv. avoid commentary slot?
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Post Post #5647 (isolation #648) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:02 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5644, DrippingGoofball wrote:Fluber's thoughts seem honest.

Yeah I do need a claim summary, thank you very much.

Which thoughts of his seem honest? That holds pretty empty for me as a tell also as, when scum, I generally try to avoid having to lie about anything for exactly that purpose. It's not even hard - especially in multiball. So can you expand on this some more?

Claim summary is - everyone who has claimed is either dead, a claimed BP, or me, who claimed 1 shot already used.
That's the summary.
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Post Post #5665 (isolation #649) » Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:01 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I think my interactions with reinoe and his towards me somewhat preclude that.
Also his role - unless the theory is I'm an odd-night roleblocker for red scum to spread out their roleblock.
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Post Post #5684 (isolation #650) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:07 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5593, Thor665 wrote:
In post 5592, Flubbernugget wrote:Recent complete games show garmr as playing to his town meta here.

Expand on this please?

@Flubber - Still hoping for expansion on this.
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Post Post #5741 (isolation #651) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:14 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5699, Pine wrote:I can see NC and Thor scum though, they've been obstructive and have sought to discredit fresh perspectives

I saw you establish this with Nero vaguely.
Please back up this claim as regards me though - because it holds no water at all as far as I can tell as I've done neither. So why do you think I've done both?

In post 5717, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 5684, Thor665 wrote:
In post 5593, Thor665 wrote:
In post 5592, Flubbernugget wrote:Recent complete games show garmr as playing to his town meta here.

Expand on this please?

@Flubber - Still hoping for expansion on this.

I think he's town based on his meta and you can do a metadive yourself if you disagree

I don't agree nor do I disagree - I'm just curious what meta tells you're using. This is a relatively straightforward question - you're calling him 'town' due to 'meta'. Please just describe the 'meta' that makes you reach that conclusion.

In post 5728, DrippingGoofball wrote:CONCLUSION

I am willing and able to lynch Flubber or Pine.

Which do you guys want?

Pine is the bigger wagon, and I'm leading the push on that while also softing on Flubber since early on.
Which do you prefer?
Pine - I suppose, due to size?
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Post Post #5742 (isolation #652) » Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:17 pm

Post by Thor665 »

@DGB - also, what's your read on Iz?
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Post Post #5753 (isolation #653) » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:44 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5743, AxleGreaser wrote:well if by leading tyhe push you mnean first vote on the vca wagon then yes you are leading.

if meaning you are actively trying to get him to be the lynch of the day, I dont see that so much.

That's not how I read the growth of that wagon - I do fully believe I made it happen and also fully believe I could kill it if I so desired. The wagon is based on the existence of my initial push, and no other reason i can see.

I would bother to crush this further, but I'm not actually against the presence of the wagon as stands because Pine is trying awfully hard to do very little, and I am not amused by it.
We should probably put him on L-1 just to see what happens.

In post 5750, DrippingGoofball wrote:He's conftown 4 sho

So in multiball you have one of the largest wagons consisting of a town read being voted by 2 townreads and a scumread being voted by 2 scumreads?
:neutral:
Is something damaged in the scumputer or am I misunderstanding how it works?
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Post Post #5756 (isolation #654) » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:20 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5754, DrippingGoofball wrote:
In post 5616, Aegor wrote:
DrippingGoofball replaces Izariael effective immediately.


LOL Thor not paying attention

Mod's last post count is prett gakked up then.

Fixed, I believe.
Last edited by Aegor on Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #5757 (isolation #655) » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:23 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5732, Aegor wrote:[2]Izariael: Slandaar, Boonskiies
[2]Pine: Thor665, Shiro
[1]Boonskiies: Flubbernugget
[1]DrippingGoofball: Nero Cain

[4] Not Voting: Pine, T S O, AxleGreaser, DrippingGoofball

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 4 deadline: 2 days, 16 hours, 4 minutes

So basically DGB is at L-3 then?

Also, DGB, that doesn't change your stance about a town read being voted by two town reads, though I suppose it does give you a scum read voting you now.

Why aren't you pushing for Nero more?
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Post Post #5769 (isolation #656) » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:27 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5763, DrippingGoofball wrote:
In post 5761, DrippingGoofball wrote:To keep you up to date, I voted Pine and so did AxleGreaser.

Earlier you asked me specifically if Flubber was scum, and you (or someone else) brought up that there was a lot of suspicion n Flubber. How come you or anyone else is voting Flubber???


Also Nero Cain is NOW voting Flubber.

But, to clarify, you are saying three people were voting you, in Multiball, and all of them, and yourself, are town?

In post 5762, DrippingGoofball wrote:EBWOP How come you or anyone else is voting Flubber???

How come neither you or anyone else is voting Flubber???

Because I'm voting Pine.

For anyone else you'd need to ask them. I suspect the answer is also 'because Thor is voting Pine' but that's just my personal suspicion.
What's yours?

In post 5764, Slandaar wrote:It's not like I had been quiet the previous X days I was in the game. If you felt it had anything to do with alignment you should have waited until the Christmas period ended and seen how I acted then. It's 'unexpected' because it has no purpose and timed badly, what is it you find suspicious about these circumstances?

Show me where I called it suspicious and I'll answer.

What's your take on the current Pine push?
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Post Post #5773 (isolation #657) » Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:19 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5771, DrippingGoofball wrote:
In post 5769, Thor665 wrote:But, to clarify, you are saying three people were voting you, in Multiball, and all of them, and yourself, are town?


Yes, but a 3-wagon person at the height of the Xmas season means little, especially since NeroCain troll-voted me when I replaced in.

Okay.

In post 5772, DrippingGoofball wrote:
In post 5769, Thor665 wrote:What's your take on the current Pine push?


I'm part of it, what do you think my take is? Are you paying attention at all???

Well...in your desperate rush to mock me, maybe you should have noted that the question you're whining about here was directed at Slandaar - not you.
So...no, I didn't ask about that, so, yeah, it would have been weird if I did, I suppose. What does it even matter though if I had?
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Post Post #5775 (isolation #658) » Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:54 am

Post by Thor665 »

I sort of thought he was just derping with that commentary, myself.
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Post Post #5777 (isolation #659) » Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:57 am

Post by Thor665 »

Depending on what you do or don't think the cop investigated.
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Post Post #5779 (isolation #660) » Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:03 am

Post by Thor665 »

The cop was a little awkward in defining what his investigation revealed or didn't reveal.

That said, on the flip side, I will agree that Reinoe tried to couch his counterclaim in terms of being a very specific cop, which may suggest Mafia does indeed have a specific cop.

But it's a bit muddy - and thus 'depends on what you do or don't think the cop investigated'.
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Post Post #5789 (isolation #661) » Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:34 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Are you? I think you are literally the only person (besides DGB who hadn't been here and hadn't read it) who was taking the claim seriously - and that only late in the day.
Why in the universe did you never ask him for his other results if you thought it was legit?
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Post Post #5797 (isolation #662) » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:04 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5791, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5789, Thor665 wrote:Why in the universe did you never ask him for his other results if you thought it was legit?

??

I don't see what is unclear about that question. Flubber also apparently understood it - so...?

In post 5794, Flubbernugget wrote:So mafia can know how many shots he is?

Why didn't you comment on my unvote right after he said it?

1. So you presumed he was limited shot?

2. Didn't even register to me.

Why would a Gunsmith clear on me make any difference - even when you voted me a blind man could see that if I was anyone's scumbuddy it would be Scripten, not Reinoe - so...if I was a wolf I wouldn't have a gun. So...?
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Post Post #5800 (isolation #663) » Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:24 pm

Post by Thor665 »

On average - werewolves kill with claws/teeth, just like SKs kill with knives and Mafia kill with guns.

I've given up on this game's existence in 'average' though - but the question still holds because either he should have thought they were not detectable by Gunsmith, in which case why clear me? or he should have thought they were - in which case why did he think that?
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Post Post #5821 (isolation #664) » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:37 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5812, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 5797, Thor665 wrote:
In post 5794, Flubbernugget wrote:So mafia can know how many shots he is?

Why didn't you comment on my unvote right after he said it?

1. So you presumed he was limited shot?

2. Didn't even register to me.

Why would a Gunsmith clear on me make any difference - even when you voted me a blind man could see that if I was anyone's scumbuddy it would be Scripten, not Reinoe - so...if I was a wolf I wouldn't have a gun. So...?


1) Infinity is also a number
2) That's probably something that should have registered if you wanted my lynch.

As to whether or not you're a wolf or a maf, I have no idea where your associatives are coming from but if it's from yesterday then kindly Smurf off.

:neutral:

1. :neutral: :neutral: :neutral: :neutral:
2. :? :neutral: :facepalm:

So...you didn't even analyze it in relation to what type of scum you thought I was?

Unvote: Pine
Vote: Flubber


Pine has actually converted me from a mild town read to a scum read on his slot due to utter fail of ability to do anything - that said, Flubber's reply here is skeevy and not happy making either, and I personally think he has a more suspect voting history in either case.

Let's run him up to L-1 and force a claim.

The mod has us currently listed as less than 2 days till deadline - so frankly I'd like to run ANYBODY to L-1 - but let's maybe aim for Flubber? It would excite me.
There are too many of you not voting yet - it's really annoying.
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Post Post #5822 (isolation #665) » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:39 am

Post by Thor665 »

Oh, also, for those who can't read between the lines - go back and read Flubber's response and my response to it again.
Then come back with a theory that he is a werewolf and read it again.
Then ask which time it makes sense as an action.

Then realize Thor wants to bag a Wolf to make himself conf. town ;)
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Post Post #5824 (isolation #666) » Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:02 am

Post by Thor665 »

@Boon - why is DGB a better lynch than Flubber?
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Post Post #5828 (isolation #667) » Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:11 am

Post by Thor665 »

If you are scum, the other scum team refusing to shoot you is lolsilly bad on their part.
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Post Post #5833 (isolation #668) » Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:40 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5831, Shiro wrote:Eh I am not against the flub lynch but isn't pine still better ?

