Micro 438: Greatest Idea Mafia - Game Over

[eyestott]

I am the true first.
VOTE: Guille2016

[eyestott]

Guille, why get rid of cop?

[eyestott]

I mean, cop is like, one of the last ones I'd throw away.

[eyestott]

Hi! I'm town!

[eyestott]

Though, that's what everyone says, so you have no reason to believe me.

[eyestott]

Guille, why get rid of cop?

Doesn't Vanilla cop only return vanilla and non-vanilla?

In which case it's a terrible role because everyone in totally going to take a PR.

Ah, ok. I misunderstood the role.
Do you want other people not to vote, or....

[eyestott]

btw, not voting for a reason.

Can you name that reason?

If he wanted to tell us, he would have told us.

[eyestott]

btw, not voting for a reason.

Can you name that reason?

I'm thread diving.

At the moment. I have someone i am sure is town. And I have someone who I think is likely scum.

Nevermind.

[eyestott]

Evangelistic shows up as cult.
Cult miller.

[eyestott]

I'm thinking its either myself or Diego thats the likely scum? It's Diego, right?
Right?
RIGHT?

[eyestott]

To be honest, before the reroll, I was a werewolf enabler.
I generally prefer playing as scum over town, but there are some town roles (I think my role might be one, but i havent played it before) that are exceptions.

[eyestott]

RVS.
I'm willing to sheep Diego, but definitely not till he explains.

[eyestott]

Yeah.

[eyestott]

Wait, no. Don't worry.

[eyestott]

Ignore this post and the 3 before it, and replace it with just "RVS"

[eyestott]

As in, my posts.

[eyestott]

Actually, that's a good question for everyone.
Eh. Claim?

[eyestott]

I took alignment from retired werewolf hunter.

[eyestott]

Ok, I'll be honest. I don't know what the difference is.

You don't know the difference?
Intent to hammer, ok?

[eyestott]

Bull, I'm a cop. The chance of you also being a cop is slim.
I want to hammer.

[eyestott]

should I really?

[eyestott]

I will hammer when I get out of the shower, unless he becomes obvtown.

[eyestott]

Damnit guille. Get back on him. I have to be the hammerer. It needs to be poetic.
He obviously hasn't read his role pm if he is cop.

[eyestott]

Also, my last completed scum game had me fakebreadcrumbing flavour cop for the first two days.
He's scum.
I had no need to breadcrumb. Why did he?

[eyestott]

id rather hammer now, as Its 1:29 am.
I'm going to hammer in (expired on 2015-01-15 10:45:02).

[eyestott]

That should be plenty of time for everyone to comment. ;p

[eyestott]

You like me don't you espe.
You're obviously in love with me. <3

[eyestott]

It?

[eyestott]

You like me don't you espe.
You're obviously in love with me. <3

You're my second to top scumread of the people that have posted a decent amount so far this game. And by that I mean I am townreading you but the others are just percentage chance more likely to be town.

Okay.

[eyestott]

It?

If you trust me, don't ask.

But Why should I trust you? This is my first game with you. Well, just you.

[eyestott]

im putting off vote for a few minutes.
In your pm, do you determine guilt, or mafianess?

[eyestott]

I expect an answer in the next minute.

[eyestott]

Not within a minute.

[eyestott]

okay,my hats what I've got. Still, you might not nessesarily be town, even if you are cop (unlikely).

V0te: Diego

So, what are you really?

[eyestott]

Actually, gambit is noticeable.

Vote:Diego

[eyestott]

Bull, I'm a cop. The chance of you also being a cop is slim.
I want to hammer.

Why would I claim the one role that got me in trouble? Look if you are a cop, we can decimate scum with investigation. Also, you can investigate me tonight, and it'll show

I'm at town

. Lynch me tomorrow if I lied.

Contradiction.

[eyestott]

stott, make the vote in a post entirely in allcaps. Harder to see.

VOTE: Diego

HAMMER:DIEGO
END LIFE OF SCUM:DIEGO
HANG:DIEGO

happy?

[eyestott]

Oh, like V0TE?

[eyestott]

Ooh mod is here.

[eyestott]

I investigated guille last night.
With an unknown amount of antitowns, I propose a mass claim.
As I have already claimed, I will popcorn to guille.

[eyestott]

What? I claimed yesterday. I'm a town cop.
Oh, I should've said I got a "not mafia" for guille.

