New York 180 (Endgame)

[Klingoncelt]

VOTE: Shinobi

What Dragon said.

[Klingoncelt]

y u vot me

Because you have the most epic death scenes?

[Klingoncelt]

So you're killing me because me dying is cool? I thought I meant something to you.

I sad now.

Aww, now I feel bad.

UNVOTE:

[Klingoncelt]

V/LA until further notice, computer issues.

[Klingoncelt]

Ok. Let's generate discussion

@Everyone: what's the biggest flaw in your towngame? Your scumgame?

If I knew that I'd never get lynched.

Weird fact: I usually draw Scum when I have the flu.

[Klingoncelt]

Ok. Let's generate discussion

@Everyone: what's the biggest flaw in your towngame? Your scumgame?

Weird fact: I usually draw Scum when I have the flu.

.... Do you have the flu?

No.

The neighbor kid has an ear infection, strep throat, and bronchitis, so I'm really worried about upcoming games that I sign up for...

[Klingoncelt]

Weird fact: I usually draw Scum when I have the flu.

Is your V/LA actually secretly flu-related?

No it's really the computer. Mechanical, not viral.

SW's Town, btw. Totally her Town game.

[Klingoncelt]

KC, what would you say her scum game is?

Very

quiet. She'll talk your ear off as Town. It's like night & day.

[Klingoncelt]

Computer virus?

Anti-virus, actually. The program's not functioning right. Their help desk is open during my sleep period (I'm not a daywalker,) so getting it fixed could take a few evenings.

[Klingoncelt]

No, I don't see anything that I should be responding to in that post. No questions, no nothing. Am I missing something?

Aero, you know if Shinobi normally ignores content in posts like this?

He might.

[Klingoncelt]

Computer virus?

Anti-virus, actually. The program's not functioning right. Their help desk is open during my sleep period (I'm not a daywalker,) so getting it fixed could take a few evenings.

You're a vampire?

Shouldn't you and wolf be fighting then?

Meh, that's an old myth. Under the right circumstances we might fight over tasty victims, though...

[Klingoncelt]

If you shoot a Vampire with a silverwolf it dies

Oh that's right. I have Silver in my name. I have nothing to fear then.

That's an old myth too. It's lead and cheap jewelry that I need to watch out for.

[Klingoncelt]

If you shoot a Vampire with a silverwolf it dies

Oh that's right. I have Silver in my name. I have nothing to fear then.

That's an old myth too. It's lead and cheap jewelry that I need to watch out for.

and Tribbles

Yep, those too!

[Klingoncelt]

dragonspawn has played with me many times off-site as well as Klingon and House.

House has played with me many times onsite here as well.

House and Klingon both just got out of a game with me where I was scum and they were town.

Aero and Grib have not played with me off-site but onsite here in a few games.

Wake has played with me a couple times.

Anyhow, here's the game where I was scum and House and Klingon were town.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=60334

?
Are they over at US as well? Who are they? I didn't think there were so many of us over here.

Hi, FA, I'm Grandma.

[Klingoncelt]

@Silverwolf: What's fake about it?

I've never played with TSO before but his reads just did not seem genuine. ...

Didn't TSO play a game at USMB?

[Klingoncelt]

Happy Scumday, TSO!

[Klingoncelt]

Klingon and Kitz need to do something, anything because right now, not only are they not voting, but not saying much either. Kitz is better than Klingon for that meta post.

I'm V/LA till next Tuesday. I can skim through the game and make a few superficial posts, but getting deep into it is impossible for the next few days.

[Klingoncelt]

holy cow, I leave for a day and 5 new pages explode. Will take a look and post after work tomorrow, I'm sure several more pages will be up by then.

Thank you, Cap'n Obvious.

I think I have my first solid scumread...

[Klingoncelt]

holy cow, I leave for a day and 5 new pages explode. Will take a look and post after work tomorrow, I'm sure several more pages will be up by then.

Thank you, Cap'n Obvious.

I think I have my first solid scumread...

Explain why your read of vikingfan is solid, and please use more than that one post in your response.

3 fluffposts, the first is RVS, and in the second he wants to PL TSO for lurking.

[Klingoncelt]

I agree with Klingon's 354. Klingon-do you find this vote worthy? I do.

His first RVS vote defending Wake was shady, then he joins the leading Wagon at the first opportunity, then remarks about how many posts there are which is basically his way of stating something while saying nothing.

Oh duh, I forgot to vote!

VOTE: Vikingfan

[Klingoncelt]

I also find Klingon's post suspicious, for the lack of vote. If it's a Solid Scumread, isn't it worth a vote?

I think I have my first solid scumread...

3 fluffposts, the first is RVS, and in the second he wants to PL TSO for lurking.

This may be playstyle-related.

@Klingon: Would you say you are liberal, conservative, or somewhere in between with throwing out votes?