I mean Pine seems to be wishing to let the spotlight shine away from him for some time now and we are kinda giving it to him

Is that the extent of your Pine case?
Because it is the extent of mine - and though that's not a terribad case, neither is it an awesome case.
What do you think of my Flubber case? I, personally, find that a stronger case - why do you not?
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Post Post #5851 (isolation #669) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:15 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5840, Slandaar wrote:If you don't find it suspicious why are you pestering me specifically about it?

Actually I really wasn't - you're the one who has turned it into a conversation topic due to how prickly you got about it. I find the prickliness strange and was content to explore it.
So you now admit that you have been prickly and defensive about something I never called scummy?
Why is that?

In post 5840, Slandaar wrote:I find the Pine push to be fine. What were you looking for?

I was hoping for thoughts on whether you consider him scum, and who on his wagon you considered scum almost regardless of him being or not being scum - because they're probably there.

Y'know - looking for you to play the game now that Christmas has passed?

Do you have no thoughts at all besides 'fine'?

In post 5844, Shiro wrote:@Thor if you haven't noticed I had Gamr as scum for reasons, Josh as scummy for reasons and Pine now seems scummy to me.

Sure taken alone Flub vs Pine may seem like Flub is worse but as a whole yea Pine is a much better lynch.

Do 'reasons' have names and descriptions?

Flubb did not choose to claim in his last post with a lot of pressure on him from this last minute wagon.
He has also studiously not addressed my attack on him.
Would soeone like to lulzhammer him without a claim now?
Tick-tock, tick-tock.
The day is running short methinks.
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Post Post #5852 (isolation #670) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:16 am

Post by Thor665 »

If anyone is his scumbuddy it would be a devilishly clever move to hammer him sans claim - no one would ever think you'd do it.
You'll totally fake out people and pretty much assuredly make it to lylo.
Just saying.
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Post Post #5858 (isolation #671) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:27 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5856, Slandaar wrote:Call it what you want but actually I was exploring your terrible accusation against me which turns out as you claim not to be an accusation but simply a passing comment posted in a misleading way for no real purpose.

So why did you get so anxious about it being an accusation - did it strike home?
You do seem pretty distanced from the decision of today's lynch as you're sitting on a useless DGB vote doing Smurf all to push it and just complaining that I poin ted out that you're doing Smurf all.

In post 5856, Slandaar wrote:You are very manipulative the way you twist things. I don't like it.

Yeah, I was really manipulative to have you misrep something I said and then claim it was my goal to...accomplish...something...how clever of me.

In post 5856, Slandaar wrote:Not really.

It is a fine wagon. There is no point worrying about who is voting who in multiball. My reads are easily found if you want to see who I think is scum voting him.

How about the Flubber wagon?
Will you hammer him?
Or will you not?
You're not doing anything again - it is very lackluster.
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Post Post #5862 (isolation #672) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:36 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5859, Pine wrote:The only viable wagons seem to be Flubber, DGB, and myself. DGB's been super Town since she replaced in, and I'm. It voting for myself or just letting a no lynch happen.

Someone please restate the Flubbernugget case. Concisely, please.

Flubber, this is intent to hammer. Please claim and/or convince me why I shouldn't hammer you

Um - I literally did so about a page ago and you have claimed to be reading the new stuff - do you need a link to something that happened about 24 hours ago? I could do that.

You also missed answering some questions I posed to you in your excitement to position for a hammer on Flubber - do I need to link those also?
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Post Post #5863 (isolation #673) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:38 am

Post by Thor665 »

Who am I kidding;

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6487852
That's a question - answer it please.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6490685
That and the next post is a case - react to it please.
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Post Post #5865 (isolation #674) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:56 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5864, Pine wrote:Hey guy, how about not being a dick

Oh, sorry, didn't mean to act like a dick by suggesting that you read the game...? Don't be weird, I wasn't being rude, I was pointing out that you missed things. You either did or did not miss them, making me either correct or not correct. At no point did I suggest you were a bad person, nor even something as rude as a 'dick' for missing them.

I did intimate that you might be scummy/a bad player though. At least one of those things is 100% legit to suggest, and the other should be something that, if true, you need to assess on your own whether it is worth adjusting or not.

In post 5864, Pine wrote:I missed the question, and that's not actually a case

It is a case. I'm voting him for it - that makes it a case by definition.
You may disagree with the case - but it's existence as a case is unarguable.
I would also note that I have created an L-1 wagon based off just my vote, and the words of that case - making it something you could/should address since you are indicating hammer intent.

What do you not like about it?
What would you like to see from a case on him?
Who do you think, if anyone, has expressed a more substantive case on anyone here this Day Phase?

In post 5864, Pine wrote:As for the question, you are making an assertion on my opinion. I stated that I feel you've been obstructive and discrediting to the replacements, and I stand by it. You've done everything in your power to undercut the validity of what we've said, and made every effort to paint what we do, even quietness, as scummy. I think it's because you're afraid of new opinions and fresh perspectives, which is scummy, as I've said before. I'd be pushing your lynch right now, but this late in the day it's not going to happen

Please show examples of me doing these things.
I have flat out said they are not true - if you can prove me wrong please do so.
I will agree you have long ago missed the opportunity to push for my lynch this phase.
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Post Post #5872 (isolation #675) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:54 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5866, Pine wrote:I'm not going quote-trolling at this stage of the day.

Your case is weak and far from comprehensive. Your case amounts to "didn't analyze which kind of scum." That's not a case

Very seriously considering this to be a scum vs scum interaction.

So basically you're saying my case is terrible, but Flubber is scum *because* my case is terrible?

:neutral:

I really hope I'm reading this wrong.
I also note the dodge on backing up your attack on me - better kill me tonight, buddy. Just saying. I'm keeping you in my targets, guaranteed.
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Post Post #5873 (isolation #676) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:57 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5870, DrippingGoofball wrote:
In post 5864, Pine wrote:I think it's because you're afraid of new opinions and fresh perspectives


Still waiting for yours...

He didn't get to give them because I downplayed them so much.
He'll provide quotes at a later time in the future to prove this happened, but can't be bothered now because he missed his chance to call me scum while not posting the things I demeaned him into not posting.
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Post Post #5874 (isolation #677) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:59 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5871, DrippingGoofball wrote:I think both Pine and Flubber are in fact scum.

It would make me pretty happy.

You're still voting Pine currently though, yeah? Any interest in the lulzhammer on Flubber?
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Post Post #5879 (isolation #678) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:52 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5877, DrippingGoofball wrote:
In post 5874, Thor665 wrote:
In post 5871, DrippingGoofball wrote:I think both Pine and Flubber are in fact scum.

It would make me pretty happy.

You're still voting Pine currently though, yeah? Any interest in the lulzhammer on Flubber?


I want both dead, I'll swing the hammer whichever way the wind blows.

Well...one of them is at L-1 with hours left to the day phase.
The other is not.

Are you expecting a Pine resurgence?
Or do you think these last few moments are somehow useful scumhunting?
Or what?

I'm basically requesting the hammer immediately and wondering why you're not doing it - to be clear.
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Post Post #5881 (isolation #679) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:53 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5878, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 5876, Shiro wrote:I honestly do not get why Flub is not doing anything we are in a kind of serious point in the game and honestly I would expect a townie to do his best to defend himself right now, not vanish and go w/e

This is not alignment indicative so try again

You're at L-1 with multiple hammer intents.

Anything to add?

Thoughts on your wagon?

A claim?

Anything?
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Post Post #5882 (isolation #680) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:53 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5880, Flubbernugget wrote:Also vt

No wait I mean 1 shot jk because that makes more sense somehow

No fair - that's my fakeclaim!

Okay - any last scum reads prior to your death?
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Post Post #5887 (isolation #681) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:00 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5884, Pine wrote:
Vote Flubbernugget


@Thor: Consider - I think you're scum. You appear to be putting together a cobbled-together, last-minute case on Flubber. I don't think you'd be doing so against someone you think is Town, too risky. Therefore, I'm guessing you have some kind of inside information. Scum in multiball often have a much clearer idea of who their opponents are than Town does

So basically you're saying that I had a wagon built on you to L-1, and then decided that you were town (for no reason, as you hadn't posted gak) and/or decided that Flubber was scum for a suddenly realized cobbled scum insight that I cannot share but is somehow connected to something he posted - and decided to avoid lynching you and push him as scum in a last minute gambit?

Yeah - that sounds like a scum plan...

:?
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Post Post #5888 (isolation #682) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:02 am

Post by Thor665 »

Like, seriously, what possible scum insight could I have gained at that point in the game.

Dazzle me - name anything. Do we have a Day Investigative on my team or something?
Do we have a Night Investigative and no day talk so I finally spotted the hints he was dropping?
Are you my scumpartner and I figured we'd distanced enough?
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Post Post #5890 (isolation #683) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:10 am

Post by Thor665 »

He claimed nothing at the point I switched to him.
All he did was answer my question about clearing me after a Gunsmith investigation.
Any other thoughts on my possible scum insight where I gave up a wagon on "town" to aggressively push Flubber?

Also, does this mean if Flubber flips town then I am confirmed town to you - or would I still be scum?
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Post Post #5893 (isolation #684) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:46 am

Post by Thor665 »

So your assessment is alternate scum teams each trying to get opposite scum lynched?
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Post Post #5900 (isolation #685) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:00 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Yeah, so that pretty much is a scumclaim.

Are you a wolf? That would be hilarious as it would make me pretty obv. conf. town at this stage. Scum will *love* getting to shoot a burnt PR, I am certain.

@TSO - we had a few names on both wagons, shouldn't those people end up looking slightly more townish if you think it was a cross scum action? Like, for instance, Shiro legit seemed to not give a whit. Town read?
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Post Post #5913 (isolation #686) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:25 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5906, AxleGreaser wrote:and really you are claiming you got wagon to L-1 then jumped off without a claim?

I wasn't claiming that, but I will agree it is what happened.


In post 5906, AxleGreaser wrote:You voted for Pine, with no real reason or push. Waffled around, and knowing that with this town in this game,it would be a pretty dam good bet no one would do jack (get to L-1) most of the day, then jumped off at L-2.
and all the good sheep followed you.

So while thats not the only explanation, it not a totally incredulous one.