[eyestott]

Bull, I'm a cop. The chance of you also being a cop is slim.
I want to hammer.

[eyestott]

you're on thin ice.
I change my popcorn to you.
Full claim.

[eyestott]

Oh, I should've said I got a "not mafia" for guille.

As I have already claimed, I will popcorn to guille.

So not only do you want to push a massclaim, even before everyone has posted and you basically quickhammered a town cop.
you also popcorn (as in force to come up with a lie before other claims are in the open, thus more likely to be caught) the person you have a not-guilty on? (yes mafia-only but still).

That really makes sense.
Also

Especially after how that hammer went down

Indeed, not just the hammer though.
Is there any one who can look at that lynch and conclude it was not scum-driven?

So diego was scum because he, a new player, should have known town should not have the need to breadcrumb?

VOTE: eyestott
Should you breadcrumb

How about no

just to be clear: this is the correct answer

I want to push a mass claim because we have no idea how many scum there are. For all we know, this could be mylo/lylo. I chose guille because he was active on day one, and he was one of the most likely people to be here.
It would be funny if we lynched both town cops in a row.
No, that's not even a main reason why he was lynched. There was only a very small chance in my eyes that he was a cop, because I knew I was one.

[eyestott]

So, we shouldn't massclaim?
Why not? We have 6 people, and we've lost two town already.

[eyestott]

We have lost two town.
1 through the lynch, and 1 last night.
Please rephrase that post, as I did not understand it.

[eyestott]

Don't you think it's possible that towncopeyestott could have taken the chance and lynched him?

[eyestott]

Hey everyone. I havent read up yet, but this game is low priority at the moment as I'm near deadline for a bunch of my games.
Apologies.

[eyestott]

Ill be here soon, Ive just got 1 game very close to EOD now.

[eyestott]

(back to the post i was actually writing)
ow and to what extend you believe 'town should know, breadcrumbing is useless, yet he did -> must be scum' was a factor in his lynch, is completely irrelevant.

Fact remains: you made that argument knowing fully well it wasn't true.
After all you are a more experienced player than he is, have experience regarding breadcrumbing in particular
AND STILL felt the need to start a discussion-thread to figure out the proper way to handle breadcrumbs.
there is no way you genuinely believed a player less experienced than you should know 'breadcrumbing role as town isn't helpful'

Look back. I never said that him breadcrumbing was a point against him. I said that my most recent experience was me fakecrumbing. I meant that breadcrumbing doesnt automatically make it so.
The reason I made the discussion thread was because breadcrumbing was being discussed in the AAR of an offsite game, and being the only player in that game to also be an active member of MS, I decided to make that post on behalf of the whole game, not just myself. To be honest, I havent really kept up with that thread.
I never said I believed that last sentence.

You were pushing a false case and are therefore the proud holder of my vote.

As in, I was wrong, so I'm scum?

Also would you kindly justify the detail you just conveniently skipped:
the 'popcorn order' is 'most scummy(one who is most likely to have to come up with a fakeclaim) first(as to rob them of the claims of those who answer truthfully)'
you you chose to consider the person you have a COP-INNOCENT on as the most likely to be scum who has yet to reveal.
WHY?

Well, I had already pretty much figured out Espeonage's role (I was right, seeing his claim), and Guille is someone I know. I wanted to get discussion going quickly, so i chose one of the most active players of yesterday. In hindsight, I realise I should have chosen someone else. The problem is, no one else had posted enough for me to have a read on them. Also, Cop Innocent in this game doesnt mean complete innocence.

Don't you think it's possible that towncopeyestott could have taken the chance and lynched him?

Sorry could you rephrase this one.
Either i don't follow or it screams: "but i would have done the same if i were town"

No, I'm saying: Okay, you can see a scum motivation for my actions. Do you see a town motivation?

Hey everyone. I havent read up yet, but this game is low priority at the moment as I'm near deadline for a bunch of my games.
Apologies.

Any indication when there might fall a hole in that moment?
i'm not asking when those deadlines are (as i know it is against the rules to discuss those and i already know)
i'm asking when you might be bothered to address things like:

- hammer for poetry
- why did you counter-claim cop when you could have just hammered?
- why did you popcorn to your innocent?