I'm one of the notorious USMB Liberals. I never miss an election. I simply brain farted and forgot to vote for Viking.

[Klingoncelt]

It seems like every time vikingfan gets a vote, someone else comes along and throws down a vote for dragonspawn.

They should stop doing that. Poor guy always gets read as scum and lynched early.

[Klingoncelt]

Could you like a game where that happened?

I think she's talking about offsite, we tend to lynch him early.

So is this common behavior for him, then?

I've never played with this guy before, but there's a few reasons I think he's worse than VikingFan right now. For one, look at this post:

I suppose that's possible, I found more meaning in the content of his post than the subject of it.

you are being way too friendly this game house.

fos

Looks like the Viking wagon id picking up. As he is one of my gut scum reads at the moment in going to jump on and see if more pressure will shake something free from him.

VOTE: viking

This is NOT a good jump. He joins the growing wagon because 1. "It's picking up", and 2. It just so happens to be one his gut-scumreads all of a sudden. That pings for me.

The thing that's more bothersome to me is him defending himself once his wagon forms; it simply sounds like someone trying

very hard

to be calm and collected, to keep making jokes under pressure, etc. It doesn't seem like a natural progression to me, just that he's inserting things all over to make him look less nervious. It's fabricated.

And, to be honest, I'm not exactly townreading Viking. However, I feel like some of the reasons being used on his wagon could be applied to a lot of players in the game. I'd be willing to look at him Day 2, though, and you can hold me to that if you like. I won't be voting him today, though.

I also have this slight paranoia about the first real wagon formed in a game this large; I feel like it's almost always scum motivated. That's more my own paranoia, though.

Dragon's playstyle is very typical for him, at least the way he plays offsite.

It doesn't point to him being either scum or town. His town and scum games are very similar, he usually reads as leaning scum, even as a town PR.

[Klingoncelt]

Could you like a game where that happened?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/us ... -zone.139/
The games are listed as "Official USMB Mafia Game X" and he was in almost all of them as Avatar.

I am not sure it would really help. What happened is that dragon rolled scum in his first game and then won. As the player base consists of the same players virtually every game, that tainted him for the remaining 7 and he was lynched early virtually every time.

I would add that he has gotten a LOT more defensive at USMB because of this - I think that he is tired of being led to the gallows early. I still have a hard time reading him though but I have never played in a game with him where he was scum.

He was Scum in the Fire and Ice game, Fire Godfather.

[Klingoncelt]

I'm one of the notorious USMB Liberals. I never miss an election. I simply brain farted and forgot to vote for Viking.

Your liberal tendencies aside :b, what is your opinion of House?

I don't know yet. I'm waiting for a ragepost.

[Klingoncelt]

@Klingon didn't see that post the first time. Does it make sense to read meta from other sites since the meta is very different there from here?

It's not so different. I can town/scumread House and SilverWolf based 100% on their behavior there.

btw -

Shinobi

- Happy Scumday!!

[Klingoncelt]

I'm one of the notorious USMB Liberals. I never miss an election. I simply brain farted and forgot to vote for Viking.

Your liberal tendencies aside :b, what is your opinion of House?

I don't know yet. I'm waiting for a ragepost.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T KNOW YET?!?!

HOW DARE YOU! YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO READ ME BY NOW!

(Is that better?)

meh

[Klingoncelt]

@Klingon didn't see that post the first time. Does it make sense to read meta from other sites since the meta is very different there from here?

It's not so different. I can town/scumread House and SilverWolf based 100% on their behavior there.

btw -

Shinobi]/b] - Happy Scumday!!

What do you think of Silver / House at this time?

They should be a hydra someday, I think.

Also, Wolf is Town.

[Klingoncelt]

@Klingon didn't see that post the first time. Does it make sense to read meta from other sites since the meta is very different there from here?

You didn't ask me but I disagree with her statement that she says it is not different. The dynamic over there is completely different - a LOT more 'bitchyness' arguing and in general useless BS. Here is a lot more focused. In general, I think that meta over at USMB is of a very limited use.

Sometimes it bugs me that we have to play nice here. Yeah, that part's different, but in general the meta is the same.

[Klingoncelt]

Good luck to all in the storms, stay safe!

[Klingoncelt]

Viking,
Dragonspawn, FA_Q2, House, SilverWolf, T S O, Wake88, and I all played together on another site. We know each other fairly well.

There's no buddying going on at all between any of us, that term is becoming overused in a creepy, overly-paranoid way on this site of late.

[Klingoncelt]

Catching up now! Yay.

Summarize anything important I should know, otherwise I'll vote and fail to give adequate reads because too many players.

It's hard to sort through 21 players on Day1. Do a quick ISO on each of us, then focus on the 3 scummiest-looking.

[Klingoncelt]

klingon has a bunch of posts but not much substance. Notes that Wolf is town. Not sure if his fluff is because of his admitted computer problems or something else. are your computer problems gone now?