It is a bit incredulous considering his statement that my case on Flubber was 'cobbled together' which carried the suggestion that my case on Pine was not.
Also, from his point of view - presenting himself as town - he is forced to argue that I am scum who derailed a wagon on town, which is also kind of a wonky working theory even in multiball.
It might make sense from an outside perspective who thinks Pine is scum, and maybe I'm a buddy pulling lulzgambits - but as a theory coming from Pine itself?
Yeah - credulity is strained.

You don't get that at all?
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Post Post #5928 (isolation #687) » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:11 am

Post by Thor665 »

I was in a neighborhood.

Why are you so spastic today?
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Post Post #5929 (isolation #688) » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:16 am

Post by Thor665 »

What is boggling my mind is the kills. Shiro has to be the DGB shot, as if she shot Axle that is just annoying and though I'm not surprised by SHiro's flip i could see being suspect of Shiro. But that means scum teams shot Axle and DGB fishing for other scum? What the heck, lackwits?
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Post Post #5930 (isolation #689) » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:19 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5920, T S O wrote:I do not understand why Thor is alive

The reason I am alive is because I am 100% not Mafia, and also, thanks to the way Scripten interacted with me - pretty ruddy likely not Wolf.
I'm basically alive because I'm the most obvious town - and I'm now trying to debate if you not being able to tell that is a town tell or not...with the kill shots last night I'm not sure :lol:


:facepalm:
Oy.
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Post Post #5938 (isolation #690) » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:41 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5933, T S O wrote:
In post 5928, Thor665 wrote:I was in a neighborhood.


Did you mention this much before?

I dunno - did I?
I mean, it was mentioned as recently as last Day phase, and an iso of me on Day 1 with 'neighbor' should either reveal or not reveal something.

In post 5933, T S O wrote:I don't think it fully dawned on me until the opening of d5 just how Smurfed we are. I mean, 6-2-1 felt a little cosy with crosskill potential. But 3-2-1 is pretty fucking serious. So I've decided to stop being an apathetic useful Smurf and try to break this open.

Town was screwed yesterday unless one or both of the scumteams did some decent shooting. The scumteams have been shockingly lackluster in their scumhunting though. I'm currently Wolf MVP and Mafia is probably owing thanks to the Vig shot on Night 2 methinks.

You're really just noticing this?

I'll debate my Wolf status as soon as you can show any reason to think I'm a Wolf or actually disprove that I'm the most obv town player in the game.
Nothing but a smilie?
Okay then - case closed.
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Post Post #5939 (isolation #691) » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:41 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5936, T S O wrote:I'm trying to figure out if Scripten's interactions with Thor clear Thor - I've been reading through his ISO for the last 10-15 mins and it's pretty good scum theatre if it -is- scum theatre.

What prompted that specific readthrough?
This reads as a lie to me.
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Post Post #5941 (isolation #692) » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:43 am

Post by Thor665 »

Why didn't you do that days ago?
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Post Post #5946 (isolation #693) » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:00 am

Post by Thor665 »

@TSO - in a quick snark rebuttal;

1. Probably searching an iso with a misspelling is not brilliant.
2. Do you think I was trying to buddy my Wolf partner?
3. So it wasn't until today that you decided to bother trying to find any wolves and prior to then you were just...?
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Post Post #5948 (isolation #694) » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:29 am

Post by Thor665 »

We obviously have no SK at this stage with DGB's flip - and you remain scum, the question is what type of scum.

You should actually claim Mafia even if you are a Wolf, because town and Mafia want to kill Wolves right now - I would sheep a claimed Mafia player today. Are you Mafia? If so I will help defend you, but otherwise you look ungawdly scummy and need rope.
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Post Post #5949 (isolation #695) » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:30 am

Post by Thor665 »

@DGB - why u no shoot this guy?
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Post Post #5953 (isolation #696) » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:52 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5950, T S O wrote:In America, it's neighbor - everywhere else, it's neighbour. Your ignorance makes me sad.

I'm aware of the British and American spellings.
Which country do you think I'm from?
I even had just spelled neighbor for you but seconds prior to your search if we want to start debating who is being blind. Or do I need to provide this link for you also?

In post 5950, T S O wrote:I don't particularly care about this question - you claimed you were nearly cleared from being a Wolf due to your Scripten interactions, yet you haven't shown them. We don't need to discuss that until you do (or, as I'm beginning to believe will happen, you're not able to.)

It's a serious question that showcases why I'm not a wolf. I'll ask it again.
Do you think I was buddying my wolf partner?

In post 5950, T S O wrote:
In post 5946, Thor665 wrote:3. So it wasn't until today that you decided to bother trying to find any wolves and prior to then you were just...?


Yeah, it wasn't really until today I was doing much at all. I'm here now though, so ...?

Wow.
Stop sucking please?
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Post Post #6077 (isolation #697) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:15 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5955, T S O wrote:I know you love arguing semantics bullshit, so let's make this quick.
You called neighbour a misspelling.
It's not a misspelling.

End of conversation.

Okay?

But to get this back to the point - do you remember when you asked if I had brought up my neighbor status earlier?
Do you still need help with that or did you find it?

In post 5955, T S O wrote:My answer is exactly the same as before,
please
stop trying to find other questions to ask. You clearly felt that these interactions were obvious - so why not just quote them and blow me away? It would impress everyone more than the wordgames you're playing at present.

I will happily blow you away.
Again - answer the question; do you think i was buddying my wolf partner?
If you say 'no' then I can show you evidence that I did thereby showing I'm a really weird wolf who decided to buddy his partner.
If you say 'yes' then my evidence won't matter and I'll instead ask you why you think I did this.
So what do you think? Would Wolf Thor buddy Wolf Scripten - y/n?
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Post Post #6078 (isolation #698) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:21 am

Post by Thor665 »

Wow, I skimmed those pages and am left with absolutely zero desire to even explain how bad the current logic for Wolf Thor is.

You guys make me sad.
And you are also sheeping Pine logic off and on.

@Slandaar - to answer your question; the only way half intelligent scum should have been shooting last night was to hit other scum. Scum who spent last night shooting at town are playing badly.
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Post Post #6079 (isolation #699) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:23 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6020, T S O wrote:Pine and Thor as WW.

:neutral:
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Post Post #6080 (isolation #700) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:45 am

Post by Thor665 »

Looking over it again my current working theory is Pine = wolf and Boon = Mafia.

I'm not sure about a Pine partner yet.
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Post Post #6087 (isolation #701) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:52 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6081, T S O wrote:Actually, I'd like to see your evidence you didn't buddy, and then make my mind up.

My argument is that I did buddy and I'm asking you if you think i would do that as Wolf.
If you'd like to look for it prior to answering my question that is fine - or you can answer my question and then I can respond to that answer. Either way works for me.
Why is it so difficult for you to answer a y/n question? What do you think will be my scum gain in getting you to answer that question before showing evidence?

In post 6083, Slandaar wrote:I see. You are applying a theory of 'what you would do' to the kills and not looking at the kills individually and assessing them on their own merits which seems sub-optimal to me but not to you?

I am looking at the kills and surmising that scum shot for town and then calling scum raging lackwits who play badly.
I don't see what is confusing about that statement nor what mental blocks I am putting onto my scumhunting with that as an idea that will lead to sub-optimal play.
Clarify?

In post 6085, Slandaar wrote:I'm not sure about a Pine partner yet.

The problem with Boon Mafia is for him to be Mafia either;
1. Wolves have to be packing some serious power in their final 2 members or;
2. Boon isn't BP.

I think both are unlikely personally.

Which do you think?[/quote]
I think he's probably not BP.

In post 6086, Pine wrote:Also, I continue to lol at the fact that Thor's only real defense is "I wouldn't do that, would I?" Yes, of course you would. Especially if you thought it would make you look like you weren't partners. Good God, WIFOM much?

That's not actually my defense nor is my defense wifom - it is only wifom depending on whether people think i would do so on the basis of getting them to believe it is something I wouldn't do. Basically you're the one bringing wine into this and then complaining that I did.
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Post Post #6090 (isolation #702) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:27 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6088, Slandaar wrote:Clarify What?

I thought you were suggesting they aimed at scum and felt that was a strange assumption to make.
In post 5929, Thor665 wrote:But
that means scum teams shot Axle and DGB fishing for other scum?
What the heck, lackwits?

Strongly implies you think they were fishing for other scum shots (and felt they were bad choices)

Yes, and thus when I call them lackwits I am suggesting their decision was poor.
And then you said that could lead to sub-optimal thinking - I am askign what sub-optimal thinking I am headed towards and wish you to clarify that.

In post 6088, Slandaar wrote:I very much dislike that weird twist you have tried to pull. I don't think that is what you were saying at all.

Okay?
So what was I saying - I was saying that they shit for scum poorly or that they shot for town wisely? In both cases my core point is that they chose poorly. Either way, what difference in mindset do you think it will make that will lead to sub-optimal scumhunting from my end?
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Post Post #6091 (isolation #703) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:27 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6089, Slandaar wrote:
In post 6087, Thor665 wrote:I think he's probably not BP.

It's quite risky to claim BP into a full game when it's a fairly common role and can be CC'ed safely.

No?

Maybe - but with the concept that he's town - what the heck were Mafia doing Day 1 with their votes?
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Post Post #6092 (isolation #704) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:28 am

Post by Thor665 »

I mean, even with you answering that (which I'd like to see) the only difference is I don't want to lynch him today but for different reasons than you do - so I really don't even see the point of specifically debating it at this stage really.
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Post Post #6094 (isolation #705) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:03 am

Post by Thor665 »

No - it's not.
Any argument based on - I would do this because I think you wouldn't think I would do this is wifom.
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Post Post #6096 (isolation #706) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:18 am

Post by Thor665 »

I don't think you understand the difference between wifom and an opinion/conclusion.

For instance, people have concluded that I am not Mafia because I helped nail 2 mafia. Now, maybe I did that because I am Mafia and wanted to look like not mafia - but that doesn't mean that the people who think I'm not mafia are using wifom.
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Post Post #6098 (isolation #707) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:38 am

Post by Thor665 »

Excellent, you are thinking what I want you to think.
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Post Post #6100 (isolation #708) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:48 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6071, Pine wrote:
In post 6069, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 6067, T S O wrote:Scripten was voting for Cho, Thor and Josh B and Ren's slot has voted for TSO, Cho, and Thor. Flubber has voted Thor and Boon.

so both teams voted him. I cleared Shiro for the same reasoning and that worked out fine.

