Micro 441: Less Pressure

[Huntress]

No wagon yet?

Vote: Pine

[Huntress]

I'm going to be following the wishes of the innocent children this game, and everyone else should do the same.

Why? They actually know slightly less than we do.

Yeah no

This is the scum, here. Disavowing responsibility and hedging his bets

We've all had a fun RVS, but it's time to play for reals now

But no vote?

I was thinking of switching to Dry-fit after 16, but now I'm happy with where my vote is.

[Huntress]

Vote: Dry-fit

[Huntress]

Not really, more like random voting stage post position. Xayzeck voted Pine and was the third vote on the wagon in Post 14. What was Xayzeck's purpose here? Was it a pressure vote? If so, it kind of sucks since the wagon's built on pillars on sand and likely to crumble anyway, not giving much pressure. There's a few explanations, but I think one is slightly more likely than the others. The style of Xayzeck's post imitates the style of xRECKONERx's Post 12 and Huntress' Post 11: short vote posts without reason. He made the post to blend in.

From that first wagon I'm more inclined to think it's ++-- for

not

putting the third vote on Pine there. Xayzeck did what I might have done in his position. The rest of ++--'s posts show a continued avoidance of getting involved.

I'm a bit uneasy about Dry-fit - possible buddying there?

I didn't like Pine's 17. The last line felt a bit forced.

That's all I've got really. I was thinking either Dry-fit or Pine plus one of Jingle and Xayzeck but I have town reads on them so far so it could be there's some three-way distancing going on. However, with three out of five being scum I'm not putting too much weight on the town reads yet.

Strongest read so far is ++--.

Vote: ++--

[Huntress]

If I'd wanted an easy wagon I could have stayed on Dry-fit, or moved to Xayzeck following the IC's, rather than opening myself to criticism by following the most recent votes. But I think Xayzeck may be town and I was split between Dry and Pine, so I moved to a stronger scum read.

What are your reads on Jingle and Xayzeck?

Possible buddying where?

It was sparked by your 41 immediately after I voted you. Your comments about following the ICs also fed into it (but you backed that up in 86 so I'm less bothered about that now).

[Huntress]

About Jingle, I could surely see his play coming from scum motivation. I'd say that he is leaning towards scum. I'm not really sure what to think about Xay. His page one L-2 would be a bold move from scum, but at the same time, it would also be a strange move from town, and that was by far his most remarkable move in this game so far, so let's say that I don't really have a read on him.

Why would it be a strange move from town? Page one wagons aren't that unusual.

[Huntress]

11 has a surface appearance of trying to generate discussion and reads, but there's no real follow through.

Are you kidding me? If not please explain what you're getting at here in the view of the context of this particular post.

19 begins by marginalizing the ICs' reads, which I find suspect. Then she pushes Pine for what appears to be no reason. The idea that scum Pine is in any way more reluctant to vote when he pushes people than town pine is is alien to me.

You find questioning and probing to get reads "suspect" and "for no reason"?

40 is a switch off of Pine when the momentum there seems to be stalling and TTH started pushing at Xay. There's no reasoning or content, and I don't see anything from Pine that I think would have changed her mind if her original read was genuine.

The wagon had served it's purpose in starting things moving. Pine responded without fuss to my 19 so I moved on to Dry-fit as I had said I was thinking of doing earlier. As you can see from my 82, the read on Pine is still there but it's not strong enough to lock on to.

Further, she'd been inactive for almost two days when I posted, which itself was cause for concern when the big problem with the thread is lack of activity.

Life happens. It is

not

an alignment tell.

Huntress, if you'd be so kind as to respond to 103 I'd love to read it.

Attempting to make it look like I'm ignoring your post, are you?


I'm guessing it's ++--, Jingle and Pine in the library with the candlestick. Pine is the least certain of those.

[Huntress]

I'll catch up with this in the morning.

[Huntress]

I'm guessing it's ++--, Jingle and Pine in the library with the candlestick. Pine is the least certain of those.

My guess is Jingle, Xayzeck, and Dry-Fit in the conservatory with a tuba.

I think I'm closer.

I'm fine with Jingle if we can't get the the votes for ++--, although after rereading again I think Pine may be better.

As for whether or not I'm willing to lynch ++--, as I've said I think it should be up to the ICs to decide. If it were up to me he'd be my top choice.

He's at L-4 now (L-3 when you last posted) so your previous reason for not voting him doesn't hold any more.

@ Pine:

You seem to be the only one who hasn't got an opinion on ++--. How do you read him? In fact, you haven't said much about anyone except for Dry-fit and have mainly been reacting to IC posts rather than interacting with non-ICs. Where do you stand on Jingle and Xayzeck?

[Huntress]

Combine that with a lack of follow through on questioning Pine, and the picture she paints is not pretty.

I followed it up 17 and 82. Please tell what else he did there that called for followup at that time?

I find accusations with no basis in reality suspect, yes. If you're trying to build a read out of toothpicks, you're not gonna get a real read. You're gonna get a stack of toothpicks. Tell me again who is more concerned with making it look like they're looking for alignments than actually figuring things out. Unless you're Titus. Are you Titus? Or, if there's a logical basis behind the questioning, please share it with me.