I'll be back from V/LA Tuesday night or Wednesday morning.

[Klingoncelt]

I guess the other thing for town to do is to narrow down 3-5 people for vikingfan to check and he choose from those? 3-5 so that scum don't know for sure.

The cop makes his/her own choice on who to investigate, however requests are often made by other players. For example: Viking, could you please investigate SilverWolf so we can check your sanity?

[Klingoncelt]

Dragon stays alive today. For the children.

[Klingoncelt]

It's a normal game.

Normal games

can include

1-2 non-normal roles.

Isn't Ika the mod?

[Klingoncelt]

Oooooh shit~

...

That makes me L5?
I'm unaffected to this pressure. In fact, the voting is so fast that it's unrealistic and unreasonable.
One of these voters are definitely scum.

However, to make things a bit interesting, I have a confession. Was gonna post this regardlessly anyway.
I actually didn't know what roles are available. The only role I knew was my own, and I was all blind. I tried to look around this thread to see what roles are available, since I'm used to my own site meta that roles available are on the same thread - OP 1st Post. That made me overly neutral and would only open up later when I actually had an idea of stuff.
Thanks to the discussion of Wolf and House tho, I know what roles are around.

So wtf. So very wtf.

VOTE: Kitz

[Klingoncelt]

Kitz, are you an alt?

Aeronaut, from what I can tell Kitz only has two or so games on this site so unless she's an alt, she is a newbie and some of her questions were the same kinds that I had. I can think of townie mindsets for what she's thinking. Wondering about the setup is a real thing, the only reason I haven't asked more questions is because of fearing of giving too much away.

I get that Rampage's little Russian Roulette game may glean some dividends but I haven't seen it work yet. I've also never been in a game (in my probably short history) where scum died from a day one lynch. Do people have stats on it (ABR's success rate of scum lynches)

I'd rather see people go after a strong player and see what happens or reactions from that. Therefore, my vote on House. Maybe I'll switch to Wake or one of the other Boss type Pokemon.

And yes if I had to choose, I would choose to lynch a lurker most times because from my brief experience they become a thorn in the side. Also usually newb scum heavy lurks.

I don't like your last line, "cool wagon," doesn't equal "wagon on scum."

Isn't it a bit much for a -game noob to jump into a Large? She knows no one, she doesn't even know all the roles.

That is, assuming that she's both Town and

not

an alt.

If she is NoobTown, how much help can she give us as the game progresses?

It all smells a bit fishy to me.

[Klingoncelt]

*2-game noob*

[Klingoncelt]

Jared, Acryon, sorry to see you both go.

[Klingoncelt]

Should we lynch their slots?

[Klingoncelt]

Should we lynch their slots?

Whoa wtf?

How does this come from town?

I always do that unless they're some kind of Extreme Obvious Town 4Evah. It saves the mod having to replace.

I wasn't getting superstrong townie vibes off either of them.

[Klingoncelt]

Isn't it a bit much for a -game noob to jump into a Large? She knows no one, she doesn't even know all the roles.

That is, assuming that she's both Town and

not

an alt.

If she is NoobTown, how much help can she give us as the game progresses?

It all smells a bit fishy to me.

"If she is NoobTown, how much help can she give us as the game progresses?"

So, you want to lynch a noob town Kitz for this reason? I'm trying to figure out where this is coming from or why it would make sense to state this.

Vote: klingoncelt

Day1 lynches are usually a shot in the dark. Day1 lynches usually end up being a Townie - by usually I mean nearly always. If someone has to be lynched and we can't find True Scum Almighty, then going with a weak link isn't a horrifically bad idea.

[Klingoncelt]

KItz has bad pushes and a weak ISO, if that's where town wants to go, that's fine but 976 pinged my scumdar so hard, the neighbors were wondering where that noise was coming from.

Seriously, "let's lynch three spots because they aren't here to defend themselves" is ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww....................................scummy as shit.

VOTE: klingoncelt

No it isn't. You know me better than this, I'm always up for a D1 PL.

[Klingoncelt]

Should we lynch their slots?

What?? Was there something crummy about either?

Was there anything Towny about either?

[Klingoncelt]

Should we lynch their slots?

One of the scummiest thing I have ever seen. WTH.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Elusive can wait till tomorrow.

You need to play more then. Pretty sure I made similar D1 posts over at the Twaff. Go read.

[Klingoncelt]

So you think klingoncelt is town? Can someone describe her town vs scum meta? From what I can tell she's not a newbie. Dragon has defenders but I do not get his selective reading of the thread.

FA, your tone is so arrogant, are you scum and prepping me for a nk?
If not, bring it now. I answered your question, do you have any more or is that the extent of your hunting?
Do you have any scum reads beyond the low hanging fruit?

Klingoncelt, hey there.