This is weak. It wholly discounts the notion of bussing. People do it

Like take this - who is using wifom here by your definition? You, Nero, or both?
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Post Post #6132 (isolation #709) » Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:19 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6101, Pine wrote:Neither. We're analyzing others' actions, not trying to push our own versions of our actions

Thor - serious question. How do you define 'WIFOM'?

Well...I believe this;
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... g_is_WIFOM

And also use this definition;
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM

Both of which is shown in my answer and, also, neither of which is what you are using WIFOM to mean.

In post 6105, Boonskiies wrote:
In post 6105, Pine wrote:lol scum



scum claim, let's lynch it.

Well, derp - we all know he's scum. Why do you think he's wolf scum and not mafia scum?

In post 6129, Slandaar wrote:I think it is sub-optimal to just assume they were attempted cross kills. It's not about where you are heading but why you would assume that in the first place.

So?
You're still not putting into words how that becomes sub-optimal. What was the bad path I was traveling down mentally?

In post 6129, Slandaar wrote:
In post 6090, Thor665 wrote:Okay?
So what was I saying - I was saying that they shit for scum poorly or that they shot for town wisely? In both cases my core point is that they chose poorly. Either way, what difference in mindset do you think it will make that will lead to sub-optimal scumhunting from my end?

You didn't say OR anything and it was not implied. Please show we where you did this or where you feel it was if you wish to debate it.

If this were the case you would have answered my original question completely differently. The answer you gave does not line up with what you are saying currently Thor.

Read my answer again - you're brutally misreading it right now.

In post 6130, Slandaar wrote:
In post 6091, Thor665 wrote:Maybe - but with the concept that he's town - what the heck were Mafia doing Day 1 with their votes?

I have no idea what you are saying/suggesting.

I am suggesting that if he is town or wolf that the votes in Day 1 don't make a lot of sense - I'm not sure how to say that any simpler.
Have you gone and looked at the vote counts from Day 1 and done so with the mental idea that Boon is Town/Wolf - how do those vote counts look to you? DO they make sense and seem likely to have happened?
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Post Post #6142 (isolation #710) » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:18 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6133, Slandaar wrote:Enlighten me then. Use the VC's to show me Boon is mafia and not a wolf.

Just a few pages back Boon already did some colorcoding of Day 1 with his name in green.
You think all of those look great?

Tell me - who do you think is mafia if not Boon? I want to see how you make sense of mafia's actions there.

In post 6134, Slandaar wrote:If you are assuming X happened when there is no reason to assume X other than 'that is what I would do' X is sub-optimal.

That is not true and I reject your narrow logic for thinking so.
The concept of the game is based around trying to figure out why scum would or would not do what they do or don't do.
That's scumhunting.

In post 6135, Slandaar wrote:All roads lead to my reply.

No they don't because your reply is based on a false premise of what I'm saying and then asks me to defend the premise.
My rebuttal was 'no matter which you think i said what is the different mindset' you replied with 'you didn't say both, why do you want me to believe you did' to which I say 'buh?'
Read the reply again.

In post 6141, T S O wrote:So, Slandaar and Thor didn't quickhammer.

That probably makes Pine confwolf.

All that does is suggest Slandaar and I are not Wolf buddies - no more, no less.
Why do you think it suggests we are not wolves?
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Post Post #6145 (isolation #711) » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:38 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6144, T S O wrote:I'll bite - no, I believe you didn't buddy, let's see your evidence.

Disclaimer: this belief may not actually be true.

That was not the question - are you now claiming that there was no buddying there (while disclaiming it at the same time)?
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Post Post #6147 (isolation #712) » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:35 pm

Post by Thor665 »

For the purpose of 'I just want to see it because I don't think it exists' I'll provide it if you commit to an answer without weird attached caveats.
If not - his and my iso await your attention to check it out for yourself.

Basically - it's worth it to me to go and dig for the quotes if I can get you to commit that you'd not buy it as wolf/wolf action - other than that I see no value to my time to dig for info so you can consider said info in a vacuum. Spend your own time doing that research if it's valuable to you - that is of no value to me.
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Post Post #6153 (isolation #713) » Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:46 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6150, Pine wrote:Still Thor and Boon. Now that the connections between them have them pointed out, they're distancing.

:neutral:

So all my attempts to sell that someone should shoot Boon on all previous days were *not* distancing then?
Tell me more.
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Post Post #6159 (isolation #714) » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:12 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6157, Pine wrote:Thor and I have been scum reading each other hard since I replaced in.mcharacterizing it as something new and nefarious is just misrepresentative

Dude, you should really stop with the WIFOM - after all;

In post 6155, Pine wrote:And enough with the bullSmurf about how, just because once upon a time you attacked someone or buddies them, that you can't be their buddy. Bussing exists. White knighting buddies exists. Talking about what you would or wouldn't do as scum is engaging in the basest WIFOM


:lol:

@Boon - who do you think Pine's scumbuddy is, if any?
I don't care that he is scum, I care if he has a scum buddy that makes sense. Because if he doesn't he'd be Mafia, yeah?
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Post Post #6160 (isolation #715) » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:14 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6158, Boonskiies wrote:Thor/Slandaar/Nero does not make up the wolf buddies, as they would have hammered you and won. I'm really confident with my vote.

So you're saying TSO or Nero wolf?
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Post Post #6164 (isolation #716) » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:08 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6161, Slandaar wrote:Well, I think they look fantastic if you colour him a Wolf colour, but sure, Green looks fine.

So you think this looks fine?
In post 5997, Boonskiies wrote:GRAY is unflipped who are not mafia.

[7]
PeregrineV
:
Egg
,
Thor665
,
Muffin
,
Scripten
,
davesaz
,
The Fonz
,
Boonskiies

[4]
Thor
:
goodmorning
,
Nero Cain
,
flubbernugget
,
PeregrineV

[3]
Aneninen
:
T S O
,
Pine
,
Shiro

[2]
T S O
:
AxleGreaser
,
Aneninen

[1]
Shiro
:
reinoe

[1]
Scripten
:
DGB

[3] Not Voting:
Slandaar
,
beastcharizard
,
Tiershift

=========================


In post 6162, Slandaar wrote:To use this for scum hunting purposes you would need to decide who is most likely to shoot those players for that purpose when the purpose can be completely wrong.

Such are all value calls in the game - value calls are still made. You are making one, and I am making one - the opinions differ but the core reality of a value call being made has not changed. Therefore, if I am sub optimal so are you.
Clarify?


In post 6163, Slandaar wrote:Either you accept your meaning of Z was as I have used it or you argue that I am wrong.

I already argued that you were wrong.

In post 6163, Slandaar wrote:Rewind the conversation
Thor
Crosskills!
Sland
Why do you think they were crosskills?
Thor
It's what I would do
Sland
Your analysis seems sub-optimal.

?

No, it was like this;

Thor
Those were incredibly bad shots for scum to make.
Sland
Why do you think they were crosskills?
Thor
I never said that.
Sland
Your analysis seems sub-optimal
Thor
Why?
Sland
Watch my scumhunting soar!


Whassup?
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Post Post #6165 (isolation #717) » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:15 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5929, Thor665 wrote:But that means scum teams shot Axle and DGB fishing for other scum? What the heck, lackwits?

In post 6087, Thor665 wrote:I am looking at the kills and surmising that scum shot for town and then calling scum raging lackwits who play badly.

In post 6090, Thor665 wrote:In both cases my core point is that they chose poorly.


Such a shocking story change from me.
I'm sure the change will just leap into my face as I read these.
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Post Post #6171 (isolation #718) » Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:13 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6167, Boonskiies wrote:I don't see how you can possibly be mafia.

@Thor - the wolf buddies aren't both in that group of 3. One of the three of you are pines partner, though.

And you think we all look to be likely?

In post 6169, Slandaar wrote:I mean I have no idea why you are calling them value calls but fine, allow me to enlighten you on value calling. When you are making a 'value call' the objective of such should be to use as much information as possible to make the best 'value call' you can with the information available - you didn't and thus your 'value call' was sub-optimal I mean really Thorsie... really. :]

:facepalm:

I don't even know where you're going and have had no idea for some time. Sure - I await the insight.
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Post Post #6173 (isolation #719) » Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:08 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 565, Scripten wrote:Heh. I like this. Not yet ready to sheep Thor, but this is a good post.

In post 606, Scripten wrote:It's actually hilarious how badly both you and PereV are missing what Thor has been saying.

Here's two of them.
I have no wproved it happened.

So - next question - why have you not checked out a flipped Wolf's iso?
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Post Post #6177 (isolation #720) » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:08 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6175, T S O wrote:That was pathetic.

Okay?
It still showed what I needed to prove that buddying was happening.
And also seems to imply you really aren't reading Scripten...like, at all.
Do you think that is an incorrect conclusion from the info I've seen?
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Post Post #6185 (isolation #721) » Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:29 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6178, Pine wrote:No one ever questioned that the buddying happened.

Other than TSO you mean?

In post 6178, Pine wrote:It's the absurd assertion that it makes you Town that we scoffed at.

So you're saying Scripten did that to engender good feelings from me towards him so I wouldn't vote to lynch him while we were wolf buddies?

In post 6181, Slandaar wrote:All the main wagons are not mafia so mafia have no real incentive to vote PV (which I assume is the point you are making) Fact is, 2 mafia were not voting PV, the third may or may not have been but there isn't a reason to think the 7th vote on the wagon is likely to be mafia.

It's called percentages - when 7 people (1/3 of all voters) are voting someone (an 8th player who is not Mafia) - then, yes, I would expect Mafia to be on that wagon.
So...do you not do wagon analysis or do you do it in some alternate way? Becausse I'm pretty sure my way is the "standard" way or at least close to it. What's your method?

In post 6181, Slandaar wrote:No, you didn't.

Yes I did? This is empty.