At that stage I had little more than toothpicks, so I have to use what's available. You'd be surprised what you can build with them. At the least it gives us something to look back on after we start getting flips. Tell me again who is more concerned with making it look like others are making it look like they're looking for alignments than actually figuring things out?

And as you can see from my post 104, I'd like to know why. What did Pine do that made him less wagon-worthy? What did Dry-Fit do that made him more wagon-worthy? What about Pine's response to 19 was so compelling? They why is very important Huntress. In fact, it's more important than the what.

Most of that is explained in 19. I didn't have a problem with Pine's response so I went ahead with the delayed vote change.

[Huntress]

In a shameless appeal to convince you(all) of my towniness, let me ask you this: Does it feel to you like I'm coordinating with anyone in this game? Because I don't feel like I'm on the same wavelength as anyone. Maybe Huntress sort of but not really.

I've got this niggling feeling that you're a wolf in sheep's clothing but I can't really point to anything that backs that up.

[Huntress]

One thing that bothers me about Dry-fit is that he continues to find reasons to avoid voting ++--, even though he is apparently his strongest scumread.

[Huntress]

Hmm... I've been thinking, and my thoughts take me thisaway:

Vote: Pine

[Huntress]

Bussing is stupid in this setup.

There is definitely bussing going on.

I'm inclined to think Xay is bussing Pine at the moment.

[Huntress]

I'm out for a bit now but I should be back in about two and a half hours so I'll be around to move my vote if necessary.

[Huntress]

Evidence for the bussing is that there is no possible group of three remaining where none of them have voted for either of the others.

That it's Xay bussing Pine? No real evidence for that, just a gut feeling.

Individually I think Pine is the scummier of the two.

[Huntress]

Actually I forgot that the deadline doesn't really matter in this game. The only downside to ignoring it is that the game might stagnate so we'll need to watch that.

[Huntress]

Dry-Fit or ++--, I could see Huntress. Her votes have been pretty bad

So you think my voting for the two people you think are scum is bad? Only other person I've voted is you so I can understand you might not like that.

[Huntress]

Vote: Xayzeck

Not the votes themselves, per se, but your reasoning and timing have felt quite a bit off. It's a common scum assertion that, just because they've voted scummy people, that that automatically makes their reasons scummy. It ain't true

I haven't gotten much significant vibe from Xayzeck. Sell me on why he's scummy?

That second sentence doesn't make sense. What did you actually mean there?

As for Xay, it's just a gut feeling, as I said earlier.

[Huntress]

Huntress has been just a bit too wagon happy for my liking, though, and the origins of the Xayzeck vote are a little iffy. Making a generalized statement "Someone is being bussed" is hardly conclusive proof that Xayzeck is bussing Pine and "gut feeling" isn't exactly doing it for me.

You're taking that out of context there. My "There is definitely bussing going on." statement was in response to Jingle's comment. I said it because I had been looking for a group that weren't voting for each other and I found there wasn't one. I said that there was no real evidence Xay was bussing so I don't know where your "conclusive proof" wording came from. I never claimed it was.

My point was that the fact that Xay was voting my preferred lynch, Pine, didn't mean that Xay wasn't scum.

I would still prefer to lynch Pine first but at the end of Day one I was the only person, other than Xay, who was interested in that.

[Huntress]

I'm waiting on Huntress to give me a reason why she is where she is right now because from my point of view, it looks rather strained. She has a habit of showing up whenever popular wagons arise, as in the ++-- one yesterday, but I thought there were reasonable alternatives. The reasonable doubt starts to shrink when her reasons for voting Xayzeck are examined.

I've already explained that. I'm voting Xay instead of Pine because people don't seem to want to lynch Pine and I think that Xay may be his partner. What gave me that impression was Xay's switch to Pine at the end of Day one.

What popular wagons are you talking about? Only once on Day one and once on Day two have I joined the "popular" wagon, and the first was because he was my strongest scumread. That is not "a habit of showing up whenever popular wagons arise".

If we're not going to lynch Xay, then I'll go back to Pine.

[Huntress]

TTH is far scummier!

But seriously, I don't think this game is going to progress until we've got a flip.

@ Pine:

I see you never answered my question about your stand on Jingle and you've also ignored my 249.

[Huntress]

Jingle/++--/Pine

Yeah that's about it

Which is the conclusion I came to in 118.

I'm

really

not liking that ++-- and Pine are neither posting nor voting (well ++-- has just posted but still no vote). Dry-fit's not posting either but he has at least voted.

Jingle's "Bussing is stupid in this setup." comment is still bothering me. Because it's not true. If scum refuse to bus they're going to stick out like a sore thumb.

Actually I'm up for a switch to either ++-- or Pine as they have more chance of being scum than Xay. But I'm not moving my vote unless there is genuine interest in lynching either one.

[Huntress]

Why would voting/not voting matter though?

Because in this setup if scum doesn't bus then we need every townie voting unamimously to get a lynch, so if you're town we may not be able to get a lynch on scum without you.

Bussing =\= distancing.

And no, they wouldn't. You push one person to lynch. I would bet that scum have each other as secondary or tertiary scum reads.