My meta's very hard to read. I play by stream of consciousness and it's heavily influenced by meatworld. Twice when I was Scum I was sick and wrecked on Nyquil. The first game was a mess, the second one was at this site and I was passed out most of Day 1 so House and Wolf vig killed me - for lurking. Lurking. You know, not posting much.


But they want to lynch me for my willingness to vote 3 flakes. Hmm...

[Klingoncelt]

Klingon

Isn't it a bit much for a -game noob to jump into a Large? She knows no one, she doesn't even know all the roles.

That is, assuming that she's both Town and not an alt.

If she is NoobTown, how much help can she give us as the game progresses?

It all smells a bit fishy to me.

Should we lynch their slots?

. What are you saying here? You want to lynch her because she's 'too new'?
. What would any of their flips tell us?
. Does your play usually look as barren and one-linered as this game?

Does your play usually look as barren and one-linered as this game?

It depends. As you should remember, I was V/LA for several days. That means I couldn't devote lots of time to the game.

I NEVER post walls.

I don't often post paragraphs, but it has been know to happen.

What are you saying here? You want to lynch her because she's 'too new'?

I hate lynching noobs, I really do, but the question was realistic - how much help can she give us? It's not that she's being considered because she's new, but because, even though it's accidental, her newbness makes her somewhat anti-town.

What would any of their flips tell us?

Hopefully that they were lurking scum.

[Klingoncelt]

Should I claim now?

I'm a Citizen.

[Klingoncelt]

Here's an offsite Scum game that I'm quite proud of. The entire game is only 3 pages long. That's how good I am as Not Passed Out On Cough Syrup Scum.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthrea ... tandoff-IV

[Klingoncelt]

Please guys stop claiming without pressure

Meh, I claim a lot on D1.


Meta.

[Klingoncelt]

I'm really getting weirded out by everybody claiming after a couple votes land on them.

I have to wonder if it isn't some kind of scum tactic to get us to disbelieve later claims due to the sheer number out there.

If people want to claim so much, we should do one of two things... either

1) Start lynching those who claim under these oddball circumstances, or
2) Just mass claim and get it over with so we can move the hell on and hunt scum.

I have more than a couple on me. Funny how fast that wagon got to rolling, not unlike Kitz's. Some very opportunistic players here, for sure.

[Klingoncelt]

On the Kitz wagon, I'm interested in why

Grib and House

voted for her.

Shinobi

, why did you vote for acryon?

Aeronaut, TSO, and FA_Q2

, why vote for me?

[Klingoncelt]

Your game is off, House. You're nitpicky and boring.

[Klingoncelt]

Read my other games. Day1 claiming isn't unusual for me. Learn to live with it.

[Klingoncelt]

So why Kitz, boringHouse?

[Klingoncelt]

So why Kitz, boringHouse?

Why should I bother humoring questions from someone who is intent on insulting me?

I've been having a real problem sorting out Scum in this game. The level of confusion for me is identical to that game where Wolf and MathBlade were Scum. I didn't want to believe they were Scum, so my judgement got clouded.

Dragonspawn, well we know his history, no lynching him before Day2. SilverWolf, Boonskiies, Wake88, their Town/Scum games are easy enough to tell apart. Boon and Wake need to post more.

FA_Q2, T S O, and Shinobi are hard cases for me. I always have a hard time figuring out what side they're on. Maybe one of them is scum.

House, now House is an easy one. Anyone will tell you he's got his Town game and then there's his Scum game. What I'm seeing here is Town Game Light. I've never known him to tell an established player how to play before. I've never known him to be so oddly nitpicky and boring before. And there's no fireaids rageposting.

Dood. I thinks you haz scumz.

VOTE: House

[Klingoncelt]

Read my other games. Day1 claiming isn't unusual for me. Learn to live with it.

No, You should learn to stop doing it. Claiming early when you are several votes away from a lynch and then saying well, I always do this so deal with it is extremely anti-town.

It's extremely anti-town to call for PL's on people who can't claim or defend themselves and won't be able to give us any info. after they are lynched if not outright scummy and you once again say it's meta so we should excuse it.

Why did you vote for Kitz again? Because she's new and can't help us much or is that what you were saying about elusive? I got that confused I think in your posting.

Not ignoring you.

With no vote count I wasn't sure how many votes were on me. As for claiming actions being Town/AntiTown, you really need to tear yourself away from the Wiki. What's cool to do now will be a scumtell deluxe over time, and vice versa.

I explained the offer to vote off the replace-outs. Don't like the explanation? Fine. Don't vote off any of the replace-outs.

Kitz and Elusive both are hindrances. Don't get me wrong I think they're lovely people and I think they mean well, but I'm not sure of their scumhunting skills. (Then again, maybe they're just playing us.)

[Klingoncelt]

Boon, post more pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease.

Hi, Nobody Special!

[Klingoncelt]

So why Kitz, boringHouse?