In post 6181, Slandaar wrote:
In post 6164, Thor665 wrote:
No, it was like this;

Thor
Those were incredibly bad shots for scum to make
.
Sland
Why do you think they were crosskills?
Thor
I never said that.

Ladies and Gentlemen BEHOLD a new way to say 'I never said that!':
In post 6078, Thor665 wrote:the only way half intelligent scum should have been shooting last night was to hit other scum.
Scum who spent last night shooting at town are playing badly.

Yeah - totally a story change...

In post 6182, Slandaar wrote:Doesn't even include the part where I ask you why you think they were aiming for other scum and you reply with 'because scum should only have been shooting for other scum' which by extension means you think they were shooting for other scum and not as you say in the second quote 'shot for town'

Scum either shot for town, which was bad play.
Or they shot for scum by shooting fairly town looking slots, which was bad play.
Ergo - scum is playing badly - which is what I somewhat implied when I called them "lackwits" which is not meant as a compliment of their play.
No matter which way you approach it - scum shot dumb last night.

In post 6184, Slandaar wrote:
In post 5175, Aegor wrote:[5]
beastcharizard:
Thor665,
reinoe
,
Shiro, AxleGreaser
, Boonskiies
[5]
reinoe
:
beastcharizard
, Slandaar, Nero Cain, Josh_B,
Flubbernugget

[1]Thor665:
goodmorning


[2] Not Voting:
Izariael
, T S O

This is a more interesting VC than the nonsense one you are showing Thor. (Although I would greatly enjoy you showing me more of these VC's)
Where is the mafia?

Highlighted in read? Do you mean wolves here? But you can't mean wolves and then bring up bussing...so, I'm not sure what your point is really.

In post 6184, Slandaar wrote:Bussing?
Voting Beast?
Not Voting?

Well - I have called Boon scum, so he's certainly a slot I'm eyeing. Also, Flubber shows that bussing was happening, so I'm not sure why you have a question mark behind it (again, unless you meant wolves - but then what bussing are you talking about even on a theoretical level?)?

In post 6184, Slandaar wrote:I like Josh as mafia for sitting on Reinoe that day doing pretty much nothing then flaking. I find that a huge mafia tell. Take Flubber, he didn't sit there as long but he did exactly the same sort of thing.

Whassup Thor?

You say this like it's owning my face on some point - what point do you think you're owning me on? Calling Pine scum? I've been doing that for a few days now - both real and game, so...?
I don't feel like we're talking with each other here - I feel like I've missed an entire sub conversation/debate of which this is a crowning culmination post to - clarify?
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Post Post #6186 (isolation #722) » Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:31 am

Post by Thor665 »

Or is it you're trying to sell me that Josh is Mafia?
Nah - I find that unlikely, his play works fine for Wolf and, in my opinion, moreso than Mafia.
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Post Post #6191 (isolation #723) » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:23 am

Post by Thor665 »

PeregrineV: Egg, Thor665
,
Scripten
,
The Fonz, davesaz, TierShift, Shiro
, T S O, Pine,
AxleGreaser, Muffin
, Boonskiies

This wagon is definitely lacking in mafia currently.
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Post Post #6192 (isolation #724) » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:34 am

Post by Thor665 »

@Slandaar - in and amongst your derp debate, talk to me about why you think Pine is Mafia and not Wolf. I am very much of the opposite opinion.
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Post Post #6194 (isolation #725) » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:15 am

Post by Thor665 »

Why is that odd? You started the day suspecting me, then started to town read me for no apparent reason, and now are claiming a return to status quo at Day start. Why does this leave you amazed at the possibility?
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Post Post #6197 (isolation #726) » Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:46 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6195, T S O wrote:
In post 6124, T S O wrote:Everyone, if I die, PLEASE do not clear Slandaar and Nero for no good reason - I have been fingering Thor a lot for scum lately but that could be wrong the more I think on it.


This is the only "townread" I have ever given you today and that was because I was expecting a quickhammer on Pine, as evidenced later, and didn't want to die and town to simply autoclear people and quicklynch you.

Yes?
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Post Post #6199 (isolation #727) » Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:14 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Why is Slandaar Pine's scumbuddy? I've been having a hard time narrowing down who I think is most likely to fit that role.
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Post Post #6201 (isolation #728) » Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:53 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Is the PoE based on gut or something else - you repeating your conclusions aids me not at all in understanding why Sland/Pine is a pair in your opinion.
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Post Post #6205 (isolation #729) » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:21 am

Post by Thor665 »

Because it's the best move right now regardless of his scum faction - and we all knew he was scum.
Without a counterclaim I oppose the idea of lynching Pine.
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Post Post #6206 (isolation #730) » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:23 am

Post by Thor665 »

@Pine - could you clarify which kills were your factions please? It would probably help with Wolf identification.
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Post Post #6221 (isolation #731) » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:15 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6207, Boonskiies wrote:He's lying.

Is this a counterclaim?

In post 6210, T S O wrote:Yes. because the Mafia is totally going to claim just to get Pine lynched. :roll:

If they don't we won't lynch him, so maybe just vote your alternate wolf suspect?

In post 6218, T S O wrote:Yeah, this doesn't make any sense either.

Thor: I am very much of the opinion that Pine is Wolf.
Pine: I'm Mafia
Thor: Pine's Mafia, we're not lynching them unless they're counterclaimed!!!

How does that not make sense?
It appears to make a lot of sense to me.
A Mafia claim, at this stage, is an Innocent Child claim as far as I'm concerned. Mafia can always counter it if they don't like that.
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Post Post #6228 (isolation #732) » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:19 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6223, T S O wrote:A Mafia claim is an Innocent Child

because an innocent child is modconfirmed innocent child
whereas pine could be lying out of his hole

I don't think you understand the current gamestate.
Lynching a claimed Mafia is inherently bad play today unless they are Mafia and you are a Wolf.
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Post Post #6229 (isolation #733) » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:20 am

Post by Thor665 »

And yet you're whining about me not wanting to lynch them.
Derp much?
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Post Post #6230 (isolation #734) » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:22 am

Post by Thor665 »

@Mod - request an update on the Nero situation. It has been 100 hours since he last posted and he is posting in other game threads.

I am not pleased.
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Post Post #6241 (isolation #735) » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:56 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6231, Boonskiies wrote:And that's exactly why fake claiming mafia as a wolf is a good play. There's 6 people. If one of the two wolves claim mafia, it makes the odds so much greater for them. They have a lynch pool of 4 different people they can lynch and be fine. They fail, they're still alive. They really don't have much to lose. Town and mafia, on the other hand, LOSE if they don't lynch one of two people today. It's an obvious fake claim.

That is only a win for wolves if they lynch Mafia - if they don't then Mafia shoots the fakeclaimed Wolf, right?
What am I missing here?

In post 6232, T S O wrote:I don't think you understand how lying works. If you did, you'd see the reason that Boonskiies and I -don't- immediately trust the claim, while you do.

I do understand how lying works - and you even appear to be coming around to the shocking concept that we can't afford to lynch a claimed Mafia player without a counterclaim yet you are somehow then suggesting me figuring this out quicker than you equates to me playing badly because I "believe" him?
How does that make sense exactly?
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Post Post #6244 (isolation #736) » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:12 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6242, Boonskiies wrote:why would someone as mafia counter claim?

:neutral:
In post 6243, Boonskiies wrote:If Pine is a wolf, and mafia counter claims, that auto wins the game for wolves unless mafia gets a lucky crosskill. Wolves will shoot mafia in the night and win the game.

:neutral:
How many wolves do you think are currently alive exactly?
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Post Post #6247 (isolation #737) » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:15 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Okay, so now we're into 'not autowin' territory.

So what's your issue with my plan exactly if it's not a wolf autowin?
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Post Post #6250 (isolation #738) » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:32 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6248, Boonskiies wrote:you and pine are wolves together. that's the issue.

Yes - anyone could be partners to Pine - how is that an issue specifically for me?

In post 6249, T S O wrote:I'll make it nice and easy to understand, Thor.

Okay.

In post 6249, T S O wrote:Pine could be Wolf, or could be Mafia.
Pine has claimed Mafia today, but we have to lynch a Wolf. Therefore, we can't lynch Pine if Pine's telling the truth or we lose.
However, Pine could be lying, and could be a Wolf - making our odds of lynching a Wolf quite low.
A silly man called Thor665 is auto-clearing Pine, because no-one has counterclaimed Pine's Mafia claim yet.
He does not understand that counterclaiming would be suicide for the Mafia player, and so there will not be a counterclaim.
Because there won't be a counterclaim, this means that Pine has been cleared, for nothing, with no proof.

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.
5. Okay?
6. Yes.

What's the issue though?
Because as far as I can tell, the only way your fear matters (no mafia counterclaim and Pne is Wolf) is if we lynch Mafia - and if we start to lynch Mafia I am willing to wager we will get a Mafia counterclaim.

So...what's the issue?
How is this bad for town?
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Post Post #6251 (isolation #739) » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:33 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I understand how it is frustrating if you are Mafia and now you know Pine is a Wolf, but besides that I don't understand why you are not okay with this.
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Post Post #6254 (isolation #740) » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:39 pm

Post by Thor665 »

@Boon - I also, in that same post, agreed with TSO that Pine could be lying. So if it's a slip I did it at least twice.

@TSO - Yes, we would be relying on the Werewolf team to keep us in the game if we lynch town today. Just like, prior to Pine's claim, we would have been counting on Mafia to do it if we lynched town. Town has not been in good shape for some time - I don't see why a possible town loss changes the optimal town play for the day though?
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Post Post #6270 (isolation #741) » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:36 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6256, T S O wrote:Mafia would have had a 2/3 chance of shooting a Wolf - now Wolf has a 1/3 chance of shooting Mafia.

It's worse than it was.

Except you're forgetting the wolf shot in the above.
It is not worse.

In post 6263, Pine wrote:I'm not Mafia (still VT). I was trying to draw out a Mafia soft-counterclaim while gauging potential Wolf bloodthirstiness

:neutral:

In post 6263, Pine wrote:Thor has more or less claimed Wolf at this point.

How did I do that - specifically?
By not being bloodthirsty about you?