I'm talking about bussing, not distancing. If we lynch scum we look at those not on the wagon, which means at least one scum has to be on the wagon otherwise they're out in the open. Bussing is good play for scum here. But then, so is abstaining as it just drags the game out and we end up with a compromise lynch, probably on town.


I can't make my mind up whether Xay or Jingle is scum, or both or even neither. So I'm going back to those I have decent scum reads on: Pine and ++--. Pine has been refusing to answer questions and has been posting in other games while avoiding this one.

Vote: Pine

@ ++--:

If you think Xay is town, then who on the the wagon do you think is scum and why aren't you voting them?

@ Pine:

If you think Xay is town, then who on the the wagon do you think is scum and why aren't you voting them?

[Huntress]

Dry-fit hasn't posted for six days and Pine for four.

Dry-fit is the reason I have a sneaking feeling that both Xay and Jingle may be town.

[Huntress]

You've driven away any confidence I had in that read.

[Huntress]

pfp
mathbro can eat rope too, but I didnt look too hard at him yet due to time management

Which player are you referring to here?

[Huntress]

I can see where TTH is coming from there, but it's the wrong conclusion. Pine and ++-- being scum doesn't depend on Xay's status. Or if it does then Xay must be scum.

It's the third one I'm not sure about though. Dry-fit's voting pattern seems to show that he only voted Pine when it was safe to do so then switched to Xay to get a lynch. Pk did the same. I'm leaning in that direction but if Xay is town then why didn't one of Pine and ++-- vote him when he was at L-1?

@ Xayzeck:

Jingle's not going to be lynched toDay. Can you switch to Pine please? Or ++-- is good too.

[Huntress]

Can you place a vote?

Any chance of you moving your vote back to Pine?

[Huntress]

Let's lynch Jingle.

I'd rather lynch ++-- if you don't want to lynch Viomi yet.

[Huntress]

I don't like #372 - why would she tell one of her supposed scumreads to switch votes in order to get someone lynched?

I was leaning towards Dry-fit being scum rather than Xay at that point. But I have no problem asking a scumread to vote another scumread, as I did in 388. Particularly in a situation that favours bussing of one partner for town cred.

[Huntress]

I really, really want to lynch ++-- now.

[Huntress]

HAPPY SCUMDAY HUNTRESS ALSO

Thanks!

[Huntress]

Still waiting for ++-- to commit himself to something.

[Huntress]

Hi PB!


@GM: Vote Viomi pretty please?

[Huntress]

My case is mainly on Pine rather than you, although a couple of your posts pinged me. The last line of 430 for one, and 517 looked like it was addressed to a partner. As for Pine, it was an accumulation of the things I've already mentioned in the thread.

[Huntress]

Why did the last post of 430 ping you? Do you know what an amish tell is?

The Amished tell is one of the more useful tells, but it's only really useful on someone that doesn't already know about it. That line pinged me because you went out of your way to say that you'd ISO'd your predecessor but weren't going to post about it because of the tell, when the natural thing to do would be to just say nothing. Reading between the lines it looks you found him scummy as if you hadn't then the tell wouldn't have applied anyway.

And what do you mean 517 looked like it was being addressed to a partner? And who would I be addressing as a partner, Xayzeck or ++--?

It was ++--. But I'll admit I might have been confbiased there.

Huntress: If you had a compulsive vig shot right now, who would die?

You. Viomi would be good too if we aren't lynching her. Third choice would be PK.

[Huntress]

Actually I didn't ISO him at all because I knew you guys would get on my ass for "amishing"

Apparently knowing about the amish tell is scummy now, too? In which case you are also guilty.

Knowing about it: Not scummy.
Raising it in the way you did: Scummy.

If you didn't actually ISO him how did you know you would find him scummy? Because if you didn't find him scummy you wouldn't have any need to worry about being accused of showing that tell. Which implies that you expected you would find him scummy.

[Huntress]

? Whether I would find him scummy or not is irrelevant, do you know what the Amished tell is? The amished tell says that if someone replaces into a game and looks at what their predecessor did at all, then they're scum. Whether or not I find my predecessor to have been acting scummy, the amished tell would say I'm scum. I'm tired of getting lynched for amished tells so I figured I'd just avoid it entirely because some people are dumb enough to actually believe the amished tell works.

Yes, I know what the Amished tell is, and it's not what you are claiming it to be. It refers to a player who criticises or apologises for his predecessor's play. Playstyle or previous knowledge of the tell can nullify it though.

[Huntress]

Vote: Prolapsed Brain

That's L-1.

Not sure which of the other three is town but I've a feeling it's Jingle.

[Huntress]

Explain please.

[Huntress]

The quickhammer was fine. I just didn't get what you meant by those quotes.

Thanks for modding it, Mala!

I'm guessing it's ++--, Jingle and Pine in the library with the candlestick.

I really must learn to trust my early reads.

[Huntress]

All four previous games still accessible used a majority lynch so you weren't doing anything different from those. Two of them just didn't have a deadline at first due to the nightless aspect although the last one added deadline and plurality lynch later.

Are the PT/QTs going to be made public?