Why should I bother humoring questions from someone who is intent on insulting me?

I've been having a real problem sorting out Scum in this game. The level of confusion for me is identical to that game where Wolf and MathBlade were Scum. I didn't want to believe they were Scum, so my judgement got clouded.

Dragonspawn, well we know his history, no lynching him before Day2. SilverWolf, Boonskiies, Wake88, their Town/Scum games are easy enough to tell apart. Boon and Wake need to post more.

FA_Q2, T S O, and Shinobi are hard cases for me. I always have a hard time figuring out what side they're on. Maybe one of them is scum.

House, now House is an easy one. Anyone will tell you he's got his Town game and then there's his Scum game. What I'm seeing here is Town Game Light. I've never known him to tell an established player how to play before. I've never known him to be so oddly nitpicky and boring before. And there's no fireaids rageposting.

Dood. I thinks you haz scumz.

VOTE: House

Then you better meta me harder Grannie, because this is nothing new for me.

*sigh*

Maybe it's just that I'm used to everyone's psycho playstyle at USMB. I'm reading the game going on over there, it's full of rage and aggro. I'm surprised no one's had a heart attack yet.

[Klingoncelt]

I'm not talking about anything other than what a casual observer can see.

I read lots of ongoing games here, btw. Good way to get to know people.

[Klingoncelt]

I'm not a total newbie, but I have absolute no idea about the meta of this site.
Realistically, I cannot offer any help until I actually have something I can use. Clues or whatever.

It's pretty unrealistic to learn the Meta of 20 different players who are all different, spread across different games, and some who have multiple styles for both Scum and Town, as well some who are using their own Meta as an advantage when they have other intentions.
Targeting what I think is scummy behavior, but it's actually their normal behavior, everyone will get OCD and target me for not knowing their playstyle.

Give me a break. This means that I have to not focus on this game and I hate Meta overall. This in itself is disadvantagous : I'm forced to "be safe", I have absolutely no idea what I can do to be of help without being snarked back in return, and overall I'm just going to wait for the next day so things actually happen. A day with absolutely nothing can tell absolutely nothing outside of player's behavior, which is a mess when it's all Meta.
Why can't I call out on someone for doing mass one-liners, mass sheeping, bad sheepherding,et cetera?

I assume this is the true reason I'm actually being voted on. Truth to be, I already anticipated this and was planning to write a post about that I'm a newbie, a somewhat introduction to these 20 players, as well pointing out noob things. Too bad the votes happened super-super fast, making it look all inappropriate.

---

That said, I refuse to claim roles. There's too many shitty role claims already which I think most are just there to be a "red herring".
To make this post a bit more useful than being just a calling-out rant, I'm going to say who I'm currently having reads as.
Scum : NakedJogger, Aeronaut, Boonskiies, Grib, ABR.
Town : Elusive, Silverwolf, Shinobi, T S O.
All Else : Half-scum/half-town, neutral or whatever.

If I feel for it, I can get a list of their posts what I disagree with. The problem? You're probably going to nitpick things with Meta, I'm in general bad at pushing, and I dare say that other players who find these scummy stuff can be more "trusted" due to not being a newbie which lowers my motivation to do so. I'm a bit annoyed that some things I pointed out are completely ignored.

More at 10 on DramaTv.

Not a bad post.

[Klingoncelt]

Actually I was thinking of that too (re voting NJ).

TBH, I haven't played a game with ABR from start to finish but it seems like he's known for being good at certain town things by other people. I'd rather kill a few people before him. It also seems like he gets NKed a lot night one? Is that true of people who have played with him?

Klingoncelt, based on the fact that so far I've never played a game where scum was lynched day one and also your sentiments - how do you feel about no lynch? Or lynching someone like cheetory?

I'm not a fan of either, depending on the game.

I'm having a ton of problems with this game, such a high number of replace-outs creates confusion and stalls reads.

I'm ISOing players and trying to get some kind of grip on them, but I'm not having much luck. Even by Day1 standards, my reads list has way too many nulls. I'll re-read Cheetory tonight. @Cheetory - don't replace out for the next couple of hours, okay?

[Klingoncelt]

Strictly speaking, off policy, lynching klingon has some positives:

A, it's only a townie. We don't risk losing a power role on day 1.
B, if we move on to someone else, we risk outing more powerful roles (I do NOT want to out any protective roles or other town PRs at this point)
C, we probably have something like a third of the game being scum so obviously not every claim is going to be true. Strictly mathematically then, we have a 1/3 chance of hitting scum and that's going purely randomly. Add in comments like lynching 3 slots and it is definitely not a random lynch, ergo, the chances of hitting scum go up.

What am I missing here?

That it's not cool to lynch a Townie. We have a few hours until deadline to find some scum.