In post 6269, Aegor wrote:
Nero Cain has been prodded.

:neutral:
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Post Post #6285 (isolation #742) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 9:25 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6271, Boonskiies wrote:Have TSO/Slandaar/Nero claimed? I think it may be beneficial if they did.

I would support this.

In post 6273, Nero Cain wrote:I'm going to go watch a movie and be back later but just quickly I think exactly one of Boon/Thor is scum and my guess is Boon.

?

In post 6273, Nero Cain wrote:if TSO were scum he'd be mafia

??

In post 6273, Nero Cain wrote:My preferred lynch list is Boon or no lynch.

???

In post 6274, Boonskiies wrote:No lynching leaves this game way up to chance. We aren't no lynching. It's Thor or Pine.

Why is it Thor or Pine? I keep asking you this and I don't feel like you're answering.

In post 6277, T S O wrote:
In post 6270, Thor665 wrote:
In post 6256, T S O wrote:Mafia would have had a 2/3 chance of shooting a Wolf - now Wolf has a 1/3 chance of shooting Mafia.

It's worse than it was.

Except you're forgetting the wolf shot in the above.


What?
[smip]
What exactly am I missing here ...?

In the first example where you're touting it as 'better' - you're forgetting the wolf shot.
Neither situation is good for us.
Literally the only thing that matters for town today is lynching a wolf - every other option is bad or worse. Nothing has changed that.

In post 6283, T S O wrote:
In post 6235, T S O wrote:
In post 4199, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2532, Thor665 wrote:Hey, GM, I'm keeping you in mind.

Crumb.

Not that this should come as a shock since besides claiming VT when being a scum PR - the only thing I ever lie about in claims is alignment.


I was thinking about this.

It makes perfect sense for Thor to be an Odd-Night Roleblocker with this claim as scum. He quite probably -did- block goodmorning with this. It's a clever claim because if someone had used their PR on him, it would seem like he was telling the truth, yet blocking goodmorning had scum motivation because gm was sure he was scum.

And, as well as that, it ties in brilliantly with the set-up - because reinoe, flipped Mafia, was an Even-Night Roleblocker.


Can we discuss this? Because I want to.

What is there to discuss?
Is your theory that Boon is town and paired with a JOAT with a commute qualifies as the defensive side of the town? My role makes immense sense balance wise as town - why do you disagree and think scum overall had an every day roleblock versus limited targeting town?

In post 6284, Slandaar wrote:What I will say about this is it is somewhat what I suspected. Mafia can't actually claim and stick to their claim of mafia today. I need to think about it though.

Will be back tomorrow with lots of time.

Why is it you can play 20 derp itimized responses to me but can't comment on the gamestate?
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Post Post #6290 (isolation #743) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:06 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6286, Nero Cain wrote:You think we have 4 town prs?

Considering 1 scum team had 2 PRs and, presumably, so does the other one, and multi faction - yeah, 4 PRs hardly seems off to me.
Also, wouldn't that be 5? JOAT, Vig, JKer, BP, Cop.

In post 6286, Nero Cain wrote:The way that scripten tried to play mediator between me and TSO makes me think non wolf and the non wolf scum faction is mafia.

I actually do not dislike this logic - what do you think of TSO's stance that he is not Mafia as he expressed a few posts back in reply to you?
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Post Post #6291 (isolation #744) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:09 am

Post by Thor665 »

I actually believe Pine that he isn't Mafia because he's not a neighbor.
That strengthens my Wolf read on him though.

Boon and TSO are unlikely partners, and I'm getting sold on the TSo not wolf theory Nero is selling, which would also make Nero not Wolf (or Wolf with TSo which I don't particularly buy)

Pine/Slandaar wolf?
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Post Post #6292 (isolation #745) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:09 am

Post by Thor665 »

Who townreads Slandaar or has a case for him to not be Mafia or not be Wolf?
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Post Post #6294 (isolation #746) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:13 am

Post by Thor665 »

I still have questions outstanding to you about your reads Boonie - if you are town I am beginning to just sort of loathe how you play.
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Post Post #6295 (isolation #747) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:13 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6285, Thor665 wrote:
In post 6274, Boonskiies wrote:No lynching leaves this game way up to chance. We aren't no lynching. It's Thor or Pine.

Why is it Thor or Pine? I keep asking you this and I don't feel like you're answering.
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Post Post #6302 (isolation #748) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:30 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6299, T S O wrote:One of Thor or Boon has to be scum, and here's why:

There are 3 Neighbourhoods -
5 player - Anen, goodmorning, Izariael, Shiro, Boon
4p - Scripten, dave, TSO, Nero
3p - Egg, Thor, Pere

I don't think that both the 5 -and- the 3 player hoods were all town. One of Thor and Boon is scum.

:neutral:

Here's a more interesting thought and why I am currently thinking Pine is not Mafia.

There are 2 flipped Mafia - 0 neighbors.
There is 1 flipped Wolf - 1 neighbor.

I am currently suggesting that the unflipped mafia (who is likely a Goon as is the flipped Wolf) is a Neighbor - as Mafia currently lacks a neighbor.
Ergo - people who are not neighbors are not the last Mafia.

Thoughts?
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Post Post #6305 (isolation #749) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:32 am

Post by Thor665 »

@TSO - Hint: it is also supporting evidence on my Pine/Slandaar = Wolves theory.

@Boon - why not lynch Slandaar? Why do you not suspect him?
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Post Post #6308 (isolation #750) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:36 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6306, T S O wrote:What a pity it is Pine didn't stick with that claim of his.

I actually agree - if he was town it was an idiot gambit that does nothing. If he's scum, then he sure as hell shouldn't have backed off of it - it was good Wolf play.
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Post Post #6309 (isolation #751) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:37 am

Post by Thor665 »

My working theory could also explain why Slandaar got a burr up his backside when I kept pointing out how badly scum chose their shots.
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Post Post #6310 (isolation #752) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:37 am

Post by Thor665 »

It doesn't justify Nero's power fail game avoidance though.
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Post Post #6317 (isolation #753) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:40 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6307, Boonskiies wrote:I still felt that he could be mafia, but you gave a good argument, I guess. I did suspect him, as I said either you or him were the last wolf. If that's the case, we should just lynch Pine. We all universally agree pretty much that he is the wolf. Actually, you make a good point about mafia probably being in one of the neighborhoods. I don't think you'd bring it up if you were mafia, which helps me have even more confidence in my Nero mafia read.

I reversed a wagon on Pine to lynch Flubber and also reversed a semi wagon on Beast to lynch Reinoe - my chance of being Mafia is immensely minimal at this stage. Even DGB could see it, and when DGB clears thor os something you might as well mint it as pure obvious.

In post 6307, Boonskiies wrote:Pine/Slandaar, Nero. = scum. let's lynch Pine.

Explain the Nero = Mafia thing.
I am not there with you.
You need to start talking to people if you are town - that's how town wins games.
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Post Post #6319 (isolation #754) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:41 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6315, T S O wrote:This is EXACTLY like Completely Ridiculous where I fucked up in LyLo when I was the only town player posting and after days of Cephrir and AngryPidgeon posting I finally lost it and voted town.

But it all seems so clean and logical.

I will admit my paranoia is looking the gift horse in the mouth right now.
It feels too clean.
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Post Post #6321 (isolation #755) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:42 am

Post by Thor665 »

Let's get derp Slandaar to at least full claim - I'd like to be looking at all the cards on the table now rather than tomorrow. This is functional lylo for town so all claims should be in.
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Post Post #6323 (isolation #756) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:43 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6320, Boonskiies wrote:WAITT!!!! PINE CAN'T BE A VT LIKE HE CLAIMS!!!

there are 8 spots not in the neighborhoods.

2 are VT, 2 are town PR's, 2 are mafia slots that have flipped. The final two are werewolf slots. Pine/Slandaar are the werewolf team. no doubt about it.

Welcome to the conversation already in progress?

I'd like your Nero case now - unless you're dropping it to sheep my game analysis.
Heck - even if you're dropping it I'd like to hear it.
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Post Post #6324 (isolation #757) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:43 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6322, T S O wrote:
In post 6319, Thor665 wrote:
In post 6315, T S O wrote:This is EXACTLY like Completely Ridiculous where I fucked up in LyLo when I was the only town player posting and after days of Cephrir and AngryPidgeon posting I finally lost it and voted town.

But it all seems so clean and logical.

I will admit my paranoia is looking the gift horse in the mouth right now.
It feels too clean.


Do you think Aegor would make the set-up symmetrical like that?

I have no mod meta awareness of him - do you?
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Post Post #6326 (isolation #758) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:45 am

Post by Thor665 »

There will always be some symmetry to balance scumteams. That is the way of the game.
The question is 'how much'.

For all we know neighbor was a balance to Rolecop?
I'll also admit being a 'goon neighbor' as opposed to a 'neighbor' tends to support the theory of random neighbor allocation.
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Post Post #6328 (isolation #759) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:49 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6326, Thor665 wrote:I'll also admit being a 'goon neighbor' as opposed to a 'neighbor' tends to support the theory of random neighbor allocation.

My defeat to my own point is that all VT neighbors were 'town neighbors'.

@Boon - Okay, so like in a sentence or short paragraph or something; what's the case for Nero Mafia?
if it's just 'gut' then what the hell? On Game Day 5 you should have something to explain the gut or else you're just a low quality player. Where did the gut come from? What action? All gut means is inability to explain the reasoning - and that's on you.
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Post Post #6337 (isolation #760) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:54 am

Post by Thor665 »

@Boon - Why does that suggest him as Mafia as opposed to Wolf?

PEdit - your current spamming sucks, by the by.

@TSO - Justify the TSO = not mafia please?
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Post Post #6348 (isolation #761) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:04 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6342, T S O wrote:Well, Csareo and I argued so much that I got into a huge bitchfight, Csareo started referencing ongoing games and got force-replaced. Aside from that, Csareo's sudden mad interest in me makes no sense for scumbuddies in d1 of a large who know it's multiball.

That felt more personal than game related though, no?

In post 6342, T S O wrote:My position on Flubber's wagon also makes no sense because I had the option of pushing Pine or Flubber, and at that stage hated the game so chose Flubber.