O dear lynch-leader.
i might even consider dropping issues like
- defense by same poetry
- disappearance act at time of lynch-leader

I'm here(ish) now. None are EOD, one of them resulted in a loss because I chose wrong as a Conf.town in lylo.
However, I am pretty busy ATM because I'm in the last 11 hours of signups for my first real modded game (offsite), and I still need one more person by then or my game will be moved to the bottom of the queue, so I have been and will be trying to get more people before then.
What i meant by "hammer for poetry" is taht, in my eyes, the hammerer is the person who actually ends the discussion. I was saying "I'm so confident that He's fakeclaiming that I should be the one to hammer".
Ive hardly been the lynch leader today.
To be honest, I wasnt thinking when i claimed. I should have just hammered, but, having never had someone claim my role before, I pretty much automatically CC'ed.


I will get to your 219 soon, its mostly correct, but not completely.

[eyestott]

Espeonage: I investigated Guille and got not mafia.

[eyestott]

Okay, I'm just going to look through the Role list and see if there is a plausible explanation to me getting a result even when i was supposedly roleblocked.

[eyestott]

So, either I'm lying, slimer is lying, or he was roleblocked or re-directed.

[eyestott]

@Slimer, why would Town fake being a cop? It doesn't make sense for you to have a PR reason for doubting his cop claim and still think he's Town.

I agree. I really think that he should be scumreading me if he actually blocked me.

[eyestott]

Who would you kill right now, if you had to kill right now?

[eyestott]

What were your three cards?
Espeonage too.
In fact, everyone, what were your three cards?

[eyestott]

Well, if slimer is town, technically, the most likely scenario is that i'm scum, and vice versa, so i understand your desire.

[eyestott]

I had town cop, retired werewolf hunter, and VT.

[eyestott]

@eyestott

• 1: given how you seem to be the only one remotely interested in actually defending the notion 'the D1-quicklynch could have been a genuine town-process', i'm looking forward to the 'not completely correct' aspects of my 219
  
• 2: what is your reason (given your apparent believe you are dipoled with slimer) for not voting him?
  
• 3: why (given how you popcorned to your top innocent for 'fast discussion') did you push the mass-claim at all and why DID you call for others to withhold their claims (direct consequence of popcorn)
  
• 4:

  Look back. I never said that him breadcrumbing was a point against him. I said that my most recent experience was me fakecrumbing. I meant that breadcrumbing doesnt automatically make it so.

  
  Are you really trying to convince me this:

  Also, my last completed scum game had me fakebreadcrumbing flavour cop for the first two days.
  He's scum.
  I had no need to breadcrumb. Why did he?

  was not a point against him?
  
  5:

• As in, I was wrong, so I'm scum?

  No, as in, you were well aware your case was BS and pushed it anyway. For one: see the point above. For more, please answer my question about 219
  6:

• No, I'm saying: Okay, you can see a scum motivation for my actions. Do you see a town motivation?

  First, it is not my job to find a reason why what you did, might come from a town mindset. It is yours to present the town mindset which was actually behind it if someone presents a possible scum-explanation.
  Second: NO, i do not see a town motivation for a cop to claim when neither 'the cop himself is in no danger to get lynched' nor 'the
  fakeclaimer
  has a reasonable shot at escaping the lynch' nor 'the cop has any results to share'

1: Yeah, I will get to that. I have to go out to an interview to get my Tax File Number soon, but ill do that when I get back.
2: Because I dont have all the facts. I learnt my lesson from yesterday.
3: Ive pushed for a massclaim, because today could possibly be mylo. I thought that popcorning was the standard?
4: I'm not trying to convince you it wasn't, I'm just telling you. It wasnt a point in his favour, but it wasnt a point against him. It was irrelevant.
5: How am I well aware of that?
6: Huh, thats a good point. I really shouldnt have claimed. This isnt a scumclaim. I honestly did not think of not CCing, which is immensely stupid.

[eyestott]

the 'case' against diego(hey look, he just got promoted: no longer listed as 'goon'):

• this christmas votes diego (rvs). (his only vote the entire game)
  
• diego rvs-votes
  
• alchemist votes diego (rvs)
  
• espeonage votes diego (for wagon)
  
• eyestott claims he will 'rvs-sheep diego but not until he explains' (something that has already been explained, by eyestott himself no less) then asks us to forget this ever happened
  
• diego fails to check motivation of his unvote when placing a new vote, gets called
  Contrived
  for it. (empty addition of pressure i assume)
  
• guile puts diego at L-1, with a partial reveal demand because 'as esp pointed out crappy discard' (nope, didn't happen, did it?, guille explain(again i do see an explanation, but don't believe you could do worse)) and pulled a newbie, by staying in rvs for no reason
  