I am sure House's slot is Scum. However, since there's a general consensus about not voting slots:

UNVOTE:

[Klingoncelt]

Why would he say "Good luck town" that seems a little excessive or is that a scum House thing to do?

It's either 100% genuine or he's trying to make his slot look townish. I've seen it done by a number of players, scum and town.

[Klingoncelt]

That it's not cool to lynch a Townie. We have a few hours until deadline to find some scum.

I am sure House's slot is Scum. However, since there's a general consensus about not voting slots:

UNVOTE:

There is no 'consensus' about not lynching scummy slots. There is one about not randomly lynching them simply because they are replacing out. If house was a scum read before then there is not reason to change that until his replacement moves the read.

Your last scum post was more like lets lynch these guys because they replaced out even though I don't have a single thing to identify them as scum.

This post reads more like making useless excuses.

You interpret things with a knee-jerk.

In the first place, there's only one lynch per Day, so all the replace-outs couldn't possibly all get lynched right away.

Second, I was asking a question, as opposed to OMG LET'S LYNCH THESE SLOTS NOW SHEEP ME YOU MUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just wanted to see how others felt. Of course I wouldn't want to lynch a slot that most were reading as Town, but if one of them were looking pretty scummy...

And there

was

shit hitting the fan over my question, enough that I will withdraw any votes I have on a replace-out.

FA, I don't do useless excuses. You know that.

[Klingoncelt]

Actually I was thinking of that too (re voting NJ).

TBH, I haven't played a game with ABR from start to finish but it seems like he's known for being good at certain town things by other people. I'd rather kill a few people before him. It also seems like he gets NKed a lot night one? Is that true of people who have played with him?

Klingoncelt, based on the fact that so far I've never played a game where scum was lynched day one and also your sentiments - how do you feel about no lynch? Or lynching someone like cheetory?

I'm not a fan of either, depending on the game.

I'm having a ton of problems with this game, such a high number of replace-outs creates confusion and stalls reads.

I'm ISOing players and trying to get some kind of grip on them, but I'm not having much luck. Even by Day1 standards, my reads list has way too many nulls. I'll re-read Cheetory tonight. @Cheetory - don't replace out for the next couple of hours, okay?

Okay, I ISO'd Cheetory, and I have him at leaning Town. Funny thing, while I was going over his ISO, I noticed some scumminess coming from FA, some meaning lots.

He's being very conservative this game with his own play, but he's pretty accusatory when another player makes a questionable post. It's like going from vanilla pudding to horseradish. He doesn't want his own play to stand out, he does want others' play called into question. FoS FA_Q2.

[Klingoncelt]

Does a person deserve to die over a single post?

I think it really depends on the post. However in this case, that first post on it's own isn't enough to vote for her, it's her trying to justify it as any sort of relevant scum hunting. If people had gone along with that, it would be a little-to-no information lynch, which works out great for scum.

@KlingonCelt;

What was your reasoning for Kitz when you joined that wagon?

Her play was ... strange all along, it was this post that finally did it for me:

"In post 925, Kitz wrote:Oooooh shit~
...

That makes me L5?
I'm unaffected to this pressure. In fact, the voting is so fast that it's unrealistic and unreasonable.
One of these voters are definitely scum.

However, to make things a bit interesting, I have a confession. Was gonna post this regardlessly anyway.
I actually didn't know what roles are available. The only role I knew was my own, and I was all blind. I tried to look around this thread to see what roles are available, since I'm used to my own site meta that roles available are on the same thread - OP 1st Post. That made me overly neutral and would only open up later when I actually had an idea of stuff.
Thanks to the discussion of Wolf and House tho, I know what roles are around."

It was so wtf.

[Klingoncelt]

Okay, I ISO'd Cheetory, and I have him at leaning Town.

Why?

He's asking questions and trying to get players involved.

[Klingoncelt]

So she doesn't get lynched?

At last count I was L-6.

Klingoncelt: Aeronaut, TSO, SilverWolf, FA_Q2, vikingfan [L-6]

Who is the scum on my wagon? Not WS.

Definitely scum somewhere in Aeronaut, TSO, FA_Q2, vikingfan.

[Klingoncelt]

Ok, so that's pretty good reasoning. So, why move off that solid read and instead try to lynch three empty lurker slots?

I didn't vote for any of the empty slots. I asked the others if they wanted to do it.

At that time I had no superstrong scum reads on anyone. Even the one on Kitz was basically over a confusing playstyle.

I mean, I could vote for Pisscop, claiming that he's scum because once he moved his vote off TSO he jumped on every wagon that rolled by.

(Actually I do have him and TSO at leaning scum, along with FA_Q2 and the House slot.)

[Klingoncelt]

So you're trying to get us to vote for the empty slots, but you wont vote for them yourself?

I was wondering how everyone felt about it. Don't be so derpy.

[Klingoncelt]

... meh-my whole case on her is weak ...

Damn right it is. I'm Town.