Maybe.

In post 6342, T S O wrote:What about you?

Literally just noted them again a few moments ago. I was a ramrod in literally both Mafia lynches that were both either/or setups - so...if you like your choice of Flubber as proof you're not Mafia I have twice the credentials as you do on that sort of score. Also Reinoe was hunting me most of the game if you like your Csareo logic.
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Post Post #6351 (isolation #762) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:11 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I don't have a strong opinion on that.
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Post Post #6352 (isolation #763) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:12 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Above was at the Boon = not reinoe partner due to fake result thing.
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Post Post #6357 (isolation #764) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:37 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6353, Boonskiies wrote:It would have been a horrible move on Reinoe's part if I was his partner. I'm able to be lynched at any moment, and had I flipped mafia, it would have outed him instantly.

That doesn't matter - Reinoe was on a death timer from the second he claimed.

In post 6354, T S O wrote:It's, if not better, definitely as strong as
your
point about Flubber vs Pine - so why is it a maybe?

Because I reversed from town to scum whereas you supported a scum lynch early in a lazy way. One looks more like a potential bus in my opinion.

In post 6356, Pine wrote:Sticking with the Mafia claim would have been TERRIBLE Town play.

Sure - choosing to do it in the first place was TERRIBLE town play too, what of it?

In post 6356, Pine wrote:This doesn't make sense. I'm back to Thor/Boon. They're collaborating too much, and making setup spec assertions that can't be supported

I would dare say TSO and I are making more setup assertions than Boon - why does Boon look more like my scumbuddy to you?
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Post Post #6358 (isolation #765) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:38 pm

Post by Thor665 »

@Pine - you also haven't answered why my reaction to your gambit read as Wolf.
Could you do that now?
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Post Post #6364 (isolation #766) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:04 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6359, Pine wrote:Tell me Thor - what possible remote motive could I have had for withdrawing the Mafia claim as a Wolf?

WIFOM Mafia shot.
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Post Post #6366 (isolation #767) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:46 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I still look forward to you being off your phone so you can share your analysis.

When you do that - I also wouldn't mind your analysis of my theory on the game setup and people's reactions to it.
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Post Post #6368 (isolation #768) » Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:25 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Shocking - my setup spec doesn't include the idea I am scum. An amazing coincidence that never happens!

What do you think of the specific spec though?
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Post Post #6381 (isolation #769) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:27 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6372, Slandaar wrote:What is it about the 'gamestate' I should be commenting on?

Well...Pine's claim of Mafia was kind of a thing, followed by his claim that it was a gambit - a lot of people found that worth commenting on and I'm not even sure if you're aware it happened because you didn't.
Then there was my game setup spec - and the reactions to it.
Nero's power lurk.
Boon's case logic.
Nero's case clearing TSO of Wolf.
Thor's case clearing Nero of Wolf.
TSO's case clearing himself of Mafia.
Mod meta.

Y'know - 'the game'? That stuff - comments on it would have been/are nice.
Is this really so confusing that you need to ask for clarification on the concept? That is weird. Why did you need to ask this? <--- really want an answer, not rhetorical.

In post 6372, Slandaar wrote:Why did you decide not to respond to this;

Because your line of questioning is boring to me and appears to be going nowhere. i have indicated this thought to you in at least the last three or so rounds of your questioning - that last wall broke the camel's back as it were. It was of no interest to me at all to dance anymore.

In post 6372, Slandaar wrote:? Perhaps you could.

Please consider this an intentional dodge and react accordingly.

In post 6372, Slandaar wrote:It looks nice and symmetrical I will give you that but I am town and with this information the symmetry breaks.

So - please walk me through your alternate theory. Do you think Wolves had multiple neighbors and/or that Mafia had no neighbors? You seem to think I'm a wolf, that would give wolves 2x neighbors (and a mirrored roleblock of some extent unless you are claiming my PR as a lie) so why not discuss what your concept of the teams are in that mindset?

In post 6372, Slandaar wrote:It just so happens you can make a nice looking pattern with what has and hasn't flipped but do you actually believe they are useful Thor? I suspect no.

Why do you suspect no?

In post 6380, Nero Cain wrote:What I'm thinking right now is that mafia had no one in the hoods and here's why I think that: Boons is the scummist player in the hoods. Boons is either Slandaar's buddy or or doing a p good job of making me think he's his buddy. Wich faction still has buddies? the wolfs.

I see and understand the odd Pine/Thor obsession that makes Boon look like he's protecting someone who isn't Pine/Thor.
But, as a serious question, would you expect more sensible logic from Boon if he had a town alignment?
If the answer is 'yes' - why?
If the answer is 'no' - then how does this point really suggest Slandaar as scum?


I'd still really like to hear anyone's case clearing Slandaar of being a scumbuddy to any of the flipped scum.
@Slandaar - I would love to hear that question fielded by you also, if you can. Yes/no?
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Post Post #6387 (isolation #770) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:32 am

Post by Thor665 »

That's a bit tin-foil, though I follow the logic. Really the way a Mod should answer all setup spec questions is with 'I can't say' though - no other answer is apropos.

@Slandaar - would you care to discuss my note about role names and my theory of how it supports non-randomness?
Also - do you have any evidence that suggests you are not associated with either or both scum teams you could share?

Also, honestly, any thoughts you have on the following list would be nice;

Then there was my game setup spec - and the reactions to it.
Nero's power lurk.
Boon's case logic.
Nero's case clearing TSO of Wolf.
Thor's case clearing Nero of Wolf.
TSO's case clearing himself of Mafia.
Mod meta.

Also - Claim time - you should do it unless you'd like to explain to me how this isn't lylo for town.
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Post Post #6389 (isolation #771) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:15 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6387, Thor665 wrote:That's a bit tin-foil, though I follow the logic. Really the way a Mod should answer all setup spec questions is with 'I can't say' though - no other answer is apropos.

@Slandaar - would you care to discuss my note about role names and my theory of how it supports non-randomness?
Also - do you have any evidence that suggests you are not associated with either or both scum teams you could share?

Also, honestly, any thoughts you have on the following list would be nice;

Then there was my game setup spec - and the reactions to it.
Nero's power lurk.
Boon's case logic.
Nero's case clearing TSO of Wolf.
Thor's case clearing Nero of Wolf.
TSO's case clearing himself of Mafia.
Mod meta.

Also - Claim time - you should do it unless you'd like to explain to me how this isn't lylo for town.

@Slandaar - if you're intentionally not answering, claiming, and offering thoughts - please let me know. I give you that courtesy and I expect the same.
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Post Post #6391 (isolation #772) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:24 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6390, Pine wrote:Wolf Neighbors vs Mafia Power would be an interesting balance

If that was the balance, and I was a Wolf, I would hate the mod.
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Post Post #6395 (isolation #773) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:37 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6392, Pine wrote:That doesn't make it balanced. Neighbors plus 1-shot powers would make sense

Oh wait. You claimed a 1-shot

That would make me Mafia by your current theory - though no other Mafia had 1-shot powers. So what are you even arguing right now?
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Post Post #6396 (isolation #774) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:39 am

Post by Thor665 »

Oh, wait, no. You're claiming I, and my wolf partner, are 1-shot neighbors, and all wolves are neighbors, vs. Mafia who none of them are 1-shot or Neighbors.
Is that right?
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Post Post #6400 (isolation #775) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:48 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6387, Thor665 wrote:That's a bit tin-foil, though I follow the logic. Really the way a Mod should answer all setup spec questions is with 'I can't say' though - no other answer is apropos.

@Slandaar - would you care to discuss my note about role names and my theory of how it supports non-randomness?
Also - do you have any evidence that suggests you are not associated with either or both scum teams you could share?

Also, honestly, any thoughts you have on the following list would be nice;

Then there was my game setup spec - and the reactions to it.
Nero's power lurk.
Boon's case logic.
Nero's case clearing TSO of Wolf.
Thor's case clearing Nero of Wolf.
TSO's case clearing himself of Mafia.
Mod meta.

Also - Claim time - you should do it unless you'd like to explain to me how this isn't lylo for town.

@Slandaar - if you're intentionally not answering,
claiming
, and offering thoughts - please let me know. I give you that courtesy and I expect the same.
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Post Post #6403 (isolation #776) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:51 am

Post by Thor665 »

I now feel basically as confident on my Slandaar = scum as my Pine = scum read.

Both also remain logical scum for my setup spec.

Not sure about Nero/Boon for Mafia, I'll admit. I lean not TSO currently. I mildly lean not Boon on the logic of 'town is a bit weak without his claim being legit'.
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Post Post #6405 (isolation #777) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:53 am

Post by Thor665 »

@Pine
@Slandaar

Your top Mafia suspect currently is...?
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Post Post #6413 (isolation #778) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:53 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6406, Boonskiies wrote:I actually don't think we should talk about mafia anymore, unless we think we'll be lynching mafia toDay.

Figuring out who Mafia is will increase our accuracy of Wolf lynches - so...I disagree with this.

In post 6407, Pine wrote:I'm saying Rolecop/Roleblock + Goon would be balanced against Neighbors who have some other powers. 1-shot Jailkeep and 2-shot BP would be balanced against the Mafia power we've seen

Leaves town grossly underpowered though, in my opinion.
You disagree?

In post 6408, Pine wrote:I still think your setup spec is self-serving. It is designed to support a notion you've already arrived at

I agree - I arrived at my conclusion of who was scummy via scumhunting and then used the setup spec to discern who I thought was which alignment.
That actually seems pretty functional to my mind, really.

In post 6409, Slandaar wrote:Pine->TSO

Why does this really matter?

1. How does it not matter?
2. I think you're a Wolf so I'm very interested in your thoughts on who Mafia is.

In post 6409, Slandaar wrote:What does matter is you or Boon explaining to me why you think Pine isn't mafia/is a wolf. Yet both of you have failed to answer this. I assume you can explain why?

This is the first time you've asked me.
I have provided extensive reasoning for suspecting he is scum - are you utterly unaware of it?
My reasoning for thinking he's a Wolf is based on my setup spec - are you unaware of it?

In post 6410, Slandaar wrote:What wasn't clear in my previous response?