• espeonage adds pressure by pointing out the
  Contrived vote
  is on practically confirmed town (more of a newbie tell than a scum-tell if you ask me)
  
• espeonage and eyestott both consider 'not knowing the difference between cop and vanilla-cop' a
  lynch-worthy-offence
  
  
• eyestott makes his intent to hammer explicit (after already demanding a claim, which received a 'not within 24 hours please')
  
• diego claims having chosen cop over mason
  
• espeonage calls BS: having a strong role the second you need a claim, also cop was the wrong choice (again scum because newbie-mistake(that wasn't there but that's not the issue))
  
• espeonage calls 'cop wouldn't call cop-discard 'meh' '
  
• eyestott counterclaims and asks permission to hammer (which he instantly receives)
  
• Diego asks and receives(esp) explanation of the difference between vanilla/regular cop
  
• eyestott asks permission to hammer AGAIN (acknowledges having received the previous permission) from the very same person (again received instantly)
  
• diego reveals crumbs and calls eyestott to investigate him
  
• guille dismisses crumbs as newbie-useless
  
• espeonage calls diego's cop claim 'based on discussion on how good the cop actually is' (when calling for 'no investigation on me, protection over there')
  
• guille unvotes because of crumbs
  
• espeonage says: crumb? shrug, i don't buy it
  
• guille actually advocates against the diego-lynch
  
• espeonage claims one who doesn't think cops are such a big deal would have taken mason, which are super obviously awesome (which they aren't: awesome: debatable, obvious: absolutely not(by the rules practically guaranteed to be useless actually))
  
• guille actually cracks the case: diego is a newbie
  
• eyestott demands guilles vote on diego because poetry
  
• espeonage counters newbie argument with 'mason is listed everywhere as super obviously awesome, ESPECIALLY a newbie would pick this': espeonage please find me this 'no way a newbie would have missed this'-location which states mason>>cop, i can assure you, the rules state otherwise.
  
• eyestott claims 'the need to breadcrumb' is reason to convict:
  despite having started a discussion thread about this subject himself (thus knowing fully well, this not being obvious to newbies. The moment this game ends, this story goes to that thread)
  
• guille disagrees with mason>>cop but places his vote back regardless (later revealed because he was convinced super-short days are good: still waiting on the why of that one)
  
• guille calls for time to allow others to respond (receives instant no from both esp and eye)
  
• eyestott claims hammer, yet grands another 'time to post'
  
• diego requests tips for next game (genuine newbie stuff) receives(esp), nope you need to be hammered first(go read on how to fakeclaim)
  
• eyestott tests diego's role PM, diego passes
  
• eyestott pulls a vote-gambit (the detail it wouldn't work by rules is hardly relevant)
  
• eyestott HAMMERS diego for not lying(admitting he noticed the gambit)

If anyone sees a misrepresentation here, please point them out (if not please say so explicitly)

Where did I say that was lynchworthy?
I never said it was a reason to convict.
I didnt hammer him for not lying, I hammered him because I though he was scum.

[eyestott]

X-post:
I'm going to my best friends Birthday party today, and then I'm going to sleep, and then I'm going out to enrole for my course. I will be back in approximately 24 hours.

[eyestott]

Huh. Wow. Great call, Alchemist.

[eyestott]

He still
1 Claimed cop, for the sake of claiming cop
2 Pushed a lynch for no reason better than poetry
3 Went through quite some length to be seen as reasonable on the diego-hammer without allowing it to walk away from him
4 Vanished when he was the only one with votes(ok 1 vote) on him
5 Surprisingly didn't vote slimer despite the dipole they were in

1: I made a mistake, and claimed impulsively. Okay, that warrants suspicion.
2: No. You dont believe that, and no one else does.
3: Where? Explain.
4: Do you actually think this is scum indicative?
5: I learnt my lesson. You know, that what looks to be a contradiction isn't necessarily one?

[eyestott]

Grow, when you're in 6 or so games, and a bunch of them are near deadline, do you spend more time in them?

[eyestott]

What I mean is, do you prioritise your games depending on the state of them?

[eyestott]

Why mention it then? That's just passive aggressive.

[eyestott]

I KNEW IT

[eyestott]

HA.

[eyestott]

It was just chance, and my fault. I erroneously thought you were scum, as I was a cop.

[eyestott]

What do you mean?

[eyestott]

Yes.