[Klingoncelt]

So you're trying to get us to vote for the empty slots, but you wont vote for them yourself?

I was wondering how everyone felt about it. Don't be so derpy.

Yea, that's what makes it so scummy.

Instead of taking a solid stance on it, you felt to need to see if everyone was going to agree with you, which is so fucking terrible. If you were town, you wouldn't be afraid to have a different opinion, but here,

you're actively trying to fit in.

Scum.

Can. We. Please. Lynch. This.

Aeronaut has no clue. Town, ignore him.

[Klingoncelt]

Oh - I'm known for not caring whether I fit in or not. Mean Girl meta there.

[Klingoncelt]

Also why do you put it out there you'd vote pisskop? Why don't you actually do it? Is it because you don't want to have to back up your read on him by yourself?

I don't have reads on everyone yet. Pisscop is one that I do see as Scum. I'm also scumreading Wake88, FA_Q2, and you.

Ooooh - I know - HEY TOWN - Rate the Towniest/Scummiest among these 4 :

Pisscop
Wake88
FA_Q2
TSO

Results will determine my votepark.

[Klingoncelt]

So you're trying to get us to vote for the empty slots, but you wont vote for them yourself?

I was wondering how everyone felt about it. Don't be so derpy.

I will not at all be surprised when you flip scum.

VOTE: Klingoncelt

Then you'll be mindblown, because I'm Town.

[Klingoncelt]

Hey, Klingcelt, does your butt hurt?

You know, from that fence you keep sitting on

Ask the other USMBers that one. Hopefully they'll set you straight. Or I could.

I don't like voting unless I'm pretty sure.

There is one thing that I'm 100% sure of - if I get lynched today, Town will lose the game. Guaranteed.

[Klingoncelt]

Would someone please post a case on Klingoncelt for those of us who just replaced in?

There is none. They think I'm scum based on outdated "tells" they read about on the Wiki.

[Klingoncelt]

=

I mean, I could vote for Pisscop, claiming that he's scum because once he moved his vote off TSO he jumped on every wagon that rolled by.

This is hardly accurate. My voting record is TSO, Dragon, kitz, and Elusive; you match my record for voting.
This is a poor justification for a sudden scumread.

Just using that possibility as an example of how dumb much of the thinking is in this game.

I think everyone should have a 55-gallon drum full of coffee before voting again.

[Klingoncelt]

Silverwolf is at USMB, and she's voting for you, soooooooooo...............

SilverWolf's reads on me are often incorrect. Like now.

[Klingoncelt]

Oh goodie, another softclaim.

Fuck that noise.

No softclaim. I'm not claiming any role, just that I'm Town.

What I'm saying is that the "tools" some people are using for scumhunting are outdated, obsolete. They may as well use an abacus to figure out the playerlist.

And they're helping Scum by hardcore derping.

I know FA's nightkill pattern. I don't know TSO's. Wake could have R/L issues forcing him to lurk. I doubt it, but Pisscop could be the cop. So

VOTE: FA_Q2

[Klingoncelt]

UNVOTE:

I meant to say

VOTE: TSO

[Klingoncelt]

I think Klingon's town & mislynch bait. Forgets she claimed VT. Says pisskop is cop. Votes TSO over easier NJ wagon. Voting her reads before trying to survive. Looks like forgetful or distracted town.

Did I claim VT? I did forget then.

And I am distracted. R/L is particularly insane right now. Pulling miracles out of my ass every couple of days is tiring.

[Klingoncelt]

How the heck do you forget that you've already claimed? That makes me think it's not a genuine claim at all. THe claim that RL is a huge distraction seems to be a massive cover.

Sooo... you went through the trouble of looking up that previous post where I claimed, but didn't read or take into account where I said I had some major R/L distractions going on.

If you're so sure I'm Scum, why not check me tonight? I dare you.

[Klingoncelt]

Check me, then. (She also seems to have forgotten that you claimed cop.)

"Claiming" and

actually being

are two different things. I don't believe the claim.

[Klingoncelt]

But realtalk every other wagon bar Klingoncelt is utter shit - get on Klingon pls.

Sh'up.

[Klingoncelt]

That's the thing, Klingon is the best vote for today. Her comment that town is 100% gurantee'd to lose if she's lynched is not sitting right with me at all. I've said similar things as scum. I also feel like we are very close to a NL and starting a wagon on anyone else is pointless and a NL on D1 is a bad idea. I also feel like she's already claimed and I don't want to bring someone new within claiming range with all the claiming bullcrap already taking place. Plus, I've already laid out a case that Klingon arrogantly dismissed as playing from an outdated wiki which is crap also.

I have failed to see anyone make a really good case on NJ scum. I do see the aggro play and all the vote switching. I would vote there to avoid a NL as a compromise but I really haven't sorted NJ. Beginning play seemed town, later play less so but I'm not sure if it's scum or playstyle to get reactions.