Was your "previous response" post 6401? I thought that was at Boon.
If it wasn't - then I missed your previous response - link or post number?
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Post Post #6414 (isolation #779) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:54 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6398, Slandaar wrote:
In post 6389, Thor665 wrote:@Slandaar - if you're intentionally not answering,

Intend to address some of it at some point.

Ah, here it is.

Okay.

When?
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Post Post #6415 (isolation #780) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:54 am

Post by Thor665 »

Because - what the hell. derpa-lurk?
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Post Post #6420 (isolation #781) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:27 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6418, Slandaar wrote:
In post 6186, Thor665 wrote:Nah - I find that unlikely, his play works fine for Wolf and, in my opinion, moreso than Mafia.

So, it's not just the Setup spec.

Clarify?

Wagon analysis.
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Post Post #6423 (isolation #782) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:42 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6416, Slandaar wrote:The pattern nonsense?

That is it?

I see.

Y'know, you and Pine are really wringing hands about this idea of mine without paying much attention to the actual reactions to it outside of trying to vaguely sell me on being an idiot/scum for thinking I'm right.

I have Boon and TSO bought in to it, and I'm not a likely Mafia, so that really starts to twist what alignments the other two theoretically are at that stage.
Nero (an unlikely Wolf) is also at least buying into the idea that the setup spec has merit though he seems to maybe disagree with my conclusions. So, again, what relational alignment does that bring into the play?
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Post Post #6424 (isolation #783) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:42 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6422, Slandaar wrote:
In post 6420, Thor665 wrote:Wagon analysis.

:]

Last time you showed me a VC it had 7 votes and you were like 'look no mafia gotta be Boon!'. Do you have any actual 'wagon analysis'?

I still suspect Boon of being Mafia, so...?
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Post Post #6426 (isolation #784) » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:45 am

Post by Thor665 »

Honestly, Pine's reaction feels the most town of the pair of you even if he is then having to sell a weak town setup because he needs both Boon+Thor to be wolves to justify his stance.
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Post Post #6453 (isolation #785) » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:51 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6427, Slandaar wrote:He was 7th on a wagon where there are no other mafia present. It's incredibly weak reasoning.

Show me this wagon analysis.

I have already - that's why you're calling it weak over and over, because you saw it and decided it was weak. Why do you want to see it again, have you forgotten why you are calling it weak or something?

In post 6429, Pine wrote:I'm back to him being the most likely Mafia candidate. Boon threw me for a bit, but his reversion to collaborating with you and my version of setup spec puts it back to Thor/Boon vs Slandaar

Why do you think Slandaar makes sense as Mafia?

In post 6439, Nero Cain wrote:yes...no...idk. My one game with him his night actions were really bad and he just sorta gave up and stopped defending himself when he got ran up. Part of me wants to say "yes" he'd have better logic as town 'cause I think there's a load of scum motivation to push one person over another.

:neutral:
This feels immensely empty to me - why are you okay with it as your thought process and conclusion reasoning?

In post 6439, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 6403, Thor665 wrote:Not sure about Nero/Boon for Mafia,

Did you not see Ren trying to lynch the Smurf out of me and me leading a lynch on Flubber?

I'm not sure I saw either situation.

Going back and looking - calling your push on Flubber 'leading' is a massive stretch. You're either lying to me or lying to yourself if you believe that.
Looking at Reinoe I see a temporary push where he was trying to connect us as buddies (which makes sense to do as a bus to a scumbuddy you) and another period during the claim deal where (at a stage he was already dead and on a timer) he kind of soft batted at you. Some of his commentary there feels slightly non-buss-ish, but I don't get a clean clear read from it myself.
That's all I got from those two points - am I overlooking/misrepping something?
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Post Post #6455 (isolation #786) » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:06 am

Post by Thor665 »

So the Slandaar case is based off him being the scummiest of 'not Thor and Boon'.

Are you going to explain how my reaction made me look like a Wolf yet?
You sort of keep ducking that - or are you still not at a computer?
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Post Post #6458 (isolation #787) » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:21 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6456, Pine wrote:No, it isn't 'based on that.' I'm not Mafia-hunting today, you are. Lynching Mafia loses the game for us and wins the game for you. Slandaar is my best offhand guess, and I'll look at it closer if the necessity arises. Day 6, if we get one, will be a massively changed landscape

The ONLY way that Mafia-hunting will be productive, for the entire rest of the game, is if we lynch Wolf, a Wolf gets shot, and Mafia doesn't get shot. Even then, half the player list, possibly myself included, will be gone.

So I'm not putting a lot of effort in until I need to

As mentioned to Boon - Mafia hunting will increase the odds of lynching Wolf just as much as Town hunting. Ruling out a lynch option is very useful for finding a Wolf. I wish both of you would grow some brains/stop being scummy and stop acting like refusing to figure out who Mafia is somehow translates as pro-town play at this stage.

You still didn't answer me about the Thor=Wolf reaction question either.
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Post Post #6460 (isolation #788) » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:32 am

Post by Thor665 »

Yes, I agree, 'not a wolf' is useful.
Oddly, we have relational information for Mafia that we lack for town. Crazy that.
Also, we have scummy looking people that need to be sorted as either wolf or not a wolf - again, maiking spotting the Mafia useful.

In any case - again - what was my wolf reaction? Are you intentionally ducking responding to this question?
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Post Post #6461 (isolation #789) » Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:33 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6455, Thor665 wrote:Are you going to explain how my reaction made me look like a Wolf yet?
You sort of keep ducking that - or are you still not at a computer?
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Post Post #6463 (isolation #790) » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:54 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6462, Pine wrote:TL;DR is that you got all frenzied, pried for a bunch of information, and didn't actually let up much despite mouthing the words about a Mafia vote being anti-Town.

1. I got 'frenzied'? How? And also, how is that scummy?
2. I agree, I pried for information - this is...scummy? I thought that was called 'scumhunting'?
3. I didn't let up much...despite flat out saying you weren't the lynch and having both Boon and TSO declare me as your Wolf buddy for protecting you from them while both of them insisted you were still the lynch...and *I* am the one you saw as not letting up? Explain that to me a bit more.
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Post Post #6478 (isolation #791) » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:23 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6478, Pine wrote:they never EVER consider voting for one another

Whut?

Have you even read this or last day phase?
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Post Post #6480 (isolation #792) » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:27 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I don't think Boon is a Wolf - why should I?
Also, nice continued dodge - if you're Mafia or town you're playing poorly.
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Post Post #6483 (isolation #793) » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:19 pm

Post by Thor665 »

You dodged discussing how you either lied about Boon's and my voting habits or just weren't reading anything.

What evidence for Boon Wolf have I ignored?
I am unaware of you presenting any case for him that doesn't have its basis in "Thor + Boon are in lockstep!" which means your case is predicated on;
1. That Boon and I are in lockstep (which we aren't)
2. That I am a Wolf.

I'm not sure why you expect me to give that case attention. Is there something I'm missing?
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Post Post #6485 (isolation #794) » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:44 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6484, Pine wrote:I made a case on Boon, independent of you, near day start. This was well before I noticed that you and he were subtly working together ("lockste" is your word and a gross exaggeration of my point). Read please. I do not have the patience to pull the quotes you're too lazy (and too scum) to go read

:neutral:

Why not restate it anyway?
Because no one appears to agree with you, and if you think he's scum it's kind of important to sell the case.
I am clearly not the only person not reading/remembering/caring about it due to scumminess/laziness/forgetfulness/non-convinced-ness.

In post 6484, Pine wrote:I didn't dodge anything. I really have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Rephrase the question in a non-stupid manner

Oooookay.

You said Boon and I refuse to vote each other.
I am calling you a flat out liar/a person not reading the game if you believe this to be true.
What is your response to my commentary in that regard? Are you standing by your commentary - or do you wish to rephrase it?
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Post Post #6486 (isolation #795) » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:45 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I'll even go so far as to point out that, in my belief, Boon spent the first half of this phase trying to lynch me.
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Post Post #6490 (isolation #796) » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:28 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6485, Thor665 wrote:
In post 6484, Pine wrote:I made a case on Boon, independent of you, near day start. This was well before I noticed that you and he were subtly working together ("lockste" is your word and a gross exaggeration of my point). Read please. I do not have the patience to pull the quotes you're too lazy (and too scum) to go read

:neutral:

Why not restate it anyway?
Because no one appears to agree with you, and if you think he's scum it's kind of important to sell the case.
I am clearly not the only person not reading/remembering/caring about it due to scumminess/laziness/forgetfulness/non-convinced-ness.

In post 6484, Pine wrote:I didn't dodge anything. I really have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Rephrase the question in a non-stupid manner

Oooookay.

You said Boon and I refuse to vote each other.
I am calling you a flat out liar/a person not reading the game if you believe this to be true.
What is your response to my commentary in that regard? Are you standing by your commentary - or do you wish to rephrase it?

@Pine - when you asked me 'what dodge?' I meant this sort of stuff - where I ask you questions and you act like I don't exist. That's a dodge.
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Post Post #6496 (isolation #797) » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:22 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6493, Pine wrote:Thor, I don't answer
inane
questions that are entirely opinion and interpretation based in the first place. When you go off about something I can prove, I'm more than happy to wallpost

Eat proof, wolf

:neutral:

Okay, so now we're going from 'never voted each other' to 'never voted each other in a way I believe looked to have intent'.
He also forced a claim out of me.
And then had Scripten mock him for his logic in pushing it.
Your theory is we're all wolves for that one too, huh?
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Post Post #6506 (isolation #798) » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:14 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6496, Thor665 wrote:Okay, so now we're going from 'never voted each other' to 'never voted each other in a way I believe looked to have intent'.
He also forced a claim out of me.
And then had Scripten mock him for his logic in pushing it.
Your theory is we're all wolves for that one too, huh?
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Post Post #6507 (isolation #799) » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:16 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 6505, Slandaar wrote:I need to work unfortunately but I do have a fantastic case I have put together over the last few days on Thor/Boon to write up this evening. Then we can all sit around and have a nice discussion and finally lynch.

I look forward to that, we've been on hold for some time for you to offer thoughts and for Pine to find a computer.
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