No, Wolfie, I promise that Town will lose if I'm lynched. Why? Because Town is playing an extraordinarily shit game. The Scums are having the game handed to them on a silver platter.

[Klingoncelt]

So ABR claimed Tracker and Pisskop claimed Cop?

Why do people do this so early in Large games?

Nope, vikingfan claimed cop. Pisskop did not.

Damn. My mistake.

Carry on.

[Klingoncelt]

@Klingon

, why are you voting for someone who clearly isn't going to be lynched this cycle? Also, can you give me your general read on NakedJogger? I can't find anything in your ISO which takes any kind of stance on him or his wagon.
I keep seeing things in your ISO that make me think you're abrasive town vs flailing scum, but the manner in which you're playing endcycle here feels like you might be trying to avoid anyone making useful associative tells upon flip. Why not pick one of the four people from your list, make a case and try to hardpush them? What's the motivation there, walk me through it.

I vote for those that I think are Scum. Hopefully Town won't go full amnesia and forget the next Day.

I don't know what to think of NakedJogger. Null.

I'm dealing with massive R/L distractions right now.

P-Edit: I was actually wondering where Wake's been. Makes me wary that you're being so quiet again man q.q Can you take a look at NakedJogger and Klingon in particular if you get time?

[Klingoncelt]

So ABR claimed Tracker and Pisskop claimed Cop?

Why do people do this so early in Large games?

I thought you were supposed to be watching us and figuring things out. Are you telling me you haven't?

What about the questions I asked you?

@Klingon you aren't helping your case right now. And I'm starting to think I should vote for you just because we will get useful info out. Not to mention I am skeptical of people saying "if I'm lynched town will lose"

Play hard, Avi. For the children.

Wolf should be the next lynch. She knows me well, her push is straight up scum.

[Klingoncelt]

However, this leads me into Fluffy Questions for Town (Scum Plz Do Not Answer So We Know Who U R, xo)
1. Which do you like being more? Town or scum?
2. What is your favoritest color for flowers?
3. Are you scum?
4. If you could turn into an animal, what would it be?
5. What are your favorite scum hunting strategies and how do they work?

Oh and bonus question for like the Truly Amazing:

Who is the most dangerous player (for either alignment) in this game's player list and why?

1. SK - Flamethrowing Mass Murderer

2. I don't do favorie colors

3. You're about to find out.

4. Cat

5. Get inside their heads.



For tomorrow:

FA might be Scum. Kitz is probably Town

[Klingoncelt]

Wolf should be the next lynch. She knows me well, her push is straight up scum.

Really? :/
Is this a scumclaim or are you being serious?

I'm Town. I think Wolf is Scum. FA too. I'm no longer so sure about TSO.

[Klingoncelt]

There is one thing that I'm 100% sure of - if I get lynched today, Town will lose the game. Guaranteed.

I don't like this arrogance. Like yeah, every townie is vital to our success, because our goal is basically to survive, but one mislynch won't put us in the coffin.

I also don't like that Klingon refers to everyone as "town", as if they were separated entities from herself:

"Town will lose the game."

In 1444 and in 1446 she also referred to the "town" as a separate entity like, "HEY TOWN" and "Town, ignore him." But I'm pretty sure that's just my petty obsession with semantics.

You're right, it is. What am I supposed to say? "Everyone in Town that isn't me?" "The rest of you guys?" "Those that aren't Scum?"

[Klingoncelt]

2) In general I don't like being mislynched. I also don't like mislynching others, and having that guilt. It's also unsavory if the one getting mislynched takes it the wrong way and behaves like a douchnozzle and takes it personally even after the game ends. I've experienced that.

No Rosie bus here.

[Klingoncelt]

I'm sorry, Klingoncelt. It sucks. I hope to play a game with you at some point.

SilverWolf is being universally town read almost, why do you FOS her?

Because her walls of analysis have stopped. I'm no longer seeing her towngame.

And thanks, I'm sure we'll play again.


I hope Ika set up a Dead Zone this time.

[Klingoncelt]

I'm around.

I think I'd prefer NJ but I can lynch Klingon if need be.

[Klingoncelt]

VOTE: Klingon

Lights out bitchees.

This is scummy as fuck.

If I die lynch this followed by VF please.

^ ^ ^ This

[Klingoncelt]

Good game, Scums.

[Klingoncelt]

So am I the only one that correctly guessed Cheetory as Scum? I wish I would have had the chance to pursue that.

[Klingoncelt]

Silver, GC, piss, Aero, Oz & I will just be sitting here on the mountain of salt, lording over it.

LOL

[Klingoncelt]

@ Ika - How long to you exp0ect that "ongoing game" to last?"

I'd like to see the Scumthread too. Or did I say that already?

[Klingoncelt]

Stop asking about the ongoing game mentioned in the scum pt.

Apologies.